Bring me the head of GEORGE LUCAS (Sp Ed changes)
Mojo
Sorry to go off topic, but I'm really wondering what all of you guys
think of this.
I'm not even going to go into the Greedo scene, since that's easy and
obvious foder. It's some of the finer points that got me going...
How many of you caught THESE changes?
1. In TWO scenes on the Death Star, when our heroes (dressed as
Troopers) are shooting Imperial Guards, several frames have been cut
so we no longer see the lasers striking the officers. These are both
shots where you could see a burning hole in the actor's clothing, so I
assume Lucas felt these 2 scenes were just too 'violent.'
But I guess an arm lying on the floor is OK!
2. In Empire, after R2 has been shot out of the lake on Dagobah, Luke
cleans him off and ORIGINALLY said, "You're lucky you don't taste very
good." This has now been changed to "You're lucky you got outta
there."
I had to rack my brain to figure out WHY they would have changed this!
I finally realized that the new line creates the implication that R2
somehow managed to rocket *himself* out of the lake and removes any
idea that the robot was almost eaten by a swamp creature. So, what
was a mildly amusing moment has been castrated into a moment of no
consequence whatsoever. Three cheers for George, who doesn't want any
poor kiddy to be scared over what *almost* happened!
3. After Vader implores Luke (hanging on the gantry) to join the dark
side, Luke gets go and silently plummets down the chasm of Bespin. In
the 'special' edition, Luke now screams "AAAAaaaaaaaaa" all the way
down! I swear I though some joker in the theater was making the
scream until I realized it was added to the damn movie!!!
This proves that Lucas just hasn't got a clue anymore when it comes to
understanding dramatic action. The entire point of the scene is that
a calm, resiliant Luke decides that suicide is a better alternative to
joining Vader. He has made his decision and jumps off in defiance -
and now a screaming yelp completely destroys all of Luke's diginity
and ruins a brave moment.
4. At first I thought seeing the Wampa was cool, and I was especially
surprised that Lucas would include such a graphic shot of the creature
with his amputated arm - UNTIL I realized that it was there to remove
any possibility that Luke had *killed* the beast, which is exactly
what I had thought he had done in the original.
I grieve for STAR WARS fans everywhere and lament that our spiritual
father has lost his creative mind. It's hard to believe that this
once artistic visionary has turned into such a petty, self-censoring,
politically correct nerd.
The one special effects shot that's really missing is the one in which
George Lucas turned himself into a giant, 5-foot PUSSY!
With deep anger and resentment,
MOJO
Biggest Star Wars Fan Alive
Chuck Fullerton
Mo...@foundation-i.com (Mojo) wrote:
>
>3. After Vader implores Luke (hanging on the gantry) to join the dark
>side, Luke gets go and silently plummets down the chasm of Bespin. In
>the 'special' edition, Luke now screams "AAAAaaaaaaaaa" all the way
>down!
Mojo, I'm with ya on this one 100%. I was cracking up when I
heard it, I must admit. He sounds like Wile E. Coyote falling off a
cliff, or Fred Flintstone being licked by Dino. . .very unintentionally
funny, and very unfortunate. yyyyaaaaaaAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! It
isn't the fact that he *screams* (which in itself is a VERY
questionable change to Irvin Kershner's masterpiece), it's the way he
-sounds- doing it. A travesty, and the matted-in scene of Vader boarding
the Star Destroyer (re-used RotJ footage) was incredibly sloppy.
-cHuCk
Mike Van Pelt
In article <5eskip$m...@usenet79.supernews.com>,
Mojo <Mo...@foundation-i.com> wrote:
>I grieve for STAR WARS fans everywhere and lament that our spiritual
>father has lost his creative mind. It's hard to believe that this
>once artistic visionary has turned into such a petty, self-censoring,
>politically correct nerd.
I've only seen the new "Episode IV", and none of this really grabbed
me. The substantive additions I noticed (Biggs, Jabba) added
background that was sorely missed in the original.
One thing that annoyed me was that in several places, the new,
"enhanced" sound effects stomped all over the dialog, making it
almost completely inaudible.
For the rest... I kind of agree ... in direction, if not in degree.
I'm horrified that he had Luke scream as he falls in "Empire."
I think the problem started before Return of the Jedi. This was
supposed to have been the Wookie home planet. We'd have gotten
to see where Chewbacca was from, and learned more about him.
Unfortunatly, at some point Lucas apparantly decided the Wookies were
"contaminated" because we'd seen Chewbacca using technology. He wanted
the Empire's minions defeated by pure stone-age people. Lucas said
something of the sort in an interview; an odd attitude for someone
enlisting so much high tech in the making of his movies.
Thus, the cute marketable teddy bea.. er, mogwai... no, I mean Ewoks.
And Chewbacca remains a one-of-a-kind cardboard cutout covered with
hair, with no history and no background. He deserved better.
And I'm still *TICKED* that he didn't get a medal at the end of
Episode IV.
I'll go see the new ones, but my expectations are not what they once
were. Especially since the last Star Wars stuff we've seen was the
execrable "Ewok Adventure" specials.
--
Mike Van Pelt "You can fool too many of the people too
m...@netcom.com much of the time." -- James Thurber
KE6BVH
****WARNING: I complain to your ISP if you send me spam! ******
Jay Denebeim
>1. In TWO scenes on the Death Star, when our heroes (dressed as
>Troopers) are shooting Imperial Guards, several frames have been cut
>so we no longer see the lasers striking the officers. These are both
>shots where you could see a burning hole in the actor's clothing, so I
>assume Lucas felt these 2 scenes were just too 'violent.'
>But I guess an arm lying on the floor is OK!
Well, honestly those I didn't notice. I coulda sworn I saw the burn
in the detension area. The one where Han runs around the corner
though, I'll give 'em, that change was great.
It sounds like they really eviserated Empire. That's unfortunate.
The scream especially ruions the moment.
>MOJO
>Biggest Star Wars Fan Alive
Well, I don't know about that, I'm pretty overweight myself :-)
Jay
--
* Jay Denebeim, Moderator, rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated *
* newsgroup submission address: ras...@solon.com *
* moderator contact address: rastb5-...@solon.com *
* personal contact address: dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us *
rosita
Mojo wrote:
<snip>
> I grieve for STAR WARS fans everywhere and lament that our spiritual
> father has lost his creative mind. It's hard to believe that this
> once artistic visionary has turned into such a petty, self-censoring,
> politically correct nerd.
<snip>
Yeah, wasn't there also a shot of a little turret gun descending from
the M. Falcon at the spaceport and splattering several Stormtroopers
who were entering the docking area? I didn't see that this time
around.
By the way, when did the term "politically correct" come to mean
any kind of censoring whatsoever? As far as I knew, it only
meant special language to refer to disadvantaged groups, blacks,
women, disabled, etc... People seem to throw the term around
pretty loosely now. Isn't protecting poor, precious, innocent, little
kiddies by stripping away our free speech rights as much the work of
the right-wing fundies (they *wrote* that infernal internet decency
act; spineless Bill only signed it) as it is of the left-wing PC'ers?
Lisa
Jake Blues
>>>>> "Lisa" == rosita <ros...@igc.apc.org> writes:
Lisa> Yeah, wasn't there also a shot of a little turret gun
Lisa> descending from the M. Falcon at the spaceport and
Lisa> splattering several Stormtroopers who were entering the
Lisa> docking area? I didn't see that this time around.
Nope, my LaserDisc copies have this part. To coin a phrase and add B5
relevance, "It has always been there..."
--
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Neal Klein
Mojo,
I totally agree with you on the scene where Luke lets go and screams his
way down. It was totally out of place. I did NOT hear Luke's line to R2
on Dagobah (noisy theater). And it didn't dawn on me about showing the
Wampa scene to show that Luke did not kill the beast.
But two other items did gall me a bit. The scene at the end where Vader
takes his shuttle from the Cloud City to his ship totally breaks up the
tension and action in what is easily one of the fastest moments in the
movie. That ticked me off. The other scene was when Vader was sent
hurtling backwards in his duel with Luke, and he actually says the word,
"Damn!" instead of growling an "Argh!" (I am hoping this is just a
misperception on my part, but based on what I've seen on the newsgroups,
I wasn't imagining this.)
Joe once talked about what was involved in putting the most essential
material into a B5 episode. If this rerelease is not a good example of
what NOT to leave in or change, I don't know what is.
--
Neal Klein
no one of consequence
Jay Denebeim <dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us> wrote:
]Mojo <Mo...@foundation-i.com> wrote:
]
]>1. In TWO scenes on the Death Star, when our heroes (dressed as
]>Troopers) are shooting Imperial Guards, several frames have been cut
]>so we no longer see the lasers striking the officers. These are both
]>shots where you could see a burning hole in the actor's clothing, so I
]>assume Lucas felt these 2 scenes were just too 'violent.'
