Low level
CB
bob the dog
"CB" <ch...@worldonline.fr> wrote in message
news:8friup$9ko$1...@aldebaran.worldonline.fr...
> Please what is the low level format for hard drive
>
>
bob
Chance
level, actually formatting each sector. It's usuall done through the BIOS.
See your BIOS or motherboard documentation for more information.
-Chance
Deniz Oezmen
> It's called "low level" because you are formatting the drive at the lowest
> level, actually formatting each sector. It's usuall done through the BIOS.
> See your BIOS or motherboard documentation for more information.
Actually, most modern drives cannot be really low-level formatted anymore... at
least not in the sense it was used in earlier days (i.e. setting the hard
sector markings newly).
> -Chance
>
> "CB" <ch...@worldonline.fr> wrote in message
> news:8friup$9ko$1...@aldebaran.worldonline.fr...
> > Please what is the low level format for hard drive
> >
> >
> >
--
Regards, Deniz Oezmen
eMail: <Quantensprung [at] GMX [dot] net>
Sugien
"Craig C.B. Knauer" <cc...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:GwnU4.10435$Lp1.2...@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net...
> To add to the last post...
>
> Low level formatting is done at the factory where the tracks and
sectors of
> the disk are outlined and written on the platters.
>
> In the old days, hard disks came with a utility for low level
formatting (or
> it would be built into the BIOS). The software would have the drive
specs
> so it could do a proper low level format for that drive, or you would
> manually enter the information based on provided documentation.
>
> With modern drives you should never do a low level format. You could
damage
> your hard drive and/or render it unusable. Once you low level format
a
> drive all data is permanently lost. Not even a data recovery firm can
help
> you.
Quite wrong, I personaly have see a HD LLF 3 times then dumped in
saltwater over night, and then the data recovered. It was part of a
presentation for a Data Recovery Company.
> Craig
>
> "Deniz Oezmen" <quante...@gmx.net> wrote in message
> news:3921AC1C...@gmx.net...
kurt wismer
>
> Please what is the low level format for hard drive
it is something that you never need to worry about... it is something
that you never need to do and doesn't even do anything on recent
hardware anyways...
--
"i'm gonna break
i'm gonna break my
i'm gonna break my rusty cage
and run"
Craig C.B. Knauer
Low level formatting is done at the factory where the tracks and sectors of
the disk are outlined and written on the platters.
In the old days, hard disks came with a utility for low level formatting (or
it would be built into the BIOS). The software would have the drive specs
so it could do a proper low level format for that drive, or you would
manually enter the information based on provided documentation.
With modern drives you should never do a low level format. You could damage
your hard drive and/or render it unusable. Once you low level format a
drive all data is permanently lost. Not even a data recovery firm can help
you.
Craig
"Deniz Oezmen" <quante...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:3921AC1C...@gmx.net...
> Chance schrieb:
>
> > It's called "low level" because you are formatting the drive at the
lowest
> > level, actually formatting each sector. It's usuall done through the
BIOS.
> > See your BIOS or motherboard documentation for more information.
>
> Actually, most modern drives cannot be really low-level formatted
anymore... at
> least not in the sense it was used in earlier days (i.e. setting the hard
> sector markings newly).
>
> > -Chance
> >
> > "CB" <ch...@worldonline.fr> wrote in message
> > news:8friup$9ko$1...@aldebaran.worldonline.fr...
> > > Please what is the low level format for hard drive
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
CB
How can I have the low level format, with the BIOS?
Sugien <gen...@mindless.com> a écrit dans le message :
fKoU4.270$z4.4...@nntp2.onemain.com...
>
>
> "Craig C.B. Knauer" <cc...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
> news:GwnU4.10435$Lp1.2...@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net...
> >
> > Low level formatting is done at the factory where the tracks and
> sectors of
> > the disk are outlined and written on the platters.
> >
> > In the old days, hard disks came with a utility for low level
> formatting (or
> > it would be built into the BIOS). The software would have the drive
> specs
> > so it could do a proper low level format for that drive, or you would
> > manually enter the information based on provided documentation.
> >
> > With modern drives you should never do a low level format. You could
> damage
> > your hard drive and/or render it unusable. Once you low level format
> a
> > drive all data is permanently lost. Not even a data recovery firm can
> help
> > you.
> saltwater over night, and then the data recovered. It was part of a
> presentation for a Data Recovery Company.
>
>
Deniz Oezmen
> Thank everybody.
> How can I have the low level format, with the BIOS?
Probably not at all. Most modern HDs (or better: HD controllers) prevent
themselves from being low-level formatted by pretending they fulfill the
action, but doing nothing at all.
If you really want to start over, look at the webpage of your HD manufacturer.
Most provide utilities for managing disks without DOS utilities.
If you have an SCSI disk, the BIOS of your SCSI host adapter should have built
this functionality into it.
[snip]
Mark8899
Look at the manufacturers website. They probably have a
specific program to LLF their HDD's, as compared to using the
function in your BIOS. As others have mentioned, if done wrong,
you can make a real mess for yourself.
Mark Kent
"We only get what we give."
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Pierre Vandevenne
>Quite wrong, I personaly have see a HD LLF 3 times then dumped in
>saltwater over night, and then the data recovered. It was part of a
>presentation for a Data Recovery Company.
Nice demo, but not necessarily what it seems it is...
How did they do that presentation ? Were people attending the LLF, then
waiting all night by the sea, then attending the data recovery ?
What type of drive was it ? What LLF ? Was the drive dumped into the sea for
24 hours or in a tank ? If a tank, what was the exact composition of the
water ? How was the data recovered, through the use of a MFM microscope, of
"proprietary" software ?
Was it a video presentation ?
