CFV: soc.culture.japan.moderated moderated
Jan Isley
FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
moderated group soc.culture.japan.moderated
Newsgroups line:
soc.culture.japan.moderated Anything Japanese. (Moderated)
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 5 Jun 1996.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Shimpei Yamashita <shi...@leland.stanford.edu>
Proponent: Mike Fester <mfe...@wilbur.comp.pge.com>
Proponent: Akira Ijuin <ij...@uiuc.edu>
Votetaker: Jan Isley <j...@bagend.atl.ga.us>
RATIONALE: soc.culture.japan.moderated
soc.culture.japan (scj) presently receives over 200 posts per
day. Many of these posts are off-topic, and many more are crossposted
flame wars that bring no fruitful discussions and distract the
readership as a whole from the threads that do invite good
discussion. Newsreaders with good killfile mechanisms can reduce the
noise to some extent; however, the speed at which new irrelevant
threads are created in recent days can exhaust even the most prolific
killfile writers.
To help solve this problem, we propose the creation of a new newsgroup
soc.culture.japan.moderated (scjm). Note that this is not an attempt
to moderate scj; scj will remain active and unmoderated after the
creation of scjm.
Because of the high traffic expected in the group, a computer program
will moderate most of the traffic in scjm. The program will reject all
crossposts except to soc.culture.japan and subject all new posters to
human approval; we expect that these measures alone will reduce noise
significantly. The program may reject forward to the moderators those
articles that fall under certain criteria they determine (see
MODERATION POLICY). Those wishing to carry on a cross-discussion with
other newsgroups are still welcome to do so in soc.culture.japan.
CHARTER: soc.culture.japan.moderated
soc.culture.japan.moderated is for discussion of Japanese culture.
Appropriate topics include, but are not limited to:
Living and traveling in Japan; Japanese politics, history, religion,
or current events; and Japanese entertainment (such as anime, manga,
or pop music).
Note: A frequent source of noise in soc.culture.japan is Japan's
involvement in World War II and its consequences. This topic is within
the scope of scjm, and posts on this topic are welcome; however,
posters are encouraged to keep their posts rational and informative.
In addition, moderators will reserve the right to ask the posters to
post summaries of their opinions on a certain thread, and then cut
off the thread for some length of time (on order of two weeks or so).
Inappropriate topics include:
Topics not involving Japan.
Topics involving ethnic Japanese people that have no direct connection
to Japan or Japanese culture. (For example, Lance Ito being Japanese
American does not make the OJ Simpson trial an appropriate topic.)
Commercial, wanted, forsale, or personal ads. Presently ads contribute
significantly to the noise in soc.culture.japan. Most of these ads
have other, more relevant newsgroups such as misc.marketplace.* and
alt.personals, and therefore should not be tolerated even in scj, much
less in scjm. We do recognize, however, the utility of posting ads for
jobs pertaining to Japan, and will make an exception for a weekly
digest of job ads submitted by the readership and compiled by
volunteers.
All crossposts except to soc.culture.japan. This exception is made to
prevent the scjm readership from becoming isolated from the scj
readers who elect to stay in the unmoderated forum. Note that such
crossposts are subject to the same moderation standards as all other
posts to scjm, but anyone whose posts are rejected can repost them in
scj alone and continue discussion.
Flamebaits, or posts designed specifically to elicit angry responses.
We recognize that the distinction between flamebaits and harsh posts
is a subjective one. The moderators will use their best judgment to
decide whether a flamebait will generate enough noise to warrant being
rejected.
Moderation Policy:
Most of the moderation will be done by a computer software. The functions
of the software will be to:
1) reject all crossposts except to soc.culture.japan. (It will have to
make an exception for the FAQ, which will be crossposted to
soc.culture.japan, news.answers and soc.answers.)
2) apply filters defined by the moderators to the posts to see if they
fall under certain categories (defined below). If so, the posts are
forwarded to the moderators for review.
3) check the poster name against a list of people who have already posted
to groups (and approved by the moderators). If the name is on the list
and it did not match the filters, the submission is posted automatically.
Submissions by new posters are reviewed by human moderators for
approval; this is done to reduce the number of trollers and also to
give a chance for everyone interested in scjm to become familiar with the
moderation process. (For the latter purpose, a copy of the scj.* FAQ
and a scjm FAQ outlining the moderation policy will be mailed to all
new posters.)
If a post is marked for human approval, it is forwarded to the
moderation team for review. We plan to reduce turnaround time by
having the moderators log in to a server and approve articles
deposited on that server as their schedules allow. The server will
also keep a log of each moderators' activities, and post a summary
periodically to allow the readership to ensure that the moderators
are acting in a fair manner.
If the moderators agree that a certain topic has degenerated to the
point where further discussion on scjm may be detrimental to the
mission of the group, then a filter will be installed on the computer
program to allow human moderation of the thread; in extreme cases, the
moderators may even elect to reject the thread
automatically. Similarly, if a poster repeatedly commits abuse or acts
contrary to the charter, his name may be placed in a filter so that all of
his posts are subject to human review. In extreme cases, the moderators may
ban the poster altogether for a limited time not exceeding two
months. All such actions by the moderators must appear in the periodical
report mentioned in the previous paragraph. In particular, the list
of monitored and banned individuals must be available.
There should be at least five moderators at any given time; it should
go below that number only if the moderation team feels that no
qualified individual has contacted them to volunteer. The team is
responsible for picking replacements for any moderators who decide
to leave the team.
Russ Allbery <ea...@eyrie.org> has graciously volunteered to provide a
server from which to perform the moderation duties.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.japan.moderated
Moderator: "Shimpei Yamashita" <shi...@leland.stanford.edu>
Moderator: "Mike Fester" <mfe...@wilbur.comp.pge.com>
Moderator: "Akira Ijuin" <ij...@uiuc.edu>
Moderator: "Chuck Douglas" <chuc...@prairienet.org>
Moderator: "Jeff Friedl" <jfr...@omron.co.jp>
Moderator: "Scott Reynolds" <s...@tezcat.com>
Administrative contact address: scj...@eyrie.org
Article submission address: sc...@eyrie.org
END MODERATOR INFO.
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--
Jan Isley <j...@bagend.atl.ga.us> | Running UseVote 3.
votes to: <usenet...@mathcs.emory.edu> | Powered by FreeBSD
TANAKA Tomoyuki
> Subject: CFV: soc.culture.japan.moderated moderated
why is "moderated" repeated?
In article <8322003...@uunet.uu.net>,
Jan Isley <usenet...@mathcs.emory.edu> wrote:
> [...]
>
>Moderator: "Shimpei Yamashita" <shi...@leland.stanford.edu>
>Moderator: "Mike Fester" <mfe...@wilbur.comp.pge.com>
>Moderator: "Akira Ijuin" <ij...@uiuc.edu>
>Moderator: "Chuck Douglas" <chuc...@prairienet.org>
>Moderator: "Jeff Friedl" <jfr...@omron.co.jp>
>Moderator: "Scott Reynolds" <s...@tezcat.com>
>
the list seems pretty complete. i guess the rest of the
Tanaka-Tomoyuki-bashers will preside as unofficial advisors:
Eicher, Richmond, Friedman, Martin, Schaal, Crispin.
(who did i leave out?)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
i imagine in the moderated group there'd be a lot of unfair moderation.
here's one way to curtail misbehavior by Fester and the other
moderators (and the unofficial advisors).
the most inappropriate and/or offensive posts to the
moderated group by a member of the moderator group will
be kept in a WWW site.
(see the typical post by Fester quoted in full, below.)
they will serve as an indicator of how much latitude is
allowed in the moderated group.
we make sure that the moderation does not arbitrarily
disfavor any persons, including such as me (Tanaka) that
the moderator group has shown personal grudge against.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
guidelines for SCJ-M:
(1) what constitutes appropriate posting
(2) what happens after an inappropriate posting
(3) what happens if a moderator misbehaves
the following addresses (1).
--------------------------------------------------------------------
a moderated group is a good thing, if fairness in the moderation
process can be maintained.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
one way to counter abuse by Fester or other such persons is
having a written guideline about what constitutes appropriate
posting in the new group SCJ-M.
attached below is a typical post by Mike Fester.
he quotes many lines and adds only three short sentences:
"more capable of repentence that"??? No, neither your
ignoble self, nor TanaKKKa-gyou have posted on this
subject at all. It would therefore be impossible for
him to be right. Mike
--------------------------------------------------------------------
this typical post by Mike Fester tells us many things about what
constitutes INappropriate posting to SCJ or SCJ-M.
the following things are inappropriate.
--- quoting many lines and contributing little or nothing.
--- personal attacks using the word "KKK", etc.
--- personal attacks using strange name-suffixes, like "-gyou".
--- personal attacks about typos (see Fester's "than/that" example).
--- preoccupation with *WHO* (which poster) is right/wrong/ignoble,
rather than the *ISSUE* or the question.
(i wonder if Fester would have anything left to post.)
====================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Date: 17 Dec 95 17:09:16 GMT
From: mfe...@asoko.iisc.com (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: The Nagasaki Mayor's race
Happ...@netcom.com wrote:
: mfe...@iisc.com (Mike Fester) wrote admitting that Tanaka was right:
:
: >Takeshi Yamanaka (yama...@sag.bekkoame.or.jp) wrote:
: >: lessons.
: >: Hope You would rely on such part of Japanese in future.
:
: I think the japanese are far more capable of repentence that
: Mike Fester.
"more capable of repentence that"???
: \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
: >Yes, the Hiroshima museum now contains a part RE: Japan's atrocities
: >in Asia. Too, I happened to be in Japan for the 50th anniversery of the
: >the 2 a-bombings, and the surrender. Much of the general media was
: >discussing Japan's future, and the need for facing the past squarely.
:
: >Also, just before I was there, Nagasaki's mayor was voted OUT of office;
: >while he had picked up some fame for criticising the Emporer, and
: >getting shot for his trouble, he apparantly made it a part of his
: >campaign to demand an apology from the US for the bombing of Nagasaki.
: >At that point, a hotly contested campaign went decidely against him. The
: >people of Nagasaki seemingly did not agree.
