[DS9] Lynch's Spoiler Review: "Extreme Measures"
Dena M. Renti Cruz
says...
>
>WARNING: The following article contains DS9 spoilers; I
>recommend that you avoid them without resorting to "Extreme
>Measures."
><snip>
>After that, there's one of the typical "trip inside someone's mind"
>twists: O'Brien and Bashir think they're out and all is lost, but
>Bashir eventually realizes that they're still inside Sloan's mind after
>all, and Sloan has simply been using their memories against them. Been
>there, done that: TNG's "Frame of Mind" did it very well, VOY's
>"Projections" used almost exactly the same scene a few years later,
>TNG's "Eye of the Beholder" had a similar technique, "First Contact"
>did it in the first ten minutes of the film ... and so on.
I saw that coming a mile away since they just did that trick in a recent
X-Files episode (the one where Mulder & Scully are "high" on poisoned
shrooms). & that whole Bashir/O'Brien "but I like you more" bit had me
ROFL. Man, that scene was a slasher's dream, made even better with the
last scene. ;-)
*Dena*
Timothy W. Lynch
recommend that you avoid them without resorting to "Extreme
Measures."
======
Written by: Bradley Thompson & David Weddle
Directed by: Steve Posey
Brief summary: Bashir and O'Brien try to lure a Section 31 operative
to the station in order to find a cure for Odo.
======
The opening of DS9's sixth season had the Cardassian/Dominion
alliance occupying the station and Starfleet waging a desperately
defensive war. A great deal of that arc worked very well, but about
halfway into it we got a show entitled "Sons and Daughters" which
felt jarringly out of place. The authors? Bradley Thompson and
David Weddle, who up until that point had written material which rose
well above its premise, like "The Assignment" and "Business as
Usual."
Now, with only a few hours of DS9 left before the series closes its
doors forever, we're seeing history repeat itself. While the ideas
behind "Extreme Measures" fit into this arc better than "Sons and
Daughters" shoehorned itself into the Occupation Arc, if anything it's
got even more questionable logic and plain old Stupid-Villain Plotting
undercutting it. Other shows in this final set of episodes have had
questionable moments, but this is the first show which came off as
almost entirely disappointing.
Unlike its recent predecessors, "Extreme Measures" limits itself to just
one story: Bashir's search for a cure to Odo's disease. When we last
left our intrepid doctor, he and O'Brien had planned to send a false
message to Starfleet Medical claiming that he'd found a cure for Odo's
condition. They hoped that it would lure someone from Section 31 to
the station whom they could then capture and force the cure out of.
Now, to the show's credit, Bashir acknowledges openly that this is a
very long shot. I'm not all that concerned about them coming up with
the plan: if they're desperate, they're desperate, and frankly this is the
sort of elaborate scheme I could see the secret-crazy Bashir working to
implement. I even understand why Section 31 might decide they have
to investigate even knowing the long odds: when you're as paranoid
an organization as they seem to be, all leads like that need to be
followed up. What I absolutely do *not* understand is why Section
31 would do what they did this episode, namely send Sloan along to
investigate.
Problem one: Why send someone affiliated closely with 31 at all?
Hire an anonymous thug (Nausicaans, maybe) to kill Bashir and
completely trash his lab. Effective and untraceable.
Problem two: Okay, you've decided you need to send an actual
operative of 31. Why do anything about the cure at all? Send
someone into the infirmary late at night, and have them kill *Odo*.
No muss, no fuss -- and no more motivation to find a cure.
Problem three: Okay, fine, you need to deal with the cure itself. Why
send someone who knows anything about the cure? Bashir's
reasoning (that they'd need to know what they were looking for)
seems pretty specious to me: as Sloan pointed out, you could just
destroy the lab. Even if not, you send an expert in covert operations
in, kidnap Bashir off the station, and work him until he breaks. How
tough could it be?
Problem four: Okay, fine -- for whatever reason, you need to send
someone who knows about the cure. Why send someone Bashir
would recognize? Maybe other operatives would be just as
recognizable in the black leather, but they've got to have a change of
outfit...
Problem five: So Sloan has to go. Fine, whatever. Why on *Earth*
would you send him to Bashir's quarters where Bashir might have
something planned? Sloan's already proven he can abduct Bashir
easily; do it and be done.
