Vienna Classicists
Steve Dyer
>>I just don't have the ears to appreciate the unreconstructed
>>serialists of the 60's and before.
>but Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern, you mean you don't hear their style
>through the technique (how is that possible, even?) or you just don't
>like their style?
Well, I was really thinking of the kind of anonymous serialism churned out
in the 50's and early 60's. You know, by composers whom you can't remember
anymore. The three you mentioned (all of whom I have enjoyed, although
they're not as great as Copland and Bernstein [yuk-yuk]) didn't have to
write in that style to get tenure... :-)
--
Steve Dyer
dy...@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
dy...@arktouros.mit.edu, dy...@hstbme.mit.edu
Dan R. Greening
>In article <52...@spdcc.SPDCC.COM> dy...@spdcc.COM (Steve
>Dyer), that apparent musical Phillistine :-), shocks me with:
>>And, like it or not, I have a rather fond spot in my heart
>>for Appalachian Spring. You see, my college roommate
>>insisted that I listen to it during my first acid trip...
>
>Oh, the old days. I listened to Bowie and to Brian Eno.
No New Riders of the Purple Sage or Grateful Dead for this one. "Music for
Airports" anaesthetic doesn't create Smurfs. Copland? Feh. Vivaldi? Right.
Shostakovich. 15th Symphony. Kids, don't try this at home.
That and Karen Carpenter: "Funny, but it seems like that's the only thing
to do. Run and find the one who lo--oves me."
Arnold, send me those handcuffs and the telephone repairman before I make
the frequent-poster list!
____
\ /Dan Greening IBM T.J.Watson Research Center NY (914) 784-7861
\/ dgr...@cs.ucla.edu Yorktown Heights, NY 10598-0704 CA (213) 825-2266
Jess Anderson
In article <52...@spdcc.SPDCC.COM> dy...@spdcc.COM (Steve
Dyer), that apparent musical Phillistine :-), shocks me with:
>I'll probably get strung up by fans of serialism, but I find
>the late experiments by Copland and Stravinsky in this genre
>a lot more interesting than the composers who started out
>that way, if only because you can hear their style shine
>through the technique.
>I just don't have the ears to appreciate the unreconstructed
>serialists of the 60's and before.
Tskorama! What a thing to say!
I mean, nothing against the serial works of Copland or
Stravinski (great stuff for sure, and I don't think they
were experiments, either), but Schoenberg, Berg, and
Webern, you mean you don't hear their style through the
technique (how is that possible, even?) or you just don't
like their style?
You must go back to these things and try them again, I
think. You're missing out on some *incredible* gems, old
friend.
>And, like it or not, I have a rather fond spot in my heart
>for Appalachian Spring. You see, my college roommate
>insisted that I listen to it during my first acid trip...
Oh, the old days. I listened to Bowie and to Brian Eno.
Oh orange barrels, oh windowpane, oh purple microdots,
oh gold blotter, oh oh oh. And sex! ohmyohmyomyohmy!
--
Jess Anderson Madison Academic Computing Center University of Wisconsin
Work: Rm. 3130, 1210 West Dayton St., Madison WI 53706, Ph. 608/262-5888
Home: 2838 Stevens St., 53705, 608/238-4833 Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Internet: ande...@macc.wisc.edu UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
Arnold Zwicky
"dan greening" is the person who recently posted (we paraphrase),
to bbc: "this is your mother speaking; stop reading and posting
on soc.motss and study for your quals." we believe we are witnessing
a cub-smurf transference effect. this is potentially much worse
than the asmodeus-smurf transference phenomenon recently observed,
since it is significantly sweeter. (everyone knows sweet-and-sour
is piquant and delightful; sweet-and-sweet just rots your teeth.)
we advise avoiding rn, r, and (especially) f in the vicinity of
this character, at least until his dissertation has been submitted.
do not submit to charming protestations; they will only put him
into the list of top-30 posters, and then some sort of monster-mutant
jess-creature might emerge.
the fact that the shade of karen carpenter has been invoked is
ominous. k.c. cults, involving barbecued ribs, calvin trillin but not
klein, enthusiastic catholics [note motss-relevance!], some of them at
the bat, donovan in porn flicks, and worse, are the bane of modern
urban life. they have made us prisoners of pachelbel, forever
canonized, prisoners of second avenue neil simon and garfunkel farkle
sparkle plenty more where that came from russia with love child
harold prince of darkness at noon -e knows the trouble i've seen
them come and i've seen them go man go papaya breadfruit fairy
ring around the rosy dawn pawn fawn hall your ass man...
George Madison
>do not submit to charming protestations; they will only put him
>into the list of top-30 posters, and then some sort of monster-mutant
>jess-creature might emerge.
Heaven knows, the one we've already got is more than enough.
[ George Madison, a/k/a George The Bear, a/k/a Furr 8-{)] ** BEAR POWER! ** ]
[fu...@pnet12.cts.com |NBCS:B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv PIG 8/7| ucsd!serene!pnet12!furr]
[> GEnie: GEORGE.M | Ursinophiles And Barbophiles Unite! | PLink: BEARDLOVER <]
``I've been in love ten thousand times,
Now all I've got to do is remember my lines....''
