Once Again, Europe Trounces the United States ...
Desmond Coughlan
superiority of Europe in matters of science, the Sanger Institute
at the University of Cambridge, UK, has succeeded in decoding
chromosome 22, and plans to make its findings freely available for
all, in contrast to the Americans, who (if they had won) would
have sold the information.
Vive l'Europe !!
--
Desmond E. Coughlan |System Administrator
des...@coughlan.fr |XXXXXX XXX XXX XXXXXXX
dcou...@xxxx.fr |750XX Paris
http://www.coughlan.net/coughlan
http://www.xxxx.fr/
Mitchell Holman
}In a spectacular breakthrough which once again shows the undisputed
}superiority of Europe in matters of science, the Sanger Institute
}at the University of Cambridge, UK, has succeeded in decoding
}chromosome 22, and plans to make its findings freely available for
}all, in contrast to the Americans, who (if they had won) would
}have sold the information.
}
}Vive l'Europe !!
Do we *really* to perpetuate these tirades of
regional chauvenism? Europe is better than the
US in some ways; the US is better than Europe
in some ways. Can't we just leave it at that?
Mitchell Holman
"You can't be a Real Country unless you have a BEER and an
airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team or
some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a BEER."
-- Frank Zappa --
Lefty
On 28 Nov 1999 10:58:33 GMT, des...@tortue.coughlan.net (Desmond
Coughlan) wrote:
> the undisputed
>superiority of Europe
I don't usually enter these inane OT US vs. the world discussions but
please, for the sake of argument, define Europe. And while your at it,
why do you get to claim an entire group of seperate nations as "your
side"
"It's a small world after all.........."
Desmond Coughlan
> > the undisputed
> >superiority of Europe
> I don't usually enter these inane OT US vs. the world discussions but
> please, for the sake of argument, define Europe. And while your at it,
> why do you get to claim an entire group of seperate nations as "your
> side"
Europe can be defined very easily by consulting the following list:
http://www.europa.eu.int/en/eu/states.htm
Anything not appearing on that list, isn't Europe. Full stop, next question.
Lefty
On 28 Nov 1999 14:34:44 GMT, des...@tortue.coughlan.net (Desmond
Coughlan) wrote:
>Europe can be defined very easily by consulting the following list:
>http://www.europa.eu.int/en/eu/states.htm
>Anything not appearing on that list, isn't Europe. Full stop, next question.
It seems as though you left several traditional Eurpopean nations off
of your list Des. Don't like Bulgaria? Bosnia? Russia? Norway? Poland?
Switzerland? (oh never mind, they're neutral) Not good enough for you?
Maybe we can coin an "ist" word for this concept. This would be like
an American defining the US as a group of say 23 states of his or her
choosing. EU or not, if we're stuck with Alabama, you're stuck with
Andorra. ;)
Richard Jackson
> superiority of Europe in matters of science, the Sanger Institute
> at the University of Cambridge, UK, has succeeded in decoding
> chromosome 22, and plans to make its findings freely available for
> all, in contrast to the Americans, who (if they had won) would
> have sold the information.
>
> Vive l'Europe !!
>
ac=000565806543789&rtmo=fa0Yraqs&atmo=hhhhhMSe&pg=/et/99/11/28/ngene28.h
tml
>
> --
> Desmond E. Coughlan |System Administrator
> des...@coughlan.fr |XXXXXX XXX XXX XXXXXXX
> dcou...@xxxx.fr |750XX Paris
> http://www.coughlan.net/coughlan
> http://www.xxxx.fr/
>
Desmond,
Is it really necessary to get into this whole us vs them type of thing
again? I mean, you and I wasted a lot of time this way recently, and I
don't think we accomplished a thing except a pissing contest.
--
Richard Jackson
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Desmond Coughlan
> >Europe can be defined very easily by consulting the following list:
> >http://www.europa.eu.int/en/eu/states.htm
> >Anything not appearing on that list, isn't Europe. Full stop, next question.
> It seems as though you left several traditional Eurpopean nations off
> of your list Des. Don't like Bulgaria? Bosnia? Russia? Norway? Poland?
> Switzerland? (oh never mind, they're neutral) Not good enough for you?
> Maybe we can coin an "ist" word for this concept. This would be like
> an American defining the US as a group of say 23 states of his or her
> choosing. EU or not, if we're stuck with Alabama, you're stuck with
> Andorra. ;)
LOL ... isn't it bad enough that you have to suffer Texas ..?
Seriously, Europe is not a physical entity, but a cultural and economic
one. The countries you mentioned above, although physically close to
the paradise on earth that we call Europe, are not in the list, and
are not, therefore, part of Europe.
Johannes Kepler
Desmond Coughlan wrote in message ...
>Lefty <le...@radical.com> wrote:
>
>> >Europe can be defined very easily by consulting the following list:
>> >http://www.europa.eu.int/en/eu/states.htm
>> >Anything not appearing on that list, isn't Europe. Full stop, next
question.
>
>> It seems as though you left several traditional Eurpopean nations off
>> of your list Des. Don't like Bulgaria? Bosnia? Russia? Norway? Poland?
>> Switzerland? (oh never mind, they're neutral) Not good enough for you?
>> Maybe we can coin an "ist" word for this concept. This would be like
>> an American defining the US as a group of say 23 states of his or her
>> choosing. EU or not, if we're stuck with Alabama, you're stuck with
>> Andorra. ;)
>
>LOL ... isn't it bad enough that you have to suffer Texas ..?
>
>Seriously, Europe is not a physical entity, but a cultural and economic
>one. The countries you mentioned above, although physically close to
>the paradise on earth that we call Europe, are not in the list, and
>are not, therefore, part of Europe.
>
Europe is indeed a physical entity, a continent that extends from the
Iberian Peninsula on the west, all the way to the Urals on the east. The
member states of the European Union (a political entity) constitute a
sub-set of the states that exist on the continent of Europe.
There is no such political entity as 'Europe,' and it is wrong to refer to
the European Union as 'Europe,' except in the colloquial sense.
St George
Desmond Coughlan <des...@tortue.coughlan.net> wrote in message
news:slrn842fl8...@tortue.coughlan.net...
> > please, for the sake of argument, define Europe. And while your at it,
> > why do you get to claim an entire group of seperate nations as "your
> > side"
>
>
> http://www.europa.eu.int/en/eu/states.htm
>
> Anything not appearing on that list, isn't Europe. Full stop, next
question.
Desmond, if you seriously believe that Great Britain is more of a part of
Europe than Switzerland, then, to use a transatlantic colloquialism, you
need a reality check.
St George
Lefty <le...@radical.com> wrote in message
news:384139cf...@news.prodigy.net...
>
> > the undisputed
> >superiority of Europe
>
> I don't usually enter these inane OT US vs. the world discussions but
> please, for the sake of argument, define Europe. And while your at it,
> why do you get to claim an entire group of seperate nations as "your
> side"
>
Personally, as a Briton, I consider the U.S. to be far more 'on my side'
than, for instance, France.
St George
> In a spectacular breakthrough which once again shows the undisputed
> superiority of Europe in matters of science, the Sanger Institute
> at the University of Cambridge, UK, has succeeded in decoding
> chromosome 22, and plans to make its findings freely available for
> all, in contrast to the Americans, who (if they had won) would
> have sold the information.
You are quite correct to acclaim Great Britain's world-leading
inventiveness, ingenuity and altruism.
You are correct in condemning the Americans for their typical crass
commercialism, but unfair in failing to acknowledge the significant level of
participation and resources provided for this project by U.S. institutions.
You may (justly) impugn their motives, but to deny the positive effect of
U.S. invention and products on the world is to ignore the facts, while all
the French can do is whine about what language the product's instructions
are printed in...
You are grossly incorrect in ascribing any scrap of credit for this
trans-atlantic enterprise to 'Europe' - the insular and unproductive
continentals, as usual, contributed nothing.
I can give you a list of significant, contemporary inventions by Britons as
long as my arm. I can give you a similar list of U.S. inventions as long as
the distance from my elbow to my fingertips, while Japanese inventions would
take the full length of my hand to lay out.
My fingernail would provide ample space to list the French contribution....
Executioner
>Lefty <le...@radical.com> wrote:
>
>> >Europe can be defined very easily by consulting the following list:
>> >http://www.europa.eu.int/en/eu/states.htm
>> >Anything not appearing on that list, isn't Europe. Full stop, next
> question.
>
>> of your list Des. Don't like Bulgaria? Bosnia? Russia? Norway? Poland?
>> Switzerland? (oh never mind, they're neutral) Not good enough for you?
>> Maybe we can coin an "ist" word for this concept. This would be like
>> an American defining the US as a group of say 23 states of his or her
>> choosing. EU or not, if we're stuck with Alabama, you're stuck with
>> Andorra. ;)
>
>LOL ... isn't it bad enough that you have to suffer Texas ..?
>
>Seriously, Europe is not a physical entity, but a cultural and economic
>one.
Europe is a continent. Any country on this continent is European.
>The countries you mentioned above, although physically close to
>the paradise on earth that we call Europe, are not in the list, and
>are not, therefore, part of Europe.
Switzerland is surrounded by EU members but by your silly definition isn't a
European country.
Btw, the website you pointed to answers the question "What is the European
Union?" and doesn't address which countries are in Europe proper.
Mar...@city.net
It's been going on since the second world war. That was a deal made between Truman and Churchill.
Desmond Coughlan wrote:
In a spectacular breakthrough which once again shows the undisputed
superiority of Europe in matters of science, the Sanger Institute
at the University of Cambridge, UK, has succeeded in decoding
chromosome 22, and plans to make its findings freely available for
all, in contrast to the Americans, who (if they had won) would
have sold the information.
Vive l'Europe !!
--
Desmond Coughlan
> > In a spectacular breakthrough which once again shows the undisputed
> > superiority of Europe in matters of science, the Sanger Institute
> > at the University of Cambridge, UK, has succeeded in decoding
> > chromosome 22, and plans to make its findings freely available for
> > all, in contrast to the Americans, who (if they had won) would
> > have sold the information.
> You are quite correct to acclaim Great Britain's world-leading
> inventiveness, ingenuity and altruism.
You are a bigot, Mark.
What's sad is that you probably genuinely believe the little Englander crap
that you spew onto this newsgroup on a regular basis; all the while living
in a country riddled with class divisions, without any written protection
from government abuses, where what you become is more dependant on whom you
know, than what you know, where an unelected crowd of old farts can influence
laws, and where you can be sent to gaol for not paying for a monarchy that
you were never given the chance to choose.
I lived in the UK for 30 years, give or take a month or two, and I am well
aware of its qualities; I am also aware of its shortcomings. You, apparent-
ly, are not.
Drewl, when he insults the UK, does so from a position of ignorance (the
only position he knows, with the possibile exception of the missionary),
never having been outside the continental United States except for four
days in Canada. I, however, know the United Kingdom as well as you, if not
better, and your assertion that it is the 'freeest country in ... etc' is
as far from the truth as you can go, without starting to waffle on about
the men from Mars.
Here in France, if the government abuses its powers, there is a
Constitutional Court (which the government can*NOT* ignore, unless
if wants to find itself deposed by the military). What does the UK
have? The House of Lords, and as the peers are appointed by the
government, they're virtually guaranteed a majority (as soon as the
current crop of old Tories pop their clogs). Then there's Strasbourg,
which, incidentally, has issued more judgements against the United
Kingdom for abuses of its citizens' human rights, than against any other
European power.
What do you think of latest 'news' about French farmers feeding human
waste to their livestock? I suppose you believe it ... sure, the French
are 'dirty', and 'lazy' ...
ROTFLMAO !!!
Standards of hygiene here in France are higher than in the UK. Anyone
feeding human faeces to his livestock would be in gaol - literally. Let
us not forget the country that gave the world mad cow disease, shall we?
In the UK, you can have products with 'secret ingredients', which the
manufacturers aren't obliged to divulge. In fact, you could be eating
shit, for all you know. In France (and in most other European nations),
no manufacturer may withhold information about its products' ingredients.
France has a government which is elected for a fixed term, and not a
day more. In the United Kingdom, there is no legal impediment to the
government abolishing elections. It's unlikely, but it could happen.
In France, if an employer fires an employee for no reason, we have the
Prud'Homme, a government agency which will prosecute the employer, and
do so for free. In the UK, you can try an industrial tribunal, and you
pay, and you might lose.
As for identity cards, I agree with you that they're a pain in the neck,
but I've personally never been asked to produce mine, and to be honest,
I'm not sure which is worse : being asked to produce an identity card,
or being beaten to death in a police cell at Paddington Green, and having
the CPS decide not to prosecute 'in the public interest'.
Oh, and then there's the famous 'D Notice'. Know what that is? It's when
a minister (normally the Home Secretary, occasionally the Foreign Secretary)
*orders* a television station not to broadcast a programme, or a newspaper
not to publish an article, because it could constitute a 'threat to national
security'.
He doesn't have to justify his action, unless the television station or
newspaper decides to fight the D Notice in court, and when a minister plays
the 'national security' card, few judges will find against them.
I don't know how old you are, but do you remember 'Death on the Rock'? It's
when three unarmed IRA terrorists were shot (supposedly by the SAS, although
my money's on it being the UDA) in Gibraltar. Do you consider that to be
the actions of a democracy?
Yes, they were terrorists, yes, they probably would have killed many people
had their bomb gone off, but does that justify stepping outside the law,
and conducting summary executions? Witnesses testified that the killers
did not issue a warning. Under British law (and Gibraltar is still UK
territory), a British police officer (or a soldier acting in the defence
of the United Kingdom in peacetime), when acting in an armed capacity,
*must* issue a warning (the usual being 'Armed Police!' - for our foreign
friends, this is because the British police generally aren't armed, so when
they are, they have to make sure that anyone they're trying to arrest, knows
it) before opening fire, unless he genuinely believes that his life, or that
of the public, is in danger. Even at the inquest into the Gibraltar shootings,
no claim to this effect was made.
Those three people were gunned down in cold blood.
Does the end always justify the means?
I for one don't want my government killing in my name, whether it be in
the execution chamber, or on the streets of Belfast.
I could go on with many more instances of why the United Kingdom is
far from being the paradise that you and the 'Daily Mail' think it is.
