[DS9] Lynch's Spoiler Review: "Rocks and Shoals"
Timothy W. Lynch
WARNING: Spoilers for DS9's "Rocks and Shoals" lurk around
every corner.
In brief: Another strong offering, though again the station-side part is
the strongest.
======
Written by: Ronald D. Moore
Directed by: Michael Vejar
Brief summary: Sisko and his crew are marooned on a deserted
world, with only a wounded Vorta and ten Jem'Hadar for company --
and Kira starts questioning her position in the Cardassian/Dominion
"new order".
======
You know, I'm starting to wonder if six episodes are going to be
*enough* to really cover all the ground this Federation/Dominion war
is opening. So far, the first two episodes have opened some very
interesting doors and asked some very interesting questions -- and
while any move to a more extended format strikes me as a huge
improvement over "take the station back in a single show," I'm
hoping the sixth episode of the season doesn't turn into a huge "sweep
it all under the rug" festival, as that would be equally or even more
annoying.
But, that's a worry for a few weeks down the line; let's take care of
this week. "Rocks and Shoals" had an awful lot to recommend it -- if
"A Time to Stand" made the war stand out as a pretty bleak time to be
living in, "Rocks and Shoals" basically made things seem even worse
in a few areas, particularly on the station. As before, the advertised
"A" plot was actually the less compelling of the two (and based on the
preview for "Sons and Daughters", we may have a third example
coming right up) -- but this time, the "A" story was far more
interesting than last time, and with far fewer questionable moments.
Based on the preview (Sisko and company stranded with ten
Jem'Hadar), I rather expected "Rocks and Shoals" to be "The Ship,
Mark 2" in a lot of ways. Instead, I got something that was both
weaker and stronger. "Rocks and Shoals" didn't ooze so much
tension that the crew was about to come to blows with each other, but
what it *did* do was give us a Jem'Hadar character who was actually
interesting, namely Third Remata'klan.
A year and a half ago, in "To the Death", we were told that the
genetically engineered loyalty of the Jem'Hadar wasn't all it was
cracked up to be. However, we weren't really given any reason to
care or to agree with it -- we were just *told* it, flat-out. "Rocks and
Shoals" told us far more, and did it by showing us: we got to see,
mostly through Remata'klan and Sisko's attempts to turn him against
Keevan, that the Jem'Hadar often know full well when they're being
misused, but that it rarely manages to do much good. As Remata'klan
says, there's no need for the Founders and the Vorta to earn
Jem'Hadar loyalty; they always have it. That tends to lessen any
hopes Sisko and company might have about turning the tide of war by
breaking those ties, and finally seems to have strengthened the
Jem'Hadar as characters. For the most part, they're still "bad guys
who are just bad", but we're seeing more and more cases where
individual Jem'Hadar can be interesting.
The overall structure of the story, with the Vorta basically playing
both sides against the middle, was certainly solid enough; the Vorta
have always seemed to be the sleaziest part of the Dominion, with "all
the moral fiber of Jack the Ripper" [to swipe a quote from another SF
series], and Keevan's willingness to sacrifice his men so that he could
live on was certainly plausible. The ending, with the Jem'Hadar
nobly running into certain death followed by Keevan strolling through
the carnage with an annoyingly superior smirk on his face, was really
powerful -- and were I in Sisko's position, I don't know if I'd have
struggled quite so hard to avoid shooting Keevan down.
There were a couple of questionable moments in that plot, but nothing
too worrisome. For one, I thought Garak gave up his web of lies
*way* too easily under the circumstances; there were plenty of good
"explanations" for why he had a Starfleet combadge, and I was a little
surprised he didn't use them. (Nog's presence mitigates that a bit, as
he's even in a Starfleet uniform, so perhaps Garak just decided it
wasn't worth the pretense.)
The other plot point that I thought was, if not questionable, certainly
unnecessary, was the wounding of Dax. Unless this is being used to
set something up an episode or three down the line (which,
nowadays, seems possible), it struck me as completely superfluous to
the episode at hand; there was no time pressure created by it to force
them to escape, and there was no particular moment Dax's presence
would have spoiled (a la any TNG episode without Troi where a
reasonable empath would have ended the story half an hour early).
Were it not for the presence of Lieutenant Neeley, I'd have almost
speculated if Dax were taken out to make the story purely a "guy
thing"; as it is, the whole wounding of Dax felt a little ... well,
inexplicable. If this sets something up later, I'll have to go back and
look at it again; as it is, that part didn't impress me.
What did impress me, as is often the case, was all the little touches we
saw during the story. Garak's "Cadet, this is no time to lie down on
the job" was something I could have taken or left, but the Garak/Nog
confrontation about "that unfortunate incident" late last season (in the
forgettable "Empok Nor") rang very true, as did the laughter about
O'Brien ripping his pants, Bashir's evaluation of Keevan ("you ...
ARE alive"), and the general sense of gallows humor surrounding
much of the story. Those little touches are often discounted, but they
go a long way towards making these characters people rather than
playthings, and are quite valuable.
That leaves the other half of the show -- and for the second week in a
row, the side of the episode set on the station proved more interesting.
We've had plenty of "wartime" shows like the "A" stories of the past
two weeks -- desperate missions, last stands, soldier-to-soldier
camaraderie, etc. -- and if we toss in other shows, genre or not,
they're in many ways a common sight. What is *not* common is to
see the Cardassian/Dominion occupation in action, and to see what the
defeated (excuse me; forcibly "allied") people have to live with, day
after day. That's a far rarer sight, and in a lot of ways a far more
interesting one. After all, we know Sisko and company will
eventually get off the planet and the war will be one; but we don't
know whether Kira will be able to live with herself afterwards, or
what's going to become of Jake. There's a far greater sense of
uncertainty in that half of the story, and that's giving us a lot to chew
on.
Kira's plight this week was, in some ways, even more chilling than
her scene with Dukat last week. The feeling of powerlessness she had
last week is a pretty terrible one -- but in many ways, couldn't you
argue that it's even worse to see yourself doing things you used to
despise seeing others do? Her situation here recalled Sisko's
statement back in the first season that Kira was "on the other side
now" -- only this time, the "other side" is really the enemy, and Kira
mostly realized it for herself. Kira's guilt over sleeping in a
comfortable bed and eating regular meals while "half the Alpha
Quadrant is out there right now fighting for my freedom" is exactly the
sort of guilt she *should* be feeling right now, and it's a pleasure to
see it being addressed. The challenge for her now is to fight back
without doing it too openly, and I'm curious to see how that works
out.
