why does JF reject?
Ernst M. Morak
Hi rec.games.backgammon!
In a 9 point mach against JF level 5 JF was leading 8:3.
The next game startet with a 5,1 for me (13-8 / 24-23)
JF rolled a 5,3 and moved 17-22 / 19-22.
JF had 8 points so I doubled - and JF rejected.
Why? Was his following 5, 3 really so bad?
Experts asked for help.
Thanks in advance
bye Ernst
------------------------------
Ernst MORAK
Country: Austria
City: Graz
e.m...@magnet.at
--- OffRoad 1.9v registered to Ernst Morak
Chuck Bower
In article <msg598.thr-2...@magnet.at>,
Ernst M. Morak <e.m...@magnet.at> wrote:
>Hi rec.games.backgammon!
>In a 9 point mach against JF level 5 JF was leading 8:3. The next
>game startet with a 5,1 for me (13-8 / 24-23) JF rolled a 5,3 and
>moved 17-22 / 19-22. JF had 8 points so I doubled - and JF rejected.
>Why? Was his following 5, 3 really so bad?
Yes! What Jellyfish did here was exercise its "free drop". To
understand this, note that you need six points to win the match, and
that your points will always come in multiples of two (assuming you
double ASAP and JF takes) with one exception--a case similar to what
JF faced here.
If the score were 8:4 post Crawford, you would need five points
to win, BUT you only get points in multiples of 2, so that means you
really need six points. Hey, that is the case at 8:3! So at 8:3, JF
can pass "for free" and you haven't gained anything--you started that
game needing six points and after JF drops you still need six points
to win the match.
So, should JF ALWAYS pass at this score? No, only when things
start poorly. But "poorly" needs to be defined. Now I have a dilemma
because I'm in the midst of writing an Inside Backgammon article
which describes free drops in detail. But, I guess I could give
an "enticing" preview...
Here is a simple rule of thumb, which isn't 100% accurate (that
you must read the article to get) but isn't far off and is easy to
remember:
Playing an equal opponent (and we're in trouble already!), the leader
in a post Crawford game whose opponent is at an even-away score and
who is presented with a cube at the FIRST AVAILABLE OPPORTUNITY
should perform as follows:
1) If leader wins the opening roll (and trailer then doubles), take.
2) If trailer wins the opening roll, leader will have a take under
the following conditions:
a) leader hits anywhere on his/her 9-23 points,
b) leader rolls any doublet or 31.
Otherwise, pass.
If newsgroup readers choose to go after the "exceptions" to these
"rules", I welcome it. But I'm saving the rest for my article!
Chuck
bo...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu
c_ray on FIBS
Dean Gay
On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:55:49 +0100, e.m...@magnet.at (Ernst M. Morak)
wrote:
:Hi rec.games.backgammon!=20
:=20
:In a 9 point mach against JF level 5 JF was leading 8:3.=20
:The next game startet with a 5,1 for me (13-8 / 24-23)=20
:JF rolled a 5,3 and moved 17-22 / 19-22.=20
:JF had 8 points so I doubled - and JF rejected.=20
:Why? Was his following 5, 3 really so bad?=20
:Experts asked for help.=20
:Thanks in advance =20
:bye Ernst=20
:------------------------------=20
:Ernst MORAK=20
:Country: Austria=20
:City: Graz=20
:e.m...@magnet.at=20
:=20
:=20
:--- OffRoad 1.9v registered to Ernst Morak=20
I don't have an answer to your question (I'm still trying to figure
that stuff out myself), but I wanted to point out that every line in
your post ends with a "=20". I assume that this is the result of a
mistranslated "carriage return/line feed". I'm not sure how to fix
it, but I thought I'd point it out in case you weren't aware of it and
wanted to look into it. It's a small thing, but it makes the post
more difficult to read.
Chuck Bower
In article <69llns$hqf$1...@jetsam.uits.indiana.edu>,
Chuck Bower <bo...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu> wrote:
(snip)
>Playing an equal opponent (and we're in trouble already!), the leader
>in a post Crawford game whose opponent is at an even-away score and
>who is presented with a cube at the FIRST AVAILABLE OPPORTUNITY
>should perform as follows:
>
>1) If leader wins the opening roll (and trailer then doubles), take.
