FOOTNOTES OF MOSHE´S JAMES TRIMM DOCUMENT
koc...@my-deja.com
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:17:09 -0500 (CDT)
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From: James Trimm <***@**.com>
Subject: Re: second draft
In-reply-to: 5.0.0.25.0.20000929104503.009e80a0@p...
To: Moshe Shulman ***@***.com
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 17:58:32 -0500 (CDT)
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From: James Trimm <***@**.com>
Subject: Re: second draft
To: Moshe Shulman ***@***.com
In-reply-to: 5.0.0.25.0.20001002165349.009fc220@p...
2 The following appeared (which I have slightly edited) on James'
email
list 'Nazarene' in message #24384:
Subject: Re: current ministry (disregard previous)
From: James Trimm
[deleted]
There was not a tie on the Beit-Din the Halchah passed 4 to 2.
I have never changed my position on this. I have always taught:
1. A person can be "saved" without being circumcised
2. A person cannot become part of Am-yisrael without
circumcision.
A GER TOSHAV CANNOT serve on a Jewish Beit-Din or lead a Jewish
organization.
The Torah is VERY clear abot this.
Deut 28:13 COMMANDS us as Am-Yisrael:
Y**H shall make you the head, and not the tail;
and you shall be above only,
and you shall not be beneath;
if that you hearken unto the mitzvot of Y**H your Elohim,
which I command you this day, to observe and do.
(Deut. 28:13)
However if we will not keep the mitzvot Y**H pronounces the following
curse upon our people:
The GER that is among you shall get up above you very high,
and you shall come down very low...
he shall be the head and you shall be the tail.
Moreover all these curses shall come upon you...
(Deut. 28:43-45a)
[deleted]
> You
>are now saying that you were wrong in doing so, based on his genetics.
This was never a genetics issue. It is a covenant issue. It is a
freewill
issue.
It is not because Rav was not born Jewish but because he chooses not to
become Jewish. He chooses to remain a GER TOSHAV.
There is no shame in that. I believe Rav is a Righteous Gentile.
I enjoy and apreciate his teachings. I encourage him to remain
a "friend
of the beit din"
with non-voting status so that we may hear his views. I hope that he
will
allow us to continue to distribute his weekly Shabbat studies and to
continue to have his material on the SANJ website etc.
[deleted]
>
>Dr. Trimm, Is it not true that others agreed with Rav on this issue?
I do not know of anyone who fully agreed with him on the beit din on
this
issue.
Everyone on the beit-din except Rav maintained that a person cannot
become
a part of Am-Yisrael without being circumcised.
[deleted]
We agree with Rav on 99% of issues but we are very clear on this:
1. A person can be saved without being circumcised
(Gen. 15:6 & Gen 17; Acts 15)
2. A person must be circumcised to be part of Am-Yisrael
(Gen. 17:10-14)
3. It is a curse upon Am-Yisrael for A GER
(i.e. a Gentile who is not circumcised into Am-Yisrael)
to be in authority over Am-Yisrael.
(Deut. 28:13, 43-45)
(We did not write the rule book)
James Trimm
This list provided by SANJ sponsors: http://www.nazarene.net
SANJ is a non-profit organization
24384 of 24591
The person referred to in this message is no longer associated with
their
Bet Din.
3
-------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 19:14:27 -0500 (CDT)
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From: James Trimm <***@***.com>
Subject: reply
To: mshulman**@***.com
Message-id: <l03102816633a604e433a@[216.62.112.140]>
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Regarding your call:
I was born Jewish.
I have not answered your other questions yet because I am overcome with
work.
The new Semester for Beit Netarim has begun and I am teaching several
classes
as well as completing editting on three new books and preparing weekly
Torah studies.
My plate is so full I do not know what to do.
