The Woman Without a Vagina
Kerro
actors, Mary Woronov (Oh, *you* know; one of the Velvet Underground/Plastic
Exploding Inevitable dancers; Warhol Superstar ("Chelsea Football Club Girls")
and featured in several Roger Corman productions, eg, "Death Race 2000" as well
as "Eating Raoooul".)
A flimsy and disappointing volume (She appeared to, belatedly, be trying to
build up a public image as a dominatrix type), one part of the book nevertheless
caught my attention. Woronov mentions, by name (and photo), an obsessive female
fan who was supposedly born without a vagina. Is this at all plausible? The
subject is discussed at some length. If nothing else, it will give Jamie Lee Curtis
a bit of breathing space.
Yo! Lara Superstar. Whaddayasay?
Lara Hopkins
> Woronov mentions, by name (and photo), an obsessive female fan who was
> supposedly born without a vagina. Is this at all plausible? The subject is
> discussed at some length. If nothing else, it will give Jamie Lee Curtis a
> bit of breathing space.
>
> Yo! Lara Superstar. Whaddayasay?
Ho! Kerro.
Good lord. Why did the no-vagina subject come up in this context?
Yes, a woman can completely lack a vagina; this may be an isolated
abnormality (in an XX female), or part of Mullerian agenesis (also known
as Rokitansky syndrome or Mayer-Rokitansky syndrome; also XX female) ,
or it may be part of Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (XY genotype,
female phenotype). There are multiple other possible vaginal
abnormalities, such as a complete transverse septum, which might be
loosely interpreted by the lay person as "having no vagina".
Lots more at
http://www.youngwomenshealth.org/vaginalagenesis.html
(basic info sheet)
and
http://www.obgyn.net/english/pubs/features/tfp/penzias_tfp.htm
(more detail; medical jargon involved).
Lara
--
'you are meanyheads who use captious sophistry, and I'm right.'
Daniel Ucko paraphrases TurnAround's apology to AFU.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~waawa/
Kerro
>
> Kerro <ke...@mira.net> wrote:
>
> > Woronov mentions, by name (and photo), an obsessive female fan who was
> > supposedly born without a vagina. Is this at all plausible? The subject is
> > discussed at some length. If nothing else, it will give Jamie Lee Curtis a
> > bit of breathing space.
> >
> > Yo! Lara Superstar. Whaddayasay?
>
> Ho! Kerro.
Yeah, Ho. (I'm still logged on)....
>
> Good lord. Why did the no-vagina subject come up in this context?
Well, *she* brought it up (Woronov, that is; and made a big deal of it too.)
>
> Yes, a woman can completely lack a vagina; this may be an isolated
> abnormality (in an XX female), or part of Mullerian agenesis (also known
> as Rokitansky syndrome or Mayer-Rokitansky syndrome;
To continue with my highbrow movie theme; isn't it interesting that 'Mad Max's
surname is "Rockatansky". What do you conclude from that? I haven't concluded
anything - yet; but that's only because you've just told me.
also XX female) ,
> or it may be part of Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (XY genotype,
> female phenotype). There are multiple other possible vaginal
> abnormalities, such as a complete transverse septum, which might be
> loosely interpreted by the lay person as "having no vagina".
Thanks. I certainly qualify as a 'lay person'..
Viv
:Kerro <ke...@mira.net> wrote:
:
:> Woronov mentions, by name (and photo), an obsessive female fan who was
:> supposedly born without a vagina. Is this at all plausible? The subject is
:> discussed at some length. If nothing else, it will give Jamie Lee Curtis a
:> bit of breathing space.
:>
:> Yo! Lara Superstar. Whaddayasay?
:
:Ho! Kerro.
:
:Good lord. Why did the no-vagina subject come up in this context?
:
:Yes, a woman can completely lack a vagina; this may be an isolated
:abnormality (in an XX female), or part of Mullerian agenesis (also known
:as Rokitansky syndrome or Mayer-Rokitansky syndrome; also XX female) ,
:or it may be part of Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (XY genotype,
:female phenotype). There are multiple other possible vaginal
:abnormalities, such as a complete transverse septum, which might be
:loosely interpreted by the lay person as "having no vagina".
[...]
IHaveHeard academic speculation that Elizabeth Tudor (or ER the first)
was afflicted with this condition, and that this was the true reason
she was able to convince her ministers of state that she should never
marry (lacking the wherewithal to produce an heir, the disadvantages
of marriage would far outweigh the political/diplomatic advantages).