--- _Give It Up_, ZZ Top
Jess Anderson
]In article <1990Dec7.0...@macc.wisc.edu>
]ande...@udder.macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
]>but Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern, you mean you don't hear their style
]>through the technique (how is that possible, even?) or you just don't
]>like their style?
]Well, I was really thinking of the kind of anonymous
]serialism churned out in the 50's and early 60's. You know,
]by composers whom you can't remember anymore.
Ah, the copycats of no great talent. Now I follow your point.
]The three you mentioned (all of whom I have enjoyed,
]although they're not as great as Copland and Bernstein
][yuk-yuk])
<gasp!>
]didn't have to write in that style to get tenure... :-)
That two-horned toad, tenure, source of so many benefits,
source of so many liabilities, even more in the arts than
in the humanities, if such a thing is possible.
Jess Anderson
In article <1990Dec7.0...@cs.ucla.edu>
dgr...@squid.cs.ucla.edu (Dan R. Greening) smurfles:
>"Music for Airports" anaesthetic doesn't create Smurfs.
Muzak does.
Asmodeus
>twentieth century american greats was that Schoenberg, the inventor of
>the 12-tone system
Schoenberg did not invent the 12-tone scale.
>Compared to other composers of his time, Copeland used less dissonance, and
Indeed. That is a nice way to put it.
>perhaps that makes him easier to listen to than, say, Charles Ives whose
Pretentious easy listening. That was Copland.
>Putnams Camp/Redding/Connecticut sounds like two marching bands passing
>[ ... ]
>((even a gray ghost cat ;) )) sound like Chopin!
A beautiful blue melody wafted up and down!
--
"You probably go to museums and complain that Monet pressed down
too hard with his crayons because the picture is all bumpy."
-- John Woods
Asmodeus
>Oh, you didn't mean Buechner?
Hehehe ...
>Give me the video rights and we'll clean up!
We probably would at that.
>Probably easy enough to do in Bloomington?
They've done it before, and quite well. I expect it will be the
best production of the season. The best voices here have been
cast. I may well end up going to all four performances.
I've never seen Lulu; I'd just love to, though.
Asmodeus
>I taped the Met production (cheesy VCR back then, so the recording stinks,
>but it's still wonderful). I should lend you it.
Oh please ... pretty please with Hacksaw cum on it? Please?
Bob Donahue
>In article <53...@spdcc.SPDCC.COM> dy...@spdcc.COM (Steve Dyer) writes:
>Oh please ... pretty please with Hacksaw cum on it? Please?
You know, maybe we should start a soc.motss.fan.hacksaw... and
mail all of the postings to him. He could find himself quite an electronic
escort service all the places he gets to travel... I bet those hotel rooms
get pretty un-homey after a while. And all he'd have to do here is promise
not to maim Waldeaux...
Sigh...
'Course Arn Anderson is quite an acceptable substitute...
BBC, feeling rather
warm on a Sunday morning
Jess Anderson
>There's something vaguely disturbing about George and the Vienna
>Classicists appearing together ...
Jawohl, Herr Hauptmann.
Oh, you didn't mean Buechner?
>sign me,
>dying to see Wozzeck while fucking on a park bench ...
Give me the video rights and we'll clean up!
Der Mond, der Mond ist *Blut*!
Probably easy enough to do in Bloomington?
--
Jess Anderson
>>There's something vaguely disturbing about George and the Vienna
>>Classicists appearing together ...
>Oh, you didn't mean Buechner?
Or Stefan, for that matter.
Asmodeus
Classicists appearing together ...
sign me,
dying to see Wozzeck while fucking on a park bench ...
--
SHAWN HICKS
elsewhere near his end... I do know that one of the major ironies of the
twentieth century american greats was that Schoenberg, the inventor of
the dates are bit fuzzy, but then Copeland wrote his last composition when
I was -almost- two years old.
Compared to other composers of his time, Copeland used less dissonance, and
perhaps that makes him easier to listen to than, say, Charles Ives whose
Putnams Camp/Redding/Connecticut sounds like two marching bands passing
each other playing completely different tunes, in different piches, and in
a different meter. FYI, that is what it's -supposed- to sound like. While
it achieves some interesting harmonies.... it also makes a cat on a piano
((even a gray ghost cat ;) )) sound like Chopin!
//B//
Steve Dyer
Sometime at the beginning of the 80's (forget when), we went through a
_Lulu_ of a year. Within the space of about 6 months, we quite by
accident ended up seeing the Met's production (with Migenes-Johnson
subbing at the last minute for Stratas), a disatrous staged play based
on Wedekind's stories at the ART in Cambridge, two Louise Brooks films
(Pandora's Box and something else), and a student production of the opera.
Wasn't too much at all.
I taped the Met production (cheesy VCR back then, so the recording stinks,
but it's still wonderful). I should lend you it.
/Steve
SHAWN HICKS
>
>>twentieth century american greats was that Schoenberg, the inventor of
>>the 12-tone system
>
>Schoenberg did not invent the 12-tone scale.
>
>
Correction: Schoenberg DID invent the 12-tone system.
Pg 237, MUSIC: An Appreciation, by Roger Kamien
"...Schoenberg felt the need for a more systematic approach to atonal
composition, and during the early 1920s he developed the twelve-tone system
, a new technique of pitch organisation. This system gives equal prominence
to each of the tweleve chromatic tones, rather than singling out one pitch
, as the tonal system does. For about twenty years, only Schoenberg and a
few desciples used the twelve-tone system, but during the 1950s it came
to be used by composers all over the world."
