Shakespeare italian?
Greg Reynolds
john, baker wrote:
> ...I would bet the author lived in Italy and visited Sicily.
I'll take that bet, baker. Say, $50.00? (please confirm.)
Now you have an incentive!
Greg Reynolds
(I'll be playing for my charity--Save the Trees)
xxxx
Gugliemo Scrollalanza, or Scollalacia, been born in the just period for
being William the Shakespeare. Well, such Scrollalanza would have been son
of merchants sicialian, a sicialian therefore, than, on the base of
searches of which I do not know the reliability, it would have left
autobiographic notes that introduces the cues most similar to varied
shakespeariane history, in particular those, numerous, acclimatized in
Italy. Such young person sicialian, after this travel along Italy, from its
native island towards the north, from last would have moved itself in
England where, changed the name, shining literary and teatrale career.
can be true?
I pray not insulted me ;-)
Sorry but translated whit altavista.
john_baker
its not very likely.
in fact its more likely the butcher's helper from Stratford
wrote the plays and the poems than anyone from
Italy.
but I would bet the author lived in Italy and visited Sicily.
baker
Peter Zenner
>but I would bet the author lived in Italy and visited Sicily.
Follow the travels of Sir Philip Sidney, between 1572
and 1578 and you will know where his page boy went
also. Marlowe visited Italy and every other country between
here and there. 'Shakespeare was a printer'? No but
they actually stayed with one. They were also given extensive
hospitality by the merchants of Venice. DING!
Sidney studied Italian art and literature and our child prodigy
was at his elbow. I can't find a reference to Sicily but it is
entirely possible for the works of a Sicilian to be available
in Italy, don't you think?
Peter Zenner
P.S. Another of Sidney's page boys was Henry Danvers, who
became the Earl of Danby. Do you remember the story of the
feud between the Danvers' and the Longs? They ended up as
the Capulets and the Montegues in 'Romeo and Juliet'.
Isn't that weird?
+44 (0) 1246 271726
Visit my web site 'Zenigmas' at
http://www.pzenner.freeserve.co.uk
paul streitz
"xxxx" <g...@tin.it> wrote:
> In Italy it has been published a book in which it is supported that
such
> Gugliemo Scrollalanza, or Scollalacia, been born in the just period
for
To give you some background on Italy and Shakespeare and then try to
answer your question.
The plays of Shakespeare show a strong preference for and knowledge of
Italy. Only one is set in a foreign country other than Italy.
Further, some of the plots derive from Italian stories, some of which
had not been translated into Italian. Further, the plays seem to
indicate that the author had visited Italy and spoke Italian.
Traditional scholars supporting the authorship of the man from
Stratford have tried to connect the Italian motifs in the work in a
variety of ways. One ventured to say that the man from Stratford
visited Italy on a summer trip (there is no evidence he ever ventured
outside England); others have said that he met Italians in London,
talked to others who have visited Italy, had translations done for him,
etc. Others, have downgraded the problem by dumbing Shakespeare down,
by saying he made mistakes, didn't know that much Italian, could have
picked it up from fellow actors, etc.
The Earl of Oxford, however, visited Italy, including many places
described in the plays, and spoke Italian. When he returned from Italy
he brought the Queen a pair of embroidered Italian gloves, he dressed
in a Continental fashion, and there was a perfume he imported from
Italy, the Oxford perfume. He also returned with one or more Italian in
his entourage, who then stayed in London. In short, there is a strong
connection between Oxford and Italy.
There are many theories of who wrote Shakespeare. If you set down a
list of qualifications and point of view, and then compared your
Italian candidate to the list, (including timelines of when the plays
first appeared, etc.), it is doubtful that the Italian candidate you
propose would make a good candidate.
Hope you find this helpful.
paul streitz
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
John W. Kennedy
actually written by one Adolph Mannheim, who was born in Vienna, the
illegitimate son of the Emperor. And another that proves that
"Rigoletto" was written by Joseph Green of London, who had to support
his family by selling fruit in Piccadilly Circus, because no one was
interested in English operas. And one more that proves that Dante was
actually the last survivor of the Nestorian Christians who set up the
Sigan-Fu stone in China.
--
-John W. Kennedy
-jwk...@attglobal.net
Compact is becoming contract
Man only earns and pays. -- Charles Williams
Tom Reedy
present day; that Jesus actually survived the crucifixtion and traveled to
China; and that alien spaceships appeared in ancient times and seeded the
earth with technology.
These are the more level-headed ones. And then you have anti-Stratfordians!
TR
John W. Kennedy <jwke...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:393D410F...@bellatlantic.net...
Greg Reynolds
Caius Marcius wrote:
> paul streitz <pfst...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:8hj8ab$6nt$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > In article <8hhfko$1ib$1...@nslave2.tin.it>,
> > "xxxx" <g...@tin.it> wrote:
> > > In Italy it has been published a book in which it is supported that
> > such
> > > Gugliemo Scrollalanza, or Scollalacia, been born in the just period
> > for
> >
> > To give you some background on Italy and Shakespeare and then try to
> > answer your question.
> >
> > The plays of Shakespeare show a strong preference for and knowledge of
> > Italy. Only one is set in a foreign country other than Italy
>
> That's funny - I thought LLL, AWTEW, AYLI and substantial portions
> of H5 and H6 were set in France; M4M in Vienna; MSND in Athens;
> Pericles in Antioch; 12th Night in Illyria, etc.
>
> - CMC
Lets add Denmark, Sicily, Egypt, Troy, and the African coast.
Caius Marcius
<john baker> wrote in message
news:393c5dbe....@News.localaccess.com...