Of course, lacking a detailed autopsy report to modern standards, such
speculation is rather like the JLC AIS[1] speculation - a good story,
but not much else.
Vivienne "allegedly she was nonetheless notoriously promiscuous and
provided 'good sport' with the minimal orifices she did have" Smythe
1. If you really don't know, email me.
--
An eye for an eye finishes up with more severed eyeballs
than anyone's really got a legitimate use for.
(Phil Edwards expresses his lack of appetite for
neverending rebuttals)
Ian A. York
Lara Hopkins <wa...@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>Kerro <ke...@mira.net> wrote:
>
>> Woronov mentions, by name (and photo), an obsessive female fan who was
>> supposedly born without a vagina. Is this at all plausible? The subject is
>
Not only can a woman lack a vagina, such a vagina-less woman can become
pregnant.
Ian "the fact that the son resembled the father excludes an even more
miraculous conception" York
--
Ian York (iay...@panix.com) <http://www.panix.com/~iayork/>
"-but as he was a York, I am rather inclined to suppose him a
very respectable Man." -Jane Austen, The History of England
Lara Hopkins
> Lara Hopkins wrote:
> > Yes, a woman can completely lack a vagina; this may be an isolated
> > abnormality (in an XX female), or part of Mullerian agenesis (also known
> > as Rokitansky syndrome or Mayer-Rokitansky syndrome;
>
> To continue with my highbrow movie theme; isn't it interesting that 'Mad Max's
> surname is "Rockatansky". What do you conclude from that?
Uh, nothing? What do you conclude from it?
Lara
Sidhedevil
George Miller (director and at least co-screenwriter of the Mad Max
series) was a doctor before beginning his film career. So he might
have given Max that last name as an injoke indicating that Max was no,
um, pussy.
Just a thought.
Sidhedevil "Now Big Pussy from the Sopranos, on the other hand..." the
She-Devil
>
> Lara
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Kerro
>
> In article <1ek3zix.gnw7u61qhjzzcN%wa...@iinet.net.au>,
> wa...@iinet.net.au (Lara Hopkins) wrote:
> > Kerro <ke...@mira.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Lara Hopkins wrote:
> >
> > > > Yes, a woman can completely lack a vagina; this may be an isolated
> > > > abnormality (in an XX female), or part of Mullerian agenesis (also
> known
> > > > as Rokitansky syndrome or Mayer-Rokitansky syndrome;
> > >
> > > To continue with my highbrow movie theme; isn't it interesting that
> 'Mad Max's
> > > surname is "Rockatansky". What do you conclude from that?
> >
> > Uh, nothing? What do you conclude from it?
>
> George Miller (director and at least co-screenwriter of the Mad Max
> series) was a doctor before beginning his film career. So he might
> have given Max that last name as an injoke indicating that Max was no,
> um, pussy.
>
> Just a thought.
Good answer. I do recall now that Miller had worked in a casualty ward
of a large hostipal. Perhaps the "Rockatansky" bit was an obscure medical
in-joke....
Kerro <...and waawa is obviously not in on it.>
http://home.mira.net/~kerro/
Lara Hopkins
> wa...@iinet.net.au (Lara Hopkins) wrote:
> > Kerro <ke...@mira.net> wrote:
> > > To continue with my highbrow movie theme; isn't it interesting that
> > >'Mad Max's
> > > surname is "Rockatansky". What do you conclude from that?
> >
> > Uh, nothing? What do you conclude from it?
>
> George Miller (director and at least co-screenwriter of the Mad Max
> series) was a doctor before beginning his film career. So he might
> have given Max that last name as an injoke indicating that Max was no,
> um, pussy.
Ah. Do a google search on Karl Rokitansky; description of vaginal
agenesis was the least of his achievements.
Lara
JamiJo
>red-blooded American male, thinks of "having no vagina" as "having no
>vulva or labia," and further interprets that to mean having but a
>blank[2] expanse of skin down there. I don't imagine there are more than
>one or two people like that.
>Actually, that was my first thought on reading the subject line, and the
>image persisted until I saw Kerro's actual post even though I quickly
>realized "that can't be right."