: \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
:
: >Mike= Mikkkey festerPUS
:
: So now, you're saying that Tanaka was right all along?
No, neither your ignoble self, nor TanaKKKa-gyou have posted on this
subject at all.
It would therefore be impossible for him to be right.
Mike
Akira Ijuin
Note the header.
TANAKA Tomoyuki (tan...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
> > Subject: CFV: soc.culture.japan.moderated moderated
> why is "moderated" repeated?
Looking at some of the posts on news.groups, I'm left with the feeling
that the syntax is <newsgroup name> "moderated".
> In article <8322003...@uunet.uu.net>,
> Jan Isley <usenet...@mathcs.emory.edu> wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> >Moderator: "Shimpei Yamashita" <shi...@leland.stanford.edu>
> >Moderator: "Mike Fester" <mfe...@wilbur.comp.pge.com>
> >Moderator: "Akira Ijuin" <ij...@uiuc.edu>
> >Moderator: "Chuck Douglas" <chuc...@prairienet.org>
> >Moderator: "Jeff Friedl" <jfr...@omron.co.jp>
> >Moderator: "Scott Reynolds" <s...@tezcat.com>
> the list seems pretty complete. i guess the rest of the
> Tanaka-Tomoyuki-bashers will preside as unofficial advisors: Eicher,
> Richmond, Friedman, Martin, Schaal, Crispin. (who did i leave out?)
You're free to guess as you wish, but as always, your guess is wrong.
> i imagine in the moderated group there'd be a lot of unfair
> moderation.
If you mean moderating out a bunch of noise, you are correct.
> here's one way to curtail misbehavior by Fester and the other
> moderators (and the unofficial advisors).
> the most inappropriate and/or offensive posts to the moderated group
> by a member of the moderator group will be kept in a WWW site.
If you'd like to donate the disk space required for this, and provide
us with the scripts to do this, let me know.
> guidelines for SCJ-M:
> (1) what constitutes appropriate posting
> (2) what happens after an inappropriate posting
> (3) what happens if a moderator misbehaves
> the following addresses (1).
> a moderated group is a good thing, if fairness in the moderation
> process can be maintained.
And if you felt the moderation procedure spelled out in the RFD, you
should've said something about it during the 90+ days of formal
discussion period for this proposed newsgroup.
Instead, you chose to repeatedly post some garbage.
--
Akira Ijuin, ij...@uiuc.edu University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
TANAKA Tomoyuki
>If you'd like to donate the disk space required for this
i'll try to provide my time, disk-space, etc to fight racism and
hatred expressed by Fester and others, as i've tried to do in
the past.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
In article <4nkop2$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>,
Akira Ijuin <ij...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
>> Jan Isley <usenet...@mathcs.emory.edu> wrote:
>> > [...]
>> >
>> >Moderator: "Shimpei Yamashita" <shi...@leland.stanford.edu>
>> >Moderator: "Mike Fester" <mfe...@wilbur.comp.pge.com>
>> >Moderator: "Akira Ijuin" <ij...@uiuc.edu>
>> >Moderator: "Chuck Douglas" <chuc...@prairienet.org>
>> >Moderator: "Jeff Friedl" <jfr...@omron.co.jp>
>> >Moderator: "Scott Reynolds" <s...@tezcat.com>
>
>> the list seems pretty complete. i guess the rest of the
>> Tanaka-Tomoyuki-bashers will preside as unofficial advisors: Eicher,
>> Richmond, Friedman, Martin, Schaal, Crispin. (who did i leave out?)
>
>> i imagine in the moderated group there'd be a lot of unfair
>> moderation.
>
>> here's one way to curtail misbehavior by Fester and the other
>> moderators (and the unofficial advisors).
>
>> the most inappropriate and/or offensive posts to the moderated group
>> by a member of the moderator group will be kept in a WWW site.
>
Charles Eicher
In article <4nl2a9$2...@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>,
tan...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (TANAKA Tomoyuki) proposed to:
> the most inappropriate and/or offensive posts to the
> moderated group by a member of the moderator group will
> be kept in a WWW site.
Akira Ijuin <ij...@students.uiuc.edu> responded:
> If you'd like to donate the disk space required for this, and provide
> us with the scripts to do this, let me know.
I don't think that will be necessary.
Tanaka's website already contains many of the most inappropriately
off-topic, most repetitive, most flamebaiting, most offensive messages to
be posted to s.c.j...
----------------
Charles Eicher
cei...@inav.net
----------------
Akira Ijuin
Header cleansed once again. Note the follow-up.
TANAKA Tomoyuki (tan...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
> >If you'd like to donate the disk space required for this
> i'll try to provide my time, disk-space, etc to fight racism and
> hatred expressed by Fester and others, as i've tried to do in the
> past.
You can first start by not using fake alt groups.
BTW, the topic YOU brought up was about putting rejected posts on the
web. It WASN'T about fighting "racism".
Oh, and if you DO want to fight racism, you can first start by doing
away with your "FAQ"s.
Since you haven't addressed any of the other points I've made, I
assume you're not interested in actually discussing the proposed
newsgroup.
Seth Friedman
On 18 May 1996 06:13:19 GMT, tan...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (TANAKA
Tomoyuki) wrote:
iu.general added.
Whoever thought up that idea is on to something. Add iu.general to all
Tanaka threads, I'm sure he'd want his classmates to enjoy his ideas.
>the list seems pretty complete. i guess the rest of the
>Tanaka-Tomoyuki-bashers will preside as unofficial advisors:
>Eicher, Richmond, Friedman, Martin, Schaal, Crispin.
>(who did i leave out?)
Hey, why am I #3?
When will you realize that you get bashed because your posts are so
warped? Most people are influenced by the majority opinion, which,
though not always correct, has a moderating effect, although in this
case published material proves you wrong. Why do you label people who
disagree with you, people who often quote a variety of reliable source
material?
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>i imagine in the moderated group there'd be a lot of unfair moderation.
If you call holding people accountable for their mistruths unfair,
then I guess there will be unfair moderation.
>here's one way to curtail misbehavior by Fester and the other
>moderators (and the unofficial advisors).
What about your misbehavior?
> the most inappropriate and/or offensive posts to the
> moderated group by a member of the moderator group will
> be kept in a WWW site.
> (see the typical post by Fester quoted in full, below.)
Doesn't your own site provide "the most inappropriate and/or offensive
posts?" They are after all authored by you.
> they will serve as an indicator of how much latitude is
> allowed in the moderated group.
>
> we make sure that the moderation does not arbitrarily
> disfavor any persons, including such as me (Tanaka) that
> the moderator group has shown personal grudge against.
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>guidelines for SCJ-M:
> (1) what constitutes appropriate posting
> (2) what happens after an inappropriate posting
> (3) what happens if a moderator misbehaves
>
>the following addresses (1).
I suppose you'll now say that you helped write the guidelines for
scjm.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>a moderated group is a good thing, if fairness in the moderation
>process can be maintained.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>one way to counter abuse by Fester or other such persons is
>having a written guideline about what constitutes appropriate
>posting in the new group SCJ-M.
I assume that you include yourself in the "other such persons"
category.
>attached below is a typical post by Mike Fester.
>
>he quotes many lines and adds only three short sentences:
> "more capable of repentence that"??? No, neither your
> ignoble self, nor TanaKKKa-gyou have posted on this
> subject at all. It would therefore be impossible for
> him to be right. Mike
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>this typical post by Mike Fester tells us many things about what
>constitutes INappropriate posting to SCJ or SCJ-M.
>
>the following things are inappropriate.
Your opinion, right?
>--- quoting many lines and contributing little or nothing.
Hmm... What do you contribute but a lot of noise?
>--- personal attacks using the word "KKK", etc.
Or threatening to sue?
>--- personal attacks using strange name-suffixes, like "-gyou".
Or threatening to sue?
>--- personal attacks about typos (see Fester's "than/that" example).
Or threatening to sue?
>--- preoccupation with *WHO* (which poster) is right/wrong/ignoble,
> rather than the *ISSUE* or the question.
Well, if the poster throws out an idiotic idea, then it is the issue,
isn't it? And the person who said it is important, right?
>
>(i wonder if Fester would have anything left to post.)
And you?
What is your view on people who recycle the same posts every few
months? On people who throw out trolls? On people who walk away from
topics when they are proven wrong? On people who include non-existent
groups in their postings?
Seth Friedman
frie...@gol.com
Charles M.Richmond
Seth Friedman wrote:
>
> On 18 May 1996 06:13:19 GMT, tan...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (TANAKA
> Tomoyuki) wrote:
>
> iu.general added.
> Whoever thought up that idea is on to something. Add iu.general to all
> Tanaka threads, I'm sure he'd want his classmates to enjoy his ideas.
Thank you. It seemed only fair that they should at least get
an inkling of the mockery Tomoyuki-kun makes of I.U.'s integrity,
at least its intellectual integrity. If we can believe him, then
he has become the first scum^h^h^h^h person that I have had
personal knowledge of who is actually suing someone because of
a net-dispute. I wonder if he realises that he is giving up the
protection of net-ethics and customs. Anyone of those many persons
that he has threatened , attacked or smeared can now sue him
with a clear conscience.
>
> >the list seems pretty complete. i guess the rest of the
> >Tanaka-Tomoyuki-bashers will preside as unofficial advisors:
> >Eicher, Richmond, Friedman, Martin, Schaal, Crispin.
> >(who did i leave out?)
>
> Hey, why am I #3?
He is like the politician, except that Tomoyuki-kun is asking...
'What have you done *to* me lately' , at least rhetorically (llort)
>
> When will you realize that you get bashed because your posts are so
> warped? Most people are influenced by the majority opinion, which,
> though not always correct, has a moderating effect, although in this
> case published material proves you wrong. Why do you label people who
> disagree with you, people who often quote a variety of reliable source
> material?
>
He seems to enjoy creating racist conflict.
Charlie
--
*************************************************************************
* Charles Richmond Integrated International Systems Corporation *
* c...@iisc.com c...@koibito.iisc.com c...@shore.net *
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*************************************************************************
alan meiss
In article <319e073c...@news.gol.com>,
Seth Friedman <frie...@gol.com> wrote:
>iu.general added.
