Consultant Scene is Bleak Indeed
philotsopher
somebody with the typical ridiculous list of skills required. They also want
to pay somebody low. I asked the recruiter how long this company is willing
to wait to find somebody. He told me that companies know that there are
plenty of unemployed software people so they can be very choosey.
He also told me that things are at a dead standstill in California and
Arizona. He said the only place that is hiring IT people is Albertson's
grocery stores corporate in Idaho. He assured me that he would call in
several weeks if he comes across any jobs. Of course ... if I was willing to
move to Idaho.....
He sounded like he was really struggling. If they can't get people hired,
they get fired.
So let's review why we need to import more H-1Bs:
LOW WAGES
INDENTURED SERVITUDE
--------
philotsopher
Reid Roman
The sky IS falling here...
I am thinking about changing proffessions entirely!
--
Reid Roman
Future Generation Software
http://www.futuregenerationsoftware.com
"philotsopher" <philot...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:mBzr6.1831$VV4.4...@news.uswest.net...
Kev.-
Oracle DBA / data modeler, VB, C++ and Java. I said sounds good what
is the rate?
HE said well they are looking to pay $40 hour. I said that is
extremely low and I doubt you will find anyone at that price.
HE then asked me if I knew anyone that would be interested and I
replied, What I think I might. He said who?
I said you should try an H1.
The phone went silent for about a minute and he just sighed. As far
as I am concerned they have brought this on themselves. They are now
saying that they cant find qualified people but I had to remind him
that isn't that what the H1 program was for? And I also ha d to
remind him how they keep increasing the caps as there is not enough
qualified individuals. I think they mean there is not enough
qualified H1s at the price they want to pay H1s.
Sonner or later the H1s will be up to speed and as soon as that does
happen IT is history as we have know it. The only advice is start
looking for a new carrer. I dont know what to do yet but as soon as I
figure it out I will probably be leaving IT. Believe me when I say
this, I dont want to but what choice do we really have?
Kev.-
Tim Holt
agencies are either closing their doors or merging. Many headhunters get
hurt with this H1 thing, because companies go to body shops for consultants
and eliminate the recruiter, or the agency is a third or fourth party in the
deal and they wind up with peanuts. The early 90's were bad, but at least
the rate's stayed the same. Now there are fewer jobs for consultants and
the rates are plummeting!
"philotsopher" <philot...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:mBzr6.1831$VV4.4...@news.uswest.net...
Tim Holt
voice mail to absolutely nothing, zero, zilch, nada at this point. I don't
even bother to check it anymore. I'm in the NYC metro area and the stock
market tanking doesn't help matters either. I've always noticed that when
the market climbs, so does the number of calls I get.
What's really killing me is that I can't even frigg-n day trade to make some
extra cash and pass the time away, because the market is so bad and
unpredictable.
"Kev.-" <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3aaecbfb...@ns1.nothingbutnet.net...
Arthur Sowers
FWIW...
I'm not a programmer or computerist (I'm primarily on sci.research.careers
only), but when I start hearing stories about low quality computer
employees getting into jobs and then start thinking about how many jobs
will have more bugs, how many sys admins won't be able to keep their
systems up, etc., it makes me think network & internet downtime
(incl. from hackers) might increase and have serious effects on the
economy, communications, etc.
Arthur E. Sowers, PhD
-----------------------------------------
| Science career information website: |
| http://www.magpage.com/~arthures |
-----------------------------------------
=== no change to below, included for reference and context ====
Kev.-
was low! HA! I have already lost 50%. Not only are we out of work
we are also going broke!
How low can it go? I think a lot more. If Greespan would lower the
damn interest rates we might see some things turn around.
Kev.-
John Jacobson
six years are up. Now, offshore programmers, that is a different story. If
you want something to worry about, worry about that. There is NOTHING the US
govt can do to protect you against that. You just have to be better than
they are.
--
John M. Jacobson
Visit Jake's Delphi Page at http://www.xnet.com/~johnjac
Cycling to cure cancer - http://homepages.borland.com/jkaster/tnt/
"Kev.-" <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3aaecbfb...@ns1.nothingbutnet.net...
John Jacobson
rates in January, and there are lags built into the economy such that
monetary stimulus takes several months to take effect (6-18 months depending
on circumstances). Given these facts, I think it will get worse until about
June, at least. And don't expect Bush's tax cut to do the trick either, as
that thing is not front loaded. I don't see much that looks like it would
quickly turn this economy around.
BTW, it is entirely possible that the Fed *wants* a recession, to weed out
excess speculation and unsound investments. It gets rid of "irrational
exuberance".
--
John M. Jacobson
Visit Jake's Delphi Page at http://www.xnet.com/~johnjac
Cycling to cure cancer - http://homepages.borland.com/jkaster/tnt/
"Kev.-" <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3aaede93...@ns1.nothingbutnet.net...
John Jacobson
--
John M. Jacobson
Visit Jake's Delphi Page at http://www.xnet.com/~johnjac
Cycling to cure cancer - http://homepages.borland.com/jkaster/tnt/
"Tim Holt" <ina...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:SbAr6.378945$w35.60...@news1.rdc1.nj.home.com...
philotsopher
will demand and get higher salaries. I would have to think that he is elated
about what is happening to us. He figures if we sweat for a few more months,
we will be begging to work for $12 an hour. He might be correct too, hunger
is a major motivator.
--------
philotsopher
"Kev.-" <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3aaede93...@ns1.nothingbutnet.net...
philotsopher
the government could stop this from happening, the problem is that the
endorse it.
------------
Philotsopher
"John Jacobson" <joh...@nospam.xnet.com> wrote in message
news:98mrhg$grk$1...@flood.xnet.com...
philotsopher
They wanted it, and now they have got it. And yet they will analyze data and
say that they can't be sure that it's a recession yet.
---------------
Philotsopher
"John Jacobson" <joh...@nospam.xnet.com> wrote in message
news:98ms1n$h44$1...@flood.xnet.com...
Jay
>
> In 2000 Greenspan warned that if present trends continue, American workers
> will demand and get higher salaries. I would have to think that he is elated
> about what is happening to us. He figures if we sweat for a few more months,
> we will be begging to work for $12 an hour. He might be correct too, hunger
> is a major motivator.