]>But I guess an arm lying on the floor is OK!
]
]Well, honestly those I didn't notice. I coulda sworn I saw the burn
]in the detension area. The one where Han runs around the corner
]though, I'll give 'em, that change was great.
I didn't like the part in Star Wars where Greebo confronts Han. Adding the
blaster shot from Greebo's gun was not necessary. He was already holding
Han at gunpoint, which was sufficient excuse for Han to blast him.
--
|Patrick Chester <*> ("VREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!") wol...@io.com|
|"Cannot run out of time. There is infinite time. You are finite. Zathras|
| is finite. This.. is wrong tool." -Zathras, "War Without End Part 2" |
|Wittier remarks always come to mind just after sending your article. |
Kyle Haight
In article <5et5so$g...@camel0.mindspring.com>,
Chuck Fullerton <nou...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> Mojo, I'm with ya on this one 100%. I was cracking up when I
>heard it, I must admit. He sounds like Wile E. Coyote falling off a
>cliff, or Fred Flintstone being licked by Dino. . .very unintentionally
>funny, and very unfortunate. yyyyaaaaaaAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! It
>isn't the fact that he *screams* (which in itself is a VERY
>questionable change to Irvin Kershner's masterpiece), it's the way he
>-sounds- doing it. A travesty, and the matted-in scene of Vader boarding
>the Star Destroyer (re-used RotJ footage) was incredibly sloppy.
Agreed. Actually, I had a different scene I wished they had added. I
wanted to see Vader's reaction to Luke taking the plunge. I have this
mental picture of Vader peering down the hole, sighing, saying
"Well... shit" and then turning away.
--
Kyle Haight
kha...@netcom.com
"We are mice, posting to Usenet in the first stages of a complex plan
to Take Over The WORLD!"
Susan
Mojo wrote:
>
> Sorry to go off topic, but I'm really wondering what all of you guys
> think of this.
>
> I'm not even going to go into the Greedo scene, since that's easy and
> obvious foder. It's some of the finer points that got me going...
>
> How many of you caught THESE changes?
>
> 1. In TWO scenes on the Death Star, when our heroes (dressed as
> Troopers) are shooting Imperial Guards, several frames have been cut
> so we no longer see the lasers striking the officers. These are both
> shots where you could see a burning hole in the actor's clothing, so I
> assume Lucas felt these 2 scenes were just too 'violent.'
> But I guess an arm lying on the floor is OK!
>
> 2. In Empire, after R2 has been shot out of the lake on Dagobah, Luke
> cleans him off and ORIGINALLY said, "You're lucky you don't taste very
> good." This has now been changed to "You're lucky you got outta
> there."
>
> I had to rack my brain to figure out WHY they would have changed this!
> I finally realized that the new line creates the implication that R2
> somehow managed to rocket *himself* out of the lake and removes any
> idea that the robot was almost eaten by a swamp creature. So, what
> was a mildly amusing moment has been castrated into a moment of no
> consequence whatsoever. Three cheers for George, who doesn't want any
> poor kiddy to be scared over what *almost* happened!
>
> 3. After Vader implores Luke (hanging on the gantry) to join the dark
> side, Luke gets go and silently plummets down the chasm of Bespin. In
> the 'special' edition, Luke now screams "AAAAaaaaaaaaa" all the way
> down! I swear I though some joker in the theater was making the
> scream until I realized it was added to the damn movie!!!
>
> This proves that Lucas just hasn't got a clue anymore when it comes to
> understanding dramatic action. The entire point of the scene is that
> a calm, resiliant Luke decides that suicide is a better alternative to
> joining Vader. He has made his decision and jumps off in defiance -
> and now a screaming yelp completely destroys all of Luke's diginity
> and ruins a brave moment.
>
> 4. At first I thought seeing the Wampa was cool, and I was especially
> surprised that Lucas would include such a graphic shot of the creature
> with his amputated arm - UNTIL I realized that it was there to remove
> any possibility that Luke had *killed* the beast, which is exactly
> what I had thought he had done in the original.
>
> I grieve for STAR WARS fans everywhere and lament that our spiritual
> father has lost his creative mind. It's hard to believe that this
> once artistic visionary has turned into such a petty, self-censoring,
> politically correct nerd.
>
> The one special effects shot that's really missing is the one in which
> George Lucas turned himself into a giant, 5-foot PUSSY!
>
> With deep anger and resentment,
>
> MOJO
> Biggest Star Wars Fan Alive
I loved what Lucas did - I have no problem at all that he wished to use
technology not available 17-20 years ago to enhance HIS (not your)
dream. You need to get a life and chill out!
Susan
---I'm still looking for my life!
HFMoon
The only two things I agree with you, Mojo, about are the Greedo scene and
the Screamin' Thru Bespin scene.
on 1) I've seen the SpecEd three times now and I do not at all recall the
scene in question being cut.
on 2) In the movie I saw in the theater on Friday, he said "Lucky you
don't taste too good." The original line. What were you watching? I am
totally open to the idea that I am wrong, that I just heard the original
line, but that he said Mojo's line.
on 4) I was always, even as a little kid, kinda clued into the fact that
Luke didn't actually kill the Wampa by three things(in the original
version):
a)Luke books ass out of the cave, and
b)the Wampa keeps screaming(yelling, roaring, whatever) after the arm hits
the ground(very short, Luke books pretty fast outta there)
c)Amputated arms aren't usually fatal.
Oh well, each of us has our own opinions(and they all stink, yes) but I
think you are going waaaayyyyyy overboard, especially in calling Lucas a
PC nerd and other such assorted sundry items. Calm down, take a pill, and
go watch the THX-enhanced version I know you have near your VCR. It'll be
o-k.
Richard, Euph
<*>
"You can't fight evil with a macaroni duck!!!"
-Arthur
Jay Denebeim
In article <33128B...@igc.apc.org>, rosita <ros...@igc.apc.org> wrote:
>Isn't protecting poor, precious, innocent, little
>kiddies by stripping away our free speech rights as much the work of
>the right-wing fundies (they *wrote* that infernal internet decency
>act; spineless Bill only signed it) as it is of the left-wing PC'ers?
That was very much bi-partisan. It was a democrat who wrote most of
it though.
J. Potts
In article <5eskip$m...@usenet79.supernews.com>,
Mojo <Mo...@foundation-i.com> wrote:
>1. In TWO scenes on the Death Star, when our heroes (dressed as
>Troopers) are shooting Imperial Guards, several frames have been cut
>so we no longer see the lasers striking the officers. These are both
>shots where you could see a burning hole in the actor's clothing, so I
>assume Lucas felt these 2 scenes were just too 'violent.'
>But I guess an arm lying on the floor is OK!
In article <5etp7c$l...@marvin.deepthot.cary.nc.us>,
Jay Denebeim <dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us> wrote:
>Well, honestly those I didn't notice. I coulda sworn I saw the burn
>in the detension area. The one where Han runs around the corner
>though, I'll give 'em, that change was great.
Yes! I loved the run around the corner bit. I had to go back to my
original tape and verify what had been there originally. :-)
>It sounds like they really eviserated Empire. That's unfortunate.
>The scream especially ruions the moment.
I haven't seen Empire yet. I'm disappointed though that Lucus messed
with that part. Most of the changes in Star Wars were pretty cool.
The sound effect when the Death Star blew up was awsome.
--
JRP
"BLONDE? Blonde? You didn't TELL me you were a blonde....."
--Gharlane of Eddore
Chris Campbell
In article <331316...@washops.llnl.gov>, nkl...@llnl.gov wrote:
>Mojo,
>
>I totally agree with you on the scene where Luke lets go and screams his
>way down. It was totally out of place. I did NOT hear Luke's line to R2
>on Dagobah (noisy theater). And it didn't dawn on me about showing the
>Wampa scene to show that Luke did not kill the beast.
The scream was not the best, but it fit with Luke's mentality at the time. I
really didn't think it was that big of a deal.
>But two other items did gall me a bit. The scene at the end where Vader
>takes his shuttle from the Cloud City to his ship totally breaks up the
>tension and action in what is easily one of the fastest moments in the
>movie. That ticked me off.
I actually thought that was a nice bridge between Vader on CC and Vader on his
SSD. I was happy to see it, though the more critical types don't seem to
be . . .
The other scene was when Vader was sent
>hurtling backwards in his duel with Luke, and he actually says the word,
>"Damn!" instead of growling an "Argh!" (I am hoping this is just a
>misperception on my part, but based on what I've seen on the newsgroups,
>I wasn't imagining this.)