>Whoever thought up that idea is on to something. Add iu.general to all
>Tanaka threads, I'm sure he'd want his classmates to enjoy his ideas.
NO! Dammit, QUIT DOING THIS. Crossposting articles in high-volume
threads from world-distribution newsgroups to local newsgroups swamps the
local groups. This is abusive posting, so please, CEASE AND DESIST. Most
folks reading iu.general are interested in IU-related community issues,
which don't include whatever shrieking debates Tanaka is embroiled in.
Crossposting these articles won't win arguments, restrict his posting, or
accomplish anything beyond pissing off local readers. 99% of Usenet may
be crap, but at least let us keep our remaining 1% here.
--Alan
Scott Reynolds
In article <4nrrdt$n...@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, ame...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (alan meiss) wrote:
>In article <319e073c...@news.gol.com>,
>Seth Friedman <frie...@gol.com> wrote:
>>iu.general added.
>>Whoever thought up that idea is on to something. Add iu.general to all
>>Tanaka threads, I'm sure he'd want his classmates to enjoy his ideas.
>
>NO! Dammit, QUIT DOING THIS. Crossposting articles in high-volume
>threads from world-distribution newsgroups to local newsgroups swamps the
>local groups. This is abusive posting, so please, CEASE AND DESIST. Most
>folks reading iu.general are interested in IU-related community issues,
>which don't include whatever shrieking debates Tanaka is embroiled in.
Then DO SOMETHING ABOUT TANAKA. I repeat, DO SOMETHING ABOUT TANAKA.
The the chickens are coming home to roost. Tanaka has been violating
IU's rules for appropriate usage for years now, and no one there has
ever done anything about it. We in scj have made *repeated*
requests that action be taken, and appended copies of Tanaka's racist,
hate-filled postings. Why don't you email Tanaka and tell *him* to
behave himself? Why don't *you* lean on the system administrators to
make him play by the rules?
>Crossposting these articles won't win arguments, restrict his posting, or
>accomplish anything beyond pissing off local readers. 99% of Usenet may
>be crap, but at least let us keep our remaining 1% here.
Tanaka is an IU student. His actions reflect on *your* school and
indirectly on you yourself. If you dislike the effects of his actions,
then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
__________________________________________________________________
Scott Reynolds s...@tezcat.com
Mike Fester
TANAKA Tomoyuki (tan...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
:
: >If you'd like to donate the disk space required for this
:
: i'll try to provide my time, disk-space, etc to fight racism and
All this on the alt.charles groups?
: hatred expressed by Fester and others, as i've tried to do in
: the past.
And instead refer to Chinese as "Chinks", Japanese as "Japs", blacks
as "slaves", etc.
Mike
mmmizuki
In article <4nsijs$1...@tepe.tezcat.com>, s...@tezcat.com (Scott Reynolds) writes:
|> In article <4nrrdt$n...@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, ame...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (alan meiss) wrote:
|> >In article <319e073c...@news.gol.com>,
|> >Seth Friedman <frie...@gol.com> wrote:
|> >>iu.general added.
|> >>Whoever thought up that idea is on to something. Add iu.general to all
|> >>Tanaka threads, I'm sure he'd want his classmates to enjoy his ideas.
|> >NO! Dammit, QUIT DOING THIS. Crossposting articles in high-volume
|> >threads from world-distribution newsgroups to local newsgroups swamps the
|> >local groups. This is abusive posting, so please, CEASE AND DESIST. Most
|> >folks reading iu.general are interested in IU-related community issues,
|> >which don't include whatever shrieking debates Tanaka is embroiled in.
|> Then DO SOMETHING ABOUT TANAKA. I repeat, DO SOMETHING ABOUT TANAKA.
|> The the chickens are coming home to roost. Tanaka has been violating
|> IU's rules for appropriate usage for years now, and no one there has
|> ever done anything about it. We in scj have made *repeated*
|> requests that action be taken, and appended copies of Tanaka's racist,
|> hate-filled postings. Why don't you email Tanaka and tell *him* to
|> behave himself? Why don't *you* lean on the system administrators to
|> make him play by the rules?
We obviously have a problem here. I tend to agree with Mr.
Meiss' post that all these threads should NOT be cross posted
to iu.general. On the other hand, Mr. Richmond has pointed out to
me that IU officials have repeatedly ignored requests for action against
Mr. Tanaka. Perhaps the people who despise Tanaka can compile a list of
his misbehavior and post it ONCE every two weeks or so in IU general. If
IU students feel there is a basis for complaint, then they will do so.
If not, they can request the poster of the complaint post (via EMAIL
hopefully) to stop if they don't feel they have a case. Perhaps the
people who endorse the complaint can also sign their names on the
post.
|> >Crossposting these articles won't win arguments, restrict his posting, or
|> >accomplish anything beyond pissing off local readers. 99% of Usenet may
|> >be crap, but at least let us keep our remaining 1% here.
|> Tanaka is an IU student. His actions reflect on *your* school and
|> indirectly on you yourself. If you dislike the effects of his actions,
In my view, yes and no. There is a very fine line between
what people are allowed to say and what they are not allowed to say.
Of course, Tanaka does not speak for Indiana University, but
if his violations are severe enough and IU officials ignored
valid complaints, then it's another story.
|> then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
Something needs to be done, no question about it. It
definitely can't go on like it has with people adding iu.general
to everyone of his threads.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The opinions expressed here are my own.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
TANAKA Tomoyuki
In article <4nt009$b...@life.ai.mit.edu>, mmmizuki <mmmi...@ai.mit.edu> wrote:
>
> I tend to agree with Mr. Meiss' post that all these threads
> should NOT be cross posted to iu.general. On the other hand,
> Mr. Richmond has pointed out to me that IU officials have
> repeatedly ignored requests for action against Mr. Tanaka.
as far as i know, the IU admin people NEVER ignore complaints
about IU users. for example, a man named Charles L. Martin had
his account suspended 4 times since December for various abuses.
i have never committed any misuse of my IU computer accounts.
therefore, the the IU admin people have never given me any kind
of warning.
;;; (Mr.) TANAKA Tomoyuki (Tanaka is my family name.)
;;;
;;; WWW: http://copper.ucs.indiana.edu/~tanaka
;;; e-mail: tan...@indiana.edu
Akira Ijuin
TANAKA Tomoyuki (tan...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
> In article <4nt009$b...@life.ai.mit.edu>, mmmizuki <mmmi...@ai.mit.edu> wrote:
> > I tend to agree with Mr. Meiss' post that all these threads
> > should NOT be cross posted to iu.general. On the other hand,
> > Mr. Richmond has pointed out to me that IU officials have
> > repeatedly ignored requests for action against Mr. Tanaka.
> as far as i know, the IU admin people NEVER ignore complaints about
> IU users. for example, a man named Charles L. Martin had his
> account suspended 4 times since December for various abuses.
Funny, the example you give doesn't demonstrate in any way that the IU
admins "NEVER" ignore complaints.
Robert Ames
In article <4nrrdt$n...@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>,
ame...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (alan meiss) wrote:
>In article <319e073c...@news.gol.com>,
>Seth Friedman <frie...@gol.com> wrote:
>>iu.general added.
>>Whoever thought up that idea is on to something. Add iu.general to all
>>Tanaka threads, I'm sure he'd want his classmates to enjoy his ideas.
>
>NO! Dammit, QUIT DOING THIS. Crossposting articles in high-volume
>threads from world-distribution newsgroups to local newsgroups swamps the
>local groups. This is abusive posting, so please, CEASE AND DESIST.
I disagree. If IU is harboring an abusive poster, it is entirely just
that you should receive feedback on what the rest of the world thinks
of you.
Scott Reynolds
In article <4nt504$i...@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, tan...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (TANAKA Tomoyuki) wrote:
>i have never committed any misuse of my IU computer accounts.
>therefore, the the IU admin people have never given me any kind
>of warning.
1) Excessive crossposting to inappropriate newsgroups.
2) Posting of racist and otherwise insulting articles.
3) Posting of gratuitous personal attacks.
If anyone else wants to add more entries to the list of
Tanaka's violations of net etiquette, be my guest.
__________________________________________________________________
Scott Reynolds s...@tezcat.com
Seth Friedman
On Wed, 22 May 96 00:06:12 GMT, s...@tezcat.com (Scott Reynolds) wrote:
>In article <4nt504$i...@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, tan...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (TANAKA Tomoyuki) wrote:
>
>>i have never committed any misuse of my IU computer accounts.
>>therefore, the the IU admin people have never given me any kind
>>of warning.
>
>1) Excessive crossposting to inappropriate newsgroups.
>2) Posting of racist and otherwise insulting articles.
>3) Posting of gratuitous personal attacks.
>
>If anyone else wants to add more entries to the list of
>Tanaka's violations of net etiquette, be my guest.
I'll take up the challenge.
4. Misrepresenting opinion papers as "official newsgroup Faq's"
5. Posting to non-existent newsgroups
6. Threatening to sue people
I think we should have a rule here, nobody should add more than three
items per person. Come on everyone, (arm waving forward) join in, it's
fun to make a list of all Tanaka has done wrong. Just remember,
according to him he's only been wrong once.
Seth Friedman
frie...@gol.com
http://www2.gol.com/users/friedman/
Pete Kimball
Mike Fester (mfe...@asoko.iisc.com) wrote:
: TANAKA Tomoyuki (tan...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
: : >If you'd like to donate the disk space required for this
: : i'll try to provide my time, disk-space, etc to fight racism and
: : the past.
: And instead refer to Chinese as "Chinks", Japanese as "Japs", blacks
: as "slaves", etc.
Well, as a member of the USENET community with a responsibility for
voting on the creation of s.c.j.m., I have some problems here.
Because of the virtually unlimited powers of the moderators of a
moderated group, it is important that they be trustworthy, principled,
and unbiased, as the decision will be nearly impossible to reverse.
Furthermore, because of the importance of Japan in the world, and because
we can only expect its importance within USENET to grow very rapidly
in the coming years, the selection of moderators for s.c.j.m. is really
an important decision. I say this because I recognize from glancing at
s.c.j. that there really IS a horrible amount of spam there, and so we
can predict that serious people will much RATHER post to s.c.j.m than
to s.c.j.
