Do caps mean shouting?
Juergen Schlegelmilch
wrote:
>There has been some disagreement between the moderators and some
>participants in comp.object.moderated as to how PHRASES IN ALL-CAPS
>will be interpreted by c.o.m readers.
It should not matter how readers interpret ALL-CAPS phrases
but what the moderation policy says about them. IIRC, it
does not mention them explicitly, and it depends on the
meaning of the phrase. If it constitutes a flame or similar
statement, reject (not because it is in ALL-CAPS), otherwise
let it pass.
I would be seriously concerned if the moderators begin to
reject articles based on their impression of what readers
might appreciate or not. BTW, I missed the [mod] marker in
the subject line.
>We would like to know if you generally read such phrases as shouting
>or emotional presentation, or whether you merely view it as emphasis.
FWIW, I find it inpolite to write whole sentences in ALL-CAPS.
IMHO It is ok to have phrases in ALL-CAPS to emphasize them although
I prefer underscores.
>Do you think the moderators would be overstepping their bounds
>by rejecting such posts?
Definitely.
Regards,
Jürgen
--
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\
Juergen Schlegelmilch
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Database Research Group
mailto:schl...@Informatik.Uni-Rostock.de
University of Rostock, Computer Science Department, 18051 Rostock,
Germany
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Rick Jones
> We would like to know if you generally read such [ALL-CAPS] phrases as
shouting > or emotional presentation, or whether you merely view it as
emphasis. >
> Where is the dividing line, where caps are clearly just being used
> for emphasis, or where there is a chance that the caps might be
> interpreted as shouting?
I think each case has to be taken in context. Writing entire sentences
or paragraphs in caps, or liberally sprinkling caps everywhere,
certainly gives an impression of ranting. However, it is clear that
some people use them for legitimate emphasis, in the same way that
others emphasise with underscores or asterisks. It should be clear from
reading the article what the intent is. I don't think caps PER-SE are
offensive any more than other forms of emphasis.
> Also, what is lost if the moderators make a general habit of
> rejecting posts using phrases in all-caps? Would c.o.m authors
> lose a great deal of expressiveness in their writing? Would
> you find it difficult to make your point without using caps?
My habit is to use underscores, but I would like to feel free to use
caps if I chose.
> Do you think the moderators would be overstepping their bounds
> by rejecting such posts?
If the _way_ in which the caps are used is offensive, then the post
should be rejected, but not simply because caps have been used. Unless
the moderation policy explicitly prescribes an acceptable emphasis
style, then rejecting purely for the presence of caps is excessive.
Such a prescription would be overstepping the bounds of a reasonable
moderation policy too, IMO!
--
- Rick Jones Rick....@REMOVE.tetraworld.com
- Using OUI 1.9 Beta 6 from http://www.peaktopeak.com
Jeroen C. van Gelderen
>We would like to know if you generally read such phrases as shouting
>or emotional presentation, or whether you merely view it as emphasis.
Yes. I read those phrases as shouting. Common netiquette says it's
shouting.
If one wants emphasis, one can use underscores or asterisks.
>Where is the dividing line, where caps are clearly just being used
>for emphasis, or where there is a chance that the caps might be
>interpreted as shouting?
IMHO A single word, maybe two is acceptable. A complete sentence is not.
>Also, what is lost if the moderators make a general habit of
>rejecting posts using phrases in all-caps? Would c.o.m authors
>lose a great deal of expressiveness in their writing? Would
>you find it difficult to make your point without using caps?
Please go ahead and reject whatever contains too much caps. 'Too much',
of
course, needs to be defined before you start rejecting.
>Do you think the moderators would be overstepping their bounds
>by rejecting such posts?
*No*!
Cheers,
Jeroen
--
Jeroen C. van Gelderen -- ide...@mediaport.org -- &[8-D}~<=
Thaddeus L. Olczyk
On 19 Jan 1999 02:12:05 GMT, doy...@ecf.toronto.edu (Patrick Doyle)
wrote:
>There has been some disagreement between the moderators and some
>participants in comp.object.moderated as to how PHRASES IN ALL-CAPS
>will be interpreted by c.o.m readers.
Generally it means the writer hit the caps-lock key by mistake.
>
>We would like to know if you generally read such phrases as shouting
>or emotional presentation, or whether you merely view it as emphasis.
>
>Where is the dividing line, where caps are clearly just being used
>for emphasis, or where there is a chance that the caps might be
>interpreted as shouting?
>
>Also, what is lost if the moderators make a general habit of
>rejecting posts using phrases in all-caps? Would c.o.m authors
>lose a great deal of expressiveness in their writing? Would
>you find it difficult to make your point without using caps?
>
>Do you think the moderators would be overstepping their bounds
>by rejecting such posts?
>
Rejecting an article just because someone typed a ( possibly very
small) using all caps is stupid. Now if there were other reasons...
john-...@hlp.com
doy...@ecf.toronto.edu (Patrick Doyle) wrote:
> There has been some disagreement between the moderators and some
> participants in comp.object.moderated as to how PHRASES IN ALL-CAPS
> will be interpreted by c.o.m readers.
>
>
> Do you think the moderators would be overstepping their bounds
> by rejecting such posts?
>
Yes.
Cheers,
John
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Brad Appleton
doy...@ecf.toronto.edu (Patrick Doyle) writes:
>There has been some disagreement between the moderators and some
>participants in comp.object.moderated as to how PHRASES IN ALL-CAPS
>will be interpreted by c.o.m readers.