>
Greenspan point blank endorsed flooding employment
markets with bodies via immigration to keep salaries and
thus inflation down.
And this is actually what happened. See:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/20010310/t000021097.html
================================================
Immigrant Tally Doubles in Census Count:
U.S. has twice as many undocumented workers as estimated.
Analysts say the influx helped fuel the economy.
By AARON ZITNER, Times Staff Writer
WASHINGTON--As the U.S. economy of the 1990s grew from sour to sizzling hot,
economists kept scratching their heads over several big questions. How
were companies finding enough new employees to keep business booming? And
if companies were fighting for workers, how come Americans were not
getting big pay raises?
Now, some analysts say the 2000 census offers an answer:
Illegal immigrants were pouring into the country far faster
than anyone knew,
(Jay: Typical LA Times boldface lie (They never actually asked
a Californian))
filling the nation's hunger for workers and keeping wages in check.
New data suggest that the United States has nearly twice the number of
undocumented immigrants than officials thought
(Jay: I think they really meant:'"officially" thought')
--possibly 11 million or more, compared with earlier estimates
of 6 million.
If so, then about 1 in 25 U.S. residents is an illegal immigrant.
About 40% of illegal immigrants live in California,
far more than in any other state.
The Census Bureau itself acknowledges that it may have
underestimated--by 100%--the number of people who came to the country
illegally in the last decade. Although the exact size of the undercount
is unclear, "we've had a major change in immigration, no matter what,"
said John Long, chief of the Census Bureau's population division. "It's
either been a large change in our immigration or a
phenomenal change." The discovery helps explain why local governments,
schools and hospitals were so ill-prepared for the huge demand
for services in recent years, particularly in big immigration states.
(Jay: I.E. no one gives a flying rats ass what happens to CA in this
craphole nation).
"We've been putting up portable [classroom] after portable
after portable, and we're still not keeping up," said school
board member Harald Martin of the Anaheim Union High School District.
The new estimates also show that the government crackdown on illegal
immigration has been much less successful than believed.
(Jay: Duhhhhhhhhhhh and "What crackdown?" Yeah those prisons are just
FILLED with businessmen who hired illegal aliens.)
And they provide a new glimpse of the fierce struggle for a livelihood
being waged at the lower end of the economic scale.
"If you ask where's the group in society that was beaten up the most,
the answer is high school dropout males," said Paul Harrington, a
population expert at Northeastern University in Boston.
"They've had huge earning drops. And yet this is the part of the market
we're flooding with foreign-born workers." He called the development
"very disturbing."
(Jay: American citizen ass meets nail pierced baseball bat)
Other analysts say the larger flood of workers is good news
for the U.S. economy, helping businesses expand and keep up
with the demand for goods and services.
(Jay: Greenspan's view)
"It looks like 5 million illegal immigrants were
here that we didn't know about--maybe more
(Jay: Will he submit to a polygraph test for this statement? I don't
think so. Typical corrupt piece of shit Clinton appointee, i.e.
lets suck corporate dick!)
--and it wasn't the end of the world," said Everett
M. Ehrlich, undersecretary for economic affairs at the Commerce
Department in President Clinton's first term.
"And what if we didn't have them? How could we have gotten by without
them? Look at how they increased our productive potential."
(Jay: I guess thats why he wasn't motivated to "burning the midnight oil"
to discover the obvious).
Analysts arrived at their conclusions on immigration through different
routes, but they all started with figures released over the last three
months that provided the first peek at census 2000.
As of mid-1999, officials had been expecting to find about 275 million
Americans. However, census workers actually counted 281.4 million. And
when Census Bureau statisticians sought to adjust the count to try to
account for people that the census missed, the number rose to 285
million.
"The population increased more than we expected it to. The question
is, how did that happen?" said Long, the census official. The bureau
knows how to correct for people who might have been double-counted, "and
it's not likely that we missed births or deaths, because those are very
well registered" by local governments. "So the problem would be somewhere
in the immigration numbers."
(Jay: Corrupt Corporate Stooge Clinton INS
adminstration would refuse to release population
information for years)
To help account for the difference in the numbers, Census
Bureau tabulators have suggested nearly doubling their estimate
of illegal immigrants who arrived during the decade from
2.8 million to 5.5 million. But Harrington, using his own formula
to capture the undercount, thinks the census missed as many as
7 million undocumented immigrants,
which he termed a "conservative" figure. By his accounting, illegal
immigrants in the United States total 13 million, or 4.6% of the
population.
To arrive at their number, Harrington, Andrew M. Sum and colleagues at
Northeastern University turned to a mystery that has dogged economists
throughout the decade. Each month, the government surveys the public to
find out how many people are working. It also ask businesses how many
people they employ.
The two numbers should come close to matching, but they grew further
and further apart during the 1990s. Businesses said they created nearly
23 million jobs from 1992 to 2000--and they have no incentive to
overstate the number because they must pay taxes on each worker.
But the worker survey turned up only 16.7 million new jobs,
a significant difference. Economists and Federal Reserve
Chairman Alan Greenspan suspected that the worker survey
was flawed because it included an assumption of the total
population that was too low.
The Census Bureau will release more data in the coming year
that should further illuminate the hidden population of illegal
immigrants. The data will shed light on what nations
they came from and how many took high-wage, high-tech jobs
rather than low-wage jobs.
With the economy now weakening, some analysts wonder whether the
larger illegal population will mean greater hardship
for all in the low-wage work force. Martin, the Anaheim
school official, said companies might lay off citizens
before lower-wage illegal workers to save on salaries and
unemployment taxes. That could raise tensions between the two groups.
Harrington said some surveys show that employers believe immigrants have
a stronger work ethic than young male citizens on the low end of the wage
scale.
But on the whole, illegal workers are bound to feel the most pain in a
downturn, Harrington said, because they have no bargaining power. Indeed,
the AFL-CIO argues that illegal immigrants should not be deported but
given amnesty and allowed to team up with citizens in labor unions.
Mark Krikorian of the Center for Immigration Studies, a Washington
group that favors lower immigration levels, rejected the idea that
immigration law is unenforceable. "We know how to reduce illegal
immigration--by border enforcement and enforcing the ban on hiring
illegals--but we're unwilling to do it," he said.