My overall conclusion here is that Bashir won not because he and
O'Brien were particularly smart, but because Section 31 is populated
entirely by tactical morons. No wonder the Federation's had so many
problems with this war. (Another possibility, of course, is that
Sloan's superiors in 31 don't particularly like him and wanted him
captured -- but if that's the case, the cure should have been a fake.)
I'm not overly fond of stupid-villain plots, especially when the villain
has been proven to be pretty adept at manipulating people in the past.
It'd be like Garak accidentally leaving a business card at the site of an
assassination: it just doesn't work.
In any event, Bashir manages to capture Sloan with surprising ease,
and then plans to use Romulan mind probes (the same ones used on
him while on Romulus, in a bit of irony that doesn't go unnoticed) in
order to extract the cure. Sloan then does something sensible, and
triggers a mental implant, killing himself.
Naturally, however, we still need a cure -- so after about three scenes
hip-deep in technobabble (specifically, a "multitronic engrammatic
interpreter"), Bashir and O'Brien are headed into Sloan's mind
themselves, where what's left of his memories will be presented in
some form vaguely comprehensible to the pair of them. They hope
they can find the cure and get out before Sloan undergoes complete
brain-death, which would take them right along with him.
What follows is one of the "surreal trip through a character's mind"
we've had on more than one occasion in modern Trek, though the
only one I can think of on DS9 is season 3's "Distant Voices." Alas,
this particular trek through a mental landscape falls pretty seriously
flat: the scenes aren't symbolic enough to tell the viewer much, and
they aren't surreal enough to be fun from a sit-back-and-enjoy-the-ride
standpoint.
What they are, in many places, is somewhat annoyingly *padded*.
It's possible that it just feels padded to me next to the last several
shows, all of which were very densely plotted, but I don't think that's
it. Consider that we get several vignettes of Bashir's thingamajig
being built followed by a detailed explanation, when the explanation
would have done just fine. Consider that we get a truly bizarre scene
in a turbolift where they take a good minute to decide whether to let go
of a railing or not. Consider that Bashir and O'Brien find a Good
Sloan, who makes a detailed speech to his family and friends about
how he's neglected them over the years and is then killed by the Bad
Sloan, which resets our heroes back to square one. So far as I can
tell, none of those scenes was particularly necessary -- while Sloan's
an interesting character, hearing an internalized version of him mope
about the choices he's made isn't doing the viewer any favors.
Partway through the story, we also get another odd turn of events.
Bashir and O'Brien have been "shot" inside Sloan's mind, and are
sitting on the floor gasping in pain. Convinced that death is imminent,
O'Brien grouses how Keiko will feel about it, and before long Bashir
starts talking about how O'Brien loves Keiko, but "likes" Bashir
better than he does Keiko. Pardon me? The conversation was
awkward enough to begin with; given the circumstances, it's just
utterly weird. I don't know if this was supposed to get at how "male
bonding" is different from romance, or whether it's supposed to hint
at intimate feelings between Miles and Julian -- but either way, all it
did was grind an already-turgid show further to a halt.
After that, there's one of the typical "trip inside someone's mind"
twists: O'Brien and Bashir think they're out and all is lost, but Bashir
eventually realizes that they're still inside Sloan's mind after all, and
Sloan has simply been using their memories against them. Been
there, done that: TNG's "Frame of Mind" did it very well, VOY's
"Projections" used almost exactly the same scene a few years later,
TNG's "Eye of the Beholder" had a similar technique, "First Contact"
did it in the first ten minutes of the film ... and so on. At this point,
it's almost expected, and as such came as little surprise.
The last confrontation between Bashir and Sloan works out much
better, and manages to salvage some of the story. Bashir and O'Brien
have made it to the "headquarters" of Section 31 in Sloan's head, and
are looking around for the tell-tale PADD with a cure for Odo on it.
O'Brien finds it, but Bashir is enthralled by all the other secrets
surrounding him. He finds details of a one-time mole in former
President Jaresh-Inyo's Cabinet, details of current operations on
Q'onos ... and enough information to let him take Section 31 down
for good, or at least to give it a good run. Sloan encourages him to
linger and use it, and Bashir is tempted -- but O'Brien brings him up
short, pointing out that Sloan is trying to keep Bashir there until they
both die. Odo has to be their current priority. With that conviction
renewed, Bashir and O'Brien safely exit Sloan's mind just seconds
before it's too late.
