Superman's age?
jonny...@my-deja.com
20's. But what about when he was actually born to when he hit earth?
How long did it take for his "craft" to get here. As far away as
Krypton is suppposed to be from here, it seems like it would have taken
a grip of time. Even traveling at light speed and through worm holes
and what not.
And what about when Krypton exploded. Has that image reached earth yet?
You know how people say that if a star went super nova that we wouldn't
see it for millions of years or something. Or that by the time we
actually see some stars, they have been out for a long time. So, what
I'm thinking is Kal-el could theoretically "see" his planet explode
couldn't he. Even though it happened when he was a babe, he could see
it as an adult.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
GrapeApe
A planet exploding would not be visible necessarily, it could have been one
kryptonian astronomical unit on the other side of its star.
Of course, Krypton could have a rather protracted infancy.
Terence Chua
> We know Supes age from when he hit earth to now. In his middle/late
> 20's. But what about when he was actually born to when he hit earth?
> How long did it take for his "craft" to get here. As far away as
> Krypton is suppposed to be from here, it seems like it would have taken
> a grip of time. Even traveling at light speed and through worm holes
> and what not.
Under current continuity, Superman was "born" on Earth. The gestation
matrix that was fitted with the hyperdrive wasn't hatched until it
landed on Earth and found by the Kents.
Indications are that Krypton is some 40 light years or so away from
Earth and that the journey taken by Kal-El's craft took an approximately
equal length of time. The first time this was mentioned was in the
Wolfman/Perez two-book History of the DC Universe way back in 1986 just
after the Crisis, where it was implied that Krypton exploded in the
1930s or just prior to 1940 - while Kal-El's ship travelled towards
Earth, World War II, et al. all happened.
I like to think, in a sappy way, that the intent was for Krypton to have
exploded in 1938 as a nod to the debut of Superman in that year.
> And what about when Krypton exploded. Has that image reached earth yet?
> You know how people say that if a star went super nova that we wouldn't
> see it for millions of years or something. Or that by the time we
> actually see some stars, they have been out for a long time. So, what
> I'm thinking is Kal-el could theoretically "see" his planet explode
> couldn't he. Even though it happened when he was a babe, he could see
> it as an adult.
Yes, it has - there was some story in Action years ago dealing with
this. Other people will remember it better than I do, since I wasn't
reading the Superman books regularly back then.
Outracing the light rays of exploding Krypton is an old trick, done by
Supes pre-Crisis, even, in the 1940s. That's how he got to see the
circumstances of his birth and Krypton's explosion and learn about his
alien heritage.
----------
Terence Chua kh...@tim.org
WWW: http://www.khaosworks.org
KhaOS@TinyTIM: telnet://yay.tim.org:5440
"Love ain't a dying art as far as I can see..."
Gérard Morvan
> Yes, it has - there was some story in Action years ago dealing with
> this. Other people will remember it better than I do, since I wasn't
> reading the Superman books regularly back then.
>
reached Earth, and caused Supes to fell ill, at which point he retreated
into a cave, where he met and fought Man-Bat. Later on, the
pre-Hawkworld version of Hawkman II (Katar Hol) led him to the remnants
of Krypton. The problem was solved.
Gérard Morvan
Jeremiah Lee McVay
jonny...@my-deja.com wrote:
> We know Supes age from when he hit earth to now. In his middle/late
> 20's.
I thought he was more like mid 30's.
~JLM
Blaine Manyluk
<39F2F8...@club-internet.fr>...
> Terence Chua wrote:
Also Action #489, from 1978. In that pre-Crisis issue, the super-
light from Krypton reaches Earth. Evidently Krypton had its own kind
of light, too, which could also be super-powered on Earth! Brainiac
forced Superman to look at the explosion, causing him to be light-
sensitive, and when he did see bright light, went into violent rages.
Naturally, Brainiac could control Superman's behavior during such
times. Finally, Superman exposed himself to a supernova, which
restored him to normal, but not before it super-charged him. Supes
at that point could breathe fire, and was strong enough to smash
through Brainiac's force-field.
Another good old Pre-Crisis Wretched Excess (TM).
======================================================================
[To reply, remove the S's from my address, and change the R's to N's.]
An infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of typewriters
will eventually come up with a good _Voyager_ script.
Orion
>> 20's.
>
>I thought he was more like mid 30's.
it's 34. Regardless, look at the way he's drawn, the thickness of his
neck, the set of his chin. That's a man whose *at least* in his late
30's. Wally and Kyle are supposed to be in their twenties. Superman is
definately older than them. As a side note, Batman ought to be about
45 (in my brain).
GrapeApe
>it's 34. Regardless, look at the way he's drawn, the thickness of his
>neck, the set of his chin. That's a man whose *at least* in his late
>30's. Wally and Kyle are supposed to be in their twenties. Superman is
>definately older than them. As a side note, Batman ought to be about
>45 (in my brain).
Superman is almost perpetually old enough to run for President.
Marcus O Murchu
>
>
So, out of sheer interest a non-american poster asks what age are american
citizens allowed to run for president at?
I more or less agree with the ages. I find it a bit hard to suspend my
disbelief to allow for the high level of respect the other heroes offer
superman and to some extent batman unless theyre viewed as a bit older.
Although personally I view them both as in their late 30's/early 40's.
Marcus
Kaspar Hauser
>>> We know Supes age from when he hit earth to now. In his middle/late
>>> 20's.
>>
>>I thought he was more like mid 30's.
> According to the trading card set from years and years ago, I think
>it's 34. Regardless, look at the way he's drawn, the thickness of his
>neck, the set of his chin. That's a man whose *at least* in his late
>30's. Wally and Kyle are supposed to be in their twenties. Superman is
>definately older than them. As a side note, Batman ought to be about
>45 (in my brain).
The timelines DC has printed in some recent SF&Os explicitly state
that Supes has been around for either 11 or 12 years (I don't have it
handy). It's hard to believe that he made his first appearance when he
was only 18 or so, and that Lois Lane (who's around his age) was
already a star reporter before she was 20.
I've always had 34 stuck in my mind for some reason, with Batman in
the same range (maybe a little older, but not that much -- still mid
to late 30's).
Which brings up a question about Nightwing... If he was Robin when he
was eight, and Batman's been around for 11 or 12 years, then he's not
even 20, which doesn't make sense. Or am I wrong about him being Robin
at age 8?
KH
Todd VerBeek
Our friend Marcus O Murchu said:
>So, out of sheer interest a non-american poster asks what age are american
>citizens allowed to run for president at?
They must be 35 when they take office, be US citizens by birth, and have
lived in the US for the previous 14 years. (The age limit for the Senate is
30, and for the House of Representative it's 25. There is no age limit for
the Supreme Court.)
Of course the age limit was somehow waived for Prez Rickard, the country's
first teen president, who appeared in a short-lived DC series in the early
1970's. I assume he lived on a parallel Earth.
Cheers, Tdd
--
I'm an optimist: the glass is empty, but maybe =someday= it'll be half full.
GrapeApe
>citizens allowed to run for president at?
Old enough to have dealt with the responsibility of having a kid, young enough
to have yet another or your first if you so desire.
Marcus O Murchu
through some panels from it on one site -looked like a hideous, hideous
concept. I doubt ANYONE in the comic industry could do anything useful or
interesting with that one.
Thanks for the info by the way.
Marcus
Thomas Galloway
Todd VerBeek <TVer...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>Of course the age limit was somehow waived for Prez Rickard, the country's
>first teen president, who appeared in a short-lived DC series in the early
>1970's. I assume he lived on a parallel Earth.
First issue of Prez established that there was a Constitutional amendment
lowering the various ages of holding office to 18. As for the parallel
Earth bit, well, let's just say that a lot of people try to ignore that
final issue of the first Supergirl series where Prez guest stars, is
treated by Kara as the President, and no parallel Earth travel is mentioned.
tyg t...@panix.com
Thomas Galloway
Marcus O Murchu <marcus...@aol.com> wrote:
>I've heard of Prez (sadly) - I've even had the horrid experience of looking
>through some panels from it on one site -looked like a hideous, hideous
>concept. I doubt ANYONE in the comic industry could do anything useful or
>interesting with that one.
