Dead Like Me--what's the point?
Ken
of "What's the point?!" and "Get on with it!" for the past couple of weeks.
The reaper set up seems so awkward, so prone to error, I've been waiting for
an explanation. Moreover I've been waiting for SOMEONE to push Rube to
actually doing ... something. Enough with all the veiled threats. If Rube is
so big and bad, prove, show it. Why is removal of the soul not automatic
(which seems to be the all the reapers do is unlock the impending departed
and walk them a few yards to their ''final reward")? The big hype on the
series was "millions of people die everyday, but what about the souls, who
looks after them"? It certainly aint the reapers, unless you call the walk
of a few feet "care".
The closest I could see is that reapers interact with people and maybe share
their newfound appeciate of life with the living.
-- Ken from Chicago
P.S. Due to just moving and waiting for cable installation, I missed a few
episodes with Rebecca Gayheart--including the one where she left. Was there
something in those episodes that explains the purpose or the value of the
reapers?
Travers Naran
> The closest I could see is that reapers interact with people and maybe share
> their newfound appeciate of life with the living.
Not with the living, just themselves appreciating life.
> P.S. Due to just moving and waiting for cable installation, I missed a few
> episodes with Rebecca Gayheart--including the one where she left. Was there
> something in those episodes that explains the purpose or the value of the
> reapers?
That's the problem. After the first 3-4 episodes, they moved into the
meat of the story which is George finally learning how to live and
interact with people. Something she avoided doing while alive. The
problem with this series is you can't watch it the way SF fans usually
watch a show: examining the premise and rules of this world. But this
series isn't about the "rules", so if you look more deeply at the
premise, the less and less it makes sense.
Unfortunately, you end up looking at the "rules" because the character
story was so weak for so many episodes. They finally seemed to wake
up and start telling their main story with the "leap of faith" episode
and a couple before that.
Also, George's sister finds a new hobby. ;-)
The series is flawed, but interesting. Just like Carnivale.
Quiet Desperation
Naran <tna...@direct.ca> wrote:
> The series is flawed, but interesting.
I think it's just supposed to be a fun show.
I'm a big SF nitpick type, but I never even thought to deeply analyze
the premise. It's pure fantasy. We don't know enough about the show's
universe to make any real judgement on it. They have been vague enough
so that there could be some POV where it does all make sense. I mean,
the actions of our own government sometimes make far less sense. ;-)
It's not THAT complex of a setup. People die when their time comes, and
need to be released from their physical form by reapers. Releasing them
a little before they die reduces the suffering. Their souls or whatever
then move on to some other existence whose nature is a rigidly guarded
secret. A handful remain on the Earth to serve as reapers via some
selection process to which we are not privy. It's presented as a
moderately well oiled machine.
I dunno... that seems fine. They've been internally consistent for the
most part. The need for the reapers to make their own way may be part
of an overall test being conducted on them. Perhaps they've been
selected for something GREATER than normal when they finally "move on",
and are put through some tough times to toughen them up. There's lots
of ways to fill in the blanks.
Ian J. Ball
Quiet Desperation <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> In article <5b5263db.03091...@posting.google.com>, Travers
> Naran <tna...@direct.ca> wrote:
>
> > The series is flawed, but interesting.
>
> I think it's just supposed to be a fun show.
>
> I'm a big SF nitpick type, but I never even thought to deeply analyze
> the premise. It's pure fantasy.
Does it make me a bad "Skiffy guy" if I admit that this is exactly how I
approached "The X-Files", and a lot of other "Skiffy" shows?...
--
Ian J. Ball | "I can't ask my roommate because he has
TV lover, and | a work disorder." - Katie about Henry
Usenet slacker | ATWT 04/09/03
ijb...@mac.com | http://homepage.mac.com/ijball/TV.html
The Babaloughesian
news:r5Bab.3276$ev2.2...@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
ME
> of "What's the point?!" and "Get on with it!" for the past couple of
weeks.
> The reaper set up seems so awkward, so prone to error, I've been waiting
for
> an explanation. Moreover I've been waiting for SOMEONE to push Rube to
> actually doing ... something. Enough with all the veiled threats. If Rube
is
> so big and bad, prove, show it.
I don't think he actually is big and bad. Just good at talking tough and
intimidating people. As he said at some point, half the time he's just
talking out of his ass. I'm waiting to see what the hell this guy was in
life and how he died. Maybe that'll shed some light on why he's so
accepting of his job and why he seems to have a pathological aversion to
giving straight answers to simple questions. As it is, I assume all the
veiled threats are a plot device to prevent the writers from having to make
up explanations.
> Why is removal of the soul not automatic
> (which seems to be the all the reapers do is unlock the impending departed
> and walk them a few yards to their ''final reward")?
Because then there'd be no show. :)
> The big hype on the
> series was "millions of people die everyday, but what about the souls, who
> looks after them"? It certainly aint the reapers, unless you call the walk
> of a few feet "care".
I never heard any of the hype, but I've been watching it from the start, and
I'd have to say the supernatural stuff doesn't seem to be the point of Dead
Like Me. The way I see it, the point of the show is the character stuff,
and the rest is just a plot device, sort of like the alien invasion in
"Signs". I honestly don't expect them to ever provide a thorough
explanation for the mechanics and rationale of reaperdom. It's not that
kind of show, IMO.
