Pixar is evil, and must be stopped.
Buzz Lightyear
Gritz writes BMRT at university. It is given away free to students.
Gritz goes to work for Pixar; develops prman a great deal
BMRT becomes the de-facto standard for people wanting to learn
Renderman without shelling out $5000.
Gritz becomes frustrated with Pixar and prman development; leaves with
Pharr/Kolb to form Exluna.
prman stagnates and has no major features added in nearly two years
Entropy released and competes with Pixar directly
Pixar announces minor new feature set for prman 10
Pixar understandably pissed about Entropy; sues Exluna.
Pixar suddenly announces new prman to be available in six months;
same feature set as Entropy.
Entropy moderately succesful; Pixar sues Gritz/Pharr/Kolb PERSONALLY
Entropy and BMRT forced off the market.
Forget the lawyers, forget the fairness of the lawsuit, forget the
Microsoft-esque business practices. What remains is this: Entropy
directly affected Pixar's market share and allegedly contained IP from
Pixar...this is understandable on Pixar's part considering that all
three Exluna partners used to develop prman. Apprantly, it was easier
for Exluna/Nvidia to stop developement of Entropy than fight Pixar in
court.
HOWEVER: BMRT does NOT compete with prman or Pixar (no studios use it
alone in production). It is a fundamentally different animal than
prman (raytracer vs. fast optimized copyrighted REYES renderer). It is
primarily used by students. WHY has Pixar forced BMRT from the market?
What are they worried about? And what are WE as BMRT uses going to do
about it? What are we going to do to Pixar? Exluna doesn't have BMRT
on their web site...but should that stop SOMEONE ELSE from
distributing it? What about the BMRT shaders on renderman.org? Will
Tal have to take them down? Pixar stopped development of Vectorman 6
or 7 years ago...but we are not allowed to use RGL (the only software
with similar functionality)? This is INFURIATING!
I urge everyone here to STOP using Pixar's prman. Or better yet, use
pirated copies. Find stolen software, and let other students know
where to find it. Email rende...@pixar.com and let them know you're
pissed. Ask for alternatives to a free BMRT now that they've destroyed
it.
Stephan Haidacher
...
take a look on AIR http://www.sitexgraphics.com pretty fast, high
quality, and a really low price....
--stephan
Brian Perry
Exluna and Nvidia has decided not to distribute it anymore. Maybe it just
wasn't working and they decided to get out. The Pixar lawsuit may not have
had anything to do with it. We'll probably never know.
Brian Perry
"Buzz Lightyear" <diepi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5990ab83.02072...@posting.google.com...
Alex Segal
They don't seem to have any reason to do so.
--
Alex Segal, RMC Advertising
+7(3472)525966, 533133
al...@r-m-cNOSPAM.ru http://www.r-m-c.ru
"Brian Perry" <brianper@nospam_pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:d7n19.19076$nY7.20...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Philippe Leprince
I have a few things to say about your post...
- loss of BMRT is definitely a problem for students, but there are
alternatives like 3Delight, Aqsis or Air.
- I tend to believe that if Exluna's position was valid in this lawsuit,
a large company like Nvidia would have done whatever it takes to keep
Entropy on the marketplace.
- BMRT was enhanced while LG was at Pixar. Proof is the creation of the
Ray-Server functionnality or the fact that BMRT's noise lines up
perfectly with PrMan's.
It's not about competition, it's about intellectual property. Maybe
Larry wasn't cautious enough : we all make mistakes now and then.
- we own both prman and entropy licenses here and we moderately like the
idea of using dead software. We also feel sorry for Larry and his team,
but I believe he will come back soon.
- If Pixar hadn't created the RI, you wouldn't be here in the first
place.
- I like people to sign that kind of statement with their own name.
Philippe Leprince
sfx td
mikros image
waldomac
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philippe Leprince" <plep...@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.rendering.renderman
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:43 AM
Subject: Re: Pixar is evil, and must be stopped.
> dear Buzz,
>
> I have a few things to say about your post...
>
> - I tend to believe that if Exluna's position was valid in this lawsuit,
> a large company like Nvidia would have done whatever it takes to keep
> Entropy on the marketplace.
I agree with NVidia probably wishing they could just keep Entropy on the
marketplace. It would, after all, mean instant profit to help pay back their
investment. However, likely it simply is not possible, because of the next
statement, with which I also agree, that functionalities were added to BMRT
after Larry went to Pixar.
Probably best for Larry to let it drop.
>
> - BMRT was enhanced while LG was at Pixar. Proof is the creation of the
> Ray-Server functionnality or the fact that BMRT's noise lines up
> perfectly with PrMan's.
> It's not about competition, it's about intellectual property. Maybe
> Larry wasn't cautious enough : we all make mistakes now and then.