Care to place a large wager on that? :-)
(Neil Gaiman did a very nice Prez story during the Sandman run)
tyg t...@panix.com
Thomas Galloway
Jeremiah Lee McVay <jlm...@is9.nyu.edu> wrote:
>jonny...@my-deja.com wrote:
>> We know Supes age from when he hit earth to now. In his middle/late 20's.
>I thought he was more like mid 30's.
Depends on which Superman you're talking about. Pre-Crisis, he was
specifically a perpetual 29 years old (or, going by his February 29th
birthday, 7 :-)). Post-Crisis, back during the Death of Superman, Clark
Kent's age was given as 34.
tyg t...@panix.com
Les Bonser
--
Les Bonser
Writer and Photographer
Las Vegas, Nevada USA
http://home.att.net/~photodoglv (Home of the PhotoDog!)
http://home.att.net/~lbonser (Personal home page including fan fiction and
toy poodle info)
"Marcus O Murchu" <marcus...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001022163222...@ng-bk1.aol.com...
> >Superman is almost perpetually old enough to run for President.
> >
> >
>
> So, out of sheer interest a non-american poster asks what age are american
> citizens allowed to run for president at?
>
Kryptonkid
Jeremiah Lee McVay <jlm...@is9.nyu.edu> wrote in message
news:39F3108D...@is9.nyu.edu...
>
> jonny...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > We know Supes age from when he hit earth to now. In his middle/late
> > 20's.
>
> I thought he was more like mid 30's.
Going by the 12 year timeline, he would be 37 now (became Superman at age
25).
--
Ben Grose krypt...@bigfoot.com
http://www.bigfoot.com/~kryptonkid
Bush or Gore? Vote!
http://cgi.dreamscape.com/throb/gore_vs_bush/
A.Patyk
Kaspar Hauser wrote in message
<4ck6vsc68job2v714...@4ax.com>...
This is one of those things that we as fans should just let go of and forget
about. That allows a character like Dick Grayson to grow up and become
Nightwing without affecting the age of Batman. I mean, who really cares?
All we need to know is that time passed and Robin grew up.
Kaspar Hauser
wrote:
That's like those sitcoms where the mother has a baby one season, and
the next season the kid's seven years old.
Well, if Meredith Baxter-Birney was OK with it, so am I.
The question remains, though. Am I wrong in thinking Robin was eight
when he started? Or did I hallucinate it??
KH
Thomas Galloway
GrapeApe <grap...@aol.comjunk> wrote:
>>Depends on which Superman you're talking about. Pre-Crisis, he was
>>specifically a perpetual 29 years old (or, going by his February 29th
>>birthday, 7 :-)). Post-Crisis, back during the Death of Superman, Clark
>>Kent's age was given as 34.
>You are telling me that was Curt Swans rendering of a 29 year old? He was
>pushing forty!
Your opinion; there were several times when it was specifically stated that
Superman was under 30. One was shortly after he started working for WGBS
and was assigned to cover a hippie protest due to his age. Latest I can
think of was the Cary Bates written two-parter in Action featuring a
temporarily time-displaced Jonathan Kent where a hippie type energized by
the same power which brought Jonathan to the present (and altered folks
memories so they though he'd been alive all that time) order all over 30
types out of Metropolis.
tyg t...@panix.com
GrapeApe
>through some panels from it on one site -looked like a hideous, hideous
>concept. I doubt ANYONE in the comic industry could do anything useful or
>interesting with that one.
>
For some reason I am reminded of " A New Kid on the Block" in Eisner's Minor
Miracles.
Didn't Grandenetti do Prez the first time around? What did he do in the Eisner
shop way back when.
GrapeApe
Todd VerBeek
>>through some panels from it on one site -looked like a hideous, hideous
>>concept. I doubt ANYONE in the comic industry could do anything useful or
>>interesting with that one.
Our friend GrapeApe said:
>For some reason I am reminded of " A New Kid on the Block" in Eisner's Minor
>Miracles.
>Didn't Grandenetti do Prez the first time around?
Yes, he was the credited artist; Joe Simon was the writer.
>What did he do in the Eisner shop way back when.
Cheers, Todd
Orion
>that Supes has been around for either 11 or 12 years (I don't have it
>handy). It's hard to believe that he made his first appearance when he
>was only 18 or so, and that Lois Lane (who's around his age) was
>already a star reporter before she was 20.
is in his early 40's, and Batmans in his mid to late 40's.
Consider this: James Bond has always been played by a man in his late
40's to early 50's. Gives you a sense of scale.
>I've always had 34 stuck in my mind for some reason, with Batman in
>the same range (maybe a little older, but not that much -- still mid
>to late 30's).
Yeah, that number's bandied about a lot (there was an ep. of Night
Court where Harry turns 40, and he says "I'm older than Spiderman!"
and Mac responds "Oh, sir... You're younger than Superman!" To which
Harry responds, "Nah, he's still in his 30's"), but I agree with you,
it just doesn't 'feel' right.
>Which brings up a question about Nightwing... If he was Robin when he
>was eight, and Batman's been around for 11 or 12 years, then he's not
>even 20, which doesn't make sense. Or am I wrong about him being Robin
>at age 8?
I think maybe Bruce took him in at age 8, but I'm pretty sure he
wasn't the Boy Wonder until he was at least 13 (I hope).
Gérard Morvan
>
> I've heard of Prez (sadly) - I've even had the horrid experience of looking
> through some panels from it on one site -looked like a hideous, hideous
> concept. I doubt ANYONE in the comic industry could do anything useful or
> interesting with that one.
>
>
Weeeellll, Neil Gaiman did a terrific Prez story in Sandman #54. And it
worked. Remember that Neil was also the guy who brought back Brother
Power (in a Swamp Thing Annual). And it was also great, and it also
worked. That man can turn _anything_ into gold, I think.
Gérard Morvan
jonny...@my-deja.com
suited up at 12.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Andrew Ryan Chang
>Terence Chua wrote:
>> Yes, it has - there was some story in Action years ago dealing with
>> this. Other people will remember it better than I do, since I wasn't
>> reading the Superman books regularly back then.
>>
>Action Comics #600, to be precise. Radiations from Krypton exploding
>reached Earth, and caused Supes to fell ill, at which point he retreated
>into a cave, where he met and fought Man-Bat. Later on, the
>pre-Hawkworld version of Hawkman II (Katar Hol) led him to the remnants
>of Krypton. The problem was solved.
I never bought the issues following Action #600 -- how was the
problem solved?
--
"_Lord Dimwit Flathead the Excessive_: Dimwit despised the outdoors, and
he was petrified of rain, which puddled embarrasingly on his level pate."
-Encyclopedia Frobozzica.
Marcus O Murchu
>worked. Remember that Neil was also the guy who brought back Brother
>Power (in a Swamp Thing Annual). And it was also great, and it also
>worked. That man can turn _anything_ into gold, I think.
>
>Gérard Morvan
>
>http://www.heroes.fr.fm
>
starting back to reading comics after over 10 years away from them so I only
remember the initial part of the Sandman before I stopped collecting.I'm up to
about half-way through (except due to flood damage I now have to buy vol. 2 and
the Swamp Thing Love and Death collection again, but that's another story)When
I get to the volume reprinting no.54 I will be interested to see what Neil did
with Prez. As for Brother Power, if he can do something with that SAD
(unfortunately, this keyboard doesn't do 10 foot high letters to drive home my
feeling there!) concept I will be amazed. Not being cruel or anything here, but
It is just a wee bit noticeable that Joe Simon's later concepts were nearly
uniformly dreadful.
Marcus
Peter Bruells
>> So, out of sheer interest a non-american poster asks what age are american
>> citizens allowed to run for president at?
> Old enough to have dealt with the responsibility of having a kid, young enough
> to have yet another or your first if you so desire.
Is that in case the president fools around with interns?
Jeremiah Lee McVay
jonny...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I thought Dick became Robin when he was 12. He trained before but
> suited up at 12.
>
Am I mistaken when I remember that Dick actually performed in the circus
with his family before they were killed? Maybe that is no longer in
continuity, but if it is, and he was 8 when he went to live with Bruce
he would have been a pretty young circus acrobat... so these age issues
may just never be resolved...