A few elements of the scene were a little obvious, but this is one of the
few scenes that really does click on both a plot and a character level.
Bashir *is* someone obsessed by secrecy, and Sloan knows it. As
Bashir points out later, Sloan's last-ditch effort to save his secrets
used the perfect lure, and it was only O'Brien's presence that saved
the day. That much I like, and I wish the rest of the episode could
have paved the way for it better.
Other thoughts:
-- I should mention that the opening scene with Odo and Bashir, and
especially Odo and Kira, were marvelous. Although the tragic
farewell is now likely for nothing (with Odo cured and all), both
Auberjonois and Visitor got absolutely everything they could out of
that scene, and it's quite affecting.
-- Now that Sisko also knows what Bashir and O'Brien were up to,
the continued avoidance of mentioning Admiral Ross has moved from
annoying to downright offensive. Bashir *knows* the man worked
with Sloan, at least temporarily: by now, we should either have had
an acknowledgment that Sisko knows about it or a realization by
Bashir that he needs to keep Sisko's information away from Ross.
Enough already.
-- I did like Bashir's methodical ruthlessness in phasering Sloan once
the trap was set.
-- If you want a good non-Trek example of a "you think you're out
but you're not" scene, find or rent a copy of "An American Werewolf
in London." I won't go into more details than that.
-- A recent MSTing. Sloan's wife: "That was beautiful, Luther."
<they kiss> Lisa: "Who's that?" Me: "Oh, his daughter."
-- Miles: "I think we've stopped." Boy, ain't *that* the truth...
That pretty much covers things. After several straight weeks of
episodes ranging from good to great, I suppose we were due for a
clunker, but I was hoping for much, much better than I got here. If
this is the grand purpose Section 31 was set up for, I'd just as soon
have skipped the whole thing, despite some of William Sadler's nice
work. Hopefully this is the last such clunker in DS9 history.
Wrapping up:
Writing: Extremely questionable logic, and I don't know what the
"character bonding" scene was supposed to do. The only
really good bits were Kira/Odo at the start and Bashir's final
temptation.
Directing: Not nearly surreal enough to fit the premise, I'm afraid.
Acting: Auberjonois and Visitor were the highlights; unfortunately,
they were gone five minutes into the episode.
OVERALL: 4. Not impressive.
NEXT WEEK:
The Cardassian rebellion takes a nasty turn.
Tim Lynch (Harvard-Westlake School, Science Dept.)
tly...@alumni.caltech.edu <*>
"You came here because you thought I'd discovered a cure, and you
wanted to destroy it. But first, you'd have to *find* it in my lab --
and in order to do that, you'd have to know exactly what you were
looking for."
"You call that reasoning?"
-- Bashir and a dead-on Sloan
--
Copyright 1999, Timothy W. Lynch. All rights reserved, but feel free to ask...
This article is explicitly prohibited from being used in any off-net
compilation without due attribution and *express written consent of the
author*. Walnut Creek and other CD-ROM distributors, take note.
cividan
Timothy W. Lynch <tly...@alumnae.caltech.edu> a écrit dans le message :
7iam9s$q...@gap.cco.caltech.edu...
My point...if section 31 wanted the founders dead WHY ON EARTH do they have
a cure for the disease...when you create something that bad you don't work
on how to cure it !!!
<Snip>
--
cividan...@hotmail.com
ICQ# 27594899
PNG- (+P)
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Chris Blaise
wrote:
>> My point...if section 31 wanted the founders dead WHY ON EARTH do they have
>> a cure for the disease...when you create something that bad you don't work
>> on how to cure it !!!
>
>Maybe they wanted to control the Founders? i.e. "Do what we say, or we
>stop the cure."
Except the cure (appears) to take effect instanteously and
without the need for continued treatment.
Chris
Désirée Davis
cividan wrote:
> Timothy W. Lynch <tly...@alumnae.caltech.edu> a écrit dans le message :
> 7iam9s$q...@gap.cco.caltech.edu...