>
>or emotional presentation, or whether you merely view it as emphasis.
Depends on which words are in caps, and how many in a row.
>Where is the dividing line, where caps are clearly just being used
>for emphasis, or where there is a chance that the caps might be
>interpreted as shouting?
I tend to use (and interpret) caps no differently from how I would
interpret boldface in HTML. The text-emphasis conventions I am most
familiar with, and the way they translate to "richer" text format is
as follows:
_underscores_ ==> underlined text
*asterisks* ==> italicized text
ALL UPPERCASE ==> boldface text
I would consider caps to be shouting in the same places I would
consider boldface to be shouting: entire sentences or phrases (or most
things more than 4-5 words in a row), or perhaps key "juicy" words. But
even then, it still depends on the actual words being capitalized. The
interpreation of all caps as shouting grew from the use of caps as
emphasis, and using that emphasis in certain ways (with caps or
boldface) comes across as shouting.
Basically, the caps strengthen the sentiment of the uppercase words.
If the words themselves don't express any voluminous sentiment or
disagreement, then I don't interpret uppercasing them as shouting; just
extra emphasis to pay attention to those words, perhaps more than
others in the sentence, or as a visual cue to help me "chunk up" the
text within the paragraph.
But I would not interpret all caps as shouting if it appeared
equivalent to where one would use boldface for things like: terms or
terminology, section or paragraph headings, disclaimers and notices
(e.g. "DISCLAIMER: ..." or "NOTE: ..." or "PLEASE NOTE: ..."), and
perhaps key modifiers like "NOT" (but that depends on context too).
The "Netiquette rule" about caps as shouting refers to (most by
example) to complete articles, paragraphs, sentences, and clauses; and
not so much to individual words or terms or concepts. IMHO, if there
are people out there with the impression that all caps ALWAYS means
shouting, then we need to let them know that is not the case. But
I don't think it would be right to refrain from caps altogether because
of folks that had the misfortune of having only ever seen them used for
more inflammatory statements. They serve many good non-inflammatory
uses that I would not be amenable to throwing out along with the abuses.
>Also, what is lost if the moderators make a general habit of
>rejecting posts using phrases in all-caps? Would c.o.m authors
>lose a great deal of expressiveness in their writing? Would
>you find it difficult to make your point without using caps?
Difficult to make the point? Not necessarily, it really depends on the
point being made IMHO. But difficult to express the point in the way
that seems most clear and most satisfactorily articulate to *me*? I
think I would lose a VERY great deal indeed! (:-).
I don't necessarily have to use them all the time; but I wouldn't want to
be denied the ability to use them when I feel it best expresses the
desired emphasis (non-flammable of course ;-).
>Do you think the moderators would be overstepping their bounds
>by rejecting such posts?
I feel it would be *way* overstepping the bounds of moderation.
--
Brad Appleton <bra...@enteract.com> | http://www.enteract.com/~bradapp/
"And miles to go before I sleep." | 3700+ WWW links on CS & Sw-Eng
Dave Harris
> Do you think the moderators would be overstepping their bounds
> by rejecting such posts?
Yes.
Dave Harris, Nottingham, UK | "Weave a circle round him thrice,
bran...@cix.co.uk | And close your eyes with holy dread,
| For he on honey dew hath fed
http://www.bhresearch.co.uk/ | And drunk the milk of Paradise."
Hans Aberg
>There has been some disagreement between the moderators and some
>participants in comp.object.moderated as to how PHRASES IN ALL-CAPS
>will be interpreted by c.o.m readers.
>
>We would like to know if you generally read such phrases as shouting
>or emotional presentation, or whether you merely view it as emphasis.
>
>Where is the dividing line, where caps are clearly just being used
>for emphasis, or where there is a chance that the caps might be
>interpreted as shouting?
I have looked through some of the posts, and they have already said most
aspects I can think of. But I have followed the LaTeX3 mailing list for a
couple years, and I can say how it works in traditional math typesetting:
So in traditional math typesetting, in the days one used led, one used
merely what was available in that medium, lead typesetting. For example,
underline did not exist, so a text simply underlined would be translated
into italics, and a doubly underlined would be translated into bold.
Later, new typeface styles were coming into use, so one could use a
special color to mean say bold italics, and so on.
When it comes to using all-caps, it is a bad habit because it is harder
for the reader to read: Small case letters are designed to be easier to
read, that is why one is using them (one reads whole words and small case
letters make the letters flow together in words). So from that point of
view, all-caps is a bad habit; this is perhaps why some people think of
all caps as being "screamy".
It is better to _use_underline_ or *perhaps asteriscs* for emphasis. How
this markup up should be interpreted in terms of typeface style
(italics/boldface) is another matter.
>Also, what is lost if the moderators make a general habit of
>rejecting posts using phrases in all-caps? Would c.o.m authors
>lose a great deal of expressiveness in their writing? Would
>you find it difficult to make your point without using caps?
>
>Do you think the moderators would be overstepping their bounds
>by rejecting such posts?
One simple way is to reject all-caps used for emphasis due to poor
readability, and suggest the user to use underline or asterics.
My guess is that soon enough people will switch to a protocol allowing
italics/boldface markup, and then the question will be irrelevant because
of that.
Hans Aberg * Anti-spam: Remove "REMOVE." from email address.
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