!Think for yourself
Marc De Turck
Scientology is the way to total freedom.
It is Bona Fide
Please do have a look at http://www.myhomepage.org/marcdeturck
Sincerely.
Marc
Chris Leithiser
You shouldn't be posting here. You know you're supposed to have the
babysitter software installed that prevents you from posting to a.r.s.,
or hearing the dreaded names X_nu or X_mu or whatever it was. You're
obviously not ready to hear about OT III and the space cooties and such.
You'd better go report yourself to ethics and tell them all about what
you've done. But you can save yourself some trouble, since you can
honestly say we didn't use the name "Xenu" in front of you.
Oh, damn.
Sorry, Marc. I guess I slipped up. Well, being a natural OT and all, I
don't have the $cientology training they do, but at least I didn't have
to spend $300,000 to get it.
By the way, I'd have given you all this information directly, via
e-mail, but the "contact me" button on your page doesn't seem to work
right. Instead of bringing up your e-mail, it seems to open up a form
to send info directly to the church. Since I didn't want them to know
how badly you'd screwed up by contacting known SP's, I didn't send it
there. You might want to get that fixed before you publicise your page
any more.
Hartley Patterson
> > Please do have a look at http://www.myhomepage.org/marcdeturck
> Marc, Marc, Marc. What _are_ we going to do with you?
>
> You shouldn't be posting here. You know you're supposed to have the
> babysitter software installed that prevents you from posting to a.r.s.,
> or hearing the dreaded names X_nu or X_mu or whatever it was. You're
> obviously not ready to hear about OT III and the space cooties and such.
Few of the CoS robot posters to ARS actually read it. It is possible
that the babysitter software doesn't block posting, just reading -
anyone kmow?
If Marc was there, we could ask him how thousands of identical Web Sites
provided by the Church of Scientology to its members which purport to be
'Personal' web pages equate with the CoS slogan 'Think for Yourself'?
We could ask him why the Church is so insecure that won't allow him to
read criticism of the Church's secular activities.
But I don't think he is there...
--
Hartley Patterson
http://village.vossnet.co.uk/h/hpttrsn/
An old universe and a medieval spreadsheet
Featuring JRR Tolkien, Charles Fort and L Ron Hubbard
Cristino
>
> Tired of studpid attacks and slander and lies about Scientology.
> Scientology is the way to total freedom.
> It is Bona Fide
>
> Marc
Howdy, Marc! I see you have a cookie-cutter scientology page. That's
nice for a beginner Why have it looking like all the other scieno
pages? Go on and modify it a bit! Add your own personal touch! You
know, change the background color, add more links, change the font...
That sort of stuff. Otherwise it does not show that you 'think for
yourself', but it rather says 'I'm part of a herd that blindly follow
orders'... :-(
Just a question, can you tell us which are the lies about scientology?
See Marc, Andreas Heldal-Lund who maintains http://www.xenu.net has a
lot of information on his page about scientology. Many times he's been
told he is just spreading lies but to date not a single scientologist
has told him which are the lies so he can update his page. Maybe you
will enlighten us...
Cristino, SP3
--
You are mocking up your reactive mind.
XENU and the BODY THETANS are THE REAL SOURCE of your problems.
http://www.xenu.net
Ron Newman
>
>Tired of studpid attacks and slander and lies about Scientology.
>Scientology is the way to total freedom.
>It is Bona Fide
>Please do have a look at http://www.myhomepage.org/marcdeturck
After you do so, be sure to also look at
http://www.modemac.com/cos/
http://www.xenu.net/
--
Ron Newman rne...@thecia.net
http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/home.html
Oxford Systems
Seen any space planes capable of intergalactic flight that look exactly like
DC-3's except they have rocket motors instead of propellers.
Do you know of any clears that have total, 100% perfect recall of every
moment of their life? What was on the third line of the third paragraph of
the third chapter of Dianetics? Verbatim.
Lessee here....
Know any clears that get colds?
Ever seen a demonstration of the super human powers and intelligence of an
OT?
Know who Xenu was?
My advice to you buddy is to dig down deep and find out what you are a part
of and just what kind of charlatan LRH was. His bio is bogus. The big ranch
is bogus. His war record is bogus. He was a fraud and unfortunately you,
just like me when I was searching for answers, fell for it.
Get out before it is too late.
Another cookie cutter web site. Think for yourself indeed!
Alan
Marc De Turck wrote in message <7bh8u4$bt5$1...@news0.skynet.be>...
>Tired of studpid attacks and slander and lies about Scientology.
>Scientology is the way to total freedom.
>It is Bona Fide
>Please do have a look at http://www.myhomepage.org/marcdeturck
>
>Sincerely.
>
>Marc
>
>
Rondata
Cristino wrote:
>
> Marc De Turck wrote:
> >
> > Tired of studpid attacks and slander and lies about Scientology.
> > Scientology is the way to total freedom.
> > It is Bona Fide
> > Please do have a look at http://www.myhomepage.org/marcdeturck
> >
> > Sincerely.
> >
> > Marc
>
Happy Xenu
---------------
Hello, my name is De Turck Marc, and here is a little bit about myself:
My wife and I are very active in BELGIAN Social, and Business life. We
do help people and companies to make their IDEAS come true and we make sure
that FREEDOM of opinion is guaranteed in Belgium and in the world.
In doing this we use L. Ron Hubbard's methods of handling life,
organizations, business etc. Methods we found through the Church of
Scientology.
We majored at European Universities but found out that L. Ron Hubbard
was eons in advance of the actual academics.
Our group is named I.D.E.A.S. This stands for Intelligent Data
Evaluation and Application of Strategy.
You can always contact us, we always listen.
---------------
Thanks to Scientology, I feel like having the enthusiasm of a child and the
intelligence of a genius adult.
Scientology has completely changed my life for the best.
Without Scientology, my wife would probably be dead. Scientology saved
her life too.
---------------
--
Scientology cult in Sydney: http://www.angelfire.com/hi/xemu/xenu.html
Scientology cult worldwide: http://www.xenu.net
Marc De Turck
Thanks for your advice.
Is there someone who can give me a more workable system that makes people
more able, more ethical and more happy on this planet ?
I did not found one except Scientology. I'm Scientologist and Clear since
1996 and happy to be one, My wife is OT4 and very happy to be one.
I do observe that the majority of people who did receive Scientology
services are more happy, more able and do have succes in life.
But, If you did not find so for yourself, it is your best right to think so.
Why are those attacks necessary ? Why do you want to protect me from some
danger you think is there.
Let me see and observe for myself. Or do you have other intentions which
are not so noble as to inform someone ? In any way, the truth will remain
on the long term. It did allways. This is not specific to Scientology,
Sincerely.
Marc De Turck heeft geschreven in bericht <7bh8u4$bt5$1...@news0.skynet.be>...
Roland
How are your "body thetans" these days? You know - the ones you are
infested with after Xenu transported trillions of people to Earth
in DC-8 space-planes, 75 million years ago. The ones you have to
talk to telepathically to make them go away and so give you super-
powers. Ask your OT IV wife about it.
No, don't. She will report you to the "ethics" officer and divorce
you. She will use the half of the money that is yours to move up
the Bridge to Total Madness.
Ask your wife how her BODY THETANS are.
Roland
--
"I notice that we all believe that Venus has a methane atmosphere and
is unlivable. I almost got run down by a freight locomotive the other
day -- didn't look very uncivilized to me." - L. Ron Hubbard,
"Between Lives Implants" lecture, SHSBC #317. 23 July 1963.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Venusloc.ram
Rondata
>
> Dear fellow newsgroup mailers.
>
> Thanks for your advice.
>
> Is there someone who can give me a more workable system that makes people more able, more ethical and more happy on this planet ?
If there were one, would you try it out?
I like my system. You can try it out if you want.
Its called "having a mind of my own". Its great tech
and I use it daily. Best part is, its free. The BETTER
part is, I am truly free :) Free to think for myself.
Rhonda
<snip>
Flames not included.
Chris Leithiser
Marc De Turck wrote:
> Dear fellow newsgroup mailers.
>
> Thanks for your advice.
>
> Is there someone who can give me a more workable system that makes people
> more able, more ethical and more happy on this planet ?
Sure. It's called "Freezone Scientology." It is demonstrably better than your
system: It has no more content than regular $cientology, but it seems to have
less of the totalitarian, paranoid aspect of the mainstream faith. That may be
why it's being persecuted by the paranoid, totalitarian Co$.
Of course, you might try designing your own system, and not blindly following a
drug-addled science-fiction writer's fantasies. I hate to advocate skepticism,
asking for proof of outrageous claims, and thinking for yourself, but it works
for me. :)
> I did not found one except Scientology. I'm Scientologist and Clear since
> 1996 and happy to be one, My wife is OT4 and very happy to be one.
Good for her. I'm a natural OT. I came to the conclusion without any auditing
whatsoever that I am _not_ infested with body thetans. Saved a good $300,000US,
I did. Hubbard said there were natural Clears, so it stands to reason that
there must be natural OT's.
> I do observe that the majority of people who did receive Scientology
> services are more happy, more able and do have succes in life.
Talk to some of the people here who have been harassed, lied to and stolen from
by $cientology. It's true for them, so it must be true. And none of my
successes in life are due to L-Ron's fantasies.
> But, If you did not find so for yourself, it is your best right to think so.
Sure is. And my right to tell others. I would not seek to condemn you for your
fantasies; I seek only to keep your masters from imposing them on others.