I hereby issue a formal invitation to you to come to Paris, to see that
you're wrong about a lot of things here.
The French don't smell, and the métro runs on time (ever tried getting
from Heathrow to Victoria in less than 90 minutes ..?). We have that
glorious protection from government that was pioneered, true, by the
Magna Carta, the oldest constitution still in use, built upon by the
Déclaration Universelle des Droits de l'Homme, and then copied by
the United States Constitution.
You might not think it necessary, but it ensures that we don't get fiascos
like D Notices, the Westland Saga, and a head of state who refuses to step
down, even when she is no longer wanted by a majority of the people.
Come to France, Mark. You might like it.
[rest of Daily Mailish, Little Englander xenophobia snipped]
Desmond Coughlan
> > In a spectacular breakthrough which once again shows the undisputed
> > superiority of Europe in matters of science, the Sanger Institute
> > at the University of Cambridge, UK, has succeeded in decoding
> > chromosome 22, and plans to make its findings freely available for
> > all, in contrast to the Americans, who (if they had won) would
> > have sold the information.
> >
> > Vive l'Europe !!
> Is it really necessary to get into this whole us vs them type of thing
> again? I mean, you and I wasted a lot of time this way recently, and I
> don't think we accomplished a thing except a pissing contest.
You're quite right, Richard, and I apologise; but I couldn't resist it.
:-)
Terry C. Shannon
Desmond Coughlan <des...@tortue.coughlan.net> wrote in message
news:slrn8422vp...@tortue.coughlan.net...
> superiority of Europe in matters of science, the Sanger Institute
> at the University of Cambridge, UK, has succeeded in decoding
> chromosome 22, and plans to make its findings freely available for
> all, in contrast to the Americans, who (if they had won) would
> have sold the information.
>
> Vive l'Europe !!
>
Desmond, please don't count you codons before they're mapped. A parallel
effort called the Human Genome Sequencing Project is being conducted by
CELERA Genomics Rockville, MD. May the best technology win!
cheers,
terry s
who wonders if the identification of a :murder: gene would lead its being
edited-out. interesting moral questions will rear their ugly heads, no
doubt.
Richard Jackson
des...@coughlan.net wrote:
> Richard Jackson <ri...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > In a spectacular breakthrough which once again shows the
undisputed
> > > superiority of Europe in matters of science, the Sanger Institute
> > > at the University of Cambridge, UK, has succeeded in decoding
> > > chromosome 22, and plans to make its findings freely available for
> > > all, in contrast to the Americans, who (if they had won) would
> > > have sold the information.
> > >
> > > Vive l'Europe !!
>
thing
> > again? I mean, you and I wasted a lot of time this way recently,
and I
> > don't think we accomplished a thing except a pissing contest.
>
> You're quite right, Richard, and I apologise; but I couldn't resist
it.
>
> :-)
>
> --
> Desmond E. Coughlan |System Administrator
> des...@coughlan.fr |XXXXXX XXX XXX XXXXXXX
> dcou...@xxxx.fr |750XX Paris
> http://www.coughlan.net/coughlan
> http://www.xxxx.fr/
>
Desmond, I think you are a proponent of the Chaos Theory. <grin>
Mobutu Sese Seko
des...@tortue.coughlan.net wrote on 11/28/1999 5:58 AM:
> In a spectacular breakthrough which once again shows the undisputed
> superiority of Europe in matters of science, the Sanger Institute
> at the University of Cambridge, UK, has succeeded in decoding
> chromosome 22, and plans to make its findings freely available for
> all, in contrast to the Americans, who (if they had won) would
> have sold the information.
>
> Vive l'Europe !!
Desmond, Europe has a lot of problems. In many ways, it has even more than
the US. I find your post amusing, but thoroughly irrelevant and rather
petty. There are plenty of ngs devoted solely to the bashing of Europeans or
Americans. Let's try to keep this ng focussed on the DP.
Mobutu Sese-Seko
Mobutu Sese Seko
des...@tortue.coughlan.net wrote on 11/28/1999 10:50 AM:
>
>> It seems as though you left several traditional Eurpopean nations off
>> of your list Des. Don't like Bulgaria? Bosnia? Russia? Norway? Poland?
>> Switzerland? (oh never mind, they're neutral) Not good enough for you?
>> Maybe we can coin an "ist" word for this concept. This would be like
>> an American defining the US as a group of say 23 states of his or her
>> choosing. EU or not, if we're stuck with Alabama, you're stuck with
>> Andorra. ;)
>
> LOL ... isn't it bad enough that you have to suffer Texas ..?
>
> Seriously, Europe is not a physical entity, but a cultural and economic
> one. The countries you mentioned above, although physically close to
> the paradise on earth that we call Europe, are not in the list, and
> are not, therefore, part of Europe.
If you look at the world from a purely geographic outlook, Europe doesn't
exist at all. It is merely a bump on the end of Asia - thats why many
geologists etc. refer to "Eurasia". Desmond is absolutely correct when he
says Europe is only a cultural and economic unit.
Mobutu Sese-Seko
Mobutu Sese Seko
des...@tortue.coughlan.net wrote on 11/28/1999 1:52 PM:
> In fact, you could be eating
> shit, for all you know.
Ça ne se fait pas! Les anglais sont des gastronomes, n'est-ce pas?
forgive my French,
Mobutu Sese-Seko
Mobutu Sese Seko
st_george99@NO_SPAMhotmail.com wrote on 11/28/1999 12:26 PM:
> Personally, as a Briton, I consider the U.S. to be far more 'on my side'
> than, for instance, France.
This reminds me of the famous British headline, "Fog in Channel - Continent
Cut Off". Britain is as much a part of Europe as anyone else is. Despite
your wishes to the contrary, we do not live in an anglo-centric world.
Mobutu Sese-Seko
Hooked-on-quack's
equivalent of food stamps to register his domain. How progressive!
On 28 Nov 1999 15:50:53 GMT, des...@tortue.coughlan.net (Desmond
Coughlan) wrote:
>Lefty <le...@radical.com> wrote:
>
>> >Europe can be defined very easily by consulting the following list:
>> >http://www.europa.eu.int/en/eu/states.htm
>> >Anything not appearing on that list, isn't Europe. Full stop, next question.
>
>> It seems as though you left several traditional Eurpopean nations off
>> of your list Des. Don't like Bulgaria? Bosnia? Russia? Norway? Poland?
>> Switzerland? (oh never mind, they're neutral) Not good enough for you?
>> Maybe we can coin an "ist" word for this concept. This would be like
>> an American defining the US as a group of say 23 states of his or her
>> choosing. EU or not, if we're stuck with Alabama, you're stuck with
>> Andorra. ;)
>
>LOL ... isn't it bad enough that you have to suffer Texas ..?
>
>Seriously, Europe is not a physical entity, but a cultural and economic
>one. The countries you mentioned above, although physically close to
>the paradise on earth that we call Europe, are not in the list, and
>are not, therefore, part of Europe.
>
St George
Mobutu Sese Seko <mob...@mobutu.za> wrote in message
news:B4671711.4516%mob...@mobutu.za...
What's your point? I don't understand how you have answered my point.
All I can draw on is personal opinion.
I have travelled extensively all over the world, and found the Americans to
be generally friendly, pleasant and co-operative. Canadians also, although
a little more reserved, and Australians as well (although some have a little
chip on their shoulders)
In Europe, I admire the manana of the Spanish and the Italians, and even
appreciate the ordiliness and self-discipline of the Germans. Danes are my
favourite European people - similar to the Dutch but a little more open.
French people, however, and in particular Parisiennes, are almost without
exception rude, unhelpful and insular.
From the businessmen to the hotel receptionists, and from the taxi drivers
to the waiters, I have never come across a Frenchman that I liked. (I
thought I had once, but he turned out to be a Belgian)
It must be pointed out that my opinions did not pre-exist my experiences -
rather my experiences coloured my opinions.
Discrimination is only wrong when it is through ignorance - once one becomes
knowledgeable about a grouping though; generalisations, although imperfect,
are most certainly valid and useful - and I will not apologise for mine.
Not only do I find French people largely objectionable personally, the
country itself has a history of compromising Britain's interests
politically, militarily and economically. I do not intend to get into a
detailed debate here, but contemporary examples would be the French warning
Saddam of imminent Anglo-American military action, and the illegal
restriction of British beef imports.
St George
> St George <st_george99@NO_SPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > In a spectacular breakthrough which once again shows the undisputed
> > > superiority of Europe in matters of science, the Sanger Institute
> > > at the University of Cambridge, UK, has succeeded in decoding
> > > chromosome 22, and plans to make its findings freely available for
> > > all, in contrast to the Americans, who (if they had won) would
> > > have sold the information.
>
> > You are quite correct to acclaim Great Britain's world-leading
> > inventiveness, ingenuity and altruism.
>
> You are a bigot, Mark.
ROTFL! Coming from you!!
Main Entry: big·ot
Pronunciation: 'bi-g&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1661
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions
and prejudices
Does anybody on this newsgroup not believe that Desmond conforms quite
beautifully to this description?
Especially considering the topic of this thread, which you entitled!
I may be a bigot, but you are a hypocritical bigot.
> What's sad is that you probably genuinely believe the little Englander
crap
> that you spew onto this newsgroup on a regular basis; all the while living
> in a country riddled with class divisions, without any written protection
> from government abuses, where what you become is more dependant on whom
you
> know, than what you know, where an unelected crowd of old farts can
influence
> laws, and where you can be sent to gaol for not paying for a monarchy that
> you were never given the chance to choose.
ROTFL!! Asked, answered, and spankings handed out in other (off-topic)
threads on this NG.
> I lived in the UK for 30 years, give or take a month or two, and I am well
> aware of its qualities; I am also aware of its shortcomings. You,
apparent-
> ly, are not.
>
> Drewl, when he insults the UK, does so from a position of ignorance (the
> only position he knows, with the possibile exception of the missionary),
> never having been outside the continental United States except for four
> days in Canada. I, however, know the United Kingdom as well as you, if
not
> better, and your assertion that it is the 'freeest country in ... etc' is
> as far from the truth as you can go, without starting to waffle on about
> the men from Mars.
ROTFL!!! You couldn't name a more free one when I previously challenged you
do so while I was positively thwacking your bare behind in another thread!
Care to name one now? Unwise, as I'll shoot you down in flames yet again -
better just continue with the ad homina!
> Here in France, if the government abuses its powers, there is a
> Constitutional Court (which the government can*NOT* ignore, unless
> if wants to find itself deposed by the military). What does the UK
> have? The House of Lords, and as the peers are appointed by the
> government, they're virtually guaranteed a majority (as soon as the
> current crop of old Tories pop their clogs). Then there's Strasbourg,
> which, incidentally, has issued more judgements against the United
> Kingdom for abuses of its citizens' human rights, than against any other
> European power.
ROTFL!!!! I thought you were trying to imply there was no protection for
UK citizens against government abuse of power. You'd have made a much
better case by not referring so frequently to the court that does just that
and then referring to the many times it has done it!
> What do you think of latest 'news' about French farmers feeding human
> waste to their livestock? I suppose you believe it ... sure, the French
> are 'dirty', and 'lazy' ...
Don't put words into my mouth - while you didn't use quotemarks, your
intention is quite clearly to deceive the reader - a low act.
> ROTFLMAO !!!
>
> Standards of hygiene here in France are higher than in the UK. Anyone
> feeding human faeces to his livestock would be in gaol - literally. Let
> us not forget the country that gave the world mad cow disease, shall we?
Or the country where it is not reported and hence not eliminated...
> In the UK, you can have products with 'secret ingredients', which the
> manufacturers aren't obliged to divulge. In fact, you could be eating
> shit, for all you know. In France (and in most other European nations),
> no manufacturer may withhold information about its products' ingredients.
ROTFL!!!!! Talk about clutching at straws.
I can't quite remember posting a strident criticism of French labelling
regulations so where you're going with this is anybody's guess...you're
certainly so far off my original points it is hilarious!
> France has a government which is elected for a fixed term, and not a
> day more. In the United Kingdom, there is no legal impediment to the
> government abolishing elections. It's unlikely, but it could happen.
ROTFL!!!!!! You stagger me! This is abject bullshit - you're just making
stuff up! There is no chance whatsoever that the government could get away
with that.
> In France, if an employer fires an employee for no reason, we have the
> Prud'Homme, a government agency which will prosecute the employer, and
> do so for free. In the UK, you can try an industrial tribunal, and you
> pay, and you might lose.
ROTFL!!!!!!!!! You're hardly likely to lose if you've been fired unjustly,
are you? At which juncture you'll be awarded costs.
Far better that than carte blanche to make frivolous appeals at the
taxpayer's expense.
> As for identity cards, I agree with you that they're a pain in the neck,
> but I've personally never been asked to produce mine, and to be honest,
> I'm not sure which is worse : being asked to produce an identity card,
> or being beaten to death in a police cell at Paddington Green, and having
> the CPS decide not to prosecute 'in the public interest'.
ROTFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gendarme: "Show me your papers, please"
Constable: "Well, I can't ask for your papers, so I'll beat you to death in
a Paddington Green police cell instead"
Your comparisons are so utterly, comically irrelevant it is BEYOND BELIEF!
> Oh, and then there's the famous 'D Notice'. Know what that is? It's when
> a minister (normally the Home Secretary, occasionally the Foreign
Secretary)
> *orders* a television station not to broadcast a programme, or a newspaper
> not to publish an article, because it could constitute a 'threat to
national
> security'.
And you oppose this?
Name me a single country in the world where press freedom is permitted to
extend to publishing threats to national security.
> He doesn't have to justify his action, unless the television station or
> newspaper decides to fight the D Notice in court, and when a minister
plays
> the 'national security' card, few judges will find against them.
Bullshit. How else is a review of this to take place, but judicially?
British judges will consider the facts to assess justification, just like in
any other country.
> I don't know how old you are, but do you remember 'Death on the Rock'?
It's
> when three unarmed IRA terrorists were shot (supposedly by the SAS,
although
> my money's on it being the UDA) in Gibraltar. Do you consider that to be
> the actions of a democracy?
I remember a biased, fictional ITV 'documentary'.