And then there's Jake, poor man. This week, we mostly saw him as a
catalyst rather than as a character, but the fact that Kira and Odo are
getting less and less willing to talk to him has got to be hard on him. I
still think he's got difficult times ahead, and may well end up writing
propaganda for the Dominion while convincing himself he's "getting
the story out" -- but for now, all any of us can do is wait and see.
I don't often mention the direction explicitly, but in this case I think
Michael Vejar deserves special praise. His past DS9 work, in "The
Darkness and the Light" and "Empok Nor", oozed atmosphere, but it
was mostly atmosphere for atmosphere's sake. This time, he had a lot
more to do, and he did it; we got some striking deja vu sequences in
Kira's start of the day, a lot of good location shooting, and several
effective uses of slow motion (particularly in Vedek Yassim's suicide,
though the Jem'Hadar suicide run was appropriate as well). While
I've often said that the best directors are the ones you *don't* notice,
Vejar was so strikingly and effectively different in this case that I
thought it was worth pointing out.
All in all, then, "Rocks and Shoals" was a good, solid show with very
few false notes. Some shorter points:
-- The FX shot of the wounded Jem'Hadar ship heading down to the
planet was really pretty, though I would've liked to have seen exactly
what Garak saw as well.
-- The fact that Jem'Hadar eventually become unable to camouflage
themselves when sufficiently weakened is an interesting little piece of
information.
-- I do wonder how exactly Sisko and company expect to get home
now. Yes, they've got a communications system -- but they're still in
enemy territory. Besides, I wouldn't put it past Keevan to rig the
thing to only send Dominion-frequency signals.
-- Speaking of which, I particularly liked Keevan's allusions to
Starfleet engineers being able to "turn rocks into replicators". It's
good to see that there's *something* which impresses the Dominion.
-- Yassim's suicide really took me by surprise, and was extremely
effective. It's also interesting that we saw her hang herself in the
Promenade; she's not the first Bajoran religious figure to do so, and
the previous time also involved collaboration with an occupying
force...
-- This week had not one, but two episodes of "Life Imitates Art?"
First off, there's been a great deal in the news lately about one of the
reasonably high-up bureaucrats from the Vichy France regime finally
being brought into court after more than fifty years -- which has
certain echoes to Kira's referring to herself as a collaborator. More
strikingly, this episode saw the debut (and departure) of Vedek
Yassim, one of Bajor's spiritual leaders ... just as a Sheik Abdel
_Yassin_, one of the spiritual leaders of Hamas, was released from
prison. Given that the episode was finished quite some time ago, the
timeliness is rather eerie.
That should do it. While neither episode of DS9's arc this season has
been perfect, they're two for two on delivering really solid work. I
hope the rest of the story plays out as well.
So, wrapping up:
Writing: Some slightly questionable moments and actions, but no
punches pulled.
Directing: Very striking, and very welcome.
Acting: Even the Jem'Hadar worked out well this time; no
complaints.
OVERALL: 9.5; good work.
NEXT WEEK:
We get to see what Worf's been up to, and he finds out what his son's
been up to...
Tim Lynch (Harvard-Westlake School, Science Dept.)
tly...@alumni.caltech.edu <*>
"Half the Alpha Quadrant is out there right now, fighting for my
freedom, but not me. What am I doing? I'm eating a full meal every
day, sleeping in a soft bed, even write reports for the murderers who
run this station."
-- Kira
--
Copyright 1997, Timothy W. Lynch. All rights reserved, but feel free to ask...
This article is explicitly prohibited from being used in any off-net
compilation without due attribution and *express written consent of the
author*. Walnut Creek and other CD-ROM distributors, take note.
Helen Rapozo
On 13 Oct 1997, Lasher wrote:
> jse...@ime.net wrote in article <61rp3a$m7m$1...@news.ime.net>...
> > Timothy W. Lynch (tly...@alumnae.caltech.edu) wrote:
> > : WARNING: Spoilers for DS9's "Rocks and Shoals" lurk around
> > : every corner.
> >
> > Scary thought, especially as this arc started (if you can find a
> > definite starting point) in "A Time To Stand" in a busy manner, with
> > nearly every recurring and regular character being crammed into a
> > situation where everything was going to hell at once. And we haven't
> seen
> > Rom, Leeta, Ziyal (though with next week's episode being called "Sons
> And
> > Daughters", I imagine she'll show up), or Winn yet. I hope "Sacrifice
> of
> > Angels" isn't a tie-up-fest, but six episodes isn't feeling like nearly
> > enough.
>
> Here's a drunken scenario for you. I've heard that Jadzia is definitely
> going to marry Worf. What if the Dax symbiote dies after that? Would her
> feelings for Worf change? I've always preferred a Julian/Jadzia
> relationship, so I would kind of like that. :)
>
From previous epsiodes it was mentioned that if the symbiote is
removed then the host dies after a short time. One can assume
that if the symbiote dies then the host will also die too.
Honolulu Community College Ph#: (808) 845-9202
874 Dillingham Blvd FAX#: (808) 845-9173
Honolulu, HI 96817 cs_r...@hccadb.hcc.hawaii.edu
My designation is -1 of 10, prepare to be....ahh shoots I forgot my lines.
Hieronymus Bosch
+AD4-
+AD4-Another post referred to Kira's pink uniform. Am I the only one who
+AD4-sees a uniform that is a burnt orange?
+AD4-
I'm seeing burnt orange too.
+AD4-
jse...@ime.net
:
: In brief: Another strong offering, though again the station-side part is
: the strongest.
:
: You know, I'm starting to wonder if six episodes are going to be
: is opening. So far, the first two episodes have opened some very
: interesting doors and asked some very interesting questions -- and
: while any move to a more extended format strikes me as a huge
: improvement over "take the station back in a single show," I'm
: hoping the sixth episode of the season doesn't turn into a huge "sweep
: it all under the rug" festival, as that would be equally or even more
: annoying.
Scary thought, especially as this arc started (if you can find a
definite starting point) in "A Time To Stand" in a busy manner, with
nearly every recurring and regular character being crammed into a
situation where everything was going to hell at once. And we haven't seen
Rom, Leeta, Ziyal (though with next week's episode being called "Sons And
Daughters", I imagine she'll show up), or Winn yet. I hope "Sacrifice of
Angels" isn't a tie-up-fest, but six episodes isn't feeling like nearly
enough.
: The other plot point that I thought was, if not questionable, certainly
: unnecessary, was the wounding of Dax. Unless this is being used to
: set something up an episode or three down the line (which,
: nowadays, seems possible), it struck me as completely superfluous to
: the episode at hand; there was no time pressure created by it to force
: them to escape, and there was no particular moment Dax's presence
: would have spoiled (a la any TNG episode without Troi where a
: reasonable empath would have ended the story half an hour early).