> Why are those attacks necessary ? Why do you want to protect me from some
> danger you think is there.
Not you; I am frankly amazed that you actually returned to post here again.
We're trying to protect the "raw meat" from being swindled as you were.
Fortunately, fewer and fewer are falling for the scam every year. Praise Xenu.
> Let me see and observe for myself. Or do you have other intentions which
> are not so noble as to inform someone ? In any way, the truth will remain
> on the long term. It did allways. This is not specific to Scientology,
You're so right. Examples of this truth are on display 24/7 at:
"And the truth shall set you free," along with the other $cientologists.
Tilman Hausherr
wrote:
>I did not found one except Scientology. I'm Scientologist and Clear since
>1996 and happy to be one, My wife is OT4 and very happy to be one.
So your wife is possessed by space aliens and you're not?
Have you even discussed with her how this is possible?
No - because scientology does not even allow that. Scientology even
controls your free speech in your own home.
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4]
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Clearwater pictures: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/4497/clearwater/index.html
Find broken links on your web site: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html
Annoy scientology by buying books: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/bookstore.html
Ethan
problem is--the human body count for your "religion" is way too high
for me. I also don't appreciate it's vindictive attacks on
excommunicated members who are trying to recover from their mental
anguish this so called church has caused. How much did it cost for
you to become clear of those body thetans?
--
"The end of all knowledge should be virtuous action." --Phillip
Sydney
thom...@my-dejanews.com
This is not the creamy type fudge with marshmallow creme. Thanks.
Bob
E-mail: goo...@aol.com
Ron Newman
<ide...@skynet.be> wrote:
> Tired of studpid attacks and slander and lies about Scientology.
I can't find the word "studpid" in my dictionary. Can you tell me
what it means?
thom...@my-dejanews.com
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thom...@my-dejanews.com
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Podkayne-Xenu
> Tired of studpid attacks and slander and lies about Scientology.
> Scientology is the way to total freedom.
> It is Bona Fide
> Please do have a look at http://www.myhomepage.org/marcdeturck
Sweetie darling, do you realize that to old C programmers and Unix
hackers, and Xenu only knows what other sorts of computer people, your
header reads "(not) Think for yourself"???
--
"Dear Joe. I'm sorry but no go on coming out of isolation yet"
-- Sacred Co$ Scripture
Read more Heinlein
Podkayne-Xenu
rne...@thecia.net (Ron Newman) wrote:
> > Tired of studpid attacks and slander and lies about Scientology.
>
> I can't find the word "studpid" in my dictionary. Can you tell me
> what it means?
Maybe he's a friend of gertie, and meant "stud pig"
Podkayne-Xenu
> Well, keep in mind that most of the criticism you hear is aimed at the CofS,
> and not at Scientology! So don't get sucked up into defending Scientology when
> the criticism is aimed at the Church of Scientology.
>
...
>
> However, unless you want to get a shock, don't delve too deep into what the
> CofS has been doing in 'your' name. Things have gone on that you are
> forbidden to know. I don't mean things like there are confidential material
> posted, or copyright infringements, or 'SP's' galore, and such. I mean the
> actual doing of the CofS that Scientologist are not supposed to know about.
> As a Scientologist you are kept in the 'blind' for your 'own good'. You'd go
> PTS, and you are not trusted to judge for yourself. Go to your local org MAA
> or EO and tell them you were here and see.
Thom! This is a change from when you first got here - you *are* "thinking
for yourself" now. Good on you!
Podkayne-Xenu
<ide...@skynet.be> wrote:
> Why are those attacks necessary ? Why do you want to protect me from some
> danger you think is there.
Sorry. I really didn't think you'd come back. Generally people who post
like you did (which wasn't the least bit original, aside from spelling
mistakes and the rather amusing "not" sign in your subject) and also have
a cookie-cutter site, tend not to reply to any comments.
As for dangers - well, you haven't hit any OT levels. Guess what - all
the special OT powers don't exist (as Arnie Lerma said in Clearwater, if
there were any OTs, the picketers wouldn't be there). Some people freak
out - go PTS Type III - when they find out what's at OT and what isn't.
See www.lisamcpherson.org.
See www.xenu.net.
Investigate the claims *yourself*. Use independent sources - don't take
our word for it and don't take the Co$ word for it.
Podkayne-Xenu
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tcxgaq dkne Fzykpg hzzbdoi Zzkiqtk Y Pilw
hil...@viewgraphics.com
>Is there someone who can give me a more workable system that makes
>people more able, more ethical and more happy on this planet ?
Try:
#"You should be allowed to do whatever you want with your own person
#and property, as long as you don't physically harm the person or
#property of another." -- Peter McWilliams
>I did not found one except Scientology.
I have no problem believing that only scientology can work for *you*.
>But, If you did not find so for yourself, it is your
>best right to think so.
...till the "Church" of $cientology will "clear the planet."
>Why are those attacks necessary ?
Becuase the Co$ has tried to contorl a free net form.
It tried to rmgroup alt.religion.scientology using a bogus legal
claim, it raided and harassed people because it did not like their
criticism, it *spammed* the net, it sent private detective after
critics and posted personal information about critics
(real name, address, phone number).
If you really want to live in peace with me (fat chance...)
then you have to do just one thing:
stop pissing in my sand-box.
>Why do you want to protect me from some danger you think is there.
I've no intention to "protect" you. I'm not in the
business of saving people against their will.
>Let me see and observe for myself. Or do you have other intentions which
>are not so noble as to inform someone ? In any way, the truth will remain
>on the long term. It did allways. This is not specific to Scientology,
Speaking about truth, I still have a question that no $cientologist
has answered:
%"By actual clinical test, the actions of aspirin and other
%pain depressants are to:
%A. Inhibit the ability of the thetan to create mental image picture
%and also
%B. To impede the electrical conductivity of the nerve channels."
-- ("The Scientology Handbook", L. Ron Hubbard)
Can you please tell me when and where the "actual clinical test"
was done? Can you also supply enough details about the test so
it can be repeated?
Come on, show us how a $cientologist finds the "truth."
Hillel hil...@viewgraphics.com
"With reasonable men I will reason. With tradesmen I will negotiate.
But with tyrants I will neither reason nor negotiate." -- Thomas Paine
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Fredric L. Rice
wrote:
>Do you really think he will post back? :)
<smile> They're not allowed to even _read_ this forum so I would say
that getting a response is highly unlikely. And even if he could, the
response would merely be a personal attack.
Fredric L. Rice
wrote:
>Dear fellow newsgroup mailers.
>Thanks for your advice.
>Is there someone who can give me a more workable system that makes people
>more able, more ethical and more happy on this planet ?
Try science and reason. They've got proven track records.
Fredric L. Rice
wrote:
>Dear fellow newsgroup mailers.
>Thanks for your advice.
>Is there someone who can give me a more workable system that makes people
>more able, more ethical and more happy on this planet ?
Oh: and science and reason don't tie women up and starve them to
death, nor does it drown judge's dogs, cut break lines, make people
kill themselves, and go brainwashed and broke.
Learn what Scientology is about, is my suggestion. Then give reason
and science a try.
thom...@my-dejanews.com
"Marc De Turck" <ide...@skynet.be> wrote:
> Tired of studpid attacks and slander and lies about Scientology.
> Scientology is the way to total freedom.
Hello Marc.
Well, keep in mind that most of the criticism you hear is aimed at the CofS,
and not at Scientology! So don't get sucked up into defending Scientology when
the criticism is aimed at the Church of Scientology.
Those who speak ill of the subjects of Dianetics and Scientology are usually
unfamiliar with the subjects themselves, and only repeat what they have heard
elsewhere. A few are quite upset due to personal experiences. I suspect most
of them are true. Nonetheless, forget about those comments, pay them no heed.
You know what is true for you.
However, unless you want to get a shock, don't delve too deep into what the
CofS has been doing in 'your' name. Things have gone on that you are
forbidden to know. I don't mean things like there are confidential material
posted, or copyright infringements, or 'SP's' galore, and such. I mean the
actual doing of the CofS that Scientologist are not supposed to know about.
As a Scientologist you are kept in the 'blind' for your 'own good'. You'd go
PTS, and you are not trusted to judge for yourself. Go to your local org MAA
or EO and tell them you were here and see.
Unfortunately, things re: the CofS are not as they seem. I wish they were, but
they are not. There has been a significant change...
If you persist here, and if you start checking these things out, you'd better
inform your wife first, because you are in for a reality adjustment. You owe
it to your wife to let her know, because you WILL go into doubt about the
integrity of the CofS. Most of what you will see here is just rant. But, the
rant is based on certain activities, and that is what is of concern to all of
us. If you bypass the rant, and go dig for what prompts it all, you'll find
out what you don't want to know. It is quite unhappy.
Actually, it is not the CofS. It is a few arrogant members of the SO who run
things that are really causing all the problems. The vast majority of the
CofS's are not involved in what you will discover here. But, the brush does
paint wide...
I hope you do inform yourself of the activities of these few SO members. If
you and other Scientologists don't, you may lose your Church before you have
had a chance to get up the Bridge.
But, even then you could be okay. Everything is here on the Net. As a matter
of fact, you'll find some of the researchers gave gone much farther than LRH.