> Yes, they were terrorists, yes, they probably would have killed many
people
> had their bomb gone off, but does that justify stepping outside the law,
Damned right it does.
The fact that you even ask such a question is why you're a laughing stock on
this newsgroup.
> and conducting summary executions? Witnesses testified that the killers
> did not issue a warning. Under British law (and Gibraltar is still UK
> territory), a British police officer (or a soldier acting in the defence
> of the United Kingdom in peacetime), when acting in an armed capacity,
> *must* issue a warning (the usual being 'Armed Police!' - for our foreign
> friends, this is because the British police generally aren't armed, so
when
> they are, they have to make sure that anyone they're trying to arrest,
knows
> it) before opening fire, unless he genuinely believes that his life, or
that
> of the public, is in danger. Even at the inquest into the Gibraltar
shootings,
> no claim to this effect was made.
SO WHAT?
Why should they be given so much as a second to pull their weapons or
remote-detonate their bomb?
> Those three people were gunned down in cold blood.
They were gunned down to protect innocent bystanders.
> Does the end always justify the means?
In this case, without any shadow of a doubt whatsoever.
> I for one don't want my government killing in my name, whether it be in
> the execution chamber, or on the streets of Belfast.
Killings "on the streets of Belfast", as you put it, rarely if ever takes
place.
When they do, they are done to protect innocents in the vicinity, not in
your name.
If you don't see the difference between 'executing' incarcerated prisoners
and at-large terrorists - if you treat these as equivalent actions - then
you are a fool.
> I could go on with many more instances of why the United Kingdom is
> far from being the paradise that you and the 'Daily Mail' think it is.
Who said it was a 'paradise'? I didn't. Oh, that's right - you did in
another thread!
ROTFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I made my claims - they did not include this one - and my claims were
correct. All attempts by you to disprove them have failed and you have
chosen to shamelessly project (c sharpjfa) and adopt dishonest tactics in a
desperate attempt to conceal the long, hard and severe spanking that you
received.
A little piece of advice - take each thread on its merits, as I do.
Carrying on grudges into new threads - particularly against NG allies - will
not stand you in good stead when it comes to your (lack of) credibility.
> I hereby issue a formal invitation to you to come to Paris, to see that
> you're wrong about a lot of things here.
I have been to Paris on at least eight separate occasions. I am not "wrong
about a lot of things" there, chiefly because I have made virtually no
claims about Paris. You are projecting again.
> The French don't smell,
Once more you project (I like that word) in apparently confusing me with
McDonald, which frankly should be fairly difficult since we disagree on all
issues.
I have never claimed that the French smell. The personal hygiene of
Frenchmen I have met was apparently beyond reproach. What a pity the same
could not be said of their manners.
and the métro runs on time (ever tried getting
> from Heathrow to Victoria in less than 90 minutes ..?).
I do not dispute that the French public transport system is good - it should
be, with the taxes you pay for it!
We have that
> glorious protection from government that was pioneered, true, by the
> Magna Carta, the oldest constitution still in use, built upon by the
> Déclaration Universelle des Droits de l'Homme, and then copied by
> the United States Constitution.
>
> You might not think it necessary, but it ensures that we don't get fiascos
> like D Notices, the Westland Saga, and a head of state who refuses to step
> down, even when she is no longer wanted by a majority of the people.
How do you know? Polls put support for the monarchy at 80%, which in a
democracy makes it such a total non-issue that it does not even merit
discussion.
If the majority of Britons wanted the Queen removed, she would be removed.
> Come to France, Mark. You might like it.
I don't.
No, that's not strictly true. I DO like France - it's the French I can't
stand....
Hooked-on-quack's
Holman) wrote:
>In article <slrn8422vp...@tortue.coughlan.net>, des...@coughlan.net wrote:
>}In a spectacular breakthrough which once again shows the undisputed
>}superiority of Europe in matters of science, the Sanger Institute
>}at the University of Cambridge, UK, has succeeded in decoding
>}chromosome 22, and plans to make its findings freely available for
>}all, in contrast to the Americans, who (if they had won) would
>}have sold the information.
>}
>}Vive l'Europe !!
>
>
> Do we *really* to perpetuate these tirades of
> regional chauvenism? Europe is better than the
> US in some ways;
You bet. They've managed to cut soap consumption by almost eighty
percent in most households, thereby allowing soap manufacturers to
avoid costly retooling and second or third shifts which ultimately
saves energy and reduces pollution.
> the US is better than Europe
> in some ways.
No doubt. With the massive reduction in soap consumption the United
States has risen to the occassion, consuming the excess soap that
would have been dumped on the market, ruining prices and utlimately
causing more unemployment. This visonary response to the troubled
european economy has helped bolster worldwide economics.
> Can't we just leave it at that?
Sure.
Mitchell Holman
}>
}> Do we *really* to perpetuate these tirades of
}> regional chauvenism? Europe is better than the
}> US in some ways;
}
}You bet. They've managed to cut soap consumption by almost eighty
}percent in most households, thereby allowing soap manufacturers to
}avoid costly retooling and second or third shifts which ultimately
}saves energy and reduces pollution.
}
Here is Necro bashing Europe, in a European language
(the only one he knows, no doubt) using a European
invention, over European-built network, to an audience
largely composed of European descendants. How ironic.
Johannes Kepler
Mobutu Sese Seko wrote in message ...
>in article slrn842k43...@tortue.coughlan.net, Desmond Coughlan at
>des...@tortue.coughlan.net wrote on 11/28/1999 10:50 AM:
>
>>
>>> It seems as though you left several traditional Eurpopean nations off
>>> of your list Des. Don't like Bulgaria? Bosnia? Russia? Norway? Poland?
>>> Switzerland? (oh never mind, they're neutral) Not good enough for you?
>>> Maybe we can coin an "ist" word for this concept. This would be like
>>> an American defining the US as a group of say 23 states of his or her
>>> choosing. EU or not, if we're stuck with Alabama, you're stuck with
>>> Andorra. ;)
>>
>> LOL ... isn't it bad enough that you have to suffer Texas ..?
>>
>> Seriously, Europe is not a physical entity, but a cultural and economic
>> one. The countries you mentioned above, although physically close to
>> the paradise on earth that we call Europe, are not in the list, and
>> are not, therefore, part of Europe.
>
>exist at all. It is merely a bump on the end of Asia - thats why many
>geologists etc. refer to "Eurasia". Desmond is absolutely correct when he
>says Europe is only a cultural and economic unit.
>
In fact, he is absolutely wrong. And so are you, for 'Eurasia' is _NOT_ a
continent; rather, 'Eurasia' is merely a notational convenience, used to
refer to the continents of Asia and Europe together as a single landmass.
Any half-decent reference book will confirm this. (Similarly, the fact that
Australia, New Zealand and some islands are often collectively referred to
as 'Australasia' does not mean that Australia doesn't really exist.)
I repeat: Europe is a purely physical entity. The European Union is a
political entity. It is wrong to refer to the European Union as 'Europe,'
except in the colloquial sense.
>Mobutu Sese-Seko
>
Johannes Kepler
>
>> > In a spectacular breakthrough which once again shows the undisputed
>> > superiority of Europe in matters of science, the Sanger Institute
>> > at the University of Cambridge, UK, has succeeded in decoding
>> > chromosome 22, and plans to make its findings freely available for
>> > all, in contrast to the Americans, who (if they had won) would
>> > have sold the information.
[snip]
>
>What do you think of latest 'news' about French farmers feeding human
>waste to their livestock? I suppose you believe it ... sure, the French
>are 'dirty', and 'lazy' ...
>
>ROTFLMAO !!!
>
>Standards of hygiene here in France are higher than in the UK.
[snip]
>I hereby issue a formal invitation to you to come to Paris, to see that
>you're wrong about a lot of things here.
>
>The French don't smell,
[snip]
>
>Come to France, Mark. You might like it.
[snip]
Then again, he might not, if this news story is even partly true...
PARIS -- The young woman in the White Sox cap would give her name only
as Sophie. Her golden lab would go by Mellis. No last names, please.
Mellis, luckily for her, was too excited by all the attention to commit the
crime
the two had in mind.
Their mistake was to stroll down the Passage des Marais, a pedestrian
alley,
just as an anti-dog-poop demonstration was at its height. The demonstrators
drew chalk circles around the piles, sang anti-doggie ditties and repelled
dog
owners by offering them chocolate versions of what they had planned to
leave.
Because there were as many journalists as demonstrators about, the two
quickly were mobbed. "Not everyone in Paris is dirty," Sophie said. "But
it's
difficult for Mellis to go between two cars. We need someplace especially
for
dogs."
How about, she was asked, just picking it up, as the citizens of other
great
metropolises do?
"Oh, well -- maybe if the city provided plastic bags," she said. "And
perhaps
the city could teach the correct way to use them."
As always in Paris, it is the government's fault.
Dog waste, Le Figaro said, "sticks to Paris' reputation the way fog does to
London's." Tourists are revolted at what they find underfoot as they gaze
overhead. An average of 650 people a year break bones or are hospitalized
after slipping in it.
In a Harris poll of neighborhood cleanliness, 94 percent of Parisians
polled
said they considered it the most offensive aspect of public litter.
The city is trying to do something about the problem. It has begun a poster
and movie-short campaign hoping to awaken the average Parisian's sense of
guilt.
The best-known movie short follows a blind man navigating city streets.
When
he gets home and hangs up his white cane, the camera lingers on what he has
speared en brochette. One poster shows a person in a wheelchair who has
run through a pile and is about to put her hand in the mess on her wheel. A
third shows a boy playing in the grass with filth-covered toys.
"You're right not to pick it up," the campaign motto says to dog owners.
"They do it very well for you."
Frankly, since the campaign began Sept. 30, there has been no rush by
apologetic Parisians to mend their ways.
The city calculates that its 200,000 resident dogs deposit 16 tons of waste
a
day, of which the city cleans up 12 tons, at a cost of about a dollar a
pound.
Much of the work is done by 70 green "caninette" motorcycles with vacuum
cleaners attached, but that is too few, and some are sidelined in a
contract
dispute.
City officials such as Patrick Tremege, adjunct mayor for environmental
matters and the force behind the ad campaign, know that asking politely is
not
enough.
Tremege has the experience to know that the stick works better than the
doggie treat.
In 1974, as a 21-year-old student, he left the island of Madagascar, a
French
colony where his parents owned fields of ylang-ylang perfume-oil trees. He
flew to New York to take an internship. There, he became a dog walker for
diplomats -- three mutts four times a day, up and down First Avenue in
front
of the United Nations.
He remembered the effective American pooper-scooper he owned back
then. He said he filled his office in Paris with French engineers trying to
re-create the design.
He also remembered the night he got lazy.
"It was 8 p.m., it was winter, it was dark," he said. "One of the dogs did
it,
and this police car turned around and put on its lights. Woo-woo! You don't
know Madagascar, but I'd never seen a police car with a siren, and I was
terrified. I just liquefied.
"I was convinced they were going to shoot me. I don't even know what the
policeman said -- I didn't have much English and I was watching his hands
to
see if he would go for his gun. In the end, he could see I was a foreigner
paralyzed by fear, and he let me go."
Fearful is more or less how he wants Parisians to feel. But even he, an
adjunct
mayor, said it is the government's fault.
In this case, he said, it is because Paris is the national capital. And the
mayor
has no real control over the police, traffic, parking or public sanitation.
The
national police are responsible, "but French police have a very high idea
of
what their duties are, and they think this is beneath them," he said. "They
give
out only six tickets a year."
Even worse, local law requires dog owners to urge their dogs into the
gutter,
not to pick up after them. Parisians also ignore the leash law, allowing
them to
use the old "My-goodness-whose-bad-dog-is-doing-
that-way-over-there?" trick.
Frustrated, Tremege shifted 50 of his park custodians to dog patrol.
But Benoit Pastisson, an organizer of the Passage des Marais demonstration,
said that even those 50 custodians work 9 to 5 while dog owners creep into
the streets before dawn and after the late movie.
Tremege said the real problem is that his men have no legal power to demand
identification or make arrests. "Some people don't know that, because they
handed out 900 tickets this year," he said. "But if you say 'no,' there's
nothing
they can do."
So why are Parisians so uncooperative? "Anglo-Saxons are more civilized
people -- just look at how they wait at traffic lights," Pastisson said.
Tremege threw up his hands. In Paris, there are more people living with
dogs
per capita than in any other big city, he said (and they vote, which is why
the
law is so lax).
Beyond that, "How can I explain?" he said. "French people are made in such
a way so that seeing it in the street is not as shocking as it is to you."
Next year, he said, he will ask Parliament to give his park workers the
power
to arrest. Until then, Parisians will have to watch their step.
Mobutu Sese Seko
st_george99@NO_SPAMhotmail.com wrote on 11/28/1999 7:30 PM:
> French people, however, and in particular Parisiennes, are almost without
> exception rude, unhelpful and insular.
Ce n'est pas possible.
Mobutu Sese-Seko
Desmond Coughlan
> > In fact, you could be eating
> > shit, for all you know.
> Ça ne se fait pas! Les anglais sont des gastronomes, n'est-ce pas?
>
> forgive my French,
Your French was almost perfect, Mobuto ... mais à part ça, tout
le monde sait que les Anglais mangent de la merde ... et maintenant,
ils veulent nous imposer leur merde ... pourquoi ne la gardent-ils pas
pour eux ..?
--
Desmond Coughlan |Restez Zen ... UNIX peut le faire
des...@coughlan.net
http://www.coughlan.net/desmond/
Desmond Coughlan
> > > the undisputed
> > >superiority of Europe
> > I don't usually enter these inane OT US vs. the world discussions but
> > please, for the sake of argument, define Europe. And while your at it,
> > why do you get to claim an entire group of seperate nations as "your
> > side"
> Personally, as a Briton, I consider the U.S. to be far more 'on my side'
> than, for instance, France.
You're not 'a Briton', Mark; you're English. For you people, the two terms
are synonomous anyway ...
Desmond Coughlan
[snip]
> Desmond, please don't count you codons before they're mapped. A parallel
> effort called the Human Genome Sequencing Project is being conducted by
> CELERA Genomics Rockville, MD. May the best technology win!