I admit the possibility that the author of this college textbook is wrong.
If you have any information of where I might find proof of an error, I
would apreciate it. In fact, if you want, I'll Email you the publishers
adress and you can tell him the location of that information as well.
Copland... pretentious??? Just because he doesn't make his horns bleat
like horny sheep, and his flutes sound like tortured sparrows, doesn't
mean he's "pretentious easy listening." Sometimes I don't want my music
to challenge me... sometimes I want to relax and enjoy.
P.S. I never found dissonant music compatible with a romantic encounter with
a MOTSS.
___
\ \________________
| |_______________> InterNet: bali...@uns-helios.nevada.edu
/__/ //Ballistik// B0 c+ k s- e h+ r
Asmodeus
>"...Schoenberg felt the need for a more systematic approach to atonal
>composition, and during the early 1920s he developed the twelve-tone system
>, a new technique of pitch organisation
Oh, new for Western music perhaps. That's not inventing it.
Pretty ethnocentric little textbook you've got there.
>to challenge me... sometimes I want to relax and enjoy.
If I want to hear "Swing Low Sweet Chariot," I will listen to it.
There's nothing enjoyable about listening to something taken out
of its musical context and shoved into another -- certainly no
different from Brahms done a l'elevator.
>P.S. I never found dissonant music compatible with a romantic encounter with
>a MOTSS.
So?
--
"Go away until you have spent a month walking hand in hand in public with
someone of the same sex. After you survive that, then I'll hear what you
have to say about queer anger. Otherwise, shut up and listen." -- QRT
SHAWN HICKS
>
>>"...Schoenberg felt the need for a more systematic approach to atonal
>>composition, and during the early 1920s he developed the twelve-tone system
>>, a new technique of pitch organisation
>
>Oh, new for Western music perhaps. That's not inventing it.
>Pretty ethnocentric little textbook you've got there.
I see... well then might I ask to be told who else used the 12 tone system
and when? You speak as if you have more accurate information. Don't horde
it...
>>to challenge me... sometimes I want to relax and enjoy.
>
>If I want to hear "Swing Low Sweet Chariot," I will listen to it.
>There's nothing enjoyable about listening to something taken out
>of its musical context and shoved into another -- certainly no
>different from Brahms done a l'elevator.
Whether something is enjoyable or not depends on the person listening to
it. I find elevator music (musak) disgusting. On the other hand I have
heard J.S.Bach performed in modern ways that gave it depth and meaning.
Would you classify Smetana's Moldau as pretentious??? I could draw some
easy comparisons between Smetana and Copland.
>>P.S. I never found dissonant music compatible with a romantic encounter with
>>a MOTSS.
>
>So?
So lighten up! Jeeez! :) Imagine trying to get a constant 'beat' going in
the midst of some atonal, meterless piece resembling the audio track to
"How to torture an Orchestra in one easy lesson."
Ken Dykes
>In article <53...@spdcc.SPDCC.COM> bo...@spdcc.COM (Asmodeus) writes:
>>In article <24...@unsvax.NEVADA.EDU> bali...@uns-helios.nevada.edu (SHAWN HICKS) writes:
>>
>>>the 12-tone system
>>
>>Schoenberg did not invent the 12-tone scale.
>>Pretentious easy listening. That was Copland.
>
>Correction: Schoenberg DID invent the 12-tone system.
>Pg 237, MUSIC: An Appreciation, by Roger Kamien
>composition, and during the early 1920s he developed the twelve-tone system
>to each of the tweleve chromatic tones, rather than singling out one pitch
>, as the tonal system does. For about twenty years, only Schoenberg and a
>few desciples used the twelve-tone system, but during the 1950s it came
>to be used by composers all over the world."
>
I think what needs to be clarified here is that Schoenberg used a *system*
of 12 tones. certainly 12 tone concepts existed before him.
From my textbook used when i studied music 12 (coincidence? :-) years ago...
(_The Enjoyment of Music_, Joseph Machlis)
"Expanded Tonality
In the major-minor system, seven tones where chosen out of the twelve
to form a key. This "seven out of twelve" way of hearing music was
expanded in the twentieth century to a "twelve out of twelve" -- that is,
the free use of twelve tones around a center. This approach, espoused by
composers like Hindemith and Bartok, retained the basic principle of
traditional tonality, loyal to the Tonic; but, by considering the five
chromatic tones to be as much a part of the key as the seven diatonic ones,
it immeasurably expanded the borders of tonality. In other words, the
chromatic scale of seven basic tones plus five visitors gave way to a
twelve-tone scale in which eleven tones gravitated to the Tonic."
then on Schoeberg,
"The Twelve-Tone *Method*
Each composition that uses Schoenberg's method is based on an arbitrary
arrangement of the twelve chromatic tones that is called a tone row -- or as
he terms it, a basic set. This row or set is the unifying idea that is
the basis of that particular compostion, and serves as the source of all the
musical events that take place in it...
...The twelve-tone row differs from a scale in one important respect. A
scale is a traditional pattern that serves as the basic series for hundreds
of composers and thousands of compositions. It soon becomes familiar to
the listener; any departure from the pattern is at once perceptible to the ear.