~JLM
Kaspar Hauser
You know what? I may have been thinking of Wally West. Mark Waid
definitely stated Wally was 8 when he became Kid Flash. Although Wally
was already 20 in his first Flash issue, so maybe Waid was just
mistaken, or the twelve year timeline should actually be longer, like
fifteen.
Or not. What do I know?
KH
Marcus O Murchu
asked. Forgot it was election time in the states when I did :)
Marcus
Stephen Robinson
>The question remains, though. Am I wrong in thinking Robin was eight
>when he started? Or did I hallucinate it??
>
It was mentioned back in TITANS that Dick was 8 when he first put on the tights
but he's never actually been depicted as being that young as Robin. Check out
DETECTIVE #38. He's at least 12.
He really can't be much younger than that. The whole idea of Robin is one that
fails to work outside of giant typewriters and bad guys who would rather smash
a pie in your face than the butt of a gun, but Batman becomes a lunatic for
throwing an 8 year old in the path of bullets. A child that age probably
couldn't even throw a punch that would connect with much force. No, Dick was 12
or 13. Thirteen is better and it puts him in his early 20s now with not much
stretching of the 12 year timeline or something like that.
______________________________________
Stephen Robinson
"What we need is a female victim of sudden death."
-Colin Clive, BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN
Stephen Robinson
>Date: 10/23/2000 4:28 AM !!!First Boot!!!
> I agree. The numbers just don't work out that way. In my mind, Clark
>is in his early 40's, and Batmans in his mid to late 40's.
>
Batman could not do what he does at that age - especially after 20 years of
abuse to his body. Even Michael Jordan retired before he hit the big 4-0.
>Consider this: James Bond has always been played by a man in his late
>40's to early 50's. Gives you a sense of scale.
No, that was Elderly Bond (Roger Moore) - the worst Bond who appeared in the
worst movies (well, except for Boring Bond - Timothy Dalton).
The Real Bond (Sean Connery) was in his early 30s when he made Dr. No (31-32, I
think) and 37 when he quit for the first time. Compare the films made during
this period to DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER and NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN - or, as I call
the, TOUPEES ON PARADE.
Stephen Robinson
>You know what? I may have been thinking of Wally West. Mark Waid
>definitely stated Wally was 8 when he became Kid Flash. Although Wally
>was already 20 in his first Flash issue, so maybe Waid was just
>mistaken, or the twelve year timeline should actually be longer, like
>fifteen.
>
>Or not. What do I know?
My advice: Ignore the hell out of time or continuity when it comes to the
Flashes. When did Barry Allen die in the DCU? Three years? Five years? When did
Wally become the Flash? Let's assume that Kyle has been GL for a little over a
year DCU time (that would allow his his "green" - sorry - attitude in the
superhero biz).
Even if we say Wally is 22 and has been the Flash for two years (yes, yes, I
know, Impulse - let's ignore that, as well), he couldn't have become Kid Flash
until he was 12 or 13. No way. No how.
Of course, I saw ignore the timeline because at the current rate of
compression, Barry would have been The Flash for about as long as The Spice
Girls were popular.
Stephen Robinson
>You are telling me that was Curt Swans rendering of a 29 year old? He was
>pushing forty!
Ever since Byrne revamped Supes, Clark *has* resembled a man in his late '20s,
early '30s. I agree, he always looked far more mature before.
Stephen Robinson
>Action Comics #600, to be precise. Radiations from Krypton exploding
>>reached Earth, and caused Supes to fell ill, at which point he retreated
>>into a cave, where he met and fought Man-Bat. Later on, the
>>pre-Hawkworld version of Hawkman II (Katar Hol) led him to the remnants
>>of Krypton. The problem was solved.
>
> I never bought the issues following Action #600 -- how was the
>problem solved?
>
It wasn't. Hawkman (a Thanagarian spy and traitor actually - yeah, right) took
Superman to Krypton for no sane reason I can discern ("The radiation from this
planet is killing you - so let's take you closer to the source! Here, smoke
some more of this! It's great stuff!"). Superman had a wacked-out hallucination
and then headed back home. Or something like that.
I did love the Mignola art, though.
Orion
>definitely stated Wally was 8 when he became Kid Flash. Although Wally
>was already 20 in his first Flash issue, so maybe Waid was just
>mistaken, or the twelve year timeline should actually be longer, like
>fifteen.
(don't have time to look it up).
Orion
>>is in his early 40's, and Batmans in his mid to late 40's.
>>
>Batman could not do what he does at that age - especially after 20 years of
>abuse to his body. Even Michael Jordan retired before he hit the big 4-0.
(in my opinion). I'd rather Bruce's age reflects his personality
(grouchy) than the reality of his physical condition. I kind of
consider him like Maximus from GLADIATOR. Old(er), but makes up for
with skill, cunning, and meanness.
>>Consider this: James Bond has always been played by a man in his late
>>40's to early 50's. Gives you a sense of scale.
>
>No, that was Elderly Bond (Roger Moore) - the worst Bond who appeared in the
>worst movies (well, except for Boring Bond - Timothy Dalton).
Pierce Brosnan. Mid/lates 50's. 2nd best Bond ever (I actually
like his movies better, but it's got a lot to do with the film syles
back then... just too slow and quiet for my taste).
Orion
>>pushing forty!
>
>Ever since Byrne revamped Supes, Clark *has* resembled a man in his late '20s,
>early '30s. I agree, he always looked far more mature before.
30. Even in MOS he was pushing three-decades.
GrapeApe
>As the originator of that question about the president I'm sort of sorry
>I
>asked. Forgot it was election time in the states when I did :)
I have seen brits online become absolutely incensed for some reason when they
discover all the yanks talking about the election. or the debates.
Marcus O Murchu
should be easy! Secondly, I don't pretend to have a great knowledge of US
politics, from what little I have seen the recent campaigns over there are all
very dirty though. Anyway, I happen to believe that the idea that we as
individuals really have any political power is very much an illusion except in
rare and well-defined occasions.
Marcus O Murchadha
Stephen Robinson
> Realism is not as important as consistency and character, in comics
>(in my opinion). I'd rather Bruce's age reflects his personality
>(grouchy) than the reality of his physical condition. I kind of
>consider him like Maximus from GLADIATOR. Old(er), but makes up for
>with skill, cunning, and meanness.
Russell Crowe isn't yet 40.
> Pierce Brosnan. Mid/lates 50's. 2nd best Bond ever (I actually
>like his movies better, but it's got a lot to do with the film syles
>back then... just too slow and quiet for my taste).
>
Brosnan is not yet 50 (47), and he plans on retiring before he turns 50.
fan
Stephen Robinson wrote:
> >From: Kaspar Hauser
>
> >The question remains, though. Am I wrong in thinking Robin was eight
> >when he started? Or did I hallucinate it??
> >
>
> It was mentioned back in TITANS that Dick was 8 when he first put on the tights
> but he's never actually been depicted as being that young as Robin. Check out
> DETECTIVE #38. He's at least 12.
>
> He really can't be much younger than that. The whole idea of Robin is one that
> fails to work outside of giant typewriters and bad guys who would rather smash
> a pie in your face than the butt of a gun, but Batman becomes a lunatic for
> throwing an 8 year old in the path of bullets. A child that age probably
> couldn't even throw a punch that would connect with much force. No, Dick was 12
> or 13. Thirteen is better and it puts him in his early 20s now with not much
> stretching of the 12 year timeline or something like that.
I don't know. I can see your point, but I have to
wonder: have you ever been to the circus? Right
here in the real world, extremely young kids work
as circus acrobats, and they pull off truly amazing
feats of strength as well as agility. Armed with a
few smoke pellets and clad in a bulletproof vest,
it's not *comic-book* implausible to have a kid
survive a crimefighting career. (Granted, it's still
*real-world* implausible, but so is *Bruce* not
getting offed long before he adopted Dick in the
first place . . .)
GrapeApe
I think many campaigns secretly count on the apathy vote bigtime come election
time. Some demographics will always vote, and rather predictably, and sometimes
they are practically the only voters. Then those that don't vote complain.