Read the article, Terry: the Europeans have already won. :-)
[snip]
Desmond Coughlan
> > French people, however, and in particular Parisiennes, are almost without
> > exception rude, unhelpful and insular.
> Ce n'est pas possible.
Sur ce plan-l`, Mark a raison ... :-)
Desmond Coughlan
[_ad homina_ and self-congratulatory declarations of 'victory' snipped]
> ROTFL!!! You couldn't name a more free one when I previously challenged you
> do so while I was positively thwacking your bare behind in another thread!
>
> Care to name one now? Unwise, as I'll shoot you down in flames yet again -
> better just continue with the ad homina!
As you use your own definition of 'free', Mark, I doubt that I could
'better you'.
Lemme guess ... another 'spanking'.
Did you go to public school ..?
> > Here in France, if the government abuses its powers, there is a
> > Constitutional Court (which the government can*NOT* ignore, unless
> > if wants to find itself deposed by the military). What does the UK
> > have? The House of Lords, and as the peers are appointed by the
> > government, they're virtually guaranteed a majority (as soon as the
> > current crop of old Tories pop their clogs). Then there's Strasbourg,
> > which, incidentally, has issued more judgements against the United
> > Kingdom for abuses of its citizens' human rights, than against any other
> > European power.
> ROTFL!!!! I thought you were trying to imply there was no protection for
> UK citizens against government abuse of power. You'd have made a much
> better case by not referring so frequently to the court that does just that
> and then referring to the many times it has done it!
The European Court of Justice is not a British institution, Mark.
[snip]
> > Standards of hygiene here in France are higher than in the UK. Anyone
> > feeding human faeces to his livestock would be in gaol - literally. Let
> > us not forget the country that gave the world mad cow disease, shall we?
> Or the country where it is not reported and hence not eliminated...
Very clever; 'Yes, we fed shit to our livestock, all to increase
profits, and then our government lied about it for years (with one
government minister even making his daughter eat a burger on national
television), but we eventually couldn't deny it any longer, and so we
came clean ... so you see, we're an honest nation!!'
LOL ... bloody priceless.
[snip]
> > France has a government which is elected for a fixed term, and not a
> > day more. In the United Kingdom, there is no legal impediment to the
> > government abolishing elections. It's unlikely, but it could happen.
> ROTFL!!!!!! You stagger me! This is abject bullshit - you're just making
> stuff up! There is no chance whatsoever that the government could get away
> with that.
Name the consitutional impediment to doing so. If you fail to do so,
I shall have to declare 'victory', and (not wanting to excite you)
claim to have 'spanked' you.
> > In France, if an employer fires an employee for no reason, we have the
> > Prud'Homme, a government agency which will prosecute the employer, and
> > do so for free. In the UK, you can try an industrial tribunal, and you
> > pay, and you might lose.
> ROTFL!!!!!!!!! You're hardly likely to lose if you've been fired unjustly,
> are you? At which juncture you'll be awarded costs.
Incorrect.
Someone I know lost his job, the company claiming that the job itself
no longer existed. The Tribunal was presented with photographic and
documented evidence that someone else had been hired for the same
job. The case was dismissed. Costs not paid.
> Far better that than carte blanche to make frivolous appeals at the
> taxpayer's expense.
'Frivolous appeals' ..?
Now where have I heard that before, if it wasn't from the mouths of
other apologists for state abuses ...?
[see-no-evil denial of police abuses snipped]
> > Oh, and then there's the famous 'D Notice'. Know what that is? It's when
> > a minister (normally the Home Secretary, occasionally the Foreign
> Secretary)
> > *orders* a television station not to broadcast a programme, or a newspaper
> > not to publish an article, because it could constitute a 'threat to
> national
> > security'.
> And you oppose this?
When it's used (as in the Westland affair or the Arms-to-Iraq saga)
to protect the jobs of the politicians involved, yes, I do.
> Name me a single country in the world where press freedom is permitted to
> extend to publishing threats to national security.
Name me one country in the world where the government has carte
blanche to censor the press without having to give any justification.
No, allow me save you the trouble: the United Kingdom. Name another:
Saudi Arabia. Another? Iraq. China. The Yemen.
Had enough, or do 'spankings' turn you on ..?
> > He doesn't have to justify his action, unless the television station or
> > newspaper decides to fight the D Notice in court, and when a minister
> plays
> > the 'national security' card, few judges will find against them.
> Bullshit. How else is a review of this to take place, but judicially?
Name me one occasion on which a D Notice was quashed.
> British judges will consider the facts to assess justification, just like in
> any other country.
British judges are (in the main) old Tories who occasionally tell
rapists to buy their victims a bunch of flowers, or who claim that
10-year-old rape victims were 'asking for it'.
If that's what you term 'considering the facts', then please tell me
what you're smoking, 'cos it must be good shit.
> > I don't know how old you are, but do you remember 'Death on the Rock'?
> It's
> > when three unarmed IRA terrorists were shot (supposedly by the SAS,
> although
> > my money's on it being the UDA) in Gibraltar. Do you consider that to be
> > the actions of a democracy?
> I remember a biased, fictional ITV 'documentary'.
Which happened to win awards, and re-open the inquiry into the matter.
> > Yes, they were terrorists, yes, they probably would have killed many
> people
> > had their bomb gone off, but does that justify stepping outside the law,
> Damned right it does.
>
> The fact that you even ask such a question is why you're a laughing stock on
> this newsgroup.
I don't see anyone else laughing, Mark.
> > and conducting summary executions? Witnesses testified that the killers
> > did not issue a warning. Under British law (and Gibraltar is still UK
> > territory), a British police officer (or a soldier acting in the defence
> > of the United Kingdom in peacetime), when acting in an armed capacity,
> > *must* issue a warning (the usual being 'Armed Police!' - for our foreign
> > friends, this is because the British police generally aren't armed, so
> when
> > they are, they have to make sure that anyone they're trying to arrest,
> knows
> > it) before opening fire, unless he genuinely believes that his life, or
> that
> > of the public, is in danger. Even at the inquest into the Gibraltar
> shootings,
> > no claim to this effect was made.
> SO WHAT?
>
> Why should they be given so much as a second to pull their weapons or
> remote-detonate their bomb?
They were unarmed, and not in possession of detonators. Witnesses
(who had no reason to lie, and who were believed by the inquest, and
by the European Court of Justice) testified that when shot, two of the
three terrorists had their arms in the air and were surrendering.
> > Those three people were gunned down in cold blood.
> They were gunned down to protect innocent bystanders.
When shot, they were unarmed, and attempting to surrender.
> > Does the end always justify the means?
> In this case, without any shadow of a doubt whatsoever.
I asked you what age you were, as I wasn't sure if you remembered the
events.
Your response leaves none of us in doubt as to your age.
> > I for one don't want my government killing in my name, whether it be in
> > the execution chamber, or on the streets of Belfast.
> Killings "on the streets of Belfast", as you put it, rarely if ever takes
> place.
Not now, thankfully, but some of us are old enough to remember the
almost nightly shootings in Belfast.
> When they do, they are done to protect innocents in the vicinity, not in
> your name.
Up until May 1997, I was a resident of the United Kingdom. The
killing of innocent civilians with rubber bullets or of terrorists
with live bullets, was done in the name of every British citizen.
> If you don't see the difference between 'executing' incarcerated prisoners
> and at-large terrorists - if you treat these as equivalent actions - then
> you are a fool.
More _ad homina_. Anything less constructive to add, Mark, or did
your above comment constitute another 'spanking'? Hell, I can barely
sit down, you've 'spanked' me so often ...
[snip]
> I made my claims - they did not include this one - and my claims were
> correct. All attempts by you to disprove them have failed and you have
> chosen to shamelessly project (c sharpjfa)
'C sharpjfa'?
If you're trying to be intellectual, Mark, you might use correct
English.
> and adopt dishonest tactics in a desperate attempt to conceal the
> long, hard and severe spanking that you received.
Mark, I'm almost a married man; you'll have to stop with these
'spankings' ...
LOL ...
> A little piece of advice - take each thread on its merits, as I do.
Shucks, Mark; thanks for that. Wow, having just bought my first PC,
and got a connection to the Internet, I really need your advice. Now
let me give you a little piece: aside from John, Mitchell, and Dan, no
one here has been on the newsgroup longer than I. If anyone needs
advice as to what to do with threads, you can be sure that it's not me.
> Carrying on grudges into new threads - particularly against NG allies - will
> not stand you in good stead when it comes to your (lack of) credibility.
My credibility needs no help from you. You're reading too much Sharp,
Wesley, and Kool.
[snip]
> We have that
> > glorious protection from government that was pioneered, true, by the
> > Magna Carta, the oldest constitution still in use, built upon by the
> > Déclaration Universelle des Droits de l'Homme, and then copied by
> > the United States Constitution.
> >
> > You might not think it necessary, but it ensures that we don't get fiascos
> > like D Notices, the Westland Saga, and a head of state who refuses to step
> > down, even when she is no longer wanted by a majority of the people.
> How do you know? Polls put support for the monarchy at 80%, which in a
> democracy makes it such a total non-issue that it does not even merit
> discussion.
Polls do not constitute (nor should they) public policy. No Briton
has ever, *ever* been asked if he wants to pay for the monarchy.
Now pull up your trousers, because this is getting boring.
> If the majority of Britons wanted the Queen removed, she would be removed.
Suuuuure ...
What colour is the sky in your world, Mark ..?
[snip]
Peter Morris
Hooked-on-quack's <deadmkennedy's...@honest.org> wrote in message
> > Do we *really* to perpetuate these tirades of
> > regional chauvenism? Europe is better than the
> > US in some ways;
>
> You bet. They've managed to cut soap consumption by almost eighty
> percent in most households, thereby allowing soap manufacturers to
> avoid costly retooling and second or third shifts which ultimately
> saves energy and reduces pollution.
>
> > the US is better than Europe
> > in some ways.
>
> No doubt. With the massive reduction in soap consumption the United
> States has risen to the occassion, consuming the excess soap that
> would have been dumped on the market, ruining prices and utlimately
> causing more unemployment. This visonary response to the troubled
> european economy has helped bolster worldwide economics.
Necro, if you can't resist flaming, please at least try to
show some originality in your flames. Being a second
rate imitator ogf Don Kool of all people is possibly the
most pathetic thing I have seen in this forum. Please
get a life.
Rev. Don Kool
Desi Coughlan <des...@cybercable.fr> wrote:
> Executioner <Execu...@Huntsville.com> wrote:
> [snip]
>
> > >Seriously, Europe is not a physical entity, but a cultural and economic
> > >one.
>
> > Europe is a continent. Any country on this continent is European.
>
> Wrong again, I'm afraid. If I drive east, I leave Europe upon crossing
> the German border into Poland.
ROTFLOLASTD!! And young fatherless Desi wonders why he is the
acknowledged laughingstock of alt.activism.death-penalty. Poland is
still part of europe, my uneducated young friend. Europe still
retains the just Death Penalty and executed 17 people as recently as
1997.
Hope this helps,
Don
--
********************** You a bounty hunter?
* Rev. Don McDonald * Man's gotta earn a living.
* Baltimore, MD * Dying ain't much of a living, boy.
********************** "Outlaw Josey Wales"
http://members.home.net/oldno7
Johannes Kepler
Desmond Coughlan wrote in message ...
>
>[snip]
>
>> >Seriously, Europe is not a physical entity, but a cultural and economic
>> >one.
>
>> Europe is a continent. Any country on this continent is European.
>
>Wrong again, I'm afraid. If I drive east, I leave Europe upon crossing
>the German border into Poland.
>
Why do you persist with this nonsense? If you drive east from Berlin,
Germany, you will leave the European Union as you enter Poland; however, you
are still on the continent of Europe, which does not end until reaching the
Ural Mountains.
Desmond Coughlan
[snip]
> >Come to France, Mark. You might like it.
> Then again, he might not, if this news story is even partly true...
>
> PARIS -- The young woman in the White Sox cap would give her name only
> as Sophie. Her golden lab would go by Mellis. No last names, please.
[snip]
Dog waste on the 'sidewalks' (sic) *is* a big problem in Paris, and I
fully support the attempts by the Mairie de Paris to get tough with
the lazy gits that allow their animals to defecate anywhere ...
Desmond Coughlan
[snip]
> >> Europe is a continent. Any country on this continent is European.
> >Wrong again, I'm afraid. If I drive east, I leave Europe upon crossing
> >the German border into Poland.
> Why do you persist with this nonsense? If you drive east from Berlin,
> Germany, you will leave the European Union as you enter Poland; however, you
> are still on the continent of Europe, which does not end until reaching the
> Ural Mountains.
When Russia appears in this list:
http://www.europa.eu.int/en/eu/states.htm
it will be part of Europe.
Not before.
Terry C. Shannon
Johannes Kepler <spam...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:820qhd$2pll$1...@thoth.cts.com...
>
> Desmond Coughlan wrote in message ...
> >Executioner <Execu...@Huntsville.com> wrote:
> >
> >[snip]
> >
> >> >Seriously, Europe is not a physical entity, but a cultural and
economic
> >> >one.
> >
> >
> >Wrong again, I'm afraid. If I drive east, I leave Europe upon crossing
> >the German border into Poland.
> >
>
>
> Why do you persist with this nonsense? If you drive east from Berlin,
> Germany, you will leave the European Union as you enter Poland; however,
you
> are still on the continent of Europe, which does not end until reaching
the
> Ural Mountains.
>
If memory serves me correctly, one can stand on the left-hand side of
Istambul and be in Europe. If I recall correctly, crossing the bridge over
the Bosporus places one smack-dab in Asia.
Correct?
Johannes Kepler
Desmond Coughlan wrote in message ...
>
>> >Wrong again, I'm afraid. If I drive east, I leave Europe upon crossing
>> >the German border into Poland.
>
>> Why do you persist with this nonsense? If you drive east from Berlin,
>> Germany, you will leave the European Union as you enter Poland; however,
you
>> are still on the continent of Europe, which does not end until reaching
the
>> Ural Mountains.
>
>
>http://www.europa.eu.int/en/eu/states.htm
>
>it will be part of Europe.
>
>Not before.
>
The first line on the web-site above asks, "What is the European Union?" It
does not ask, "What is Europe?"