Hmmm, I didn't get that at all. Sounded like a growl to me.
There were parts that grated a bit (our theatre cut off Yoda's last line, for
example), but overall I was pleased. Once I rewatched the original, I was
convinced that the movie improved overall.
Chris
Gary D. Duzan
In article <33128B...@igc.apc.org>, rosita <ros...@igc.apc.org> wrote:
=>Mojo wrote:
=>
=>By the way, when did the term "politically correct" come to mean
=>any kind of censoring whatsoever? As far as I knew, it only
=>meant special language to refer to disadvantaged groups, blacks,
=>women, disabled, etc... People seem to throw the term around
=>pretty loosely now. Isn't protecting poor, precious, innocent, little
=>kiddies by stripping away our free speech rights as much the work of
=>the right-wing fundies (they *wrote* that infernal internet decency
=>act; spineless Bill only signed it) as it is of the left-wing PC'ers?
This is drifting pretty far off topic (as if a Star Wars discussion
in a Babylon 5 group wasn't enough), but if I remember correctly,
the Decency Act in question was the brainchild of one Senator Exon,
a Democrat, who might be rather surprised to hear that he is being
referred to as a "right-wing fundie". :-) Not that there necessarily
weren't those of that particular philosophical disposition supporting
it, of course.
Gary D. Duzan
Humble Practitioner of the Computing Arts
Michael Emond
In article <5eskip$m...@usenet79.supernews.com>,
Mojo <Mo...@foundation-i.com> wrote:
>
>
>Sorry to go off topic, but I'm really wondering what all of you guys
>think of this.
>
>cleans him off and ORIGINALLY said, "You're lucky you don't taste very
>good." This has now been changed to "You're lucky you got outta
>there."
>
>3. After Vader implores Luke (hanging on the gantry) to join the dark
>side, Luke gets go and silently plummets down the chasm of Bespin. In
>the 'special' edition, Luke now screams "AAAAaaaaaaaaa" all the way
>down! I swear I though some joker in the theater was making the
>scream until I realized it was added to the damn movie!!!
Both these changes are needless and thoughtless...no not thoughtless
because too much thought went into making these awful changes. Any man
who could do this has lost his way. Now I am a little fearful of what
the next three movies will be like.
I feel a little cheated as a fan. The implication with these Special
Editions was that he would a) enhance the special effects and sound and
B) add back some original footage not c) white out little bits and
rewrite scenes.
Michael of the North
John Schilling
rosita <ros...@igc.apc.org> writes:
[snip]
>By the way, when did the term "politically correct" come to mean
>any kind of censoring whatsoever? As far as I knew, it only
>meant special language to refer to disadvantaged groups, blacks,
>women, disabled, etc... People seem to throw the term around
>pretty loosely now. Isn't protecting poor, precious, innocent, little
>kiddies by stripping away our free speech rights as much the work of
>the right-wing fundies (they *wrote* that infernal internet decency
>act; spineless Bill only signed it) as it is of the left-wing PC'ers?
Check again. Senator Exon, who wrote the CDA, is a Democrat. Three
of the four Senators who jointly sponsored it were Democrats. Most
of the congressmen who voted for it, in both houses, were Democrats.
And, of course, the President who cheerfully signed it into law, was
a Democrat.
The Republicans hardly put up a united front against the CDA, but if
you're looking for someone to blame, consider this one as evidence
that the Democrats can and do trample over Constitutionally guaranteed
rights like free speech just as readily as do Republicans.
And consider the fact that you, along with about half the people I have
ever seen comment on the matter, automatically blame the Republicans as
evidence of the vulnerability of the American electorate to political
propaganda.
The Republicans did it because the Republicans *must* have done it because
only the Republicans *do* that sort of thing? Not hardly. You fell for
the con, is all. Live and learn.
--
*John Schilling * "You can have Peace, *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * or you can have Freedom. *
*University of Southern California * Don't ever count on having both *
*Aerospace Engineering Department * at the same time." *
*schi...@spock.usc.edu * - Robert A. Heinlein *
*(213)-740-5311 or 747-2527 * Finger for PGP public key *
F Poulin
Mike Van Pelt (m...@netcom.com) wrote:
: In article <5eskip$m...@usenet79.supernews.com>,
: Mojo <Mo...@foundation-i.com> wrote:
:
: I think the problem started before Return of the Jedi. This was
: supposed to have been the Wookie home planet. We'd have gotten
: to see where Chewbacca was from, and learned more about him.
What?! Are you trying to say you weren't satisfied with "A Very Wookie
Christmas"?!
Actually, does anyone else remember this Xmas special? It involved
stormtroopers holding chewbacca's family hostage on wookie-world. My
friends recall it too, so it probably wasn't some bizarre, sugar-plum
induced hallucination...
: the Empire's minions defeated by pure stone-age people. Lucas said
"Argh! Lord Vader - they've got STICKS and - and - STONES!!!"
Gotta love that strom trooper armour - restrictive AND nonfunctional...
Re: the new Greedo scene.
Boy, Ben sure wasn't kidding when he said blasters were "clumsy"...
________
gkt.
"I'm putting the 'suck' back into SUCCESS!!!"
Shin Chyang Yu
>surprised that Lucas would include such a graphic shot of the creature
>with his amputated arm - UNTIL I realized that it was there to remove
>any possibility that Luke had *killed* the beast, which is exactly
>what I had thought he had done in the original.
I always thought he sneaked out of there while the Wampa was
not around.
rosita
Gary D. Duzan wrote:
> This is drifting pretty far off topic (as if a Star Wars discussion
> in a Babylon 5 group wasn't enough), but if I remember correctly,
> the Decency Act in question was the brainchild of one Senator Exon,
> a Democrat, who might be rather surprised to hear that he is being
> referred to as a "right-wing fundie". :-) Not that there necessarily
> weren't those of that particular philosophical disposition supporting
> it, of course.
Fair enough. The only point I was trying to make is that people on
this group and others seem to interchange "political correctness"
with "family values" in protesting how sci-fi is edited or
censored. PC began in universities with liberal intellectuals
trying to outdo each other in appearing sensitive and progressive
with regard to issues of race, gender, class, etc... Though this
can create a "holier than thou" heirarchy, many of these same
intellectuals nonetheless oppose book-banning, censorship, etc...
"Family Values," on the other hand, is where (I believe) children are
used as hostages in order to take certain freedoms away. I associate
this with right-wing book bannings, etc..., but certainly "liberals"
like Tipper Gore have gotten in on the action too. If Star Wars has
been Barneyized for kids than it seems more FV than PC to me.
Lisa
Scott Johnson
I won't go into the whole list, but I have to say I agree with MOJO. It
seems that Mr. Lucas is succumbing to the desire to further popularize and
water-down any potential complaints. I think we saw the beginning of this
trend when he made Return of the Jedi (aka "Teddy Bears in Space"), but
I think he really has gone off the deep end with the the new Star Wars, at
least. There was almost nothing new in the movie that I didn't hate.
Empire was better -- I especially liked the new footage with the wampa, it
really made a previously confusing scene better -- but again it looks like
he is dumbing down a few things (like the "you're lucky you don't taste very
good"). It's almost like now that he is older he can't stand the suggestion
of something *bad* actually happening to one of his characters!
I hope my copy of the old version on VHS lasts, because I have a feeling
those are the ones I'm going to continue watching.
I can only pray that he gets his backbone back when he makes the next three
movies...
--
Scott Johnson Email: sco...@eecs.umich.edu
Dept. of EECS, Univ. of Michigan http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~scottdj
"Do not meddle in the affairs of [techno]mages, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
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Medwyn
In article <mvpE64...@netcom.com>, m...@netcom.com (Mike Van Pelt) wrote:
<...>
>And I'm still *TICKED* that he didn't get a medal at the end of
>Episode IV.
I seem to recall an explanation offered in either the book or the comics, that
Chewie was too tall for Leia to put the medal on him. Would have been nice to
explain in the movie, though...
Anthony Stephens
Dark Knight Productions
http://www.themall.net/~darknite/dk_main.htm
Jonathan Robertson
Mojo wrote:
>
> Sorry to go off topic, but I'm really wondering what all of you guys
> think of this.
>
-snip-
> 4. At first I thought seeing the Wampa was cool, and I was especially
> surprised that Lucas would include such a graphic shot of the creature
> with his amputated arm - UNTIL I realized that it was there to remove
> any possibility that Luke had *killed* the beast, which is exactly
> what I had thought he had done in the original.