None of them bad mouth him, because they know the truth of what he really
did. They put his hat on, and are wearing it, and you'll be thankful they
did. It doesn't unmock what you are doing, or how far you can go with what
you are doing. It will take you farther, or, if due to reasons such as
finances, the reality of getting up the bridge is blocked, then here is the
other path up. It does work. Go to Alt.Clearing.Tech
Keep your TR's in, and good luck!
This may take some of the flame off you. :=>
Thomas.
"When in doubt, COMMUNICATE!" LRH
Podkayne-Xenu
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Jens Tingleff
Hash: SHA1
In article <7bho4p$38s$1...@news1.skynet.be>, "Marc De Turck"
<ide...@skynet.be> wrote:
> Dear fellow newsgroup mailers.
>
> Thanks for your advice.
>
You're welcome! Y'all come back for more, you hear?
> Is there someone who can give me a more workable system that makes
people
> more able, more ethical and more happy on this planet ?
>
Can you answer a direct question?
Could you be bothered to answer some of the questions posed to you in
this thread?
Will you *ever* post to a.r.s. again?
Is this being "more able" ??
[..]
> Why are those attacks necessary ? Why do you want to protect me
from some
> danger you think is there.
Well if you're upset about the attacks, why don't you just ignore
them?
Why don't you answer some questions?
Be Well
Jens
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--
------ PGP v5 DSS Key ID : 0x09722C12 . Merci, Mr. Jospin ;-) ------
http://www.imaginet.fr/~jensting/. Scientology[tm]?? Check it out at
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/mpoulter/scum.html *and*
http://www.scientology.org/. Report to alt.religion.scientology ;-)
thom...@my-dejanews.com
podk...@aol.com (Podkayne-Xenu) wrote:
> In article <7bich4$51l$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, thom...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > Well, keep in mind that most of the criticism you hear is aimed at the CofS,
> > and not at Scientology! So don't get sucked up into defending Scientology
when
> > the criticism is aimed at the Church of Scientology.
> >
> > However, unless you want to get a shock, don't delve too deep into what the
> > CofS has been doing in 'your' name. Things have gone on that you are
> > forbidden to know. I don't mean things like there are confidential material
> > posted, or copyright infringements, or 'SP's' galore, and such. I mean the
> > actual doing of the CofS that Scientologist are not supposed to know about.
> > As a Scientologist you are kept in the 'blind' for your 'own good'. You'd go
> > PTS, and you are not trusted to judge for yourself. Go to your local org MAA
> > or EO and tell them you were here and see.
>
> Thom! This is a change from when you first got here - you *are* "thinking
> for yourself" now. Good on you!
Hello Podkayne.
Think so? I suppose there is some truth to that, but in fact I've never
defended the CofS activities at any time in my posts, not really. I always
give the CofS the benefit of the doubt, and still do. I don't oppose the
CofS, or the SO even, but I've known there was something wrong in the SO for
many years. I just didn't realize how far the infection had spread until I
decided to look and find out.
I'm still same old clam, or is it a gnurd?
Cristino
>
> Do you really think he will post back? :)
>
Maybe, but most probably not...
Now I know how the SETI people feel... ;-)
Cristino, SP3
--
You are mocking up your reactive mind.
XENU and the BODY THETANS are THE REAL SOURCE of your problems.
http://www.xenu.net
Nico Kadel-Garcia
>Is there someone who can give me a more workable system that makes people
>more able, more ethical and more happy on this planet ?
Yes, ranging from Randism to atheism. The consistent criminal behavior
of the top elements of $cientology, from the murder of Lisa McPherson
by starvation and dehydration during her 17 day lockup in the Fort
Harrison Hotel, to the consistent theft of records and harassment
of ex-members under Mary Sue Hubbard's regime in the Guardian's Office
and continuing today in the Office of Special Affairs is so large,
so blatant, and so awful that it *must* be corrupt.
>I did not found one except Scientology. I'm Scientologist and Clear since
>1996 and happy to be one, My wife is OT4 and very happy to be one.
Well, good. So she's been through all the alien mental powers and
stuck on body thetans of OT III, right? Do you believe that Paulette
Cooper should have had bomb threats faked from her name for discussing
them publicly? Or that Dennis Erlich should have his computers seized
fraudulently because he carefully quoted other documents in Usenet
postings, verifying that the high level ravings are fact true?
Are you actually reading the postings in the newsgroup?
>Why are those attacks necessary ? Why do you want to protect me from some
>danger you think is there.
>Let me see and observe for myself. Or do you have other intentions which
>are not so noble as to inform someone ? In any way, the truth will remain
>on the long term. It did allways. This is not specific to Scientology,
Because there is a long and continuing history of deception, fraud,
and harassment on the part of your leadership, including the biggest
libel judgement in Canadian history, the take-over of Cult Awareness
Network, the constant libels of the Citizens' Commision of Human Rights,
fraud against banks, frauds against governments, and apparently the spam
attacks against this very newsgroup.
$5 says you don't read this post, only post positive stuff without
actually seeing any of the critical material.
--
Cristino
>
> No offense meant, Kate... but I'd never do what Dimitri suggested with
> fresh artichokes because it would be sacrilege to me to sacrifice
> fresh artichoke hearts to any of those recipes. As it is, they sound
> sublime.
>
I'll go even farther! It would be painful for me to sacrifice the
wonderful, succulent outer leaves of the artichoke as well. If I
need artichoke bottoms, I use canned ones. I cannot bear to
destroy one by my own hand.
Charlie
<><
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
>
> Kate B <ka...@wwa.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Dimitri G Criona wrote:
> >>
> >> JDeanGEO wrote in message <19990302112213...@ng43.aol.com>...
> >> >I find myself with an embarassing number of cans of artichoke bottoms. I've
> >> >done poached eggs on top with hollandaise, chopped in various casseroles,
> >> cold
> >> >with homemade mayo. Suggestions more than welcome.
> >>
> >> 1. Slice or dice and sauté in olive oil, with garlic and sun dried
> >> tomatoes (reconstitute in cab. please) and serve over pasta - Unbelievable
> >> with or without the tomatoes.
> >>
> >> 2. Stuff and bake like stuffed mushrooms.
> >>
> >> 3. Replace water chestnuts with the artichokes in spinach dip.
> >>
> >> 4. Blend with a feta based or parmesan cheese sauce for a hot dip with
> >> crusty bread.
> >>
> >> 5. Slice and make a focacia.
> >>
> >> That should take care of several cans,
> >>
> >> Dimitri
> >
> >Not an answer to the question 'cause I think canned artichokes are
> >beyond disgusting. But that's obviously me and no offense intended to
> >those who enjoy canned artichokes. I got some fresh artichokes (long
> >stemmed and almost baby) that I picked up on *deep* sale today. I
> >trimmed and peeled the stems (in addition to the usual) and prepared
> >three for marinated Roman style. I have three more that I would love to
> >duplicate in a dish that I had at Coco Pazzo Restaurant several years
> >ago. It was sautéed slivers of artichokes with a lemon, olive oil and
> >parmesan cheese. The artichokes were *not* boiled and steamed before
> >sautéing. I know how to prepare artichokes *that* way. I assume that
> >the bottoms were thin slices. Beyond that I am lost and this dish is no
> >longer served on the seasonal menu at Coco Pazzo. These were definitely
> >artichokes that included the leaves. They were slightly crunchy...but
> >only slightly. They were served *warm* as a salad. Any input would be
> >appreciated.
> >
> >Kate
--
*****************************************************************
Charles Liam Gifford 32:44:58N
<>< 117:06:33W
USS PORTERFIELD DD682
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/8893
Cristino
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Marc De Turck
1. I'm an active Scientologist and proud to be one. Scientology is
actually helping millions of people:
via: Narconon, Criminon, ABLE, CCHR, WISE. It is possible that
some people did encounter problems, even serious problems , this does not
alter the bona fide principles of L.R. Hubbard. And they are bona fide. It
is possible that some members of the Church of Scientology did not allways
do the right things, but this is also true of most movements (religious,
philosophical, and others) on earth. One judges a philosophy and a person
on his deeds and his convictions on the long run.
I'm sure all of you, like me, we where, some time in this lifetime, not so
nice boys and girls. I'm sure that Scientology changed my life for the best
and that of my wife. Scientology is studied thourougly by a lot of
academiciens, police officers, statesman. So far as I know, all religions
did endure serious attacks and survived, so will it be with Scientology.
Scientology has allways won in courts on the long run.
2. It is untrue that we cannot communicate in Scientology, I did read
most of the stuff you've written
(so the one who did bet, you've lost, I should have accepted your bet) and I
did go to my local Scientologist
Organisation, where they even received a copy of what you did write.
And I did not go to "ethics" or I was not looked upon strangely. I think
that those of you who are against, did not completely understand what is
going on today in Scientology, things are going fine, clears are attesting
massively, OT's are attesting regularly and the people do have successes.
3. Open your eyes, Scientology will be THE religion of the year 2000.
The actual leaders of Scientology are thurstworthy. And even if one doubts
about that, just read the books of L.R. Hubbard himself. There is nothing I
cannot agree with in what he writes.
4. To those who used part of my personal info of my web site, I can only
say this: I do not like your activities, and I will find out who you are
and make justice intervene. My site is my site, I do not use the source of
your site.
5. To those who did write me in a nice way and proposed anaother solution,
I say: Thanks for the fact that you're comments where not critical, but more
construcitve and positive. The day that I see that Scientology doens't work
anymore, I will consider what you've written.