: Were it not for the presence of Lieutenant Neeley, I'd have almost
: speculated if Dax were taken out to make the story purely a "guy
: thing"; as it is, the whole wounding of Dax felt a little ... well,
: inexplicable. If this sets something up later, I'll have to go back and
: look at it again; as it is, that part didn't impress me.
It was tough to miss Bashir pointing out that the symbiont was
badly injured; I wonder if this could affect the makeup of Jadzia Dax's
personality (which could play merry fascinating hell with her
relationships with Worf, Sisko and Bashir after the war's over) or
something else. I don't think Bashir would have repeated it if it weren't
important.
: And then there's Jake, poor man. This week, we mostly saw him as a
: catalyst rather than as a character, but the fact that Kira and Odo are
: getting less and less willing to talk to him has got to be hard on him. I
: still think he's got difficult times ahead, and may well end up writing
: propaganda for the Dominion while convincing himself he's "getting
: the story out" -- but for now, all any of us can do is wait and see.
Propaganda-writing seems to be the popular guess for what's going
to happen to Jake, but I don't think I'd expect it for a few reasons.
We've already seen Kira giving in to Dominion pressures, and there's
really no point in repeating the plotline. Also, I think Jake is too
innocent and naive and to much a child of the Federation to seriously
consider writing Dominion propaganda. He can't even grasp the _concept_
of censorship - he was acting as though his stories were getting out in
"Rocks And Shoals". Not to mention how obsessive Jake is about things he
cares about - even if he wasn't Ben's son, can you really imagine Jake
allowing something to mess with his writing?
I think he's more likely to get into trouble trying to get his
writing out clandestinely. Surely, there's some Bajoran who would do a
favor for the Emissary's son (Leeta?) only to have the whole plan blow up
(possibly with casualties) in Jake's face. Alternately, I'm sure Quark
could procure a subspace transmitter...for a price. What would Odo do if
Jake flagrantly broke the law/station regs in order to get his story out?
: I don't often mention the direction explicitly, but in this case I think
: Michael Vejar deserves special praise. His past DS9 work, in "The
: Darkness and the Light" and "Empok Nor", oozed atmosphere, but it
: was mostly atmosphere for atmosphere's sake. This time, he had a lot
: more to do, and he did it; we got some striking deja vu sequences in
: Kira's start of the day, a lot of good location shooting, and several
: effective uses of slow motion (particularly in Vedek Yassim's suicide,
: though the Jem'Hadar suicide run was appropriate as well). While
: I've often said that the best directors are the ones you *don't* notice,
: Vejar was so strikingly and effectively different in this case that I
: thought it was worth pointing out.
Vejar was great here. The long shot of Ops showing Kira's red
uniform against the dull grey Cardassian/Jem'Hadar outfits was a
particular favorite, as was Yassim's suicide, which brought my heart to my
mouth, despite the maybe five minutes total screen time she had figured in
before. Great work.
I'd also trade a whole lot of special effects for more location
shooting. There's not much call for location shooting on DS9 (Voyager
has no excuse, though), and I wouldn't want excuses to cram it in, but the
constant interiors with (fairly) limited camera angles have begun to wear.
: We get to see what Worf's been up to, and he finds out what his son's
: been up to...
About time we see Alexander. Worf's on DS9 for two years with a
writing staff that has proved themselves able to actually write kids, and
we don't see him until a war breaks out. Alexander wasn't a favorite
element of mine on TNG - Worf was only written as a parent when Alexander
was in the episode - but DS9 has done good family relationships, and I've
wanted to see what they can do with young master Roshenko.
M. Keane
In article <61rj65$2...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
Timothy W. Lynch <tly...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>WARNING: Spoilers for DS9's "Rocks and Shoals" lurk around
>every corner.
>
>In brief: Another strong offering, though again the station-side part is
>the strongest.
>
>
>would have spoiled (a la any TNG episode without Troi where a
>reasonable empath would have ended the story half an hour early).
>Were it not for the presence of Lieutenant Neeley, I'd have almost
>speculated if Dax were taken out to make the story purely a "guy
>thing"; as it is, the whole wounding of Dax felt a little ... well,
>inexplicable. If this sets something up later, I'll have to go back and
>look at it again; as it is, that part didn't impress me.
My take was that Terry Farrell was, for some reason, unable to do the
location shoots(or many of them, I think the only part she appears is
when the equipment is brought on shore, and then, it's *very* *very*
brief), so Neely was basically doing the stuff that Dax would've done.
--
Micheal (Chris) Keane - Associate Professor of Gravitational Morality
University of Edicara
Join the Church of Last Thursday and worship Queen Maeve! E-mail me to join.
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~aexia/thursday.htm
Lasher
> : WARNING: Spoilers for DS9's "Rocks and Shoals" lurk around
> : every corner.
> :
> :
> : *enough* to really cover all the ground this Federation/Dominion war
> : is opening. So far, the first two episodes have opened some very
> : interesting doors and asked some very interesting questions -- and
> : while any move to a more extended format strikes me as a huge
> : improvement over "take the station back in a single show," I'm
> : hoping the sixth episode of the season doesn't turn into a huge "sweep
> : it all under the rug" festival, as that would be equally or even more
> : annoying.
>
> Scary thought, especially as this arc started (if you can find a
> definite starting point) in "A Time To Stand" in a busy manner, with
> nearly every recurring and regular character being crammed into a
> situation where everything was going to hell at once. And we haven't
seen
> Rom, Leeta, Ziyal (though with next week's episode being called "Sons
And
> Daughters", I imagine she'll show up), or Winn yet. I hope "Sacrifice
of
> Angels" isn't a tie-up-fest, but six episodes isn't feeling like nearly
> enough.
I share both your concerns. However, the B story in "Rocks and Shoals"
have eased them somewhat. That episode managed to include Bajor in the
Dominion question, and I was worried that Bajor was going to be almost
totally ignored. With the Federation/Klingon fleets so shattered, I don't
see how a tie-up fest can be avoided. I agree with Tim--the situation on
DS9 is far more fascinating. If a massive reset episode is unavoidable, I
would settle for it if the Odo/Kira/Jake/Rom/Quark/Dukat/Weyoun threads
were properly explored.
It sounds like a slim hope, but "Rocks and Shoals" was a step in the
right direction. As far as I know, the station will be re-taken by
"Sacrifice of Angels". That means the DS9 story would *have* to be
resolved by then. The war could still continue and the other threads
(like Dax's injury, maybe) might be extended after that.