"We want to like immigration because it's part of what America has
been and still is about, but we are also uncomfortable with
the consequences--the fiscal impact of importing people into a welfare state
and the impact it has on blue-collar Americans at the bottom of the job
ladder. We are ambivalent."
==========================================
Jay
Killfiled Trolls/Idiots: Jacobson, Winter.
Kev.-
compensated for the pressure we deal with. Greespan is an idiot and
its too bad he has that much control.
Kev.-
Jovan Bulajic
> So let's review why we need to import more H-1Bs:
> LOW WAGES
> INDENTURED SERVITUDE
Well, if you want to talk about impact that H-1Bs have on the US economy,
than you can't look at that only from your standpoint (and that point seems
to be a consultant that can't find work). ITs are big business and US is
still the major player in it, and as in every business you need to go ahead
to
stay on top. If there were no H-1Bs and other ways of immigration, some
other world economies (EU, Russia, China, etc.) would faster get strong
enough to create IT industry that can match (or surpass) that of a USA.
And then you couldn't stop them (with economic means) from exporting
software and IT services to the US.
By importing H1-Bs, at the same time you're getting cheap labor (cheap
not as a matter of low salary, but that it cost you nothing to train highly
qualified professional) and at the same time you're weakening that other
economies because you're taking their resources for free. And it is non
risk investment, too - year or two ago when dot.com and other IT
businesses were booming, you could import as much workforce as you
needed. Now when you're in recession it's easy to cut that number down,
but it's a question if that would be of real long-term help. Even during
the hard times such as recession you got to plan for the future (and IT
related business is the future), the rest of the world won't wait you to
recover.
So it's not that much matter of how many IT jobs for the US workers are
lost directly due to H-1B imports, but how much are they helping to the
whole economy. And if they're helping the IT business in the US to keep
the pace, than it is the appropriate measure. Also don't forget that most
of the money spent on the H-1B workers will stay in the US - they eat,
sleep, buy stuff, travel, pay taxes, etc.
--
Jovan Bulajic
Belgrade, Yugoslavia
bul...@sezampro.yu
John Jacobson
--
John M. Jacobson
Visit Jake's Delphi Page at http://www.xnet.com/~johnjac
Cycling to cure cancer - http://homepages.borland.com/jkaster/tnt/
"philotsopher" <philot...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:cuEr6.4631$VV4.7...@news.uswest.net...
John Jacobson
output have already occurred and been measured. I'm committing economic
forecasting by calling it a recession.
--
John M. Jacobson
Visit Jake's Delphi Page at http://www.xnet.com/~johnjac
Cycling to cure cancer - http://homepages.borland.com/jkaster/tnt/
"philotsopher" <philot...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:wwEr6.4653$VV4.7...@news.uswest.net...
Tim Holt
than you can't look at that only from your standpoint (and that point seems"
It is also having a disastrous effect on the IT college graduate looking for
their first job, the senior IT professional that wants to stay in the
industry, the IT worker looking to change jobs for a better salary,
technical growth, and career advancement. I could go on and on and on, but
I think you get the picture. Also, how does putting tens of thousands of
American IT professionals out of work help the US economy? It doesn't!
to be a consultant that can't find work).
"Jovan Bulajic" <bul...@sezampro.yu> wrote in message
news:98nu2e$r91$1...@news.EUnet.yu...
philotsopher
refuse to give them any more corporate welfare, refuse to let the companies
have any government contracts, or even refuse to let them sell their
software in the US. They could also impose heavy taxes on them.
There are various ways to do penalize companies like Microsoft and all the
others that are shipping their work overseas if they really cared to. Of
course the more likely scenario is that they would put loopholes into the
law just like they did with the domestic content on US made cars.
Realistically our present government isn't going to do any of these things
because they think shipping work overseas is a good thing.
----------------
Philotsopher
"John Jacobson" <joh...@nospam.xnet.com> wrote in message
news:98o0gv$14k$1...@flood.xnet.com...
philotsopher
you to leave Yugoslavia to work here on an H-1B. When you put me out of work
it will be for the benefit of the United States. Everytime an American loses
a job to an H-1B, the nation as a whole becomes stronger. Once most
Americans are unemployed the US will be the envy of the world.
You really helped me to understand the global picture. Silly me, I was just
angry because I lost my job to an H-1B and didn't realize that my patriotic
duty is to be happy that I'm unemployed.
----------------------
Philotsopher
"Jovan Bulajic" <bul...@sezampro.yu> wrote in message
news:98nu2e$r91$1...@news.EUnet.yu...
John
Reid Roman wrote in message <5Tzr6.12169$R_6.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
>I agree about California.
>
>The sky IS falling here...
>
>I am thinking about changing proffessions entirely!
>
Mostly as fun, but...
Below are a few cuts from posts that include salaries I seen from public
displays sites of the internet. Interesting, management of a high scale sandwich
shop has salary at least or higher than engineer or IT professions. I have not
shown references, but I have shown enough information so one can do a search
to find post or verify each. The results of these wage depression(s) will be
science students and experienced persons leaving technology professions like
those who have abandoned nursing, chemistry lab science, and physics applications.
Does anyone want to hire a want-to-be Ex-Technology person to teach
and manage people how engineer a deli sandwich? How about refrigeration?
I can charge your refrigeration unit with R134A and chart and balance air flow.
John IEEE, CS, Chem. Austin, TX.
[1]
Customer Development Marketing Manager - Deli
LOCATION: Marshall
COMPENSATION: $84,000.00-$96,000.00
POSITION TYPE: Full Time
[2]
Atlanta - Merchandise Manager/Service Deli
Salary:$ 90-115,000 + Bonus up to 50% + Stock
Responsible for meats, hot food, potato salad, party trays, etc.
Prefer 4-year degree, but not required.
[3] technology industry.
Production Manager LOCATION: US-NCJOB
TYPE: Direct
SALARY : $65000 - $70000
DESCRIPTION: Be a part of a start up operation.
[4]
Location: US-TX-confidential
Base Pay: $55,000 - $65,000/Year
Industry: Food HVAC Industrial
Required Travel: Negligible
Relocation Covered: Yes
This candidate will be responsible for all plant refrigeration
maintenance and maintenance personnel within the
manufacturing and processing of this three shift food
processing/mfg. operation.
