Future of SCO Merge?
Phil Eschallier
> Okay, I recently asked a question in c.u.u.m if anyone had heard
> anything about when Merge 5 was going to be released. The slide
> presentations from Forum99 on SCO's web site seem to indicate
> that it should already be out.
> I didn't get any responses, so I starting bugging someone at SCO
> Service Sales, to see if she could find out for me. After a few
> emails to some of her contacts within SCO about when Merge 5
> will appear for UW7, this is what I found out:
> "No, currently Merge 5 will be released on OS5 only.
> Without a compelling business case it will not released for
> UW7."
> Now, I use Merge 4.1.1 quite heavily on my UnixWare 7.1.1
> system, and it works well. I was looking forward to the Win98
> and "native networking" support in Merge 5.
> Is there anyone else out there using Merge on UW7 who needs
> Merge 5 to be supported? Evidently not, at least according to
> SCO.
> I've been using UW since 1.0, and am not really interested in
> installing OpenServer. From where I sit, it looks like SCO
> wants me to ditch UW, in favor of Linux running Win4Lin from
> TreLOS. That must be why they're going for a Linux
> distribution... B-)
> -- Anthony W. Southworth
Anthony;
We stopped paying for Merge SWiM maintenance a year back as there was
absolutely no business or technical reason to do so. Specifically,
for the price of a decent speed P-II box with Win98 and network
support, why support Merge?
Merge has been, and is, tecnically a great product, but if you were
reviewing business cases for the support a product line in this
situation, would you fund continued development?
I've been an open supporter of SCO and their technology for 15+ years,
but their business practices over the last 5 years continue to
degrade. In my case, I've paid for a multi-year SWiM contract and SCO
will neither provide me updates nor will they give me my money back on
this specific contract.
My intention is not to grand stand, but only to suggest that you pay
for what makes good business sense ... if you don't believe Merge5 is
in the future for UW7, then save your money. If enough people refuse
to pay SCO for services that are not delivered, then perhaps SCO will
either make more deliveries or stop selling what they do not intend to
offer.
--
Phil Eschallier | Bux Technical Services | Systems, software, inet
ph...@BuxTech.Com | 131 Wells Road | security and Inter-
tel 215 348 9721 | Doylestown, PA 18901 | networking for your
fax 215 230 8265 | http://www.BuxTech.Com | business!
KeyID D6E9B193
Anthony W. Southworth
Thanh
Humm... in case it is an option for you, try http://www.winehq.com
skunkware has been quite inactive for the last few months but
it does have a wine package which is about a ... year old.
I have not tried it though :-)
Thanh
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Bill Campbell
>In article <8irmcf$8is$1...@malgudi.oar.net>,
> ant...@carsinfo.com (Anthony W. Southworth) wrote:
>> Okay, I recently asked a question in c.u.u.m if anyone had heard
>anything
>> about when Merge 5 was going to be released. The slide presentations
>> from Forum99 on SCO's web site seem to indicate that it should already
>> be out.
I don't know what the status of Merge is now, but I did just start using
win4lin from trelos.com. At least one of the people, David Peet, there
doing e-mail support was with Locus/Platinum, the original authors of PC-
Interface and Merge. They may be doing ports for systems other than Linux.
I think that vmware is also available for multiple platforms.
Bill
--
INTERNET: bi...@Celestial.COM Bill Campbell; Celestial Systems, Inc.
UUCP: camco!bill PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
FAX: (206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676
URL: http://www.celestial.com/
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he
is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe and not
make messes in the house.
-- Lazarus Long, "Time Enough for Love"
Anthony W. Southworth
: I don't know what the status of Merge is now, but I did just start using
: win4lin from trelos.com. At least one of the people, David Peet, there
: doing e-mail support was with Locus/Platinum, the original authors of PC-
: Interface and Merge. They may be doing ports for systems other than Linux.
: I think that vmware is also available for multiple platforms.
I've exchanged email with David before. He has worked on Merge quite
a long time, and even maintains something of an unoffical Merge web site:
http://www.lainet.com/~peet/Merge/
I think TreLOS is concentrating on the Linux market (as is SCO it seems
these days). I haven't asked specifically, but I don't see them maintaining
a UW port. Maybe when SCO drops support for Merge on UW, things will
change.
As for VMWare, they have no plans to support UW in either a host or client
configuration - I asked.
--
Anthony W. Southworth
Geoff Johnson
In the good old days when UW was trying to compete for the desk top you
you get merge for a reasonable price. Its now about $A400. At that price
its easier just to keep a second PC and a keyboard, mouse, monitor
switch. At $100 each everyone would buy one.