> > WARNING: The following article contains DS9 spoilers; I
> > recommend that you avoid them without resorting to "Extreme
> > Measures."
> >
> > In brief: Ill-thought-out and clunky as all hell. A major stumble.
> <spot-on analysis snipped>
> My point...if section 31 wanted the founders dead WHY ON EARTH do they have
> a cure for the disease...when you create something that bad you don't work
> on how to cure it !!!
>
Actually, it is good tactics when developing biological/viral agents of war to
have a cure as well, in case the disease ever turns on it's creators or if some
other reason develops to stop it's spread.
Désirée- it was a dumb episode anyway
B. Mayo
>
> Problem four: Okay, fine -- for whatever reason, you need to send
> someone who knows about the cure. Why send someone Bashir
> would recognize? Maybe other operatives would be just as
> recognizable in the black leather, but they've got to have a change of
> outfit...
I'm sure that most don't agree, but I enjoyed the episode. I'll admit
that's probably primarily because of the fact that Bashir is my favorite
character, and I tend to like all the episodes that feature him. Sure
there were massive holes in the plot and the whole "journey through the
mind" was kind of weak, but we really needed one last Bashir and O'Brien
story. The evolution of their friendship has been a major part of the
series, and I felt that this episode kind of brought that storyline to a
close.
But, anyway, the main point I wanted to respond to is the fairly obvious
question "why would section 31 send Sloan"? I guess that I'm the only one
with this impression, but it's been my opinion that the guy is either
basically acting alone or part of a very small group. He tries to act
like he's some big fish in this covert group, but he's ALWAYS the one
showing up. I think he (or his small group) are good at getting other
people to assist them through trickery (as he did with Bashir). In short,
I'm assuming the reason why Sloan comes is because he's egotistical and he
greatly exaggerates the scope of Section 31 or his place in it.
I realize that there are probably some things that I missed/forgot that
would contradict this, but I didn't have a major problem with him showing
up. Some of the other plot holes made me wince, but (call me crazy) I
still enjoyed the episode.
Bill Mayo
Victoria Meredith
Timothy W. Lynch wrote in message <7iam9s$q...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>...
>WARNING: The following article contains DS9 spoilers; I
>recommend that you avoid them without resorting to "Extreme
>Measures."
>
>What they are, in many places, is somewhat annoyingly *padded*.
>It's possible that it just feels padded to me next to the last several
>shows, all of which were very densely plotted, but I don't think that's
>it. Consider that we get several vignettes of Bashir's thingamajig
>being built followed by a detailed explanation, when the explanation
>would have done just fine. Consider that we get a truly bizarre scene
>in a turbolift where they take a good minute to decide whether to let go
>of a railing or not. Consider that Bashir and O'Brien find a Good
>Sloan, who makes a detailed speech to his family and friends about
>how he's neglected them over the years and is then killed by the Bad
>Sloan, which resets our heroes back to square one. So far as I can
>tell, none of those scenes was particularly necessary -- while Sloan's
>an interesting character, hearing an internalized version of him mope
>about the choices he's made isn't doing the viewer any favors.
Yes, yes, yes!!! Among the many frustrations of this episode is that
there is so much wasted time that could be used on much more interesting
and important material. What's going on with Dukat? How's the
Cardassian Resistance going? What about Ben and Kassidy?
I started out watching this episode with optimism until I saw that neither
Penny Johnson, Casey Biggs or Marc Alaimo were named in
the credits, then my heart sank since their lack of screen time meant that
none of their plot lines were going to be explored. Extreme Measure was
mildly enjoyable but the last few episodes have spoiled me too much to make
mildly enjoyable acceptable!
>-- I should mention that the opening scene with Odo and Bashir, and
>especially Odo and Kira, were marvelous. Although the tragic
>farewell is now likely for nothing (with Odo cured and all), both
>Auberjonois and Visitor got absolutely everything they could out of
>that scene, and it's quite affecting.
Agreed. The best part of the episode and so beautifully in line with
the characters of Kira and Odo.
Victoria Meredith
Thorley J Winston
> Problem one: Why send someone affiliated closely with 31 at all?
> Hire an anonymous thug (Nausicaans, maybe) to kill Bashir and
> completely trash his lab. Effective and untraceable.