Here's a drunken scenario for you. I've heard that Jadzia is definitely
going to marry Worf. What if the Dax symbiote dies after that? Would her
feelings for Worf change? I've always preferred a Julian/Jadzia
relationship, so I would kind of like that. :)
>
> It was tough to miss Bashir pointing out that the symbiont was
> badly injured; I wonder if this could affect the makeup of Jadzia Dax's
> personality (which could play merry fascinating hell with her
> relationships with Worf, Sisko and Bashir after the war's over) or
> something else. I don't think Bashir would have repeated it if it
weren't
> important.
Could the symbiote be the casualty TPTB promised before this arc
concluded (DON'T tell me if I'm wrong or not, I prefer to be surprised)?
At the very least I want some sort of Trill story out of this. However, I
tend to agree with you. Given the willingness to link past episodes
together during the last two weeks, I suspect that Dax's injury will pop
up again. At least I hope so.
>
> : And then there's Jake, poor man. This week, we mostly saw him as a
> : catalyst rather than as a character, but the fact that Kira and Odo
are
> : getting less and less willing to talk to him has got to be hard on
him. I
> : still think he's got difficult times ahead, and may well end up
writing
> : propaganda for the Dominion while convincing himself he's "getting
> : the story out" -- but for now, all any of us can do is wait and see.
>
> Propaganda-writing seems to be the popular guess for what's going
> to happen to Jake, but I don't think I'd expect it for a few reasons.
> We've already seen Kira giving in to Dominion pressures, and there's
> really no point in repeating the plotline. Also, I think Jake is too
> innocent and naive and to much a child of the Federation to seriously
> consider writing Dominion propaganda. He can't even grasp the _concept_
> of censorship - he was acting as though his stories were getting out in
> "Rocks And Shoals". Not to mention how obsessive Jake is about things
he
> cares about - even if he wasn't Ben's son, can you really imagine Jake
> allowing something to mess with his writing?
But Jake has demonstrated obsessive behavior in virtually every episode
centering on him. "The Muse" (which was, admittedly the low point of the
fourth season) showed his obsession for writing. "Nor The Battle To The
Strong" showed that the writers weren't afraid to cast Jake in an
unflattering light. I think Jake is one hell of a character, but I think
it would be a fascinating turn of events if he started writing Dominion
propaganda. How would he feel about himself? How would the others react?
At the same time, the alternative is equally fascinating. What if he
were to squirt an entire four months of reports over subspace against
Dukat's and Weyoun's wishes? Who would help him (hopefully Quark)? What
would happen to him?
Either way, Jake's situation is something that deserves to be explored.
Given next week's title ("Sons And Daughters"), perhaps it might happen
then. I hope so.
>
> Vejar was great here. The long shot of Ops showing Kira's red
> uniform against the dull grey Cardassian/Jem'Hadar outfits was a
> particular favorite, as was Yassim's suicide, which brought my heart to
my
> mouth, despite the maybe five minutes total screen time she had figured
in
> before. Great work.
I consider Vejar a major coup for DS9. He specializes in episodes that
lend themselves to dark lighting, but "Rocks And Shoals" showed he was
capable of working beyond simple lighting. Vejar has made the most of
mundane stories (he was the only thing l liked about B5's "Comes The
Inquisitor" from last season), but he took a good story and made it
outstanding.
--
return address altered, use address shown below
/=================================================\
"Statistics can be twisted around to mean
anything. 14% of all people know that!"
---Homer Simpson
\=================================================/
Lasher >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> las...@netwave.net
Andy Kim
>every corner.
>
>In brief: Another strong offering, though again the station-side part is
>the strongest.
>
>======
>Written by: Ronald D. Moore
>Directed by: Michael Vejar
>Brief summary: Sisko and his crew are marooned on a deserted
>world, with only a wounded Vorta and ten Jem'Hadar for company --
>and Kira starts questioning her position in the Cardassian/Dominion
>"new order".
>======
>
>You know, I'm starting to wonder if six episodes are going to be
>*enough* to really cover all the ground this Federation/Dominion war
>is opening. So far, the first two episodes have opened some very
>interesting doors and asked some very interesting questions -- and
>while any move to a more extended format strikes me as a huge
>improvement over "take the station back in a single show," I'm
>hoping the sixth episode of the season doesn't turn into a huge "sweep
>it all under the rug" festival, as that would be equally or even more
>annoying.
Is this true? I had hoped the whole season would be dedicated to this. At
this point 6 episodes does not seem enough, even after we skpped the
entire first half of the war. My big worry is that the whole thing will be
wrapped up without telling us much about the Founders. We have seen very
interesting aspects of Vorta/Jem Haddar dynamics but nearly zilch about
Founders themselves.
-ak
--
Andrew Kim | If wishes were fishes we'd all cast nets.
and...@panix.com |
ak...@ml.com |
David Haines
Maureen Goldman <inksl...@FOGsunshine.net> queried in article
<34449a8f...@news.sunshine.net>...
> jse...@ime.net () wrote:
> Another post referred to Kira's pink uniform. Am I the only one who
> sees a uniform that is a burnt orange?
I'm sure just about every viewer in Austin, Tex. does. :-)
--------------------------------
"Their belief in their superiority is beyond arrogance."
-- Deanna Troi, describing both 24th-century Romulans
and 20th-century liberals
-----------------
To reply by E-mail, "decaffeinate" the address.
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jse...@ime.net
Maureen Goldman (inksl...@FOGsunshine.net) wrote:
: jse...@ime.net () wrote:
:
: > Vejar was great here. The long shot of Ops showing Kira's red
: > uniform against the dull grey Cardassian/Jem'Hadar outfits was a
: > particular favorite, as was Yassim's suicide, which brought my heart to my
: > mouth, despite the maybe five minutes total screen time she had figured in
: > before. Great work.
: Another post referred to Kira's pink uniform. Am I the only one who
: sees a uniform that is a burnt orange?
Well, the color may be off on my TV. I seem to remember the color
being referred to as "wine" back when TNG started, so maybe we should use
that.
Peter Hill
Andy Kim wrote in message <61tesi$2...@panix.com>...
>In article <61rj65$2...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
>Timothy W. Lynch <tly...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>
>>*enough* to really cover all the ground this Federation/Dominion war
>>is opening. So far, the first two episodes have opened some very
>>interesting doors and asked some very interesting questions -- and
>>while any move to a more extended format strikes me as a huge
>>improvement over "take the station back in a single show," I'm
>>hoping the sixth episode of the season doesn't turn into a huge "sweep
>>it all under the rug" festival, as that would be equally or even more
>>annoying.