> The closest I could see is that reapers interact with people and maybe sha
re
> their newfound appeciate of life with the living.
>
> -- Ken from Chicago
>
> P.S. Due to just moving and waiting for cable installation, I missed a few
> episodes with Rebecca Gayheart--including the one where she left. Was
there
> something in those episodes that explains the purpose or the value of the
> reapers?
Nope. The only character likely to impart any secrets of the great beyond
would be Rube, and in Gayheart's final episode, he was shown to be just as
in the dark about what happened as the rest of the cast. No secrets were
revealed. If you've got bit torrent, you shouldn't have much trouble
finding the eps you missed for download.
--
If you can't discuss a work of fiction without insulting another poster, you
deserve to die.
David Johnston
<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> Why is removal of the soul not automatic
>> (which seems to be the all the reapers do is unlock the impending departed
>> and walk them a few yards to their ''final reward")?
>
>Because then there'd be no show. :)
I've reached the conclusion that there is already no show.
Ken
"Travers Naran" <tna...@direct.ca> wrote in message
news:5b5263db.03091...@posting.google.com...
The post Rebecca Gayheart eps?
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken
"Quiet Desperation" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:190920031855108631%nos...@nospam.com...
I guess I'm ticked off by the marketing. The ads were that millions of
people die every day, but what about the souls? Who takes care of them?
Well, apparently not the reapers. The set-up seems needlessly complex.
Auto-release to directly to their "reward" would make more sense, ala GHOST.
The irritating thing is that there's this complex set-up--which don't seem
to do squat. The reapers are suppose to lead souls to their reward, but it's
not like there's some central location, or specific kind of location, the
"gateway" seem to appear at random, ala the way the portals would
conveniently show up at the end of some crisis in SLIDERS.
And there seems no purpose to the delay between death and reward. The delay
seems conveniently designed to give the reapers something to do.
That and they keep threatening Rube is some big scary hardcase, but he seems
all bluff. At least have him do ... SOMETHING ... major to engender such
fear.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken
"Ian J. Ball" <ijball***SPAM-No***@mac.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:ijball***SPAM-No***-4A6727.193...@orngca-news02.socal.rr.com...
That's the diff between sf and fantasy:
Sf is about the HOW and fantasy is about the WHY.
SF fans are drawn to the HOW, the PROCESS, the EXTRAPOLATION of bending
certan rules of science and the attending consquences. It's why even if the
plot is weak and the characters are cliche, sf fans may still like an sf
story if the writer sets up a consistant and intriguing background. In SF
the setting, the background, is crucially important. If someone can turn
invisible, can they still be touched? heard? smelt? If someone can fly, is
it a jetpack, jetboots, copter backpack, angellike wings, batlike wings,
glider wings, antigravity field? All those affect the story mechanics.
Fantasy fans are drawn to the WHY, the MEANING, the INTERPRETATION of
bending certain rules of science and attending reactions. It's why even if
physics may be weak, and the science contradictory, fantasy fans may still
like a fantasy story if the writer sets up a compelling and engaging
metaphorical context. In fantasy, the context, the metaphor, is crucially
important. If someone can turn invisible, see dark forces, or bend the will
of everyone on earth, then it doesn't matter what size your fingers are, the
ring will fit perfectly. What's important is the symbolic meaning of the
ring? or The Force?
Of course there is overlap. Fans may like sf elements of a story while
others prefer the fantasy elements.
-- Ken from Chicago
Quiet Desperation
<ijball***SPAM-No***-4A6727.193...@orngca-news02.socal.rr.com>,
Ian J. Ball <ijball***SPAM-No***@mac.com.invalid> wrote:
> Does it make me a bad "Skiffy guy" if I admit that this is exactly how I
> approached "The X-Files", and a lot of other "Skiffy" shows?...
Maybe. :-) The X-Files always pretended like there was an ultimate
answer to the mysteries on that show, and kept dropping hints. The main
series arc was ABOUT the alien conspiracy, so it was fair game for
analysis. Then we found out they were making up as they went along.
With Dead Like Me they have merely set up an unusual stage on which to
tell character driven stories, with no pretensions that the writers
harbor some sort of hidden truths about their universe that will
eventually be revealed. They may still go that way, but I'm not
expecting it like I was with X-Files.
Quiet Desperation
<kwicker_era...@ameritech.net> wrote:
> I guess I'm ticked off by the marketing. The ads were that millions of
> people die every day, but what about the souls?
They move on to another existence. That's pretty basic amongst all
major theologies in the world. They probably didn;t want to be limited
by one of the real religions, and have left it open and unknown.
> Who takes care of them?
"That's not for us to know." -Rube. ;-)
> Well, apparently not the reapers. The set-up seems needlessly complex.
Maybe. Seems fairly straightforward on the surface. The reapers are
enablers to allow the souls to, um, detach from the physical body, and
maybe provide someone to talk to to ease the transition.