And then you have a loose end in the form of the Nausican thug. And
when he disappears or is found dead, you have an investigation into who
it was the killed the Nausican thug and what was their motive and
connection to Bashir's death and the trashing of his laboratory. Too
many loose ends.
> Problem two: Okay, you've decided you need to send an actual
> operative of 31. Why do anything about the cure at all? Send
> someone into the infirmary late at night, and have them kill *Odo*.
> No muss, no fuss -- and no more motivation to find a cure.
At this point, most people don't know that Section 31 was behind the
disease. A premature death of the patient might raise suspicions.
> Problem three: Okay, fine, you need to deal with the cure itself.
> Why
> send someone who knows anything about the cure? Bashir's
> reasoning (that they'd need to know what they were looking for)
> seems pretty specious to me: as Sloan pointed out, you could just
> destroy the lab. Even if not, you send an expert in covert operations
> in, kidnap Bashir off the station, and work him until he breaks. How
> tough could it be?
Here's where I probably part company with most of the viewers. I think
that Sloan WANTED Bashir to get a hold of the cure for some reason. The
last time we saw Sloan he:
1) Faked his own death.
2) Manipulated Bashir into doing what he wanted while Bashir thought he
was fighting Section 31.
Sound familiar?
I don't think an organization lasts for two or three hundred years by
being headed by tactical morons. Let alone, convince people that it
doesn't really exist.
I think the "Sloan" we saw was some sort of clone (Section 31 has access
to advanced technology, who's to say they didn't solve the problem of
DNA deterioration) or body double trained to fake memories at the point
of death. Sloan was willing to sacrifice a Romulan ally and Odo to
protect the UFP, why wouldn't he sacrifice a clone or willing operative?
> Problem four: Okay, fine -- for whatever reason, you need to send
> someone who knows about the cure. Why send someone Bashir
> would recognize? Maybe other operatives would be just as
> recognizable in the black leather, but they've got to have a change of
> outfit...
Why? They're the only ones in the series with any fashion sense.
> Problem five: So Sloan has to go. Fine, whatever. Why on *Earth*
> would you send him to Bashir's quarters where Bashir might have
> something planned? Sloan's already proven he can abduct Bashir
> easily; do it and be done.
See answer to problem three.
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
Shawn Hill
: Partway through the story, we also get another odd turn of events.
: Bashir and O'Brien have been "shot" inside Sloan's mind, and are
: sitting on the floor gasping in pain. Convinced that death is imminent,
: O'Brien grouses how Keiko will feel about it, and before long Bashir
: starts talking about how O'Brien loves Keiko, but "likes" Bashir
: better than he does Keiko. Pardon me? The conversation was
: awkward enough to begin with; given the circumstances, it's just
: utterly weird. I don't know if this was supposed to get at how "male
: bonding" is different from romance, or whether it's supposed to hint
: at intimate feelings between Miles and Julian -- but either way, all it
: did was grind an already-turgid show further to a halt.
The weirdness of it was part of the appeal. They were in a dream sequence,
remember, doing and saying things that would never take place in the real
world. Apparently the only place they can express their "brotherly love"
(or whatever you want to call it) for each other is 'in dreams.' I found
the scene kind of touching, an interesting way of dealing with male
bonding, and of providing a little closure for two characters who formed a
natural team (opposites attracting and all) on the show.
Plus it made them seem a little gay, which is always fun.
: OVERALL: 4. Not impressive.
I find this rating excessively low. Your plot disagreements are of course
logical and apt; but the show was really about character more than plot,
which has always been DS9's singular strength.
Shawn
* . * . * . * .
Q: "Am I still your woman?"
A: "You're the captain's woman...until he says you're not."
. * . * . *sh...@fas.harvard.edu
Shawn Hill
: I saw that coming a mile away since they just did that trick in a recent
: X-Files episode (the one where Mulder & Scully are "high" on poisoned
: shrooms). & that whole Bashir/O'Brien "but I like you more" bit had me
: ROFL. Man, that scene was a slasher's dream, made even better with the
: last scene. ;-)
Exactly, and thank you. You're either into slash or you're not!