Position Requirements:
* Knowledge food processing and manufacturing
* A team player with good organizational, planning and training
skills
* Must be results-driven & possess strong Preventative Maintenance
background.
* 5+ years of management experience
* Responsible for the scheduling & direction of refrigeration
[5]
Several Unix Administrators/Support up to 85K
Newsgroups: qc.jobs, mtl.jobs, can.jobs, misc.jobs
Date: 2001-03-09 14:09:39 PST
[6] Monster dot com board. Found 3-13-2001:
Restaurant Managers needed in Austin and throughout the surrounding area.
Full Service, Fast Food.
General Managers, Kitchen Managers, Chefs, Supervisors, Food & Beverage Managers
Salary: $27,000.00 to $65,000.00 per year plus bonus programs and benefit packages.
Position Type: Full Time
[7]
found 3-12-2001 flipdog
Software Engineers, Austin, TX. $48-55K.
Research, design and develop network software and device drivers for Win32 and Unix.
Minimum Bachelors degree in Electrical or Computer Engineering and 1 year as Software
Developer.
John Jacobson
> They could refuse to give these companies copyright protection in the US,
LOL. That is hardly a deterrent. Offshore programming doesn't need
copyright (and it doesn't get it anyway, in most of the countries of the
world).
> refuse to give them any more corporate welfare,
Empty threat. Offshore activities can't get govt funds anyway.
> refuse to let the companies
> have any government contracts,
Again, an empty threat. Programming done for the govt has to be done here
anyway.
> or even refuse to let them sell their
> software in the US.
You sure hate the American free enterprise system. The reality is that
when one country bans the products of the other, then the other country bans
the products of the first. It is called a trade war and the US can't afford
such a self-destructive route. You might think banning products made by
overseas subsidiaries of domestic firms is a relatively simple thing, but in
practice it never works out as neatly and cleanly as protectionists think.
Consider the possible alternatives:
1) Ban the domestic sales of all software created overseas. This punishes
all firms that make software overseas, not just "American" firms that move
programming offshore. This type of raw protectionism never works to the
benefit of the country that practices it because trade is a quid pro quo
system of give and take. If you ban foreign software, then the countries
where that software is made will simply turn around and ban something made
in America, maybe software, but most likely something that country also
produces or can get from alternative suppliers. Usually this will turn out
to be agricultural or manufactured items, thus hurting American exporters of
these goods. In the end all you will have done is throw some farmers or
assembly line workers out of their jobs and hurt American consumers. In
fact, you would cause big problems for American business because their
implementations of SAP, StarOffice, Linux, etc would suddenly be
unupdateable. Also, the biggest American software firms sell more product in
overseas markets than here in the US. If foreign countries decided to
reciprocate and ban American-made software these firms would find most of
their revenue gone and would have to lay off large numbers of Americans.
2) Ban only software created overseas by American firms. This would be
incredibly stupid because it would give foreign firms an advantage over
domestic multinational firms in the domestic market. You would eventually
find that all your software is created overseas.
3) Ban only software created by non-American firms. Same as #1 in impact.
Forrign countries are not going to buy American goods unless Americans will
buy theirs. Besides this would do nothing to address offshore programming by
"American" firms.
> They could also impose heavy taxes on them.
See above. A tax is like a wimpy ban. The effects are pretty much the
same if the tax is high enough. Domestic producers would be caught in the
recrimination.
>
> There are various ways to do penalize companies like Microsoft and all the
> others that are shipping their work overseas if they really cared to. Of
> course the more likely scenario is that they would put loopholes into the
> law just like they did with the domestic content on US made cars.
> Realistically our present government isn't going to do any of these things
> because they think shipping work overseas is a good thing.
You just don't get it. America is part of an international economy,
meaning that Americans sell a lot of goods overseas and buy a lot of goods
overseas. The key to economic prosperity is not found in limiting economic
exchange. Economic exchange is the ONLY way wealth gets created (and
transfered). Rather than engaging in stupid protectionist schemes that will
impoverish us, the govt ought to be opening markets to American goods.
John Jacobson
in the first place. Full-time work seems to have very low stress.
--
John M. Jacobson
Visit Jake's Delphi Page at http://www.xnet.com/~johnjac
Cycling to cure cancer - http://homepages.borland.com/jkaster/tnt/
"Kev.-" <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3aaf2190...@ns1.nothingbutnet.net...
John Jacobson
pain.
--
John M. Jacobson
Visit Jake's Delphi Page at http://www.xnet.com/~johnjac
Cycling to cure cancer - http://homepages.borland.com/jkaster/tnt/
"Tim Holt" <ina...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:7FLr6.380679$w35.60...@news1.rdc1.nj.home.com...
John Jacobson
to grasp. Just because one person gets a job doesn't mean another loses
theirs. If it were a zero sum game then that means it was good that you lost
your job, as it opened up the job for someone else (whose character is most
certainly of higher calibre than yours).
--
John M. Jacobson
Visit Jake's Delphi Page at http://www.xnet.com/~johnjac
Cycling to cure cancer - http://homepages.borland.com/jkaster/tnt/
"philotsopher" <philot...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:HbMr6.1360$725.1...@news.uswest.net...
Kev.-
reality is.
Kev.-
Kev.-
own words into it. I have never worked fulltime as I have always
consulted.
What I said was, that the stress isnt worth it for $12 buck an hour.
Webmaster
wrote:
>six years are up. Now, offshore programmers, that is a different story. If
>you want something to worry about, worry about that. There is NOTHING the US
I would like to ask you again, at this point to take a look at my site. I'm
specifically interested in YOUR commentary of my concept.
Webmaster.
--
www.webmeeters.net
- For forming international Virtual Companies from all talented professionals
from around the Net.