Yet still you persist. Europe is a continent; the European Union is a
political entity. It is wrong to refer to the European Union as 'Europe,'
except in the colloquial sense.
>--
Mobutu Sese Seko
wrote on 11/30/1999 8:33 AM:
>
>
> Desi Coughlan <des...@cybercable.fr> wrote:
>> Executioner <Execu...@Huntsville.com> wrote:
>
>> [snip]
>>
>>>> Seriously, Europe is not a physical entity, but a cultural and economic
>>>> one.
>>
>>> Europe is a continent. Any country on this continent is European.
>>
>> Wrong again, I'm afraid. If I drive east, I leave Europe upon crossing
>> the German border into Poland.
>
> ROTFLOLASTD!! And young fatherless Desi wonders why he is the
> acknowledged laughingstock of alt.activism.death-penalty. Poland is
> still part of europe, my uneducated young friend. Europe still
> retains the just Death Penalty and executed 17 people as recently as
> 1997.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Don
If that were true, then why do you try so hard (and so pathetically) to
insult Europe? You should consider Europeans to be comrades in justice!
Mobutu Sese-Seko
Johannes Kepler
Mobutu Sese Seko wrote in message ...
>wrote on 11/30/1999 8:33 AM:
>
>>
>>
>> Desi Coughlan <des...@cybercable.fr> wrote:
>>> Executioner <Execu...@Huntsville.com> wrote:
>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>>> Seriously, Europe is not a physical entity, but a cultural and
economic
>>>>> one.
>>>
>>>> Europe is a continent. Any country on this continent is European.
>>>
>>> Wrong again, I'm afraid. If I drive east, I leave Europe upon crossing
>>> the German border into Poland.
>>
>> ROTFLOLASTD!! And young fatherless Desi wonders why he is the
>> acknowledged laughingstock of alt.activism.death-penalty. Poland is
>> still part of europe, my uneducated young friend. Europe still
>> retains the just Death Penalty and executed 17 people as recently as
>> 1997.
On a recent trip to Scotland, I was listening to the radio in the car. The
station was offering a trip to the USA for the first caller that could
answer some trivia question. Someone called with the correct answer, won
the prize, and was then asked by the radio presenter, "Have you ever been to
America before?" To which she answered, "No, but I've been to South
America." "Really?" asked the presenter, "which part?" And she said,
"Mexico." (The presenter didn't correct her.)
The Scottish education system seems to place little emphasis on basic
geography.
Åndrew R
> Desmond Coughlan wrote in message ...
> >Johannes Kepler <spam...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >[snip]
> >
> >> >> Europe is a continent. Any country on this continent is European.
> >
> >> >Wrong again, I'm afraid. If I drive east, I leave Europe upon crossing
> >> >the German border into Poland.
> >
> >> Why do you persist with this nonsense? If you drive east from Berlin,
> >> Germany, you will leave the European Union as you enter Poland; however,
> you
> >> are still on the continent of Europe, which does not end until reaching
> the
> >> Ural Mountains.
> >
> >When Russia appears in this list:
> >
> >http://www.europa.eu.int/en/eu/states.htm
> >
> >it will be part of Europe.
> >
> >Not before.
> >
>
> The first line on the web-site above asks, "What is the European Union?" It
> does not ask, "What is Europe?"
>
> Yet still you persist. Europe is a continent; the European Union is a
> political entity. It is wrong to refer to the European Union as 'Europe,'
> except in the colloquial sense.
Europe exists in two senses. There is the political entity of Europe, which is
all countries that are member states of the EU, and there is the geographical
entity, which is the land mass from Ireland in the west to the Ural mountains
ion the east, Istanbul in the south east and the rock of Gibraltar in the south
west (rough 'corners.') Normally it can be worked out from context which is
being referred to, but some times it is unclear.
Andrew
--
"It is better to risk saving a guilty person than to condemn an innocent one." -
Voltaire
http://qbandvb.cjb.net Andrew's QBASIC and Visual BASIC page.
http://qbandvb.cjb.net/ace/ ACE - The Active Clipboard Editor for Windows.
ICQ 53186881
Johannes Kepler
Åndrew R wrote in message <384434D2...@geocities.com>...
Mostly true. However, there is no such political entity as 'Europe.' There
never has been. The European Union is often _informally_ called 'Europe,'
and as long as everyone understands the difference between formal and
informal, I don't object. However, Desmond Coughlan appears to be convinced
that 'Europe' is officially the same thing as the 'European Union,' which is
manifest nonsense. Europe is a continent; the European Union is a political
entity. Perhaps one day the EU will absorb all European states, but for
now, the EU and Europe are two different things (in the formal sense).
EU != Europe
USA != America
JK
St George
> > > shit, for all you know.
>
> > Ça ne se fait pas! Les anglais sont des gastronomes, n'est-ce pas?
> >
> > forgive my French,
>
> Your French was almost perfect, Mobuto ... mais à part ça, tout
> le monde sait que les Anglais mangent de la merde ... et maintenant,
> ils veulent nous imposer leur merde ... pourquoi ne la gardent-ils pas
> pour eux ..?
God, it must be hell to be you, Desmond.
How can you survive having that streak of supreme arrogance right alongside
your desperate self-loathing? Split personality or what?
And how ironic that it is the ENGLISH you accuse, when of course it is the
French who have found out they are doing so in the most literal of senses...
St George
Desmond Coughlan <des...@lievre.coughlan.net> wrote in message
news:slrn8479b2....@lievre.coughlan.net...
> St George <st_george99@NO_SPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > the undisputed
> > > >superiority of Europe
>
> > > I don't usually enter these inane OT US vs. the world discussions but
> > > please, for the sake of argument, define Europe. And while your at it,
> > > why do you get to claim an entire group of seperate nations as "your
> > > side"
>
> > Personally, as a Briton, I consider the U.S. to be far more 'on my side'
> > than, for instance, France.
>
> You're not 'a Briton', Mark; you're English. For you people, the two
terms
> are synonomous anyway ...
What do you mean by 'you people'?
I do hope you're not classifying and stereotyping, Desmond - that wouldn't
be very liberal now, would it?
As for your comment, I can be both a Briton and an Englishman (and even a
European, if you must) at the same time, just as a Texan can simultaneously
be an American.
Of course, this you know full well - hence your remark was nothing more than
a cheap and juvenile flame - the preserve of he who has lost the argument...
Trinity
<st_george99@NO_SPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
> I do hope you're not classifying and stereotyping, Desmond - that wouldn't
> be very liberal now, would it?
> Of course, this you know full well - hence your remark was nothing more than
> a cheap and juvenile flame - the preserve of he who has lost the argument...
must... keep... mouth... shut...
Oh well. Can't do it.
Desmond amazes me. I simply cannot believe after all the ridicule he's
been held up to, (even by his "own side" of the DP issue) that he'd
post yet another off-topic troll.
Johannes Kepler
Trinity wrote in message <301119991552157945%dead_p...@hotmail.com>...
He amazes me, too. I am opposed to the death penalty, but I feel that
Desmond's misplaced arrogance is hurting the abolitionist argument. He
claims that several people have written to him privately and informed him
that they were swayed to the abolitionist side by his arguments; yet I
wonder, how many people went in the opposite direction, thoroughly pissed
with his arrogance? The sooner he loses his childish infatuation with
France and the European Union, the better life around here will become.
(Oh, and contrary to Desmond's recent claim that France has more Nobel
Laureates in the field of mathematics than all other nations combined,
France, in fact, has precisely zero such Laureates, for the simple reason
that there is no Nobel Prize awarded for mathematics. Seems like every time
he ventures _ultra crepidam_ he makes a fool of himself.)
JK
Mobutu Sese Seko
des...@tortue.coughlan.net wrote on 11/30/1999 2:42 AM:
> Mobutu Sese Seko <mob...@mobutu.za> wrote:
>
>>> In fact, you could be eating
>>> shit, for all you know.
>
>> Ça ne se fait pas! Les anglais sont des gastronomes, n'est-ce pas?
>>
>> forgive my French,
>
> Your French was almost perfect, Mobuto ... mais à part ça, tout
> le monde sait que les Anglais mangent de la merde ... et maintenant,
> ils veulent nous imposer leur merde ... pourquoi ne la gardent-ils pas
> pour eux ..?
>
Je crois que c'est evident que les anglais ne sont pas égoïste. Ils veulent
partager leurs «trésor» avec tout le monde.
Mobutu Sese-Seko
St George
> St George <st_george99@NO_SPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>
Apologies for the shortness of this response - I was going to fill up 20k
with a reply, but then I realised I would sooner fu...(snipped on insistence
of significant other :-)
<snip concession of defeat, unsupported speculation on my education, excuses
for appalling French farming hygiene practices and references to
sado-masochistic sexual practices>
> > > France has a government which is elected for a fixed term, and not a
> > > day more. In the United Kingdom, there is no legal impediment to the
> > > government abolishing elections. It's unlikely, but it could happen.
>
> > ROTFL!!!!!! You stagger me! This is abject bullshit - you're just
making
> > stuff up! There is no chance whatsoever that the government could get
away
> > with that.
>
> Name the consitutional impediment to doing so. If you fail to do so,
> I shall have to declare 'victory', and (not wanting to excite you)
> claim to have 'spanked' you.
The Queen may dissolve parliament.
(Thwack!)
<snip unsupported and biased descriptions of alleged tribunal, weak attempt
to equate me with hardcore retentionists, fact-free denunciation of clear
proof of wholly justified police action against terrorists, wilful
disrespect and lack of understanding for the tenets of national security,
laughable implications that all judges are mere puppets of the government,
further references to sado-masochistic sexual practices>
>
> > > He doesn't have to justify his action, unless the television station
or
> > > newspaper decides to fight the D Notice in court, and when a minister
> > plays
> > > the 'national security' card, few judges will find against them.
>
> > Bullshit. How else is a review of this to take place, but judicially?
>
> Name me one occasion on which a D Notice was quashed.
Earlier this year, in fact.
(Thwack!)
[massive fuss made in all the papers, details forgotten by me - will be
looked up if you bloody well insist]
<snip unfounded allegations regarding political persuasions of judiciary,
apocryphal and falsified descriptions of judicial misconduct without
reference, apparent request for me to illegally supply controlled
substances, pathetic liberal fawning over terrorist murderers, naive belief
that said murderers just wanted to peacefully surrender>
> I asked you what age you were, as I wasn't sure if you remembered the
> events.
>
> Your response leaves none of us in doubt as to your age.
Really? Please enlighten us...I'll even give you a clue - it was my birthday
yesterday.
Besides, aren't YOU the young one, 'Desi'?
<snip irrational blame of British security forces rather than vicious
terrorists for killings in Ulster, lack of understanding of nature of police
action and law with reference to intent, weak complaints about 'ad homina'
rather than addressing point, yet further references to sado-masochistic
sexual practices>
>
> > I made my claims - they did not include this one - and my claims were
> > correct. All attempts by you to disprove them have failed and you have
> > chosen to shamelessly project (c sharpjfa)
>
> 'C sharpjfa'?
It stands for 'copyright' - it was a joke..
<snip inability to recognise humour, unfounded and argument-avoiding
grammatical flames, confirmation of newbie status, pleas for IT advice,
still further references to sado-masochistic sexual practices>
>
> > We have that
> > > glorious protection from government that was pioneered, true, by the
> > > Magna Carta, the oldest constitution still in use, built upon by the
> > > Déclaration Universelle des Droits de l'Homme, and then copied by
> > > the United States Constitution.
> > >
> > > You might not think it necessary, but it ensures that we don't get
fiascos
> > > like D Notices, the Westland Saga, and a head of state who refuses to
step
> > > down, even when she is no longer wanted by a majority of the people.
>
> > How do you know? Polls put support for the monarchy at 80%, which in a
> > democracy makes it such a total non-issue that it does not even merit
> > discussion.
>
> Polls do not constitute (nor should they) public policy. No Briton
> has ever, *ever* been asked if he wants to pay for the monarchy.
And nor should they be, as they don't pay.
We found that out, didn't we, when you claimed:
> Now tell me how much the monarchy *officially* costs, and multiply that
figure by three, and you'll see that:
>
> (income from tourism * 3) < cost of monarchy
Funnily enough, I note that you haven't responded to my reply yet. Could
that be because I proved you not only wrong, but wrong by a factor of ONE
THOUSAND, perhaps?
ROTFL!
(Thwack!)
< snip inadequate understanding of democratic process, curious allegations
of interplanetary travel and habitation, and (quite astonishingly, not to
mention worryingly), still FURTHER references to sado-masochistic sexual
practices>
<pithy final comment snipped as unnecessarily 'rubbing it in'>
Mark
Executioner
>Executioner <Execu...@Huntsville.com> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> >Seriously, Europe is not a physical entity, but a cultural and economic
>> >one.
>
>
>Wrong again, I'm afraid. If I drive east, I leave Europe upon crossing
>the German border into Poland.
Wrong. Webster's, the authoritative dictionary of American English, defines
Europe as the "continent between Europe and the Atlantic Ocean: the Ural
Mountains <in the FSU> are generally considered the eastern boundary. If you
consult the Oxford dictionary you will probably get a similar definition.
Only a stupid Frog would think Europe ends with Germany.
Executioner
>Johannes Kepler <spam...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>
>> >Wrong again, I'm afraid. If I drive east, I leave Europe upon crossing
>> >the German border into Poland.
>
>> Germany, you will leave the European Union as you enter Poland; however, you
>> are still on the continent of Europe, which does not end until reaching the
>> Ural Mountains.
>
>When Russia appears in this list:
>
>http://www.europa.eu.int/en/eu/states.htm
>
>it will be part of Europe.
I suppose Switzerland, which is in the heart of Europe, isn't really a
European country since the Swiss aren't in the EU.
>Not before.
Btw, what does this silly little thread you began have to do with the D.P?
Executioner
>In article <38421269....@news.ot.centuryinter.net>,
> psychic...@profiler.com wrote:
>
>}>
>}> Do we *really* to perpetuate these tirades of
>}> regional chauvenism? Europe is better than the
>}> US in some ways;
>}
>}You bet. They've managed to cut soap consumption by almost eighty
>}percent in most households, thereby allowing soap manufacturers to
>}avoid costly retooling and second or third shifts which ultimately
>}saves energy and reduces pollution.