Trimm
-------------------
4
James sent this message to me. It has some more points then what he had
told
me, but the general content of it confirms what I have written. (I have
deleted parts that are not relevant to the issue.)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:22:07 -0500 (CDT)
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From: James Trimm <***@***.com>
Message-id: <l03102807630c3a108ab9@[216.62.112.27]>
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All,
[deleted]
First off my Jewish ancestory comes thru my father's side (there may be
some on my mother's side but it is not confirmed). The ancestory comes
from the Vinyard (pronounced in German "Weinert" family. They imigrated
here from Germany. They were short and had dark hair and brown eyes, a
Jewish last name (Weiner/Weinert/Vinyard). As I recall one of their
grandchildren was named "Rhoda" ( a very common Jewish name). There was
another German Jewish family in my father's background named "Nix".
I was raised in a fairly secular home. When I was 14 I started going to
Synagogue (Ahavat Shalom Congregation in Ft Worth) on my own. Many
people
thought from my appearance that I was Jewish, in fact I looked just like
the tailer in fidler on the roof. Knowing my mother was a geneologist I
got together with her and shook the family tree. I was not surprised to
see some Jews fall out. As I said this is when I was just 14. I
continued in Rabbinic Judaism through the rest of my childhood until I
was
18. It was not until that time that I acccepted Yeshua as Messiah (in
fact
I believe I was alomst 19). Up until that time Rabbinic Judaism was the
only religion I had ever known.
[deleted]
At any rate Judaism is the only religion I have ever knoiwn and I do
have
Jewish ancestory. Moreover my wife of ten years is Jewish on her
mother's
side and is the grand daughter (her mother's mother) of a holacaust
survivor from Germany. Together we have three children who are also
Jewish.
Now if the International Nazarene Beit-Din were ever to determine that
I do
not fit the criteria and am not Jewish, then I will gladly fulfil a
conversion. However I do not personally feel the need for this since
Judaism is the only religion I have ever had goin back to childhood, I
have
Jewish ancestors, and my wife and children are Jewish.
James Trimm
5
Message-ID: <000f01c02cd0$1dc8ea20$fd5679a5@default
From: "Rav Mikha'el" <***@***.com>
To: "Kathryn" <***@***.net>
Subject: affiliation
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 20:23:11 -0400
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Shalom,
As regading your question as to my personal affiliation with SANJ and
the
International Nazarene Biet Din. At this time there is no official
realtionship between either myself or Biet HaKadosh and SANJ. I/we are
not
part of the organizational structure, we do not recognize the authority
of
the Beit Din, we do not contribute monetarily to SANJ. Due to the
nature of
the decision made by the Biet Din a year ago regarding the necessity to
be
Jewish in order to be a nazarene and to participate in it's most
important
institutions, I/we withdrew our affiliation at that time. I remain on
good
terms with SANJ and count many of the men and women associated with
SANJ as
friends and brothers. Our basic goals are common, but without proper
recognition of a Gentile's value and ability to contribute on an equal
level
within the organization, I/we remain outside of this official community.
Blessings in Yahushua,
Rav Mikha'el
Beit HaKadosh
Reading, PA
6 See:
http://www.nazarene.net/beitdin/conversion_to_netzarim_judaism.htm:
Passed by The International Nazarene Beit Din on September 17, 1999.
1. Candidate must state and demonstrate that they seek conversion on
conviction alone and has no other motives.
2. Candidate must pledge complete and unreserved commitment to the
Torah and
to the People of Israel. Candidate must complete or "test out" of a
conversion course which will teach them the commitments of the covenant
and
the history and culture of the people whom they are joining.
3. A male seeking conversion must be circumcised.
a. Circumcision must be performed in the presence of three witnesses.
b. A candidate with a non-religious circumcision must undergo hatafat
dam
b'rit, which is the ritual drawing of blood from the region.
c. The candidate is given time to recover (before the next step).
4. Candidate must undergo a ritual immersion (t'vilah).
a. This must be performed before three witnesses.
b. The candidate then recites the ritual prayer for immersions.
c. This is followed by a second immersion.
5. Candidate is given a new, Hebrew name.
6. Conversion must be officiated by a person having s'mikhah
(ordination)
from the International Nazarene Beit-Din.