Maybe it's something simular to the male bad guy in the book The Bad Place -
where he had testicles but no penis. He just peed thru the sac. (Book is very
weird for those who haven't read it - brother rapes sister and their kid is a
full-fledged hermaphrodite, then this kid uses their own sperm to get themself
pregnant and has 4 kids with various psychic powers.) It's just a matter of
having no true vaginal canal but there's still something there.
The reason I have an easier time imagining it I guess besides the fact I'm
female is because the doctors inform me my vagina stopped growing when I was 3,
making me abnormally small - not that I can't have sex, it's just a little
tight. I also cannot find that "flower" thing that women are suppose to have.
It's just smooth. So the way I imagine a woman having no vagina is that she has
a tiny hole of some sort, the start of a canal, but it just never grew bigger
then say - a pin or a straw.
Just my 2 cents.
~Jami JoAnne Russell~
http://users.50megs.com/gambitsgal/intro.html
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Portal/2450/jami1.html
http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=gambitsjami
Lara Hopkins
> The reason I have an easier time imagining it I guess besides the fact I'm
> female is because the doctors inform me my vagina stopped growing when I
> was 3, making me abnormally small
You are Bailey/Amy, and I claim my two-fifty.
Lara
--
"It's just that I am not attracted to cows.
I cannot contemplate sex with a cow.
Any involvement beyond sex is obviously right out."
- Daniel Ucko
JamiJo
without a vagina can become pregnant. I assume it's because she still has some
sort of opening where sperm can enter without penetration but it's got my human
sexuality teacher utterly confounded. Is there any documentation of this
happening? Preferably on the web so I can just e-mail her the links?
>You are Bailey/Amy, and I claim my two-fifty.
>
>Lara
Okay, whatever you say.
Gerald Belton
>Oh, before I forget - I can't find the original but someone said that a woman
>without a vagina can become pregnant. I assume it's because she still has some
>sort of opening where sperm can enter without penetration but it's got my human
>sexuality teacher utterly confounded. Is there any documentation of this
>happening? Preferably on the web so I can just e-mail her the links?
You assume wrong. Documentation exists, but I don't know if it is on
the web. Would you accept a reputable medical journal instead?
Verkuyl DA.
Oral conception. Impregnation via the proximal gastrointestinal tract
in a patient with an aplastic distal vagina. Case report. British
Journal of Obstetrics & Gynaecology. 95(9):933-4, 1988
Gerald "no cattle exchanged hands in composing this message" Belton
--
"While the individual man is an insolvable puzzle, in the
aggregate he becomes a mathematical certainty. You can, for
example, never foretell what any one man will do, but you can say
with precision what an average number will be up to."
Arthur Conan Doyle, _The Sign of Four_
Lizz Holmans
<gambit...@aol.comNOWAY> writes
>he reason I have an easier time imagining it I guess besides the fact I'm
>female is because the doctors inform me my vagina stopped growing when I was 3,
>tight. I also cannot find that "flower" thing that women are suppose to have.
>It's just smooth. So the way I imagine a woman having no vagina is that she has
>a tiny hole of some sort, the start of a canal, but it just never grew bigger
>then say - a pin or a straw.
I will never, ever let anyone tell me that I am giving too much
information on AFU. Do you hear me. Never. *Ever*.
Now I'm just going to write up my adventures with Margaret Rutherford
and Julian Clary in the pup tent.
Lizz 'It was just like a baby's arm with an apple in its fist--and then
you should have seen Julian's!' Holmans
--
Lizz Holmans
Mitcho
> Just my 2 cents.
Two cents too fucking much.
Mitcho
--
The Urban Redneck : red...@employees.org : Goat Hill, California
http://www.employees.org/~redneck
Ian A. York
Gerald Belton <gerald...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Verkuyl DA.
>Oral conception. Impregnation via the proximal gastrointestinal tract
>in a patient with an aplastic distal vagina. Case report. British
>Journal of Obstetrics & Gynaecology. 95(9):933-4, 1988
I've posted the text of this before, and I had thought it was archived,
but (probably for perfectly reasonable copyright reasons) it doesn't seem
to be. So, just for the record:
British Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology. September 1988, Vol. 95,
pp. 933-934
Oral conception. Impregnation via the proximal gastrointestinal tract in
a patient with an aplastic distal vagina. Case report.
