Snowie 3 pre-order
André Nicoulin
As most of you already know, Snowie 3 will be available within a few days,
just ready to be put under the Chrismas tree...
You might pre-order it directly by Oasya (http://www.oasya.com), or by one
of our distributors (http://www.oasya.com/Distributors.html).
The main particularity of Snowie 3 is that evaluations are now based on a
live cube equity. That means Snowie does not display only cubeless equities
as before but all equities are displayed considering a live cube! That
translates into:
Improved checker plays since the cube position is now taken into account for
the right checker play.
Improved cube actions.
Overall performance Snowie 3.0 vs. Snowie 2.x in 3pt matches: 51.8% - 48.2%.
Besides this, several other ameliorations have been added to Snowie. More
info at
http://www.oasya.com/WhatsNewSnowie3.html.
Happy Chrismas, happy Snow, happy Snowie !
The Oasya Team
Gavin Anderson
Does anyone else feel that Oasya is ripping us off? I paid $350 for Snowie
less than 5 months ago, and now if I want to upgrade to 3 the price is a
reasonable $180!!!
That's more than half of the original cost, for an upgrade! Is that normal
in the world of software? (my software purchases are fairly limited, so I
don't know what the norm is, but I would have guessed 10-20% of original
cost for upgrade to latest version. Am I being unrealistic here?).
If I'd waited till now to buy I'd have to pay $380, so if I upgrade the last
5 months of Snowie will have cost me $150 ($1 a day).
Of course I don't have to buy Snowie 3 (Snowie 2.3 is already great), but I
probably will give in to the urge sooner or later. Or maybe not. Oasya did
the same thing when they brought out Snowie 2 - and people complained then.
Right now they don't have much competition (all due respects of course to
Frederick Dahl & Jellyfish), so people are stumping up the cash. Are they
choosing to make their money now - before a competitor comes along - because
they're certainly not building long term customer loyalty with their current
pricing policy.
(I've cc'ed this to Andr・Nicoulin at Oasya in case he'd like to respond -
justifying the cost of the upgrade, or letting me know that since I've only
had Snowie 2 for 5 months I can get the upgrade for a special price <grin>)
Gavin (grumbling in my beer) Anderson
brit...@mbf.sphere.ne.jp
Andr・Nicoulin <nico...@urbanet.ch> wrote in message
news:82jbh6$l29$1...@news1.sunrise.ch...
> Dear Snowie fans,
>
> As most of you already know, Snowie 3 will be available within a few days,
> just ready to be put under the Chrismas tree...
>
> You might pre-order it directly by Oasya (http://www.oasya.com), or by one
> of our distributors (http://www.oasya.com/Distributors.html).
(snip)
Gavin Anderson
setting out Oasya's position. I was convinced by his arguments - basically
that 50% of cost for substantial upgrades is about the norm for software
anyway; that Oasya really don't sell truckloads of Snowie - it is a niche
market product, and they need to cover their bills & pay themselves (about 2
man years of work went into Snowie 3); that plenty of people spend more than
the cost of Snowie on an evening's chouette; and of course that no-one's
being forced to get the upgrade.
FYI - in the interests of fair representation.
(I won't be buying Snowie 3 for Christmas - unless a relative feels
generous - but I'm sure I will end up buying it some time soon. My urge for
the latest won't let me rest otherwise :> )
Gavin Anderson (having to find something else to grumble into my beer about)
Gavin Anderson <brit...@mbf.sphere.ne.jp> wrote in message
news:82l28d$mgk$1...@news1.sphere.ad.jp...
highlander
>> less than 5 months ago, and now if I want to upgrade to 3 the price is a
>> reasonable $180!!!
well i have bought snowie 2 not a month ago. and in fact i feel ripped
off. i mean, why should i pay now 180 USD for an upgrade. if i had
waited two weeks i could pre-order snowie 3 now, and pay about the
same as for snowie2 a month ago.
i know that snowie is a great niche software program. but if i upgrade
now i have paid about 170 USD for using snowie 2 for about a month.
and this is quite a lot for a piece of software.
even apple gives better upgrade prices for people who have recently
bought software/or a new mac.
and why didnt they tell me to wait a month and pre-order snowie3 when
i ordered snowie2 ?
i do feel ripped off and i'd like to hear a statement from oasya in
this newsgroup
kind regards
highlander
Carl Garringer
new version every year. Their pricing of the upgade the same for both Snowie
1 and Snowie 2 users also says that they only expect you to upgade every 2
years. I will be waiting for Snowie 4 to justify an upgrade. I think the
users that upgraded from Snowie 1 to Snowie 2 are the ones that really got
the short end of this pricing policy. If the marketing staff at Oasya had
common sense there would be at least at $80 difference in the upgrade price
from Snowie 1 to Snowie 2 users to encourage yearly upgrades. Yes, I agree
that $180 (47%) is too much for a 1 year upgrade and I will not be upgrading
this year because of it.