John Jacobson
As a FTE I can learn the intricacies of the business and the way
customers in the business' market sector act. I can see ways for our
products to fit them better and even see needs for new products. I can
parlay this knowledge into actions on my part that make me more useful to my
company. I'd estimate that this business-specific knowledge is easily MOST
of the skills a company really needs. If you take this away, all you have
left is coding. But coding by itself has no intrinsic value to the business
world. It is only when something USEFUL to the consumers is produced that
any wealth has been created. When consultants are brought in who lack this
intimate inside knowledge of the firm and the business it is in, they CAN'T
possibly produce what the company really needs except by accident. They do a
quick and inevitably superficial "analysis" in a few days (as if days can
replace years of inside knowledge of a business), whip up a variation of the
same cookie-cutter software they've been fitting to every firm, and then
charge ridiculous rates for this. They take off once the company has signed
off on the result and then the company sits down and tries to use the
software in their business. At first it may seem a successful fit, as a
generic solution, but over time it is revealed through use that important
business factors were left out or misunderstood by the consultants. The
company is now faced with two possible ways of dealing with this. They can
invite the consultants back to fix these mistakes, which they already know
from experience is an expensive endeavor. Or they can hire in house
programmers who will learn the business and therefore be more successful in
keeping this kind of thing from happening again.
Inside business knowledge is a useful thing and does wonders for job
security and pay.
BTW, the average hourly wage for America is less than $18 an hour. The
average American would leap at a chance to make $40 an hour.
"Kev.-" <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3ab15c71...@ns1.nothingbutnet.net...
> >Are you getting $12 an hour?
> X $10 and that is my rate.
>
> Bu lately when I have had people offer rates as low as $40 it is
> insulting.
>
> But the thing is that I do not want to go perm but like you said I may
> be forced. Yes there are perm jobs like you said but not many for top
> end engineers, which I can get, but the fun of this work is
> consulting.
>
> The fact that being able to jump from companies and get your name out
> there is what this is all about. Working full time you might as well
> give me a gun so I can shoot myself. I cant be bothered playing
> games. You give me a spec and I do it there you go. You give me a
> tight deadline and the thrill is beating it. That is the consulting
> world and that is why I have been doing it for the last 12 years.
>
> I don't want low stress I like the pressure but I also need to be
> compensated for my experience and not have to drop rates to compete
> with the H1 who do not have the skills that I have acquired over the
> years. Yes I complain here but I keep my skills sharp as a tack.
>
> And the benefit of consulting is that you are forced to stay on top
> and not allowed to slack.
>
> Look it isn't for everyone and I understand that but at the same time
> perm employment isn't for me.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kev.-
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:05:48 -0600, "John Jacobson"
> <joh...@nospam.xnet.com> wrote:
>
> >Are you getting $12 an hour?
> >
> >--
> >John M. Jacobson
> >Visit Jake's Delphi Page at http://www.xnet.com/~johnjac
> >Cycling to cure cancer - http://homepages.borland.com/jkaster/tnt/
> >
> >
> >"Kev.-" <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:3ab026fb....@ns1.nothingbutnet.net...
Webmaster
>>>"Angel Investor"
>Remember a contractor != investor.
>
>
>I would recommened trying to hit companies with your idea rather than
>going through recruiters.
>
Contractor? What contractor? I think you haven't got what I mean by "Angel". It
means exactly the same thing almost AS an angel investor like in Silicon Valley,
but at a person level, rather than at a business level. As in, an old guy (say
photographer) sees this fresh young kid with great new ideas, remembers what he
was like, and decides to put some money into it. Expecting to get it back of
course, Plus interest, it is definitely a business deal, but there's also
definitely much more than money involved in the entire equation, ie., I'm trying
to take the heartlessness of "investing" away from most folks who say, buy
stocks, out there. I mean, if YOU had to put money somewhere, as an investment,
where would you put it, Microsoft, or this kid who contacts you with his idea
for a new multimedia appliance, and reminds of yourself when you were his age -
do YOU remember when you had an idea which you were SURE was going to make
millions and there was noone to believe you? Can you not check out for yourself
the viability of his proposition? Can it not lead to actually MORE $$$ than
putting it in MS?....... I believe you would, not because you're benevolent or a
philanthroper, but simply because you're human.
philotsopher
> Inside business knowledge is a useful thing and does
wonders for job
> security and pay.
>
basic economics have a job?
----------
Philotsopher
John Jacobson
a higher calibre? <g>
--
John M. Jacobson
Visit Jake's Delphi Page at http://www.xnet.com/~johnjac
Cycling to cure cancer - http://homepages.borland.com/jkaster/tnt/
"Kev.-" <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3ab02753....@ns1.nothingbutnet.net...
Kev.-
Remember people will only stay at a web site if you can draw them in.
You need to reduce the size of your graphics to have the page load
more quickly. People are in a hurry and they don't want to wait, if
they have to wait they will leave your site without even getting the
chance to see what it is all about.
The term: ANGEL
If you are trying to target professionals this sounds very childish
and you will not be taken serious. I understand what you are trying
to do but your approach is wrong.
You need your about section easy to find. I didn't even catch it
until I sat there and had to read the whole thing. People don't want
to read. Add an About Us button or something along those lines.
Also shrink your buttons too big. Have the button say recruiter
instead of click here.
Also, if you are trying to target consultants remember we do not like
recruiters! You will not get the people you are looking for.
Recruiters are not a good thing. In the consulting world we use them
only if we have too.
If you want to discuss this further please email me by replying to
this message.
Kev.-
On Fri, 16 Mar 2001 01:37:19 GMT, webmaster...@webmeeters.net
(Webmaster) wrote:
>On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 01:00:03 -0700, "philotsopher" <philot...@my-deja.com>
>wrote:
>
>>I found it rather confusing just what your site was for.
>>Perhaps more explanation on the home page would help. The
>>graphics are excellent.
>>----------
>>Philotsopher
>
>Merci! :)
>
>Did you read the About page?
>
>
>
>Webmaster
Webmaster
wrote:
>I found it rather confusing just what your site was for.
>Perhaps more explanation on the home page would help. The
>graphics are excellent.
>----------
>Philotsopher
Merci! :)
Did you read the About page?
Webmaster
John Jacobson
--
John M. Jacobson
Visit Jake's Delphi Page at http://www.xnet.com/~johnjac
Cycling to cure cancer - http://homepages.borland.com/jkaster/tnt/
"Kev.-" <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3ab026fb....@ns1.nothingbutnet.net...
philotsopher
Perhaps more explanation on the home page would help. The
graphics are excellent.
----------
Philotsopher
"Webmaster" <webmaster...@webmeeters.net> wrote in
message news:3ab04ef7...@pubnews.netcom.net.uk...