Douwe A. A. Verkuyl
Case report
The patient was a 15-year-old girl employed in a local bar. She was
admitted to hospital after a knife fight involving her, a former lover and
a new boyfriend. Who exactly stabbed whom was not quite clear but all
three participants in the small war were admitted with knife injuries.,
The girl had some minor lacerations of the left hand and a single
stab-wound in the upper abdomen. Under general anaesthesia, laparotomy
was performed through an upper midline abdominal incision to reveal two
holes in the stomach. These two woulds had resulted from the single
stab-wound through the abdominal wall. The two defects were repaired in
two layers. The stomach was noted empty at the time of surgery and no
gastric contents were seen in the abdomen. Nevertheless, the abdominal
cavity was lavaged with normal saline before closure. The condition of
the patient improved rapidly following routine postoperative care and she
was discharged home after 10 days. Precisely 278 days later the patient
was admitted again to the hospital with acute, intermittent abdominal
pain. Abdominal examination revealed a term pregnancy with a cephalic
fetal presentation. The uterus was contracting regularly and the fetal
heart was heard. Inspection of the vulva showed no vagina, only a shallow
skin dimple was present below the external urethral meatus and between the
labia minora.
An emergency lower segment caesarian section was performed under spinal
anaesthesia and a live male infant weighing 2800 g was born, with Apgar
scores of 7 and 9 at 1 and 5 minutes, respectively. On exploration,
through the nearly completely dilated cervix, it was found that the normal
uterus ended in a 2 cm deep vagina and that the vagina did not exist more
distally.
The uterus, adnexa and renal tract appeared normal. Routine closure of
the uterus and abdomen followed; a large tube drain was left in the
uterine cavity.
While closing the abdominal wall, curiosity could not be contained any
longer and the patient was interviewed with the help of a sympathetic
nursing sister. The whole story did not become completely clear during
that day but, with some subsequent inquiries, the whole saga emerged.
The patient was well aware of the fact that she had no vagina and she had
started oral experiments after disappointing attempts at conventional
intercourse.
Just before she was stabbed in the abdomen she had practiced fellatio with
her new boyfriend and was caught in the act by her former lover. The
fight with knives ensued. She had never had a period and there was no
trace of lochia after the caesarian section. She had been worried about
the increase in her abdominal size, but could not believe she was pregnant
although it had crossed her mind more often as her girth increased and as
people around her suggested that she was pregnant. She did recall several
episodes of lower abdominal pain during the previous year. The young
mother, her family, and the likely father adapted themselves rapidly to the
new situation and some cattle changed hands to prove there were no hard
feelings.
The postoperative course was uneventful and the drain was removed on the
6th day. She started complaining about lower abdominal pain 8 months
postpartum while she was still breastfeeding. An attempt was made to
construct a vagina by tunneling between the urethra and rectum. A
proximal vagina filled with old blood was found after 3-4 cm as described
by Jeffcoate (1975). The tunnel was now dilated with appropriate
instruments. It was found impossible to suture the skin of the introitus
to the wall of the proximal vagina as advocated by Jeffcoate and
criticized by others (Dewhurst 1981). A mould was constructed from a 20
cm^3 plastic syringe cylinder with the distal end removed. The mould was
fixed with nylon sutures to the labia and left in place for 2 weeks. The
patient was discharged with a few oversized cervical dilators and
instructed in their use. Follow-up was difficult, the patient was seen
only some moths later with a stenosed vagina and lower abdominal pain.
Another reconstruction was attempted though scar tissue with much the same
result.
Because she refused to have a hysterectomy and her cryptomenorrhea was
very painful, high doses of depot medroxyprogresterone were used to induce
amenorrhea. This was partly successful, but a hysterectomy become
necessary to afford her relief from crippling pain when were son was 2.5
years old. By that time the son looked very much like the legal father.
Comments
A plausible explanation for this pregnancy is that spermatozoa gained
access to the reproductive organs via the injured gastrointestinal tract.
It is known that spermatozoa do not survive long in an environment with a
low pH (Jeffcoate 1975), but it is also known that saliva has a high pH
and that a starved person does not produce acid under normal
circumstances (Bernard & Couman 1976).
It is likely that the patient became pregnant with her first or nearly
first ovulation otherwise one would expect that inspissated blood in the
uterus and salpinges would have made fertilization difficult. The fact
that the son resembled the father excludes an even more miraculous
conception.
Dr H
On Wed, 15 Nov 2000, Mitcho wrote:
}gambit...@aol.comNOWAY (JamiJo) wrote:
}
}> Just my 2 cents.