"Gavin Anderson" <brit...@mbf.sphere.ne.jp> wrote in message
news:82l28d$mgk$1...@news1.sphere.ad.jp...
> I own Snowie 2.3 and I'm a big fan, but...
>
> Does anyone else feel that Oasya is ripping us off? I paid $350 for Snowie
> less than 5 months ago, and now if I want to upgrade to 3 the price is a
> reasonable $180!!!
>
Art Grater
If Oasya were simply fixing bugs and charging for it, that would be another
matter. But they are making genuine advances in the field of backgammon
software and providing the BG community with a valuable resource. I charge
for my services, and I expect to pay for the services of others.
The economics for a program with a relatively small number of users is very
different from one with millions or even tens of thousands of users. For
that matter, the price of a publisher-provided upgrade for Snowie 3 is about
the same as Adobe Photoshop 5 to 5.5.
It's simple... decide if the improvements are worth the price to you and act
accordingly. It is not unlike choosing between Player vs Professional
versions. Note that distributors are free to charge less (or more, for that
matter).
I agree with you, though, that it would be good customer relations to
provide a grace period for recent S2 purchasers. With Oasya's unique
registration system, it would be easy to date it from the Personal #3
issuance.
Vince Mounts
I have had version 2 for only a couple months and now I have to pay $180
for an upgrade. Thats $90 + $180 , where if I had just kept ver.1 for 2
more months it only costs me 180 to upgrade. I think they should follow
other software companies and offer cheaper upgrades for more current
versions of the software. I will definitely be waiting on buying this
upgrade and may just wait for snowie 4. After all, the new all cubeful
equities will surely have some bugs that need working out and I have no
desire to pay $180 to work them out for them. It feels bad to be one of the
people that have supported the company through both previous versions but
now get shafted because I was actually dumb enough to buy version 2. A
similiar thing happened when I bought version 1. I finally decided to make
the big expenditure ~$300 and then a couple months later there was version 2
for another 90 that I now didn't have. So I wait and finally give in and
here comes version 3 and once again I will not be able to buy it due to my
recent upgrade to ver. 2. This time I won't be so dumb. Since I can't afford
3 _right now_ I should just wait until the release date of ver. 4. I
understand that the company needs to make money and they do make a good
product,,, but their upgrade policies to date(and lack of a break for recent
purchasers) have shown me one thing for sure. Do not buy Oasya software
unless it is very recently released or you will be sorry.
"Carl Garringer" <cgarr...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:OSKDuaZQ$GA.258@cpmsnbbsa04...
> It seems pretty straight forward to me that Oasya intends to try to
release
> new version every year. Their pricing of the upgade the same for both
Snowie
> 1 and Snowie 2 users also says that they only expect you to upgade every 2
> years. I will be waiting for Snowie 4 to justify an upgrade. I think the
> users that upgraded from Snowie 1 to Snowie 2 are the ones that really got
> the short end of this pricing policy. If the marketing staff at Oasya had
> common sense there would be at least at $80 difference in the upgrade
price
> from Snowie 1 to Snowie 2 users to encourage yearly upgrades. Yes, I agree
> that $180 (47%) is too much for a 1 year upgrade and I will not be
upgrading
> this year because of it.
>
> > (I've cc'ed this to Andr $B!& (BNicoulin at Oasya in case he'd like to
John Graas
me) the $90 upgrade.
I can see where Osaya is going to get a little more push-back on this.