>
The one problem I've always had with this scene as it is in the
original is that I'm not sure why Luke left the cave. If he just
killed the animal, which I've always thought, and night falling,
the cave was shelter. If the animal is still alive, I can see Luke
not continuing to fight, but out of fear, running away. I'm not
saying that Luke is a coward or anything, I'm just saying that he
reacted a certain way to an animal that was not yet dead. Showing
that the animal was not yet dead helped to clear that up.
JR
Cheryl Haaker
If this drifts too far, it'll be killed by the Deadly Vorlon Moderators.
Until then... (no spoilers!)
In article <3313E0...@igc.apc.org>, rosita <ros...@igc.apc.org>
(aka Lisa) writes:
>Fair enough. The only point I was trying to make is that people on
>this group and others seem to interchange "political correctness"
>with "family values" in protesting how sci-fi is edited or
?? ... but your explanations of PC and FV make sense
>censored. PC began in universities with liberal intellectuals
>trying to outdo each other in appearing sensitive and progressive
>with regard to issues of race, gender, class, etc... Though this
>can create a "holier than thou" heirarchy, many of these same
>intellectuals nonetheless oppose book-banning, censorship, etc...
>
>"Family Values," on the other hand, is where (I believe) children are
>used as hostages in order to take certain freedoms away. I associate
>this with right-wing book bannings, etc..., but certainly "liberals"
>like Tipper Gore have gotten in on the action too. If Star Wars has
Tipper Gore is a LIBERAL?!? Since when? (and in what ways?)
c.k.haaker - N M Technet A___A
haa...@technet.nm.org ____ / o o \
345-6555 (345-6559 fax) _/~____ =^= /
"Intelligence has much less practical application than <______>__m_m_>
you'd think." -- Scott Adams, in _Dilbert_
Chris Carter
:Mo...@foundation-i.com (Mojo) wrote:
:>
:>3. After Vader implores Luke (hanging on the gantry) to join the dark
:>side, Luke gets go and silently plummets down the chasm of Bespin. In
:>the 'special' edition, Luke now screams "AAAAaaaaaaaaa" all the way
:>down!
:
: Mojo, I'm with ya on this one 100%. I was cracking up when I
:heard it, I must admit. He sounds like Wile E. Coyote falling off a
:cliff,
Wile E. never screams when falling of a cliff in Looney Tunes.
--
Chris Carter -- car...@aracnet.com Unaffiliated with aracnet.com or FOX TV.
"Error can point the way to truth, while empty-headedness can only lead to
more empty-headedness or to a career in politics." -- Master Li Kao <*>
dhe...@polaris.attmail.com
In article <33141...@nitrogen-c.themall.net>, Medwyn penned...
>In article <mvpE64...@netcom.com>, m...@netcom.com (Mike Van Pelt) wrote:
><...>
>>And I'm still *TICKED* that he didn't get a medal at the end of
>>Episode IV.
>
>I seem to recall an explanation offered in either the book or the comics, that
>Chewie was too tall for Leia to put the medal on him. Would have been nice to
>explain in the movie, though...
>
>Anthony Stephens
As I recall, they were standing at the top of the steps. When my back
is bothering me, I often put my dog's leash on her from several steps
below her; no problem. Leia could've put it on him by combining the
steps and a bit of leaning from him.
I don't buy it. Just 'cause a dog was part of the inspiration for the
wookie doesn't mean he should've been treated as a pet.
grmph
--
Dianne <*>
(who thinks her dog should get a medal for putting up with humanity some
days)
Thomas McCambley
Michael Emond (emo...@mcmail.CIS.McMaster.CA) writes:
> In article <5eskip$m...@usenet79.supernews.com>,
>>Sorry to go off topic, but I'm really wondering what all of you guys
>>think of this.
>>
>>good." This has now been changed to "You're lucky you got outta
>>there."
>
>>
>>side, Luke gets go and silently plummets down the chasm of Bespin. In
>>the 'special' edition, Luke now screams "AAAAaaaaaaaaa" all the way
>>scream until I realized it was added to the damn movie!!!
>
> Both these changes are needless and thoughtless...no not thoughtless
> because too much thought went into making these awful changes. Any man
> who could do this has lost his way. Now I am a little fearful of what
> the next three movies will be like.
I think everybody here should take two steps back from this and think
about this. Most of the fan comments I have heard here are of the "how
dare he do that to the film... variety."
Folks it's his film and his vision. If you trust Straczynski trust mister
Lucas.
FWIW, I didn't find the scream over done. Given the same circumstances I
know that I would be screaming my head off as I plunged to my death.
Cheers,
Tom McCambley
--
at...@freenet.carleton.ca -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= mcca...@algonquinc.on.ca
Tom McCambley B.Sc (Hons) NCF Star Wars SIG Guru <*>
Babylon 5 "Zen and the Art of Procrastination" Whovian
Fan at large http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~at850/index.html Gearhead
Mike Van Pelt
In article <5evrsl$f...@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>, F Poulin <fpo...@gpu2.srv.ualberta.ca> wrote:
>Mike Van Pelt (m...@netcom.com) wrote:
>:
>: supposed to have been the Wookie home planet. We'd have gotten
>: to see where Chewbacca was from, and learned more about him.
>
>What?! Are you trying to say you weren't satisfied with "A Very Wookie
>Christmas"?!
>
>Actually, does anyone else remember this Xmas special? It involved
>stormtroopers holding chewbacca's family hostage on wookie-world. My
>friends recall it too, so it probably wasn't some bizarre, sugar-plum
>induced hallucination...
AARRRGHGHGHH!!!!! BLEAHBLEAHBLEAHBLEAHBLEAHBLEAH!!!!!
Seventeen years of therapy to supress the awful memory of that horror,
and you've undone it all.
Yes, the ... thing ... existed. It wasn't intended as a story
so much as a "star-studded tribute to Star Wars" wrapped in a
tissue-thin plot, but even on those terms, it was bad, beyond
"Plan 9 From Outer Space" levels of badness. It made the "Ewok
Adventure" abominations look good. It contained such choice
segments as Mamma Wookie attempting to follow a recipe on a TV
cooking program hosted by Harvey Corman doing a "Julia Child on
Crack" impression.
None of the actual Star Wars cast showed up except as a cameo at
the very end.
Though this was made in 1979, the Wookie village looked very much
like the Ewok village, so they must have had some input from Lucas.
I suppose this was a Warning Of Things To Come....
--
Mike Van Pelt UNIX BROWSERS: BOYCOTT WEB PAGES WHICH REQUIRE DOS-ONLY PLUGINS!
m...@netcom.com Act now, before the web becomes MSDOS/Windows only!
KE6BVH Hall of Shame: Crescendo, Shockwave, Active-X.
Kay Shapero
On <Feb 24 11:21>, Mo...@foundation-i.com (Mojo) wrote;
M>Sorry to go off topic, but I'm really wondering what all of you
M>guys think of this.
Haven't seen most of them yet - I've only seen the reworked "A New Hope"
thus far. Liked some of the new stuff though like most of us I have a
better opinion of Han Solo than to think he'd let Greedo fire first. :->
I saw the original any number of times but never noticed the lasers hitting
tor not hitting he Imperial Guards in the first place, so didn't really
miss them. I did enjoy the little kangaroo-rat critters outside Mos
Eisley, and the Storm Troopers' mounts. Found the Jabba encounter amusing,
but superfluous. And it was nice to see the later encounter between Luke
and Wedge even though it kinda slowed the action at the end and I wish we'd
got to see the earlier Tatooine one.
As for the rest, thanks for the warning:
M>3. After Vader implores Luke (hanging on the gantry) to join the
M>dark side, Luke gets go and silently plummets down the chasm of
M>Bespin. In the 'special' edition, Luke now screams "AAAAaaaaaaaaa" all
M>the way down! I swear I though some joker in the theater was making the
M>scream until I realized it was added to the damn movie!!!
Now that reminds me of something that puzzled me for years. When I went to
see Empire the first time it came out, I clearly remembered Luke saying
"Never..." just as he begins to fall, and having it sort of echo behind
him. But when I saw the tape... silence. Like you I liked it better that
way anyway, but I've wondered ever since if my imagination supplied it, or
if it was on an early released print and later cut. If so, this seems an
even odder thing to do.
M>4. At first I thought seeing the Wampa was cool, and I was
M>especially surprised that Lucas would include such a graphic shot of
M>the creature with his amputated arm - UNTIL I realized that it was
M>there to remove any possibility that Luke had *killed* the beast,
M>which is exactly what I had thought he had done in the original.
Is that the snow critter he encountered on Hoth? I thought he had too -
sheesh.
