Are you a fascist?
Gail Thaler
Milton Brewster writes:
It's no crime to not really know what Fascism is. We live in
a wonderful country that fought a good fight against Fascism for
25 years, earlier in this century. MANY of us have parents who
fought in WW II; a few of us are old enough to have fought in WW II
ourselves. Partly because of the war; we've grown up in a country
that demonized the term-- it's not surprising to me that many of
us use the term 'fascist' as an epithet, rather than a description
of a very successful political philosophy.
The problem is, that Fascism is an infectuous idea. It pops up in
new guises all the time. It is ALWAYS with us; and ALWAYS deserves
our vigilant attention, no matter what our personal political views
are.
Here is my extended quote defining Fascism, below. This is what
our fathers fought against. When I use the term 'fascist;' this
is what I mean:
******************************************************
******************************************************
Roger Griffin, Editor, "Fascism," Oxford Press
[ ... an excellent intro to Fascist Philosophy and 20th Cent.
History, written by an English Academic internationally
recognized as an expert on Fascist political movements.
He has no American political axes to grind. Highly
reccomended. -milt. ]
Griffin defines Fascism as follows:
Fascism is a genus of political ideology whose mythic core
in its various permutations is a palingenetic form of populist
ultranationalism.
1.Fascisim is anti-liberal. Fascism's call for the regeneration
of the national community through a heroic strugel against
its alleged enemies and the forces undermining it
involves the radical rejection of liberalism in all of
its aspects: pluralism, tolerance, individualism,
gradualism, pacifism, parliamentary democracy,
the separation of powers, the doctrine of "natural
rights", egalitaraianism, the rectilinear theory of
progress, the open society, cosmopolitanism,
one-worldism, etc..
2.Fascism is anti-conservative. The centrality to fascism of a
myth of the nation's regeneration within a new order implies a
rejection of illiberal conservative politics (for example, an
absolutist system in which sovereignty is invested in a hereditary
monarchy or oligarchy), as well as of liberal and authoritarian
conservtive solutions to the current crisis which imply a restoration
of law and order and does not involve a social renewal...
Fascist ideologues frequently attach great importance to
allegedly glorious epochs in the nation's past and the heroes
which emobdy them. They do not do so out of nostaliga, but to
remind people of the nation's "true nature" and its destiny
to rise once more to historical greatness.
3.Fascism tends to operate as a charismatic form of politics.
..fascism rejects both the traditional politics of the ancien
reigme and to the legal-rational politics of liberalism and
socialism, it follows that it is predisposed to function as a
charismatic form of politics...
All political ideologies are prone to assume a charismatic
aspect when they operate as revolutionary forces--liberalism
did, for example, in the French Revolution. It is significant,
though, that fascism remained a charismatic form of politics
in the two cases where it managed to install itself in power.
4.Fascism is anti-rational. Consistent with its tendentially
charismatic nature is fascism's frequent repudiation of
rationalism and its overt celebration of myth.
5.Fascism "socialism." Fascists claim to be the true socialists by
asserting a commitment to corporate economists, national
syndicalism and a high degree of state planning. While
rejecting the internationalism and materialism of Marxism,
it may well present the rejuvenation of the national community as
transcending class conflict, destroying
traditional hierarchy, expunging paratism, rewarding all
productive members of the new nation, and harnessing the
energies of capitalism and technology in a new order in
which they cease to be exploitave and enslaving.
Also:
Implicit in fascism's mythic core is the drive towards
totatitarianism. Any attempt to expunge all decadence
necessarily leads to the creation of a highly centralized
"total" State with draconian powers to carry out
a comprehensive scheme of social engineering.
Fascism's social support is heterogeneous. There is no specific
class basis in its support. There is nothing in principle
which precludes an employed or unemployed member of the
working classes or an aristocrat, a city-dweller or a
peasant, a graduate or someone "educationally challenged"
from being susceptible to fascist myth.
Fascist racism. By its nature fascism is racist, since all
ultra-nationalists are racist in their celebration of the alleged
virtues and greatness of an organically conceived nation or
culture...Also fascism is intrinsically anti-cosmopolitan,
axiomatically rejecting as decadent the liberal vision of
the multi-cultural, multi-religious, multi-racial society.