Shawn
Shawn Hill
: But, anyway, the main point I wanted to respond to is the fairly obvious
: question "why would section 31 send Sloan"? I guess that I'm the only one
: with this impression, but it's been my opinion that the guy is either
: basically acting alone or part of a very small group. He tries to act
: like he's some big fish in this covert group, but he's ALWAYS the one
: showing up. I think he (or his small group) are good at getting other
: people to assist them through trickery (as he did with Bashir). In short,
: I'm assuming the reason why Sloan comes is because he's egotistical and he
: greatly exaggerates the scope of Section 31 or his place in it.
I've thought this for a long time. Maybe Section 31 *IS* Sloan. And no-one
else.
Shawn
~~***~~*~*~*~*~*~~~~*~~*~*~~~**~*~*~*~*~*~**~**~*
"I know what ya done
I saw ya in my crystal
I saw ya making love
I'm gonna get my pistol" --lene lovich
sh...@fas.harvard.edu*~*~**~~*~*~**~*~*~**~*~**~*
Terry Rubenstein
cividan wrote:
> My point...if section 31 wanted the founders dead WHY ON EARTH do they have
> a cure for the disease...when you create something that bad you don't work
> on how to cure it !!!
That isn't entirely true. No one would release a genetically engineered weapon
without a cure - otherwise the virus would just spread and get you too. Now in
this case you wouldn't think there was a chance for infection of solids, but if
you thought there was any chance that it could someone mutate and get solids
too - well, you'd definitely want a cure before you released it.
Joe
>How's the
>Cardassian Resistance going?
"WAR?? Don't mention the war! I did once but I think I got away with
it."
- Basil Fawlty
Joe
Terry Rubenstein
"B. Mayo" wrote:
> In article <7iam9s$q...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, tly...@alumni.caltech.edu wrote:
> >
> > Problem four: Okay, fine -- for whatever reason, you need to send
> > someone who knows about the cure. Why send someone Bashir
> > would recognize? Maybe other operatives would be just as
> > recognizable in the black leather, but they've got to have a change of
> > outfit...
>
> I'm sure that most don't agree, but I enjoyed the episode. I'll admit
> that's probably primarily because of the fact that Bashir is my favorite
> character, and I tend to like all the episodes that feature him. Sure
> there were massive holes in the plot and the whole "journey through the
> mind" was kind of weak, but we really needed one last Bashir and O'Brien
> story. The evolution of their friendship has been a major part of the
> series, and I felt that this episode kind of brought that storyline to a
> close.
>
> But, anyway, the main point I wanted to respond to is the fairly obvious
> question "why would section 31 send Sloan"? I guess that I'm the only one
> with this impression, but it's been my opinion that the guy is either
> basically acting alone or part of a very small group. He tries to act
> like he's some big fish in this covert group, but he's ALWAYS the one
> showing up. I think he (or his small group) are good at getting other
> people to assist them through trickery (as he did with Bashir). In short,
> I'm assuming the reason why Sloan comes is because he's egotistical and he
> greatly exaggerates the scope of Section 31 or his place in it.
>
I don't totally buy the Sec 31 thing but it might make sense to send the same
agent. While he can't be covert, he didn't try to do this as a covert mission -
he came right out and said hi to Bashir. If this was the mission plan, it makes
sense to send someone who is already compromised rather than send a new face.
Debra Smith
> I've thought this for a long time. Maybe Section 31 *IS* Sloan. And no-one
> else.
>
> Shawn
> ~~***~~*~*~*~*~*~~~~*~~*~*~~~**~*~*~*~*~*~**~**~*
Plausable. A renagade SF security operative perhaps. Of course, this means
that the information Slaoan gave Julian was a about S31 was a lie.Why not,
why would we expect him to tell the truth.
Barry Wong
> Here's where I probably part company with most of the viewers. I think
> that Sloan WANTED Bashir to get a hold of the cure for some reason. The
> last time we saw Sloan he:
>
> 1) Faked his own death.
> 2) Manipulated Bashir into doing what he wanted while Bashir thought he
> was fighting Section 31.
>
> Sound familiar?
>
> I don't think an organization lasts for two or three hundred years by
> being headed by tactical morons. Let alone, convince people that it
> doesn't really exist.