Marcus O Murchu
At the risk of going off-topic and having us both net-copped by someone or
other I will respond by saying I don't vote but I don't really complain
either, I view most of the parties in most countries as being very similar - I
shall give an example, I live in Britain, although as I said I'm not British,
so anyway three years the good people of that sceptered isle decide to get rid
of the Conservative party In favour of Labour. Hurrah, much rejoicing, an end
to the nonsense of, "greed being good", which the former party was forever
dinning into our ears, and a return to some social values. Cut to today, the
health service of Britain, once the pride of Europe is still in tatters,
economies better left nationalised are still privatised, e.g. the railway
system here, which has turned into a dangerous and unsafe menace to life and
limb.The momentum of history is not so easy to stand against, in order to enact
all their policies Labour (or any comparable govt.) would need to be able to
fundamentally change the world around them, all change tends to happen anyway
slowly and gradually if you look at history and politicans are not the prime
movers of that change as much as they would like to think
they are. One more poncy, pretentious quote to go with my later one as I'm
editing this after initially writing it :) Hotspur in Shakespeare's Henry IV,
"I can call up spirits from the deep," answer, "so can I, but will they come?",
now the wording is wrong on that but the sentiment that I can say I can change
everything but can I really perfectly illustrates my position. Anyway, as
Voltaire said, "Everything is for the best in this best of possible worlds",
and yes I know that was satire and two anyone who wants to correct my quote
please do :) Thus ends Marcus's pretentious misquotes and attempts at being
intelligent! On a comic book note this reminds me of the Uncle Sam comic from a
couple of years ago which I was reading earlier on in the day.
Marcus
Marcus
"We seem to have lost, we have not lost.To refuse to fight would have been to
lose, to fight is to win, we have kept faith with the past and handed a
tradition to the future."
Patrick Henry Pearse (1879-1916)
David Serchay
Vice President doesn't he have to be at least 35?
Dave
--
David Serchay
a013...@bc.seflin.org
Bob Hughes
>In article <20001022205312...@ng-bj1.aol.com>,
>GrapeApe <grap...@aol.comjunk> wrote:
>>>Depends on which Superman you're talking about. Pre-Crisis, he was
>>>specifically a perpetual 29 years old (or, going by his February 29th
>>>birthday, 7 :-)). Post-Crisis, back during the Death of Superman, Clark
>>>Kent's age was given as 34.
>>What bull.
>>You are telling me that was Curt Swans rendering of a 29 year old? He was
>>pushing forty!
>
>Your opinion; there were several times when it was specifically stated that
>Superman was under 30. One was shortly after he started working for WGBS
>and was assigned to cover a hippie protest due to his age. Latest I can
>think of was the Cary Bates written two-parter in Action featuring a
>temporarily time-displaced Jonathan Kent where a hippie type energized by
>the same power which brought Jonathan to the present (and altered folks
>memories so they though he'd been alive all that time) order all over 30
>types out of Metropolis.
>
>tyg t...@panix.com
You're referring to the Julie Schwartz Superman. The Mort Weisinger
Superman was pushing 50 by the time Julie took over.
Bob Hughes
Who Drew Superman?-Superman artists from the golden and silver age profiled at:
http://members.ttlc.net/~bobhughes/superart.htm
"Information is not knowledge; knowledge is not wisdom; wisdom is not truth; truth is not beauty; beauty is not love; love is not music. Music is best."
Frank Zappa
Orion
>>(in my opinion). I'd rather Bruce's age reflects his personality
>>(grouchy) than the reality of his physical condition. I kind of
>>consider him like Maximus from GLADIATOR. Old(er), but makes up for
>>with skill, cunning, and meanness.
>
>
>>like his movies better, but it's got a lot to do with the film syles
>>back then... just too slow and quiet for my taste).
>
last year, and it said he was 56.
GrapeApe
>that
>>Superman was under 30
I think they forgot to tell Curt Swan, who almost consistantly drew him a
decade older.
--cut and paste to adopt this sig file---
Make Deja a useful Usenet Archive again!
Todd VerBeek
>>>(in my opinion). I'd rather Bruce's age reflects his personality
>>>(grouchy) than the reality of his physical condition. I kind of
>>>consider him like Maximus from GLADIATOR. Old(er), but makes up for
>>>with skill, cunning, and meanness.
>>> Pierce Brosnan. Mid/lates 50's. 2nd best Bond ever (I actually
>>>like his movies better, but it's got a lot to do with the film syles
>>>back then... just too slow and quiet for my taste).
>>Brosnan is not yet 50 (47), and he plans on retiring before he turns 50.
Our friend Orion said:
> One of us has our facts wrong. I read an interview with Brosnon
>last year, and it said he was 56.
For what it's worth, the Internet Movie DataBase lists his date of birth as
1953 (and I find that credible).
Cheers, Todd
--
I'm an optimist: the glass is empty, but maybe =someday= it'll be half full.
Eminence
<rf...@SPAMSUCKSmindspring.com> consumed critical bandwidth to proclaim:
>On Sun, 22 Oct 2000 18:08:20 GMT, oki...@look.ca (Orion) wrote:
>
>>>> We know Supes age from when he hit earth to now. In his middle/late
>>>> 20's.
>>>
>>>I thought he was more like mid 30's.
>> According to the trading card set from years and years ago, I think
>>it's 34. Regardless, look at the way he's drawn, the thickness of his
>>neck, the set of his chin. That's a man whose *at least* in his late
>>30's. Wally and Kyle are supposed to be in their twenties. Superman is
>>definately older than them. As a side note, Batman ought to be about
>>45 (in my brain).
>
>The timelines DC has printed in some recent SF&Os explicitly state
>that Supes has been around for either 11 or 12 years (I don't have it
>handy). It's hard to believe that he made his first appearance when he
>was only 18 or so, and that Lois Lane (who's around his age) was
>already a star reporter before she was 20.
>
>I've always had 34 stuck in my mind for some reason, with Batman in
>the same range (maybe a little older, but not that much -- still mid
>to late 30's).
>
>Which brings up a question about Nightwing... If he was Robin when he
>was eight, and Batman's been around for 11 or 12 years, then he's not
>even 20, which doesn't make sense. Or am I wrong about him being Robin
>at age 8?
I believe part of the Byrne retcon in "Man of Steel" established that
Superman made his first public appearance at the age of 25, rather than at
18, as in pre-Crisis timelines. Similarly, although I have recollection of
Grayson stating that he'd played the role of Robin "since I was eight,"
this may have been retconned so that Dick didn't take on that role until he
was 12.
Eminence
_______________________________
Usenet: Global Village of the Damned
Orion
>1953 (and I find that credible).
Hmm... I do to. I was kind of surprised when I read his age.
When did Remington Steel air? If he was in his mid 30's in the early
80's, then he's 50+ now. Sure it wasn't '43? That'd make him 57, which
works out with the numbers I read.
Terence Chua
> Superman made his first public appearance at the age of 25, rather than
> at
> 18, as in pre-Crisis timelines. Similarly, although I have recollection
> of
> Grayson stating that he'd played the role of Robin "since I was eight,"
> this may have been retconned so that Dick didn't take on that role until
> he
> was 12.
Latest word on this is probably JLA Secret Files #3, where on page 30,
panel 4, Dick says, "I've trusted Batman with my LIFE since I was EIGHT."
So there you go.
----------
Terence Chua kh...@tim.org
WWW: http://www.khaosworks.org
KhaOS@TinyTIM: telnet://yay.tim.org:5440
"Love ain't a dying art as far as I can see..."
BHMarks
>I believe part of the Byrne retcon in "Man of Steel" established that
>Superman made his first public appearance at the age of 25, rather than
>at
>18, as in pre-Crisis timelines.
I always thought that, in the SA stories, Superman made his first appearance
*as Superman* (as opposed to Superboy) at the age of 21. There was this ginchy
story in which a young Calrk Kent, hooked up to a lie detector, in front of a
live audience, is asked if he is Superboy. He says "no," and no bells go off.
Reason: having turned 21, he has realized that he is now SuperMAN.
Of course, at other times Supes had enough control over his autonomic functions
to make a lie detector think he was lying, telling the truth, dead, or seven
different people, but that's besides the point.
As ever,
Bennet
Kaspar Hauser
Good Lord. I remember that one. I haven't read that many silver age
Superman stories, so I'm sure it was in some reprint or collection
somewhere. Any idea what the issue was, and where it might possibly
have been reprinted, just out of curiosity?