>}
>
> (the only one he knows, no doubt)
Most Americans do study a foreign language in school even though they probably
never become fluent.
>using a European
> invention,
The first computer was built at the University of Pennsylvania during WWII.
It was designed to help American troops calculate howitzer shell trajectories
more accurately so that we could save the Europeans from themselves.
>over European-built network,
The internet was created in the late 1960's in the U.S.
> to an audience
> largely composed of European descendants. How ironic.
opr...@yahoo.com
"St George" <st_george99@NO_SPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Desmond Coughlan <des...@tortue.coughlan.net> wrote in message
> news:slrn847091...@tortue.coughlan.net...
> >
> > > > In fact, you could be eating
> > > > shit, for all you know.
> >
> > > Ça ne se fait pas! Les anglais sont des gastronomes, n'est-ce pas?
> > >
> > > forgive my French,
> >
> > Your French was almost perfect, Mobuto ... mais à part ça, tout
> > le monde sait que les Anglais mangent de la merde ... et maintenant,
> > ils veulent nous imposer leur merde ... pourquoi ne la gardent-ils
pas
> > pour eux ..?
>
>
> How can you survive having that streak of supreme arrogance right
alongside
> your desperate self-loathing? Split personality or what?
>
> And how ironic that it is the ENGLISH you accuse, when of course it is
the
> French who have found out they are doing so in the most literal of
senses...
>
Ya know, Mark, you're pretty funny, for an anti!! ;-)
Patrick
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
opr...@yahoo.com
at
> des...@tortue.coughlan.net wrote on 11/30/1999 2:42 AM:
>
> >
> >>> In fact, you could be eating
> >>> shit, for all you know.
> >
> >> Ça ne se fait pas! Les anglais sont des gastronomes, n'est-ce pas?
> >>
> >> forgive my French,
> >
> > Your French was almost perfect, Mobuto ... mais à part ça, tout
> > le monde sait que les Anglais mangent de la merde ... et maintenant,
> > ils veulent nous imposer leur merde ... pourquoi ne la gardent-ils
pas
> > pour eux ..?
> >
>
veulent
> partager leurs «trésor» avec tout le monde.
>
> Mobutu Sese-Seko
>
Schade!! Warum konnen wir Englisch nicht sprechen? Es ist eine viel
besser Sprache uber alles!!
mgcu...@connect.net
des...@coughlan.net wrote:
> In a spectacular breakthrough which once again shows the undisputed
> superiority of Europe in matters of science, the Sanger Institute
> at the University of Cambridge, UK, has succeeded in decoding
> chromosome 22, and plans to make its findings freely available for
> all, in contrast to the Americans, who (if they had won) would
> have sold the information.
>
> Vive l'Europe !!
I just read the article on the MSNBC site, and it said that the
breakthrough was done by an _international_ team that included
British, American, and Japanese scientists.
To quote:
"About 217 scientists participated in the research,
including those from the Sanger Center in Cambridge,
England; Keio University School of Medicine in Tokyo; the
University of Oklahoma; Washington University in St.
Louis; the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia; the University
of Alberta in Canada; Albert Einstein College of Medicine
in New York; the California Institute of Technology; and the
Karolinska Hospital in Sweden."
Why you would want to misrepresent this as an exclusively European
accomplisment for the sake of some jingoist bragging is beyond me.
But its good in a way, since it gives people a clue about your
overall credibility.
Mike Cullinan
mgcu...@connect.net
Trinity
it wasn't Mitchell, because he strikes me as smarter than the silliness
that you debunked below.
For the record, American "English" is much different than anything
spoken in Europe. The famous quote about the English and Americans
being two peoples seperated by a common tongue is as true as it is
humorous.
Further, though Pascal and other Euros certainly contributed to the
developement of the computer, only the uniformed would claim that the
modern computer is a European invention. America developed computers,
Japan refined them, and now the rest of the world buys them. As much
as I love the French, nobody on the planet pirates as much American
tech as they do. I work for a software firm, and we don't even bother
doing localized French versions. The pirate trade is too huge for us
to compete with.
As for the Internet... Given that the entire net was originally
designed using American tax dollars, claiming that it's a
"European-built network" is so laughable that one wonders how anyone
could post something like that with a straight face. It reminds me of
the stereotypical 60's Russian mentality, claiming that everything from
the telephone to airplanes were invented in Russia.
Being proud of one's country is a wonderful thing, but lying about your
country doesn't exactly make anyone respect you, or your country. They
merely assume that your country has so little to recommend it that you
have to steal American accomplishments to claim as your own.
In article <s490r7r...@news.supernews.com>, Executioner
Mitchell Holman
}In article <33360A99BB0B05A3.6CDE005C...@lp.airnews.net>,
} ta2...@airmail.net (Mitchell Holman) wrote:
}>In article <38421269....@news.ot.centuryinter.net>,
}> psychic...@profiler.com wrote:
}>
}>}>
}>}> Do we *really* to perpetuate these tirades of
}>}> regional chauvenism? Europe is better than the
}>}> US in some ways;
}>}
}>}You bet. They've managed to cut soap consumption by almost eighty
}>}percent in most households, thereby allowing soap manufacturers to
}>}avoid costly retooling and second or third shifts which ultimately
}>}saves energy and reduces pollution.
}>}
}>
}> (the only one he knows, no doubt)
}
}Most Americans do study a foreign language in school even though they probably
}never become fluent.
}
If a person who speaks three languages is trilingual,
and a person who speaks two languages is bilingual, what
do you call someone who only speaks one language?
Why, an American, of course.
}>using a European
}> invention,
}
}The first computer was built at the University of Pennsylvania during WWII.
}It was designed to help American troops calculate howitzer shell trajectories
}more accurately so that we could save the Europeans from themselves.
Charles Babbage of England invented the first computer
in 1822.
Trinity
<st_george99@NO_SPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
(In response to Desmond's latest missive)
> < snip inadequate understanding of democratic process, curious allegations
> of interplanetary travel and habitation, and (quite astonishingly, not to
> mention worryingly), still FURTHER references to sado-masochistic sexual
> practices>
I haven't laughed this hard in months! Okay, that's it: Mark has
converted me. I'm now an abolitionist. =)
Johannes Kepler
Mitchell Holman wrote in message ...
[snip]
>
> Charles Babbage of England invented the first computer in 1822.
>
>
Babbage's 'Analytical Engine' was a purely mechanical device and bears no
resemblance to an electronic computer.
Nevertheless, it is generally accepted that the first electronic computing
machine was 'Colossus,' developed by Alan Turing (a true genius, and one of
the outstanding intellects of the 20th century) and his colleagues at
Bletchley Park, England. However, Colossus was not a programmable computer;
rather, it was 'hard-wired' to perform just one function -- the cracking of
the Enigma codes during WW2.
ENIAC (Electronic Numerical Integrator and Computer), developed at the
University of Pennsylvania in 1946, is generally credited with being the
first programmable computer, but still falls far short of anything that we
would recognize today.
To the USA goes the credit for the inventions of the transistor, integrated
circuit, and microprocessor. The Internet, too, was developed mainly in the
USA.
The World Wide Web was invented by Tim Berners-Lee, a graduate of Oxford
University, England, while working at CERN, in Geneva, Switzerland.
JK
Trinity
<A08B30ED4AAACF23.605240DD...@lp.airnews.net>,
Mitchell Holman <ta2...@aimail.net> wrote:
> If a person who speaks three languages is trilingual,
> and a person who speaks two languages is bilingual, what
> do you call someone who only speaks one language?
>
> Why, an American, of course.
"If Europeans had anything important to say, they'd say it in a real
language"
-Trevanian, Shibumi
I technically speak four languages, which isn't exactly a huge
accomplishment when you consider that most of the "Romantic" languages
are quite similar. The first time I heard French, I assumed it was a
Spaniard with a speaking disorder. ;) Euros like to make a big deal
out of understanding multiple languages, but let's be honest here: To
do international business in today's world, you simply HAVE to know
English. There's a huge incentive for Europeans to learn English, but
almost zero incentive for Americans to learn French, German, Spanish,
etc.
> Charles Babbage of England invented the first computer
> in 1822.
Were I to indulge in a bit of joking nationalism, I'd say something
pithy like "Fine, England had a computer for over a hundred years until
an American came along and did something useful with the idea." =)
But that would be unfair. As the blessed Albert E once said: "The work
of any scientist is so dependant upon the work of others that it is
impossible to attribute credit for any one person". The concepts and
ideas that lead to nearly every modern innovation has it's roots in the
earlier work of brilliant men. The Wright brothers couldn't of
succeeded without the work done by earlier geniuses such as da Vinci.
But would you really say that the airplane is a European invention?
Well, I'm backing out of the thread, because it's taking on an "us vs
them" atmosphere that I'm utterly uncomfortable with. Europe has a
marvelous history of science and art. Taking shots at them is like
insulting my own family. I even like the French, which can get you
killed in some parts of Spain. =)
Johannes Kepler
[snip]
>But that would be unfair. As the blessed Albert E once said: "The work
>of any scientist is so dependant upon the work of others that it is
>impossible to attribute credit for any one person". The concepts and
>ideas that lead to nearly every modern innovation has it's roots in the
>earlier work of brilliant men.
[snip]
Sir Issac Newton said, "If I have seen further, it is by standing on the
shoulders of Giants."
Europe does indeed have a wonderful history, has produced some of the finest
minds (Descartes, Pascal, Newton, Liebnitz, Poincare, Galileo, Brahe,
Copernicus, Kepler, Einstein, Turing...the list is endless), and has
contributed greatly to science, the arts, and technology. However, the
intellectual 'center-of-gravity' has been moving inexorably westward since
the days of Columbus, and some Europeans just can't seem to deal with that
reality, preferring to live in the past. That is not to say that Europe
does not continue to contribute (it does); rather, that Europe is no longer
the intellectual center of the world.
As for the "us-and-them" nature of this thread: Let's not forget how it
began!
JK
Johannes Kepler
>
>[snip]
>
>> Desmond, please don't count you codons before they're mapped. A parallel
>> effort called the Human Genome Sequencing Project is being conducted by
>> CELERA Genomics Rockville, MD. May the best technology win!
>
>Read the article, Terry: the Europeans have already won. :-)
There is a news item on the BBC's web-site that tells an altogether
different story about chromosome 22....
"The chromosome 22 sequence is principally the work of the UK Sanger Centre,
Keio University in Japan, and US laboratories at the University of Oklahoma
in Norman, and Washington University in St Louis, Missouri."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_545000/545008.stm
Well, well, well! Let's hope that this finally puts an end to this silly
little thread.
JK
Mobutu Sese Seko
opr...@yahoo.com wrote on 12/1/1999 3:51 PM:
>
> Schade!! Warum konnen wir Englisch nicht sprechen? Es ist eine viel
> besser Sprache uber alles!!
>
> Patrick
Dieses Haus ist eine Flohkiste! Seit wann lässt man Dich frei rumlaufen?
Widerlicher Lump!
translation:
I dislike German.
Mobutu Sese-Seko
Mobutu Sese Seko
wrote on 12/1/1999 3:27 PM:
Let's now apply this discussion to the death penalty: What percentage of the
great European minds (Descartes, Pascal, Newton, Liebnitz, Poincare,
Galileo, Brahe, Copernicus, Kepler, Einstein, Turing, etc.) do you think
supported the death penalty? A few of them (like Einstein) I know for sure
were ardent opponents, and I wouldn't be surprised if the rest opposed it as
well.
Mobutu Sese-Seko
Mobutu Sese Seko
dead_p...@hotmail.com wrote on 12/1/1999 1:53 PM:
> In article <821oka$nln$1...@lure.pipex.net>, St George
> <st_george99@NO_SPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> (In response to Desmond's latest missive)
>> < snip inadequate understanding of democratic process, curious allegations
>> of interplanetary travel and habitation, and (quite astonishingly, not to
>> mention worryingly), still FURTHER references to sado-masochistic sexual
>> practices>
>
> I haven't laughed this hard in months! Okay, that's it: Mark has
> converted me. I'm now an abolitionist. =)
At least this ng is accomplishing something... ;-)
Mobutu Sese-Seko
Mathias Bismo
has been divided into several of empires. The EU is only one of these
attempts. I can list the Roman Empire, Bysants, Ottoman Empire, empire
of Charlemange, Russia, The Soviet Union etc.
Desmond Coughlan wrote:
>
> Executioner <Execu...@Huntsville.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > >Seriously, Europe is not a physical entity, but a cultural and economic
> > >one.
>
> > Europe is a continent. Any country on this continent is European.
>
> Wrong again, I'm afraid. If I drive east, I leave Europe upon crossing
> the German border into Poland.
>
> --
> des...@coughlan.net
> http://www.coughlan.net/desmond/
--
Mathias
"Saken er biff, saken er karbonade, saken er ertesuppe"
St George
Johannes Kepler <spam...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8246n1$a71$1...@thoth.cts.com...
> Desmond Coughlan wrote in message ...
> >Terry C. Shannon <sha...@world.std.com> wrote:
> >
> >[snip]
> >
> >> Desmond, please don't count you codons before they're mapped. A
parallel
> >> effort called the Human Genome Sequencing Project is being conducted by
> >> CELERA Genomics Rockville, MD. May the best technology win!
> >
> >Read the article, Terry: the Europeans have already won. :-)
>
>
>
> There is a news item on the BBC's web-site that tells an altogether
> different story about chromosome 22....
>
> "The chromosome 22 sequence is principally the work of the UK Sanger
Centre,
> Keio University in Japan, and US laboratories at the University of
Oklahoma
> in Norman, and Washington University in St Louis, Missouri."
>
Right.
Despite my own, somewhat jingoistic contribution to this thread, let us
remember that completing this project was little more than glorified
number-crunching. I suspect the Brits 'won' simply because we had more or
better bean counters than the other guys...