The Ur
> I talked....
> So let's review why we need to import more H-1Bs:
> LOW WAGES
> INDENTURED SERVITUDE
Didn't you see the one about 1998 salaries? H1's are NOT the problem. They
MAY be a symptom.
Look more closely at some of the other postings - they are pointing to the
fact that the real problem is from all those so-called "computer whizzes"
propagated by teachers and lecturers who think they have students who KNOW
computers because they spend so much time on them (as far as I can figure,
they do so playing games).
I've been dealing with a training outfit for the last couple of years -
developing entry-level I.T. people. About 75% of the under 25's who come in
as trainees claim they are "experts" on the basics of comp0uters, and want
to be given credit. About 99% of them get hung up on the first module -
which is simply about finding one's way around Windoze. They can't do simple
things like read their way through Explorer directories or use the Find
files/Folders in the start menu or Copy/Paste or zip files. Yet these are
people who have been HIRED to do web pages, web scripting, servlets, etc.
And the thing is, these people DON'T know the value of what a real
consultant can do; they're the real reason why consultant rates are dropping
faster as NASDAQ.
The Ur
Kev.-
Bu lately when I have had people offer rates as low as $40 it is
insulting.
But the thing is that I do not want to go perm but like you said I may
be forced. Yes there are perm jobs like you said but not many for top
end engineers, which I can get, but the fun of this work is
consulting.
The fact that being able to jump from companies and get your name out
there is what this is all about. Working full time you might as well
give me a gun so I can shoot myself. I cant be bothered playing
games. You give me a spec and I do it there you go. You give me a
tight deadline and the thrill is beating it. That is the consulting
world and that is why I have been doing it for the last 12 years.
I don't want low stress I like the pressure but I also need to be
compensated for my experience and not have to drop rates to compete
with the H1 who do not have the skills that I have acquired over the
years. Yes I complain here but I keep my skills sharp as a tack.
And the benefit of consulting is that you are forced to stay on top
and not allowed to slack.
Look it isn't for everyone and I understand that but at the same time
perm employment isn't for me.
Thanks,
Kev.-
On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:05:48 -0600, "John Jacobson"
Webmaster
>Your graphics are will done but your logo is way to over powering.
Thank you!
>Remember people will only stay at a web site if you can draw them in.
>You need to reduce the size of your graphics to have the page load
>more quickly. People are in a hurry and they don't want to wait, if
The logo Gif is 22K! That's small enough, innit? <Poll from ng - everybody,
what's your thoughts?> Entire title page is ~ 33K, that's about 11 secs on a
33.6? I really don't see a problem......
>they have to wait they will leave your site without even getting the
>chance to see what it is all about.
>
>The term: ANGEL
>
>If you are trying to target professionals this sounds very childish
>and you will not be taken serious. I understand what you are trying
>to do but your approach is wrong.
Er - I chose this after Giver because it is the *known* term for Investors!!
"Angel Investor", as known in Silicon Valley! How is that childish?
>Also shrink your buttons too big. Have the button say recruiter
>instead of click here.
JOOC, what res are you @ ?
>
>Also, if you are trying to target consultants remember we do not like
>recruiters! You will not get the people you are looking for.
>Recruiters are not a good thing. In the consulting world we use them
>only if we have too.
Um - you have to work for *somebody*....? Who you going to get $$$ from? It
would be absolutely utopian if groups of people could also be employed by other
groups of *people*, that's exactly what I'm aiming for with my site, but it'll
be a while, eh? Or are you on Internet time? :) Even then, the term for it would
still be the same......
Any more thoughts? Please feel free.........
Webmaster.
Phil Eamon
> ...take a look at my site.
Permit me to butt in. The site is somewhat cheesy, not that it really hurts the eye, it's
amateurish rather. Your biggest problem is text and colours (some text is unreadable
because of colour scheme, like bright green on white, for example.) Let's see, what
else... "It's" means "it is". Graphics aren't bad, but the page layout unbalanced. Btw,
speaking of esteemed John Jakobson, have you seen *his* page <g>?
Webmaster
>Permit me to butt in. The site is somewhat cheesy,
"cheesy" meaning.....?
>not that it really hurts the eye, it's
>amateurish rather.
Yes, I'm not an artist, and have a crappy MS mouse to boot, which is about to
cause my hand to drop off. I want to change the stars to icons later, myself if
my right brain co-operates, else I guess I'll have to outsource it.
>Your biggest problem is text and colours (some text is unreadable
>because of colour scheme, like bright green on white, for example.) Let's see, what
Er - which page did you mean here?
>else... "It's" means "it is".
Also, which page?
>Graphics aren't bad, but the page layout unbalanced. Btw,
>speaking of esteemed John Jakobson, have you seen *his* page <g>?
Um yeah, the Delphi one? What's wrong with that?
Kev.-
>>The term: ANGEL
I understand but most people wont have a clue as to what you are
talking about. And it just sounds kiddish. No offense just an
opinion.
>The logo Gif is 22K! That's small enough, innit? <Poll from ng - everybody,
>what's your thoughts?> Entire title page is ~ 33K, that's about 11 secs on a
>33.6? I really don't see a problem......
Actually you could reduce the resolution of the graphic as you are
using many color therefore speeding up your loading time. But really
the logo is just too overpowering.
>>"Angel Investor"
Remember a contractor != investor.
I would recommened trying to hit companies with your idea rather than
going through recruiters.
Kev.-
Ed
Delphi gig, and started looking. It took me 3 weeks to land another
assignment. I got tons of calls everyday. The thing is that NONE of
these calls were for Delphi positions, they were all C++. Luckily, I
have been using C++ along side of Delphi for years, and went for
certication ni UNIX/C/C++.
So, the consultant scene doesn't look bleak in NYC, the Delphi
consultant scene is dead in the water.
Ed
Ed
incredibly imprudent. Anyone that didn't see this recession coming a
few years back must have been wearing blinders.
It's pretty ironic that the same EXACT situation happened to George
Bush after the Reagan years. Since the president is heald accountable
for the economy, this could be another "4 and out" presidency.
Clay Shannon
> compensated for the pressure we deal with.