They effectively doubled the upgrade price, which most people would
not expect.
jdg
"Carl Garringer" <cgarr...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>> (I've cc'ed this to Andr・Nicoulin at Oasya in case he'd like to
>respond -
>> justifying the cost of the upgrade, or letting me know that since I've
>only
>> had Snowie 2 for 5 months I can get the upgrade for a special price
><grin>)
>>
>> Gavin (grumbling in my beer) Anderson
>> brit...@mbf.sphere.ne.jp
>
>
**** Remove _spamme_ from e-mail address to respond. ****
highlander
i own snowie2 fore about 3 weeks. now i should pay 180USD to get
snowie3. if I had waited longer to buy snowie2 I could get now snowie3
for the same price.
i think oasya should follow a different upgrade policy for users who
bought recently a new version. nobody at oasya told me that snowie3
will soon be released when i bought snowie2.
i do feel ripped off, and there is only one thing to stop this
feeling: change the policy for new snowie2 users.
i'd like to read oasya's response in this newsgroup
thanks
highlander
VSG
André Nicoulin <nico...@urbanet.ch> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
82jbh6$l29$1...@news1.sunrise.ch...
> Dear Snowie fans,
>
> As most of you already know, Snowie 3 will be available within a few days,
> just ready to be put under the Chrismas tree...
>
> You might pre-order it directly by Oasya (http://www.oasya.com), or by one
> of our distributors (http://www.oasya.com/Distributors.html).
>
In Germany low cost PC board games such as backgammon fly off the shelfs. Many
casual players enjoy the odd game at lunchtime or generally to pass the odd 10
minutes or so. Yes, most of the software doesn't come close to Snowie and
Jellyfish high standards of play or analysis features, but I can assure you they
sell by the bucketful. I picked up the registered version of MVP backgammon for
25 Deutsch Marks and it was the last copy of a whole box full. I'm of the
opinion that if Snowie/Jellyfish went mainstream and developed good distribution
channels they could afford to drop the cost of their product significantly. It
was mentioned earlier that Snowie is not sold by the bucketful, at $380 why am I
not surprised. I honestly believe Oasya and Effect software could do themselves
a huge favor by pricing their products at the level of a top pc off the shelf
game. The increase in units sold I'm sure would cover the substantial decrease
in price. Backgammon is only a niche market when it is priced as such. You see
top class chess games priced at the cost of "FIFA 2000" etc for example. I've no
doubt that Oasya and co. have looked into the concept going mainstream and I
would be interested in understanding why this is not an option for them. If they
did decide to go mainstream however then there is going to be a whole lot of
upset amongst existing owners I'm sure :-).It is probably too late now to bring
in a new pricing/distribution structure due to the understandable outrage that
existing owners would express. I also think, for what it is worth, that if a top
class backgammon program was seen in your local pc shop window and on thousands
of store shelfs worldwide it would be excellent in promoting the game as a
whole.
I must stress that I understand there is years of work and programming involved
in developing a top backgamon software but I still think that the Oasya and
Co.can pay their staff AND have a healthy profit if they priced the product
within the means of the masses.
Anyone else agree?
regards
Alan Webb
Daniel Hollis
>I must stress that I understand there is years of work and programming
>involved
>in developing a top backgamon software but I still think that the Oasya and
>Co.can pay their staff AND have a healthy profit if they priced the product
>within the means of the masses.
Certainly, if Snowie were less than 100$, or even 150$, I would pick up
a copy. But then again, I am already in their niche market, and willing
to pay more than the casual user. They might need to lower the price to
between 30 and 50$ US to get most people to consider buying it. Then,
they'd need some kind of distribution scheme that gets it to all the
elbos and babbages, and so on, which would cut into their profits more.
It's a risk.
But, as it stands, even though I am in their niche market, I am a
relatively poor graduate student working part time only. I think the
real question is what percentage of backgammon enthusiasts purchase
snowie, and whether or not a significant portion more would buy it if it
dropped in price. I have an old copy of jellyfish tutor (version 2.02)
which plays as fine game and evaluates positions, and I was willing to
pay the ~120$ for it. 380$ more for the ability to rollout positions is
not worth it for me.
I will end up waiting for gnu to come along before that ... I have the
source here and I've been poking around in it. It looks like it's coming
along well. I might do a little bit of coding on it when I find the time.