Johannes Kepler
>in article 82409g$2lu$1...@thoth.cts.com, Johannes Kepler at
spam...@yahoo.com
>wrote on 12/1/1999 3:27 PM:
>
>Let's now apply this discussion to the death penalty: What percentage of
the
>great European minds (Descartes, Pascal, Newton, Liebnitz, Poincare,
>Galileo, Brahe, Copernicus, Kepler, Einstein, Turing, etc.) do you think
>supported the death penalty? A few of them (like Einstein) I know for sure
>were ardent opponents, and I wouldn't be surprised if the rest opposed it
as
>well.
>
Einstein was pro-DP, for at least part of his life. He said that he didn't
have a problem with the human race executing troublesome individuals. (I
have to agree with him on this; however, humans are prone to error, not to
mention pure malice, so there exists the very real possibility that an
innocent person could be executed, and therefore I think the DP should be
ended. Latterly, this was Einstein's reasoning, too.)
Most of the rest of those Great Minds lived in a very different Europe, when
death was, so to speak, a way of life, and religion played a much bigger
rôle than it does today. The notion of abolishing the death penalty would,
I suspect, have been as absurd to them as the notion of abolishing
imprisonment or fines would be to us.
Hey, does anyone have Stephen Hawking's e-mail address? Maybe we could ask
him for his input! Abraham Pais would be another smart guy to ask.
JK
Johannes Kepler
St George wrote in message <824981$47u$1...@lure.pipex.net>...
[snip]
>Despite my own, somewhat jingoistic contribution to this thread, let us
>remember that completing this project was little more than glorified
>number-crunching. I suspect the Brits 'won' simply because we had more or
>better bean counters than the other guys...
Maybe someone strapped a turbo-charger to the side of Babbage's Analytical
Engine... :-)
Avital Pilpel
> Europe does indeed have a wonderful history, has produced some of the finest
> minds (Descartes, Pascal, Newton, Liebnitz, Poincare, Galileo, Brahe,
> Copernicus, Kepler, Einstein, Turing...the list is endless), and has
> contributed greatly to science, the arts, and technology. However, the
> intellectual 'center-of-gravity' has been moving inexorably westward since
> the days of Columbus, and some Europeans just can't seem to deal with that
> reality, preferring to live in the past.
Well, that's not QUITE accurate. Until the 1900's, Europe was the
undoubted center of the world as far as science, civilization, etc. were
concerned, with the US being less important. What made the change is two
world wars - especially the second world war.
To a very large degree, it was one man - Adolf Hitler - who
single-handedly destroyed the old order in Europe, totally exhausted
Britian, and (contrary to his intentions) mobilized the U.S. and made it
ready to pick up the pieces when the war ended.
On Hitler, one may say in this regard what was originally said about some
Roman big shot when a foreginer asked why such an important man
had no statues to commemorate his achievements in Rome: "If you want to
see his memorial, look around."
(oops. I mentioned Hitler. Godwin's law invoked, thread over, nothing more
to see here folks, let's move on...)
Avital Pilpel
Natsam
Johannes Kepler wrote:
> Mobutu Sese Seko wrote in message ...
> >in article 82409g$2lu$1...@thoth.cts.com, Johannes Kepler at
> spam...@yahoo.com
> >wrote on 12/1/1999 3:27 PM:
> [snip]
> >
> >Let's now apply this discussion to the death penalty: What percentage of
> the
> >great European minds (Descartes, Pascal, Newton, Liebnitz, Poincare,
> >Galileo, Brahe, Copernicus, Kepler, Einstein, Turing, etc.) do you think
> >supported the death penalty? A few of them (like Einstein) I know for sure
> >were ardent opponents, and I wouldn't be surprised if the rest opposed it
> as
> >well.
> >
>
> Einstein was pro-DP, for at least part of his life. He said that he didn't
> have a problem with the human race executing troublesome individuals. (I
> have to agree with him on this; however, humans are prone to error, not to
> mention pure malice, so there exists the very real possibility that an
> innocent person could be executed, and therefore I think the DP should be
> ended. Latterly, this was Einstein's reasoning, too.)
Far be it for me to criticize Einstein's reasoning, but
lethal error and "pure malice" which leads to dead
innocents also exists without the DP. Those concerned
about innocents dying should be calling for increased
use of the DP, considering there have been undeniable,
clearcut cases of innocents dying at the hands of murderers
who were *not* executed for a previous murder. There are
no clear-cut cases of innocents being executed in the modern
era.
Regards,
Ed
Johannes Kepler
Avital Pilpel wrote in message ...
>On Wed, 1 Dec 1999, Johannes Kepler wrote:
>
>> Europe does indeed have a wonderful history, has produced some of the
finest
>> contributed greatly to science, the arts, and technology. However, the
>> intellectual 'center-of-gravity' has been moving inexorably westward
since
>> the days of Columbus, and some Europeans just can't seem to deal with
that
>> reality, preferring to live in the past.
>
>Well, that's not QUITE accurate. Until the 1900's, Europe was the
>undoubted center of the world as far as science, civilization, etc. were
>concerned, with the US being less important. What made the change is two
>world wars - especially the second world war.
>
This is a very interesting point. I often wonder what the world would have
looked like had Hitler not returned alive from the Front (he was a soldier
in WW1). Without the German component to WW2, the USA's rise to prominence
in the world might never have happened, and Europe might still be run by
sundry monarchies (monarchies with real power, not just figureheads).
Einstein would have had no reason to flee to the USA, and would therefore
never have contributed to the development of the atomic bomb in this
country. Japan may then have been victorious in S.E. Asia and the Pacific,
maybe even in the Americas. S-h-u-d-d-e-r !!!
However, even without WW1 and WW2, I still believe that the intellectual
'center-of-gravity' would have shifted westward -- as it continues to do
today, in spite of the defeat of Nazism in Europe. I see tens of thousands
of high-technology workers lining-up to emigrate from Europe to the USA, yet
I am not aware that a whole lot of Americans want to go live in Europe. I'm
not passing judgement on their reasons for coming here, merely pointing-out
that they are.
By the way, I am not so jingoistic that I think the intellectual
'center-of-gravity' is in the USA. Rather, it's probably somewhere in the
mid-Atlantic.
JK
Executioner
>In article <s490r7r...@news.supernews.com>, Execu...@Huntsville.com
> (Executioner) wrote:
>}In article
> <33360A99BB0B05A3.6CDE005C...@lp.airnews.net>,
>} ta2...@airmail.net (Mitchell Holman) wrote:
>}>In article <38421269....@news.ot.centuryinter.net>,
>}> psychic...@profiler.com wrote:
>}>
>}>}>
>}>}> Do we *really* to perpetuate these tirades of
>}>}> regional chauvenism? Europe is better than the
>}>}> US in some ways;
>}>}
>}>}You bet. They've managed to cut soap consumption by almost eighty
>}>}percent in most households, thereby allowing soap manufacturers to
>}>}avoid costly retooling and second or third shifts which ultimately
>}>}saves energy and reduces pollution.
>}>}
>}>
>}> Here is Necro bashing Europe, in a European language
>}> (the only one he knows, no doubt)
>}
>}Most Americans do study a foreign language in school even though they probably
>
>}never become fluent.
>}
>
>}> invention,
>}
>}The first computer was built at the University of Pennsylvania during WWII.
>}It was designed to help American troops calculate howitzer shell trajectories
>}more accurately so that we could save the Europeans from themselves.
>
>
> in 1822.
It was not an electronic computer. The first electronic computer was invented
in the United States.
St George
Natsam <nats...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3845CCFB...@worldnet.att.net...
And how many of these 'innocents' would have been murdered if LWOP had been
effectively applied?
There are
> no clear-cut cases of innocents being executed in the modern
> era.
What's your definition of 'clear-cut'?
St George
>
> Avital Pilpel wrote in message ...
> >On Wed, 1 Dec 1999, Johannes Kepler wrote:
> >
> >> Europe does indeed have a wonderful history, has produced some of the
> finest
> >> contributed greatly to science, the arts, and technology. However, the
> >> intellectual 'center-of-gravity' has been moving inexorably westward
> since
> >> the days of Columbus, and some Europeans just can't seem to deal with
> that
> >> reality, preferring to live in the past.
> >
> >Well, that's not QUITE accurate. Until the 1900's, Europe was the
> >undoubted center of the world as far as science, civilization, etc. were
> >concerned, with the US being less important. What made the change is two
> >world wars - especially the second world war.
> >
>
> This is a very interesting point. I often wonder what the world would
have
> looked like had Hitler not returned alive from the Front (he was a soldier
> in WW1). Without the German component to WW2, the USA's rise to
prominence
> in the world might never have happened, and Europe might still be run by
> sundry monarchies (monarchies with real power, not just figureheads).
I don't think many Euro monarchies had real power as late as WWII...
Desmond Coughlan
[snip]
> On a recent trip to Scotland, I was listening to the radio in the car. The
> station was offering a trip to the USA for the first caller that could
> answer some trivia question. Someone called with the correct answer, won
> the prize, and was then asked by the radio presenter, "Have you ever been to
> America before?" To which she answered, "No, but I've been to South
> America." "Really?" asked the presenter, "which part?" And she said,
> "Mexico." (The presenter didn't correct her.)
>
> The Scottish education system seems to place little emphasis on basic
> geography.
Was the caller Scottish ..?
--
Desmond Coughlan |Restez Zen ... UNIX peut le faire
des...@coughlan.net
http://www.coughlan.net/desmond/
Desmond Coughlan
> > < snip inadequate understanding of democratic process, curious allegations
> > of interplanetary travel and habitation, and (quite astonishingly, not to
> > mention worryingly), still FURTHER references to sado-masochistic sexual
> > practices>
> I haven't laughed this hard in months! Okay, that's it: Mark has
> converted me. I'm now an abolitionist. =)
Now perhaps Mark could convert you into something remotely resembling
a sentient lifeform, and you might cotton on that none of us gives a fuck
whether you're retentionist or not.
Desmond Coughlan
[snip]
> >using a European
> > invention,
> The first computer was built at the University of Pennsylvania during WWII.
Bzzt !!
The first computer was invented by a Briton (all right, Mark: an Englishman)
called Charles Babbgge..
Like it or not, the computer is a British invention.
[snip]
Rev. Don Kool
Little Mitchie Holman wrote:
> Execu...@Huntsville.com (Executioner) wrote:
> } ta2...@airmail.net (Mitchie Holman) wrote:
> }> psychic...@profiler.com wrote:
> }>}> Do we *really* to perpetuate these tirades of
> }>}> regional chauvenism? Europe is better than the
> }>}> US in some ways;
> }>}
> }>}You bet. They've managed to cut soap consumption by almost eighty
> }>}percent in most households, thereby allowing soap manufacturers to
> }>}avoid costly retooling and second or third shifts which ultimately
> }>}saves energy and reduces pollution.
> }>}
> }>
> }> Here is Necro bashing Europe, in a European language
> }> (the only one he knows, no doubt)
> }
> }Most Americans do study a foreign language in school even though they probably
> }never become fluent.
> }
>
> If a person who speaks three languages is trilingual,
> and a person who speaks two languages is bilingual, what
> do you call someone who only speaks one language?
>
> Why, an American, of course.
>
> }>using a European
> }> invention,
> }
> }The first computer was built at the University of Pennsylvania during WWII.
> }It was designed to help American troops calculate howitzer shell trajectories
> }more accurately so that we could save the Europeans from themselves.
>
> Charles Babbage of England invented the first computer
> in 1822.
Actually the truth is that no, he did not, Mitchie.
Happy to have cleared things up for you,
Don
--
********************** You a bounty hunter?
* Rev. Don McDonald * Man's gotta earn a living.
* Baltimore, MD * Dying ain't much of a living, boy.
********************** "Outlaw Josey Wales"
http://members.home.net/oldno7
opr...@yahoo.com
Mobutu Sese Seko <mob...@mobutu.za> wrote:
> in article 8241nv$ucg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com, opr...@yahoo.com at
> opr...@yahoo.com wrote on 12/1/1999 3:51 PM:
>
> >
viel
> > besser Sprache uber alles!!
> >
> > Patrick
>
> Dieses Haus ist eine Flohkiste! Seit wann lässt man Dich frei
rumlaufen?
> Widerlicher Lump!
>
> translation:
> I dislike German.
>
> Mobutu Sese-Seko
>
>
Translation: I dislike French.
Johannes Kepler
Desmond Coughlan wrote in message ...
>
>[snip]
>
>> On a recent trip to Scotland, I was listening to the radio in the car.
The
>> station was offering a trip to the USA for the first caller that could
>> answer some trivia question. Someone called with the correct answer, won
>> the prize, and was then asked by the radio presenter, "Have you ever been
to
>> America before?" To which she answered, "No, but I've been to South
>> America." "Really?" asked the presenter, "which part?" And she said,
>> "Mexico." (The presenter didn't correct her.)
>>
>> The Scottish education system seems to place little emphasis on basic
>> geography.
>
>Was the caller Scottish ..?
>
From the accent, I would have to say yes.
Johannes Kepler
Desmond Coughlan wrote in message ...
>
>[snip]
>
>> >using a European
>> > invention,
>
>> The first computer was built at the University of Pennsylvania during
WWII.
>
>
>The first computer was invented by a Briton (all right, Mark: an
Englishman)
>called Charles Babbgge..
>
>Like it or not, the computer is a British invention.
>
>[snip]
>
As I have pointed out before, Babbage's 'Analytical Engine' was a mechanical
device, bearing no resemblance whatsoever to what we would today call a
computer. Besides, Babbage never actually built his 'Analytical Engine.'
And, as I have also pointed out, the first single-purpose, electronic
computing machine was developed at Bletchley Park, England, by Alan Turing
et al, during WW2. However, the first general-purpose, programmable,
electronic computer was ENIAC, developed at the University of Pennsylvania
in 1946.
More importantly, perhaps, was the contribution of George Boole (another
great intellect), born in Lincoln, England. His book, 'The Mathematical
Analysis of Logic,' published in 1847, is considered one of the foundation
stones of computing. Without Boole, and 'Boolean Algebra,' we might never
have developed digital computers at all.
JK
Trinity
Coughlan <des...@lievre.coughlan.net> wrote:
> Trinity <dead_p...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > < snip inadequate understanding of democratic process, curious allegations
> > > of interplanetary travel and habitation, and (quite astonishingly, not to
> > > mention worryingly), still FURTHER references to sado-masochistic sexual
> > > practices>
>
> > I haven't laughed this hard in months! Okay, that's it: Mark has
> > converted me. I'm now an abolitionist. =)
>
> Now perhaps Mark could convert you into something remotely resembling
> a sentient lifeform, and you might cotton on that none of us gives a fuck
> whether you're retentionist or not.