>
> I think the "Sloan" we saw was some sort of clone (Section 31 has access
> to advanced technology, who's to say they didn't solve the problem of
> DNA deterioration) or body double trained to fake memories at the point
> of death. Sloan was willing to sacrifice a Romulan ally and Odo to
> protect the UFP, why wouldn't he sacrifice a clone or willing operative?
I don't know if I go for the "clone Sloan" idea, but I do think it would
be a lot better story if they find out in this last couple of episodes
that Sloan's "cure" was a fake -- either only temporary, or something
that permanently disables the changelings, perhaps forcing them into a
single solid form.
Now THAT would be a great twist. Odo would be "stuck" in humanoid form,
so he and Kira could stay together and he'd be available for the movies.
The founders would be "stuck" in whatever form they had assumed, and the
humanoid ones would still be looking for a way to make themselves back
into shapeshifters. And Sloan would have the last laugh on Bashir, whose
overconfidence was annoying in that episode.
ShaunNavis
>halfway into it we got a show entitled "Sons and Daughters" which
>felt jarringly out of place. The authors? Bradley Thompson and
>David Weddle,
Thanks for pointing that out, Tim. These guys just don't have a clue, do they?
Shaun
Moi
Burkleo) wrote:
>In article <8k623.5075$Dm3....@weber.videotron.net>, "cividan"
><cividan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>My point...if section 31 wanted the founders dead WHY ON EARTH do they have
>>a cure for the disease...when you create something that bad you don't work
>>on how to cure it !!!
To develop a virus that specific would involve exrensive knowledge of
the founders and their physiology. By the time you had produced a
virus that specific, the cure for it would be in your lap also. When
you are creating a genocidal virus, the hard part is getting it to
work, not curing it, there are clues and approaches every step of the
way for stopping it. To those on the otherside of the equation, to
whom the virus is a big unknown, then the cure becomes the hard part.
It is the difference between a programmer building a "backdoor" into a
program, and the hacker trying to hack in......the hard part for the
programmer is the program, not the back door...the hard part for the
hacker is the back door, not the program.
Rich
****************************************************************************
"One breath of a great whale contains more than the sum of human knowledge."
Penelope Smith
****************************************************************************
a. carter
>
> > But, anyway, the main point I wanted to respond to is the fairly obvious
> > question "why would section 31 send Sloan"? I guess that I'm the only one
> > with this impression, but it's been my opinion that the guy is either
> > basically acting alone or part of a very small group. He tries to act
> > like he's some big fish in this covert group, but he's ALWAYS the one
> > showing up. I think he (or his small group) are good at getting other
> > people to assist them through trickery (as he did with Bashir). In short,
> > I'm assuming the reason why Sloan comes is because he's egotistical and he
> > greatly exaggerates the scope of Section 31 or his place in it.
Here's another train of thought ...
maybe the scope and size of Section 31 has slowly degenerated over the centuries to
include only a few hundred agents. That would explain why Sloan was always showing
up to do the dirty work himself. There simply were not enough agents to effectively
cover all the Federation territory.
BTW, I liked the part when Sloan apologies to his family and close friends for being
such a jerk all those years ...
--
a. carter - aca...@monmouth.com
"The more I know, the less I understand" - Heart of the Matter by Don Henley 1989
David B.
> >A great deal of that arc worked very well, but about
> >halfway into it we got a show entitled "Sons and Daughters" which
> >felt jarringly out of place. The authors? Bradley Thompson and
> >David Weddle,
>
> Thanks for pointing that out, Tim. These guys just don't have a clue, do they?
Though the producers let them get away with it...
Iris L. Chang
: There were other Section 31 operatives in "Inquisition" at the end...
But were they real, or were they Memorex? I believe Sloan and Bashir were
standing on a holodeck...
Mahalo,
Ryan Chang
David B.
The other operatives were there after the holodeck program was ended.
Timothy W. Lynch
>In rec.arts.startrek.current Timothy W. Lynch <tly...@alumnae.caltech.edu> wrote:
>: Partway through the story, we also get another odd turn of events.