( I once personally saw a Macintosh Virus blow an Alien Mothership. )
---
Pierre Vandevenne, MD
www.datarescue.com, home of the IDA Pro Disassembler
Sugien
"Pierre Vandevenne" <pie...@datarescue.com> wrote in message
news:8fu6lq$2tc...@be.kpnqwest.net...
> In article <fKoU4.270$z4.4...@nntp2.onemain.com>, "Sugien"
<gen...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> >Quite wrong, I personaly have see a HD LLF 3 times then dumped in
> >saltwater over night, and then the data recovered. It was part of a
> >presentation for a Data Recovery Company.
>
> Nice demo, but not necessarily what it seems it is...
>
>
> How did they do that presentation ? Were people attending the LLF,
then
> waiting all night by the sea, then attending the data recovery ?
The company I was representing had our own in-hourse expert on LLF, he
did the LLF at our company before I went..
Each company that was at the presentation brought there own pre LLF'ed
drive
ALL the HD's were placed in a Large adquatic tank filled with sea water,
like those used at seaword that has the viewing area underground with
the large glass viewing ports. Our company hired bonded security guards
to watch it untill I came back the next day.
Note: the fact it was placed in sea watter is moot; because HD platters
are sealed in an air tight housing, and 24 hours isn't suficient time
for
coroson to be a factor
> What type of drive was it ? What LLF ? Was the drive dumped into the
sea for
> 24 hours or in a tank ? If a tank, what was the exact composition of
the
normal sea water pumped into the tank, was a tank large enough to hold
killer wales and do shows.
The drive I brought was a Quantum Fireball Big Foot which I brought
with me, just about every HD manfacture
was represented by the companys that were there; because each company
brought there own pre LLF'd drive
> water ? How was the data recovered, through the use of a MFM
microscope, of
> "proprietary" software ?
They did not eleborate on what techniques they used; because of security
concerns of industral esponage.
> Was it a video presentation ?
No
When the HD's were taken out they took them to there lab, and a little
over a week later (I had a nice vacation at company expence while
waiting)
I verified the drive, by serial number and by the recovered data, which
they had NO way of knowing what was on the drive before the LLF
> ( I once personally saw a Macintosh Virus blow an Alien Mothership. )
>
>
> ---
> Pierre Vandevenne, MD
> www.datarescue.com, home of the IDA Pro Disassembler
>
>
>
--
/}
@###{ ]::::::Dino-Soft Software::::::>
\}
http://www.zoomnet.net/~quick
http://www.zoomnet.net/~quick/make-money
Pierre Vandevenne
>The company I was representing had our own in-hourse expert on LLF, he
>did the LLF at our company before I went..
Ah, cool. LLF experts - didn't know that existed.
>the large glass viewing ports. Our company hired bonded security guards
>to watch it untill I came back the next day.
Jeez, a company with a large budget to spend on test procedures. Impressive.
>Note: the fact it was placed in sea watter is moot; because HD platters
>are sealed in an air tight housing, and 24 hours isn't suficient time
>for coroson to be a factor
It is not a moot point at all. The disks are _not_ waterproof and not
necessarily air tight, a lot of them just use a dust filter, for your
information. Corrosion, I believed this is how it is spelled, isn't
necessarily a factor, I agree but other factors come into play... I am
suprised you weren't informed by your company.
>normal sea water pumped into the tank, was a tank large enough to hold
>killer wales and do shows.
>The drive I brought was a Quantum Fireball Big Foot which I brought
>with me, just about every HD manfacture
>was represented by the companys that were there; because each company
>brought there own pre LLF'd drive
A lot of disks have non-standard functions that allows them to perform true
erases. If a manufacturer wants to erase data on its hard disk, they can.
>> water ? How was the data recovered, through the use of a MFM
>microscope, of
>> "proprietary" software ?
>They did not eleborate on what techniques they used; because of security
>concerns of industral esponage.
Ooooooooooh - I should have thought of that.
>> Was it a video presentation ?
>
>No
>
>When the HD's were taken out they took them to there lab, and a little
>over a week later (I had a nice vacation at company expence while
>waiting)
Cool company indeed - a drive, a LLF expert, security guards around the tank
and a nice holiday for the employee waiting for the drive.
>I verified the drive, by serial number and by the recovered data, which
>they had NO way of knowing what was on the drive before the LLF
Impressive indeed.
alt.comp.virus
P｡S ｰｲS 愆S ﾈｲS
What was the data recovery company's name ? Don't fear to mention it here, I
mean these guys truly deserve the advertisement.
What was the motivation of your employer to spend at least a couple of
thousands of dollars to check on a datarecovery company ?
Weren't you the guy supposed to send me a program that would destroy my
monitor ? I thought in was in beta a few months ago... How is development
going ?
Pierre Vandevenne
>Impressive indeed.
>
>alt.comp.virus
>P｡S ｰｲS 愆S ﾈｲS
>
News reader fuck up sorry - the text there was
It is even more impressive that they took the time to restore the stickers
bearing the serial numbers.
Pierre
Sugien
--
/}
@###{ ]::::::Dino-Soft Software::::::>
\}
http://www.zoomnet.net/~quick
http://www.zoomnet.net/~quick/make-money
"Pierre Vandevenne" <pie...@datarescue.com> wrote in message
news:8fureg$168...@be.kpnqwest.net...
>
> >Impressive indeed.
> >
> >alt.comp.virus
> >P｡S ｰｲS oｲS ﾈｲS
> >
>
>
> News reader fuck up sorry - the text there was
>
> It is even more impressive that they took the time to restore the
stickers
> bearing the serial numbers.
each company encribed a serial (some just put on there initials) using a
electric stylest pencil provided by the data recovery company
Sugien
--
/}
@###{ ]::::::Dino-Soft Software::::::>
\}
http://www.zoomnet.net/~quick
http://www.zoomnet.net/~quick/make-money
"Pierre Vandevenne" <pie...@datarescue.com> wrote in message
news:8furb6$168...@be.kpnqwest.net...