At this price SCO can keep it, and SCO does.
Anthony W. Southworth wrote:
>
> Okay, I recently asked a question in c.u.u.m if anyone had heard anything
> about when Merge 5 was going to be released. The slide presentations
> from Forum99 on SCO's web site seem to indicate that it should already
> be out.
>
> I didn't get any responses, so I starting bugging someone at SCO Service
> Sales, to see if she could find out for me. After a few emails to some
> of her contacts within SCO about when Merge 5 will appear for UW7, this
> is what I found out:
>
> "No, currently Merge 5 will be released on OS5 only. Without a
> compelling business case it will not released for UW7."
>
> Now, I use Merge 4.1.1 quite heavily on my UnixWare 7.1.1 system, and
> it works well. I was looking forward to the Win98 and "native networking"
> support in Merge 5.
>
> Is there anyone else out there using Merge on UW7 who needs Merge 5 to
> be supported? Evidently not, at least according to SCO.
>
> I've been using UW since 1.0, and am not really interested in installing
> OpenServer. From where I sit, it looks like SCO wants me to ditch UW,
> in favor of Linux running Win4Lin from TreLOS. That must be why they're
> going for a Linux distribution... B-)
>
> --
> Anthony W. Southworth
--
Geoff Johnson
Warren Young
>
> Its the classic price yourself out of the market game.
>
> In the good old days when UW was trying to compete for the desk top you
> you get merge for a reasonable price. Its now about $A400. At that price
> its easier just to keep a second PC and a keyboard, mouse, monitor
> switch. At $100 each everyone would buy one.
Their price isn't out of line with competing offerings. Consider VMWare
on Linux: $300 for a business license, plus $100ish for the copy of
Windows you have to load on it to make it useful. `Course, VMWare's
more generally useful than that, but most people only use it to run
Windows.
If all you want is DOS emulation, though, yes, $400 is too much.
--
= Warren Young, maintainer of the Winsock Programmer's FAQ at:
= http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/programming/winsock/
=
= ICBM Address: 36.8274040 N, 108.0204086 W, alt. 1714m
Peter
>At this price SCO can keep it, and SCO does.
>
And on the other hand, a SCO-country-manger asked me about thinking of
a SCO Linux product - now, it's seems to came out next (sco-)time.
My answer was: make UW and it's add-one good and offer it and it's
add-one at a reality price, so SCO has a lot to do. Going now the
Linux way, you can forget OS today and UW tomorrow and SCO ???
See Corel!
Raymond N Shwake
>Geoff Johnson wrote:
>>
>> Its the classic price yourself out of the market game.
>>
>> In the good old days when UW was trying to compete for the desk top you
>> you get merge for a reasonable price. Its now about $A400. At that price
>> its easier just to keep a second PC and a keyboard, mouse, monitor
>> switch. At $100 each everyone would buy one.
>Their price isn't out of line with competing offerings. Consider VMWare
>on Linux: $300 for a business license, plus $100ish for the copy of
>Windows you have to load on it to make it useful. `Course, VMWare's
>more generally useful than that, but most people only use it to run
>Windows.
Whether you use Merge or VMWare you have to pay for a Windows license.
If one is considering the Linux alternative, it's worth checking out Trelos'
Win4Lin (Windows for Linux), which is effectively an upgraded Merge.
Arthur Marsh
isn't as mature in native hardware access as SCO Merge. On the other hand,
win4lin supports Win98.
A Win4Lin with support for serial ports at high speed would get me onto
Linux quickly. A Merge for UW 7.1.X with Win98SE support would get me
running UW as soon as I could afford a copy of UW 7 small business edition.
The whole point of wanting to do this is to support legacy DOS applications
while getting equivalent UW/Linux applications up and running on the same
computer.
"Raymond N Shwake" <rsh...@rsxtech.atww.org> wrote in message
news:Fx0sv...@rsxtech.atww.org...
Brian K. White
>
> Thanks for the reference, but from what I read at www.trelos.com, win4lin
> isn't as mature in native hardware access as SCO Merge. On the other hand,
> win4lin supports Win98.
>
> A Win4Lin with support for serial ports at high speed would get me onto
> Linux quickly. A Merge for UW 7.1.X with Win98SE support would get me
> running UW as soon as I could afford a copy of UW 7 small business edition.
>
> The whole point of wanting to do this is to support legacy DOS applications
> while getting equivalent UW/Linux applications up and running on the same
> computer.