Accordingly, I made it my business to go through s.c.j. and read every
recent post by the proposed moderators.
In every case but one, I found nothing to suggest that they would be
biased or unworthy moderators.
However, there IS this guy Michael Fester. He is clearly in an ongoing
chronic flamewar with T. Tanaka. He does refer to him as 'TanaKKKa',
which is stronger language than I would use of anyone short of an avowed
Nazi. He does call him 'Tanaka-gyou' and other such things, and I have
no idea what they mean, unless they mean something like 'the
ignoble Tanaka' (which he calls Tanaka elsewhere).
Well, Tanaka has posted here and said that Fester is biased and should
not be a moderator of s.c.j.m. What we SHOULD hear, then, is some
discussion of how or whether Fester will be able to set his personal
feelings aside when he is called upon to make decisions regarding a post,
the content of which he disagrees with and/or the author of whom he
dislikes (such as Tanaka's posts). Fester might want to say,
"although I really hate Tanaka I think that his posts are on-topic."
Or he might want to say, "The following is the sort of post that I
would disapprove." Or he might want to say, "I will make a point of
referring Tanaka's posts to someone else for approval or disapproval."
(Of course it is not just a case ONLY of Tanaka, but of other similar
situations that are pretty much guaranteed to come up in the future.)
What we in fact are getting here instead
in news.groups are statements to the effect that Tanaka really is a bad
person, and references to old arguments which are doubtless well known to
long-time readers of s.c.j. but which are no help to any of the rest
of us who are in favor of the proposition that USENET group moderators
should be chosen carefully and be particularly principled people.
Without more, it will be difficult for me to vote YES on s.c.j.m.
P. Kimball
ACHE
These are my personal views only, and do not represent my employer or any
other entity
Akira Ijuin
Pete Kimball (ach...@flowbee.interaccess.com) wrote:
> Because of the virtually unlimited powers of the moderators of a
> moderated group, it is important that they be trustworthy,
> principled, and unbiased, as the decision will be nearly impossible
> to reverse.
As stated on the CFV, a summary of the activities of the moderators
will be made available to ensure that the moderation is conducted in a
fair manner. As one of the proponents of soc.culture.japan.moderated,
I felt this would guarantee fair moderation. If you do not agree,
what is your source of concern, and why was it not voiced during the
formal discussion period?
> However, there IS this guy Michael Fester. He is clearly in an
> ongoing chronic flamewar with T. Tanaka. He does refer to him as
> 'TanaKKKa', which is stronger language than I would use of anyone
> short of an avowed Nazi. He does call him 'Tanaka-gyou' and other
> such things, and I have no idea what they mean, unless they mean
> something like 'the ignoble Tanaka' (which he calls Tanaka
> elsewhere).
Roughly translated, Tanaka-gyou means Tanaka the parasite.
> Well, Tanaka has posted here and said that Fester is biased and
> should not be a moderator of s.c.j.m. What we SHOULD hear, then, is
> some discussion of how or whether Fester will be able to set his
> personal feelings aside when he is called upon to make decisions
> regarding a post, the content of which he disagrees with and/or the
> author of whom he dislikes (such as Tanaka's posts).
Mr. Fester maintains (or maintained) a list of frequently argued
topics (refered to as FAT). In it, he makes extensive effort to make
sure that all sides are presented. It is clear that he has very
strong opinions in the topics himself, but this did not affect the
fairness of the FAT. Given that, I have no reason to think that
personal feelings will interfere with his role as a moderator.
Dave-id!
In article <4ntlpl$5...@tepe.tezcat.com>, Scott Reynolds <s...@tezcat.com> wrote:
>In article <4nt504$i...@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, tan...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (TANAKA Tomoyuki) wrote:
>
>>i have never committed any misuse of my IU computer accounts.
>>therefore, the the IU admin people have never given me any kind
>>of warning.
>
>1) Excessive crossposting to inappropriate newsgroups.
>2) Posting of racist and otherwise insulting articles.
>3) Posting of gratuitous personal attacks.
>
Er, these don't seem to violate any IU-UCS Computing reg's... they
are not a breach of the contract all students have with UCS...
you may not like them, but such is life......
Dave-id
--
Dave-id Huberman ||||| "Candy is Dandy,
Senior, Telecom & Urban Planning ||||| but
Indiana University, Bloomington ||||| Sex won't rot your teeth!"
DHUB...@indiana.edu ||||| -Willy Wonka... sort of
Bill Franke
Pete Kimball (ach...@flowbee.interaccess.com) wrote:
: Well, as a member of the USENET community with a responsibility for
: voting on the creation of s.c.j.m., I have some problems here.
: Because of the virtually unlimited powers of the moderators of a
: moderated group, it is important that they be trustworthy, principled,
: and unbiased, as the decision will be nearly impossible to reverse.
Their decisions, according to the Charter, and, therefore, their fitness
for office will be under both peer review and poster review. Let's face
it, if they do a bad job and turn out to unexpectedly metamorphose into
untrustworthy, unprincipled, and biased jerks, no one will use scjm.
: Furthermore, because of the importance of Japan in the world, and because
: we can only expect its importance within USENET to grow very rapidly
: in the coming years, the selection of moderators for s.c.j.m. is really
: an important decision. I say this because I recognize from glancing at
: s.c.j. that there really IS a horrible amount of spam there, and so we
: can predict that serious people will much RATHER post to s.c.j.m than
: to s.c.j.
So without creating scjm, we will have to go through another 3 months of
spam and only spam. It seems easier to deal with the problem of one
moderator who steps over the line than a few dozen spammers with multiple
accounts and no respect for anyone. See the charter below.
: Without more, it will be difficult for me to vote YES on s.c.j.m.
Below are the relevant portions of the charter of scjm (proposed). Please
note the underscored parts. Nowhere does it say that Mike Fester or any
other moderator will be able to act unilaterally without any oversight
from either the other moderators or the group particpants as a whole.
Also, it is clear that most of the moderation will be performed
automatically by computer, not specially by Mike Fester, who-might-be-on-
the-lookout-for-anything-posted-by-the-(IMHO)justly-reviled-by-most-who-
post-here-Tanaka Tomoyuki.
I have had my quarrels with Mike Fester about his constant responses to
Tanaka's usually absurd and frequently offensive posts, but it seems
clear to me that Tanaka Tomoyuki is neither the sole nor the primary
reason for wanting scjm; rather, there have been a host of NG-trashers
posting here for the past 6-12 months who have driven away most of the
serious posters and reduced the content of this NG to something on the
order of a linguistic and ideological sewer.
It seems equally clear to me that Mike Fester is very capable of rising
above his personal feelings for any particular poster: he has done so in
the past, IMHO. Tanaka Tomoyuki only appears to be an exception because
so much of what he says is ludicrous, offensive, and absurd and therefore
almost never gives anyone who dislikes him the opportunity to state that
they agree with one or his points -- although that has happened once or
twice. I haven't seen anyone among the proposed moderators supporting
the nefarious TT; Mike Fester is not the only one among them who
obviously thinks little of what he spews forth.
In short, despite having engaged in a couple of rather acrimonious flame
wars myself with Mike Fester, I have no fear that he will lower himself to
singling out posts by me or Tanaka Tomoyuki or anyone else he has taken
issue with in this NG simply because he might have a moderator's power to
do so for a couple of weeks: He will not be the sole moderator. In
addition, I think that the other proposed moderators are sufficiently
trustworthy, principled, and unbiased enough to have refused to allow Mike
Fester to be among them had they thought, as you seem to, that Mike Fester
might not be able to perform appropriately as a moderator.
Bill Franke
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
CHARTER: soc.culture.japan.moderated
[snip]
Flamebaits, or posts designed specifically to elicit angry responses.
We recognize that the distinction between flamebaits and harsh posts
is a subjective one. The moderators will use their best judgment to
decide whether a flamebait will generate enough noise to warrant being
rejected.
Moderation Policy:
Most of the moderation will be done by a computer software.
[snip]
If a post is marked for human approval, it is forwarded to the
moderation team for review. We plan to reduce turnaround time by
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
having the moderators log in to a server and approve articles
deposited on that server as their schedules allow. The server will
also keep a log of each moderators' activities, and post a summary
periodically to allow the readership to ensure that the moderators
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
are acting in a fair manner.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If the moderators agree that a certain topic has degenerated to the point
where further discussion on scjm may be detrimental to the mission of the
group, then a filter will be installed on the computer program to allow
human moderation of the thread; in extreme cases,
the moderators may even elect to reject the thread automatically.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Similarly, if a poster repeatedly commits abuse or acts contrary to the
charter, his name may be placed in a filter so that all of his posts are
subject to human review. In extreme cases, the moderators may ban the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
poster altogether for a limited time not exceeding two months. All such
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
actions by the moderators must appear in the periodical report mentioned
in the previous paragraph. In particular, the list of monitored and banned
individuals must be available.
[NB: The last two underscored phrases say "the moderators" not "a
moderator".]
[snip]
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.japan.moderated
Moderator: "Shimpei Yamashita" <shi...@leland.stanford.edu>
Moderator: "Mike Fester" <mfe...@wilbur.comp.pge.com>
Moderator: "Akira Ijuin" <ij...@uiuc.edu>
Moderator: "Chuck Douglas" <chuc...@prairienet.org>
Moderator: "Jeff Friedl" <jfr...@omron.co.jp>
Moderator: "Scott Reynolds" <s...@tezcat.com>
Kenji Adzuma
In article <4o25u7$h...@nntp.interaccess.com>, ach...@interaccess.com wrote:
[cut]
> Well, Tanaka has posted here and said that Fester is biased and should
> not be a moderator of s.c.j.m. What we SHOULD hear, then, is some
> discussion of how or whether Fester will be able to set his personal
> feelings aside when he is called upon to make decisions regarding a post,
> the content of which he disagrees with and/or the author of whom he
> dislikes (such as Tanaka's posts). Fester might want to say,
> "although I really hate Tanaka I think that his posts are on-topic."