> In article <P8yU4.429$0R.7...@nntp3.onemain.com>, "Sugien"
<gen...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> >The company I was representing had our own in-hourse expert on LLF,
he
> >did the LLF at our company before I went..
>
> Ah, cool. LLF experts - didn't know that existed.
The guy who got the job when it need done
> >the large glass viewing ports. Our company hired bonded security
guards
> >to watch it untill I came back the next day.
>
> Jeez, a company with a large budget to spend on test procedures.
Impressive.
>
>
> >Note: the fact it was placed in sea watter is moot; because HD
platters
> >are sealed in an air tight housing, and 24 hours isn't suficient time
> >for coroson to be a factor
>
> It is not a moot point at all. The disks are _not_ waterproof and not
> necessarily air tight, a lot of them just use a dust filter, for your
> information. Corrosion, I believed this is how it is spelled, isn't
> necessarily a factor, I agree but other factors come into play... I am
> suprised you weren't informed by your company.
agreed; but they still recovered the data, the one we tested was sealed
but I am sure there were ones that weren't
> >normal sea water pumped into the tank, was a tank large enough to
hold
> >killer wales and do shows.
> >The drive I brought was a Quantum Fireball Big Foot which I brought
> >with me, just about every HD manfacture
> >was represented by the companys that were there; because each company
> >brought there own pre LLF'd drive
>
> A lot of disks have non-standard functions that allows them to perform
true
> erases. If a manufacturer wants to erase data on its hard disk, they
can.
even the drive manfacturer leaves tailtale signs of data , as was the
case in the report we got along with the recovered data
> >> water ? How was the data recovered, through the use of a MFM
> >microscope, of
> >> "proprietary" software ?
> >They did not eleborate on what techniques they used; because of
security
> >concerns of industral esponage.
>
> Ooooooooooh - I should have thought of that.
>
> >> Was it a video presentation ?
> >
> >No
> >
> >When the HD's were taken out they took them to there lab, and a
little
> >over a week later (I had a nice vacation at company expence while
> >waiting)
>
> Cool company indeed - a drive, a LLF expert, security guards around
the tank
> and a nice holiday for the employee waiting for the drive.
They procured me through outsourceing me, I was just a consultant called
in
> >I verified the drive, by serial number and by the recovered data,
which
> >they had NO way of knowing what was on the drive before the LLF
>
> Impressive indeed.
thanks
> alt.comp.virus
> P｡S ｰｲS oｲS ﾈｲS
>
> What was the data recovery company's name ? Don't fear to mention it
here, I
> mean these guys truly deserve the advertisement.
doesen't matter the company went under; was probably the exobantent
prices they charges, which is what I thold the company that hired me.
> What was the motivation of your employer to spend at least a couple of
> thousands of dollars to check on a datarecovery company ?
>
> Weren't you the guy supposed to send me a program that would destroy
my
> monitor ? I thought in was in beta a few months ago... How is
development
> going ?
>
>
Pierre Vandevenne
Then company went under ? Too bad, what was its name ? I've been around for a
while, I am sure I'll remember them.
Sugien
me. Well I have no reason to post anything that is not factual. I am
disabled and no longer work for hire in the computer field, there fore I
would not benefit from any non factual statements geared to garner
myself some type of reputation to facilitate being hired to do a job
for another company. The name of the company eludes me if you chose to
believe me fine, if not fine. As far as I am concerned the subject has
been explored to the fullest my memory will allow.
--
/}
@###{ ]::::::Dino-Soft Software::::::>
\}
http://www.zoomnet.net/~quick
http://www.zoomnet.net/~quick/make-money
"Pierre Vandevenne" <pie...@datarescue.com> wrote in message
news:8fv9hb$h8_...@be.kpnqwest.net...
Pierre Vandevenne
> From the tone of your posts, I can only assume you don't believe
>me. Well I have no reason to post anything that is not factual. I am
>disabled and no longer work for hire in the computer field, there fore I
>would not benefit from any non factual statements geared to garner
>myself some type of reputation to facilitate being hired to do a job
>for another company.
Sure.
>The name of the company eludes me if you chose to
>believe me fine, if not fine.
We we can't know for sure, can we ? I think I would remember, if I had stayed
there a week on holiday, had seen a huge seawater tank, security guards,
remembered the model of the drive, the details of the serial number engraving
on the hard disk case etc... yes, I definitely think I would remember the name
of the company that produced such a mediatic show.
OK, topic closed then.
What about the monitor trashing program you promised me a while ago ?
Sugien
"Pierre Vandevenne" <pie...@datarescue.com> wrote in message
news:8g10hq$25s...@be.kpnqwest.net...
Still working on it, I might be slow; but I usually get the job done.
I will probably get flamed for attaching one of the modules I am writing
and am trying to incoporate into the finished program; but it is
attached because I don't want to put it up on my ftp, use at your own
risk; but should be harmless without the other mods. This is just a
little monitor brightner, and is run from the autoexec.bat file from
within a loop. Each time it's run it brightnes up the display and from
within a loop trying to burn it out.
> ---
> Pierre Vandevenne, MD
> www.datarescue.com, home of the IDA Pro Disassembler
>
Jeffrey A. Setaro
gen...@mindless.com says...
>
> Still working on it, I might be slow; but I usually get the job done.
> I will probably get flamed for attaching one of the modules I am writing
> and am trying to incoporate into the finished program; but it is
> attached because I don't want to put it up on my ftp, use at your own
> risk; but should be harmless without the other mods. This is just a
> little monitor brightner, and is run from the autoexec.bat file from
> within a loop. Each time it's run it brightnes up the display and from
> within a loop trying to burn it out.
>
Flamed? No... Told to read the posting guidelines... Yes.