But now you've got me worried - one thing I really liked about Jedi was the
fight with the Rancor under Jabba's palace, Luke's victory, and the
subsequent grief of the keeper who manifestly loved his charge. Giving it
just the hint of pathos to overcome the usual "hero slays monster"
business.
I've got a bad feeling about this...
... Only Imperial Storm Troopers are so inaccurate...
Chris Campbell
In article <33141...@nitrogen-c.themall.net>, ba...@themall.net (Medwyn) wrote:
>In article <mvpE64...@netcom.com>, m...@netcom.com (Mike Van Pelt) wrote:
><...>
>>And I'm still *TICKED* that he didn't get a medal at the end of
>>Episode IV.
>
>I seem to recall an explanation offered in either the book or the comics, that
>Chewie was too tall for Leia to put the medal on him. Would have been nice to
>explain in the movie, though...
Why would he get one? He didn't do anything; he was just Han's co-pilot.
Luke blew up the Death Star, Han made it possible. Chewie, like Wedge, was
just along for the ride.
Chris
Chris Campbell
In article <5f1m8l$mpt$1...@news.eecs.umich.edu>, sco...@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Scott Johnson)
<5etp7c$l...@marvin.deepthot.cary.nc.us> wrote:
>I won't go into the whole list, but I have to say I agree with MOJO. It
>seems that Mr. Lucas is succumbing to the desire to further popularize and
>water-down any potential complaints. I think we saw the beginning of this
>trend when he made Return of the Jedi (aka "Teddy Bears in Space"), but
>I think he really has gone off the deep end with the the new Star Wars, at
>least. There was almost nothing new in the movie that I didn't hate.
Geez, that's sad. I thought the redone effects were improvements over the
original, and though they didn't *quite* fit I did enjoy the additions to Mos
Eisley. The Greedo scene was irritating and the Jabba scene superfluous (how
is Jabba a human being, anyway?), and the engine effects really grated, but
most of the other effects/additions were pretty nifty.
>Empire was better -- I especially liked the new footage with the wampa, it
>really made a previously confusing scene better -- but again it looks like
>he is dumbing down a few things (like the "you're lucky you don't taste very
>good"). It's almost like now that he is older he can't stand the suggestion
>of something *bad* actually happening to one of his characters!
Maybe, maybe not. Empire did seem more doctored, and that was rather
annoying. I wasn't impressed with the Wampa footage (though it was nice), but
I liked all the Cloud City stuff. The redone effects on Dagobah were very
nice; the pterosaurs (or whatever they were) and the various critters were
very nice, IMO. Aside from a couple of minor jarring ponts I thought it
worked very well overall.
>I hope my copy of the old version on VHS lasts, because I have a feeling
>those are the ones I'm going to continue watching.
I compared the two within a couple hours of one another, and I have to say
that effects-wise there's no comparison. The old version just pales in
comparison to the new. It's a trade-off, though; better effects vs. a bit of
doctoring here and there. <Shrug>
>I can only pray that he gets his backbone back when he makes the next three
>movies...
Well, backbone won't have much to do with it because we'll have nothing to
compare to. It's his vision, so our opinions don't amount to much.
Chris
Chuck Fullerton
car...@aracnet.com (Chris Carter) wrote:
>In article <5et5so$g...@camel0.mindspring.com>,
>Wile E. never screams when falling of a cliff in Looney Tunes.
Ah, but you haven't seen the uncut Japanese versions! ;-)
-cHUCk
Jason B. Bell
Kay Shapero <kay.s...@salata.com> wrote in article
<1c7_970...@salata.com>...
> On <Feb 24 11:21>, Mo...@foundation-i.com (Mojo) wrote;
> M>Sorry to go off topic, but I'm really wondering what all of you
> M>guys think of this.
>
> M>dark side, Luke gets go and silently plummets down the chasm of
> M>Bespin. In the 'special' edition, Luke now screams "AAAAaaaaaaaaa"
all
> M>the way down! I swear I though some joker in the theater was making
the
> M>scream until I realized it was added to the damn movie!!!
>
> Now that reminds me of something that puzzled me for years. When I went
to
> see Empire the first time it came out, I clearly remembered Luke saying
> "Never..." just as he begins to fall, and having it sort of echo behind
> him. But when I saw the tape... silence. Like you I liked it better
that
> way anyway, but I've wondered ever since if my imagination supplied it,
or
> if it was on an early released print and later cut. If so, this seems an
> even odder thing to do.
There have apparently been quite a few variations of the originals over the
years, with slight changes made in various re-releases and video releases
and TV airings. I was really surprised the SW Special Edition didn't fix
the scene where is Vader talking to Tarkin, and makes a hand gesture AFTER
he finishes what he has to say. At least one previous version fixed this
by altering the timing of James Earl Jones's voiceover so the hand
gesturing didn't look out of place.
They've added some lines of dialogue in ESB:SE that were originally edited
out. Notice that Chewbacca growls a little more now than he originally
did. However, I have no idea if Luke's scream was old or new, though it
did sound pretty out of place to me.
> M>4. At first I thought seeing the Wampa was cool, and I was
> M>especially surprised that Lucas would include such a graphic shot of
> M>the creature with his amputated arm - UNTIL I realized that it was
> M>there to remove any possibility that Luke had *killed* the beast,
> M>which is exactly what I had thought he had done in the original.
>
> Is that the snow critter he encountered on Hoth? I thought he had too -
> sheesh.
Watch a tape of the original, you'll see you thought wrong. The Wampa
reaches out to attack Luke. Luke slashes his saber at the Wampa once. The
Wampa's severed arm is shown on the cave floor. Luke runs like hell to get
out of the cave, looking back a couple of times like he's in danger of
being pursued. The new scenes simply make this a little more obvious,
that's all.
I'm just hoping that Lucas doesn't make Boba Fett's death more certain.
That new Sarlacc with big chomping mouth worries me. (C'mon, just about
every major bad guy in the Trilogy gets offed. At least one of the
villains should be given the possibility of survival. Besides, Fett's just
too cool to die such an undignified death. :)
> I've got a bad feeling about this...
>
> ... Only Imperial Storm Troopers are so inaccurate...
"...and why did you fry poor, blind Greedo?" =)
Jason B. Bell
Jack Everett
HFMoon <hfm...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970225091...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
heavily snipped...
> on 4) I was always, even as a little kid, kinda clued into the fact that
> Luke didn't actually kill the Wampa by three things(in the original
> version):
snip...
> c)Amputated arms aren't usually fatal.
1) I beg to differ. An amputated arm without a tourniquet applied can
easily be fatal.
2) Sorry about continuing the inappropriate thread. Just couldn't help
myself on this one.
--
Jack <jeve...@wizzards.net>
"Don't ever put yourself down...there are enough bozos out there working
overtime to do that for you."
Chris Campbell
In article <01bc2491$cb29bfa0$359b89d0@jasonbell>, "Jason B. Bell" <bla...@netdoor.com> wrote:
>I'm just hoping that Lucas doesn't make Boba Fett's death more certain.
>That new Sarlacc with big chomping mouth worries me. (C'mon, just about
>every major bad guy in the Trilogy gets offed. At least one of the
>villains should be given the possibility of survival. Besides, Fett's just
>too cool to die such an undignified death. :)
I believe (not certain) that footage was added showing him escaping from the
Sarlacc. C'mon, he's a walking arsenal and he has a jet pack. How's it gonna
keep him down?
Chris
David Hocking
Jack Everett wrote:
>
> HFMoon <hfm...@aol.com> wrote in article
> <19970225091...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
>
> heavily snipped...
>
> > on 4) I was always, even as a little kid, kinda clued into the fact that
> > Luke didn't actually kill the Wampa by three things(in the original
> > version):
>
> snip...
>
> > c)Amputated arms aren't usually fatal.
>
> 1) I beg to differ. An amputated arm without a tourniquet applied can
> easily be fatal.
Well... Considering that the amputation was effected with an energy
weapon, I'd say there's a pretty good chance of cauterization. He'd more
likely die of shock than blood loss.
> 2) Sorry about continuing the inappropriate thread. Just couldn't help
> myself on this one.
Know what you mean. It's irresistable though.
D.
Chris Campbell
In article <01bc238b$dd02b620$2bbe64ce@jackever>, jeve...@wizzards.net (Jack Everett)
<19970225091...@ladder02.news.aol.com> wrote:
>
>HFMoon <hfm...@aol.com> wrote in article
><19970225091...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
>
>heavily snipped...
>
>> on 4) I was always, even as a little kid, kinda clued into the fact that
>> Luke didn't actually kill the Wampa by three things(in the original
>> version):
>
>snip...