True stress is when you don't know if or how you're going to pay the rent or
buy groceries for the next day or week. So if people are going to be paid
based on their stress levels, the Big Mac makers should make Big Bucks (at
which point their stress level would drop, and...)
John Jacobson
jobs, are you still unemployed?
"philotsopher" <philot...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:w2Es6.1465$mg5.8...@news.uswest.net...
Kev.-
bacause of Bush and Reagan and destroyed it in eight for Bush!
My point behind the statement about Greespanit that last last he
increased interest alomst every month or at lesat it seemed. He had
to have realize the effects that would of caused on the economy 6-8
months later. Now he should drop interest back down quickly to try
and revive what he screwed up.
philotsopher
problem as long as idiots like you continue to shill for
H-1B.
-----------
Philotsopher
"John Jacobson" <joh...@nospam.xnet.com> wrote in message
news:9904ff$mm8$1...@flood.xnet.com...
philotsopher
continued to improve, workers would demand and get good
salaries. He gave a big speech in December where he said
exactly that. He created this recession specifically to
derail the 98% of the workers that he fears. Greenspan is an
elitist and has been wrong everytime he has opened his mouth
the last two years. You are correct that he knew what would
happen, the rich will continue to get richer, and we will
become impoverished. Greenspan is cherished by the
Republicans and the whores like Clinton. Clinton and Bush
are exactly alike, they are just puppets of big money
elitists.
--------------
Philotsopher
"Kev.-" <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3ab3cb7b...@ns1.nothingbutnet.net...
John Jacobson
stupid as you are right now. I don't support H-1B and therefore obviously
can not be "shilling for H-1B". If you were not such a dumbass dipshit,
you'd have realized this, you moron. Geez, you are dumb.
"philotsopher" <philot...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:IQXs6.4088$Ym5.7...@news.uswest.net...
John Jacobson
"philotsopher" <philot...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:lWXs6.4096$Ym5.7...@news.uswest.net...
Webmaster
>speaking of esteemed John Jakobson, have you seen *his* page <g>?
Btw, Mr. Jacobson, I'm *still* waiting for your comments on my page. (Are my
posts not showing up on your server or something? Well, hope this one
does......)
John Jacobson
1) The star that says "Create Team!" ought to say "Create a Team"
2) the captions above the two yellow buttons on the left should have the
slash taken out
3) I think you ought to remove all exclamation points
4) You might want to rephrase the sentence on the FAQ page that says that
Angels have the power to BLACKLIST workers. Blacklist has a very negative
connotation.
The idea is an interesting one. There is not much I can say about the web
design itself, as I am not a web designer or script kiddie like most of the
(unemployed) regulars in a.c.c. (I do real C++ and Object Pascal application
programming in the database utilities market.) Seems OK to me. I think the
verbage is enough to frighten away posers and mediocre wannabes.
The phrase "Angel Investor" is still relatively new, so a few people
might be surprised or put off by the use of the word "Angel" in that regard.
That will pass with time, most likely.
John M. Jacobson
Visit Jake's Delphi Page at http://www.xnet.com/~johnjac
Cycling to cure cancer - http://homepages.borland.com/jkaster/tnt/
"Webmaster" <webmaster...@webmeeters.net> wrote in message
news:3ab5ab1e....@pubnews.netcom.net.uk...
philotsopher
> Notes:
> 1) The star that says "Create Team!" ought to say
"Create a Team"
> 2) the captions above the two yellow buttons on the left
should have the
> slash taken out
> 3) I think you ought to remove all exclamation points
> 4) You might want to rephrase the sentence on the FAQ
page that says that
> Angels have the power to BLACKLIST workers. Blacklist has
a very negative
> connotation.
>
> The idea is an interesting one. There is not much I can
say about the web
> design itself, as I am not a web designer or script kiddie
like most of the
> (unemployed) regulars in a.c.c. (I do real C++ and Object
Pascal application
> programming in the database utilities market.) Seems OK to
me. I think the
> verbage is enough to frighten away posers and mediocre
wannabes.
>
Jacobson is a hack so don't pay attention to him. Most of
the other posters in this NG are professional programmers. I
did a search for "Artist" and C++ programmer and didn't get
hits, how come?
--------------
Philotsopher
Michael McGaha
> > ...take a look at my site.
I'll make a few comments...
1: put all your style information in a .css file and include that in your
pages. Then make styles for all the font and color changes your are making
on your pages. For example...
<font face="Trebuchet MS" size="1" color="lime"><b> View Wanteds </b></font>
That should be put into the style sheet. then you can change all those with
one small change... and change them you should, in my opinion.
2: I REALLY would do something about that large logo. I know others have
mentioned it, but it is going to detract from your credibility.
3: Try a much more subtle background. That really does make the text hard to
read.
4: pick a color scheme and stick with it. Web development is not a race to
see who can put the most colors on the screen. Even if you want a lot of
colors, stay with the style from page to page. I clicked on your info page
and most of the page real estate is wasted on the left, what is left is a
white bacground with blue an red text. Not appealing. It also took WAY too
long to load. and I'm on DSL.
5: Don't change your fonts up so much. there are so many face, color, size,
attribute changes that it becomes hard to get the meaning of the content
because of the distraction of the changes... for example all those italics
looks like you are talking down to the reader. stressing words that don't
need stressed. Try reading it out loud and stressing those words.
Just a few of the things I noticed
Michael McGaha
John Jacobson
professional programmers. I make my living from programming commercial
software and haven't had any problem finding well-paying jobs for the past
seven years. You on the other hand are an unemployed programmer wannabe
unable to fool anyone into hiring your sorry ass. Thus you aren't even at
the level of a hack.
"philotsopher" <philot...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:Xqht6.1340$gu5.7...@news.uswest.net...
clarosa
Webmaster
wrote:
>I
>did a search for "Artist" and C++ programmer and didn't get
>hits, how come?
It's just started! :), and that too I cleared the databases after testing -
couple of entries will be back up again shortly. Keep coming back to the site,
and don't forget to let me know of any +ve partnerships that you get from it :).
Webmaster
wrote:
>2: I REALLY would do something about that large logo. I know others have
>mentioned it, but it is going to detract from your credibility.
Being worked on :)
>3: Try a much more subtle background. That really does make the text hard to
>read.
"subtle".....?