6. To those who did write stories about OT3, 4,5,6,7,8,9 I say: Thanks
for your humor, it made me and some OT's in Brussels laugh.
7. To those who after this interesting debate want to know what
Scientology really is, please have a look at
http://www.myhompage.org/marcdeturck.
Sincerely.
Drs. Marc J. De Turck
Podkayne-Xenu heeft geschreven in bericht ...
>In article <7bh8u4$bt5$1...@news0.skynet.be>, "Marc De Turck"
><ide...@skynet.be> wrote:
>
>> Tired of studpid attacks and slander and lies about Scientology.
>> Scientology is the way to total freedom.
>> It is Bona Fide
>> Please do have a look at http://www.myhomepage.org/marcdeturck
>
>Sweetie darling, do you realize that to old C programmers and Unix
>hackers, and Xenu only knows what other sorts of computer people, your
>header reads "(not) Think for yourself"???
>
Marc De Turck
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c
Tilman Hausherr
wrote:
>3. Open your eyes, Scientology will be THE religion of the year 2000.
>The actual leaders of Scientology are thurstworthy. And even if one doubts
>about that, just read the books of L.R. Hubbard himself. There is nothing I
>cannot agree with in what he writes.
Therefore you are a racist! L. Ron Hubbard is well-known to be a racist.
Example taken from Professional Auditor's Bulletin
No. 119, 1st September 1957, "The Big Auditing Problem," as
published in "Level 0 PABS," by L. Ron Hubbard (c1968, The
American St. Hill Organization), pages 80-81:
"In North Africa they had the Arab with the gun and whip, but
he could force people to do things a gun and a whip [sic] and
he accomplished a tremendous amount of extermination, but he
certainly didn't advance that civilization very much. In
South Africa they had a bit of the whip but everybody just
gave up. The South African native is probably the one
impossible person to train in the entire world--he is probably
impossible by any human standard. I'll give you an example.
A South African native is being shown how to sow crops and he
has a basket, and he's got some seed, and he's walking along
back of the harrow disc--and he is supposed to throw seed out
this way, seed out this way, seed out that way, seed out this
way. A white man is riding a little tractor that's pulling
the disc and scraping the soil for the seed. And this scene
was enacted and was witnessed and was told to me with
considerable hilarity as some kind of learning rate. The
white man was sitting on the little tractor pulling the harrow,
the native along behind him, sowing the ssed straight down
in handfuls on the ground. The white man got off the tractor,
came back to the native, took the basket away from him, put
his hand in the basket, threw it to the right, put his hand
in the basket, threw it to the left, and gave it back to the
native. And the native waited, the white man got on the
tractor, drove along, and the native took a handful out of the
basket and threw it straight on the ground. So the white man
got off the tractor, came back, took the basket away from the
native, showed the native, throw it to the right, throw it
to the left, gave it back to the native, took him [sic] seat
again on the tractor, the native followed along behind, took
handsful and threw it straight on the ground! And this went
on for a very long time. The native never did throw any
handsful of seed to the right and left. Never did. That is
farming in South Africa.
LIST 57 28% 08/17/1997 10:50 LRH_AFRI.TXT
Now did anything ever come along and change that? Yes. Man
had to cease to be Homo Sapiens and had to become Homo
Scientologicus in order to accomplish any action that was
anywhere near efficient in South Africa. And we have had
some auditors in South Africa who have actually succeeded in
training natives easily and well and have successfully
managed large organizations there. That's certainly something.
Now with these people it was still possible to get something
done. But what had this native done? Was this native what
we think of as primitive stock? No, we make a great many
mistakes. We say a child is in a "native state". A native
is in a "native state". People are in a barbaric condition
and then they grow up and become civilized. How do we know
that this barbaric condition isn't a retrogression from a
highly civilized condition back to an Only One category?
How do we know that isn't true? How do we know that that
native didn't at one time achieve a great civilization of
culture which then collapsed on him and he went back into a
state of being a barbarian?
But the point is, is this true that a native is in a clearer
state, and is it true that it requires Livingness to advance
somebody in that crude state up to a condition of ability?
No, that is not ture. The child, the primitive, the native,
are in retrograded states. They are worse off than
somebody who is at a civilized or thinking or analytical
level."
Hubbard goes on in this PAB to explain how children and
psychotics are identical because they share identical
"delusions", although children grow out of them while
psychotics remain locked in them. Hubbard appears to be
attempting to make the point that psychotics, "natives",
and children should all be treated in a similar manner.
He concludes by stating:
"But all I am telling you is that children, South African
natives, and now the entirety of this world in which we are
living, presents to us an auditing problem. We are rich
in being able to understand what is happening in our
environment and we are rich also in knowing exactly how
to handle such a circumstance or condition. Nobody knew
before. That is factually true here on Earth."
So, Marc, do you agree with this?
Tilman
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4]
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Clearwater pictures: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/4497/clearwater/index.html
Find broken links on your web site: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html
Annoy scientology by buying books: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/bookstore.html
©Anti-Cult®
In Message-ID: <7bipef$1cc$1...@news0.skynet.be>
"Marc De Turck" <ide...@skynet.be>.
From: I.D.E.A.S..
Wrote on the subject: Re: *SPAM-DIALUP* !Think for yourself:
>Dear unkown person.
>
>
>I hope you have to courage to show who you really are.
>
>I do not appreciate it that copyright materials (you took only a small part
>of my site, so don't worry too much) is copied without my consent to a
>posting of a newsgroup.
>
>Should this occur more, I will be forced to see my lawyer.
>
>Sincerely.
>
>Marc
Would that lawyer be Helena Kobrin?
Bwahahaha.
Litigous supporter of a criminal cult, or supporting cultist of a
litigous criminal establishment :-)
Bite me cultist...
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Hubbard, on the "proper instruction attitude":
"The proper instruction attitude is, 'You're here so you're a
Scientologist. Now we're going to make you into an expert auditor
no matter what happens. We'd rather have you dead than incapable.
'" (HCO PL 7 February 1965 "Keeping Scientology Working")
Apparently Flag was following Hubbard's "Source", or "Command
Intention". Lisa seemed to have become incapable as a Scientologist.
So the thetans at Flag made her dead.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
******* Body thetans? We don't need no stinking Body Thetans! *******
*********** http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/index.htm ************
* Multimedia: http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/multimed/index.htm *
**** Public PGP key: http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/pgp.htm *****
******** The.Galacti...@ThePentagon.com (Anti-Cult) ********
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Enzo Piccone
Do you have no better way of getting your posts up these days than
replying to a troll, BT?
E
--
Note: Correct e-mail address is en...@ermes.it.
Rob Clark
wrote:
>Tilman Hausherr wrote:
>Do you have no better way of getting your posts up these days than
>replying to a troll, BT?
he's no troll. he has an official spam page on a scientology-owned
server.
http://www.myhomepage.org/marcdeturck
>E
rob
Tilman Hausherr
>Do you have no better way of getting your posts up these days than
>replying to a troll, BT?
So you are alleging that Marc De Turck, at
http://www.myhomepage.org/marcdeturck/ is a troll ? If so, then I assume
there are 14,000 identical trolls.
Marder
wrote:
>Tired of studpid attacks and slander and lies from Scientology ?
>Scientology is the way to total slavery.
>Please do have a look at http://www.myhomepage.org/TeteDeTurck
Now switching to french to make sure Marc understands, his fluency in
english being far from perfect.
Le titre de votre message est déjà erroné. La $cientologie ne permet
justement pas de penser par soi-même. Les enseignements de LRH sont à
respecter à la lettre, aucune interprétation n'est autorisée (pas de
tech verbale). C'est l'opposé de la libre pensée, le règne du dogme.
Quant à vos autres messages ainsi que votre page Web soi-disant
personelle, je n'y vois que la propagande standard $cientologique qui
a vu fleurir des milliers de pages quasi identiques à la votre sur le
Web.
Pensez pas vous même, quelle blague !
Vous promouvez et soutenez une organisation qui a à son actif
plusieurs décès, directs ou indirects, d'innombrables faillites et
déchéances personnelles, des familles déchirées, des enfants qui ont
perdu un de leur parents, happé par la pieuvre.
Un jour il faudra bien que quelqu'un rende compte du mal qui a été
fait. Et les personnes qui comme vous ont fait une promotion publique
du culte seront en première ligne. DejaNews sera le grand témoin.
Alors retournez dans votre org, profitez des derniers mois qu'il reste
à la $cientologie avant son écroulement, et quand vous vous
réveillerez comme d'un mauvais rêve, vous vous rendrez compte du tort
que vous aurez commis en supportant cette pseudo-église corrompue et
constaterez que vous aurez gaché la meilleure partie votre vie pour un
gain nul.
Si maintenant vous croyez vous-même au principe du "Pensez par vous
même", jettez donc un coup d'oeil sur les différents sites des
critiques. Même si ne serait-ce qu'un pourcent de tout ce qui s'y
trouve est vrai, la $cientologie est une vraie escroquerie et un réel
danger pour la liberté individuelle. Quittez-la au plus vite.
Marder
Enzo Piccone
>
> >Do you have no better way of getting your posts up these days than
> >replying to a troll, BT?
>
> server.
>
> http://www.myhomepage.org/marcdeturck
thanks, rob.
god's truth, what i'm obliged to live with as a sci't.
e
--
note: correct e-mail address is en...@ermes.it.
Fredric L. Rice
wrote:
>Dear unkown person.