>: Bashir and O'Brien have been "shot" inside Sloan's mind, and are
>: sitting on the floor gasping in pain. Convinced that death is imminent,
>: O'Brien grouses how Keiko will feel about it, and before long Bashir
>: starts talking about how O'Brien loves Keiko, but "likes" Bashir
>: better than he does Keiko. Pardon me? The conversation was
>: awkward enough to begin with; given the circumstances, it's just
>: utterly weird. I don't know if this was supposed to get at how "male
>: bonding" is different from romance, or whether it's supposed to hint
>: at intimate feelings between Miles and Julian -- but either way, all it
>: did was grind an already-turgid show further to a halt.
>The weirdness of it was part of the appeal. They were in a dream sequence,
>remember, doing and saying things that would never take place in the real
>world.
They were in a dreamlike *environment*, not dreaming themselves.
Their conscious minds were firmly on track (at least, as much as
anyone's higher brain functions were this time around), so I'm not
buying this.
>: OVERALL: 4. Not impressive.
>I find this rating excessively low. Your plot disagreements are of course
>logical and apt; but the show was really about character more than plot,
>which has always been DS9's singular strength.
Okay, so the show was about character. Is Good Sloan's speech
supposed to impress me as a marvel of characterization? The
Bashir/O'Brien "bonding" scene discussed above? Please, let me know
what I'm missing here.
So far as I can tell, the only character moment which worked (apart
from Odo/Kira at the beginning) was Sloan's appeal to Bashir's
obsessive side. That's what got it a rating as high as a 4.
Tim Lynch
Iris L. Chang
: Iris L. Chang wrote:
: > But were they real, or were they Memorex? I believe Sloan and Bashir were
: > standing on a holodeck...
: >
:
: The other operatives were there after the holodeck program was ended.
Which is basically meaningless, as we've seen nested holodeck programs
before (e.g., TNG, "Future Imperfect").
Mahalo,
Ryan Chang
Shawn Hill
: They were in a dreamlike *environment*, not dreaming themselves.
: Their conscious minds were firmly on track (at least, as much as
: anyone's higher brain functions were this time around), so I'm not
: buying this.
Our interpretation is different here. I thought J and M were having a hard
time staying focused and thinking clearly from the first (disorientated)
elevator scene. Else why the fear of relaeasing the handles? And then when
they were "shot", they were struggling to convince themselves it wasn't real
(and when they had decided on a new course of action, it wasn't). The
disjointed discussion about their friendship was part of their continuing
confusion as their consciousnesses struggled to cope with an alien and
changing environment. So, the whole ep (save for the scenes of the bodies on
the tables, and the other regulars) was an altered state.
:>: OVERALL: 4. Not impressive.
:>I find this rating excessively low. Your plot disagreements are of course
:>logical and apt; but the show was really about character more than plot,
:>which has always been DS9's singular strength.
: Okay, so the show was about character. Is Good Sloan's speech
: supposed to impress me as a marvel of characterization? The
: Bashir/O'Brien "bonding" scene discussed above? Please, let me know
: what I'm missing here.
Well, it was at least an attempt to round out a cartoon villain. And, yeah,
I liked the bonding scene a lot. Men do have an awkward time expressing
love, even the brotherly kind.
: So far as I can tell, the only character moment which worked (apart
: from Odo/Kira at the beginning) was Sloan's appeal to Bashir's
: obsessive side. That's what got it a rating as high as a 4.
I definitely was not as pleased with it as the other recent eps, but I liked
it much better than the Worf/son episoded from the last big arc you compare
it to.
Shawn
Timothy W. Lynch
>On 27 May 1999 13:19:13 GMT, shaun...@aol.com (ShaunNavis) wrote:
>>>A great deal of that arc worked very well, but about
>>>halfway into it we got a show entitled "Sons and Daughters" which
>>>felt jarringly out of place. The authors? Bradley Thompson and
>>>David Weddle,
>>Thanks for pointing that out, Tim. These guys just don't have a clue, do they?
>I suppose that's why 'Inquisition,' 'Business as Usual,' 'Treachery,
>Faith and The Great River' and 'The Assignment' were such stonkers, eh?
>They've had their share of bad episodes, but they've written some real
>gems as well.
Which, I would like to point out, I *did* say in my original review.
By no means do I think W&T are a huge drag on the writing staff -- if
anyone is, it's the parties responsible for 90% of the Ferengi crud,
i.e. Mssrs. Behr & Beimler.
Tim Lynch