>
> - we own both prman and entropy licenses here and we moderately like the
> idea of using dead software. We also feel sorry for Larry and his team,
> but I believe he will come back soon.
I don't know that we should actually "feel sorry" for Larry and his team.
They did have a choice, I'm sure, in their own destiny. I was happy to talk
to David Higham, a member of the Exluna gang, at SIGGRAPH. The whole team,
that's all 10 of them, are part of NVidia, but, in this case, as a
10-member, Berkeley-Based group.
They're all together still, they are in the location of their own initial
choosing, and, whereas they are concerned about how they can get the green
light to work on a renderer they all love, now that the NVidia behemoth has
such a large say, they don't seem to be any less well fed.
This is a particularly talented team we're talking about. We can grouse all
day about the demise of Entropy and BMRT -- and, believe me, I'm not pleased
about it either --, but we'd more effectively support the Exluna team now to
appeal directly to NVidia: We should tell them that we're not all real-time
junkies, and an awesome renderer for production work would be beneficial to
the NVidia business plan.
>
> - If Pixar hadn't created the RI, you wouldn't be here in the first
> place.
Absolutely true statement. Pixar came first. Larry gave us a free renderer
in BMRT -- and, let's not forget, a WINDOZE renderer to boot, for those of
us who couldn't get an SGI system at Sam's Club, much less our own pet
computer stores -- and the RenderMan standard is the direction most of us on
this list wish to go.
>
> - I like people to sign that kind of statement with their own name.
Here I'd have to say I actually rather like Buzz Lightyear. I can't believe
you'd suggest a space ranger would not use his real name, Philippe. I mean,
really. ;-)
John McCulloch
Brian Perry
news:ai5eib$dk3$1...@www.ufanet.ru...
> I personally don't believe it was NVidia's idea to stop Entropy and BMRT.
Probably not, I'm not saying Nvidia had anything to do with it, just that we
really don't know what happened. :)
Brian
Richard Lawler
news:20020730104...@fx-08.mikrosimage.fr...
> - I tend to believe that if Exluna's position was valid in this lawsuit,
> a large company like Nvidia would have done whatever it takes to keep
> Entropy on the marketplace.
Perhaps NVidia needed something (like a patent license) from Pixar, and
perhaps NVidia agreed to discontinue distribution of Entropy and BMRT in
exchange for that something. This is the kind of thing "large companies" do
from time to time. Just because NVidia/Exluna appear to have capitulated
doesn't imply that Exluna was in the wrong.
- Richard Lawler
Buzz Lightyear
over that.
Folks here have made good points about reasons why it might have been
Nvidia that removed Entropy from the market. And that Gritz definitely
put some Pixar features into BMRT while at Pixar (no doubt using Pixar
IP).
But consider this: Pixar had no problems allowing other studios to use
BMRT in production while Gritz worked for them. Pixar recieved no
royalties when BMRT was used in "Woman on Top" or other films.
But as soon as Exluna threatened Pixar's cash flow with Entropy, not
only was Entropy destroyed, BMRT was ruined as well. My main question
is, why destroy BMRT? Why force software...SHAREWARE...that was mainly
a learning tool off the market?
Because someone at Pixar didn't like the Exluna guys. Because Pixar
had a grudge. Because Pixar is evil.
There has also been talk of the other cheap RenderMan renderers out
there (Air, 3Delight, etc). What should stop Pixar from sueing THOSE
people? If a large company like Nvidia can't win lawsuits against
Pixar, you better believe those smaller companies won't either.
Pixar is evil, and must be stopped.
=]
Michael Goldfarb
"Brian Perry" <brianper@nospam_pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:d7n19.19076$nY7.20...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> Exluna and Nvidia has decided not to distribute it anymore. Maybe it just
> wasn't working and they decided to get out. The Pixar lawsuit may not have
> had anything to do with it. We'll probably never know.
>
> Brian Perry
>
this was posted on the mayaman listserv today:
<quote>
On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 07:05:20AM +1000, Alan Pike wrote:
>
> Larry..can you comment on whether or not the legal
> matters stemming from your previous employer had
> anything to do with Entropy (and BMRT) evaporating as
> a product? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Yes, of course, in fact that's the *only* reason for the evaporation.
Come on, we would never choose to get rid of the products, and neither
would NVIDIA. It was all about the lawsuit (which, incidentally,
named several of the founders as individual defendants, in addition to
simply suing the company).