*******************************
Molinari 2000
Let's look at some characteristics of fascism:
1) Emphasis on propaganda and the "big lie". Demonizing opponents.
(remember Dems calling increases "cuts"?, the word "extreme"?)
2) Active, powerful government.
(Dems are clearly the party of more government)
3) Nationalism.
(this week Algore called Republicans "un-American")
4) Gun control.
(a popular idea with Hitler, also with Democrats)
5) Government decides morality.
("Political Correctness")
6) In Nazi Germany, laws based on racial preference.
(Dems insisting race-bases contracts and admissions are fair)
7) Opposition to dissent and individual freedoms.
(ever notice how vulgar many Libs become when someone disagrees?)
8) Hitler had his "Hitler youth", a government-sponsored program
to instill the values he decided were 'correct' in the country's
youth.
(Americorps?)
9) Government involvement in, and control of, the Arts.
(NEA)
etc...
--
"This speech is a lot like a Bill Clinton promise: it won't last long,
and it will sound like a Republican talking!"
Former GOP Congresswoman Susan Molinari
- Keynote Speech at the GOP Convention
Scribbler
Molinari 2000 (tdi...@please.no.spam.net) wrote:
: Let's look at some characteristics of fascism:
: 1) Emphasis on propaganda and the "big lie". Demonizing opponents.
: (remember Dems calling increases "cuts"?, the word "extreme"?)
[ and on and on; snipped ]
Congratulations. You've beaten me.
I was going to post a similar but more sincere questionaire, but didn't
have the time. Being a lazy Liberal; I've been busy working 65 hours a
week, and didn't get to it.
Your questionaire is instructive, though. You're practicing the "big
lie" strategy, for instance-- using quibbles to demonize your
Liberal opponents instead of dealing honestly with their sincere
opposition on the issue at hand.
You're also overlooking the crimes-- that's right, CRIMES-- that your GOP
friends have committed in the name of Selfishness and greed: And it's
your crimes that convict you of the term 'Fascist.' Let's not forget Nixon
and watergate. and let's expecially NOT forget that Reagan administration
had more high officials indighted, tried and convicted, than any other
administration in American History. The GOP never reformed itself after
being caught, tried and convicted; almost entirely by REPUBLICAN Judges
and Prosecutors-- you can't claim that WE did it to you.
You Conservatives have a LOT to answer for.
******************
While I respect your elegant insincerity, I feel compelled to point out,
that your self serving definition of the term 'Fascist' is in error in
some important respects. I dont think you want to admit it here.
milton brewster
Molinari 2000
pen...@rahul.net(Scribbler) wrote:
>Molinari 2000 (tdi...@please.no.spam.net) wrote:
>: Let's look at some characteristics of fascism:
>
>: 1) Emphasis on propaganda and the "big lie". Demonizing opponents.
>: (remember Dems calling increases "cuts"?, the word "extreme"?)
>
>[ and on and on; snipped ]
Well, since you have called the sincerity of my list to question,
let me call your motives for stopping there as well. Let's look
at the next one -
>2) Active, powerful government.
> (Dems are clearly the party of more government)
Something tells me you were more comfortable refuting #1.
Judging from the last few years, liberals seem determined
for government to grow into our lives until it simply takes over...
Even _slowing_ its growth is forbidden, and "extreme". Is there
some point you and yours would decide government has become big
enough? What is that point please?
>Congratulations. You've beaten me.
Not trying to beat anyone, just offer a counterpoint, actually.
>I was going to post a similar but more sincere questionaire, but didn't
>have the time. Being a lazy Liberal; I've been busy working 65 hours a
>week, and didn't get to it.
I can empathize - but that extra 25 hours will pay your taxes.
>Your questionaire is instructive, though. You're practicing the "big
>lie" strategy, for instance-- using quibbles to demonize your
>Liberal opponents instead of dealing honestly with their sincere
>opposition on the issue at hand.
No, I was not. However, I must admit to a pang of guilt at what
may have seemed an undeserved accusation that Dems are fascists.
That was not my intent. If my remarks were interpreted as such,
I apologize.
However, with the exception of a different set of buzzwords,
there are honestly some common themes.