>
>
>I hope you have to courage to show who you really are.
And yet for some mysterious reason, Scientologists nearly always
pos to this forum anonymously. Now why do you think that is? I
mean, what ave your cult leaders told you is the reason for such
cowardize among cult followers?
Fredric L. Rice
wrote:
>I do not appreciate it that copyright materials (you took only a small part
>of my site, so don't worry too much) is copied without my consent to a
>posting of a newsgroup.
Tough shit, I must say. You are free to sue. You may begin at any
time.
Of course that means we get to learn your identity and, of course, we
get to sopena your cult leaders' hard disk drives. Woops!
Fredric L. Rice
wrote:
>Should this occur more, I will be forced to see my lawyer.
Don't forget that your _doctor_ can do more for you than a lawyer can.
Darvon Complex, I would suggest.
Hartley Patterson
> > Thom! This is a change from when you first got here - you *are* "thinking
> > for yourself" now. Good on you!
> Think so? I suppose there is some truth to that, but in fact I've never
> defended the CofS activities at any time in my posts, not really. I always
> give the CofS the benefit of the doubt, and still do. I don't oppose the
> CofS, or the SO even, but I've known there was something wrong in the SO for
> many years. I just didn't realize how far the infection had spread until I
> decided to look and find out.
The difference is the next steps, from 'thinking for yourself' to
'speaking for yourself' to 'listening to others' to 'debating with
others'.
The CoS has no objection to its members thinking for themselves - so
long as they keep quiet. Open your wallet, take the courses, don't ask
questions. The entire structure, from the tech downwards, is set up to
discourage questions.
Another next step is to learn the dictionary definition of
'responsibility'. In the CoS the emphasis is on taking responsibility
for your personal life. Taking responsibility for the effect of your
actions upon others is deemphasised. I suspect most CoS members know in
their hearts that something is rotten at the top, but they don't feel
responsible for it. Their money pays for their courses, period.
--
Hartley Patterson
http://village.vossnet.co.uk/h/hpttrsn/
An old universe and a medieval spreadsheet
Featuring JRR Tolkien, Charles Fort and L Ron Hubbard
Roland
>
> To all the people against Scientology
>
> 1. I'm an active Scientologist and proud to be one. Scientology is
> actually helping millions of people:
Bollocks.
> via: Narconon, Criminon, ABLE, CCHR, WISE. It is possible that
> some people did encounter problems, even serious problems , this does not
> alter the bona fide principles of L.R. Hubbard. And they are bona fide. It
Prove it.
> is possible that some members of the Church of Scientology did not allways
Learn to spell right.
> do the right things, but this is also true of most movements (religious,
> philosophical, and others) on earth. One judges a philosophy and a person
> on his deeds and his convictions on the long run.
Then can we judge Hubbard on his nasty habit of locking young
children in chain lockers on the Flagship Apollo?
If not then can we judge Hubbard on his conviction that the opponents
of Scientology "should be disposed of, quietly and without sorrow"?
> I'm sure all of you, like me, we where, some time in this lifetime, not so
> nice boys and girls. I'm sure that Scientology changed my life for the best
> and that of my wife.
How much did her OT IV cost you?
> Scientology is studied thourougly by a lot of
> academiciens,
Interesting word...
> police officers, statesman. So far as I know, all religions
> did endure serious attacks and survived, so will it be with Scientology.
Well all religions of the past killed poeple. What are you waiting
for? Kill critics, like L. Ron Hubbard says!
> Scientology has allways won in courts on the long run.
How about Greece?
> 2. It is untrue that we cannot communicate in Scientology, I did read
> most of the stuff you've written
> (so the one who did bet, you've lost, I should have accepted your bet) and I
> did go to my local Scientologist
> Organisation, where they even received a copy of what you did write.
> And I did not go to "ethics" or I was not looked upon strangely. I think
> that those of you who are against, did not completely understand what is
> going on today in Scientology, things are going fine, clears are attesting
> massively, OT's are attesting regularly and the people do have successes.
OTs had better attest. If not then they disagree that they are full
of "body thetans". They must have an MU somewhere in all their years
of study. Better find it at their expense. After they had handed
over $10,000 then maybe they are PTS or something. Maybe they should
hand over another $20,000 to locate the Source of the initial
confusion.
> 3. Open your eyes, Scientology will be THE religion of the year 2000.
I fucking doubt it.
> The actual leaders of Scientology are thurstworthy. And even if one doubts
They're thirsty alright!!
> about that, just read the books of L.R. Hubbard himself. There is nothing I
> cannot agree with in what he writes.
Are you full of dead space-aliens?
> 4. To those who used part of my personal info of my web site, I can only
> say this: I do not like your activities, and I will find out who you are
> and make justice intervene. My site is my site, I do not use the source of
> your site.
>
> 5. To those who did write me in a nice way and proposed anaother solution,
> I say: Thanks for the fact that you're comments where not critical, but more
> construcitve and positive. The day that I see that Scientology doens't work
Oh fuck. This has got to be a troll. Nobody spells as badly as this
in reality.
> anymore, I will consider what you've written.
>
> 6. To those who did write stories about OT3, 4,5,6,7,8,9 I say: Thanks
> for your humor, it made me and some OT's in Brussels laugh.
It makes the leaders of Scientology in California PISS THEMSELVES
WITH LAUGHTER.
> 7. To those who after this interesting debate want to know what
> Scientology really is, please have a look at
> http://www.myhompage.org/marcdeturck.
..or http://www.xenu.net/
> Sincerely.
Maybe you were once capable of it.
> Drs. Marc J. De Turck
>
> Podkayne-Xenu heeft geschreven in bericht ...
> >In article <7bh8u4$bt5$1...@news0.skynet.be>, "Marc De Turck"
> ><ide...@skynet.be> wrote:
> >
> >> Tired of studpid attacks and slander and lies about Scientology.
> >> Scientology is the way to total freedom.
> >> It is Bona Fide
> >> Please do have a look at http://www.myhomepage.org/marcdeturck
> >
> >Sweetie darling, do you realize that to old C programmers and Unix
> >hackers, and Xenu only knows what other sorts of computer people, your
> >header reads "(not) Think for yourself"???
> >
> >--
> >"Dear Joe. I'm sorry but no go on coming out of isolation yet"
> >-- Sacred Co$ Scripture
> >Read more Heinlein
Roland
--
"I notice that we all believe that Venus has a methane atmosphere and
is unlivable. I almost got run down by a freight locomotive the other
day -- didn't look very uncivilized to me." - L. Ron Hubbard,
"Between Lives Implants" lecture, SHSBC #317. 23 July 1963.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Venusloc.ram
Mike O'Connor
<ide...@skynet.be> wrote:
> To all the people against Scientology
You are confused about the huffle ruffle here in a.r.s.
It's not about religion. It's about abuse of people and the law.
--
Mike O'Connor - lep...@panix.com
<http://www.panix.com/~lepton/>
Ethan
religion subscribes to making the "able more able"? What if you're
disabled? What if you are poor and don't want to sign a billion
year contract with the church? Why does a church try to shut down
the internet to suppress open criticism? (If your church is so good
it should welcome honest criticism and stand by its scriptures)
How come there are many people who have died or committed suicide
while in the custody of church? What is so great about someone who
had delusions of grandeur while in the United States Navy, made
racist remarks, and said it was okay to take the property and lives
of anyone opposing his scriptures?
--
"The end of all knowledge should be virtuous action." --Phillip
Sydney
Roland
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Podkayne-Xenu
> I think
> that those of you who are against, did not completely understand what is
> going on today in Scientology, things are going fine, clears are attesting
> massively,
Really? We get regular updates straight from Advance! magazine, and
"massively" seems to be an overstatement.
>
> 4. To those who used part of my personal info of my web site, I can only
> say this: I do not like your activities, and I will find out who you are
> and make justice intervene. My site is my site, I do not use the source of
> your site.
Huh?
> 6. To those who did write stories about OT3, 4,5,6,7,8,9 I say: Thanks
> for your humor, it made me and some OT's in Brussels laugh.
Hope you're still laughing when you take the OT levels. Xenu Xenu Xenu!
> 7. To those who after this interesting debate want to know what
> Scientology really is, please have a look at
> http://www.myhompage.org/marcdeturck.
Your webpage is astoundingly similar to the 14000 other Scn "personal"
webpages. If you want to convey the idea that "Scientology really is"
about being a clone of every other Scn, you've done it. If instead you
meant to convey that it's "Think for yourself" you've failed.
Podkayne-Xenu
<ide...@skynet.be> wrote:
> Dear unkown person.
>
>
> I hope you have to courage to show who you really are.
>
> I do not appreciate it that copyright materials (you took only a small part
> of my site, so don't worry too much) is copied without my consent to a
> posting of a newsgroup.
>
> Should this occur more, I will be forced to see my lawyer.
Word-clear "fair use"
Boudewijn van Ingen
>On Tue, 2 Mar 1999 18:54:34 +0100, "Marc De Turck" <ide...@skynet.be>
>wrote:
>
>>Tired of studpid attacks and slander and lies from Scientology ?
>>Scientology is the way to total slavery.
>>Please do have a look at http://www.myhomepage.org/TeteDeTurck
>
>Now switching to french to make sure Marc understands, his fluency in
>english being far from perfect.
[snip - and changing back to English, because my French isn't *that*
good...]