> Or he might want to say, "The following is the sort of post that I
> would disapprove." Or he might want to say, "I will make a point of
> referring Tanaka's posts to someone else for approval or disapproval."
> (Of course it is not just a case ONLY of Tanaka, but of other similar
> situations that are pretty much guaranteed to come up in the future.)
Voting on the creation of scjm should not be thought as a referendum on
proposed moderators. This point is important, because moderators are
volunteers.
Any moderated groups will DIE if no one is willing to moderate the group,
and no one would be willing to moderate if the "standard" for moderators
was set in such a way that would please everyone.
There is no human on this planet who can provide the moderation that is
seen unbiased to everyone. This very fact will provide a perfect
ammunition for the chronic "flamers" who will therefore try to destroy the
scjm by smearing the moderators. That's what Tanaka is doing already.
For example, the flamer(s) might first send a post which contains the
defamation of a certain moderator. Upon rejection, s/he would then start
a smear campaign, in scj, against the moderator for being "unfair",
"biased", etc.
Not everyone can tolerate this sort of meaningless harassment for long,
particularly because the moderators are not paid.
In my opinion, Mike is a perfect moderator in this regard. He isn't
necessarily a type of person who would suffer from depression because of
name-calling, etc. :-) Besides, he has been very reasonable for most of
the time; what more could one ask for this volunteer job?
By voting YES to scjm creation, I am accepting a real possibility that
moderators' behavior may not always be perfect. But I am hoping that,
with the help of moderators, we might be able to actually gain something
by reading newsgroup articles.
--
Kenji Adzuma
Shinji Tanaka
> Pete Kimball (ach...@flowbee.interaccess.com) wrote:
>
> : Well, as a member of the USENET community with a responsibility for
> : voting on the creation of s.c.j.m., I have some problems here.
>
> : Because of the virtually unlimited powers of the moderators of a
> : moderated group, it is important that they be trustworthy, principled,
> : and unbiased, as the decision will be nearly impossible to reverse
> Their decisions, according to the Charter, and, therefore, their fitness
> for office will be under both peer review and poster review. Let's face
> it, if they do a bad job and turn out to unexpectedly metamorphose into
> untrustworthy, unprincipled, and biased jerks, no one will use scjm.
>
Yes, I agree with you. I don't think this " soc.culture.japan.moderated"
is going to work. Have you ever looked at soc.culture.kuwait.moderated or
soc.culture.russian.moderated. They don't seem to work at all. I think
some moderators' stupid creed and principle will remove more
thought-provoking people from scjm completely.
> : Furthermore, because of the importance of Japan in the world, and because
> : we can only expect its importance within USENET to grow very rapidly
> : in the coming years, the selection of moderators for s.c.j.m. is really
> : an important decision. I say this because I recognize from glancing at
> : s.c.j. that there really IS a horrible amount of spam there, and so we
> : can predict that serious people will much RATHER post to s.c.j.m than
> : to s.c.j.
I don't think so. Only super-conservative, extremely PC, and boring people
will post to scjm. Their topics should be WW2 history or personal attack
to the particular individual. And moderators will remove all interesting
postings based upon their incredibly stupid values and ideals.
[snip]
> It seems equally clear to me that Mike Fester is very capable of rising
> above his personal feelings for any particular poster: he has done so in
> the past, IMHO. Tanaka Tomoyuki only appears to be an exception because
> so much of what he says is ludicrous, offensive, and absurd and therefore
> almost never gives anyone who dislikes him the opportunity to state that
> they agree with one or his points -- although that has happened once or
> twice. I haven't seen anyone among the proposed moderators supporting
> the nefarious TT; Mike Fester is not the only one among them who
> obviously thinks little of what he spews forth.
So you say that it is OK to judge people based upon an absolute biases
from the beginning. I have seen Mike Fester's posts for the last few
months. I can understand that my posting is also equally trash. However,
Mike or other moderators' postings are even worse. Their posting are
babies if you call me a kid. You don't understand how everybody except
regulars in scj feels about these stupid personal attacks toward the
particular individual.
>
> In short, despite having engaged in a couple of rather acrimonious flame
> wars myself with Mike Fester, I have no fear that he will lower himself to
> singling out posts by me or Tanaka Tomoyuki or anyone else he has taken
> issue with in this NG simply because he might have a moderator's power to
> do so for a couple of weeks: He will not be the sole moderator. In
> addition, I think that the other proposed moderators are sufficiently
> trustworthy, principled, and unbiased enough to have refused to allow Mike
> Fester to be among them had they thought, as you seem to, that Mike Fester
> might not be able to perform appropriately as a moderator.
>
> Bill Franke
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> CHARTER: soc.culture.japan.moderated
> [snip]
>
> Flamebaits, or posts designed specifically to elicit angry responses.
> We recognize that the distinction between flamebaits and harsh posts
> is a subjective one. The moderators will use their best judgment to
> decide whether a flamebait will generate enough noise to warrant being
> rejected.
>
I would like to know whether my postings are flamebaits or harsh posts.
Any moderators' opinions???
[snip]
>
> MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.japan.moderated
>
> Moderator: "Shimpei Yamashita" <shi...@leland.stanford.edu>
> Moderator: "Mike Fester" <mfe...@wilbur.comp.pge.com>
> Moderator: "Akira Ijuin" <ij...@uiuc.edu>
> Moderator: "Chuck Douglas" <chuc...@prairienet.org>
> Moderator: "Jeff Friedl" <jfr...@omron.co.jp>
> Moderator: "Scott Reynolds" <s...@tezcat.com>
> Administrative contact address: scj...@eyrie.org
> Article submission address: sc...@eyrie.org
>
> END MODERATOR INFO.
I would like to know each persons' position about things we can discuss
on scjm and what they believe in . I don't know, for example, who Shimpei
Yamashita or Jeff Friedl are. I have hardly seen those people's posts in
scj before. How can anyone trust people whom nobody knows about them.
Saying a little in scj doesn't necessarily mean that they are good
moderators. I think that we should judge the value system of each
moderators. I can not trust above personal attackers toward the
particular person at all. They are just super-conservative, extremely PC
worshippers!!!
--
Shinji Tanaka
E-Mail: sta...@scf.usc.edu
Web Page: http://www-scf.usc.edu/~stanaka
Los Angeles, CA USA
If you find grammatical mistakes in my posting, please correct me. Thanks.
Shimpei Yamashita
Shinji Tanaka <sta...@scf.usc.edu> writes:
>
>In article <4o2o1m$k...@crl8.crl.com>, kis...@crl.com (Bill Franke) wrote:
>
>> Pete Kimball (ach...@flowbee.interaccess.com) wrote:
>>
>> : Well, as a member of the USENET community with a responsibility for
>> : voting on the creation of s.c.j.m., I have some problems here.
>>
>> : Because of the virtually unlimited powers of the moderators of a
>> : moderated group, it is important that they be trustworthy, principled,
>> : and unbiased, as the decision will be nearly impossible to reverse
>
>> Their decisions, according to the Charter, and, therefore, their fitness
>> for office will be under both peer review and poster review. Let's face
>> it, if they do a bad job and turn out to unexpectedly metamorphose into
>> untrustworthy, unprincipled, and biased jerks, no one will use scjm.
>
>Yes, I agree with you. I don't think this " soc.culture.japan.moderated"
>is going to work. Have you ever looked at soc.culture.kuwait.moderated or
>soc.culture.russian.moderated. They don't seem to work at all. I think
>some moderators' stupid creed and principle will remove more
>thought-provoking people from scjm completely.
One question: where were you when we were actively soliciting opinions
about a moderated group? Don't tell me you didn't see the RFD; it was
posted to soc.culture.japan no less than three times.
The ironic and bitter truth is that the "thought-provoking" people you
speak of are leaving soc.culture.japan every day thanks to the
noise. scjm was conceived to prevent exactly that. If what you suggest
does indeed happen (which I'm going to try darndest to prevent), it
won't be any worse than soc.culture.japan is right now.
>> : Furthermore, because of the importance of Japan in the world, and because
>> : we can only expect its importance within USENET to grow very rapidly
>> : in the coming years, the selection of moderators for s.c.j.m. is really
>> : an important decision. I say this because I recognize from glancing at
>> : s.c.j. that there really IS a horrible amount of spam there, and so we
>> : can predict that serious people will much RATHER post to s.c.j.m than
>> : to s.c.j.
>
>I don't think so. Only super-conservative, extremely PC, and boring people
>will post to scjm. Their topics should be WW2 history or personal attack
>to the particular individual. And moderators will remove all interesting
>postings based upon their incredibly stupid values and ideals.
That's interesting. I'm a scjm moderator-to-be who classifies himself
as liberal and rarely posts WW2-related articles. Are you implying
that I'll purposely going to select articles that I find disagreeable
and boring? And where did you come up with the second assertion?
>So you say that it is OK to judge people based upon an absolute biases
>from the beginning. I have seen Mike Fester's posts for the last few
>months. I can understand that my posting is also equally trash. However,
>Mike or other moderators' postings are even worse. Their posting are
>babies if you call me a kid.
Nice metaphor. Now, would you like to back it up with cold, solid facts?
You say later you don't even know who I am. How do you know I write
like a "baby"?
>You don't understand how everybody except
>regulars in scj feels about these stupid personal attacks toward the
>particular individual.
So enlighten us. How do they feel? And don't forget to tell us how you
figured out how "everybody" felt, either.
>> In short, despite having engaged in a couple of rather acrimonious flame
>> wars myself with Mike Fester, I have no fear that he will lower himself to
>> singling out posts by me or Tanaka Tomoyuki or anyone else he has taken
>> issue with in this NG simply because he might have a moderator's power to
>> do so for a couple of weeks: He will not be the sole moderator. In
>> addition, I think that the other proposed moderators are sufficiently
>> trustworthy, principled, and unbiased enough to have refused to allow Mike
>> Fester to be among them had they thought, as you seem to, that Mike Fester
>> might not be able to perform appropriately as a moderator.
>>
>> Bill Franke
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> CHARTER: soc.culture.japan.moderated
>> [snip]
>>
>> Flamebaits, or posts designed specifically to elicit angry responses.