>4: pick a color scheme and stick with it. Web development is not a race to
>see who can put the most colors on the screen. Even if you want a lot of
>colors, stay with the style from page to page. I clicked on your info page
>and most of the page real estate is wasted on the left, what is left is a
>white bacground with blue an red text. Not appealing. It also took WAY too
>long to load. and I'm on DSL.
Hehe no.... that space is for an ad. Did you read the part of the "Info" where
it said "software, like the one on the left"......?
>5: Don't change your fonts up so much. there are so many face, color, size,
>attribute changes that it becomes hard to get the meaning of the content
>because of the distraction of the changes... for example all those italics
>looks like you are talking down to the reader. stressing words that don't
>need stressed. Try reading it out loud and stressing those words.
Erm - what changes? really? I've tried to be quite consistent. The italicised
words are on purpose, cause "Teams" and "Workers" are really innocuous words
aren't they? They mean something very specific on my site though- a little
differnet from the dicitionary meanings, hence the italics.
Thanks for your comments, any more would be appreciated.
SMF.
Webmaster
wrote:
> 2) the captions above the two yellow buttons on the left should have the
>slash taken out
it's meant to say "If you are or want to be"..... how do you propose I phrase
that?
> 4) You might want to rephrase the sentence on the FAQ page that says that
>Angels have the power to BLACKLIST workers. Blacklist has a very negative
>connotation.
It's supposed to!! You run away with someones $$$$, it's supposed to be VERY
negative!
Vincent Granville
it's right time to enter the IT field,
Tim Holt wrote:
> No kidding, I went from easily getting 10-15+ calls a day on my cell-phone
> voice mail to absolutely nothing, zero, zilch, nada at this point. I don't
> even bother to check it anymore. I'm in the NYC metro area and the stock
> market tanking doesn't help matters either. I've always noticed that when
> the market climbs, so does the number of calls I get.
>
> What's really killing me is that I can't even frigg-n day trade to make some
> extra cash and pass the time away, because the market is so bad and
> unpredictable.
>
> "Kev.-" <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3aaecbfb...@ns1.nothingbutnet.net...
> > Get this yesterday a recruiter called me and said that they needed an
> > Oracle DBA / data modeler, VB, C++ and Java. I said sounds good what
> > is the rate?
> >
> > HE said well they are looking to pay $40 hour. I said that is
> > extremely low and I doubt you will find anyone at that price.
> >
> > HE then asked me if I knew anyone that would be interested and I
> > replied, What I think I might. He said who?
> >
> > I said you should try an H1.
> >
> > The phone went silent for about a minute and he just sighed. As far
> > as I am concerned they have brought this on themselves. They are now
> > saying that they cant find qualified people but I had to remind him
> > that isn't that what the H1 program was for? And I also ha d to
> > remind him how they keep increasing the caps as there is not enough
> > qualified individuals. I think they mean there is not enough
> > qualified H1s at the price they want to pay H1s.
> >
> > Sonner or later the H1s will be up to speed and as soon as that does
> > happen IT is history as we have know it. The only advice is start
> > looking for a new carrer. I dont know what to do yet but as soon as I
> > figure it out I will probably be leaving IT. Believe me when I say
> > this, I dont want to but what choice do we really have?
> >
> > Kev.-
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:14:04 -0700, "philotsopher"
> > <philot...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >
> > >I talked to a recruiter from THOR today. He described a company that
> wanted
> > >somebody with the typical ridiculous list of skills required. They also
> want
> > >to pay somebody low. I asked the recruiter how long this company is
> willing
> > >to wait to find somebody. He told me that companies know that there are
> > >plenty of unemployed software people so they can be very choosey.
> > >
> > >He also told me that things are at a dead standstill in California and
> > >Arizona. He said the only place that is hiring IT people is Albertson's
> > >grocery stores corporate in Idaho. He assured me that he would call in
> > >several weeks if he comes across any jobs. Of course ... if I was willing
> to
> > >move to Idaho.....
> > >
> > >He sounded like he was really struggling. If they can't get people hired,
> > >they get fired.
> > >
> > >So let's review why we need to import more H-1Bs:
> > >
> > >LOW WAGES
> > >
> > >INDENTURED SERVITUDE
> > >
> > >--------
> > >
> > >philotsopher
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
--
http://www.datashaping.com : Advanced Statistical Strategies
Vincent Granville
re-reading, I'm not sure that what I was going to say makes much sense. However, I
know a place where they cut jobs and increased the salary of those that were not
laid-off, to boost morale.
Vincent
--
www.datashaping.com : Advanced Statistical Strategies
John Jacobson
news:2xAr6.379020$w35.60...@news1.rdc1.nj.home.com...
> What's really killing me is that I can't even frigg-n day trade to make
some
> extra cash and pass the time away, because the market is so bad and
> unpredictable.
It figures that Tim would be one of those morons that was day-trading.
By the way, if you want a chuckle, set your newsgroup server to
newsgroups.borland.com and see if any of his posts show up there. He is so
brilliant he doesn't realize that he's only posting to the local ISP news
server and not the real thing for newsgroups like
borland.public.delphi.jobs. What a genius. He probably posted several trolls
that almost nobody saw over there.
Relworp
>Look more closely at some of the other postings - they are pointing to
>the fact that the real problem is from all those so-called "computer
>whizzes" propagated by teachers and lecturers who think they have
>students who KNOW computers because they spend so much time on them (as
>far as I can figure, they do so playing games).
Actually in my town, that's what makes it so difficult for those of us who
have spent their ENTIRE LIVES in study to find employment at any reasonable
rate. The local idiot mill (university) churns out several hundred
"professionals" per year, most of whom snatch up the good jobs right out of
school. Then they invariably cause massive problems with their
incompetence.
That may sound like a ripe opportunity for a qualified IT man, but it's
not. The problem is that you come into these companies with the burden of
the previous person's incompetence. Everything you suggest solution-wise
is subject to doubt, and you continually find yourself in the position of
your actions being governed by H.R. Managers or even worse, Office
Managers.
The plight of a consultant in Cincinnati is bleak indeed. Since my
credentials are irrelevant, I can only long for grey hair, since that seems
to be the basis of credibility here.
I hope it's not so bad where you guys are.
relworP