The tone row, on the other hand, is the basic series of particular composition,
constituting a unique configuration of the twelve tones not to be found in
any other piece. Since the twelve tones of the row are regarded as equally
important, no one of them is allowed to appear more than once in the series
lest it take on the prominence of a Tonic. (A tone may repeated immediately,
but this is regarded as an extension, not a new appearance.)"
>I admit the possibility that the author of this college textbook is wrong.
i dont think wrongness is so much the problem, its definition/perception
of what someone means when they talk about a '12 tone system' and prominence.
or in other words, the text you quoted didnt exactly spell out the
interpretation of "equal prominence" to the 12 tones. One may argue
that a person studied in music doesn't need to have it spelled out, however
this is soc.motss, not sci.composers
And back to Copland:
" 'During these years [30's] I began to fell an increasing dissatisfaction
with the relations of the music-loving public and the living composer.
It seemed to me that we composers were in danger of working in a vacum.'
He realized that a new public for contemporary music was being created by
radio, phonograph, and film scores. 'It made no sense to ignore them and
continue writing as if they did not exist. I felt that it was worth
the effort to see if I couldn't say what I had to say in the simplest
possible terms.'
In this fashion Copland was led to what became a most significant development
after the Thirties: the attempt to simplify the new music so that it
would communicate to a large public."
-ken
The trouble with music appreciation in general is
that people are taught to have too much respect
for music; they should be taught to love it instead.
-Stravinsky
The introduction of a new kind of music must
be shunned as imperiling the whole state, since
styles of music are never disturbed without
affecting the most important political institutions.
-Plato
There are only twelve tones. You must treat them carefully.
-Hindemith
Musical modes are nowhere altered without changes in the most
important laws of the state. -- Damon of Athens
Music is essentially useless, as life is. -- Santayana
--
- Ken Dykes, Software Development Group, UofWaterloo, Canada [43.47N 80.52W]
kgd...@watmath.waterloo.edu [129.97.128.1] watmath!kgdykes
postm...@watbun.waterloo.edu B8 P6/6 s+ f+ m t w e r p
r l reid
>
>Correction: Schoenberg DID invent the 12-tone system.
>
>Pg 237, MUSIC: An Appreciation, by Roger Kamien
So this Kamien dude had a PhD. It still doesn't prove much more than that
Arnie had a mind rigidly restricted to an aribitrary set of pitches
that was somewhat broader than the rigid set of the heritage he
came from (as opposed to the heritage he was headed for? Anyway...)
All education proves is you haven't had any time to do anything real.
>P.S. I never found dissonant music compatible with a romantic encounter with
>a MOTSS.
Your personal experience with this is far more valid to me than some
textbook. Is silence dissonant or consonant (or vowel?)?
John Merrill
(I gotta ask: does `DPW' *really* stand for "Department of Public
Works"?)
> Who can fuck to rock and roll? The backbeat won't leave you alone.
Yeah, Ro, but who can fuck to Lulu, either? Or [to] Wodjek?
--
John Merrill / mer...@bucasb.bu.edu / harvard!bu.edu!bucasb!merrill
pri=-19-Roger B.A. Klorese
>P.S. I never found dissonant music compatible with a romantic encounter with
>a MOTSS.
...Then you're not doing it right. ;-)
--
ROGER B.A. KLORESE MIPS Computer Systems, Inc.
MS 6-05 930 DeGuigne Dr. Sunnyvale, CA 94086 +1 408 524-7421
rog...@mips.COM {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!rogerk "I'm the NLA"
"The problem with the rat race is even if you win you're still a rat." - Tomlin
pri=-19-Roger B.A. Klorese
>Imagine trying to get a constant 'beat' going in
>the midst of some atonal, meterless piece resembling the audio track to
>"How to torture an Orchestra in one easy lesson."
Jeff? Any thoughts? Any problems with a "constant beat"? Yeesh.
r l reid
Inventor? Inventor? ARRGH!
Codifier, sure. But when I see the sun rise tommorrow morning, I will not
claim to have invented it.
Ro
r l reid
>Imagine trying to get a constant 'beat' going in
>the midst of some atonal, meterless piece resembling the audio track to
>"How to torture an Orchestra in one easy lesson."
Ignoring your obvious prejudice, what a composer leaves out is as important
as what a composer leaves in. If you are going to use music as
a componant of a broader work incorporating rhythm, such as dancing or
fucking, "some atonal, meterless piece" leaves room for the *active*
listener (this whole passive approach to music as somthing to sit and listen
to is a fairly new invention BTW) leaves room for the *active* listener
to add thier part.
Joseph Francis
original fairly pleonastic definition of 'Shoenburger' and
'Twelfth Night' tonal system, I must admit that I feel that I
should myself contribute to the discursion in a cogent manner
befitting the rather haughty and afterall hacktademic tone of
the original posting, but of course relating it to "Fresh Clean"
motss.homosexuality, that no-depth endless sissyphean barrage
of comments, antiments, and anagametogenic odettes on the word
'fuckle' (which, it should be known, was invented here, on this
board, by me, a word who (yes, who. I believe words have as
manyrights as people in this poly-franchised country) subtly though
taughtly combines the sensations of raw sex, nuzzling at the back
of the neck, freundshtick, and oral sex of an engorging, and throat-
expanding variety). The twelve-phone system was (though not invented)
fully elaborated and developed by AT&T, the discoverers of UNIX(tm),
and to whom we all owe a tremendous Negative Return. Just look
at your XXX-Bell public phone. There they are. The twelve buttons.