7
See David Stern's Messianic Jewish Manifesto p. 16-17, 21; and Dan
Juster's
Jewish Roots p. 191-192.
8
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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 01:07:29 -0400
To: James Trimm <***@***.net>
From: Moshe Shulman <***@***.com>
Subject: My questions
Cc: ***@***.com
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Here are the main questions i have asked. I took them from all the
posts I
sent you. (Some I have ignored) Please address them, as I have a number
of
people who are waiting on me to summerize what I hjave found out.
1. Where are the grades you had in your classes?
2. How long did it take you to get that many credits. (In the
university I
went to, which was on the quarter system, it would have taken well over
5
years. For a semester system, it would have been longer.)
6. How many years the program required? How many students were enroled
at
the time and how many average per class.
7. Course load in units and weekly class time that entailed. What were
the
required courses, and what you took each year (with the instructors
name.)
8. (Since you have a doctorate) the title of your thesis, and where it
is
available. Who was on the commitee that approved it the subject. Who
was
your thesis advisor? Similar for your masters.
9. Which undergraduate college or university did you graduate from?
With
what and when?
10.:
---------------------------
I was conferred with the S.T.D. degee (Sacrae Theologae Doctor)
by this seminary on June 7th 1995.
In what area? (I think they should change the initials.)
---------------------------
11:
---------------------
Moreover my degree was earned. It was NOT awarded as an honorary degree
nor was it purchased (as I said I was actually on a full scholarship).
I have a certified transcript with real credit hours. The school also
required
three letters of recomendation from persons who have doctorates in the
field
of religion in order to be awarded the degree of doctor. My degree
required
real credit hours, as well as three such recomendations. It was NOT the
product
of a diploma mill.
Are you claiming to have a Doctor of Religion degree?
---------
9
The first email from Dr. X was dated: Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 18:07:52 -
0400
And the second one was dated: Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 10:13:34 -0400
which I
received from James in the following message:
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:17:09 -0500 (CDT)
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From: James Trimm <***@***.com>
Subject: Re: second draft
In-reply-to: 5.0.0.25.0.20000929104503.009e80a0@p...
To: Moshe Shulman <***@***.com>
Message-id: <l0310280c631439cddf4b@[216.62.114.218]>
MIME-version: 1.0
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10
See: http://www.nazarene.net/yeshiva/course_descriptions.htm:
General Biblical Studies (GB)
Survey of the Tanak (1 & 2) - This course looks at the
general
background of the Tanak, the forming of the canon, dates,
authors,
and purposes of the various books.
Survey of the New Testament (1 & 2) - This course will look
at the New Testament from a Jewish perspective in light of
the Dead Sea Scrolls, Rabbinc literature etc. We will
examine the New Testament on the four levels of
understanding.
Textbooks: The Jewish New Testament Commentary by David
Stern ; isbn 965-359-008-1 and MESSIAH Volume 1 available
from Millennium7000
Survey of Torah (1 & 2) - This course will go through the
Torah in detail through each of the 54 parashot.
Survey of Navi'im (1&2) - This course will book by book
through the Prophets, the background of each book its
author and purpose.
Survey of Ketuvim (1&2) - This course will go book by book
through the Ketuvim, the background of each book its
author and purpose.
Survey of B'sorot (1&2) - This course will look at the four
Gospels from a Jewish perspective in light of the Dead Sea
Srolls, Rabbinc literature etc. We will examine the Gospels
on the four levels of understanding.
Survey of Shaliachim (1&2) - This course will look at the
writings of the emissaries from a Jewish perspective in
light of the Dead Sea Scrolls, Rabbinic literature etc.
Parables of Yeshua - This course will review each of the
parables of Yeshua.
Tanak Textual Criticism - This course will examine the
manuscript history of the text of the Tanak.
"New Testament" Textual Criticism - This course will
examine the manuscript history of the text of the New
Testament.