>
>this point 6 episodes does not seem enough, even after we skpped the
>entire first half of the war. My big worry is that the whole thing will be
>wrapped up without telling us much about the Founders. We have seen very
>interesting aspects of Vorta/Jem Haddar dynamics but nearly zilch about
>Founders themselves.
The title of the sixth episode in the arc, "Sacrifice of Angels", *seems* to
be a major spoiler (possibly indicating the sacrifice of Bajor's phrophets
who live in the wormhole). It will be a let-down, but perhaps destruction
of the wormhole may be the only option if the Alpha Quadrant is to survive
in the long run. If it turns out that way, not much else could be revealed
about the Founders. "Simply" destroying the wormhole would be a rather
cheap way of resolving the situation, and I hope the writers have come up
with something better.
--
Peter Hill
ph...@sunlink.net
http://www.sunlink.net/~phill/
Robert Diamond
>every corner.
>
>In brief: Another strong offering, though again the station-side part is
>the strongest.
>
>======
>Written by: Ronald D. Moore
>Directed by: Michael Vejar
>Brief summary: Sisko and his crew are marooned on a deserted
>world, with only a wounded Vorta and ten Jem'Hadar for company --
>and Kira starts questioning her position in the Cardassian/Dominion
>"new order".
>======
>
>have always seemed to be the sleaziest part of the Dominion, with "all
>the moral fiber of Jack the Ripper" [to swipe a quote from another SF
>series], and Keevan's willingness to sacrifice his men so that he could
>live on was certainly plausible. The ending, with the Jem'Hadar
Just to play Devil's Advocate here - I think Keevan felt he *HAD* to kill off
his Jem 'Hadar soldiers! Note the interest they took in Keevan's surgery
("they've just never seen the inside of a Vorta before"), and Third's comment
to Bashir that it was "informative." Even if this batch of soldiers was loyal
to the death, if they got back to Dominion space and talked... The Vorta
knew Bashir could have sedated them through withdrawal, but couldn't take that
risk!!
<snip>
Jim Williams
Robert Diamond wrote in message <61u9ol$89d$1...@news.wco.com>...
>In article <61rj65$2...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
>Timothy W. Lynch <tly...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>WARNING: Spoilers for DS9's "Rocks and Shoals" lurk around
>>every corner.
><snip> - (just keeping signatures and basic info)
>Just to play Devil's Advocate here - I think Keevan felt he *HAD* to kill
off
>his Jem 'Hadar soldiers! Note the interest they took in Keevan's surgery
>("they've just never seen the inside of a Vorta before"), and Third's
comment
>to Bashir that it was "informative." Even if this batch of soldiers was
loyal
>to the death, if they got back to Dominion space and talked... The Vorta
>knew Bashir could have sedated them through withdrawal, but couldn't take
that
>risk!!
Allow me to play the devil to your devil's advocate: the one part of the
show which disgusted me (there's always one such part :) was Sisko's moral
outrage. These... things... are created beings, designed to fight and to
die. With no childhoods, they are stunted, dependent upon an artificial
nourishment supply (which evidently can't be replicated), and there is no
reason to believe the Vorta was lying when he stated that the Jemadar (I use
the kipling spelling :) would revert to savages when the junk ran out.
Imagine the resources which would have to be expended to keep these things
alive, and guarded for the duration of the war (or their lives, whichever
ended first), simply to salve Sisko's conscience. The Jemadar are simply so
much equipment, like a tank or artillary piece. The moral code, or laws of
war, that we humans use in wars with other humans don't apply to them,
because they don't apply them, themselves (or even to themselves). As the
3rd said, their lives are not their own. Like Janeway, Sisko seems to have
forgotten that his primary responsibility is to his command, not to his
adversary or anonymous bystanders. Maybe this is why the Federation is
getting their collective butts whipped.
Jim
Keith M. Kurzman
Peter Hill (ph...@sunlink.net) wrote:
> The title of the sixth episode in the arc, "Sacrifice of Angels", *seems* to
> be a major spoiler (possibly indicating the sacrifice of Bajor's phrophets
> who live in the wormhole). It will be a let-down, but perhaps destruction
> of the wormhole may be the only option if the Alpha Quadrant is to survive
> in the long run. If it turns out that way, not much else could be revealed
> about the Founders. "Simply" destroying the wormhole would be a rather
> cheap way of resolving the situation, and I hope the writers have come up
> with something better.
I have it on reasonably good authority that even after the station is
retaken the war with the dominion will continue. As for destroying the
wormhole-- I sincerely doubt it: No wormhole=No DS9 (The series, not the
station) Possibly in or near the series finale, but not before, I'm
betting.
--baby morris
Greg Steckman
Jim Williams wrote:
>
> Robert Diamond wrote in message <61u9ol$89d$1...@news.wco.com>...
> >In article <61rj65$2...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
> >Timothy W. Lynch <tly...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
> >>every corner.
I don't think the Jem'Hadar would become permanent "monsters". I think
if they had their White replensished they would be back to normal.
However, if it ran out they would have no self control (as we started to
see when one of them fired when ordered not to). Then they would kill
the Vorta since the Jem'Hadar don't like them anyway, but don't kill
them because of their sense of duty. The Vorta knew that killing the
Jem'Hadar would be the only way he would survive, and to him that is
more important than the lives of the Jem'Hadar. Also, he knew they
couldn't figure out the communications equipment, but the Federation
personnel probably could get it to work. OK I am just repeating the
episode here, but I think this story is believable without modification.
--
Gregory J. Steckman
Research Assistant
stec...@sunoptics.caltech.edu
Support the anti-Spam amendment Join at http://www.cauce.org/
Angela
My Toshiba says it's burnt orange. It's definitely burnt orange :)
Angie
Shawn Hill
Maureen Goldman (inksl...@FOGsunshine.net) wrote:
:
: > Well, the color may be off on my TV. I seem to remember the color
: > being referred to as "wine" back when TNG started, so maybe we should use
: > that.
: ??? There were no Bajorans in TNG.
Surely you haven't forgotten Ensign Ro Laren?
Shawn
Brendan Guy
Shawn Hill wrote:
> The suicide seemed awfully cliched to me. Wouldn't Winn have done
> anything to explain the occupation to her people, indicating that they
> were following the Emissary's counsel?
Maybe, but Sisko was talking about keeping Bajor out of the war, he
didn't say anything about letting Dominion operatives on to Bajor
itself.