Only in this, a truly democratic society, can such haughty and
elevated concepts such as serial-lines and atonal whistling slide
effortlessly from the pencil tip of John Cage into the pubic domain
for all to see. Who does this relate to within the context of
motss.homosexuality you ask yourself, beetling brow and glazed
(didn't I tell you to get the anti-reflective coating on those glasses)
eyes behind spectaculars? I have found, through intrepid research,
that if one punches all homosexually-oriented 976 sex numbers (you
know the ones, boys and girls!) it outlines (in a classic (timeless)
canzicrans/fugettamata form (whooops) ')' the opening of Hoeneggers
8th Tymphani (Q106) *as though written by Shoenberg*. Yes.
Fad-Hags and Faddists alike can quote me.
Onward to Phillipa Glassey-eyed and busy signals!
"What is it about Jojo that is so fresh, so right?"
"Speaking volumes"
"Speaking out to the way YOU want to live today."
"I've learned to live with it, and make it work, work for me."
"The 90's. They're here to stay. Now. Think about it."
"Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner, and Smith? Yes."
"American. Fresh, Clean"
"What is it about Jojo?"
Amelia T. Smith
>
> Yeah, Ro, but who can fuck to Lulu, either? Or [to] Wodjek?
Fuck! Fuck! Fuck to Lu*LU*! Fuck, fuck fuck to Lu*LU*! Fuck, fuck,
fuck to Lu*LU*! Fuck to Lu-lu - fuck to Lu-lu mah dar-lin'!
[Sung to the tune of "Skip to my Lou", of course...]
----- Amelia T. Smith -----
Opinions: MINE! MINE! MINE! University of Pennsylvania
B0(h-?) f- t- w++ d- s+ r- p++ e++ Medical School Computer Facility
Internet: sm...@mscf.med.upenn.edu C511 Richards Bldg.
Voice: (215) 898-7158 (work) Philadelphia, PA 19104-6062 U.S.A.
Ron Rizzo
Am I the only one or do other people find the idea that music
is an accessory to sex very, well, amusing? Huxley and McLuhan
must be chuckling in their caskets.
sf, ah!
Ron
Asmodeus
*rr...@DPW.COM ( r l reid ) writes:
*> Who can fuck to rock and roll? The backbeat won't leave you alone.
Or dfs ... unless the washing machine turns you on ...
*Yeah, Ro, but who can fuck to Lulu, either? Or [to] Wodjek?
Personally, for plain old marathon vanilla fucking, I'm quite
fond of Die Frau ohne Schatten ... for SM, my first choice is
Syrian chant (love those vocal quarter-tone turns) and second
choice, plainsong or Gregorian chants. Nice free meter, and both
quite effectively aid in inducing that Magick space ...
--
"En Loki haftha tha ferth haft til Svathilfara at nokkuru sithar bar
hann fyl. That var gratt ok hafthi atta foetr, ok er sa hestr beztr
meth gothum ok monnum."
Robert Gill
(Arnold Zwicky) writes an article on sex and rock and roll, most
of which I've deleted. At the end he says:
>
>[kids: don't try this at home on your own, without special
>instruction! ...
I hereby volunteer to offer instructions to all those young males (of legal
age please) who wish such. I know, know, such a great sacrifice you say :-)
but it would be shame for a new generation to have to struggle to figure
you wish appendage goes in which depression. :-)
Females and straights looking for instruction need not apply. Sorry someone
else will have to make that sacrifice.
Yours in frivoulity,
Bob
****************************************************************************
Robert W. Gill (gi...@odin.m2c.org) -- Massachusetts Microelectronics Center
"A taboo is when someone else tells Disclaimer: It's not my fault,
you what you can or can't do with I wasn't there and
your body." -- Solomon Short the checks in the mail...
Arnold Zwicky
fuck to rock and roll?' but perhaps not; one is constantly exposed
to astonishing facets of the human experience that one had not
hitherto been cognizant of - in this case, the inability, intimated
to be widespread, to fuck to rock and roll. (surely the inept could
*practice*, no?)
i think it could fairly be said that for a decade or two, at least,
a lot of people in my generation, of both sexes and all manner of
orientations, rarely ever fucked *not* to rock and roll. (you
incorporate the back beat into the experience, or possibly the
experience into the beat; it's always hard to tell whether the
music is in you or you're in the music.) maybe it started when
we were teenagers and elvis or little richard or chuck berry or
whoever could drown out the possibly public noises of love-making,
while at the same time supplying a lubricious descant to the act.
whatever got it going, it certainly went.
one of the all-time great fucks of my life accompanied the playing
of _the concert for bangla desh_; the all-out shout-and-shake
climaxes came during mick jagger's performance of `jumpin' jack
flash', a song i cannot even think about now without having my
skin flush all over in recollection of those extraordinarily
pleasurable moments. omigod, we were even on a *waterbed*.
(even more remarkably, later on this very day i got the magic
letter from the guggenheim foundation saying i'd gotten a
fellowship. certainly a day to remember and cherish.)
[kids: don't try this at home on your own, without special
instruction! well, feel free to apply for guggenheim fellowships.]
arnold
Jess Anderson
[music to do it by]
> The sound of rain falling on the tent.