>Un jour il faudra bien que quelqu'un rende compte du mal qui a ete
>fait. Et les personnes qui comme vous ont fait une promotion publique
>du culte seront en premiere ligne. DejaNews sera le grand temoin.
I would like to point out that Marc has been on TV as a spokesperson
for the Belgian branch of the criminal organization already. His
statements will not only be recorded on Deja-News...
Groeten,
Boudewijn, Kox.
"I guarantee you that isn't true," said Mike Rinder, a top official for Scientology
Boudewijn van Ingen
>Do you have no better way of getting your posts up these days than
>replying to a troll, BT?
>
>E
I have a "Marc De Turck" on video. From a (Belgian or Dutch) TV-report
about $cientology. He even explains some word -with the help of some
dictionary- to his daughter on it.
Do you think I have images of a "troll"? Would I be the first one to
have images like that? What do you think I should do with images of
such a "troll", Enzo?
roger gonnet
Tilman Hausherr wrote:
>
> In <7bjke4$7ea$1...@news0.skynet.be>, "Marc De Turck" <ide...@skynet.be>
> wrote:
>
> >3. Open your eyes, Scientology will be THE religion of the year 2000.
> >The actual leaders of Scientology are thurstworthy. And even if one doubts
> >about that, just read the books of L.R. Hubbard himself. There is nothing I
> >cannot agree with in what he writes.
>
> Therefore you are a racist! L. Ron Hubbard is well-known to be a racist.
> Example taken from Professional Auditor's Bulletin
> No. 119, 1st September 1957, "The Big Auditing Problem," as
> published in "Level 0 PABS," by L. Ron Hubbard (c1968, The
> American St. Hill Organization), pages 80-81:
(it looks that they have even invented now a special course for south
africa auditin'!
so, they keep being racists; they are elitist, and someway,
suprematistss, if we look the number of them upper management guys who
are coloured.
roger
Steve Zadarnowski
>Tired of studpid attacks and slander and lies about Scientology.
>Scientology is the way to total freedom.
>It is Bona Fide
>Please do have a look at http://www.myhomepage.org/marcdeturck
Just another ScienoWebClone - seen one, seen 13,476 of them.
Think for yourself? Sure...
S
Enzo Piccone
>
> >Do you have no better way of getting your posts up these days than
> >replying to a troll, BT?
> >
> >E
>
> about $cientology. He even explains some word -with the help of some
> dictionary- to his daughter on it.
Good for you. Good for Marc. Good for Belgian or Dutch tv.
> Do you think I have images of a "troll"? Would I be the first one to
> have images like that? What do you think I should do with images of
> such a "troll", Enzo?
I think you should keep up to date with what's been written to the
thread to save everyone time with something out of date such as the
above. See my earlier reply to rob.
Steve Zadarnowski
>I do not appreciate it that copyright materials (you took only a small part
>of my site, so don't worry too much) is copied without my consent to a
>posting of a newsgroup.
>
>Should this occur more, I will be forced to see my lawyer.
I'd like to know how you'd explain the difference between a web site
and a newsgroup to your lawyer. You apparently don't have enough
clues to be effective. While you are seeing your lawyer, you
might want to think about talking to him/her too. Just a free
clue for you.
If all you can do is advertise Scientology and bitch about your
eminently public information newsgrouped, you might consider
sending e-mail to yourself. Read it and you might learn
something.
S
thom...@my-dejanews.com
Because.
Thomas.
"When in doubt, COMMUNICATE!" LRH
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Fredric L. Rice
wrote:
>Boudewijn van Ingen wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 03 Mar 1999 20:15:25 +0100, Enzo Piccone <en...@hermes.it>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Do you have no better way of getting your posts up these days than
>> >replying to a troll, BT?
>> I have a "Marc De Turck" on video. From a (Belgian or Dutch) TV-report
>> about $cientology. He even explains some word -with the help of some
>> dictionary- to his daughter on it.
>
>Good for you. Good for Marc. Good for Belgian or Dutch tv.
Would could hardly consider being in a deadly and dangerous cult
"good," you know. Marc needs help getting out.
NoScieno
says...
(our new PTS friend Marc the Belgian Scientologist hallucinated...)
> > 3. Open your eyes, Scientology will be THE religion of the year 2000.
>
> I fucking doubt it.
Scientology will be the laughingstock of the year 2000, representing all
the worst parts of all the destructive cults in history congealed into
one festering glob of hate and deception. Still and all, there's
no reason to dispair. People will take pity on the threadbare body-
routers even if the unfortunate cult victims cannot bring themselves to
see reason. These days people walking past the Orgs giggle as they point
and peer in the windows, but more and more often you'll see kind-hearted
souls giving coins and sandwiches to them.
> > The actual leaders of Scientology are thurstworthy. And even if one doubts
>
> They're thirsty alright!!
>
I read that as "thrustworthy." Just ask wgert's pig, "if one doubts...."
--
NoScieno accepts NoMail (spam block) Try "Thynkr"(same.isp)
Chris Leithiser
> Scientology will be the laughingstock of the year 2000, representing all
> the worst parts of all the destructive cults in history congealed into
> one festering glob of hate and deception. Still and all, there's
> no reason to dispair. People will take pity on the threadbare body-
> routers even if the unfortunate cult victims cannot bring themselves to
> see reason. These days people walking past the Orgs giggle as they point
> and peer in the windows, but more and more often you'll see kind-hearted
> souls giving coins and sandwiches to them.
I can see the signs they'll hold up at streetcorners: WILL GIVE PERSONALITY TEST
FOR FOOD.
NoScieno
"Raw Meat" will be whatever they can scrape off the road. The phrase,
"pick up the cans" will gain a whole new meaning too.
NoScieno
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Tommy
>
> rob clark wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 03 Mar 1999 20:15:25 +0100, Enzo Piccone <en...@hermes.it>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > >Do you have no better way of getting your posts up these days than
> > >replying to a troll, BT?
> >
> > server.
> >
> > http://www.myhomepage.org/marcdeturck
>
> thanks, rob.
>
> god's truth, what i'm obliged to live with as a sci't.
>
Hey - the guy's just doing what he can to clear the planet. Cut him some
slack. It's not his fault that he sounds like a Rondroid - it's that
marvelous tek in action. This is the EP, Enzo - him and wgert and
rodflecher and qwerty. Live with it.
Tommy
--
"Bluntly, we are out to replace medicine in the next three years."
L.Ron Hubbard - 1952
Rob Clark
wrote:
>Hey - the guy's just doing what he can to clear the planet. Cut him some
>slack. It's not his fault that he sounds like a Rondroid - it's that
>marvelous tek in action. This is the EP, Enzo - him and wgert and
>rodflecher and qwerty. Live with it.
i am fairly saddened that we will no longer be able to "live with it"
since seemingly he has been pulled off ars and brought back under
"command intention."
this alone is fairly solid proof of what scientology and "think for
yourself" really means. enzo, will you try to find out what has
happened within your own church that suddenly dragged out one of your
better and more honest debaters?
or is that beyond hope, that scientology will start living up to its
own stated creed?
The Creed of the Church of Scientology
The Creed of the Church of Scientology was written by L. Ron Hubbard
shortly after the Church was formed in Los Angeles on February 18,
1954.
After he issued this creed from his office in Phoenix, Arizona, the
Church of Scientology adopted it as official because it succinctly
states what Scientologists believe.
-----
We of the Church believe:
That all men of whatever race, color or creed were created with
equal rights;
That all men have inalienable rights to their own religious
practices and their performance;
That all men have inalienable rights to their own lives;
That all men have inalienable rights to their sanity;
That all men have inalienable rights to their own defense;
That all men have inalienable rights to conceive, choose, assist
or support their own organizations, churches and governments;
That all men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk
freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter
or write upon the opinions of others;
[partial fair use quote from
http://alfa.ist.utl.pt/~dif/ic/faqs/codes_an.htm
this actually seems to be a pretty good creed--why don't you guys live
up to it? isn't that why you joined in the first place, for freedom?]
rob
Rob Clark
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Enzo Piccone
> On Sat, 06 Mar 1999 11:03:19 -0600, Tommy <Tommy_sp**ges...@xs.net>
> wrote:
> >Hey - the guy's just doing what he can to clear the planet. Cut him some
> >slack. It's not his fault that he sounds like a Rondroid - it's that
> >marvelous tek in action. This is the EP, Enzo - him and wgert and
> >rodflecher and qwerty. Live with it.
>
> i am fairly saddened that we will no longer be able to "live with it"
> since seemingly he has been pulled off ars and brought back under
> "command intention."
i've no idea what happened with him. i replied by mail to his article
which requested that other sci'ts get in touch with him, but i've heard
nothing back.
as you pointed out to me, he has his on-line-sci't page, so he should be
a sci't in good standing, but the impression that he was trolling has
not left me. which isn't to say i still think he was, but i'm not
ruling it out.
> this alone is fairly solid proof of what scientology and "think for
> yourself" really means.
you've jumped the gun.
enzo, will you try to find out what has
> happened within your own church that suddenly dragged out one of your
> better and more honest debaters?
what do you expect me to do? put out a sci't-missing-from-a.r.s.
alert?
> or is that beyond hope, that scientology will start living up to its
> own stated creed?
>
> The Creed of the Church of Scientology
<snip wonderful creed>
chill out, rod. one would think you were Andre when he goes maudlin and
pretends to summon casavius.
e
--
note: correct e-mail address is en...@ermes.it.
