Children of Hugh, Count of Vermandois (1057-1102)
Nichol
Hugh, Count of Vermandois, second son of Henri I, King of France and
Anne of Kiev? I have notes for:
Raoul I "le Vaillant", Count of Vermandois, husband to (sucessively)
Eleanore, sister of King Stephen of England, whom he divorced to wed
Petronilla, sister of Queen Eleanor of France (and later England), and
finally, as a widower, he married Laurette de Lorraine, but I do not
have her ancestry. I also don't have a birthdate for him, or the
children he had with Eleanore (I know his son by Petronilla died
young, and their daughters had barren marriages).
Henri, seigneur de Chaumont-en-Vexin, no birthdate or marriage for
him.
Simon, Bishop of Noyon, no birthdate. Odd name that, Simon, for a
Capetian. Was it from his mother's family?
Guillaume, no birthdate or exact death date, nor marriage.
Matilde, no birthdate, married 1090 Raoul I de Beaugency.
Beatrix, no birthdate, married Hugues III de Gournay-en-Bray (related
to Dreux who married her sister-in-law Edith de Warenne?)
Agnes, no birthdate, married Bonifacio, Marchese del Vasto (Italian,
apparently, any descendants?) Another odd name, for the Capetians; I
can't remember having seen it before.
Constance, no birthdate, married 1100 Godefroy de la Ferte-Gaucher,
chatelain de Meaux.
And, of course,
Isabella (Elizabeth), no birthdate, married firstly Robert de
Beaumont, Earl of Leicester & Count of Meulan, and secondly William II
de Warenne, 2nd Earl of Surrey. Through her marriages she was
grandmother to (among others) Isabel de Warenne, heiress of the
Warenne fortune and sister-in-law to King Henry II of England; King
Malcolm IV and his brother King William I of Scotland; and Richard de
Clare, alias "Strongbow".
.:Nichol:.
CMc...@aol.com
Thanks for all the children of Hugh, whom I carry as Hugh Magnus de Crespi
based upon a email by Utz (Gen-Medieval 2000: 11/17/00) and AR7 (140-23 see
also 50-23 and 53-23). The source for AR is CP X: 351. You probably already
know this.
Based on Utz, however, there is a son Mehault de Vermandois born about 1080.
Good luck. Charlie McNett
Sally Laine
Laurette Of Flanders (Lorraine) c1130 - 1175 was the daughter of Dietrich
(Thierry) of Flanders c1099 - 1168 and Suanchilde (?) died 1113. Dietrich
was the son of Dietrich the Valiant of Lorraine died 1115 & Gertrude of
Flanders died 1117.
Laurette was a much married lady but I have no children listed for her.
The only children I have for Raoul are the ones by Petronilla: Isabella,
Raoul & Eleonore.
Regards
Sally
CMc...@aol.com
Laurette is listed in your email as born ca. 1130 but her mother, Sybil of
Anjou according to AR7 (164-25, see also 129-25), is listed by you as dying
in 1113. AR7: 129-25 says Sybil married Thierry in 1131. Who were the
other husbands of Laurette? Charlie McNett
Sally Laine
sorry typo Suanchilde died 1133 (1st wife of Thierry). Sybelle of Anjou was
Thierry's 2cd wife & mother of his other children
other husbands of Laurette apparently were
1) Ivan of Alost died 1146
2) Heinrich II of Limburg died 1167 divorced c1152
3) Rauol the Valiant died 1152
4) Heinrich the Blind of Luxemburg died 1196
Sally
Nichol
Mehault? Are you sure that's a man's name? I've never heard it. Is it
possible your "Mehault" is actually Matilde, "Maud" and "Mahault"
being popular nicknames for Matilde?
And since this thread seems to be branching out to Hugh's
daughters-in-law, let me add a few more queries on Hugh's women:
Did his widow, Adelaide de Vermandois, ever remarry after his death in
the Crusades?
Which was the first marriage for his granddaughter, Gundred de
Warenne, who married both Roger de Newburgh, Earl of Warwick, and
William I de Lancaster?
And a note on his name -- is Hugh ever actually called "Magnus"? I
seem to remember that "Hugh Magnus" (Hugh the Great) is actually a
misnomer for "Hugh Maigne", and that he was never called Magnus at
all. I could be mistaken...
.:Nichol:.
Sally Laine
Nichol,
I have a Mehaut listed (female) no dates married to Hugh III of Gournay died
1130.
Couldn"t find any other marriage for Adelaide of Vermandois.
Whose daughter was Gundred of Warenne ie which one of Hug's children? Thanks
Sally
CMc...@aol.com
I am sorry to call Mehault a man -- is she the same as Matilda?
Utz, in 11 Nov. 2002, was addressing the ancestors of Robert II of Burgundy
who married Anne of France in a thread called Robert II. They were:
Raoul de Beaugency d. 1130 + Mehault de Vermandois b. ca. 1080
Engleram II de Coucy d. 1148 + Agnes de Beaugency b. ca. 1108
Raoul de Coucy b. ca. 1135-d. 1191 + Agnes de Hainault b. ca. 1142-d. ca. 1174
Robert II de Dreux b. ca. 1154 - d. Dec. 28- 1218 + Yolande de Coucy b. ca.