They're posted every Thursday BTW.
[Snip]
>
> begin 666 m1-lux.com
[Binary Snipped]
How many times do you have to be told this is NOT binaries group... E-
mail the bloody file to Pierre don't post it here!
--
Cheers-
Jeff Setaro
jase...@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/~jasetaro/
PGP Key IDs DH/DSS: 0x5D41429D RSA: 0x599D2A99
Randy Abrams
Jeffrey A. Setaro <jase...@sprynet.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.138de198b...@nntp.sprynet.com...
> In article <NVTU4.949$GD2.1...@nntp1.onemain.com>,
> gen...@mindless.com says...
> >
> > Still working on it, I might be slow; but I usually get the job done.
> > I will probably get flamed for attaching one of the modules I am writing
> > and am trying to incoporate into the finished program; but it is
> > attached because I don't want to put it up on my ftp, use at your own
> > risk; but should be harmless without the other mods. This is just a
> > little monitor brightner, and is run from the autoexec.bat file from
> > within a loop. Each time it's run it brightnes up the display and from
> > within a loop trying to burn it out.
> >
>
> Flamed? No... Told to read the posting guidelines... Yes.
>
flame :)
Regards,
Randy
--
--
The opinions expressed in this message are my own personal views
and do not reflect the official views of the Microsoft Corporation.
Pierre Vandevenne
>Still working on it, I might be slow; but I usually get the job done.
>I will probably get flamed for attaching one of the modules I am writing
>and am trying to incoporate into the finished program; but it is
>attached because I don't want to put it up on my ftp, use at your own
>risk; but should be harmless without the other mods. This is just a
>little monitor brightner, and is run from the autoexec.bat file from
>within a loop. Each time it's run it brightnes up the display and from
>within a loop trying to burn it out.
Could you e-mail it to me please ? My newsreader is really awful with
binaries.
Pierre
Sugien
--
/}
@###{ ]::::::Dino-Soft Software::::::>
\}
http://www.zoomnet.net/~quick
http://www.zoomnet.net/~quick/make-money
"Pierre Vandevenne" <pie...@datarescue.com> wrote in message
news:8g28ns$3mk...@be.kpnqwest.net...
> In article <NVTU4.949$GD2.1...@nntp1.onemain.com>, "Sugien"
<gen...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> >Still working on it, I might be slow; but I usually get the job
done.
> >I will probably get flamed for attaching one of the modules I am
writing
> >and am trying to incoporate into the finished program; but it is
> >attached because I don't want to put it up on my ftp, use at your own
> >risk; but should be harmless without the other mods. This is just a
> >little monitor brightner, and is run from the autoexec.bat file from
> >within a loop. Each time it's run it brightnes up the display and
from
> >within a loop trying to burn it out.
>
> Thank you for e-mailing the file. There must some kind of mistake
though,
> this is the code I got...
>
>
> seg000:0100 public start
> seg000:0100 start proc near
> seg000:0100 jmp short loc_0_10F
> seg000:0102 ;
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
> seg000:0102 cmp ah, 0Bh
> seg000:0105 jnz near ptr byte_0_10A
> seg000:0107 or bl, 10h
> seg000:0107 ;
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
> seg000:010A byte_0_10A db 0EAh ; CODE XREF:
start+5
> seg000:010B word_0_10B dw 0 ; DATA XREF:
start+14
> seg000:010D word_0_10D dw 0 ; DATA XREF:
start+18
> seg000:010F ;
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
> seg000:010F
> seg000:010F loc_0_10F: ; CODE XREF: start
> seg000:010F mov ax, 3510h
> seg000:0112 int 21h ; DOS - 2+ - GET
INTERRUPT
> VECTOR
> seg000:0112 ; AL = interrupt
number
> seg000:0112 ; Return: ES:BX =
value of
> interrupt vector
> seg000:0114 mov word_0_10B, bx
> seg000:0118 mov word_0_10D, es
> seg000:011C mov dx, 102h
> seg000:011F mov ax, 2510h
> seg000:0122 int 21h ; DOS - SET
INTERRUPT
> VECTOR
> seg000:0122 ; AL = interrupt
number
> seg000:0122 ; DS:DX = new
vector to be
> used for specified interrupt
> seg000:0124 mov ah, 49h
> seg000:0126 mov bx, ds:2Ch
> seg000:012A mov es, bx
> seg000:012C int 21h ; DOS - 2+ - FREE
MEMORY
> seg000:012C ; ES = segment
address of
> area to be freed
> seg000:012E mov dx, 10Fh
> seg000:0131 int 27h ; DOS - TERMINATE
BUT STAY
> RESIDENT
> seg000:0131 start endp ; CS = current
program
> segment
> seg000:0131 ; DX = last
program byte +
> 1
> seg000:0131 seg000 ends
> seg000:0131
> seg000:0131
> seg000:0131 end start
Pierre Vandevenne
Valderez
Valderex
--
Is this life, all that we can see feel and touch?
Or is this someones dream, and we will all vanish once that person awakes?
Or is this one big joke on us all?
Sugien
--
/}
@###{ ]::::::Dino-Soft Software::::::>
\}
http://www.zoomnet.net/~quick
http://www.zoomnet.net/~quick/make-money
"Valderez" <black_cloak...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8g2dtt$rme$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
Pierre Vandevenne
>Why do you say it is a mistake? did you run it? or just dissemble it?
Of course, I ran it. I disassembled it first, just to avoid finding myself
with a formated disk - one never knows these days :-) The program strictly
does nothing.
Pierre Vandevenne
>I have no need , I can write my own assembly routine to llf
As the one you sent to increase the brightness of the monitor ?
Please do.
I'll tell you what I think honestly Sugien - the "monitor brightener" you sent
us is the typical program written by someone who has had an old "Assembly
language on the IBM PC XT" book for a couple of hours.