If it's really about DOS apps and not necessarily windows apps, then You
probably don't need anything but Linux and dosemu. Dosemu has been running
almost everything that runs on dos for a long time now. About the only
limitations now are "ring-0" code (Win9x, Phar-lap dos extender used by
AutoCAD < 13 ), and certain dos video modes while in X (all video modes are
ok on the console since you can give dos direct acess to any hardware). You
need a copy of some real dos, it comes with freedos, but that is far from
useable, but if ms-dos is not available, dr-dos can be downloaded and that
is not only up to snuff, but better than ms-dos. but if you have win95/98,
you have a perfectly suitable dos available, as you can actually use the dos
components from them.
Frankly, I'd rather run something like AutoCAD (versions > 13 ) which now
only comes in win9x versions, under a windows emulator on unix than on
native windows, if there is one that is complete enough. I'd like for the
application to enjoy the much more dependable garuntees made by the unix
kernel and likely the emulator package as well, than the MS "kernel"
(any unix, including linux)
--
Brian K. White http://www.squonk.net/users/linut
+++++[>+++[>+++++>+++++++<<-]<-]>>+.>.+++++.+++++++.-.[>+<---]>++.
filePro BBx Linux SCO Prosper/FACTS AutoCAD #callahans Satriani
David Peet
>
> Its the classic price yourself out of the market game.
I agree!
I have been telling SCO for some time now that they are charging way
too much for Merge in today's market. That is why we are currently
selling the Win4Lin single user version for $50. This is a low price!
(But the $50 only get you minimal support directly from TreLOS.)
The multi-user version of Win4Lin (version 2.0) will be out this
summer sometime, and support for SMP systems. (Current versions
of SCO Merge already support SMP.) SCO Merge 5, also available
this summer for OpenServer, has a bit more functionality than in
Win4Lin 1.0 (which is version "4.9", vs. SCO Merge being "5.0").
> Anthony W. Southworth wrote:
> >
> > Okay, I recently asked a question in c.u.u.m if anyone had heard anything
> > about when Merge 5 was going to be released. The slide presentations
> > from Forum99 on SCO's web site seem to indicate that it should already
> > be out.
It should be in (early?) August. So Real Soon Now. (for OpenServer only)
> > I didn't get any responses, so I starting bugging someone at SCO Service
> > Sales, to see if she could find out for me. After a few emails to some
> > of her contacts within SCO about when Merge 5 will appear for UW7, this
> > is what I found out:
> >
> > "No, currently Merge 5 will be released on OS5 only. Without a
> > compelling business case it will not released for UW7."
> >
> > Now, I use Merge 4.1.1 quite heavily on my UnixWare 7.1.1 system, and
> > it works well. I was looking forward to the Win98 and "native networking"
> > support in Merge 5.
> >
> > Is there anyone else out there using Merge on UW7 who needs Merge 5 to
> > be supported? Evidently not, at least according to SCO.
Yes, SCO has decided not to offer this.
(If demand is high enough, TreLOS could though.)
One problem is that some changes in early release versions
Unixware 7.1.1 cause problems with Merge, and SCO has to fix these
things in UW711 before anyone can provide a Merge for UW711.
(The same version of Merge that has problems on UW711 works fine
on earlier versions of UW7.) So SCO has to spend effort (i.e. $$)
to fix UW711. In addition, the new networking support in Merge 5
for OpenServer does not translate directly to UW7, because the
networking implementation is so different betwen OSR5 and UW7.
So it will take $$ to implement that feature for UW7.
If there is enough demand for Merge 5 on UW7 (either with or
without the new networking stuff) then it makes business sense
to supply it. If TreLOS supplies it, then we might have to say to
not use it on UW711 until SCO fixes UW711, and/or that it does not
have the new networking stuff.
So you have to let TreLOS know what the realistic demand for
Merge 5 on UW7 is, and the functionality really required.
(I.e. is the new networking required or not.)
email in...@trelos.com
But note that TreLOS is not set up to provide support on UW7
at the same level as we are now doing on Linux.
So if TreLOS supplies Merge 5 on UW7, it may not be with much
if any support. (Then perhaps some UW7 shop could step up and
sell some level of UW7 related support for Merge, for whatever
price they can get.)
But one thing to note: SCO Merge on OpenServer still has more
slightly more functionality than on UW7, and performance is a bit,
better on OpenServer. So unless you need to use UW7 for other
reasons, OpenServer is the better platform for Merge.
-David Peet
Geoff Johnson
Another indication that SCO is not giving the slightest consideration to
the "Desktop UNIX". At UNIVEL, MERGE was considered a stepping stone to
penetrating the desktop market.
I suppose SCO is just abandoning this to LINUX.
What happended with windows? The system that managers use on their desks
was the one that influenced there purchasing decisions for servers!