Dan
rob...@my-deja.com
the new version has a lot of new features.
probably the most features i dont need it, many people
dont need them.
for me, the upgrade price is toooo much. for all owners of
snowie 2 edition its a very bad price and for the name of snowie
its not very well.
for this price, i dont buy it. i hope, that oasya will think
about the upgrade prices! or, you wanna loose a lot of your upgrade-
buyers?
take care of it.
thanks
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Martins Sanders
wrote:
>In article <82o9f3$cu4$1...@news02.btx.dtag.de>, VSG <vsg...@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>>I must stress that I understand there is years of work and programming
>>involved
>>in developing a top backgamon software but I still think that the Oasya and
>>Co.can pay their staff AND have a healthy profit if they priced the product
>>within the means of the masses.
snowie web player was for masses and cost about $40 even without
annalises its better that MVP, I suppose that snowie web player2.0
must be replaced with Master Gammon which from the new version will
use snowie engine.
>
> Certainly, if Snowie were less than 100$, or even 150$, I would pick up
>a copy. But then again, I am already in their niche market, and willing
>to pay more than the casual user. They might need to lower the price to
>between 30 and 50$ US to get most people to consider buying it. Then,
>they'd need some kind of distribution scheme that gets it to all the
>elbos and babbages, and so on, which would cut into their profits more.
>It's a risk.
>
> But, as it stands, even though I am in their niche market, I am a
>relatively poor graduate student working part time only. I think the
>real question is what percentage of backgammon enthusiasts purchase
>snowie, and whether or not a significant portion more would buy it if it
>dropped in price. I have an old copy of jellyfish tutor (version 2.02)
>which plays as fine game and evaluates positions, and I was willing to
>pay the ~120$ for it. 380$ more for the ability to rollout positions
> is
why all you talking about professional version price and complaining
about features of lower versions? rollout positions can be also done
by champion edition of snowie ( hmm, new 3.0 have only student and
pro, but in 2.0 there was also champion edition).
also Snowie Pro have lot more features that only rollouts.
>not worth it for me.
>
> I will end up waiting for gnu to come along before that ... I have the
>source here and I've been poking around in it. It looks like it's coming
>along well. I might do a little bit of coding on it when I find the time.
>
>Dan
>
___________
<http://www.geocities.com/ggsandis>
VSG
Martins Sanders <ggs...@yahoo.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
385a1ed0...@news.lvnet.lv...
> On 10 Dec 1999 15:45:30 GMT, hol...@math.umn.edu (Daniel Hollis)
> wrote:
>
> >In article <82o9f3$cu4$1...@news02.btx.dtag.de>, VSG <vsg...@t-online.de>
wrote:
> >
> >>I must stress that I understand there is years of work and programming
> >>involved
> >>in developing a top backgamon software but I still think that the Oasya and
> >>Co.can pay their staff AND have a healthy profit if they priced the product
> >>within the means of the masses.
>
> snowie web player was for masses and cost about $40 even without
> annalises its better that MVP, I suppose that snowie web player2.0
> must be replaced with Master Gammon which from the new version will
> use snowie engine.
Yes it is priced for the mass market but was certainly not marketed or
distributed as such. In any case if I'm new to the game and want to buy a game
for my lunchbreak I will buy a program that suggests moves or has more
functionality than just being a playing partner. I would have no idea if Snowie
was a top program or not because unless you are "in the scene" you probably have
never heard of Snowie. Snowie web player could have been a big hit if it was on
the shelves of computer shops and not only available through selected outlets
and the internet. I havn't seen 1 backgammon program on the main shelves of a
computer shop yet. I see a few shareware or compilation packages with backgammon
but unlike Chess (mephisto chess is big here in Germany)backgammon is relegated
to the shareware section. I just think the big 2 could do a hell of a lot more
towards the promotion of the game and therefore their own profits if they
actively went mass market and made efforts to bring their products on the main
shelves.
regards
Alan Webb
webby's backgammon site
www.isg-vsg.de/backgammon/BGHome.htm
Daniel Hollis
Martins Sanders <ggs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>why all you talking about professional version price and complaining
>about features of lower versions? rollout positions can be also done
>by champion edition of snowie ( hmm, new 3.0 have only student and
>pro, but in 2.0 there was also champion edition).
>
>also Snowie Pro have lot more features that only rollouts.
Sorry - I was unaware that there was an in between version. At the
time I bought one of the bots, only jellyfish was available. Only the
top level jf software did rollouts. AFAIK, that's still true with the
latest version.