Rob Clark
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Rob Clark
wrote:
>rob clark wrote:
>> On Sat, 06 Mar 1999 11:03:19 -0600, Tommy <Tommy_sp**ges...@xs.net>
>> wrote:
>> >Hey - the guy's just doing what he can to clear the planet. Cut him some
>> >slack. It's not his fault that he sounds like a Rondroid - it's that
>> >marvelous tek in action. This is the EP, Enzo - him and wgert and
>> >rodflecher and qwerty. Live with it.
>> i am fairly saddened that we will no longer be able to "live with it"
>> since seemingly he has been pulled off ars and brought back under
>> "command intention."
>i've no idea what happened with him. i replied by mail to his article
>which requested that other sci'ts get in touch with him, but i've heard
>nothing back.
i wonder why.
>as you pointed out to me, he has his on-line-sci't page, so he should be
>a sci't in good standing, but the impression that he was trolling has
>not left me. which isn't to say i still think he was, but i'm not
>ruling it out.
that *is* actually possible. i think a sci't (i hate that abbrv,
what's wrong with scn or scieno anyway?) is probably capable of
trolling, so simply having a spam page is probably not complete proof
of non-trolldom. and trolling ars is like shooting fish in a barrel,
and has been for years. i recall when lewis de payne showed up and
started posting mash-notes to helena kobrin and pretending to be
pro-scientology, and despite repeated posts warning that he was one of
the most notorious and clever trolls on the net, people would still
end up following up to his infuriating posts. even sten-arne managed
to pass as a scientologist, though suspected of being a troll after
the first week.
>> this alone is fairly solid proof of what scientology and "think for
>> yourself" really means.
>you've jumped the gun.
>enzo, will you try to find out what has
>> happened within your own church that suddenly dragged out one of your
>> better and more honest debaters?
>what do you expect me to do? put out a sci't-missing-from-a.r.s.
>alert?
well, i *do* actually wonder what happened. a weird handling is also
not impossible, is it? such things have happened.
i don't really think this calls for sending out cavalry or search
parties or anything, i'd just be kind of interested in at least a
goodbye message saying why the guy is leaving. preferably it should
actually sound like him.
(and yeah, of course, it's entirely possible he trolled ars, got
bored, and left. i'm not suggesting anyone physically drag him back
to ars for this--but i wonder why he didn't do it. he seemed
sincere--not that i haven't been trolled before.)
>> or is that beyond hope, that scientology will start living up to its
>> own stated creed?
>> The Creed of the Church of Scientology
><snip wonderful creed>
>chill out, rod. one would think you were Andre when he goes maudlin and
>pretends to summon casavius.
jesus FUCK. "ROD?" my name is rob. i know that's a typo but it's
just weirdly annoying. and also, while i generally don't find your
posts offensive, i find the continuing motif of insulting andre fairly
disturbing. whatever you may think of his strategies for trying to
contact his son, it is pretty cold shit to dis a dad trying to contact
his son before relatives die and can no longer be communicated with..
no matter how silly you find his means.
as both of us know, quite well, andre is a declared SP. he does not
have any terminal within the church but the International Justice
Chief. and both of us know that ain't worth dick.
i don't frankly find it an appropriate object for humor. as pathetic
as it is for a father to have to try to contact his son by begging on
a usenet newsgroup, is it not rather more pathetic that there is a
group the behavior of which makes such behavior possibly a father's
only hope?
i'd hope if there's anyone with any decency who reads that post, that
they get casavius in touch with his dad, at least to communicate.
>e
rob
Rob Clark
Kvcab Boy
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Enzo Piccone
<snips for brevity>
> that *is* actually possible. i think a sci't (i hate that abbrv,
> what's wrong with scn or scieno anyway?) is probably capable of
> trolling, so simply having a spam page is probably not complete proof
> of non-trolldom. and trolling ars is like shooting fish in a barrel,
> and has been for years. i recall when lewis de payne showed up and
> started posting mash-notes to helena kobrin and pretending to be
> pro-scientology, and despite repeated posts warning that he was one of
> the most notorious and clever trolls on the net, people would still
> end up following up to his infuriating posts. even sten-arne managed
> to pass as a scientologist, though suspected of being a troll after
> the first week.
the possibilities, as i see them, are as follows.
he was trolling. unlikely but possible.
he wasn't impressed with and/or interested in and/or appreciative of the
feedback he received on a.r.s. and/or by e-mail, so he decided to quit.
possible, but i don't think so.
he wasn't at all prepared for a.r.s., realised something -- i wouldn't
know what exactly -- and decided to quit, at least temporarily. he
certainly didn't appear to have a clue about the fact that some of the
criticism on a.r.s. is legitimate. this is why i thought he was a
troll: he looked like an a.r.s. regular doing a good impersonation of a
clueless sci't. so, this last possibility is my current best guess.
> >enzo, will you try to find out what has
> >> happened within your own church that suddenly dragged out one of your
> >> better and more honest debaters?
>
> >what do you expect me to do? put out a sci't-missing-from-a.r.s.
> >alert?
>
> well, i *do* actually wonder what happened. a weird handling is also
> not impossible, is it? such things have happened.
i don't know what you mean by a "weird handling" and we don't need
another list of my speculations here.
i've been posting for just over a year, as you know, and i've never been
handled, weirdly or otherwise. as i wrote soon after my arrival, i
began, and have continued, posting entirely on my own initiative and
entirely independently.
there's russ, who can speak for himself. and there was claire, who
didn't get "handled" either, but simply left in disgust.
these are the only sci'ts, public or staff, that participate/have
participated in a.r.s. and whom i know personally. and i got to know
both russ and claire as a result of our meeting in a.r.s.. actually,
someone who was already a friend of mine posted for a very short while
about four years ago, but left for the same reason claire did. and
unless i'm forgetting someone else, that's it.
there was "SB" a while back, and for a while, but i didn't know him and
i've no idea what happened with him either.
you may remember my having taken up warrior some months ago in the
matter of public sci'ts participating in a.r.s.. warrior had been
promoting, obnoxiously and ad nauseum, a robotic interpretation of some
scn doctrine, to the exclusion of other scn doctrine, such as the code
you quoted yourself, and for the purpose of insisting on the false
conclusion that a.r.s. is somehow off limits to public sci'ts.
this is nonsense, and i repeatedly explained why in that discussion.
i know a number of sci'ts, otoh, who've checked out a.r.s. and just
"walked away." a general, yet accurate, statement of their attitude
about participating would be one of "what for?" or "why bother?"
i also know a couple or three sci'ts -- always public, as i don't know
anything more about staff than i might glean or speculate from a.r.s. --
who read a.r.s. periodically to see "what's happening."
to conclude, i've little interest and no concern about what have happned
to think-for-yourself marc.
> >chill out, rod. one would think you were Andre when he goes maudlin and
> >pretends to summon casavius.
>
> jesus FUCK. "ROD?" my name is rob. i know that's a typo but it's
> just weirdly annoying.
typos happen. sheesh!
and also, while i generally don't find your
> posts offensive, i find the continuing motif of insulting andre fairly
> disturbing. whatever you may think of his strategies for trying to
> contact his son, it is pretty cold shit to dis a dad trying to contact
> his son before relatives die and can no longer be communicated with..
> no matter how silly you find his means.
>
> as both of us know, quite well, andre is a declared SP. he does not
> have any terminal within the church but the International Justice
> Chief. and both of us know that ain't worth dick.
>
> i don't frankly find it an appropriate object for humor. as pathetic
> as it is for a father to have to try to contact his son by begging on
> a usenet newsgroup, is it not rather more pathetic that there is a
> group the behavior of which makes such behavior possibly a father's
> only hope?
>
> i'd hope if there's anyone with any decency who reads that post, that
> they get casavius in touch with his dad, at least to communicate.
we've had this discussion before, rob. i'd only add here that my remark
above was an observation i considered, and continue to consider, an
accurate representation of andre's articles to a.r.s..
Podkayne-Xenu
Rob_...@justicemail.com (Rob Clark) wrote:
> i think that participation in ars is at least discouraged. but i
> think that might only apply if OSA somehow feels that a poster is
> "embarrassing" them with their posts or being off-policy or something.
I'm really curious what they'd consider "embarassing", considering all the
wgert posts...
--
"Dear Joe. I'm sorry but no go on coming out of isolation yet"
-- Sacred Co$ Scripture
Read more Heinlein
Bernie
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Rob Clark
wrote:
>> that *is* actually possible. i think a sci't (i hate that abbrv,
>> what's wrong with scn or scieno anyway?) is probably capable of
>> trolling, so simply having a spam page is probably not complete proof
>> of non-trolldom. and trolling ars is like shooting fish in a barrel,
>> and has been for years. i recall when lewis de payne showed up and
>> started posting mash-notes to helena kobrin and pretending to be
>> pro-scientology, and despite repeated posts warning that he was one of
>> the most notorious and clever trolls on the net, people would still
>> end up following up to his infuriating posts. even sten-arne managed
>> to pass as a scientologist, though suspected of being a troll after
>> the first week.
>the possibilities, as i see them, are as follows.
>he was trolling. unlikely but possible.
>he wasn't impressed with and/or interested in and/or appreciative of the
>feedback he received on a.r.s. and/or by e-mail, so he decided to quit.