> On Tue, 6 Jun 2000 02:17:16 +0200, "xxxx" <g...@tin.it> wrote:
>
> its not very likely.
>
> in fact its more likely the butcher's helper from Stratford
> wrote the plays and the poems than anyone from
> Italy.
>
I once wrote an essay (first posted on April 1) which proved that the plays
attributed to Shakespeare were actually written by Niccolo Machiavelli.
Coax me a little, and I'll repost it.
- CMC
Caius Marcius
Parentheticus
CMC
>...once wrote an essay (first posted on April 1) which proved that the plays
>attributed to Shakespeare were actually written by Niccolo Machiavelli....
Things go better with coax. How about it CMC, give us another chance to pour
over it.
David More
http://members.aol.com/marlovian
(a rash enterprise in progress)
Remove the anti-spam suffix "ment" to reply
Ronald Johnsen
To say nothing of The Tempest partly on The Island, TWT partly in Bohemia,
KJ in England and France, T&C in Troy, Timon of Athens in (gasp) Athens, Hamlet
in Denmark, Macbeth in Scotland, etc.
Streitz, you are a complete idiot. Go find somewhere else to play.
Peter Zenner
>I once wrote an essay (first posted on April 1) which proved that the plays
>attributed to Shakespeare were actually written by Niccolo Machiavelli.
>Coax me a little, and I'll repost it.
Coax, coax. Coax, coax. Don't forget that Marlowe was very
much influenced by the writings of Machiavelli and Aretino.
If cobbler's son, Aretino, could find power using Machiavellian
techniques, then that was good enough for Marlowe. He was,
of course, also a cobbler's son.
That rise to power is detailed in 'Sejanus' and that's why he
had to be stopped -- atheism was an additional charge, not
the main charge.
Peter Zenner
xxxx
English are set in Italy (country that does not seem enjoys much esteem in
the anglosaxon countries) which other " prove" would be in support of this
thesis.
I had read from some part that effectively a Scrollalanza (Shakespere in
italian) made part of the enturage of Shakespere.
Ronald Johnsen ha scritto nel messaggio <393DCD85...@home.net>...
David....@dartmouth.edu
"Caius Marcius" <cori...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> paul streitz <pfst...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:8hj8ab$6nt$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > In article <8hhfko$1ib$1...@nslave2.tin.it>,
> > "xxxx" <g...@tin.it> wrote:
> > > In Italy it has been published a book in which it is supported that
> > such
> > > Gugliemo Scrollalanza, or Scollalacia, been born in the just period
> > for
> >
> > To give you some background on Italy and Shakespeare and then try to
> > answer your question.
> >
> > The plays of Shakespeare show a strong preference for and knowledge of
> > Italy. Only one is set in a foreign country other than Italy
> That's funny - I thought LLL, AWTEW, AYLI and substantial portions of H5 and
> H6 were set in France; M4M in Vienna; MSND in Athens; Pericles in Antioch;
> 12th Night in Illyria, etc.
>
> - CMC
The most likely explanation is that Mr. Streitz thinks that Illyria
is in Italy (it sounds Italian, doesn't it?). It's hard to believe that
even Mr. Streitz is unaware that Athens is not an Italian locale
(although given some of the other comic blunders Mr. Streitz has
committed in this forum with such invincible ignorance and such
amusingly impregnable self-assurance, perhaps I should seriously
consider the possibility), so one might assume (charitably) that _MSND_
is Mr. Streitz's "only one" that is "set in a foreign country other than
Italy" -- but in that case, what of _Timon of Athens_? I can't imagine
where Mr. Streitz supposes that _LLL_ is set. Perhaps he seriously
believes the argument from Salic Law that the English monarch is the
rightful sovereign of France, and therefore that _LLL_, etc. are set on
English soil. Similarly, perhaps the explanation for _M4M_ is that he
views Vienna as one of the dominions of the Holy Roman Empire, and hence
as Italian. However, it would require more ingenuity than I possess to
account for _Troilus and Cressida_. As for _Pericles, Prince of Tyre_,
it seems unfortunately entirely possible that Mr. Streitz has never even
heard of it, let alone read it.
However, where does Mr. Streitz suppose that _Hamlet_ is set? The
appearance of the phrase "Prince of Denmark" in the title ought to give
him a clue, even if he had never heard of _Timon of Athens_. Does
Elsinore sounds Italian to him? Perhaps he supposes that the names
Claudius and Horatio sound Italian, therefore the play must have an
Italian setting.
Indeed, one might well use Mr. Streitz's own "methods" (if I may
dignify them as such) to draw rather different inferences than he does.
The fact that the author of the canon sets much of _AYLI_ in the Arden
Forest should convince Mr. Streitz that the man from Stratford must have
been the author (after all, Arden was a family name). The instance Mr.
Streitz cites of Oxford bringing Elizabeth some embroidered gloves from
Italy is surely telling, since the man from Stratford was the son of a
glover. Perhaps _Love's Labours Lost_ is a corruption of _Gloves'
Labours' Cost_?
One can only hope that Mr. Streitz will enlighten his audience with
some of these discoveries in the evangelizing lectures he gives
periodically at the public library.
David Webb
G. De Gregorio
is not seriously sostenibile thath the bard was Italian (or not?:-). However
thanks England for have given us Shakespeare.
<David....@Dartmouth.edu> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:8hoa79$vng$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
John W. Kennedy
> Similarly, perhaps the explanation for _M4M_ is that he
> views Vienna as one of the dominions of the Holy Roman Empire, and hence
> as Italian.
To be fair, Shakespeare seems possibly to have thought the same thing.