>> We recognize that the distinction between flamebaits and harsh posts
>> is a subjective one. The moderators will use their best judgment to
>> decide whether a flamebait will generate enough noise to warrant being
>> rejected.
>
>I would like to know whether my postings are flamebaits or harsh posts.
>Any moderators' opinions???
In my opinion (which by definition isn't necessarily the same as the
other moderators'), some are, and some aren't. "Harsh posts" aren't
automatically scanned out or anything, by the way, unless it's
starting to drive a flame war out of hand. This post, for example,
I wouldn't consider inciting enough to warrant being pulled from
a moderated group. (I'd pull it from scjm anyway for being off-topic,
but that's another matter.) I don't think your argument has any
credibility, but credibility is not what I would use as a basis for
approving or disapproving an article.
>> MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.japan.moderated
>>
>> Moderator: "Shimpei Yamashita" <shi...@leland.stanford.edu>
>> Moderator: "Mike Fester" <mfe...@wilbur.comp.pge.com>
>> Moderator: "Akira Ijuin" <ij...@uiuc.edu>
>> Moderator: "Chuck Douglas" <chuc...@prairienet.org>
>> Moderator: "Jeff Friedl" <jfr...@omron.co.jp>
>> Moderator: "Scott Reynolds" <s...@tezcat.com>
>> Administrative contact address: scj...@eyrie.org
>> Article submission address: sc...@eyrie.org
>>
>> END MODERATOR INFO.
>I would like to know each persons' position about things we can discuss
>on scjm and what they believe in . I don't know, for example, who Shimpei
>Yamashita or Jeff Friedl are. I have hardly seen those people's posts in
>scj before. How can anyone trust people whom nobody knows about them.
I used to post to scj quite often before the noise got to the level it
is now. It's hard to believe you've never seen my name if you read the
group diligently; I maintain the soc.culture.japan FAq and post a
pointer to it every week. Jeff Friedl was a "thought-provoking person"
who posted often until about a couple of years ago. I suggest you hit
www.dejanews.com and check out our old posts if you're really curious;
most of us don't have the time or the inclination to be subpoenaed by
the Usenet Biased Action Committee and have to answer inane questions
about our political leanings. (I should also point out that having so
many moderators is to introduce a balance in the moderators' views.
Mike Fester is obviously rather strong-minded about some issues; I,
for one, tend to be more moderate. The intent is to have everything
balance out in the end.)
>Saying a little in scj doesn't necessarily mean that they are good
>moderators. I think that we should judge the value system of each
>moderators. I can not trust above personal attackers toward the
>particular person at all. They are just super-conservative, extremely PC
>worshippers!!!
ROTFL! Of all the insults you can possibly throw at Mike Fester,
"extremely PC" is just about last on the list. I'm sure he's amused.
--
Shimpei Yamashita <http://www-leland.stanford.edu/%7Eshimpei>
Akira Ijuin
Shinji Tanaka (sta...@scf.usc.edu) wrote:
> Yes, I agree with you. I don't think this
> "soc.culture.japan.moderated" is going to work. Have you ever
> looked at soc.culture.kuwait.moderated or
> soc.culture.russian.moderated. They don't seem to work at all. I
> think some moderators' stupid creed and principle will remove more
> thought-provoking people from scjm completely.
You're comparing newsgroups with different readership, different
moderation policies, and different moderators. No, the comparison
doesn't exactly hold up.
> I don't think so. Only super-conservative, extremely PC, and boring
> people will post to scjm.
Care to disclose the basis for this?
> Their topics should be WW2 history or personal attack to the
> particular individual. And moderators will remove all interesting
> postings based upon their incredibly stupid values and ideals.
Care to share with us the reason for thinking this?
> > CHARTER: soc.culture.japan.moderated
> > [snip]
> >
> > Flamebaits, or posts designed specifically to elicit angry responses.
> > We recognize that the distinction between flamebaits and harsh posts
> > is a subjective one. The moderators will use their best judgment to
> > decide whether a flamebait will generate enough noise to warrant being
> > rejected.
> I would like to know whether my postings are flamebaits or harsh
> posts. Any moderators' opinions???
I don't bother reading most of your posts, so I wouldn't know.
Speaking ONLY for MYSELF, a post with a title like "Why Asians
Continue to Reproduce" certainly SOUND like a flame bait, though I
can't say for sure until I read it.
> > MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.japan.moderated
> >
> > Moderator: "Shimpei Yamashita" <shi...@leland.stanford.edu>
> > Moderator: "Mike Fester" <mfe...@wilbur.comp.pge.com>
> > Moderator: "Akira Ijuin" <ij...@uiuc.edu>
> > Moderator: "Chuck Douglas" <chuc...@prairienet.org>
> > Moderator: "Jeff Friedl" <jfr...@omron.co.jp>
> > Moderator: "Scott Reynolds" <s...@tezcat.com>
> > Administrative contact address: scj...@eyrie.org
> > Article submission address: sc...@eyrie.org
> >
> > END MODERATOR INFO.
> I would like to know each persons' position about things we can
> discuss on scjm and what they believe in . I don't know, for
> example, who Shimpei Yamashita or Jeff Friedl are. I have hardly
> seen those people's posts in scj before. How can anyone trust
> people whom nobody knows about them.
Shimpei maintains the scj FAQ. He posts on a regular basis, and has
been doing so for about 3 years. If you haven't seen his posts
recently, it's probably because he's busy, or because there's so much
trash on scj that he doesn't feel like posting.
> Saying a little in scj doesn't necessarily mean that they are good
> moderators. I think that we should judge the value system of each
> moderators. I can not trust above personal attackers toward the
> particular person at all. They are just super-conservative,
> extremely PC worshippers!!!
Let me get this straight. You don't know them, you want to judge
their values, and you KNOW they're "super-conservative, extremely PC
worshippers". Am I the only one to smell contradiction in this?
Don Thompson
Akira Ijuin wrote:
>
> Pete Kimball (ach...@flowbee.interaccess.com) wrote:
>
> > Because of the virtually unlimited powers of the moderators of a
> > moderated group, it is important that they be trustworthy,
> > principled, and unbiased, as the decision will be nearly impossible
>
[snip]
>
> > Well, Tanaka has posted here and said that Fester is biased and
> > should not be a moderator of s.c.j.m. What we SHOULD hear, then, is
> > some discussion of how or whether Fester will be able to set his
> > personal feelings aside when he is called upon to make decisions
> > regarding a post, the content of which he disagrees with and/or the
> > author of whom he dislikes (such as Tanaka's posts).
>
For a person who's been active in SCJ a very long time, Mike Fester has restrained himself
very well as far as not going completely nuts and whole heartedly bashing Tanaka and everything
he is. I do not think he should be penalized in any way by throwing up a couple of well deserved
names. Tanaka is like a parasite that just won't leave things alone and it is admirable that he
(Mike Fester) hasn't gone way out of his way to completely bash and slander him.
Besides the occasional war with Tanaka I think he is an objective person capable of the
job as moderator.
Jan Isley
LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
moderated group soc.culture.japan.moderated
Newsgroups line:
soc.culture.japan.moderated Anything Japanese. (Moderated)
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 5 Jun 1996.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Shimpei Yamashita <shi...@leland.stanford.edu>
Proponent: Mike Fester <mfe...@wilbur.comp.pge.com>
Proponent: Akira Ijuin <ij...@uiuc.edu>
Votetaker: Jan Isley <j...@bagend.atl.ga.us>
RATIONALE: soc.culture.japan.moderated
soc.culture.japan (scj) presently receives over 200 posts per
day. Many of these posts are off-topic, and many more are crossposted
flame wars that bring no fruitful discussions and distract the
readership as a whole from the threads that do invite good
discussion. Newsreaders with good killfile mechanisms can reduce the
noise to some extent; however, the speed at which new irrelevant
threads are created in recent days can exhaust even the most prolific
killfile writers.
To help solve this problem, we propose the creation of a new newsgroup
soc.culture.japan.moderated (scjm). Note that this is not an attempt
to moderate scj; scj will remain active and unmoderated after the
creation of scjm.
Because of the high traffic expected in the group, a computer program
will moderate most of the traffic in scjm. The program will reject all
crossposts except to soc.culture.japan and subject all new posters to
human approval; we expect that these measures alone will reduce noise
significantly. The program may reject forward to the moderators those
articles that fall under certain criteria they determine (see
MODERATION POLICY). Those wishing to carry on a cross-discussion with
other newsgroups are still welcome to do so in soc.culture.japan.
CHARTER: soc.culture.japan.moderated
soc.culture.japan.moderated is for discussion of Japanese culture.
Appropriate topics include, but are not limited to:
Living and traveling in Japan; Japanese politics, history, religion,
or current events; and Japanese entertainment (such as anime, manga,
or pop music).
Note: A frequent source of noise in soc.culture.japan is Japan's
involvement in World War II and its consequences. This topic is within
the scope of scjm, and posts on this topic are welcome; however,
posters are encouraged to keep their posts rational and informative.
In addition, moderators will reserve the right to ask the posters to
post summaries of their opinions on a certain thread, and then cut
off the thread for some length of time (on order of two weeks or so).
Inappropriate topics include:
Topics not involving Japan.
Topics involving ethnic Japanese people that have no direct connection
to Japan or Japanese culture. (For example, Lance Ito being Japanese
American does not make the OJ Simpson trial an appropriate topic.)
Commercial, wanted, forsale, or personal ads. Presently ads contribute
significantly to the noise in soc.culture.japan. Most of these ads
have other, more relevant newsgroups such as misc.marketplace.* and
alt.personals, and therefore should not be tolerated even in scj, much
less in scjm. We do recognize, however, the utility of posting ads for
jobs pertaining to Japan, and will make an exception for a weekly
digest of job ads submitted by the readership and compiled by
volunteers.
All crossposts except to soc.culture.japan. This exception is made to
prevent the scjm readership from becoming isolated from the scj
readers who elect to stay in the unmoderated forum. Note that such
crossposts are subject to the same moderation standards as all other
posts to scjm, but anyone whose posts are rejected can repost them in
scj alone and continue discussion.
Flamebaits, or posts designed specifically to elicit angry responses.