KH
Eric Gimlin
> On 28 Oct 2000 01:07:38 GMT, bhm...@aol.com (BHMarks) wrote:
> >I always thought that, in the SA stories, Superman made his first appearance
> >*as Superman* (as opposed to Superboy) at the age of 21. There was this ginchy
> >story in which a young Calrk Kent, hooked up to a lie detector, in front of a
> >live audience, is asked if he is Superboy. He says "no," and no bells go off.
> >Reason: having turned 21, he has realized that he is now SuperMAN.
> Good Lord. I remember that one. I haven't read that many silver age
> Superman stories, so I'm sure it was in some reprint or collection
> somewhere. Any idea what the issue was, and where it might possibly
> have been reprinted, just out of curiosity?
I think that was actually a bronze age Superman story, possibly one of
the new backups when they upped the page count and went to 60 cents.
That's just a vague memory, though, and I could be wrong.
Eric Gimlin
Todd VerBeek
>>1953 (and I find that credible).
Our friend Orion said:
> Hmm... I do to. I was kind of surprised when I read his age.
> When did Remington Steel air? If he was in his mid 30's in the early
>80's, then he's 50+ now.
It ran from 1982-1987, at which time he would've been 29-34. And 47 now.
>Sure it wasn't '43? That'd make him 57, which
>works out with the numbers I read.
Yes, Orion, I'm sure it said 1953. When I look up information and then
purport to correct someone with what I find, I try not to screw it up.
Cheers, Todd
--
Undecided US voters, use this handy tool for picking a president. Scan
the list and pick the first candidate who doesn't give you stomach cramps:
R.Nader (Green), A.Gore (Dem.), H.Browne (Libert.), J.Hagelin (Nat.Law),
L.Luthor (Tomorrow), G.W.Bush (Rep.), P.Buchanan (Reform), H.Phillips (Const.)
Stephen Robinson
> When did Remington Steel air?
Around '82 or so. He was just around 30. Watching those episodes, you can tell.
Orion
>panel 4, Dick says, "I've trusted Batman with my LIFE since I was EIGHT."
>
>So there you go.
it seems pretty reasonable to assume that Dick is talking about when
he went to live with Bruce, not necessarily when he starting operating
as Robin.
Orion
>> When did Remington Steel air? If he was in his mid 30's in the early
>>80's, then he's 50+ now.
>
>It ran from 1982-1987, at which time he would've been 29-34. And 47 now.
>
>>Sure it wasn't '43? That'd make him 57, which
>>works out with the numbers I read.
>
>Yes, Orion, I'm sure it said 1953. When I look up information and then
>purport to correct someone with what I find, I try not to screw it up.
No, seriously, around here I've learned to double-check with
people. There's a lot of quoting from memory and not looking it up.
Anyway, problem solved. Looks like you've got the correct info at
hand. I'm actually happy to hear it, that means Brosnan will be Bond
for many years to come!
Todd VerBeek
>>>works out with the numbers I read.
>>Yes, Orion, I'm sure it said 1953. When I look up information and then
>>purport to correct someone with what I find, I try not to screw it up.
Our friend Orion said:
> Well, excuuuuuse me!
> No, seriously, around here I've learned to double-check with
>people. There's a lot of quoting from memory and not looking it up.
Um... I =cited= the source where I had just looked it up.
Cheers, Todd
Orion
Look, I'm sorry if you feel offended by my asking if you were sure,
but it wasn't meant as a slight at your archival skills.
fan
BHMarks wrote:
> >From: Eminence greyem...@earthlink.net
>
> >I believe part of the Byrne retcon in "Man of Steel" established that
> >Superman made his first public appearance at the age of 25, rather than
> >at
> >18, as in pre-Crisis timelines.
>
> I always thought that, in the SA stories, Superman made his first appearance
> *as Superman* (as opposed to Superboy) at the age of 21. There was this ginchy
> story in which a young Calrk Kent, hooked up to a lie detector, in front of a
> live audience, is asked if he is Superboy. He says "no," and no bells go off.
> Reason: having turned 21, he has realized that he is now SuperMAN.
"It depends on what your definition of 'is' is."
al.sch...@nashville.com
Actually, I have a kind of different answer. Superman is 106 years old.
He's the same person that Philip Wylie called "Hugo Danner"---both dark-
haired, symettrically-built handsome men who can leap over tall
buildings...born in 1894. Wylie lied about his origins, obviously,
since Matilda Danner couldn't have carried a super-strong baby to full
term without little Hugo/Clark kicking his way free. But that is
more "Baker Street Irregular" type speculation...I explain this in some
detail at <a href="http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/novanote/specul.htm">
SCHROEDER'S SPECULATIONS</a>---as well as how Batman's great-
grandfather was Melville's Ishmael, how Steve Rogers was William Harper
Littlejohn's nephew, and how Ben Grimm and Hal Jordan are first cousins.
--Al
--
Al Schroeder III
al.sch...@nashville.com,
Nova Notes:
http://www.nashville.com/~Al.Schroeder/journal.htm
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Thomas Ward
<al.sch...@nashville.com> wrote in message
news:8thcc1$htm$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Actually, I have a kind of different answer. Superman is 106 years old.
> He's the same person that Philip Wylie called "Hugo Danner"---both dark-
> haired, symettrically-built handsome men who can leap over tall
> buildings...born in 1894. Wylie lied about his origins, obviously,
> since Matilda Danner couldn't have carried a super-strong baby to full
> term without little Hugo/Clark kicking his way free. But that is
> Al Schroeder III
> al.sch...@nashville.com,
> Nova Notes:
> http://www.nashville.com/~Al.Schroeder/journal.htm
>
super
powered kittens ... and Pa Danner was able to drown all but one of them
without
difficulty. It may very well be that the strength doesn't kick in until
after birth.
Personally, I prefer to think that Siegel and Shuster heard about Hugo and
came
up with the idea of a man from another planet to explain his powers. *G*
al.sch...@nashville.com
"Thomas Ward" <tdwar...@HOME.COM> wrote:
> Pa Danner's cat wasn't torn to pieces when she gave birth to a brood
of
> super
> powered kittens ... and Pa Danner was able to drown all but one of
them
> without
> difficulty. It may very well be that the strength doesn't kick in
until
> after birth.
Could be. Or it could be the whole story of Samson the cat was part of
the same lie. Because note: Prof. Danner tries to explain the super-
strength forumulae in terms of the muscles that an ant or a grasshopper
has. No REAL biochemist would be fool enough to explain an ant's
lifting fifty times its own weight in those terms---he would know it
was the result of the cube-square law. That a mansize ant wouldn't be
able to lift a locomotive over its head...in fact a mansize ant
wouldn't be able to stand up, supporting its own weight, on those
spindly legs.
>
> Personally, I prefer to think that Siegel and Shuster heard about
Hugo and
> came
> up with the idea of a man from another planet to explain his powers.
*G*
Hah!!! We could split into two "schools"---the Alienists and the
Serumists...---Al *Grin*
--
Al Schroeder III
al.sch...@nashville.com,
Nova Notes:
http://www.nashville.com/~Al.Schroeder/journal.htm
Thomas Galloway
>Actually, I have a kind of different answer. Superman is 106 years old.
Well, there was that pre-Crisis story in Action, I believe in the #370s,
which had Kal-El's rocket enter a dimensional warp and land on a planet
in said other dimension. He lived there for 100 years their time, was
rejuvenated by his decendant back to babyhood, put back in the rocket,
sent back through the warp, and then landed on Earth. Tests on the rocket
remains by Superman showed it at over 100 years old.
>detail at <a href="http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/novanote/specul.htm">
>SCHROEDER'S SPECULATIONS</a>---as well as how Batman's great-
>grandfather was Melville's Ishmael, how Steve Rogers was William Harper
>Littlejohn's nephew, and how Ben Grimm and Hal Jordan are first cousins.
OK, so why is Philip Jose Farmer posting under the name "Al Schroeder"? :-)
tyg t...@panix.com
Thomas Ward
<al.sch...@nashville.com> wrote in message
news:8tiqu2$ksm$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <ZIXK5.4092$a7.2...@news1.rdc1.il.home.com>,
> "Thomas Ward" <tdwar...@HOME.COM> wrote:
> > Pa Danner's cat wasn't torn to pieces when she gave birth to a brood
> of
> > super
> > powered kittens ... and Pa Danner was able to drown all but one of
> them
> > without
> > difficulty. It may very well be that the strength doesn't kick in
> until
> > after birth.