Ohmygod! Can we meet for coffee and talk? :-)
My favorite kind of togetherness: camping (the
outdoors kind).
Dan Madison Byrd
to have sex to, look at the turn of the century French impressionists/
post impressionists.
Take, for example, Paul Dukas' symphony in C and his ballet La Peri.
The subtle but persistent rhythms, and the swooping chromatics both
give me quivers even when there isn't anyone else around.
And try any of Eric Satie's piano pieces. Rhythmically persistent,
usually building to some sort of definite climax. Oooh, I'm getting
goose bumps again...
dmb...@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (but not for long)
Dan Byrd (maybe not for long, either)
--
"show me how you do that trick" | show me how you do it
"the one that makes me scream" i said | and i promise you i promise
"the one that makes me laugh" i said | i'll run away with you
and threw my arms around his neck | i'll run away with you
Joseph Francis
Ah, but Ron! Sex and Music have such a classical history. Sex and
Music are both one of the 8 muses (errata and calligraphy), and
Pseudo-Egabalus extolled the virtues of music and sex linked
Therefore a body [male] finds a perfusive rhythm linked
inexorably [gr: kata-kana] with the temple drum and
the chorine's wail during intromission [gr: felch]. That
link extends beyond the two to the three, to the many.
One has intromission [gr:philaphilia] with humanity, in
a crystalline nexus of growth. One is all [fr: tout].
A case could be made (dative) for the idea of consumption and exhaustion
(heard one Phil Glass minor 7th, you've heard them all?) and the
unreality of transmogrification, but there you go. Ennui and
not amusification. Huxley is probably not chuckling, though. The
last LSD probably hasn't "worn off".
Love, Joe.
Ken Dykes
>In article <24...@unsvax.NEVADA.EDU> bali...@uns-helios.nevada.edu (SHAWN HICKS) writes:
>Who can fuck to rock and roll? The backbeat won't leave you alone.
Yes, that's why i use speed-metal and thrash.
-ken
News Administrator
>>Imagine trying to get a constant 'beat' going in
>>the midst of some atonal, meterless piece resembling the audio track to
>>"How to torture an Orchestra in one easy lesson."
>Ignoring your obvious prejudice, what a composer leaves out is as important
Sigh.... My fault for not puting in those little smiley faces. Actually I
Like all that stuff. In fact I was the only one in my class to like
Charles Ives' Putnam Camp,Redding,Conn.
From: bali...@uns-helios.nevada.edu (SHAWN HICKS)
Path: uns-helios!balistik
>as what a composer leaves in. If you are going to use music as
>a componant of a broader work incorporating rhythm, such as dancing or
>fucking, "some atonal, meterless piece" leaves room for the *active*
>listener (this whole passive approach to music as somthing to sit and listen
>to is a fairly new invention BTW) leaves room for the *active* listener
>to add thier part.
>
Passive listening is good sometimes. However, there are those times when it
is a royal bore. (had I said Boar would you have imagined a pig in crown
sipping tea and eating crumpets? :> ) Fusion can really challenge you as
long as it isn't the elevator type. (or the nuclear type. :> ) Boinking
to a backbeat can drive you batty. ( If you drive a 'fruit' batty... does
that make him a Fruitbat? <<ducking>> )
SHAWN HICKS
Ahem... << assume serious face >>
:-|
'sex' -meaning the actual act of intercourse- is boring. Or at least it
could be a lot more fun. There are quite a few things that can improve
or add spice to just plain sex. A good looking man or someone with whom
you have great respect or fondness is always a good start on my list. Then
sex has another dimension which takes it past the point of procreation.
<something which I find myself unsuited...I've tried. :) > Then there are
those things that can add the spice... such as music. For example, should
I find myself way-lucky <I consider myself lucky if I have a date. Luckier
still if we date a few times...and then way-lucky> I might light a fire
in the fire place and put on some quiet inspiring music. Or, if it's one
of those 'in lust' things, I might put some good pop on the stereo and
get brutal. ;> Besides, many a composer was attempting to woo the flower
of his eye... Translation: some people wrote music to get the thing they
were in lust with in bed for some sex.... with or without accessories.
Other good additions include a warm night under a full moon in the desert
after a rowdy drive in a 4x4. or... perching atop a hill outside Vegas
at night with a SO.
Ahem... << assume flustered face >>
.....bye...
Jack Hamilton
I saw Doretta's wonderful reply before I saw this posting, so I had
something completely different in mind. For Clay's Lulu, it would probably
work quite well if you had a box. Does everyone know what we're talking
about here?
>Personally, for plain old marathon vanilla fucking, I'm quite
>fond of Die Frau ohne Schatten ...
I once read an very good porn story whose literary turning point was "Madame
Butterfly". I can't envision it myself, "Turandot", maybe. I'd like to
try it to "The Abduction from the Seraglio", currently my favorite.
--
Jack Hamilton Personal mail: j...@netcom.uucp
US Mail: Box 281107, SFIA, CA 94128
George Neville-Neil
> one suspects ro of being merely provocative when he asks, `who can
> fuck to rock and roll?' but perhaps not; one is constantly exposed
> to astonishing facets of the human experience that one had not
> hitherto been cognizant of - in this case, the inability, intimated
> to be widespread, to fuck to rock and roll. (surely the inept could
> *practice*, no?)