We recognize that the distinction between flamebaits and harsh posts
is a subjective one. The moderators will use their best judgment to
decide whether a flamebait will generate enough noise to warrant being
rejected.
Moderation Policy:
Most of the moderation will be done by a computer software. The functions
of the software will be to:
1) reject all crossposts except to soc.culture.japan. (It will have to
make an exception for the FAQ, which will be crossposted to
soc.culture.japan, news.answers and soc.answers.)
2) apply filters defined by the moderators to the posts to see if they
fall under certain categories (defined below). If so, the posts are
forwarded to the moderators for review.
3) check the poster name against a list of people who have already posted
to groups (and approved by the moderators). If the name is on the list
and it did not match the filters, the submission is posted automatically.
Submissions by new posters are reviewed by human moderators for
approval; this is done to reduce the number of trollers and also to
give a chance for everyone interested in scjm to become familiar with the
moderation process. (For the latter purpose, a copy of the scj.* FAQ
and a scjm FAQ outlining the moderation policy will be mailed to all
new posters.)
If a post is marked for human approval, it is forwarded to the
moderation team for review. We plan to reduce turnaround time by
having the moderators log in to a server and approve articles
deposited on that server as their schedules allow. The server will
also keep a log of each moderators' activities, and post a summary
periodically to allow the readership to ensure that the moderators
are acting in a fair manner.
If the moderators agree that a certain topic has degenerated to the
point where further discussion on scjm may be detrimental to the
mission of the group, then a filter will be installed on the computer
program to allow human moderation of the thread; in extreme cases, the
moderators may even elect to reject the thread
automatically. Similarly, if a poster repeatedly commits abuse or acts
contrary to the charter, his name may be placed in a filter so that all of
his posts are subject to human review. In extreme cases, the moderators may
ban the poster altogether for a limited time not exceeding two
months. All such actions by the moderators must appear in the periodical
report mentioned in the previous paragraph. In particular, the list
of monitored and banned individuals must be available.
There should be at least five moderators at any given time; it should
go below that number only if the moderation team feels that no
qualified individual has contacted them to volunteer. The team is
responsible for picking replacements for any moderators who decide
to leave the team.
Russ Allbery <ea...@eyrie.org> has graciously volunteered to provide a
server from which to perform the moderation duties.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.japan.moderated
Moderator: "Shimpei Yamashita" <shi...@leland.stanford.edu>
Moderator: "Mike Fester" <mfe...@wilbur.comp.pge.com>
Moderator: "Akira Ijuin" <ij...@uiuc.edu>
Moderator: "Chuck Douglas" <chuc...@prairienet.org>
Moderator: "Jeff Friedl" <jfr...@omron.co.jp>
Moderator: "Scott Reynolds" <s...@tezcat.com>
Administrative contact address: scj...@eyrie.org
Article submission address: sc...@eyrie.org
END MODERATOR INFO.
HOW TO VOTE:
You should send E-MAIL (posts to a newsgroup are invalid) to:
Please do not assume that just replying to this message will work.
Check the address before you mail your vote. Your mail message
should contain one and only one of the following vote statements:
I vote YES on soc.culture.japan.moderated
I vote NO on soc.culture.japan.moderated
You may also vote ABSTAIN or CANCEL but these are not counted as valid
votes for the total count.
NAMES ARE REQUIRED. If your mail software does not indicate your name,
include the following statement and add your name (on the same line).
Voter Name:
IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES:
Standard Guidelines for voting apply. One person, one vote. Votes
must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous,
forwarded or proxy votes are not valid. Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI
forms are considered to be anonymous votes.
Vote counting is automated. Failure to follow these directions may
mean that your vote does not get counted. If you do not receive an
acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker
about the problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote
is registered correctly. Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of
the most recent valid vote. Addresses and votes of all voters will
be published in the final voting results post.
The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of
persons who would read a proposed newsgroup. Soliciting votes from
disinterested parties defeats this purpose. Please do not distribute
this CFV. If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted
to news.announce.newgroups. Distributing pre-marked or otherwise
edited copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud.
When in doubt, please ask the votetaker.
--
Jan Isley <j...@bagend.atl.ga.us> | Running UseVote 3.
votes to: <usenet...@mathcs.emory.edu> | Powered by FreeBSD
Charles L. Martin
Seth Friedman (frie...@gol.com) wrote:
: On Wed, 22 May 96 00:06:12 GMT, s...@tezcat.com (Scott Reynolds) wrote:
: >In article <4nt504$i...@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, tan...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (TANAKA Tomoyuki) wrote:
: >
: >>i have never committed any misuse of my IU computer accounts.
: >>therefore, the the IU admin people have never given me any kind
: >>of warning.
: >
: >1) Excessive crossposting to inappropriate newsgroups.
: >2) Posting of racist and otherwise insulting articles.
: >3) Posting of gratuitous personal attacks.
: >
: >If anyone else wants to add more entries to the list of
Don Thompson
Tomiyuki sent a note to my postmaster telling him he didn't want me to e-mail him any more. The
funny thing is I have never sent anything to his personal e-mail. I leave those kind of smeaky
tactics to him.
Steve Sundberg
Don Thompson (d...@gol.com) wrote:
: Tomiyuki sent a note to my postmaster telling him he didn't want me to
: e-mail him any more. The funny thing is I have never sent anything to his
: personal e-mail. I leave those kind of smeaky tactics to him.
He treats those pseudo-newsgroups of his as personal mailboxes, though.
The easiest way to avoid the problem is to remove the newsgroups from any
posts. Or, if you want to keep ruffling his feathers, keep 'em there.
--
\|/ ____ \|/ | Steve Sundberg
"@'/ ,. \`@" | dee...@mm.com
/_| \__/ |_\ | 7361...@compuserv.com
\__U_/ | steve.s...@tclbbs.com
Jan Isley
RESULT
moderated group soc.culture.japan.moderated passes 200:26
UseVote 3.0 Vote Count - (c) 1993,94 Ron Dippold
soc.culture.japan.moderated results - 226 valid votes
Yes No | 2/3 >100 | Pass | Group
---- ---- | --- ---- | ---- | -------------------------------------------
200 26 | Yes Yes | Yes | soc.culture.japan.moderated
10 invalid votes
A five day discussion period follows this announcement. If no
serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly
thereafter.
Newsgroups line:
soc.culture.japan.moderated Anything Japanese. (Moderated)
Votes closed on:59:59 UTC, 5 Jun 1996.
This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
RATIONALE: soc.culture.japan.moderated
CHARTER: soc.culture.japan.moderated
Inappropriate topics include:
Topics not involving Japan.
Moderation Policy:
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.japan.moderated
END MODERATOR INFO.
soc.culture.japan.moderated Final Voter list
Voted YES
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patric...@access.com.au Patrick Farry
mhe...@ozemail.com.au Margaret Hender
p...@dvcr.adelaide.edu.au Peter Kenne
j...@rdt.monash.edu.au Jim Breen
p-k...@central.murdoch.edu.au Pete Kaub
smta...@uninet.com.br Sergio M. Tanaka
Douglas...@mindlink.bc.ca Douglas Hallett
ah...@freenet.carleton.ca George Sayer
cq...@freenet.carleton.ca Hank Walker
wma...@enterprise.ic.gc.ca William F. Maton
phi...@chopin.physics.mcgill.ca Martin Phipps
war...@nortel.ca jacky (j.) mallett
fram...@mail.flarc.edu.on.ca Steve Frampton
edm...@cs.ubc.ca Brian Edmonds
jmcg...@uoguelph.ca James McGarry
OGU...@sask.usask.ca I. Oguocha
war...@leaohp1.epfl.ch Ken Warkentyne
fuk...@eng.adaptec.com Tak Fukuman
dkm...@aloha.com DeVictor King Mason
LCa...@aol.com Lee Callet
Niho...@aol.com Jean W. Williams
edh...@ayched.com Ed Hall
ph...@bolthole.com Philip Brown
dc...@cftnet.com Dave
cr...@coastalnet.com R.L. Creal
10054...@CompuServe.COM Uwe Hirayama
do...@A.crl.com Don Kirkman
kis...@crl.com Bill Franke
smu...@cvimail.CV.COM Shailendra Musale