Ohhhh, Mr. "Thoughtful, logical, civil debate" strikes again. Don't
you ever get tired of looking like an idiot, Desmond?
Johannes Kepler
Hooked-on-quack's wrote in message
<3849fcfb....@news.ot.centuryinter.net>...
[snip]
>
>>It was not an electronic computer. The first electronic computer was
invented
>>in the United States.
>
The tube, or thermionic valve, was invented by John Ambrose Fleming,
Professor of Electrical Engineering at University College, London.
This thread could go on forever. I suggest we learn to recognize that the
USA and Europe have each contributed greatly to science and technology. Let
it go.
JK
Mobutu Sese Seko
opr...@yahoo.com wrote on 12/2/1999 5:59 PM:
I guess we'll settle on English then. =)
Mobutu Sese-Seko
Mobutu Sese Seko
deadmkennedy's...@honest.org wrote on 12/2/1999 7:01 PM:
> On Wed, 01 Dec 1999 17:25:52 -0500, Mobutu Sese Seko
> <mob...@mobutu.za> wrote:
>
> snip......
>>
>> Let's now apply this discussion to the death penalty: What percentage of the
>> great European minds (Descartes, Pascal, Newton, Liebnitz, Poincare,
>> Galileo, Brahe, Copernicus, Kepler, Einstein, Turing, etc.) do you think
>> supported the death penalty? A few of them (like Einstein) I know for sure
>> were ardent opponents, and I wouldn't be surprised if the rest opposed it as
>> well.
>
>
>
> Let's talk about great Modern European minds. That won't take nearly
> as long.
You're right. Modern Europeans are united almost 100% against the death
penalty.
Mobutu Sese-Seko
Natsam
St George wrote:
> Natsam <nats...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:3845CCFB...@worldnet.att.net...
> >
> >
> > Johannes Kepler wrote:
> >
> > > Mobutu Sese Seko wrote in message ...
> > > >in article 82409g$2lu$1...@thoth.cts.com, Johannes Kepler at
> > > spam...@yahoo.com
> > > >wrote on 12/1/1999 3:27 PM:
> > > [snip]
> > > >
> > > >Let's now apply this discussion to the death penalty: What percentage
> of
> > > the
> > > >great European minds (Descartes, Pascal, Newton, Liebnitz, Poincare,
> > > >Galileo, Brahe, Copernicus, Kepler, Einstein, Turing, etc.) do you
> think
> > > >supported the death penalty? A few of them (like Einstein) I know for
> sure
> > > >were ardent opponents, and I wouldn't be surprised if the rest opposed
> it
> > > as
> > > >well.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Einstein was pro-DP, for at least part of his life. He said that he
> didn't
> > > have a problem with the human race executing troublesome individuals.
> (I
> > > have to agree with him on this; however, humans are prone to error, not
> to
> > > mention pure malice, so there exists the very real possibility that an
> > > innocent person could be executed, and therefore I think the DP should
> be
> > > ended. Latterly, this was Einstein's reasoning, too.)
> >
> > Far be it for me to criticize Einstein's reasoning, but
> > lethal error and "pure malice" which leads to dead
> > innocents also exists without the DP. Those concerned
> > about innocents dying should be calling for increased
> > use of the DP, considering there have been undeniable,
> > clearcut cases of innocents dying at the hands of murderers
> > who were *not* executed for a previous murder.
>
> And how many of these 'innocents' would have been murdered if LWOP had been
> effectively applied?
>
As my great-grandmother used to say in response to
such hypotheticals, "If cow shit were butter we'd
eat it."
Would you gloss over mistaken executions by saying they
wouldn't have happened "if the DP had been effectively applied?"
If not, why the double standard?
>
> There are
> > no clear-cut cases of innocents being executed in the modern
> > era.
>
> What's your definition of 'clear-cut'?
A legal pardon.
And a couple questions:
1) How many innocents do you think
have been executed in the post-Furman era?
One? Two? Three?
2) How many innocents sentenced to LWOP do you think die in
prison? None??? Is it not possible?
3) How many innocent people are murdered every year by repeat
murderers? Just looking at the current death row
population, nine percent have previous murder
convictions. That's a lot of dead innocents
at the hands of repeat murderers.
So I could use the same tactic as you, and probably more
effectively, since the numbers are in my favor.
Since it has been undoubtedly proven that imprisonment
is flawed and results in dead innocents, we need the death
penalty. In other words, "how many of these 'innocents' would have
been murdered if" the DP "had been effectively applied?"
Regards,
Ed
Hooked-on-quack's
(Executioner) wrote:
>In article <A08B30ED4AAACF23.605240DD...@lp.airnews.net>, ta2...@aimail.net (Mitchell Holman) wrote:
>>In article <s490r7r...@news.supernews.com>, Execu...@Huntsville.com
>> (Executioner) wrote:
>>}In article
>> <33360A99BB0B05A3.6CDE005C...@lp.airnews.net>,
>>} ta2...@airmail.net (Mitchell Holman) wrote:
>>}>In article <38421269....@news.ot.centuryinter.net>,
>>}> psychic...@profiler.com wrote:
>>}>
>>}>}>
>>}>}> Do we *really* to perpetuate these tirades of
>>}>}> regional chauvenism? Europe is better than the
>>}>}> US in some ways;
>>}>}
>>}>}You bet. They've managed to cut soap consumption by almost eighty
>>}>}percent in most households, thereby allowing soap manufacturers to
>>}>}avoid costly retooling and second or third shifts which ultimately
>>}>}saves energy and reduces pollution.
>>}>}
>>}>
>>}> Here is Necro bashing Europe, in a European language
>>}> (the only one he knows, no doubt)
You are in error.
>>}
>>}Most Americans do study a foreign language in school even though they probably
>>
>>}never become fluent.
Two languages, thank you. I can bowdlerize in two of them.
>>}
>>
>>}>using a European
>>}> invention,
>>}
>>}The first computer was built at the University of Pennsylvania during WWII.
>>}It was designed to help American troops calculate howitzer shell trajectories
>>}more accurately so that we could save the Europeans from themselves.
>>
>>
>> Charles Babbage of England invented the first computer
>> in 1822.
>
Hooked-on-quack's
<spam...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Mobutu Sese Seko wrote in message ...
>>in article 82409g$2lu$1...@thoth.cts.com, Johannes Kepler at
>spam...@yahoo.com
>>wrote on 12/1/1999 3:27 PM:
>[snip]
>>
>>Let's now apply this discussion to the death penalty: What percentage of
>the
>>great European minds (Descartes, Pascal, Newton, Liebnitz, Poincare,
>>Galileo, Brahe, Copernicus, Kepler, Einstein, Turing, etc.) do you think
>>supported the death penalty? A few of them (like Einstein) I know for sure
>>were ardent opponents, and I wouldn't be surprised if the rest opposed it
>as
>>well.
>>
>
>Einstein was pro-DP, for at least part of his life. He said that he didn't
>have a problem with the human race executing troublesome individuals. (I
>have to agree with him on this; however, humans are prone to error, not to
>mention pure malice, so there exists the very real possibility that an
>innocent person could be executed, and therefore I think the DP should be
>ended. Latterly, this was Einstein's reasoning, too.)
He also spent the last dozen years of his life working on a unified
theory of relativity. So far, that hasn't happened. Nils Bohr told him
the idea was preposterous. But I guess Danes don't get as much press
if they don't write the president of the United States.
Hooked-on-quack's
<mob...@mobutu.za> wrote:
snip......
>
>Let's now apply this discussion to the death penalty: What percentage of the
>great European minds (Descartes, Pascal, Newton, Liebnitz, Poincare,
>Galileo, Brahe, Copernicus, Kepler, Einstein, Turing, etc.) do you think
>supported the death penalty? A few of them (like Einstein) I know for sure
>were ardent opponents, and I wouldn't be surprised if the rest opposed it as
>well.
Let's talk about great Modern European minds. That won't take nearly
as long.
>
>Mobutu Sese-Seko
>
Hooked-on-quack's
wrote:
>In article <s490r7r...@news.supernews.com>, Execu...@Huntsville.com (Executioner) wrote:
>}In article <33360A99BB0B05A3.6CDE005C...@lp.airnews.net>,
>} ta2...@airmail.net (Mitchell Holman) wrote:
>}>In article <38421269....@news.ot.centuryinter.net>,
>}> psychic...@profiler.com wrote:
>}>
>}>}>
>}>}> Do we *really* to perpetuate these tirades of
>}>}> regional chauvenism? Europe is better than the
>}>}> US in some ways;
>}>}
>}>}You bet. They've managed to cut soap consumption by almost eighty
>}>}percent in most households, thereby allowing soap manufacturers to
>}>}avoid costly retooling and second or third shifts which ultimately
>}>}saves energy and reduces pollution.
>}>}
>}>
>}> Here is Necro bashing Europe, in a European language
>}> (the only one he knows, no doubt)
>}
>}Most Americans do study a foreign language in school even though they probably
>}never become fluent.
>}
>
> If a person who speaks three languages is trilingual,
> and a person who speaks two languages is bilingual, what
> do you call someone who only speaks one language?
>
> Why, an American, of course.
Yeah. Right. In a country where cities are adopting spanish as an
official language for legal documents.
Funnier still, because the first city to do it is in Texas. Don't read
much, do you?
William Robert
wrote:
Desi, can you provide some input here??
William Robert
>
>>
>>Mobutu Sese-Seko
>>
Rev. Don Kool
Desi Coughlan <des...@cybercable.fr> wrote:
> Johannes Kepler <spam...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> [snip]
>
> > >> Europe is a continent. Any country on this continent is European.
>
> > >Wrong again, I'm afraid. If I drive east, I leave Europe upon crossing
> > >the German border into Poland.
>
> > Why do you persist with this nonsense? If you drive east from Berlin,
> > Germany, you will leave the European Union as you enter Poland; however, you
> > are still on the continent of Europe, which does not end until reaching the
> > Ural Mountains.
>
> When Russia appears in this list:
>
> http://www.europa.eu.int/en/eu/states.htm
>
> it will be part of Europe.
>
> Not before.
Wrong again my fatherless young friend. A more complete list of
european countries can be found at;
http://stars.coe.fr/index_e.htm
Of course it includes Russia. As the world knows, Desi is as
ignorant of geography as he is of Justice and europe executed 17
people as recently as 1997.
Hope this helps,
Rev. Don Kool
Mobutu Sese Seko wrote:
> Rev. Don Kool at old...@home.com wrote:
> > Desi Coughlan <des...@cybercable.fr> wrote:
> >> Executioner <Execu...@Huntsville.com> wrote:
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >>>> Seriously, Europe is not a physical entity, but a cultural and economic
> >>>> one.
> >>
> >>> Europe is a continent. Any country on this continent is European.
> >>
> >> Wrong again, I'm afraid. If I drive east, I leave Europe upon crossing
> >> the German border into Poland.
> >
> > ROTFLOLASTD!! And young fatherless Desi wonders why he is the
> > acknowledged laughingstock of alt.activism.death-penalty. Poland is
> > still part of europe, my uneducated young friend. Europe still
> > retains the just Death Penalty and executed 17 people as recently as
> > 1997.
> If that were true, then why do you try so hard (and so pathetically) to
> insult Europe?
I don't, my young friend. I merely point out the facts.
Rev. Don Kool
> > > < snip inadequate understanding of democratic process, curious allegations
> > > of interplanetary travel and habitation, and (quite astonishingly, not to
> > > mention worryingly), still FURTHER references to sado-masochistic sexual
> > > practices>
>
> > I haven't laughed this hard in months! Okay, that's it: Mark has
> > converted me. I'm now an abolitionist. =)
>
> Now perhaps Mark could convert you into something remotely resembling
> a sentient lifeform, and you might cotton on that none of us gives a fuck
> whether you're retentionist or not.
One would think that the sting of looking the fool would be gone
for young Desi by now. It seems that being shown up still "smarts"
him a bit. LOL!! Oh well, as long as our clueless and smelly
european friends continue to show such blind allegiance to proven
murderers, they can expect to be ridiculed and shunned as the
murderer lovers they are. Perhaps if they could get their own
houses in order; maybe quell the latest violent french miner strike,
recognize the basic human rights of the citizens of Northern Ireland
or simply refrain from "ethnic cleansing" for at least a few years
-- perhaps then the rest of the world would have a little more
impetus to listen to their incessant whining.
Executioner
>Executioner <Execu...@Huntsville.com> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> > invention,
>
>> The first computer was built at the University of Pennsylvania during WWII.
>
>
>The first computer was invented by a Briton (all right, Mark: an Englishman)
>called Charles Babbgge..
>
>Like it or not, the computer is a British invention.
Babbage's invention was not an electronic computer. It was used to calculate
logrithms to aid in producing navigation tables. The first electronic
computer was many times faster than Babbage's mechanical computer.
opr...@yahoo.com
> opr...@yahoo.com wrote on 12/2/1999 5:59 PM:
>
> > In article <B46B09E3.4CE4%mob...@mobutu.za>,
> >> opr...@yahoo.com wrote on 12/1/1999 3:51 PM:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Schade!! Warum konnen wir Englisch nicht sprechen? Es ist eine
> > viel
> >>> besser Sprache uber alles!!
> >>>
> >>> Patrick
> >>
> >> Dieses Haus ist eine Flohkiste! Seit wann lässt man Dich frei
> > rumlaufen?
> >> Widerlicher Lump!
> >>
> >> translation:
> >> I dislike German.
> >>
> >> Mobutu Sese-Seko
> >>
> >>
> > Saugen Sie mein Schwanz!!
> >
> > Translation: I dislike French.
> >
> >
> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.
>
> I guess we'll settle on English then. =)
>
> Mobutu Sese-Seko
>
OR, you can argue with me in English, and insult me in
German/French/Chinese/Swahili/Pig Latin. Have to admire your
creativity, anyway. "Widerlicher Lump?" Cute. ;-)
Regards,
Patrick