This is a major escalation of Dominion influence over Bajor, it seems to
indicate going over from forced neutrality to actually being allied with
the Dominion, and should understandably be producing outrage among some
of the Bajoran people. Besides even if Winn did do so, it might not do
any good. As the Nazi party came to power in Germany, the official
Catholic position coming down from the pope itself was pro-Nazi, this
did not stop individual priests from oppossing the rise of Nazism (and
getting many of them sent to the concentration camps for their efforts)
Suprisingly enough, strongly religious people (I liked the vedek so I
won't call her a fanatic) can be rather difficult to control and can be
prone to committ shall we say rather drastic actions when they think
they are right.
Brendan W. Guy
M. Keane
In article <620mf5$lut$2...@news.fas.harvard.edu>,>: WARNING: Spoilers for DS9's "Rocks and Shoals" lurk around
>: every corner.
>:
>: -- The fact that Jem'Hadar eventually become unable to camouflage
>: information.
>
>device on their armour?
Yep. There was an ep in the third season where Odo care for a Jem'Hadar
"child"... he was able to cloak on his own w/o Dominion tech.
Jim Williams
Greg Steckman wrote in message <344388...@sunoptics.caltech.edu>...
>> Jim
>
>I don't think the Jem'Hadar would become permanent "monsters".
No.. just til they killed each other.. and incidentally, the federales.
> The Vorta knew that killing the Jem'Hadar would be the only way he would
survive, and to him that is more important than the lives of the Jem'Hadar.
Also to the Dominion (by their 'societal' structure), Also to the Federation
(the Vorta would make a much more valuable POW). Consider this; the Dominion
just might benefit from a Vorta as a Federale prisoner (they make good
spies, y'know). But beyond combat, the Jemadar are worthless.
Shawn Hill
:
: In brief: Another strong offering, though again the station-side part is
: the strongest.
:
: ======
: Written by: Ronald D. Moore
: Directed by: Michael Vejar
: A year and a half ago, in "To the Death", we were told that the
: genetically engineered loyalty of the Jem'Hadar wasn't all it was
: cracked up to be. However, we weren't really given any reason to
: care or to agree with it -- we were just *told* it, flat-out. "Rocks and
: Shoals" told us far more, and did it by showing us: we got to see,
: mostly through Remata'klan and Sisko's attempts to turn him against
: Keevan, that the Jem'Hadar often know full well when they're being
: misused, but that it rarely manages to do much good. As Remata'klan
: says, there's no need for the Founders and the Vorta to earn
: Jem'Hadar loyalty; they always have it. That tends to lessen any
Which begs the question, why not just order them to kill each
other/suicide before they run out of white? If the Vorta thought they
were going to rebel due to lack of white, what 3rd R. said would seem to
contradict that as even the remotest possibility. Which makes that
First's assasination of his Vorta two seasons ago really aberrant.
: Jem'Hadar as characters. For the most part, they're still "bad guys
: who are just bad", but we're seeing more and more cases where
: individual Jem'Hadar can be interesting.
Except, still not very "individual."
: The overall structure of the story, with the Vorta basically playing
: both sides against the middle, was certainly solid enough; the Vorta
: have always seemed to be the sleaziest part of the Dominion, with "all
: the moral fiber of Jack the Ripper" [to swipe a quote from another SF
: series], and Keevan's willingness to sacrifice his men so that he could
: live on was certainly plausible. The ending, with the Jem'Hadar
I'd like to see more of that Machiavellian "immorality." Are they, as
Dukat's daughter joked to Quark, gluttonous gambling sex addicts?
: surprised he didn't use them. (Nog's presence mitigates that a bit, as
: he's even in a Starfleet uniform, so perhaps Garak just decided it
: wasn't worth the pretense.)
Garak always knows when to cut his losses. I thought his cheery greeting
to Sisko and Julian, as the hostages were being traded, was exceptionally
funny.
: Were it not for the presence of Lieutenant Neeley, I'd have almost
: speculated if Dax were taken out to make the story purely a "guy
: thing"; as it is, the whole wounding of Dax felt a little ... well,
And the reason they would want to have a "guy" thing in the inherently
unsexist world of Trek would be......? Not to mention the fact that, as
much as Neeley, Dax has *always* been one of the guys herself.
: inexplicable. If this sets something up later, I'll have to go back and
: look at it again; as it is, that part didn't impress me.
Perhaps it was just verisimilutude? Rather than being a plot point, she
was just randomly injured, as a sign of how dire their straits were.
And, not so randomly, it also set up a contrasting parralel to Keevan's
situation. While he was injured, surrounded by (in his mind) unhelpful
idiots (and, something truly idiotic by starfleet standards, NO medical
personnel), she was surrounded by loving comrades fully willing to care
for her to the best of their ability. Another fundamental human/Dominion
difference illustrated quite efficiently.
: the job" was something I could have taken or left, but the Garak/Nog
: confrontation about "that unfortunate incident" late last season (in the
: forgettable "Empok Nor") rang very true, as did the laughter about
Though it was a little too easily shrugged off by BOTH parties, and you
notice by the end of the ep Nog is more than willing to precede Garak.
: O'Brien ripping his pants, Bashir's evaluation of Keevan ("you ...
: ARE alive"), and the general sense of gallows humor surrounding
: much of the story. Those little touches are often discounted, but they
Gallows humor seems to be what Julian's character is all about these days.
Who's the wise Russian mystic that's a little too truthful in his
pronouncements....Rasputin?
: see the Cardassian/Dominion occupation in action, and to see what the
: defeated (excuse me; forcibly "allied") people have to live with, day
: after day. That's a far rarer sight, and in a lot of ways a far more
: interesting one. After all, we know Sisko and company will
: eventually get off the planet and the war will be one; but we don't
: know whether Kira will be able to live with herself afterwards, or
: what's going to become of Jake. There's a far greater sense of
: uncertainty in that half of the story, and that's giving us a lot to chew
: on.
The suicide seemed awfully cliched to me. Wouldn't Winn have done
anything to explain the occupation to her people, indicating that they
were following the Emissary's counsel?
: -- The fact that Jem'Hadar eventually become unable to camouflage
: themselves when sufficiently weakened is an interesting little piece of
: information.
Does this mean that they cloak BIOLOGICALLY, and not through some sort of
device on their armour?
: -- Speaking of which, I particularly liked Keevan's allusions to
: Starfleet engineers being able to "turn rocks into replicators". It's
: good to see that there's *something* which impresses the Dominion.
So their tech is [was] superior, but they're not as adaptable as us little
tool-makers, huh? Interesting.
: OVERALL: 9.5; good work.
Agreed on the score. Great ep.
Shawn
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
"You're the one who grows distant
when I beckon you near"
----bjork
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
sh...@husc.harvard.edu Shawn Hill
Gary J. Wolfe
Maureen Goldman wrote:
>> Well, the color may be off on my TV. I seem to remember the color
>> being referred to as "wine" back when TNG started, so maybe we should use
>> that.
