Kleinman count
Phill Skelton
Bower in some postings to rgb a while back. Does anyone have
the details of the full Kleinman count (rather than the abridged
version posted by Chuck), or am I going to have to try and find
a copy of Kleinman's book. Which one of his books is it in?
Thanks
Phill
André Nicoulin
I am not sure if you refer to the Kleinman formula to estimate cubeless
winning chances in race based on normal distribution theory. If it is the
case, here is a brief description. It comes from the help section of Snowie
Professional version 1.1 (Under preparation, mainly a patch of V1.0)
André Nicoulin, Oasya.
The Kleinman Rule
In match play, the score will strongly affect the value of the take points.
Hence you need in this case a more precise formula, which will provide you a
probability of winning the race. In "Vision Laugh at Counting" (1992), Dany
Kleinman develops such a formula. His formula is based on a concept very
familiar to statisticians named normal distributions. The rule is expressed
has follows.
Compute the player pipcount, and decrease it by 4 for taking into account
the fact that he is on roll. This leads to the corrected player pipcount P.
Compute the opponent pipcount as usual, O.
Compute the difference D equal to O minus P. It represents the lead in the
race of P over O.
Compute the sum S equal to O + P. It represents the total length of the
race.
Compute the Kleinman metric D * D / S, i.e. D square over S.
You then have to compare the Kleinman metric with reference figures in order
to know the winning chances of the opponent:
Winning chances
of the opponent 17% 20% 21% 22% 24% 25% 30%
Kleinman metric 1.8 1.4 1.3 1.2 1.0 0.9 0.55
A more detailed table can be found in in "Fascinating Backgammon, Antonio
Ortega, second edition,1994. A description of how you reach this formula can
be found in "Vision Laugh ...", Dany Kleinman.
Phill Skelton a écrit dans le message <35EE99...@sun.leeds.ac.uk>...
Jakob Lřvschall
> You then have to compare the Kleinman metric with reference figures in
order
> to know the winning chances of the opponent:
>
> Winning chances
> of the opponent 17% 20% 21% 22% 24% 25% 30%
>
> Kleinman metric 1.8 1.4 1.3 1.2 1.0 0.9 0.55
>
> A more detailed table can be found in in "Fascinating Backgammon, Antonio
> Ortega, second edition,1994. A description of how you reach this formula
can
> be found in "Vision Laugh ...", Dany Kleinman.
>
>
Would anybody with access to this book care to publish the entire table?
/Bevs
Chuck Bower
Jakob Lřvschall <be...@vip.cybercity.dk> wrote:
>(snip Kleinman Rule)
(some NOW unknown poster had said:)
>> A more detailed table can be found in in "Fascinating Backgammon, Antonio
>> Ortega, second edition,1994. A description of how you reach this formula
>> can be found in "Vision Laugh ...", Dany Kleinman.
>
>Would anybody with access to this book care to publish the entire table?
I think there is a fuzzy line when posting previously written (and
copyrighted) material on this newsgroup. Both of these books are currently
available in new condition. (see Backgammon Deli on the WWW or write to
Carol Joy Cole: c...@flint.org.) They are both good books and, IMO, worth
the asking prices.
Chuck
bo...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu
c_ray on FIBS
flash
<be...@vip.cybercity.dk> wrote:
> (snip Kleinman Rule)
>
> > You then have to compare the Kleinman metric with reference figures in
> order
> > to know the winning chances of the opponent:
> >
> > Winning chances
> > of the opponent 17% 20% 21% 22% 24% 25% 30%
> >
> > Kleinman metric 1.8 1.4 1.3 1.2 1.0 0.9 0.55
> >
> > A more detailed table can be found in in "Fascinating Backgammon, Antonio
> > Ortega, second edition,1994. A description of how you reach this formula
> can
> > be found in "Vision Laugh ...", Dany Kleinman.
> >
> >
>
> Would anybody with access to this book care to publish the entire table?
>
> /Bevs
INTERPOLATION will render reasonably accurate results - except at the
extremes - where it is pointless anyway.
The important thing to learn is to adjust for differences in distribution
accurately.
This is harder than one may think.
Also it is important for newbies to remember that the metric MUST be
adjusted for match score !!!