>
> Could be. Or it could be the whole story of Samson the cat was part of
> the same lie. Because note: Prof. Danner tries to explain the super-
> strength forumulae in terms of the muscles that an ant or a grasshopper
> has. No REAL biochemist would be fool enough to explain an ant's
> lifting fifty times its own weight in those terms---he would know it
> was the result of the cube-square law. That a mansize ant wouldn't be
> able to lift a locomotive over its head...in fact a mansize ant
> wouldn't be able to stand up, supporting its own weight, on those
> spindly legs.
What was the state of biochemistry in the late 1890s? Maybe he was just
using an analogy. 8-)
> > Personally, I prefer to think that Siegel and Shuster heard about
> Hugo and
> > came
> > up with the idea of a man from another planet to explain his powers.
> *G*
>
> Hah!!! We could split into two "schools"---the Alienists and the
> Serumists...---Al *Grin*
Heh heh.
Look at this way. If you don't bring up the "baby ripping its way through
its mother's womb" I won't ask why the alien baby wasn't killed by being
exposed to earthly viruses, was able to absorb the proper nutrients from
Earth food, and could breathe a foreign atmosphere unaided. 8-)
Jay Rudin
Jay Rudin
al.sch...@nashville.com
> What was the state of biochemistry in the late 1890s? Maybe he was
just
> using an analogy. 8-)
I'll forgive it of a sf writer, or a comics writer. (Wylie or Siegel.)
But a biochemist would have known, even in the 1890s.
> Heh heh.
>
> Look at this way. If you don't bring up the "baby ripping its way
through
> its mother's womb" I won't ask why the alien baby wasn't killed by
being
> exposed to earthly viruses, was able to absorb the proper nutrients
from
> Earth food, and could breathe a foreign atmosphere unaided. 8-)
Well, I've got an answer for two out of three---I think a lot of the
humanoid worlds (Barsoom, which could even crossbreed with us,
Gallifrey ditto, The People of Zenna Henderson) are actually descended
from kidnapped and genetically altered earthlings. So that answers the
nutrients and the foreign atmosphere unaided, anyway. As for the
viruses....let's just say young Clark was a VERY healthy baby,
including his immune system, and leave it at that, okay?---Al
Thomas Ward
<al.sch...@nashville.com> wrote in message
news:8tlhha$sqp$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> > What was the state of biochemistry in the late 1890s? Maybe he was
> just
> > using an analogy. 8-)
>
> I'll forgive it of a sf writer, or a comics writer. (Wylie or Siegel.)
> But a biochemist would have known, even in the 1890s.
Maybe Wylie misunderstood the explanation. Who gave it to him?
Hugo Danner? Or some third party person who doesn't understand
science?
> > Heh heh.
> >
> > Look at this way. If you don't bring up the "baby ripping its way
> through
> > its mother's womb" I won't ask why the alien baby wasn't killed by
> being
> > exposed to earthly viruses, was able to absorb the proper nutrients
> from
> > Earth food, and could breathe a foreign atmosphere unaided. 8-)
>
> Well, I've got an answer for two out of three---I think a lot of the
> humanoid worlds (Barsoom, which could even crossbreed with us,
> Gallifrey ditto, The People of Zenna Henderson) are actually descended
> from kidnapped and genetically altered earthlings. So that answers the
> nutrients and the foreign atmosphere unaided, anyway. As for the
> viruses....let's just say young Clark was a VERY healthy baby,
> including his immune system, and leave it at that, okay?---Al
Barsoomians never crossbred with normal human beings. John Carter
was an immortal mutant ... possibly an offshoot of the Barsoomian race
who came to Earth centuries ago. Remember, John Carter's original body
never made the journey to Barsoom-- he mentally creates a second body
that travels to Barsoom. Ulysses Paxton aka Vad Varo was never shown
to have reproduced with his Martian Princess.
Never heard of the People of Zenna Henderson ... wait? Are those the Amish
people who have super powers?
And Galifrey had a thriving civiilzation before humanity even existed.
So why didn't the super powerful alien Clark not break Ma Kent's neck when
she tried to burp him? 8-)
Kryptonkid
Kaspar Hauser <rf...@SPAMSUCKSmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8hkkvs4j744svphpp...@4ax.com...
> Good Lord. I remember that one. I haven't read that many silver age
> Superman stories, so I'm sure it was in some reprint or collection
> somewhere. Any idea what the issue was, and where it might possibly
> have been reprinted, just out of curiosity?
I believe it was in The Greatest Superman Stories Ever Told.
--
Ben Grose krypt...@bigfoot.com
http://www.bigfoot.com/~kryptonkid
Bush or Gore? Vote!
http://cgi.dreamscape.com/throb/gore_vs_bush/
al.sch...@nashville.com
> Maybe Wylie misunderstood the explanation. Who gave it to him?
> Hugo Danner? Or some third party person who doesn't understand
> science?
The main witness who could have imparted the story to Wylie would be
Professor Hardin, to whom Hugo told all. A man of science, although
I'll grant you he seems more interested in South American archeology
than biochemistry.
> Barsoomians never crossbred with normal human beings. John Carter
> was an immortal mutant ... possibly an offshoot of the Barsoomian race
> who came to Earth centuries ago. Remember, John Carter's original body
> never made the journey to Barsoom-- he mentally creates a second body
> that travels to Barsoom. Ulysses Paxton aka Vad Varo was never shown
> to have reproduced with his Martian Princess.
Well, you can't have it both ways. If his Barsoomian body was entirely
Barsoomian, why could he make those huge leaps? You're absolutely right
about Ulysses Paxton---in fact, he wasn't immortal, either, unlike John
Carter. One wonders if in the mid-eighties, his Martian Princess had to
take care of a ninety-year-old man....
I could make a better case for John Carter being half-
GALLIFREYian...after all, the Gallifreyians generate new bodies every
so often, and are near-immortal. Hybrid vigor might explain why he does
it on another planet...although I have another explanation on that
Schroeder's Speculations website, having to do with what Barsoom WAS
(not Mars---you could see its moons from its poles, something you
couldn't do with Mars, and Carter implied that all Martian mountains
were pretty small, ignoring the real Nix Olympia.)--an other-
dimensional food preserve by the "kidnappers".
>
> Never heard of the People of Zenna Henderson ... wait? Are those the
Amish
> people who have super powers?
Telepathic and telekinetic powers. They lived in the Southwest after
the destruction of their home planet, Home.
>
> And Galifrey had a thriving civiilzation before humanity even existed.
Whoa. Galifreyians are TIME TRAVELLERS, remember? So if humanity was
kidnapped, genetically manipulated into several different varieties,
and then there was a Great Revolt---Gallifreyians could scatter
humanity throughout space and time, right?
>
> So why didn't the super powerful alien Clark not break Ma Kent's neck
when
> she tried to burp him? 8-)
Even in the original story in the Superman comic strip, the baby was
months old before Krypton exploded. Maybe he was beyond that.---Al
Thomas Ward
<> > Maybe Wylie misunderstood the explanation. Who gave it to him?
> > Hugo Danner? Or some third party person who doesn't understand
> > science?
>
> The main witness who could have imparted the story to Wylie would be
> Professor Hardin, to whom Hugo told all. A man of science, although
> I'll grant you he seems more interested in South American archeology
> than biochemistry.
Scientists only understand everything about all branches of science in the
comic books. I don't think biochemistry would have been a requirement
for an early 20th Century archaelogist.
> > Barsoomians never crossbred with normal human beings. John Carter
> > was an immortal mutant ... possibly an offshoot of the Barsoomian race
> > who came to Earth centuries ago. Remember, John Carter's original body
> > never made the journey to Barsoom-- he mentally creates a second body
> > that travels to Barsoom. Ulysses Paxton aka Vad Varo was never shown
> > to have reproduced with his Martian Princess.
>
> Well, you can't have it both ways. If his Barsoomian body was entirely
> Barsoomian, why could he make those huge leaps? You're absolutely right
> about Ulysses Paxton---in fact, he wasn't immortal, either, unlike John
> Carter. One wonders if in the mid-eighties, his Martian Princess had to
> take care of a ninety-year-old man....