-- lg
--
Larry Gritz Exluna
l...@exluna.com Berkeley, CA
(for personal email, please use l...@larrygritz.com)
</quote>
thanks SJ and Pixar!
it's ironic how much SJ/Apple are resembling M$, and how much Pixar is
starting to look like Disney...oh oh...how much do I have to pay to mention
ALL those companies in the same sentence?
this whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth
--
Michael Goldfarb
Maya TD | Compositor
AurenyA Entertainment Group
mgol...@aurenya.com
www.aurenya.com
Kawaldeep Grewal
diepi...@yahoo.com (Buzz Lightyear) wrote:
: Folks here have made good points about reasons why it might have
: been Nvidia that removed Entropy from the market. And that Gritz
: definitely put some Pixar features into BMRT while at Pixar (no doubt using
: Pixar IP).
that's a loaded statement, and one without any presented proof.
Also, it insults the character of someone who is highly respected
in this field. You won't garner any sympathy for your cause with
these sorts of statements.
Kawaldeep
if you desire to correspond via email, please replace berzerkeley with berkeley
Roman Hartmann
I also think that Exluna was in fact getting some (still small) market for
their high-end-renderer Entropy, and that made some people at Pixar
(probably ) a bit nervous. They saw that Entropy offers almost the same
features that PRman does, at a much lower price. This is of course a bit of
speculating, but I don't think that anybody here thinks that Entropy is a
bad render-engine.
From the view of Pixar it seems understandable that they wanted to get
Exluna and Entropy out of the way.
But I really can't understand the thing about BMRT. A lot of people learnt
CGI with the help of BMRT and work now with PRman.
So the reason why they forced BMRT out of market isn't understandable at
all.
Some people her claim that the loss of BMRT is not that bad, because there
are still other render-engines as well. 3Delight, Air ...
But for how long?
What stopps Pixar in doing the same thing again? Some think that we (the
CGI-community) should write our own (Render-man-compatible) render-engine.
Why? It's already been done. So doing the same thing again and again doesn't
make a lot of sense to me. (Although it might be a lot of fun, beside a hell
lot of work).
I wouldn't wonder to see vanish other renderers as well.
Regards
Roman
"Buzz Lightyear" <diepi...@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:5990ab83.02072...@posting.google.com...
Kevin Smith
>
> But as soon as Exluna threatened Pixar's cash flow with Entropy....
You keep saying this. I want to know how you presume to know it is
true? We have almost 1000 prman licenes, we have no Entropy
licenses.
"Entropy is really cool"
is not the same as
"it makes good business sense to replace PRMan with Entropy at my facility"
Besides, PRMan sales are what percentage Pixar's share of Monsters'
$300M box? Not much would be my guess.
Brian Perry
call it "nTropy" :)
Brian Perry
"Michael Goldfarb" <arc...@nucleus.com> wrote in message
news:3d4744ac$1...@news.nucleus.com...
Klaus Elmquist Nielsen
>
> I guess I can take back my comments. Maybe they can make a new renderer and
> call it "nTropy" :)
May I suggest "nTrophy" :-)
Ivan DeWolf
founders could in fact defend themselves from the lawsuit, but it
would take a two year concentrated effort. Tying the three founders
up in a courtroom for two years would be more destructive than being
forced to kill the product and start from scratch. so they submitted
to pixars wishes. This is all rumor/conjecture, and may in fact not be
a fully accurate picture, which nobody involved is allowed to discuss.
As I understand it, they are considering what their next step is. I
only hope that a high-quality renderer is on their list, there are few
places with a better brain trust gathered for this subject than
exluna.
-Ivan
"Richard Lawler" <rich...@well.com> wrote in message news:<F1B19.35896$AE1.11...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>...
Mark Story
>Ivan DeWolf wrote:
>
<snip>
> I
> only hope that a high-quality renderer is on their list, there are few
> places with a better brain trust gathered for this subject than
> exluna.
I couldn't agree more!
Kudos to exLuna and much success in the future!
--Mark
> -Ivan
>
> "Richard Lawler" <rich...@well.com> wrote in message news:<F1B19.35896$AE1.11...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>...
> > "Philippe Leprince" <plep...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:20020730104...@fx-08.mikrosimage.fr...
> > > - I tend to believe that if Exluna's position was valid in this lawsuit,
> > > a large company like Nvidia would have done whatever it takes to keep
> > > Entropy on the marketplace.
> >
> > Perhaps NVidia needed something (like a patent license) from Pixar, and
> > perhaps NVidia agreed to discontinue distribution of Entropy and BMRT in
> > exchange for that something. This is the kind of thing "large companies" do
> > from time to time. Just because NVidia/Exluna appear to have capitulated
> > doesn't imply that Exluna was in the wrong.
> >
> > - Richard Lawler
--
__________________________
Mark Story
Digital Cinema Arts
P.O. Box 23638
Flagstaff, Arizona
86002
John Doe
and owned by Pixar. Whatever happened to FREE SPEECH. Is this a
democracy only for RICH COMPANIES