Umm excuse me but I missed the initial post on this one. Personally I
can fuck to just about any kind of music. Rock works as well as
classical or Indian sitar music or whatever. Although I did have a
boyfriend once look at me funny for suggesting some light Mozart. He
was VERY into classical music and just didn't think appropriate. I
think I changed his mind :-)
Actually I wonder what everyone's favourite music to fuck to is ???
[Picture me ducking as the net is swamped by follow ups :-) ]
Of course there are several genre's of music that I haven't tried yet
but I'll get to them in time.
>
>
> arnold
--
George Neville-Neil Earth: A planet in search of intelligent life.
g...@elan.com
Bear Code : B0 f+ t w+ d- k+ h- r+
Kevin Walsh
...
>
>Actually I wonder what everyone's favourite music to fuck to is ???
>
The sound of rain falling on the tent.
Cigno Fluganta
Jess Anderson
>In article <53...@spdcc.SPDCC.COM> ci...@ursa-major.spdcc.com (Kevin Walsh) writes:
>> a Wisconsin winter.
>Kevin, in the winter, Jess does all his camping indoors... :-)
Not only, but *I* have camping gear suitable for a Wisconsin
winter! :-)
Kevin Walsh
>In article <53...@spdcc.SPDCC.COM> ci...@ursa-major.spdcc.com (Kevin Walsh) writes:
>
>[music to do it by]
>
>> The sound of rain falling on the tent.
>
>Ohmygod! Can we meet for coffee and talk? :-)
I will be driving across the country soon (early Jan.) to
visit some friends and maybe do a little contracting work.
However, I am afraid I do not have camping gear suitable for
a Wisconsin winter.
Cigno Fluganta
Ron Rizzo
Being the abject of a minisploof by Jojo is not unlike what George
Bush said about Doonesbury:
It's terrible if you appear in it, but unthinkable if you
don't.
Salvete et valete!
Light in the Loafers
aka Ron
(who is so busy with with homework nowadays that he has
no time to be a homosexual)
Steve Dyer
> However, I am afraid I do not have camping gear suitable for
> a Wisconsin winter.
Kevin, in the winter, Jess does all his camping indoors... :-)
--
Steve Dyer
dy...@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
dy...@arktouros.mit.edu, dy...@hstbme.mit.edu
Steve Dyer
>>> However, I am afraid I do not have camping gear suitable for
>>> a Wisconsin winter.
>>Kevin, in the winter, Jess does all his camping indoors... :-)
>Not only, but *I* have camping gear suitable for a Wisconsin winter! :-)
And anyone who's met Jess knows that he carries it with him wherever
he goes... :-)
Ron Rizzo
>could be a lot more fun. There are quite a few things that can improve
>or add spice to just plain sex.
Good point!
I'm tempted to run through all the lively arts looking for enhancers
for the liveliest art:
- movies on video: besides the obvious choice of porn, how
about movies:
classics (The Wizard of Oz)
film noir
horror & grade b thrillers (Attack of the Bee
Boys)
Hollywood musicals (Busby Berkeley, Esther
Williams)
- opera: hear AND see
- drama: hire a small troupe to perform (ahem!) one-acts
in your bedroom
- candlepin bowling (how did this get included?)
- assorted performance: recital by the diva upstairs,
your friend in Actors Equity doing Hal Holbrook as
Queen Victoria, a strungout peroformance artiste from
Duesseldorf doing something totally impenetrable
I leave implementation as an exercise for readers.
Regards,
the LITL one
Jay Tyson
> >dying to see Wozzeck while fucking on a park bench ...
>
Wozzeck... While fucking? How are you going to get any
rhythm going? Don't get me wrong. I really enjoyed myself
at S.F. Opera this year when I saw Wozzeck.
Then again - sometimes you don't need rhythem!!
--
John "Jay" Tyson \ Drummer Bear Systems
1259 El Camino Real, #214 \ ja...@drbear.COM
Menlo Park, CA 9402 /\ ...!{decwrl|saxony}!drbear!jayt
voice: +1 (415) 326-7926 / \
data: +1 (415) 326-8014 / \
Jay Tyson
> In article <24...@unsvax.NEVADA.EDU> bali...@uns-helios.nevada.edu (SHAWN HIC
>
> >"...Schoenberg felt the need for a more systematic approach to atonal
> >composition, and during the early 1920s he developed the twelve-tone system
> >, a new technique of pitch organisation
>
> Oh, new for Western music perhaps. That's not inventing it.
> Pretty ethnocentric little textbook you've got there.
I have the same text book and think that it's right on the money.
To date I haven't found any other errors in it's pages
>
> >to challenge me... sometimes I want to relax and enjoy.
>
> If I want to hear "Swing Low Sweet Chariot," I will listen to it.
> There's nothing enjoyable about listening to something taken out
> of its musical context and shoved into another -- certainly no
> different from Brahms done a l'elevator.
>
> >P.S. I never found dissonant music compatible with a romantic encounter with
> >a MOTSS.
>
> So?
>
> --
So... What the HELL do you like?
Jay Tyson
> Butterfly". I can't envision it myself, "Turandot", maybe. I'd like to
> try it to "The Abduction from the Seraglio", currently my favorite.