There is absolutely nothing wrong with modern UNIX desktop systems
except the lack of applications.
Maybe SCO should invest in the applications side of a divested MS.
--
Geoff Johnson
Anthony W. Southworth
: Yes, SCO has decided not to offer this.
: (If demand is high enough, TreLOS could though.)
: One problem is that some changes in early release versions
: Unixware 7.1.1 cause problems with Merge, and SCO has to fix these
: things in UW711 before anyone can provide a Merge for UW711.
: (The same version of Merge that has problems on UW711 works fine
: on earlier versions of UW7.) So SCO has to spend effort (i.e. $$)
: to fix UW711.
What type of problem exists? I'm currently using Merge 4.1.1 on
UW 7.1.1. The only problem I've noticed is that xcrt will sometimes
core dump when I shutdown Merge.
: In addition, the new networking support in Merge 5
: for OpenServer does not translate directly to UW7, because the
: networking implementation is so different betwen OSR5 and UW7.
: So it will take $$ to implement that feature for UW7.
: If there is enough demand for Merge 5 on UW7 (either with or
: without the new networking stuff) then it makes business sense
: to supply it. If TreLOS supplies it, then we might have to say to
: not use it on UW711 until SCO fixes UW711, and/or that it does not
: have the new networking stuff.
The networking support is a must, especially since UW's NetWare continues
to get further out of date. I currently access my NetWare volumes and
printers via the underlying UW layer. Of course I'm assuming by "network"
support you're talking about accessing an NT server, and not NetWare,
so it may be a mute point (at least for me).
: So you have to let TreLOS know what the realistic demand for
: Merge 5 on UW7 is, and the functionality really required.
: (I.e. is the new networking required or not.)
: email in...@trelos.com
: But note that TreLOS is not set up to provide support on UW7
: at the same level as we are now doing on Linux.
It couldn't be less support than SCO provides... (sorry, that was uncalled
for)
: So if TreLOS supplies Merge 5 on UW7, it may not be with much
: if any support. (Then perhaps some UW7 shop could step up and
: sell some level of UW7 related support for Merge, for whatever
: price they can get.)
: But one thing to note: SCO Merge on OpenServer still has more
: slightly more functionality than on UW7, and performance is a bit,
: better on OpenServer. So unless you need to use UW7 for other
: reasons, OpenServer is the better platform for Merge.
Why is that? What functionality is missing? What exactly is slow?
Graphics? I'm running on a 400 MHz PII (not a slow box, but not a fast
box either), and I think the performance is just fine. I haven't really
considered Merge "slow" since I ran it on UW 1.x/2.x on a 486... B-)
--
Anthony W. Southworth
Geoff Johnson
> Why is that? What functionality is missing? What exactly is slow?
> Graphics? I'm running on a 400 MHz PII (not a slow box, but not a fast
> box either), and I think the performance is just fine. I haven't really
> considered Merge "slow" since I ran it on UW 1.x/2.x on a 486... B-)
>
> --
> Anthony W. Southworth
--
Geoff Johnson
Dennis Golden
>
> Thanks for the reference, but from what I read at www.trelos.com, win4lin
> isn't as mature in native hardware access as SCO Merge. On the other hand,
> win4lin supports Win98.
>
> A Win4Lin with support for serial ports at high speed would get me onto
> Linux quickly. A Merge for UW 7.1.X with Win98SE support would get me
> running UW as soon as I could afford a copy of UW 7 small business edition.
>
> The whole point of wanting to do this is to support legacy DOS applications
> while getting equivalent UW/Linux applications up and running on the same
> computer.
>
> news:Fx0sv...@rsxtech.atww.org...
>
> > Whether you use Merge or VMWare you have to pay for a Windows license.
> > If one is considering the Linux alternative, it's worth checking out
> Trelos'
> > Win4Lin (Windows for Linux), which is effectively an upgraded Merge.
FIW,
I just happened to be sitting next to a couple of the SCO Merge folks at
Forum 2000 at lunch and I asked about Merge 5 for UnixWare. They said
that there will be a UnixWare version.
Regards,
Dennis
--
Dennis Golden
Golden Consulting Services, Inc.
Change 'invalid' to 'com' to reply by email.
Thanh
Humm, I did not hear or see such a possibility in the SCO road map
presentation by the Director of Product Management/Marketing, Tamar
Newberger. Only Merge 5 for OpenServer 5.0.6 that will support W98.
Thanh
>
> Regards,
>
> Dennis
> --
> Dennis Golden
> Golden Consulting Services, Inc.
> Change 'invalid' to 'com' to reply by email.
>