>possible, but i don't think so.
i'd imagine that's actually a fairly reasonable response. anyone who
posts anything even remotely supportive of scn, or even that is not
opposed to it, the accusations of OSA this and OSA that start rolling
in. and while this is somewhat excusable i think (there are in fact
OSA agents around here), it certainly can't really impress any scn who
comes here and starts posting.
i am always somewhat annoyed by that, because a "real" OSA agent would
not leave on such an accusation, but it would understandably piss
someone off who gets accused of being basically a spy just for stating
their opinion.
i have rarely seen much good result from OSA accusations even when the
person actually *was* OSA. i frankly don't even *care* if someone is
an OSA agent--i *do* care about specific actions that they might take
against me. they can be an OSA agent all they like as far as i'm
concerned, if they stay out of my backyard and that of my friends.
>he wasn't at all prepared for a.r.s., realised something -- i wouldn't
>know what exactly -- and decided to quit, at least temporarily. he
>certainly didn't appear to have a clue about the fact that some of the
>criticism on a.r.s. is legitimate. this is why i thought he was a
>troll: he looked like an a.r.s. regular doing a good impersonation of a
>clueless sci't. so, this last possibility is my current best guess.
it *is* just remotely possible that a troll could manage to sneak in
and get a spam page, but it seems like too much effort. i think the
"he got pissed off and left" option is probably most likely.
>> >what do you expect me to do? put out a sci't-missing-from-a.r.s.
>> >alert?
>> well, i *do* actually wonder what happened. a weird handling is also
>> not impossible, is it? such things have happened.
>i don't know what you mean by a "weird handling" and we don't need
>another list of my speculations here.
a "weird handling" would be like heidrun beer got. a worse example
would be kim baker's "handling."
>i've been posting for just over a year, as you know, and i've never been
>handled, weirdly or otherwise. as i wrote soon after my arrival, i
>began, and have continued, posting entirely on my own initiative and
>entirely independently.
i've never seen any reason to think otherwise.
>there's russ, who can speak for himself. and there was claire, who
>didn't get "handled" either, but simply left in disgust.
>these are the only sci'ts, public or staff, that participate/have
>participated in a.r.s. and whom i know personally. and i got to know
>both russ and claire as a result of our meeting in a.r.s.. actually,
>someone who was already a friend of mine posted for a very short while
>about four years ago, but left for the same reason claire did. and
>unless i'm forgetting someone else, that's it.
i also recall elizabeth mccoy, a second-generation scientologist who
posted here years ago and was actually quite well-respected. i miss
beth. there was also "jonathon" (id...@primenet.com) who came here to
"strike a blow against the enemy" as part of a doubt formula, and
eventually ended up quitting. and of course whippersnapper, who i
never much cared for to tell the truth.
>there was "SB" a while back, and for a while, but i didn't know him and
>i've no idea what happened with him either.
>you may remember my having taken up warrior some months ago in the
>matter of public sci'ts participating in a.r.s.. warrior had been
>promoting, obnoxiously and ad nauseum, a robotic interpretation of some
>scn doctrine, to the exclusion of other scn doctrine, such as the code
>you quoted yourself, and for the purpose of insisting on the false
>conclusion that a.r.s. is somehow off limits to public sci'ts.
i don't think this is necessarily a monolithic policy, but at least a
couple of the people posting here (heidrun beer) did get a "weird
handling" and threatened with a comm ev. when she responded by
*demanding* the comm ev they backed down somewhat. they did declare
her SP later, after she had founded the "mountain org" but i don't
believe they actually retaliated in any other way.
>this is nonsense, and i repeatedly explained why in that discussion.
i think that participation in ars is at least discouraged. but i
think that might only apply if OSA somehow feels that a poster is
"embarrassing" them with their posts or being off-policy or something.
>i know a number of sci'ts, otoh, who've checked out a.r.s. and just
>"walked away." a general, yet accurate, statement of their attitude
>about participating would be one of "what for?" or "why bother?"
i wish that wouldn't happen really. while i like fighting with them
over various issues, i don't like the environment that outright chases
them away or brands them "OSA plants" before they have even said
anything substantive.
>i also know a couple or three sci'ts -- always public, as i don't know
>anything more about staff than i might glean or speculate from a.r.s. --
>who read a.r.s. periodically to see "what's happening."
>to conclude, i've little interest and no concern about what have happned
>to think-for-yourself marc.
i don't have *that* much concern, since leaving in disgust seems
likely. but i do have interest and if it was some kind of handling
i'd like to know.
[andre discussion]
>we've had this discussion before, rob. i'd only add here that my remark
>above was an observation i considered, and continue to consider, an
>accurate representation of andre's articles to a.r.s..
we'll disagree on that. however i think we've both stated all we have
to say on the issue already at least for now.
>e
rob
Bernie
wrote:
>i don't know what you mean by a "weird handling" and we don't need
>another list of my speculations here.
>
>i've been posting for just over a year, as you know, and i've never been
>handled, weirdly or otherwise. as i wrote soon after my arrival, i
>began, and have continued, posting entirely on my own initiative and
>entirely independently.
>
>there's russ, who can speak for himself. and there was claire, who
>didn't get "handled" either, but simply left in disgust.
>
>these are the only sci'ts, public or staff, that participate/have
>participated in a.r.s. and whom i know personally.
You may not know them personally, but there was also
Whippersnapper, Tim Jones, RonsAmigo, and MiKe. Probably others
that I forget.
>and i got to know
>both russ and claire as a result of our meeting in a.r.s.. actually,
>someone who was already a friend of mine posted for a very short while
>about four years ago, but left for the same reason claire did. and
>unless i'm forgetting someone else, that's it.
>
>there was "SB" a while back, and for a while, but i didn't know him and
>i've no idea what happened with him either.
I got the feeling that SB was more of a freezoner, like Thomlove
is currently. I don't know about yourself, but Russ and Claire
clearly are not freezoner. I believe part of the reasons they
stick with the CoS is 1) because they want to make sure that what
they get is the standard tech and 2) because they want to remain
loyal to the CoS, especially in view of what they see as biased
and bigoted criticism.
>you may remember my having taken up warrior some months ago in the
>matter of public sci'ts participating in a.r.s.. warrior had been
>promoting, obnoxiously and ad nauseum, a robotic interpretation of some
>scn doctrine, to the exclusion of other scn doctrine,
I didn't follow that, but whenever you have the time to summarize
it, I would be interested to read it.
>such as the code
>you quoted yourself, and for the purpose of insisting on the false
>conclusion that a.r.s. is somehow off limits to public sci'ts.
>
>this is nonsense, and i repeatedly explained why in that discussion.
>
>i know a number of sci'ts, otoh, who've checked out a.r.s. and just
>"walked away." a general, yet accurate, statement of their attitude
>about participating would be one of "what for?" or "why bother?"
Yes. I even know a few freezoners who have the same attitude. We
have also seen ex-members who became decidedly more pro-CoS when
they started to post here, again in view of what they perceived
as bias. Of course, the public at large, who barely know anything
about Scn, is a more easy target.
>i also know a couple or three sci'ts -- always public, as i don't know
>anything more about staff than i might glean or speculate from a.r.s. --
>who read a.r.s. periodically to see "what's happening."
>
>to conclude, i've little interest and no concern about what have happned
>to think-for-yourself marc.
Same here. So far, the only person I know of who actually quit
the CoS as a result of posting to ars is Heidrun Beer, and she
still is an hardcore Scientologist, even if a freezoner. I
believe, however, that Ralph Hilton was more instrumental in that
than ars itself.
e...@some.where
ma...@bernie.us-inc.com (Bernie) wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Mar 1999 16:28:36 +0100 Enzo Piccone <en...@hermes.it>
> wrote:
> >there was "SB" a while back, and for a while, but i didn't know him and
> >i've no idea what happened with him either.
>
> I got the feeling that SB was more of a freezoner, like Thomlove
> is currently.
he was not a freezoner. but he seemed to be a reasonable person.
perhaps that is ubnusual in the cos, eh bernie? you should know.
> I don't know about yourself, but Russ and Claire
> clearly are not freezoner. I believe part of the reasons they
> stick with the CoS is 1) because they want to make sure that what
> they get is the standard tech and 2) because they want to remain
> loyal to the CoS, especially in view of what they see as biased
> and bigoted criticism.
what a hypocrite you are. the mind boggles.
> >you may remember my having taken up warrior some months ago in the
> >matter of public sci'ts participating in a.r.s.. warrior had been
> >promoting, obnoxiously and ad nauseum, a robotic interpretation of some
> >scn doctrine, to the exclusion of other scn doctrine,
>
> I didn't follow that, but whenever you have the time to summarize
> it, I would be interested to read it.
as above.
> >to conclude, i've little interest and no concern about what have happned
> >to think-for-yourself marc.
but of course, you don't enzo. i would not expect you to.
> Same here.
but here we have bernie. hypocrite.
> So far, the only person I know of who actually quit
> the CoS as a result of posting to ars is Heidrun Beer,
that's funny. i know several. perhaps it is because no one trusts you
enough to communicate with you privately, bernie. well, enzo might, but
that ain't exactly the same thing as being trusted.
> and she
> still is an hardcore Scientologist, even if a freezoner. I
> believe, however, that Ralph Hilton was more instrumental in that
> than ars itself.
not true. you hypocrite.
i really really hate liars. especially sanctimonious liars. oddly
enough, i have nothing against enzo (voila!) as he never really
misrepresents himself. well, not where it counts, anyways.
but you, bernie. you turn my stomach.
regards
ef
Bernie
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