>You're also overlooking the crimes-- that's right, CRIMES-- that your GOP
>friends have committed in the name of Selfishness and greed: And it's
>your crimes that convict you of the term 'Fascist.' Let's not forget Nixon
>and watergate. and let's expecially NOT forget that Reagan administration
>had more high officials indighted, tried and convicted, than any other
>administration in American History. The GOP never reformed itself after
>being caught, tried and convicted; almost entirely by REPUBLICAN Judges
>and Prosecutors-- you can't claim that WE did it to you.
I think actually this is a bit of a diversion, and off-topic.
What does any of that have to do with fascism?
>You Conservatives have a LOT to answer for.
If liberals create a system in America which is essentially
a totalitarian (fascist) state, YOU will have a lot to answer for.
>While I respect your elegant insincerity, I feel compelled to point out,
>that your self serving definition of the term 'Fascist' is in error in
>some important respects. I dont think you want to admit it here.
Thanks. If you have more time later I invite you to post and
respond to the points individually which you feel are not accurate.
>milton brewster
millionth monkey
On 22 Jun 1997 05:44:18 GMT, Molinari 2000
<tdi...@please.no.spam.net> let loose with:
>pen...@rahul.net(Scribbler) wrote:
>>Molinari 2000 (tdi...@please.no.spam.net) wrote:
>>: Let's look at some characteristics of fascism:
>>
>>: 1) Emphasis on propaganda and the "big lie". Demonizing opponents.
>>: (remember Dems calling increases "cuts"?, the word "extreme"?)
>>
>>[ and on and on; snipped ]
>
>Well, since you have called the sincerity of my list to question,
>let me call your motives for stopping there as well. Let's look
>at the next one -
>
>>2) Active, powerful government.
>> (Dems are clearly the party of more government)
>
>Something tells me you were more comfortable refuting #1.
>
>Judging from the last few years, liberals seem determined
>for government to grow into our lives until it simply takes over...
Why did the size and power of the government grow so much under
republican presidents?
>Even _slowing_ its growth is forbidden, and "extreme". Is there
>some point you and yours would decide government has become big
>enough? What is that point please?
When is it small enough? Are you really this simple that you view
things this ideologically?
>>Congratulations. You've beaten me.
>
>Not trying to beat anyone, just offer a counterpoint, actually.
Have yet to see one. I have seen some strawmans.
_________________________________
Spiro Agnew photo gallery
http://www.concentric.net/~Kuru4u/
Molinari 2000
kur...@concentric.net (millionth monkey), writing
more like monkey 999,999 randomly typed:
>On 22 Jun 1997 05:44:18 GMT, Molinari 2000
><tdi...@please.no.spam.net> let loose with:
>
>>pen...@rahul.net(Scribbler) wrote:
>>>Molinari 2000 (tdi...@please.no.spam.net) wrote:
>>>: Let's look at some characteristics of fascism:
>>>
>>>: 1) Emphasis on propaganda and the "big lie". Demonizing opponents.
>>>: (remember Dems calling increases "cuts"?, the word "extreme"?)
>>>
>>>[ and on and on; snipped ]
>>
>>Well, since you have called the sincerity of my list to question,
>>let me call your motives for stopping there as well. Let's look
>>at the next one -
>>
>>>2) Active, powerful government.
>>> (Dems are clearly the party of more government)
>>
>>Something tells me you were more comfortable refuting #1.
>>
>>Judging from the last few years, liberals seem determined
>>for government to grow into our lives until it simply takes over...
>
>Why did the size and power of the government grow so much under
>republican presidents?
Maybe more to the point, how can its relentless growth be stopped
before we reach the "We The Government" stage?
>>Even _slowing_ its growth is forbidden, and "extreme". Is there
>>some point you and yours would decide government has become big
>>enough? What is that point please?
>
>When is it small enough? Are you really this simple that you view
>things this ideologically?
Well that's a bit of a moot point, since it only grows. Maybe we
can worry about that particular question when we can figure a way
to actually make it smaller?
So far that has never happened.
>>>Congratulations. You've beaten me.
>>
>>Not trying to beat anyone, just offer a counterpoint, actually.
>
>Have yet to see one. I have seen some strawmans.
Hey, Agnew doesn't look _that_ much like straw. :)
>_________________________________
>Spiro Agnew photo gallery
>http://www.concentric.net/~Kuru4u/