Biblical Hermeteutics - This course will discuss logistics in
interpreting the scriptures from a Jewish perspective. This
course will cover the four levels of understanding, the
seven rules of Hillel, the thirteen rules of Ishmael, the
thirty two rules of Eleazer and the basics of Midrashic
Exegesis.
Textbook JEWISH HERMENEUTICS available from SANJ
Semitic Poetry - This course will cover the various types of
Hebrew poetry and how identifying these forms can help us
better understand the scriptures.
Language Studies (LS)
Biblical Hebrew (1-4)
Aramaic (1-4)
Biblical Greek (1-4)
Advanced Systematic Theology (AST)
Systematic Theology - This course will give an overview of
the major areas of theology.
Jewish Mysticism I - This course will cover Jewish
mysticism, especially in relationship to understanding the
Godhead.
Textbook: MYSTERY OF THE GODHEAD; BASIC CONCEPTS OF
KABBALAH available from SANJ
Escatology - This course will give an overview of matters
relating to the last days and the afterlife.
Apologetics and Polemics (AP)
Apologetics I - This course will deal with basic polemics
and apologetics.
Apologetics II (Messianic Prophecy) - This course will deal
with polemics and apologetics regarding Messianic
Prophecy.
Overview of the Typology of the Jewish Feast Days - This
course will go over each of the festivals of Israel and
examine their typology.
Creation Science - This class will examine evidence for
special creation and against evolution.
Answering Islam - This course will review and answer the
claims of Islam as well as explore methods of presenting
Torah and Messiah to Moslems.
Answering Christendom - This course will review and
answer the claims of Christendom as well as explore
methods of presenting Torah and Nazarene Judaism to
Christians and examine pagan elements within
Christendom.
Textbooks:FREEDOM IN TORAH and SEVEN SEALS SEVEN
THUNDERS both available from SANJ.
Aswering Mormonism - How to respond to Mormons and
how to present Torah and Nazarene Judaism to Mormons.
Student must also take or have taken "Answering
Christendom" to take this class. (yes, you can take this
with "Answering Chritendom)
Textbooks:FREEDOM IN TORAH and SEVEN SEALS SEVEN
THUNDERS both available from SANJ.
Answering Para-Christian Groups - This course will review
and answer the claims of para-Christian groups as well as
explore methods of presenting Torah to them
Archaeology and the Bible - This course will cover the Bible
in its relationship to Biblical Archaeology.
Messianic Apologetics - How to respond to the
anti-missionaries.
Textbook: Let's Get Truthful tapeset and studyguide available
from SANJ
Semitic Literature (SL)
Overview of Rabbinic Literature -
Rashi on the Tanak -
Survey of the Mishna - This course will go tractate by
tractate through the Mishna, the background of each
tractate and its purpose
Survey of the Tosefta - This course will go tractate by
tractate through the Tosefta, the background of each
tractate and its purpose
Survey of Talmud - This course will go tractate by tractate
through the Talmud, the background of each tractate and
its purpose
Survey of the Midrashim - This course will review the
various midrashim and make a detailed study of at least
one midrash. An overview of the Midrashim this class will
examine: Midrash Mekhilta; Midrash Sifre; Midrash Rabbah
and Midrash Sefer HaYashar.
Textbook: The Midrash; an Introduction; Jacob Neusner ISBN
1-56821-357-3 or 0-87668-814-8
Survey of the Sefer Yetzirah, the Bahir and the Zohar - This
course will survey the basic literature of Jewish Mysticism.
Survey of the Siddur - This course will go through the
Siddur line by line giving a better understanding of the
traditional liturgy.
Survey of the Dead Sea Scrolls - This course will go
document by document through the Dead Sea Scrolls (apart
from biblical manuscripts) Text Book: The DSS a New
Translation by Wise; Abegg & Cook.
Halachah (Hal)
Mechanics of the Hebrew Calendar - This class will examine
the mechanics of the original Hebrew calendar, the Hillel II
calendar end even the Qumran calendar.