>
>> c)Amputated arms aren't usually fatal.
>
>1) I beg to differ. An amputated arm without a tourniquet applied can
>easily be fatal.
1) Current policy in First Aid says you don't apply a tourniquet even to an
amputation, as the blood vessels tend to retract into the stub and close off.
Never, under any circumstances, use a tourniquet, folks. They're 100% bad.
Always go with pressure and elevation.
2) Lightsabers tend to cauterize wounds, so loss of blood would not be a
problem.
The main problem here would be shock, which wouldn't set in for a few minutes
if at all (we know nothing of Wompas, after all).
Chris
Jeff Vavasour
In <5f2psf$i...@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com> sank...@ix.netcom.com (Chris Campbell) writes:
>Eisley. The Greedo scene was irritating and the Jabba scene superfluous (how
I realise this is off topic, so perhaps someone could email me the answer,
but how did the Greedo scene change, in particular? I could watch the tape,
but I'm not convinced I'd've caught it. Actually, I imagine there must be
some comprehensive compilation of changes on a fan web page (the official page
doesn't count, they didn't mention *everything*).
For those who are complaining that there's a tradeoff between improved
effects and compromised scenes, the solution seems obvious to me: wait for
the special edition to show up on video, then get your original tape and
special edition tape, two VCRs, and edit together your own custom special
edition. :-)
- Jeff
Steve
On 26 Feb 1997 13:57:06 -0500, sco...@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Scott
Johnson) wrote:
>I won't go into the whole list, but I have to say I agree with MOJO. It
>seems that Mr. Lucas is succumbing to the desire to further popularize and
>water-down any potential complaints. I think we saw the beginning of this
>trend when he made Return of the Jedi (aka "Teddy Bears in Space"), but
>I think he really has gone off the deep end with the the new Star Wars, at
>least. There was almost nothing new in the movie that I didn't hate.
>Empire was better -- I especially liked the new footage with the wampa, it
>really made a previously confusing scene better -- but again it looks like
>he is dumbing down a few things (like the "you're lucky you don't taste very
>good"). It's almost like now that he is older he can't stand the suggestion
>of something *bad* actually happening to one of his characters!
>
>I hope my copy of the old version on VHS lasts, because I have a feeling
>those are the ones I'm going to continue watching.
>
>I can only pray that he gets his backbone back when he makes the next three
>movies...
>
>--
>Scott Johnson Email: sco...@eecs.umich.edu
>Dept. of EECS, Univ. of Michigan http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~scottdj
>"Do not meddle in the affairs of [techno]mages, for you are crunchy
>and good with ketchup."
>
>-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
>Version: 3.12
>GCS/E d-(+) s-:+ a- C++$ UL++++ US+++ P+ L++ E--- W++ N++ o K- w O- M- V--
>PS++ PE- Y+ PGP- t- 5+++ X-- R(+) tv+ b++++ DI++++ D--- G e++ h- r* y-
>------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>
>
Does this remind anyone of Gene Roddenberry (i.e. the differences
between TOS and TNG, etc...)?
- Steve
Mike Van Pelt
In article <01bc2491$cb29bfa0$359b89d0@jasonbell>, Jason B. Bell <bla...@netdoor.com> wrote:
>I'm just hoping that Lucas doesn't make Boba Fett's death more certain.
>That new Sarlacc with big chomping mouth worries me. (C'mon, just about
>every major bad guy in the Trilogy gets offed. At least one of the
>villains should be given the possibility of survival. Besides, Fett's just
>too cool to die such an undignified death. :)
Hmm.... If I'm not mistaken, Boba Fett is never even named in the
trilogy. He didn't appear at all in "A New Hope" (except in the
recently restored "Conversation with Jabba" scene), appeared only
to take Han Solo back to Jabba's place in "Empire", and ended up
as Sarlacc Munchies in the "Tatooine" segment of "Jedi".
He had ... what one line? Two? in Empire, and was otherwise a
non-speaking spear carrier.
I suppose I might have though Boba Fett was "cool"... if I knew
anything about him at all. This is my continuing annoyance at
Star Wars - that we should find out a lot more about some of
these characters than we do.
Alindsey
sank...@ix.netcom.com (Chris Campbell) writes:
Not to mention the fact that with one arm cut off, the poor Wompas is
going to have trouble hunting and defending its territory against others
of its species, and is likely to die a slow death by starvation. it would
have probably been kinder for Luke to kill it right there.
-Andrew Lindsey
Aaron P. Brezenski
In article <mvpE6A...@netcom.com>, Mike Van Pelt <m...@netcom.com> wrote:
>
>Hmm.... If I'm not mistaken, Boba Fett is never even named in the
>trilogy. He didn't appear at all in "A New Hope" (except in the
>recently restored "Conversation with Jabba" scene), appeared only
>to take Han Solo back to Jabba's place in "Empire", and ended up
>as Sarlacc Munchies in the "Tatooine" segment of "Jedi".
>
>He had ... what one line? Two? in Empire, and was otherwise a
>non-speaking spear carrier.
>
>I suppose I might have though Boba Fett was "cool"... if I knew
>anything about him at all. This is my continuing annoyance at
>Star Wars - that we should find out a lot more about some of
>these characters than we do.
My primary interest in the character was the fact that Boba Fett was the
only 'bad guy' in Empire who actually stood up to Vader-- and he even
survived-- when everyone else wasn't doing much else but groveling. Fett
had guts, anyway, though we did really never get to know him very well.
And of *course* Boba Fett is named in the trilogy. There's the classic
scene in RotJ when the blinded Solo hears Chewie growl something and says,
"Boba Fett? Where?"
Aaron Brezenski
"Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean there isn't someone out to get me."
Card-Carrying Member of the Illuminati
Chris Campbell
In article <mvpE6A...@netcom.com>, m...@netcom.com (Mike Van Pelt) wrote:
>In article <01bc2491$cb29bfa0$359b89d0@jasonbell>, Jason B. Bell
> <bla...@netdoor.com> wrote:
>>I'm just hoping that Lucas doesn't make Boba Fett's death more certain.
>>That new Sarlacc with big chomping mouth worries me. (C'mon, just about
>>every major bad guy in the Trilogy gets offed. At least one of the
>>villains should be given the possibility of survival. Besides, Fett's just
>>too cool to die such an undignified death. :)
>
>trilogy. He didn't appear at all in "A New Hope" (except in the
>recently restored "Conversation with Jabba" scene), appeared only
>to take Han Solo back to Jabba's place in "Empire", and ended up
>as Sarlacc Munchies in the "Tatooine" segment of "Jedi".
>
>He had ... what one line? Two? in Empire, and was otherwise a
>non-speaking spear carrier.
>
>I suppose I might have though Boba Fett was "cool"... if I knew
>anything about him at all. This is my continuing annoyance at
>Star Wars - that we should find out a lot more about some of
>these characters than we do.
Why should we find out anything about Boba Fett? He's a bit character who
happens to look nifty. There's no reason to have massive character
development in every story on the planet. Some stories are event driven and
are just as powerful as character driven stories. It all depends on what
you're looking for in a story.
Chris
rosita
This won't explain Wampa footage or Luke's scream, but I have a
friend who *swears* that there were small, seemingly inconsequential
regional differences in what minor shots were included and what
were not, when Star Wars was first released 20 years ago. She toured
the whole country seeing it 12 times in different cities and said
that there were tiny differences in the cut, from area to area in
ways that didn't seem to make much sense (it wasn't something obvious
like skirting racial issues in the South, for example). This may or
may not be true now, and may or may not affect things like graphically
revealing the results of blaster hits, but it intrigues me.
Probably just the Illuminati working in their mysterious ways....
And, Cheryl Haaker wrote:
> Tipper Gore is a LIBERAL?!? Since when? (and in what ways?)
Well *I* don't think she's a liberal, that's why I put the word in
quotes. Liberals (in my opinion) are *supposed* to support
free-speech in the arts, yet there she was slapping parental
advisories on CD's and probably would have done more if she could
have.
But she *is* married into the current Democratic ticket, her husband
is reputed to be an environmentalist (based on his book, I guess)
and this is probably enough for Rush and at least a few others to brand
her with the "L" word.
Lisa
Chris Campbell
In article <5f4rgv$r...@raven.cybercomm.net>, alin...@cybercomm.net (Alindsey)
<01bc238b$dd02b620$2bbe64ce@jackever>
Yup, likely. However, bipeds are pretty poor hunters in general, unless
they're social. Scavenging's probably the best option; tauntauns probably die
in droves during winter (unless they're not endemic, which is a possibility).