In a few lines, you have demonstrated that
- you definitely can't program in assembler
- you definitely misunderstand the use of the old BIOS calls
- you definitely misunderstand how monitor and video cards work
There are enough virus writers and anti-virus writers around here who are
familiar enough (and much better than I am) with assembler - they will flame
me if the above is wrong... In fact, it is so bad that as I write this message
I feel a bit as if I was kicking a dead rabbit in the balls.
So where does that leave us : you are either
- a talented 7 years old
- a not so malicious joker
- someone who lives in a world that really different from the one the rest of
us live in.
So, why bother with you then ? Simply because your outstanding and
totally bogus claims about damaging hardware could scare or mislead some
casual reader of this forum given the current hysteria that surrounds viruses.
When I was 7 years old, I wanted to go to Mars and I had scribbled plans for
my rocket on my notebooks - wisely my parents decided against funding my space
program. You get the idea ?
Andy Ruddock
>
> In article <Fz3V4.143$Nb1....@nntp3.onemain.com>, "Sugien" <gen...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> >I have no need , I can write my own assembly routine to llf
>
> As the one you sent to increase the brightness of the monitor ?
>
> Please do.
>
> I'll tell you what I think honestly Sugien - the "monitor brightener" you sent
> us is the typical program written by someone who has had an old "Assembly
> language on the IBM PC XT" book for a couple of hours.
>
> In a few lines, you have demonstrated that
>
> - you definitely can't program in assembler
> - you definitely misunderstand the use of the old BIOS calls
> - you definitely misunderstand how monitor and video cards work
>
> There are enough virus writers and anti-virus writers around here who are
> familiar enough (and much better than I am) with assembler - they will flame
> me if the above is wrong...
Seems to sum it up pretty well.
> In fact, it is so bad that as I write this message
> I feel a bit as if I was kicking a dead rabbit in the balls.
LOL.
That's an expression I've never heard before, can I use it?
As good as IDA Pro is, it was a bit of an overkill using it on the
"monitor brightener"!
> So where does that leave us : you are either
>
> - a talented 7 years old
> - a not so malicious joker
> - someone who lives in a world that really different from the one the rest of
> us live in.
>
> So, why bother with you then ? Simply because your outstanding and
> totally bogus claims about damaging hardware could scare or mislead some
> casual reader of this forum given the current hysteria that surrounds viruses.
>
> When I was 7 years old, I wanted to go to Mars and I had scribbled plans for
> my rocket on my notebooks - wisely my parents decided against funding my space
> program. You get the idea ?
>
> ---
> Pierre Vandevenne, MD
> www.datarescue.com, home of the IDA Pro Disassembler
I await with interest the next installment of this most excellent
serial.
--
AndyR
-----
Senior Software Developer
Norman Data Defense Systems ASA - http://www.norman.com
PGP Keys : RSA-id=0x87A2EE71 DH/DSS-id=0x47ADFD4D
Sugien
under you. You see that was NOT my program. I sent you a program
written by a well know assembler programmer, just to see what you would
say about it. That program was originally entitled "intense.com"
written by Dwane Budzak, and was one of the power dos utilities that
came with the book "Dos Power Tools 2nd Edition" by PC Magazine on one
of the 2 disks that accompanied the book(disk "programs1"). You see I
didn't trust you with my code; because I knew no mater how good it was,
you would come back with the kind of statement that you did. So I
decided to test you first, by sending you a KNOWN VERIFIABLE GOOD
program, written by a known assembler programmer, just to see what you
would say about it, and my suspicions were correct. I will of course
forward(if I can find a valid email address for him-if I can't I will
forward it to PC Magazine and let them know they put a non functioning
program out written by a 7 year old) your comments about the code, to
the code author, I am sure he will be interested in your analysis of his
program.
You can expect to receive NO programs from me in the future;
because you have proven your self to be unreliable. I will continue my
experiments into what can and can NOT be done to hardware by software.
When and or if I get a working model poc I will post it to reliable
ezines such as packetstorm, and a few other select security web pages,
that already have some of my stuff posted.
btw, The only idea I get is that you most likely should have chosen a
different career in life; because you suck at the one you are in now, as
amply demonstrated by you analysis of the monitor program.
--
/}
@###{ ]::::::Dino-Soft Software::::::>
\}
http://www.zoomnet.net/~quick
http://www.zoomnet.net/~quick/make-money
"Pierre Vandevenne" <pie...@datarescue.com> wrote in message
news:8g3f11$1vk...@be.kpnqwest.net...
> In article <Fz3V4.143$Nb1....@nntp3.onemain.com>, "Sugien"
<gen...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> >I have no need , I can write my own assembly routine to llf
>
> As the one you sent to increase the brightness of the monitor ?
>
> Please do.
>
> I'll tell you what I think honestly Sugien - the "monitor brightener"
you sent
> us is the typical program written by someone who has had an old
"Assembly
> language on the IBM PC XT" book for a couple of hours.
>
> In a few lines, you have demonstrated that
>
> - you definitely can't program in assembler
> - you definitely misunderstand the use of the old BIOS calls
> - you definitely misunderstand how monitor and video cards work
>
> There are enough virus writers and anti-virus writers around here who
are
> familiar enough (and much better than I am) with assembler - they will
flame
> me if the above is wrong... In fact, it is so bad that as I write this
message
> I feel a bit as if I was kicking a dead rabbit in the balls.
>
Pierre Vandevenne
>> I feel a bit as if I was kicking a dead rabbit in the balls.
>That's an expression I've never heard before, can I use it?
Yes, of course. Just make sure you have the Holy Hand Grenade and have read
"Armaments Chapter One, verses nine through twenty-seven" before you
effectively kick the rabbit.