Overview of the Mitzvot - This course will examine each of
the 613 mitzvot (commandments).
History (H)
History of the Nazarenes - This course will trace the history
of the Nazarenes from the beginning of the ministry of
Yochanan the immerser (John the Baptist) forward.
History of Judaism - This course will cover the history of
Judaism through the Second Temple Era.
History of Rabbinic Judaism - This course will cover the
history of Rabbinic Judaism from the second Temple Era
forward.
History of Christendom - This course will cover the history
of Christiandom from its inception to the current day.
Tracing the Lost Tribes - This course will trace the
migrations of the Lost Tribes.
Textbook: The Tribes by Yair Davidy
Overview of the Typology of the Jewish Feast Days - This
course will go over each of the festivals of Israel and
examine their typology.
11
----------
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 01:45:38 -0500 (CDT)
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From: James Trimm <***@***.com>
Subject: Reply to slander about Yeshiva
To: mshulman**@***.com
Message-id: <l0310280e632c3c74a687@[216.62.116.244]>
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All,
How long must we be opressed and slandered by Kathryn?
Peresonally I do not think Kathryn knows what she is talking about but
for
the reasons given below even if she is correct the law in question is
unconstitional and therefore null and void.
Beit Netzarim Nazarene Yeshiva functions under the approbation of the
International Nazarene Beit Din.
We maintain that the US Bill of Rights guarantees our right to function
as
a religious organization without licensing by the state.
In fact this very issue was one of the original issues that led to the
colinization of this country and our eventual split from England.
England
had laws requiring such Religious Schools to be licensed by the King and
required that ministers be liscened to preach by the Kings authority.
The
Anabaptists, Puritans, Jews and others wished to operate their own
schools
and issue their own degrees without having to be liscensed by the King.
We further mainatin that the Texas State Constitution even further
protects
this same right to function without licensing by the State.
We further maintain that Artical I Section 7 of the Texas State
Constitution forbids the state from spending one penny in any attempt to
liscense us.
Even if there were a law counter to these it would be unconstitutional
on
both the Federal and State levels and therefore null and void.
Even if we were to challenge such a law in court and lose we would only
have to move the mailing address of the Yeshiva to another state or
country. SANJ has affiliates in several states and four English
Speaking
countries.
James Trimm
----------
12
http://www.nazarene.net/yeshiva/diploma_programs.htm:
All classes are worth 3 credit hours each.
Certificate of Biblical Studies
(15 hours; two semesters; Five classes)
Required courses:
Survey of the Tanak I
Survey of the Tanak II
New Testament Survey I
New Testament Survey II
Systematic Theology
Certificate of Basic Biblical Studies
(30 hours; two semesters; 10 classes)
Required courses:
Survey of the Tanak I
Survey of the Tanak II
New Testament Survey I
New Testament Survey II
Systematic Theology
+ Five other classes
Graduate Diploma in Hebrew Letters
(60 hours; four semesters; two years post
graduate studies)
Required courses:
24 hours of Bible "Survey" Classes
Hermeneutics
Systematic Theology
3 hours of "Rabbinic literature" classes
Survey of the Dead Sea Scrolls
Two Years of Languages (at least one year of
Hebrew
and one
year of Aramaic)
Advanced Level Diploma (Certificate of
Rabbinate)
(120 hours; eight semesters; four years post
graduate studies)
Required courses:
30 hours of Bible "Survey" Classes
Hermeneutics
Tanak Textual Criticism
New Testament Textual Criticism
Systematic Theology
Answering Christendom
3 hours of Rabbinic literature classes
Survey of the Dead Sea Scrolls
3 hours Apologetics Courses ( in addition to
Apologetics II)
Apologetics II (Answering the Anti-
Missionaries)
History of the Nazarenes
Jewish Mysticism
Three Years of Languages (at least one year of
Hebrew and one
year of Aramaic)
S'mikhah
Students who achieve the Certificate of Rabbinate
may
petition the International
Nazarene Beit Din for S'mikhah.
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