John Carter used limited telekinesis to make his large leaps. 8-) On the
other hand, if he was the offshot of a branch of Barsoomians who had
migrated to Earth, he might have been adapted to Earth centuries ago
I'm not really sure if Vad Varo would have been immortal on Barsoom or
not .... he grew himself a second body like John Carter-- the only other
person known to have done so-- maybe he was an immortal and didn't
know it ... possibly a descendant of John Carter himself. 8-)
> >
> > And Galifrey had a thriving civiilzation before humanity even existed.
>
> Whoa. Galifreyians are TIME TRAVELLERS, remember? So if humanity was
> kidnapped, genetically manipulated into several different varieties,
> and then there was a Great Revolt---Gallifreyians could scatter
> humanity throughout space and time, right?
What are you implying? That the Gallifreyians are descendants of humanity
who discovered time travel and spread humanity throughout time and space?
> > So why didn't the super powerful alien Clark not break Ma Kent's neck
> when
> > she tried to burp him? 8-)
>
> Even in the original story in the Superman comic strip, the baby was
> months old before Krypton exploded. Maybe he was beyond that.---Al
> Al Schroeder III
If you can argue that, you can also argue that baby Hugo never felt
the need to kick his mother's stomach because his super body never
felt any discomfort in the womb. 8-)
al.sch...@nashville.com
"Thomas Ward" <tdwar...@HOME.COM> wrote:
> Scientists only understand everything about all branches of science
in the
> comic books. I don't think biochemistry would have been a requirement
> for an early 20th Century archaelogist.
Granted. But he wouldn't have MADE UP such an explanation either, out
of whole cloth.
> John Carter used limited telekinesis to make his large leaps. 8-) On
MAking him even more like J'Onn J'Onzz, John-Carter-in-reverse?
the
> other hand, if he was the offshot of a branch of Barsoomians who had
> migrated to Earth, he might have been adapted to Earth centuries ago
Well, maybe. I'd hate to be the first generation, though, barely able
to move...
> I'm not really sure if Vad Varo would have been immortal on Barsoom or
> not .... he grew himself a second body like John Carter-- the only
other
> person known to have done so-- maybe he was an immortal and didn't
> know it ... possibly a descendant of John Carter himself. 8-)
(Nodding.)Could be.
DESCENDENTS? No. Another branch of humanity, though, despite the double
hearts and other differences, since they can crossbreed with us,
according to the last incarnation of the Doctor (and I always wondered
about his granddaughter, Susan Foreman, who always struck me as more
human than Gallifreyian, anyway.) I give my theory at
http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/novanote/oct2000/worlds.htm
"The Hall of Worlds". We can't even crossbreed with chimps, the closest
animal evolutionarily to us. The idea of us crossbreeding with
something from an entirely different evolutionary "tree" is ludicrous.
Hmmm.
Although the idea that the Gallifreyians are far-future versions of
ourselves has some merit too...
> > Even in the original story in the Superman comic strip, the baby was
> > months old before Krypton exploded. Maybe he was beyond that.---Al
> > Al Schroeder III
>
> If you can argue that, you can also argue that baby Hugo never felt
> the need to kick his mother's stomach because his super body never
> felt any discomfort in the womb. 8-)
Well, I COULD---but it's a fact of life (I've raised three) that past a
certain point, you don't need to burp a kid. The other is highly
unlikely, just on SPACE considerations, IMO.
--
Al Schroeder III
Thomas Ward
<al.sch...@nashville.com> wrote in message
news:8tuboj$4v4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <MdmM5.16484$a7.4...@news1.rdc1.il.home.com>,
> "Thomas Ward" <tdwar...@HOME.COM> wrote:
>
> > Scientists only understand everything about all branches of science
> in the
> > comic books. I don't think biochemistry would have been a requirement
> > for an early 20th Century archaelogist.
>
> Granted. But he wouldn't have MADE UP such an explanation either, out
> of whole cloth.
Maybe that's the way that Hugo explained it to him. Daddy Danner never
gave Hugo the scientific background to understand his discoveries-- I don't
recall Hugo himself as having that much of a scientific bent. Or Wylie could
have gotten the story third or fourth hand and made up the bit about insects
as a "hook" to his story.
> > John Carter used limited telekinesis to make his large leaps. 8-) On
>
> MAking him even more like J'Onn J'Onzz, John-Carter-in-reverse?
No. Making J'onn like John. 8-)
> the
> > other hand, if he was the offshot of a branch of Barsoomians who had
> > migrated to Earth, he might have been adapted to Earth centuries ago
>
> Well, maybe. I'd hate to be the first generation, though, barely able
> to move...
The Barsoomians discovered anti-gravity ages ago ... they had personal
flying belts by the time of Mastermind of Mars ... they may have used
similiar devices on Earth ... and gradually tapered off ... or just modified
themselves before coming to Earth.
Alternatively, John Carter may just be a mutant human being whose altered
DNA is just similar enough to Barsoomians to permit interbreeding. 8-)
>
>
> "The Hall of Worlds". We can't even crossbreed with chimps, the closest
> animal evolutionarily to us. The idea of us crossbreeding with
> something from an entirely different evolutionary "tree" is ludicrous.
Um, how do you know we can't crossbreed with chimps? 8-)
It's been a few years, but I recall reading once in a "popular science
magazine" that a scientist theorized that a human/chimpanzee hybrid
was possible ... It's just not the sort of thing that would occur in
nature.
> Hmmm.
> Although the idea that the Gallifreyians are far-future versions of
> ourselves has some merit too...
>
> > > Even in the original story in the Superman comic strip, the baby was
> > > months old before Krypton exploded. Maybe he was beyond that.---Al
> > > Al Schroeder III
> >
> > If you can argue that, you can also argue that baby Hugo never felt
> > the need to kick his mother's stomach because his super body never
> > felt any discomfort in the womb. 8-)
>
> Well, I COULD---but it's a fact of life (I've raised three) that past a
> certain point, you don't need to burp a kid. The other is highly
> unlikely, just on SPACE considerations, IMO.
Occam's Razor. Which would be more likely? That a scientist could stumble
upon a
way to create a superman which somehow came to term or that the one
surviving infant
of a race of aliens who looked just like us would survive a multi-light year
trip through
space, not land in an ocean, and be able to survive our atmosphere,
diseases, etc?
al.sch...@nashville.com
> Maybe that's the way that Hugo explained it to him. Daddy Danner never
> gave Hugo the scientific background to understand his discoveries-- I
don't
> recall Hugo himself as having that much of a scientific bent. Or
Wylie could
> have gotten the story third or fourth hand and made up the bit about
insects
> as a "hook" to his story.
I think the last is probably the most likely. But it throws the whole
thing into suspicion.
> No. Making J'onn like John. 8-)
J'Onn C'Arter of Earth...
> The Barsoomians discovered anti-gravity ages ago ... they had personal
> flying belts by the time of Mastermind of Mars ... they may have used
> similiar devices on Earth ... and gradually tapered off ... or just
modified
> themselves before coming to Earth.
Possibly.
> Um, how do you know we can't crossbreed with chimps? 8-)
Well, not from personal experience, anyway...
> It's been a few years, but I recall reading once in a "popular science
> magazine" that a scientist theorized that a human/chimpanzee hybrid
> was possible ... It's just not the sort of thing that would occur in
> nature.
Well, that's an interesting statement. My understanding of the genetics
is that it's impossible.
> Occam's Razor. Which would be more likely? That a scientist could
stumble
> upon a
> way to create a superman which somehow came to term or that the one
> surviving infant
> of a race of aliens who looked just like us would survive a multi-
light year
> trip through
> space, not land in an ocean, and be able to survive our atmosphere,
> diseases, etc?
>
> > --
> > Al Schroeder III
I would argue the latter: but remember, I think it's self-evident that
the Kryptonians are related to us, albeit genetically altered. Nor do I
think it's at all risky to think that Jor-El programmed the rocket to
NOT land on large land masses. He would be able to survive our
atmosphere, because it's like his, obviously. As for diseases...if his
immune system is as efficient as the rest of him...no problem.
However, to someone have the baby Hugo Danner and have the strength
ONLY kick in after his birth...well, interesting idea, but how?---Al
--
Al Schroeder III
al.sch...@nashville.com,
Nova Notes:
http://www.nashville.com/~Al.Schroeder/journal.htm
Thomas Ward
<al.sch...@nashville.com> wrote in message
news:8u49vn$k6t$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > Um, how do you know we can't crossbreed with chimps? 8-)
>
> Well, not from personal experience, anyway...