>As good as IDA Pro is, it was a bit of an overkill using it on the
>"monitor brightener"!
When one only has a hammer... But in fact, I dragged and dropped, didn't even
look at the size of the file before feeding it into IDA
>I await with interest the next installment of this most excellent
>serial.
Thanks for your kind words ! Hopefully before summer, with a type system that
should allow us to recognize parameters passed to functions, when they have
been identified by flirt.
Pierre Vandevenne
>didn't trust you with my code; because I knew no mater how good it was,
>you would come back with the kind of statement that you did. So I
I documented my answer, as you can see. And I don't withdraw one word of what
I said. Even if we assume that the guy was a good programmer "at the time" he
wrote this, his program (a mere snippet) his now totally obsolete.
>decided to test you first, by sending you a KNOWN VERIFIABLE GOOD
>program,
It is not a "known verifiable good program", it is an obsolete three liner
dating back from _before_ the era of VGA cards. A quick hack even then.
>would say about it, and my suspicions were correct. I will of course
>forward(if I can find a valid email address for him-if I can't I will
>forward it to PC Magazine and let them know they put a non functioning
>program out written by a 7 year old) your comments about the code, to
>the code author, I am sure he will be interested in your analysis of his
>program.
Please do ! And don't forget to hire the security guards to keep my head down
in the seawater reservoir ;-)
> You can expect to receive NO programs from me in the future;
>because you have proven your self to be unreliable.
Have I ?
> I will continue my >experiments into what can and can NOT be
> done to hardware by software.
> When and or if I get a working model poc I will post it to reliable
> ezines such as packetstorm, and a few other select security web pages,
> that already have some of my stuff posted.
Great - smoke my monitor by sunday evening 11:59 PM Central European Time (
after all, it has been several months that you have been working at it ) and
I'll
- give you a 1000 USD cash prize.
- invite you to the best restaurant in town.
- pay the plane ticket (round trip) and the hotel expenses.
Pick any person _you_ trust from Randy Abrams to Spanska. Just deliver the
program in a verifiable way.
[ note to the regulars here : this is a public and official challenge to
Sugien - I am not joking here ]
>btw, The only idea I get is that you most likely should have chosen a
>different career in life; because you suck at the one you are in now, as
>amply demonstrated by you analysis of the monitor program.
Can you understand this simple analogy ?
If you were to bring me coal to power my fuel injected car, you'd look odd.
And this, regardless of the fact that James Watt was a great engineer.
Arthur Kopp
<andy.r...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>I await with interest the next installment of this most excellent
>serial.
Whatever happened to acv clown-of-the-month awards? Sooge is way
overdue nomination for this prestigious award IMO.
Art
Sugien
himself to be either a fraud, or a fool. His analysis of the program
was way off; seeing as how it wasn't mine; but rather one I got from
disks that accompanied an old dos power tools book(sent just to test his
veracity), he fluffed, it is an old program, but a known good program
and his analysis of it was very wrong.
--
/}
@###{ ]::::::Dino-Soft Software::::::>
\}
http://www.zoomnet.net/~quick
http://www.zoomnet.net/~quick/make-money
news:39255a09...@news.mindspring.com...
Sugien
your self unreliable. As I also stated I WILL post it when and if I get
a working poc, to a CREDITABLE ezine. You may obtain a copy from the
web pages I will post the url to the poc just like every one else. You
may have people here fooled; but your obvesoley flawed interpretation of
the code speaks for itself. Further more I don't work on my stuff by
time table, this is NOT the only project I am currently working on (not
even close to the top of my list of things I want to do), As for your
little tirade, about the 7year old, you look more like that then I, you
are the one with egg on your face, and the whole NG knows it, you can
try smoke and mirrors to try and cover your behind all you like, but you
have been PROVEN to either be a fraud, or an incompentant fool, you
pick.
--
/}
@###{ ]::::::Dino-Soft Software::::::>
\}
http://www.zoomnet.net/~quick
http://www.zoomnet.net/~quick/make-money
"Pierre Vandevenne" <pie...@datarescue.com> wrote in message
news:8g3l4u$1vk...@be.kpnqwest.net...
> after all, it has been several months that you have been working at
Jeffrey A. Setaro
art...@mindsprung.com says...
> On Fri, 19 May 2000 16:07:57 +0200, Andy Ruddock
> <andy.r...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
> >I await with interest the next installment of this most excellent
> >serial.
>
> Whatever happened to acv clown-of-the-month awards? Sooge is way
> overdue nomination for this prestigious award IMO.
>
Clown? I say we name him a full fledged Kook of the Month.
Pierre Vandevenne
>Your challenge is NOT accepted;
2000 USD ?
>the code speaks for itself. Further more I don't work on my stuff by
>time table,
Next sunday ?
>are the one with egg on your face, and the whole NG knows it, you can
I am sure they are old enough to have an opinion, yes.
>try smoke and mirrors to try and cover your behind all you like, but you
>have been PROVEN to either be a fraud, or an incompentant fool, you
>pick.
Sure : what you should do is post that discovery on Bugtraq or something
reputable like that, or even issue a press release. You know, quite a few
people working with assembler and security use our products and they will
certainly be shocked that I am a fraud and thankful to expose me for what I
really am. :-)
Let's take the problem under another angle, if you consider a 15 year old (or
so) 51 bytes long program as a "proven reliable program by a well known
author", you should be able to express yourself meaningfully in less bytes
than that, shouldn't you ? Zero would be the optimal choice.
Sugien, you seem to be a pathological mythomaniac liar without any sense of
reality. Do you know that ? :-)
In the last few days, you entertained us with seawater tanks, security guards
watching serialized factory llf'ed hard drives being recovered by a mysterious
data-recovery company (whose name escapes you at the moment but went broke)
while you were taking a paid holiday to supervise the whole process, possibly
resting from you company who employed its own private LLF expert.