cmw...@eskimo.com Carol White
csr...@gol.com Kevin Sullivan
ebo...@gol.com Eric Boccas
frie...@gol.com Seth Friedman
gu...@gol.com Gururaj Rao
jim...@gol.com Jim (Bud) Weisser
jr...@gol.com Joel Roth
kle...@gol.com K. Lewis
l...@gol.com Louise Bremner
lsta...@gol.com Larry Staples
may...@gol.com Maynard Hogg
r...@gol.com Roger Hoffmann
stu...@gol.com Stuart Woodward
tomd...@gol.com Tom Duffy
y...@gol.com Mark Rupert
an...@harlequin.com Andy Latto
alb...@hplahj3.hpl.hp.com Albert Jeans
kirsh...@hplms26.hpl.hp.com Evan Kirshenbaum
DAVID_...@HP-Sonoma-om1.om.hp.com David Gibbons
c...@iisc.com Charles Richmond
pa...@interlog.com Trevor Tymchuk
p...@io.com Phil Brownfield
zep...@IO.COM Keith E Peyton
wec...@mercury.jorsm.com Warren J. Eckels
at...@bambam.magiccarpet.com Ataru Moroboshi
gre...@microsoft.com Greg Franklin
Michael_C...@dev.japan.ml.com Michael Chachich
sarah...@beta.msoasis.com Sarah Acker
ol...@viking.mv.com Olav Nieuwejaar
s...@valinor.mythical.com Stu Labovitz
le...@nbi.com Leigh Melton
esc...@nbn.com Ernest Schaal
bo...@sannsm.sandiegoca.ncr.com Robert Crawford
gog...@ix.netcom.com Benjamin Barrett
tgr...@ix.netcom.com Tom Griffin
wal...@ix.netcom.com Wally Jansen
cat...@netcom.com Mark Kupferman
r...@netcom.com Dick Moores
raj...@nukohost.nuko.com Rajesh Raman
m...@Panda.COM Mark Crispin
tin...@panix.com Bruce Tindall
ak...@dial.pipex.com Robert Dicken
NTK...@prodigy.com DON HORIUCHI
mros...@qualcomm.com Mike Rosenlof
tera...@qualcomm.com Daisuke Terasawa
ad...@rosa.com Adam philipp
w...@seagull.rtd.com Jane Woo
r...@quest.esd.sgi.com Roy Blackmer
ari...@taronga.com Stephanie da Silva
KLFro...@smtpgate.read.tasc.com Kurt L. Froehlich
go...@tdl.com Michael A. Hawthorne
k...@teleport.com Karel Wm. Sebek
s...@tezcat.com Scott Reynolds
mia...@beehive.twics.com Miyuki Nakamura/Dean Warman
rbr...@usnews.com Ralph Broom
inga...@vivanet.com Wayne Ingalls
dfr...@westworld.com David O. Frick
ot...@wsnet.com Wayne Simms
snow...@xmission.com Benjamin Franz
BKI...@YCA.COM Bill Kirsch
por...@nuernberg.netsurf.de Oliver Porzel
m...@agar.oche.de Marcus Breiing
mar...@speedy.physik.TU-Berlin.DE Martin Schell
tla...@email.univpubs.american.edu Todd C. Lawson
ri...@cs.arizona.edu Rick Schlichting
aot...@math.berkeley.edu Masayasu AOTANI
joe...@server.Berkeley.EDU Joe Petrow
md...@andrew.cmu.edu Michael Welsh Duggan
rd...@andrew.cmu.edu Rahul Dey
gl...@cookie.colorado.edu Glen Pankow
rog...@hawaii.edu Lawrence Rogers
jma...@indiana.edu James Marken
dkre...@xray.indyrad.iupui.edu Don Kreipke
arro...@hops.cs.jhu.edu Ken Arromdee
bumg...@jmu.edu Lee S. Bumgarner
dep...@phys.ksu.edu Brett D. DePaola
zbac...@kumc.edu Zewuditu Bachore
mmmi...@ai.mit.edu Marcelo Mizuki
2067...@MSU.EDU John Stone
fi...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu Carwil James
take...@is.nyu.edu K. Takeshita
pl...@nyu.edu Don Plym
ajbr...@Oakland.edu Anita Bretzner
cbs...@phoenix.Princeton.EDU Christopher B. Stone
adz...@rockvax.rockefeller.edu Kenji Adzuma
c...@leland.Stanford.EDU ryan ginstrom
shi...@voyager0.Stanford.EDU Shimpei Yamashita
pau...@astro.ocis.temple.edu Pam Austin
ri...@bcm.tmc.edu Richard H. Miller
r3d...@dax.cc.uakron.edu David L Burkhead
R2...@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU Belete Muturo
n...@tesla.mbi.ucla.edu Ho Leung Ng
6500...@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu Hiroaki KITANO
lan...@dream.wireless.ucsc.edu Lance K. Chun
ij...@uiuc.edu Akira Ijuin
r-pe...@uiuc.edu Richard L. Peterson
hami...@alumni.umbc.edu Diana Hamilton
na...@eng.umd.edu Naruhisa Takashima
g...@n3gb.umd.edu George Baltz
pal...@umich.edu Paul Alukal
cmwi...@uncc.edu Mike Wilson
lke...@fiat.gslis.utexas.edu Lori Eichelberger
ms...@dayhoff.med.virginia.edu Maria S. Santisteban
jpat...@cc.hut.fi Jani Patokallio
lai...@oph.fi Harri Laine
Frederi...@ens.ens-lyon.fr Frederic Moulin
arc...@hsc.fr Vincent Archer
Ollivie...@hsc.fr Ollivier Robert
can...@ilog.fr Eric Canton
Paul.A...@jpl.nasa.gov Paul A. Wagner
LINDAMOOD#m#_GL...@lims-a1.lerc.nasa.gov GLENN LINDAMOOD
j...@hammer.msfc.nasa.gov J. Porter Clark
vsun...@public.srce.hr Vice Sunjara
sw...@reitaku-u.ac.jp John Swain
kage...@wing2.iis.u-tokyo.ac.jp KAGESAWA Masataka
lamp...@m.u-tokyo.ac.jp Marc Lamphier
gr...@leopard.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp Gregory Getzan
ma...@okabe.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp K.M. Maniruzzaman
eas...@cfi.waseda.ac.jp Richard Easther
co...@allied-telesis.co.jp Hank Cohen
b...@itl.atr.co.jp Benjamin Reaves
eub...@itl.atr.co.jp Stephen Eubank
co...@bug.co.jp T. Colin Mack
dia...@tbj.dec-j.co.jp Norman Diamond
me...@yk.fujitsu.co.jp John B. Melby
la...@iac.co.jp Lance Cummings
AA0...@giken.kobelco.co.jp Stefan Kukula
jfr...@omron.co.jp Jeffrey Friedl
me...@ohsun01.sumitomo-chem.co.jp David Meyer
ple...@yugiri.riken.go.jp Hans E. Plesser
deh...@mars.dtinet.or.jp John De Hoog
dug...@sip.interbroad.or.jp Julie and Chris Duguid
cp...@mbox.kyoto-inet.or.jp Carl Freire
mon...@osk.threewebnet.or.jp Masasi Matsumoto
mis...@rcp6.elan.af.mil Barry Mishler
ron...@airmail.net Ronald Guest
hi...@aloha.net Keith K. Higa
mjw...@aloha.net Michael J. Wise
ka...@cdsnet.net Karen Shimamoto
km...@crisp.net Ken Miyamoto
rou...@genesis8.frmug.fr.net EMMANUEL ROUSSIN
aw...@gvi.net M. Brendan Van Horn
cei...@inav.net Charles Eicher
con...@indy.net Nancy Conner
kand...@lava.net Ken Andrade
JVAN...@netins.net JOLANE VAN GORP
birc...@email.njin.net Shag
abb...@tezcat.net Abby Franquemont-Guillory
will...@world.net Bill Stanford
loek.va...@tip.nl H.L. van Kooten
nar...@nvg.unit.no Helge Nareid
j...@ihug.co.nz April Glenday
r...@advanced.org R. S. Camm
chuc...@prairienet.org Chuck Douglas
kel...@sintercom.org Kelvin Tan
jai...@mat.uc.pt Jaime C. Silva
and...@algonet.se Anders Thelemyr
etx...@aom.ericsson.se Lars Johansson
L.P.S....@comp.brad.ac.uk Lars Nielsen
M.G....@city.ac.uk Martin Rich
ti...@aiai.ed.ac.uk Tim Duncan
sfl...@mail.comp.glam.ac.uk Stuart F Lewis
hhi...@anatomy.ucl.ac.uk Hajime Hirase
Da...@cupboard.demon.co.uk David G Brown
cha...@edobarn.demon.co.uk Charles Burns
kaz...@edobarn.demon.co.uk Kazumi Honda
Ev...@evan.demon.co.uk Evan M. Jones
f...@filklore.demon.co.uk Alex Fox
an...@vision25.demon.co.uk andy
rdr...@spuddy.mew.co.uk Jason Ullett
Voted NO
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
stai...@bga.com Dwight Brown
ssm...@comland.com Stanton Smith
bo...@datasync.com Martin H. Booda
l...@zk3.dec.com Larry Smith
ni...@inferno.fc.hp.com Nick Ingegneri
kra...@idirect.com Jeff Kraschinski
ran...@SSD.intel.com Randy Miller
t...@mcs.com Thomas Cuny
taj...@netcom.com Taku Tajiri
gail...@panix.com Ed Gaillard
k...@shell.portal.com Kim DeVaughn
sle...@hammer.oche.de Thomas Bueschgens
re...@buphyk.bu.edu Jinara Reyes
ml...@andrew.cmu.edu Michael Loomis
cl...@columbia.edu Christopher Lodge Stamper
pa...@catfish.lcs.mit.edu Patrick J. LoPresti
jggo...@Oakland.edu Jeff Goslin
kg...@ftp.lle.rochester.edu Kenton Green
afa...@umich.edu Andrew Fabbro
s...@med.unc.edu Stacy Ferguson
wide...@cc.helsinki.fi Risto Widenius
oka...@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Kenji Okamoto
mso...@mistik.express.net Mustafa Soysal
sh...@nyx.net Shrisha Rao
csa...@urc.tue.nl Michiel Wijers
ca...@uni-mb.si Ales Casar
Invalid ballots
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GB...@aol.com
! No name given
Laure...@aol.com
! No name given
TJAS...@us.oracle.com TJASKIEW.US.ORACLE.COM
! No name given
Peter_B...@GS163.SP.CS.CMU.EDU
! No name given
UGM...@south-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk MIGHTY1
! No name given
UGM...@south-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk coolman
! No name given
DPHUN...@aol.com
! No vote statement in message
jay...@cris.com Jay Lapidus
! No vote statement in message
g5wa...@cdf.toronto.edu Wang Brian
! No vote statement in message
and...@io.org Andrew Vendryes
! No vote statement in message
Chuck Douglas
Jan Isley (j...@bagend.atl.ga.us) wrote:
: RESULT
: moderated group soc.culture.japan.moderated passes 200:26
: UseVote 3.0 Vote Count - (c) 1993,94 Ron Dippold
: soc.culture.japan.moderated results - 226 valid votes
: Yes No | 2/3 >100 | Pass | Group
: ---- ---- | --- ---- | ---- | -------------------------------------------
: 200 26 | Yes Yes | Yes | soc.culture.japan.moderated
: 10 invalid votes
And there was much rejoicing! YAH!
Of course, there goes all of my free time.
--
Chuck Douglas -- chuc...@prairienet.org
"I don't pretend I have all the answers/Just the obvious ones"
--_Backbone_ by Baby Animals
Homepage now available at: http://jaka.ece.uiuc.edu/~chuckers/
Kenji Okamoto
In the article <8347123...@uunet.uu.net> of newsgroup news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,fj.life.in-japan,sci.lang.japan,soc.culture.japan
j...@bagend.atl.ga.us wrote
Interesting... Only three ethnic Japanese voted from Japan including me.
Kenji