}
}Two cents too fucking much.
Your comment has been duly noted, and will be refered to the
afu moderator.
Dr H
JamiJo
>Oral conception. Impregnation via the proximal gastrointestinal tract
>in a patient with an aplastic distal vagina. Case report. British
>Journal of Obstetrics & Gynaecology. 95(9):933-4, 1988
Thanks - I'll e-mail it to Olga and see what she thinks.
JamiJo
>I will never, ever let anyone tell me that I am giving too much
>information on AFU. Do you hear me. Never. *Ever*.
Considering some of the information that is shared on here is WAY worse then
what I said, nothing can be too much here.
And as I've said before, no one forces anyone to read a post. They don't like
me they can always killfile/filter. Their loss since my information could
possibly help them visualize this. But if they don't like it, too damn bad for
them.
(And I'm still waiting for information on the ULs I posted under the subject
"And Yes, I DID try to look this up" or something of that nature. I know I was
a little bitchy but since I'm wrongly called names when asking things,
especially if they involve rape or sex.... But I'd really like to know if
anyone can find them cause my searches turn up squat.)
Viv
:(And I'm still waiting for information on the ULs I posted under the subject
:"And Yes, I DID try to look this up" or something of that nature. I know I was
:a little bitchy but since I'm wrongly called names when asking things,
:especially if they involve rape or sex.... But I'd really like to know if
:anyone can find them cause my searches turn up squat.)
Well, I hadn't replied to that one because I hadn't hear either of
your stories. Considering that was negative data I hadn't thought it
worth posting.
Vivienne "but I'd hate you to think I was ignoring you for any other
reason" Smythe
JamiJo
>your stories. Considering that was negative data I hadn't thought it
>worth posting.
Okay, thanks anyway. I'm wondering if I'm using the wrong keywords. I've looked
all over Google and Snopes and anything else I can think of.
wej3715
: Not only can a woman lack a vagina, such a vagina-less woman can become
: pregnant.
Naturally? Or does it take AI?
Eric Johnson
AFol...@webtv.net
Nah, the current generation of artificial intelligences wouldn't be
especially interested, even if the hardware problems could be solved.
Alan "product of a fiendish experiment in Artificial S^H...nah, too cheap a
self-shot" Follett
wej3715
: In article <8uvdqe$koc$2...@news.tamu.edu>,
: wej...@scully.tamu.edu (wej3715) wrote:
: > Ian A. York (iay...@panix.com) wrote:
:
: > : Not only can a woman lack a vagina, such a vagina-less woman can become
: > : pregnant.
: >
: > Naturally? Or does it take AI?
: >
:
: Nah, the current generation of artificial intelligences wouldn't be
: especially interested, even if the hardware problems could be solved.
:
: Alan "product of a fiendish experiment in Artificial S^H...nah, too cheap a
: self-shot" Follett
I figured I had set myself up on that one.
A bit over 20 years ago, a friend of mine was taking a class in Artificial
Intelligence. One evening, he was discussing the subject with someone
else in the other person's dorm room. In the middle of the conversation,
the classmate's roommate came in. When he heard they were discussing AI,
he got really upset that the computer science people had classes in AI
but the Animal Science department didn't.
Eric Johnson
Charles A Lieberman
Ian A. York
>Ian "the fact that the son resembled the father excludes an even more
>miraculous conception" York
Of course, in the case of the most miraculous conception on record, the
Son rather closely resembled the Father. Of course, so do we all.
Charles "Stop me if I BOR you." Lieberman
--
Charles A. Lieberman | "Don't poop on the homeless!"
Brooklyn, New York, USA | -Meredith Robbins
http://calieber.tripod.com/home.html
No relation.
Joseph M. Shair
yvro...@voicenet.com says...
~14 Nov 2000 14:29:59 GMT
~Ian A. York
~>Ian "the fact that the son resembled the father excludes an even more
~>miraculous conception" York
~
~Of course, in the case of the most miraculous conception on record, the
~Son rather closely resembled the Father. Of course, so do we all.
~
~Charles "Stop me if I BOR you." Lieberman
~
Parthenogenesis produces only female offspring. [1]
Joe "Not a ...." Shair
1: Got into a *lot* of trouble when I concluded my
9th grade essay on parthenogenesis with "The only
recorded case of parthenogenesis in higher mammals
must be discounted as the offspring was male."