Over the last few months, you have clowned around with tales of hardware
damage, talking about "stop bars" in hard drives, killing, stopping fans,
blowing monitors. At various times you have claimed to have, to be about to
have, to work on modules that would cause hardware damage.
You have never demonstrated anything though, except your deep lack of
understanding of... well everything.
Isn't it about time you come up with hard facts ?
Frederic Bonroy
> Whatever happened to acv clown-of-the-month awards? Sooge is way
> overdue nomination for this prestigious award IMO.
If I remember correctly, the current ACV Clown is named Joel. This
title was bestowed on him last May/June when he complained about AVP
detecting cracks. It's time we nominate a new one.
Personally, I give my vote to our identity forger because Sugien
at least stays on topic. :-)
Sugien
analysis of the monitor brightener was WRONG!!. I could care less what
you or any one else thinks, all that maters is what I think. I know
what I can and cannot do, you can belittle all you like, I just consider
the source and forget it. Like I said in an earlier post when or if
(because it isn't very high on my list of things I want to accomplish) I
get the poc to work within the parameters I have set for it, I will then
post a url to it. Until then you can spout any rubbish you like, the
reader of the post can judge as to accuracy. All they have to do is
read your analysis of the monitor brightener to see you had no,
intention of giving any program I would have sent , a fair appraisal as
you have shown by what you said about it. I mean come on even if it was
15 years old, that should have made it that much easer for you!; but you
failed miserably and called the code that of a 7 year old I guess just
because you thought it was mine (as you probably would no mater what I
sent). Seeing as how you muffed analyzing a 15 year old program; how
could you hope to even be able to analyze a current one?
--
/}
@###{ ]::::::Dino-Soft Software::::::>
\}
http://www.zoomnet.net/~quick
http://www.zoomnet.net/~quick/make-money
"Pierre Vandevenne" <pie...@datarescue.com> wrote in message
news:8g3oef$1rg...@be.kpnqwest.net...
Pierre Vandevenne
> You are still trying to tap dance around the FACT, that your
>analysis of the monitor brightener was WRONG!!.
It was not wrong. This snippet is of no relevance today. In fact, it lost
relevance with VGA cards, which could be dimmed or brigthened better.
Let me remind you that it was not a test of my analysis skills, but supposedly
something that should demonstrate the beginning of a way to hurt a monitor.
> I could care less what
> you or any one else thinks, all that maters is what I think.
Sure - we all realize this. That was the reason for my suggestion that it
could be that you don't really share your reality with us.
>the source and forget it. Like I said in an earlier post when or if
>(because it isn't very high on my list of things I want to accomplish) I
Why does your sig point to a "getmoney quick referral" scheme ? Do you need
money ? I have offered you 2000 USD. Why would you "beg" virtually and yet
decline the possibility to simultaneously demonstrate I am an idiot and take
2000 USD away from me ?
>get the poc to work within the parameters I have set for it, I will then
>post a url to it. Until then you can spout any rubbish you like, the
>reader of the post can judge as to accuracy. All they have to do is
>read your analysis of the monitor brightener to see you had no,
>intention of giving any program I would have sent , a fair appraisal as
>you have shown by what you said about it. I mean come on even if it was
>15 years old, that should have made it that much easer for you!; but you
>failed miserably and called the code that of a 7 year old I guess just
>because you thought it was mine (as you probably would no mater what I
>sent). Seeing as how you muffed analyzing a 15 year old program; how
>could you hope to even be able to analyze a current one?
>
I have friends who can assist me ;-)
Deniz Oezmen
> In article <39254ABD...@bigfoot.com>, Andy Ruddock <andy.r...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
> >> I feel a bit as if I was kicking a dead rabbit in the balls.
>
> >That's an expression I've never heard before, can I use it?
>
> Yes, of course. Just make sure you have the Holy Hand Grenade and have read
> "Armaments Chapter One, verses nine through twenty-seven" before you
> effectively kick the rabbit.
Chapter Two if I'm not mistaken.... =)
[snip]
--
Regards, Deniz Oezmen
eMail: <Quantensprung [at] GMX [dot] net>
Sugien
> In article <rjeV4.367$L13....@nntp1.onemain.com>, "Sugien"
<gen...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> > You are still trying to tap dance around the FACT, that your
> >analysis of the monitor brightener was WRONG!!.
>
> It was not wrong. This snippet is of no relevance today. In fact, it
lost
> relevance with VGA cards, which could be dimmed or brigthened better.
You missed the point, when I approach a problem I look at anything that
might have a possiable use in the final product or that might lead me in
the
right direction. In any project, the first thing to assertain, is if
there are any
known procedures that will acomplish any part of the desired resault. I
looked at this and disreguarded it because on newer cards the video bios
is flashable. It can be flash wrong and be rendered useless also. The
only
problem with this is that the chip is not removable in most. I am
keeping
the video bios flashing as part of the over all project; but I figured
you wouldn't
count rendering the vidio bios usless as part of destroying a monitor,
so the
project has been midified to try and flash a video card bios in such a
way that
as it goes it takes the monitor with it. The main obsitcal to that is
the many and
varied vidio cards. Another line is just to adjust the video card bios
to send out
more signal than the monitor can handle(doubtfull); but then my resurch
takes all
kinds of tangents, even the tirades of usnet denizens.:o)
bty, got any idea of what this does (just to be sure of you, now don'w
look it up,lol)
I assume you are fimilure with microsoft's debug mini assembler? (I like
writeing
small routines with it, go figure).