>
> ??? There were no Bajorans in TNG.
So you missed Ensign Ro? The Maquis? Not to mention all the others we
see during her "double-agent" mission?
John Myers
>
> From previous epsiodes it was mentioned that if the symbiote is
> removed then the host dies after a short time. One can assume
> that if the symbiote dies then the host will also die too.
>
Easy enough to get around when a close friend is a medical genius, once
nominated for the top award in the Federation, who was scared very badly by
Jadzia nearly dying when her symbiont was removed. You can picture him
vowing to not let that situation arise again.
Of course if Bashir did manage this then would Jadzia fall for HIM instead?
A good part of Jadzia Daxes falling for Worf was the Dax love of Klingon
culture and tradition so without that who knows. The description of shy
studious Jadzia seems more like Bashirs type than Worfs (Rmember how that
Empathic Metamorph approached Worf as his ideal? Compare that with Leetas
approach.).
M. Keane
In article <01bcd902$a625fa40$c3567ec2@default>,
John Myers <joh...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
>Of course if Bashir did manage this then would Jadzia fall for HIM instead?
>A good part of Jadzia Daxes falling for Worf was the Dax love of Klingon
I've always thought that it was more Jadzia who fell for Worf. In general,
Dax has been portrayed as "Just one of the guys", due in part to the Dax
symbiont being in a male host previously, I think. So, Jadzia gets to
express the feminine side of herself around Worf(jumping in his arms, etc)
while still holding some of Dax's machoness.
Chris Andersen
"Peter Hill" <ph...@sunlink.net> wrote:
>The title of the sixth episode in the arc, "Sacrifice of Angels", *seems* to
>be a major spoiler (possibly indicating the sacrifice of Bajor's phrophets
>who live in the wormhole). It will be a let-down, but perhaps destruction
>of the wormhole may be the only option if the Alpha Quadrant is to survive
>in the long run. If it turns out that way, not much else could be revealed
>about the Founders. "Simply" destroying the wormhole would be a rather
>cheap way of resolving the situation, and I hope the writers have come up
>with something better.
It may be a cheap way of resolving the situation, but I think that
such is what would happen in the real world.
Andy Kim
>: genetically engineered loyalty of the Jem'Hadar wasn't all it was
>: cracked up to be. However, we weren't really given any reason to
>: care or to agree with it -- we were just *told* it, flat-out. "Rocks and
>: Shoals" told us far more, and did it by showing us: we got to see,
>: mostly through Remata'klan and Sisko's attempts to turn him against
>: Keevan, that the Jem'Hadar often know full well when they're being
>: misused, but that it rarely manages to do much good. As Remata'klan
>: says, there's no need for the Founders and the Vorta to earn
>: Jem'Hadar loyalty; they always have it. That tends to lessen any
>
>Which begs the question, why not just order them to kill each
>other/suicide before they run out of white? If the Vorta thought they
>were going to rebel due to lack of white, what 3rd R. said would seem to
>contradict that as even the remotest possibility. Which makes that
>First's assasination of his Vorta two seasons ago really aberrant.
Well, Sisko and the gang was probably a better alternative for Keevan,
since you can actually reason with them. Remata'klan was still his normal
self when he said what he said, but there is no guarantee that he and other
Jem'Hadar won't simply go nuts when the white withdrawal hits them. From
what we have seen in "To The Death", not all Jem'Hadar are not as straight
as Remata'klan.
>: the job" was something I could have taken or left, but the Garak/Nog
>: confrontation about "that unfortunate incident" late last season (in the
>: forgettable "Empok Nor") rang very true, as did the laughter about
>
>Though it was a little too easily shrugged off by BOTH parties, and you
>notice by the end of the ep Nog is more than willing to precede Garak.
I noticed it too, but Nog was probably more afraid of Jem'Hadar than Garak
at that point.
>: see the Cardassian/Dominion occupation in action, and to see what the
>: defeated (excuse me; forcibly "allied") people have to live with, day
>: after day. That's a far rarer sight, and in a lot of ways a far more
>: interesting one. After all, we know Sisko and company will
>: eventually get off the planet and the war will be one; but we don't
>: know whether Kira will be able to live with herself afterwards, or
>: what's going to become of Jake. There's a far greater sense of
>: uncertainty in that half of the story, and that's giving us a lot to chew
>: on.
>
>The suicide seemed awfully cliched to me. Wouldn't Winn have done
>anything to explain the occupation to her people, indicating that they
>were following the Emissary's counsel?
She might have. But as we have seen before, some of Bajoran religious
leaders are very strong in their beliefs, borderline fanatics. When I was
in Korea, I have personally witnessed a person setting himself on a fire
during one of the demonstrations. There is always a person who is willing
to sacrifice him/herself in the belief that his death would be a match that
starts a bigger fire. The problem is that it does not always have an
intended effect, but there is something tragic about it and knowing Kira, I
am not surprised that she is shaken to a point to disobey Sisko's order.
>: -- Speaking of which, I particularly liked Keevan's allusions to
>: Starfleet engineers being able to "turn rocks into replicators". It's
>: good to see that there's *something* which impresses the Dominion.
>
>So their tech is [was] superior, but they're not as adaptable as us little
>tool-makers, huh? Interesting.
I chuckled at that line. It sounded like one of those self-referential
tongue-in-cheek lines on writers' part.
>: OVERALL: 9.5; good work.
>
>Agreed on the score. Great ep.
10 for me. Small problems here and there, but the chilling performance of
actors who played Jem'Hadar and Keevan, just about everything that went on
on the station, superb directing and biting dialogues were 10+ to cover
them up.
Brian Barjenbruch
> So you missed Ensign Ro? The Maquis? Not to mention all the others we
> see during her "double-agent" mission?
Also there is a Bajoran guard in the brig in "Descent" when Crosis the
Borg is trying to get Data to leave the ship with him.
Brian
C. AZIZ
In <34420...@ALPHA.RHODES.EDU> "Hieronymus Bosch" <pe...@rhodes.edu>
writes:
>
>
>+AD4-
>+AD4-Another post referred to Kira's pink uniform. Am I the only one
who
>+AD4-sees a uniform that is a burnt orange?
>+AD4-
>
>
>I'm seeing burnt orange too.
>+AD4-
Nana Visitor calls it orange too. She ought to know.
______
Entropy2
C. AZIZ
In <61ucgp$48h$2...@news.ime.net> jse...@ime.net () writes:
>: Another post referred to Kira's pink uniform. Am I the only one who
>: sees a uniform that is a burnt orange?