Even this would be fairly difficult, especially if the poor guy has to compete
with other Wompas. And mating is right out (what Wompa would want to mate
with someone dumb enough to lose his/her arm? Better to go with the fully
intact neighbor . . .).
Chris, who's starting to feel sorry for that poor Wompa.
Colin Blair
Jason B. Bell <bla...@netdoor.com> wrote in article
<01bc2491$cb29bfa0$359b89d0@jasonbell>...
> Kay Shapero <kay.s...@salata.com> wrote in article
> <1c7_970...@salata.com>...
> > On <Feb 24 11:21>, Mo...@foundation-i.com (Mojo) wrote;
> > M>Sorry to go off topic, but I'm really wondering what all of you
> > M>guys think of this.
<snip>
> I'm just hoping that Lucas doesn't make Boba Fett's death more certain.
> That new Sarlacc with big chomping mouth worries me. (C'mon, just about
> every major bad guy in the Trilogy gets offed. At least one of the
> villains should be given the possibility of survival. Besides, Fett's
just
> too cool to die such an undignified death. :)
>
I wasn't going to add anything but... Boba Fett does not die in the
Sarlacc. According to "Tales from Jabba's Palace" and "Tales of the Bounty
Hunters", Fett lives. Since all of the SW books are canon and are a part of
the SW Universe his living is a fact according to Lucas. If Lucas were to
change that, he would be making a continuity error.
no one of consequence
Jeff Vavasour <je...@physics.ubc.ca> wrote:
]sank...@ix.netcom.com (Chris Campbell) writes:
]>Eisley. The Greedo scene was irritating and the Jabba scene superfluous (how
]
]I realise this is off topic, so perhaps someone could email me the answer,
]but how did the Greedo scene change, in particular? I could watch the tape,
]but I'm not convinced I'd've caught it. Actually, I imagine there must be
]some comprehensive compilation of changes on a fan web page (the official page
]doesn't count, they didn't mention *everything*).
In the original scene, where Greedo threatens Han at gunpoint Han quietly
draws his blaster and shoots Greedo. In the 'improved' scene Greedo shoots
first, but misses by miles before Han blasts him.
Feh.
--
|Patrick Chester <*> ("VREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!") wol...@io.com|
|"Cannot run out of time. There is infinite time. You are finite. Zathras|
| is finite. This.. is wrong tool." -Zathras, "War Without End Part 2" |
|Wittier remarks always come to mind just after sending your article. |
BZall
Ok, so I know the SW books are lousy, but if you read some of the later
ones, you'll find that the one-armed Wampa in fact becomes a leader of his
own kind, seeking revenge on the ones who hurt him, but in the process
uniting Wampas into a force seeking their own rights.
Kind of like "The One." (And you all thought this was off-topic.)
Richard Bergstresser
Aaron P. Brezenski wrote:
> My primary interest in the character was the fact that Boba Fett was the
> only 'bad guy' in Empire who actually stood up to Vader-- and he even
> survived-- when everyone else wasn't doing much else but groveling. Fett
> had guts, anyway, though we did really never get to know him very well.
As opposed to Tarkin? Now there's a villian. I'd forgotten he actually treats Vader
as an inferior in New Hope and gets away with it. Even Vader respected this man
for some reason.
Gharlane of Eddore
In <5eskip$m...@usenet79.supernews.com>
Mo...@foundation-i.com (Mojo) writes:
>
>
>Sorry to go off topic, but I'm really wondering what all of you guys
>think of this.
>I'm not even going to go into the Greedo scene, since that's easy and
>obvious foder. It's some of the finer points that got me going...
"Fodder." "Foder" is a different word.
>How many of you caught THESE changes?
>1. In TWO scenes on the Death Star, when our heroes (dressed as
>Troopers) are shooting Imperial Guards, several frames have been cut
>so we no longer see the lasers striking the officers. These are both
>shots where you could see a burning hole in the actor's clothing, so I
>assume Lucas felt these 2 scenes were just too 'violent.'
>But I guess an arm lying on the floor is OK!
An arm lying on the floor is a good way to get over the edge on a
ratings classification. (See the original decision criteria
applied to "TIME AFTER TIME," and the subsequent set-in-stone
Official Guidelines Concerning Amputated Arms.)
>2. In Empire, after R2 has been shot out of the lake on Dagobah, Luke
>cleans him off and ORIGINALLY said, "You're lucky you don't taste very
>good." This has now been changed to "You're lucky you got outta
>there."
>I had to rack my brain to figure out WHY they would have changed this!
>I finally realized that the new line creates the implication that R2
>somehow managed to rocket *himself* out of the lake and removes any
>idea that the robot was almost eaten by a swamp creature. So, what
>was a mildly amusing moment has been castrated into a moment of no
>consequence whatsoever. Three cheers for George, who doesn't want
>any poor kiddy to be scared over what *almost* happened!
Actually, due to Lucas' vaguely increasing maturity, he has recently
become aware of the fact that someone who really works at it can read
a sexual connotation into this line, and didn't want to make what he
now views as a potentially sexual reference into a children's movie.
>3. After Vader implores Luke (hanging on the gantry) to join the dark
>side, Luke gets go and silently plummets down the chasm of Bespin. In
>the 'special' edition, Luke now screams "AAAAaaaaaaaaa" all the way
>down! I swear I though some joker in the theater was making the
>scream until I realized it was added to the damn movie!!!
That wasn't Luke screaming, it was the editor who'd just realized
that if you use monochrome color filters to look at all the colored
lights on the city walls down there, you can see some fairly
interesting comments.
>This proves that Lucas just hasn't got a clue anymore when it comes to
>understanding dramatic action. The entire point of the scene is that
>a calm, resiliant Luke decides that suicide is a better alternative to
>joining Vader. He has made his decision and jumps off in defiance -
>and now a screaming yelp completely destroys all of Luke's diginity
>and ruins a brave moment.
Absolutely. Not a moment's hesitation on agreeing with you completely
on this.
>4. At first I thought seeing the Wampa was cool, and I was especially
>surprised that Lucas would include such a graphic shot of the creature
>with his amputated arm - UNTIL I realized that it was there to remove
>any possibility that Luke had *killed* the beast, which is exactly
>what I had thought he had done in the original.
Wrong. The arm is on the ground for the same reason the arm is on
the floor in the bar in the first movie.... ratings classification.
Nothing like a bit of Detached Arm to assure the ratings classification
you want.
>I grieve for STAR WARS fans everywhere and lament that our spiritual
>father has lost his creative mind. It's hard to believe that this
Well, being a diabetic habitue of Lady White can really mess up your
sensibilities, what with the permanent restructuring of all those
mid-brain receptor sites; but even with all that self-inflicted damage,
he's still able to run his Empire with at least marginal competence.
However, he's hardly our "spiritual father."
I don't know about YOU, but *MY* intellectual family tree comes from
a gentleman named Verne, not from a kid who had the intelligence to
strike it rich by mining classic mythic archetypes, without reference
to actual script quality.
Mr. Lucas has hardly "lost his creative mind," but he *has* become
middle-aged and sloppy.
>once artistic visionary has turned into such a petty, self-censoring,
>politically correct nerd.
C'mon, Mojo, they're just MOVIES... they're not even SF, and even
Lucas never made a claim to the contrary. (Remember, he refers to
them as "Fantasy," since he's consciously aware of their conceptual
roots.)
>The one special effects shot that's really missing is the one in which
>George Lucas turned himself into a giant, 5-foot PUSSY!
>With deep anger and resentment,
Repeat after me, "It's only a movie!"
>MOJO
>Biggest Star Wars Fan Alive
Does this mean you didn't have the good sense to go see it on a pass,
on a matinee, and actually spent money to see the new footage? Sigh.
Get yourself a set of the 17 or so episodes of "THE PRISONER," and
watch those. It'll take the bad taste out of your mouth.
Neal Klein
Gharlane of Eddore wrote:
>
>
> An arm lying on the floor is a good way to get over the edge on a
> ratings classification. (See the original decision criteria
> applied to "TIME AFTER TIME," and the subsequent set-in-stone
> Official Guidelines Concerning Amputated Arms.)
>
Gharlane, for the uninformed, could you please be specific and tell us
exactly where these guidelines are? I actually love seeing these
criteria, being a factoid monster, so ye have piqued my curiosity.
>
> Actually, due to Lucas' vaguely increasing maturity, he has recently
> become aware of the fact that someone who really works at it can read
> a sexual connotation into this line, and didn't want to make what he
> now views as a potentially sexual reference into a children's movie.
>
If that's true, it's sad, really, because this children's movie shows
amputations, eviscerations, people being crushed, blown up, choked,
tortured, battered, and that's just a rough list. That reasoning implies
a double standard on what rates a film as acceptable for young viewers.