The lights that appear seem tailored to each soul, hinting at some vast
and powerful system. There's no reason the afterlife has to be simple
and easy. If it actually exists, I personally prefer it not to be.
It kind of reminds me of Neil Gaiman's Sandman. Death shows up and
leads you to an afterlife. In that case the afterlife seems to be what
the soul expects it to be. Even the souls trapped in Hell were there
because they felt they deserved to ve there.
> Auto-release to directly to their "reward" would make more sense, ala GHOST.
I'm not sure if compaing one fantasy vision of the afterlife to another
fantasy vision of the afterlife is really stable ground. ;-)
> The irritating thing is that there's this complex set-up--which don't seem
> to do squat. The reapers are suppose to lead souls to their reward, but it's
> not like there's some central location, or specific kind of location, the
> "gateway" seem to appear at random, ala the way the portals would
> conveniently show up at the end of some crisis in SLIDERS.
Well now you're just writing a different show. :) It's a good idea, but
not better or worse than DLM's. Why does it have to be centralized? A
decentralized system seems more logical.
This, of course, raises the only real unanswered question: what about
people who die alone and isolated. People who fall into crevices while
mountain climbing, or are on spacecraft that break up on re-entry, or a
sinking submarine. An obvious answer is that the reapers are sent out
early enough to do their thing, but it would be nice to see that one
addressed.
> And there seems no purpose to the delay between death and reward. The delay
> seems conveniently designed to give the reapers something to do.
Not sure I agree. In every case of a delay so far there was some final
thing for the departing soul to learn or do or see.
> That and they keep threatening Rube is some big scary hardcase, but he seems
> all bluff. At least have him do ... SOMETHING ... major to engender such
> fear.
That's subjective, I guess. I like his "tough love" approach. No need
to make him spout brimstone.
Paul Moore
"Ken" <kwicker_era...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:r5Bab.3276$ev2.2...@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
DEAD LIKE ME
> of "What's the point?!" and "Get on with it!"
It's fantasy entertainment with some isnight into the human
condition. I think the point is that if you don't learn about
life while living it you have to learn after you die, as George
does. It gets a little weepy at times, silly at others, but all
in all it seems quite entertaining, and leagues above most of the
dreck we see on TV these days.
Barry Margolin
Quiet Desperation <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > Well, apparently not the reapers. The set-up seems needlessly complex.
>
> Maybe. Seems fairly straightforward on the surface. The reapers are
> enablers to allow the souls to, um, detach from the physical body, and
> maybe provide someone to talk to to ease the transition.
I think the real premise may be that this is mostly for the benefit of
the reapers, not the people they're guiding. The reapers are getting
life lessons from the people who die, as well as all the bureaucractic
nonsense they have to deal with (last week's test, this week's
cataloguing).
The people who become reapers are apparently people who didn't learn the
right lessons during their original lives, so they need to stick around
doing this until they "get it". And the situation is set up so that if
they don't do this job, and hence miss the opportunities being given to
them, nasty things happen to the souls of the people they're supposed to
guide, and this motivates them.
--
Barry Margolin, bar...@alum.mit.edu
Level(3) Communications, Woburn, MA
Chicago Turk
>From: rgo...@telusplanet.net (David Johnston)
>Date: 9/20/03 4:09 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3f6c1b73...@news.telusplanet.net>
I kinda like it, if only for the quirky premise. The Reapers work for a large,
faceless bureaucracy with invisible rules and protocols. In almost every
episode, one of the Reapers tries something that at least stretches those
rules: trying to prevent someone's passing, jumping into someone else's Heaven,
pulling a soul out of a still living person, etc.
Georgia is more alive as a dead Reaper than she was while living. So she is
growing as a person, strange as that sounds. And she uses her knowledge and
situation to quietly help her family.
The other Reapers are resigned to their fates, and keep working, the way a lot
of people keep working in jobs they dislike so they can get their pensions.
But they also scheme to live while they are Reapers, finding apartments,
looking for paying jobs, pursuing hobbies, etc.
With all the in-your-face stuff thrown from the tv screen these days, I
appreciate the slower, more deliberate pace of Dead Like Me.
Turk
Podkayne Fries
<ijball***SPAM-No***@mac.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>Does it make me a bad "Skiffy guy" if I admit that this is exactly how I
>approached "The X-Files", and a lot of other "Skiffy" shows?...
Yes, it does. Please turn in your testicles at the door as we cannot
allow you to breed.
--
Regards, Podkayne Fries
Death before ducks out of row.
Ian J. Ball
fr...@fairfieldi.com (Podkayne Fries) wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 02:35:15 GMT, "Ian J. Ball"
> <ijball***SPAM-No***@mac.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> >Does it make me a bad "Skiffy guy" if I admit that this is exactly how I
> >approached "The X-Files", and a lot of other "Skiffy" shows?...
>
> Yes, it does. Please turn in your testicles at the door as we cannot
> allow you to breed.
Hey, no problem!! :)
Muttstain
I have not enjoyed the last few eps much, and I wonder if that is due in part
to the "creative differences" that sent him packing.
-Matt
jayembee
It was right after the pilot, or within a couple of episodes of it.
-- jayembee