>2) If trailer wins the opening roll, leader will have a take under
> the following conditions:
>
> a) leader hits anywhere on his/her 9-23 points,
> b) leader rolls any doublet or 31.
>
>Otherwise, pass.
(snip)
Actually, I forgot one very important part c) to point #2:
c) point on your opponent's head ANYWHERE (then take).
Lars S"oz"uer
John Goodwin wrote:
>
> On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:22:39 GMT, d...@pacificnet.net (Dean Gay) wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:55:49 +0100, e.m...@magnet.at (Ernst M. Morak)
> >wrote:
> >
> >:Hi rec.games.backgammon!=20
> >:=20
> Doesn't anyone else find it an annoyance, or are they all like me,
> waiting for someone else to say something first ?
My news reader (netscape 3.0 for Linux)
did not display these annoying "=20"s.
sencay
--
Lars S"oz"uer |Tel.: +49-9131-33351 private |On FIBS: sencay
Schornbaumstr. 4 | -85-7066 office |(pronounced Shendzhay)
D-91052 Erlangen |FAX: -15249 |WBF_code: none
Germany |e-mail: Lars.S...@physik.uni-erlangen.de
Web Site: http://try.physik.uni-erlangen.de/~soezueer
John Goodwin
On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:22:39 GMT, d...@pacificnet.net (Dean Gay) wrote:
>On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:55:49 +0100, e.m...@magnet.at (Ernst M. Morak)
>wrote:
>
>:Hi rec.games.backgammon!=20
>:=20
>:In a 9 point mach against JF level 5 JF was leading 8:3.=20
>:The next game startet with a 5,1 for me (13-8 / 24-23)=20
>:JF rolled a 5,3 and moved 17-22 / 19-22.=20
>:JF had 8 points so I doubled - and JF rejected.=20
>:Why? Was his following 5, 3 really so bad?=20
>:Experts asked for help.=20
>:Thanks in advance =20
>:bye Ernst=20
>:------------------------------=20
>:Ernst MORAK=20
>:Country: Austria=20
>:City: Graz=20
>:e.m...@magnet.at=20
>:=20
>:=20
>:--- OffRoad 1.9v registered to Ernst Morak=20
>
>
>I don't have an answer to your question (I'm still trying to figure
>that stuff out myself), but I wanted to point out that every line in
>your post ends with a "=20". I assume that this is the result of a
>mistranslated "carriage return/line feed". I'm not sure how to fix
>it, but I thought I'd point it out in case you weren't aware of it and
>wanted to look into it. It's a small thing, but it makes the post
>more difficult to read.
I'm glad that at last someone else has mentioned this.
It happens quite often, and some times makes an article almost
impossible to read.
The weird thing is: Nobody's ever mentioned it (that I've seen) until
this article.
I must have seen hundreds of articles (it's caused by people sending
their messages as mime), but until now, never a word.
Doesn't anyone else find it an annoyance, or are they all like me,
waiting for someone else to say something first ?
J.G.
Morten Wang
* Dean Gay
| I don't have an answer to your question (I'm still trying to figure
| that stuff out myself), but I wanted to point out that every line in
| your post ends with a "=20". I assume that this is the result of a
| mistranslated "carriage return/line feed". I'm not sure how to fix
| it, but I thought I'd point it out in case you weren't aware of it and
| wanted to look into it. It's a small thing, but it makes the post
| more difficult to read.
this is due to the fact that the poster is using Quoted-Printable
encoding of his article (also known as "Quoted-Unreadable" which is
easily understood if you see an article with many 8-bit characters).
for a thing like this to happen two things must be set:
1: the poster must use Q-P
2: the reader must have a news program that doesn't understand, or
doesn't translate Q-P
I see that you're using Forté Agent which as far as I've understood
can be set up to translate Q-P for you. a search in the help should
give you the correct answer.