1168 - March 18, 1221-22
Robert III de Dreux b. ca. 1185 - March 3, 1233-34 + Eleanor de St. Valerie
b. ca. 1192 - Nov. 15, 1250
Hugh IV de Bourgogne b. Mar. 9, 1212-13 - Oct. 27, 1272 +Yolande de Dreux b.
ca. 1212 -Oct. 30, 1248
Robert II de Bourgogne b. ca. 1248 - Mar. 21, 1305/06 + Anne of France, dau.
of King Louis IX
Charlie McNett
U...@aol.com
pha...@worldnet.att.net writes:
> CMc...@aol.com wrote in message news:<d6.107fc95...@aol.com>...
> > Nichol,
> > Thanks for all the children of Hugh, whom I carry as Hugh Magnus de
> Crespi
> > based upon a email by Utz (Gen-Medieval 2000: 11/17/00) and AR7 (140-23
> see
> > also 50-23 and 53-23). The source for AR is CP X: 351. You probably
> already
> > know this.
> >
> > Based on Utz, however, there is a son Mehault de Vermandois born about
> 1080.
> >
> > Good luck. Charlie McNett
>
> Mehault? Are you sure that's a man's name? I've never heard it. Is it
> possible your "Mehault" is actually Matilde, "Maud" and "Mahault"
> being popular nicknames for Matilde?
>
>
My Mehault is a female as shown below:
Descendants of HUGH MAGNUS de Crepi
1 HUGH MAGNUS de Crepi b: 1057 in Vermandois, Normandy, FRA
d: 18 October 1102 in Tarsus, Asia Minor Burial: St. Paul, Tarsus, Asia
Minor
.. +ADELHEID de Vermandois b: Abt. 1062 in Vermandois, Normandy m:
Bef. 1080 d: Abt. 1122 in Meulan, FRA
2 Constance de Vermandois
.. +Godefroy de La-Ferte-Gauvher
2 Beatrix de Vermandois
.. +Hugues IV de Gournay b: Bet. 1091 - 1095 d: 1180
2 Raoul I of Vermandois
2 Agnes de Vermandois
.. +Bonifavio del Vasto
2 Henri de Vermandois
2 Simon de Vermandois
2 Guillaume de Vermandois
2 Mehault de Vermandois b: Abt. 1080
.. +Raoul de Beaugency d: 1130
2 ISABEL de Vermandois b: 1081 in Valois, Bretagne, FRA d: 13
February 1130/31 in St. Nicaise, Meulan, FRA
.. +Robert de Beaumont b: Abt. 1046 in Beaumont, Normandy d: 05
June 1118 in Préaux, Normandy, FRA Burial: St. Pierre-de-Préaux
*2nd Husband of ISABEL de Vermandois:
.. +WILLIAM II de Warenne b: 1071 in SSX, ENG d: 11 May 1138
Burial: Chapter House, Lewes, SSX, ENG
Always optimistic--Dave
Nichol
> Nichol,
>
> I have a Mehaut listed (female) no dates married to Hugh III of Gournay died
> 1130.
>
> Couldn"t find any other marriage for Adelaide of Vermandois.
>
> Whose daughter was Gundred of Warenne ie which one of Hug's children? Thanks
>
> Sally
We seem to have a confusion here.
"Mehault" is not a male name, at least not as far as I know, but was a
popular nickname for Matilde, and Hugh de Vermandois did have one
daughter named Matilde; she married Raoul de Baugency.
I have Matilde's sister as Beatrix who married Hugues de Gournay.
Gundred de Warenne was the daughter of Matilde and Beatrix's sister
Isabelle by her second huband, William II de Warenne, the Earl of
Surrey. I have the following children listed for Isabelle:
[from 1st m.to Robert de Beaumont)
1. Emma de Beaumont, b.1102.
2. Valeran de Beaumont, Count of Meulan, b.1104. Twin to Robert.
3. Robert de Beaumont, Earl of Leicester, b.1104. Twin to Valeran.
4. Isabelle de Beaumont, b.ABT 1106. Mistress of King Henry I and by
him mother of a daughter; wife to Gilbert de Clare and by him mother
of Richard "Strongbow". Named for her mother?
[from 2nd m.to William de Warenne]
1. William III de Warenne, 3rd Earl of Surrey, b.ABT 1118.
2. Gundred de Warenne, b.ABT 1120. Wife of Roger de Newburgh, Earl of
Warwick (interestingly, the nephew of her mother's 1st husband) and
William I de Lancaster.
3. Adeline "Ada" de Warenne, b.ABT 1122. Wife of Henry of Huntington
and mother of Kings Malcolm IV and King William I of Scotland. Named
after Isabelle's mother, Adelaide?
4. Ralph de Warenne, b.ABT 1125. Named after Isabelle's brother,
Raoul?
From her two marriages, Isabelle was the ancestress of most of the
English upper classes; her twins from her 1st marriage and her eldest
son from her 2nd all played roles in the civil war between King
Stephen and Empress Maud. Her grandson was the famous Strongbow; two
more grandsons were Kings of Scotland; and a granddaughter, her
namesake Isabelle de Warenne, inherited the fortune of her family and
married 1st William of Blois, the son of King Stephen, and 2nd
Hamelin, half-brother of King Henry II.
Judging from the birthdates of her elder children, Isabelle was
probably born about 1086 or so, putting her in her later thirties at
the birth of her youngest; she died in 1131.
.:Nichol:.