>
> Well, the color may be off on my TV. I seem to remember the
color
>being referred to as "wine" back when TNG started, so maybe we should
use
>that.
>
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Kira's original uniform (padded shoulders) was wine color,
but the one she is currently wearing is more of a burnt-
orange. The old one was more professional looking.
________
Entropy2
Matthew Jeremy Blevins
They CAN'T destroy the wormhole anymore, remember? They tried to
do so in "In Purgatory's Shadow," but the changeling modified the
emitters, and they strengthen it. O'Brien said that even trilithium
explosives would have no effect, so that little possibility is pretty
much gone.
Thank goodness.
--
-Matthew Blevins
"Women. Once they know you respect them, it's all over..."
Kevin Johnston
>> "Simply" destroying the wormhole would be a rather
>> cheap way of resolving the situation, and I hope the writers have come up
>> with something better.
> It may be a cheap way of resolving the situation, but I think that
> such is what would happen in the real world.
I thought the wormhole was rendered permament in a previous episode (i.e.
can't be closed by any ordinary means). Not that that would stop the
writers, of course....
Kevin
David B. Mears
On 15 Oct 1997 00:36:33 GMT, John Myers <joh...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
>> From previous epsiodes it was mentioned that if the symbiote is
>> removed then the host dies after a short time. One can assume
>> that if the symbiote dies then the host will also die too.
>Easy enough to get around when a close friend is a medical genius, once
>nominated for the top award in the Federation, who was scared very badly by
>Jadzia nearly dying when her symbiont was removed. You can picture him
>vowing to not let that situation arise again.
>Of course if Bashir did manage this then would Jadzia fall for HIM instead?
>A good part of Jadzia Daxes falling for Worf was the Dax love of Klingon
>culture and tradition so without that who knows.
Interesting thought. Let's suppose just for a minute that the DAX
symbiont does die, and that Bashir finds a way to keep Jadzia alive.
I can see lots of stuff here for future drama. Jadzia would go through
withdrawal symptoms, trying to come to terms with being one creature
again after having shared the memories of many. An episode or two could
be gotten from that.
Then let's say that Jadzia (or someone) talks the good folks of Trill
into allowing her to host another symbiont to make up for her loss.
The new symbiont wouldn't be DAX, so Jadzia would have a whole new host
of memories (pun intended ;-), and her interactions with Sisko would no
longer be based on Ben's previous friendship with DAX. Another several
episodes of drama could come out of that.
David B. Mears
Hewlett-Packard
Cupertino CA
me...@cup.hp.com
BCora713
>.
>DS9 is the best thing on TV and I for one will be very sorry to see the
>departure of Miles(and Keiko et. al, I suppose).
Don't be too upset. Ron Moore said no regulars are going to die, and Colm
Meaney is staying on DS9 for the rest of the season.
David Buccelli
nkspirit wrote:
>
> Sacrifice of Angels refers to O'Brien as that will be his last episode
> on DS9. He is finally getting out of his contract and will apparently go
> out with a bang(sacrifice, remember?).
> I just hope it is done better than Kes' last ep on Voyager.
> DS9 is the best thing on TV and I for one will be very sorry to see the
> departure of Miles(and Keiko et. al, I suppose).
>
Wrong. He is NOT leaving. Repeat: He is NOT leaving.
nkspirit
AntiJohn
nkspirit <nksp...@smart1.net> wrote:
>Spirit
I thought someone said that O'Brian was going to stay? What gives
here?!?
The Low Golden Willow
chr...@aracnet.com (Chris Andersen) wrote:
/>about the Founders. "Simply" destroying the wormhole would be a rather
/>cheap way of resolving the situation, and I hope the writers have come up
/
/It may be a cheap way of resolving the situation, but I think that
/such is what would happen in the real world.
In the real world probably the wormhole would have been destroyed or the
Dominion would have won already. They've nearly won already: sheer luck
(and the inexplicable retention of Dr. Bashir, so that he could escape)
saved the Alpha Quadrant from the fake-fleet/sunbomb plot. At any rate,
by now the Dominion should have the ship specs and technology of all the
Alpha Quadrant. Given the claimed intelligence of the changelings most
of that technology should be old hat to the Dominion.
Actually, one of my guesses is that the Dominion has more advanced
technology than it has shown. As long as the Vorta/Jem'Hadar were able
to dominate the Gamma Quadrant the Founders might keep secret any
advances they came up with. Why? They're long-lived paranoids who kept
their own existence a secret from their own empire for 2000 years. I
think they could hold back unneeded tech for the sake of secrecy and
surprise. Always hold something in reserve. If you're fully committed
you're one step away from being dead... this would explain why the
Jem'Hadar ships don't have cloaking devices, even though the soldiers
can cloak themselves and changelings have infiltrated the Romulans and
Klingons. The Dominion _wants_ you to think they don't use cloaking
devices, for some mysterious reason, because they've never needed to use
cloaking devices. When they do need it, whoops, *surprise*...
So the Dominion could be trying to conquer the Alpha Quadrant using
already visible tools and weapons. If things go badly the Jem'Hadar
get some revelations from the Founders.
Of course realistically the Borg would already have gobbled the entire
galaxy, not to mention the Federation; realistically the changelings
would not consider the first and second laws of thermodynamics to be
optional; realistically... Star Trek wouldn't be recognizable.
Merry part,
-xx- Damien R. Sullivan X-) <*> http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~phoenix
"Aldous Huxley said that an intellectual was a person who had discovered
something more interesting than sex. A civilised man, it might be said,
is someone who has discovered something more satisfying than combat."
-- John Keegan, _A History of Warfare_
Szelim Kong
Paul Tucker wrote in message <626emn$d...@news.inforamp.net>...
>
>tly...@alumnae.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) wrote:
>>WARNING: Spoilers for DS9's "Rocks and Shoals" lurk around
>>every corner.
>> ....
>>
>>-- The FX shot of the wounded Jem'Hadar ship heading down to the
>>planet was really pretty, though I would've liked to have seen exactly
>>what Garak saw as well.
>
> It eventually clicked for me that we did se what caught his attention...
>the planet hurtling towards him.
>
>Paul
It probably looked like what Data saw as the Enterprise went crashing into
Veridian III.
- Szelim Kong -
Szelim Kong
Szelim Kong
Szelim Kong
Justin Faulkner
Szelim Kong <qry...@pgh.net> wrote in article
<62e0rk$71h$1...@dropit.pgh.net>...
hehehe. "Ohhhhhhh Shit!"
--
--------------------------
"The truth is usually an excuse for a lack of imagination"-
-Garak, Deep Space Nine
8=(_)=8
Justin Faulkner