>
> > It's been a few years, but I recall reading once in a "popular science
> > magazine" that a scientist theorized that a human/chimpanzee hybrid
> > was possible ... It's just not the sort of thing that would occur in
> > nature.
>
> Well, that's an interesting statement. My understanding of the genetics
> is that it's impossible.
Don't know why. How genetically dissimilar are wolves from dogs? They
can interbreed, but they're considered a separate species ... at least I
THINK
they're considered a separate species. Lions and tigers can interbreed.
Coyotes,
dogs, and wolves can all interbreed. I don't know if any or all of those
species
are more closely related than man and chimp. Any knowledgeable geneticists
out there who can say yay or nay?
(I just did some checking on chimps-- they're much bigger animals than I
thought.
Males can reach up to 5'6" in height. I did not know that.)
> > > --
> > > Al Schroeder III
>
> I would argue the latter: but remember, I think it's self-evident that
> the Kryptonians are related to us, albeit genetically altered. Nor do I
> think it's at all risky to think that Jor-El programmed the rocket to
> NOT land on large land masses. He would be able to survive our
> atmosphere, because it's like his, obviously. As for diseases...if his
> immune system is as efficient as the rest of him...no problem.
> However, to someone have the baby Hugo Danner and have the strength
> ONLY kick in after his birth...well, interesting idea, but how?---Al
> --
The pre-Crisis DC Universe had a race of aliens who were rumored to be
responsible for spreading humanoid life throughtout the cosmos. I suppose
it's possible they could have tweaked things to give rise to similiar
looking
humanoids on different planets ... but that's still more complicated than
the
scientist inventing a serum to create a super child ... Abner Danner may
have
been so clever that he designed the serum not to kick in until after birth
to
prevent the problem you pointed out...
> Al Schroeder III
GrapeApe
>species
>are more closely related than man and chimp. Any knowledgeable geneticists
>out there who can say yay or nay?
I think chimps are considerbly further down the branches of the evolutionary
tree than your typical wolf/coyote/domestic canine.
Chimps are on a different branch. Wolfs and the dogs they love are on the same
branch.
--cut and paste to adopt this sig file---
Make Deja a useful Usenet Archive again!
Dale Hicks
>
> Kaspar Hauser <rf...@SPAMSUCKSmindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:8hkkvs4j744svphpp...@4ax.com...
> > Superman stories, so I'm sure it was in some reprint or collection
> > somewhere. Any idea what the issue was, and where it might possibly
> > have been reprinted, just out of curiosity?
>
I can confirm this having read the TPB this weekend.
Superman #125, "Clark Kent's College Days"
I thought it was one of the stories that Byrne spoiled
in this foreword, but I suppose it was spoiled by this
post. So don't read the foreword before reading the
stories in this book.
--
Cranial Crusader dgh...@bellsouth.net
Magnus Itland
><al.sch...@nashville.com> wrote in message
>news:8tuboj$4v4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>> "The Hall of Worlds". We can't even crossbreed with chimps, the closest
>> animal evolutionarily to us. The idea of us crossbreeding with
>> something from an entirely different evolutionary "tree" is ludicrous.
>
>Um, how do you know we can't crossbreed with chimps? 8-)
>It's been a few years, but I recall reading once in a "popular science
>magazine" that a scientist theorized that a human/chimpanzee hybrid
>was possible ... It's just not the sort of thing that would occur in
>nature.
Oh, knowing human nature, it would. Chimps have been caught alive
since ages untold, and certainly look more humanoid than, say, sheep
...
More recently, the Soviet government some decades ago enlisted female
volunteers for the good of science, and also got hold of a reasonable
number of male chimpanzees. Nothing came of it.
Theoretically, we might be able to interbreed like horse and donkey,
who are less related than humans and chimps. The problem seems to be
that we have a different number of chromosomes, and furthermore the
genes are now distributed differently on some of these chromosomes.
This need not stop procreation, if the extra chromosomes just contain
genes for some everyday enzyme that is regulated by other feedback
mechanisms. But if it entails dublicate homeobox genes, all bets are
off - these genes that tick off during early gestation determine our
basic body plan. A fetus with several brains or with legs instead of
head would be doomed from the start - it would hardly even grow to
visible size. Also some proteins can be lethal in too large doses, if
there is not an efficient negative feedback loop.
So a different number of chromosomes is not an absolute lock against
interbreeding, but still one of the more efficient shutters around.
And the chimps have one pair more than we.
--
itl...@online.no The one and only Magnus Itland.
http://home.online.no/~itlandm/
The Chaos Node: Diary of a sentient humanoid.
Thomas Ward
Magnus Itland <itl...@online.no> wrote in message
news:3a08e6cd...@news.online.no...
> "Thomas Ward" <tdwar...@HOME.COM> wrote:
> ><al.sch...@nashville.com> wrote in message
> >news:8tuboj$4v4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> since ages untold, and certainly look more humanoid than, say, sheep
> ...
The average chimp is MUCH stronger than a human being. Don't think
it'd appreciate the attention and demonstrate its displeasure appropriately.
> More recently, the Soviet government some decades ago enlisted female
> volunteers for the good of science, and also got hold of a reasonable
> number of male chimpanzees. Nothing came of it.
Interesting. Got a source for that? I've never heard of that experiment.
Doesn't surprise me, but I've never heard of it. 8-)
> So a different number of chromosomes is not an absolute lock against
> interbreeding, but still one of the more efficient shutters around.
> And the chimps have one pair more than we.
Thanks for the information.
Magnus Itland
>Magnus Itland <itl...@online.no> wrote in message
>news:3a08e6cd...@news.online.no...
>The average chimp is MUCH stronger than a human being. Don't think
>it'd appreciate the attention and demonstrate its displeasure appropriately.
I'm afraid that not all mating is pleasurable for both parties,
particularly when a human male is involved. Various forms of ropes
have existed since before the dawn of civilization.
>> More recently, the Soviet government some decades ago enlisted female
>> volunteers for the good of science, and also got hold of a reasonable
>> number of male chimpanzees. Nothing came of it.
>
>Interesting. Got a source for that? I've never heard of that experiment.
>Doesn't surprise me, but I've never heard of it. 8-)
Sorry, I read this in a Norwegian magazine a few years ago and did not
think to archive it. :(
Of course, there is the distinct possibility that it could be some
leftover cold war propaganda that was taken seriously because the cold
war is over. I've spent much of the evening on the Net trying to find
any international sources backing up the story, but there seem to be
none. Only vague rumors. In fact, I'm starting to wonder if this
could be a scientific urban legend. Oh well. There is still the
problem of the unpaired chromosome, which is a Bad Thing.
--
Thomas Ward
> "Thomas Ward" <tdwar...@HOME.COM> wrote:
> >Magnus Itland <itl...@online.no> wrote in message
> >news:3a08e6cd...@news.online.no...
>
> >it'd appreciate the attention and demonstrate its displeasure
appropriately.
>
> particularly when a human male is involved. Various forms of ropes
> have existed since before the dawn of civilization.
True enough ... but I'd think that the trouble involved would tend to
discourage that sort of thing ... and I'm going to leave the discussion
at that because I can't think of a way to continue it delicately. 8-)
Peter Lisiecki
Kaspar Hauser <rf...@SPAMSUCKSmindspring.com> wrote in message
> On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:02:17 -0400, Jeremiah Lee McVay
> <jlm...@is9.nyu.edu> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >jonny...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> >> I thought Dick became Robin when he was 12. He trained before but
> >> suited up at 12.
> >>
> >
> >Am I mistaken when I remember that Dick actually performed in the circus
> >with his family before they were killed? Maybe that is no longer in
> >continuity, but if it is, and he was 8 when he went to live with Bruce
> >he would have been a pretty young circus acrobat... so these age issues
> >may just never be resolved...
> >
> >~JLM
>
> You know what? I may have been thinking of Wally West. Mark Waid
> definitely stated Wally was 8 when he became Kid Flash. Although Wally
Nope, in The return of B. Allen issues Wally says "life began at 10, at
least for me it did, when i became kid flash."