> That wasn't Luke screaming, it was the editor who'd just realized
> that if you use monochrome color filters to look at all the colored
> lights on the city walls down there, you can see some fairly
> interesting comments.
>
True Gharlane! True and pure.
> Absolutely. Not a moment's hesitation on agreeing with you completely
> on this.
>
Same here, FWIW.
>
> Wrong. The arm is on the ground for the same reason the arm is on
> the floor in the bar in the first movie.... ratings classification.
> Nothing like a bit of Detached Arm to assure the ratings classification
> you want.
>
Again, this is confusing. Wouldn't all the nasty stuff in TESB easily
qualify it for a PG rating. I can ALMOST understand ANH getting a
"boost" from the amputated arm. Aside from laser blasts and exploding
ships, there's no blood or gore. But there is the lingering shot of the
charred corpses of Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru. That's why I want to read
those guidelines ...
> Well, being a diabetic habitue of Lady White can really mess up your
> sensibilities, what with the permanent restructuring of all those
> mid-brain receptor sites; but even with all that self-inflicted damage,
> he's still able to run his Empire with at least marginal competence.
> However, he's hardly our "spiritual father."
>
> I don't know about YOU, but *MY* intellectual family tree comes from
> a gentleman named Verne, not from a kid who had the intelligence to
> strike it rich by mining classic mythic archetypes, without reference
> to actual script quality.
>
> Mr. Lucas has hardly "lost his creative mind," but he *has* become
> middle-aged and sloppy.
>
I thought he did that in ROTJ, which I won't even get into right now.
> Repeat after me, "It's only a movie!"
>
Isn't it great that even creative guys like Mojo are not immune to
making a story into one of their Gods? Hey, I'm not immune. I have an
altar to all my favorite gods just waiting for me when I get home!
>
> Get yourself a set of the 17 or so episodes of "THE PRISONER," and
> watch those. It'll take the bad taste out of your mouth.
Or it will leave you confused or, worse, aware.
--
----------------------------------
Neal Klein
Ivanova: "If I survive this without losing my mind, it will be a miracle
of biblical proportions!"
Corwin: "Well, there goes MY faith in the Almighty."
Richard Bergstresser
Mike Van Pelt wrote:
>
> Hmm.... If I'm not mistaken, Boba Fett is never even named in the
> trilogy. He didn't appear at all in "A New Hope" (except in the
> recently restored "Conversation with Jabba" scene), appeared only
> to take Han Solo back to Jabba's place in "Empire", and ended up
> as Sarlacc Munchies in the "Tatooine" segment of "Jedi".
He was named in the credits, right?
>
> He had ... what one line? Two? in Empire, and was otherwise a
> non-speaking spear carrier.
Like Eastwood in the Italian movies, silent but deadly.
>
> I suppose I might have though Boba Fett was "cool"... if I knew
> anything about him at all. This is my continuing annoyance at
> Star Wars - that we should find out a lot more about some of
> these characters than we do.
I was annoyed we got just enough buildup to think he was a kick butt hunter, then
we see him knocked over by a droid and swallowed by a plant, destroying the whole
buildup.
Richard Bergstresser
Jeff Vavasour wrote:
>
> I realise this is off topic, so perhaps someone could email me the answer,
> but how did the Greedo scene change, in particular?
>From what I hear Greedo fires first in the new version but not at all in the old one.
The theory being, that Lucas went PC, and had Greedo fire so that Han could claim self
defense. Like having a gun held on you while being threatened isn't enough. Or that Solo
needs to be that heroic for the story to work.
>
> For those who are complaining that there's a tradeoff between improved
> effects and compromised scenes, the solution seems obvious to me: wait for
> the special edition to show up on video, then get your original tape and
> special edition tape, two VCRs, and edit together your own custom special
> edition. :-)
Boy talk about obsessive fan syndrome! :)
Aaron P. Brezenski
In article <33170B...@erols.com>,
Correct. My original post should have said "in 'Empire'" rather than "in
Empire", which could be misinterpreted as me being *really* careless and
forgetting a "the".
I *wish* Tarkin would have survived to the next couple of movies. Actually,
I hope he makes one or more appearances in the prequels. I like his style.
"Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their
chances!" --famous last words of Grand Moff Tarkin
Scott Johnson
Colin Blair (cd-b...@wiu.edu) wrote:
: I wasn't going to add anything but... Boba Fett does not die in the
: Sarlacc. According to "Tales from Jabba's Palace" and "Tales of the Bounty
: Hunters", Fett lives. Since all of the SW books are canon and are a part of
: the SW Universe his living is a fact according to Lucas. If Lucas were to
: change that, he would be making a continuity error.
Are you sure about this? I remember reading that Lucas said he would not
guarantee that the books are canon, and if he felt he needed to do something
differently for the movies, he would. This has also been done before
with the Star Trek novels and movies.
A^3
Mojo (Mo...@foundation-i.com) wrote:
: Sorry to go off topic, but I'm really wondering what all of you guys
: think of this.
: The one special effects shot that's really missing is the one in which
: George Lucas turned himself into a giant, 5-foot PUSSY!
: With deep anger and resentment,
: MOJO
: Biggest Star Wars Fan Alive
I've not seen the new version yet - not ut in the UK generally until
a couple of weeks away, but I'm not that surprised. GL had vision
and courage to make SW. By the time of Jedi, when he turned the
wonderful idea of a visit to the Wookies homeworld into a bunch of
f**king teddy bears defeating a heavily armed and highly trained
elite combat unit, he'd decided to go for the mushy kiddies and
Moms audience without let or hindrance. Nothing should be allowed
to get in the way of the cutesy image. These changes MOJO is moaning
about (legitimately) are perfectly consistent with what GL did in
Jedi. This, of course, doesn't bode well for the Clone Wars (which
should by rights be much darker than the Star Wars trilogy) having
much artistic merit or as much impact as the originals had.
--
*E-mail*a...@dcs.st-and.ac.uk******* Andrew A Adams
**snail*45 Fife Park, St Andrews*** Division of Computer Science
***mail*Fife KY16 9UE, UK********** School of Maths and Comp Sci
****Tel*+44-1334-463268/589-464141* University of St Andrews
be...@cais2.cais.com
I was going to just respond to Gharlane's original post, but this one also
brings up another point that I'd like to address.
Neal Klein (kl...@washops.llnl.gov) wrote:
: Gharlane of Eddore wrote:
<snip>
: > Actually, due to Lucas' vaguely increasing maturity, he has recently
: > become aware of the fact that someone who really works at it can read
: > a sexual connotation into this line, and didn't want to make what he
: > now views as a potentially sexual reference into a children's movie.
<my response to Gharlane>
Hon, if you're looking for someone who can find sexual innuendo in the
most innocent of sentences/scenes, I'm your gal. This line didn't even
rate a 1 on my richter scale for sexual nuance (we're talking about a
robot <I refuse to call it an android> made up of metal and plastic, with
no visible sexual appendages or orifices). If the revision of this
line *was* for reasons of sexual connotation, I suggest that Mr. Lucas
needs to get out a little more often. ;)
: If that's true, it's sad, really, because this children's movie shows
: amputations, eviscerations, people being crushed, blown up, choked,
: tortured, battered, and that's just a rough list. That reasoning implies
: a double standard on what rates a film as acceptable for young viewers.
<my response to Neil>
<begin rant>
You forget one of the driving forces behind many of these double
standards, the fundamentalists. When Pat Robertson was confined to one
local station for his 700 club propaganda, the kissing scene in ST
TOS's "Plato's Step-children" between Kirk and Uhura/Spock and Nurse
Chapel was cut but the lovely torturing of these same women was left in.
Remember, it's ok to hurt/kill/maim, but sexual connotations, *especially*
if it's inter-racial are sins against God and Nature, therefore children
shouldn't be exposed to them.
In terms of the re-release of the SW trilogy, I chose not to get involved
in what I saw to be a huge waste of time and money. Having read the
comments here, I believe it was a wise decision.
I'm very disappointed in Lucas for changing scenes based on what looks to
me to be political correctness. In my opinion the scene between Solo and
Greedo was a crucial one in that it gave us a stark comparison of Solo
prior to being influenced by people who were genuine heros and altruistic.
The "new and improved" version completely negates the profound effect that
beneficent side of The Force can have.
<end rant>
--
Beth
"Always a Godmother, never a God"
- Fran Lebowitz
P.S. Gharlane please do not give me any grief regarding my spelling,
puntuation and grammar. I'm on big drugs, and you wouldn't believe how
long it took me just to write these 5 paragraphs.
Hugs & kisses.