I do not know whether Q-P is kosher in the Big 8 or not (no, I haven't
read news.announce.newusers), but in the Norwegian part of Usenet it
is not. I've noticed that most of all newsreaders have the
possibility to translate Q-P (my Gnus 5.5 does this), so it should be
easy to make articles readable. this does not mean that Q-P is
kosher, though.
maybe this should be put in the rgb FAQ or something? (maybe I should
(not) volunteer to update that FAQ ;)
Morten!
--
"God does not deduct from our alloted life span
the time spent playing backgammon."
--> Morty on FIBS
--> Backgammon homepage: http://home.sol.no/~warnckew/gammon/
Hank Youngerman
It seems to me that Chuck has missed one important point.
Say you are leading 98-97, match to 99. You should now drop ANY
position in which your opponent is the favorite to win. If you are
49.9% to win the game, drop, because you can get to 50% by restarting.
Now, say you are leading 98-1, match to 99. Opponent opens with 4-2,
makes his 4-point, you return with 6-4. You're not in great shape.
But you get ONE free drop. You have about 40 games to go, allowing
for gammons. In one of those 40 games, your opponent rates to get a
better opening - either a 3-1, or a 4-2 or 6-1 with a worse return on
your part. So you want to save your free drop.
Of course, you're not going to get into situations where you are
leading 98-1. But when you have more than one game to go, you might
want to save the free drop if it's marginal. The more games to go,
the more likely it is that a situation will come up later where the
free drop is more valuable. I know that some players will drop after
they roll an opening 2-1 or 5-1; I happen to agree that you should
take anytime you've gotten the opening roll. But surely you should
take after you get the first move if you have another game to play.
Won't you feel REALLY stupid if you drop and then your opponent starts
next game with 3-1?
Chuck Bower
In article <34c19e58...@news.mindspring.com>,
Hank Youngerman <hankyou...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>It seems to me that Chuck has missed one important point.
Well, I didn't really miss it. I was just trying to save
SOMETHING for my upcoming article!
>Say you are leading 98-97, match to 99. You should now drop ANY
>position in which your opponent is the favorite to win. If you are
>49.9% to win the game, drop, because you can get to 50% by restarting.
>
>Now, say you are leading 98-1, match to 99. Opponent opens with 4-2,
>makes his 4-point, you return with 6-4. You're not in great shape.
>But you get ONE free drop. You have about 40 games to go, allowing
>for gammons. In one of those 40 games, your opponent rates to get a
>better opening - either a 3-1, or a 4-2 or 6-1 with a worse return on
>your part. So you want to save your free drop.
>
>Of course, you're not going to get into situations where you are
>leading 98-1.
True. Although TRAILING 98-1, I can certainly imagine that!
>But when you have more than one game to go, you might
>want to save the free drop if it's marginal. The more games to go,
>the more likely it is that a situation will come up later where the
>free drop is more valuable. I know that some players will drop after
>they roll an opening 2-1 or 5-1; I happen to agree that you should
>take anytime you've gotten the opening roll. But surely you should
>take after you get the first move if you have another game to play.
>Won't you feel REALLY stupid if you drop and then your opponent starts
>next game with 3-1?
Or maybe you'd feel REALLY smart if YOU opened with 31! At BG
you must weigh ALL the possible outcomes, not just the ones which
make your argument look strong...
Hank makes a good point, though. When should a player "bank"
the free drop for later use? In the article I'm working on, I will
cover both the 2-away 1-away and 4-away, 1-away free drop situations.
It is safe to say that these are the most common. It might take a
few sequels until I work my way down to 98-away, 1-away...
Ernst M. Morak
Ernst M. Morak wrote at 16:55 on 15.01.98
to rec.games.backgammon about "why does JF reject?":
-----------------------------
first, I'd like 2 apologize that some people seem 2 have probs in
reading my mails due to MIME decoding or whatever else. I'm working on
that.
Second - thanks 4 the replies. I've got the point now.
Third - bye and meet U on Netgammon as ernst 4