--
"All of Life is 6 to 5 against." . . . Damon Runyan
Harald Retter
Chuck Bower schrieb in Nachricht <6t3dcr$f6c$1...@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>...
>In article <01bdd88d$f0f94be0$LocalHost@jakob>,
Antonio
>>> Ortega, second edition,1994. A description of how you reach this formula
>>> can be found in "Vision Laugh ...", Dany Kleinman.
>>
>
>>Would anybody with access to this book care to publish the entire table?
>
>copyrighted) material on this newsgroup. Both of these books are currently
>available in new condition. (see Backgammon Deli on the WWW or write to
>Carol Joy Cole: c...@flint.org.) They are both good books and, IMO, worth
>the asking prices.
>
>
>
> Chuck
> bo...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu
> c_ray on FIBS
>
As far as I know "Fascinating Backgammon" is no more available in
English, only in Spanish.
In "Vision laughs at counting" (at least in the version I have) you
will only find the "Basic"-Kleinman-count, not adjusted to gaps,
crossovers etc.
Over the years the KC has mad a kind of evolutionary process and I
have no idea, where to find the current version. Any hint?
Regards, Harald Retter
Chuck Bower
Harald Retter <harald...@okay.net> wrote:
>
>Chuck Bower schrieb in Nachricht <6t3dcr$f6c$1...@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>...
>>In article <01bdd88d$f0f94be0$LocalHost@jakob>,
>>Jakob Løvschall <be...@vip.cybercity.dk> wrote:
>>
>>>(snip Kleinman Rule)
>>
>> (some NOW unknown poster had said:)
>>>> A more detailed table can be found in in "Fascinating Backgammon,
>Antonio
>>>> Ortega, second edition,1994. A description of how you reach this formula
>>>> can be found in "Vision Laugh ...", Dany Kleinman.
>>>
>>
>>>Would anybody with access to this book care to publish the entire table?
>>
>> I think there is a fuzzy line when posting previously written (and
>>copyrighted) material on this newsgroup. Both of these books are currently
>>available in new condition. (see Backgammon Deli on the WWW or write to
>>Carol Joy Cole: c...@flint.org.) They are both good books and, IMO, worth
>>the asking prices.
>As far as I know "Fascinating Backgammon" is no more available in
>English, only in Spanish.
OK, in that case mine is for sale at double the cover price. ;)
Sorry for the misinformation. Actually, now that I think about it, I'm
pretty sure that Jakob was asking for the COMPLETE coversion table which
isn't in Ortega's "Fascinating BG" anyway.
>In "Vision laughs at counting" (at least in the version I have) you
>will only find the "Basic"-Kleinman-count, not adjusted to gaps,
>crossovers etc.
>Over the years the KC has mad a kind of evolutionary process and I
>have no idea, where to find the current version. Any hint?
I ,too, am unsure as to whether the most up-to-date Kleinman method is
concisely written up anywhere. I also would like to know where it is, if
such exists. The Kleinman method is covered in at least THREE of his works,
maybe more. I think one of them is "Only the Hogs...", but I'm not
sure. I'll look into it more deeply if no one can come up with the
answer in a few days.
Chuck Bower
Jakob Lřvschall <be...@vip.cybercity.dk> wrote:
>(snip Kleinman Rule)
>
>> You then have to compare the Kleinman metric with reference figures in order
>> to know the winning chances of the opponent:
>>
>> Winning chances
>> of the opponent 17% 20% 21% 22% 24% 25% 30%
>>
>> Kleinman metric 1.8 1.4 1.3 1.2 1.0 0.9 0.55
>>
>> A more detailed table can be found in in "Fascinating Backgammon, Antonio
>> Ortega, second edition,1994. A description of how you reach this formula can
>> be found in "Vision Laugh ...", Dany Kleinman.
>
>Would anybody with access to this book care to publish the entire table?
If you have dejanews, look for my post dated 1998/03/25 under the
subject "Re: Is this a take?" I give a formula which allows you to
reproduce the Kleinman Count. The algorithm I give there reproduces
Kleinman's conversion table to better than 1% at all values. And I don't
think you need to worry about copyrights here. ;)