(note: <CR>= carrage return or enter key)
DEBUG F 200 L200 0<CR>
mov ax,301<CR>
mov bx,200 <CR>
mov cx,1<CR>
mov dx,0080<CR> (*NOTE* use 0081 for second fixed disk)
int 13<CR>
int 3<CR>
<CR> (*NOTE*enter a blank line here)
G=100<CR>
q
Sugien
if would get the same response. I chose to send a red herring if you
will
just to test the waters; because I knew he would not have an objective
opinion
as was proved by his comments about the code; because the code was good
albeit dated, it didn't deserve the charade he pounced upon it with.
--
/}
http://www.zoomnet.net/~quick @###{ ]::::::Dino-Soft Software::::::>
\}
"Randy Abrams" <ran...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:##G1$Ocw$GA.326@cpmsnbbsa08...
>
> Sugien <gen...@mindless.com> wrote in message
> news:rjeV4.367$L13....@nntp1.onemain.com...
> > You are still trying to tap dance around the FACT, that your
> > analysis of the monitor brightener was WRONG!!. I could care less
what
> > you or any one else thinks, all that maters is what I think. I know
> > what I can and cannot do, you can belittle all you like, I just
consider
> > the source and forget it. Like I said in an earlier post when or if
> > (because it isn't very high on my list of things I want to
accomplish) I
> > get the poc to work within the parameters I have set for it, I will
then
> > post a url to it. Until then you can spout any rubbish you like,
the
> > reader of the post can judge as to accuracy. All they have to do is
> > read your analysis of the monitor brightener to see you had no,
> > intention of giving any program I would have sent , a fair appraisal
as
> > you have shown by what you said about it. I mean come on even if it
was
> > 15 years old, that should have made it that much easer for you!; but
you
> > failed miserably and called the code that of a 7 year old I guess
just
> > because you thought it was mine (as you probably would no mater what
I
> > sent). Seeing as how you muffed analyzing a 15 year old program;
how
> > could you hope to even be able to analyze a current one?
> >
> Oh come on, take the challenge. Belgium was delightful country once
you get
> passed the airport security people.
>
> So, what was "WRONG" about Pierre's analysis. Rather than
demonstrating
> technical inaccuracies all you did was name drop as if a name
magically
> bestows correctness on something.
>
> You told Pierre you send him the beginning of a routine you were
writing to
> harm a monitor, then sent him a routine that wasn't designed to harm a
> monitor (or written by you).
>
> So far all I see is you failing to do one thing you said you would,
and then
> flailing wildly at Pierre for calling you dishonest submission a piece
of
> junk. Come on, how many monitors did that little PC Mag utility trash?
That
> was supposed to be the point of the code you sent Pierre, was it not?
>
> Personally, I think the whole NG sees right through you. You have some
> interesting stuff at times, but I think you lost this round. It looks
a bit
> like a first round, first punch, TKO.
kurt wismer
> From the tone of your posts, I can only assume you don't believe
> me. Well I have no reason to post anything that is not factual. I am
> disabled and no longer work for hire in the computer field, there fore I
> would not benefit from any non factual statements geared to garner
> myself some type of reputation to facilitate being hired to do a job
> for another company. The name of the company eludes me if you chose to
> believe me fine, if not fine. As far as I am concerned the subject has
> been explored to the fullest my memory will allow.
just because you aren't working doesn't mean you can't benefit... money
isn't the only reason people have for making non-factual
statements... there's the matter of the human ego, y'know...
--
"i'm gonna break,
i'm gonna break my,
i'm gonna break my rusty cage,
and run"
Andy Ruddock
What exactly was it supposed to be a "known good program" for?
Sugien wrote:
>
> you should reserve it for Pierre Vandevenne, he is the one whom showed
> himself to be either a fraud, or a fool. His analysis of the program
> was way off; seeing as how it wasn't mine; but rather one I got from
> disks that accompanied an old dos power tools book(sent just to test his
> veracity), he fluffed, it is an old program, but a known good program
> and his analysis of it was very wrong.
[snip]
Andy Ruddock
>
> "Pierre Vandevenne" <pie...@datarescue.com> wrote in message
> news:8g3so9$18g...@be.kpnqwest.net...
> > In article <rjeV4.367$L13....@nntp1.onemain.com>, "Sugien"
> <gen...@mindless.com> wrote:
> >
[snip nonsense]
> bty, got any idea of what this does (just to be sure of you, now don'w
> look it up,lol)
>
> I assume you are fimilure with microsoft's debug mini assembler? (I like
> writeing
> small routines with it, go figure).
>
> (note: <CR>= carrage return or enter key)
>
> DEBUG F 200 L200 0<CR>
> mov ax,301<CR>
> mov bx,200 <CR>
> mov cx,1<CR>
> mov dx,0080<CR> (*NOTE* use 0081 for second fixed disk)
> int 13<CR>
> int 3<CR>
> <CR> (*NOTE*enter a blank line here)
> G=100<CR>
> q
>
Did this come from the same book of power utilities?
You missed the <CR> following 'DEBUG' on the first line, otherwise it
woun't have the expected result.
You also missed the <CR> after the q on the last line.
[snip]
Actually I remember very similar code being the solution from Microsoft
to some problem or other which I can't remember at the moment.
CB
LOFORMAT.EXE
Does anybody have that?
Pierre Vandevenne <pie...@datarescue.com> a écrit dans le message :
8g4ab9$3to...@be.kpnqwest.net...
> In article <##G1$Ocw$GA.326@cpmsnbbsa08>, "Randy Abrams"
<ran...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> >Oh come on, take the challenge. Belgium was delightful country once you
get
> >passed the airport security people.
>
there
> to make sure no one tampers with the hard disks we have buried under Grand
> Place and out of which we will recover data in 2010, if we aren't broke by
> then.
kurt wismer
> Pierre Vandevenne:
>
> <snip...>
>
> >Pick any person _you_ trust from Randy Abrams to Spanska.
>
> Hey, why do you place me at the opposite of Randy?
possibly because you write and spread viruses... (then again, randy does
work for microsoft)