> --
> Jack Hamilton Personal mail: j...@netcom.uucp
> US Mail: Box 281107, SFIA, CA 94128
If we get our timing down right mid 19th century Italian opera
could be very enjoyable (more specificaly Verdi) Traviata is
too easy. Lets say Nabucco, Ballo, or Rigoletto. There are even
some places in Tosca that could be quite fun.
Butterfly and Turandot (and possibly Tosca) would be good for
some good bondage and whipping. All that violence you know.
Jess Anderson
>>>> However, I am afraid I do not have camping gear suitable for
>>>> a Wisconsin winter.
>>>Kevin, in the winter, Jess does all his camping indoors... :-)
>>Not only, but *I* have camping gear suitable for a Wisconsin winter! :-)
>
>And anyone who's met Jess knows that he carries it with him wherever
>he goes... :-)
Ho ho, you bag!
Always ready to enjoy, spread wide, er, to provide
widespread, to enjoy wide spreads, to spread enjoyment
far and wide, uh ... well, I've been known to fling up
a tent at the drop of a hat, er, his shorts, er ... well.
Rod Williams
>Light in the Loafers
>aka Ron
>
>(who is so busy with with homework nowadays that he has
>no time to be a homosexual)
does this mean he's a queer in arrears...?
--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Now art should never try to be popular. *
* Rod Williams * The public should try to make itself *
* Pacific Bell - San Ramon CA * artistic. - Oscar Wilde *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Asmodeus
>I have the same text book and think that it's right on the money.
>To date I haven't found any other errors in it's pages
What does it have to say about Mesoamerican music, pray tell? Or
perhaps North American Indian music? How about Levantine music?
Turkish music? Can you use this book, say, to get just basic
information about how music varies from Iran to Qatar? The error
is one of rather blatant ethnocentrism, something musicology is
well known to be rampantly infected with.
>So... What the HELL do you like?
So broad a spectrum that it would be much more economical to list
what I do not like. Above everything else, I dislike pretention,
in music or anything else. Copland and Humperdinck are both good
examples of pretentious music.
Really, now, if you want to talk music, I propose we move it to
email, before we get toasted for discussing genres other than pap.
It's happened before.
Asmodeus
>I once read an very good porn story whose literary turning point was "Madame
>Butterfly". I can't envision it myself, "Turandot", maybe. I'd like to
>try it to "The Abduction from the Seraglio", currently my favorite.
Did anyone else see the Peter Sellars production of Figaro last
night? Mozart in the Trump Tower ...
Frank Maloney
!
!the fact that the shade of karen carpenter has been invoked is
!ominous. k.c. cults, involving barbecued ribs, calvin trillin but not
!klein, enthusiastic catholics [note motss-relevance!], some of them at
!the bat, donovan in porn flicks, and worse, are the bane of modern
!urban life. they have made us prisoners of pachelbel, forever
!canonized, prisoners of second avenue neil simon and garfunkel farkle
!sparkle plenty more where that came from russia with love child
!harold prince of darkness at noon -e knows the trouble i've seen
!them come and i've seen them go man go papaya breadfruit fairy
!ring around the rosy dawn pawn fawn hall your ass man...
Thanks, Arnold, I needed that.
--
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
"The dim boy claps because the others clap."
Richard Hugo, "The Freaks at Spurgin Road Field"
Stan Brown
ahem!, the Act. We burst out laughing at the timing. Listen to the
last five minutes and you'll know why. (Then listen to the whole
symphony. I like it a lot.)
Please do not attribute these remarks to any other person or company.
email: bro...@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cleveland, Ohio, USA +1 216 371 0043
Robert Coren
In article <54...@spdcc.SPDCC.COM>, bo...@spdcc.COM (Asmodeus) writes:
|> Did anyone else see the Peter Sellars production of Figaro last
|> night? Mozart in the Trump Tower ...
I saw it. I thought it was excellent musically, but I didn't like the
"conception". This is probably not the appropriate forum for detailed
criticism -- I expect it will come up in rec.music.classical. Or send
me mail in the unlikely event that you're interested in my views...
Robert
b
>
>Actually I wonder what everyone's favourite music to fuck to is ???
The soundtrack of the Cook, the Thief, his Wife, and her Lover.
Zoolook used to be a favorite.
--
This is your life and you do what you want to do.
Just don't hurt nobody, 'less of course they ask you,
In the garden of earthly delights. - XTC
Carol Broderick uunet!attcan!bdofed!broderic
Jay Tyson
>
> Did anyone else see the Peter Sellars production of Figaro last
> night? Mozart in the Trump Tower ...
>
NO! I missed it because I was at a rehearsal for Berkeley Opera.
If anyone out there is willing to copy it for me I will gladly
pay the expenses. I am realy want to see this production. Opera
Quarterly ran an extensive article on Peter Sellars and the three
Mozart operas that he has done. The others being Don and Cosi.
Thanks.
the Crisco Kid
>
>Am I the only one or do other people find the idea that music
>is an accessory to sex very, well, amusing? Huxley and McLuhan
>must be chuckling in their caskets.
Naaaaah. Sex is an accessory to music...
Kay
--
There's a hole in my heart where the rain blows through...
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry Poly, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home)
Paddington Bear
Oh gee -- a bunch of us were just discussing this a couple of nights
ago. Here's a list from various sources....
Various Laurie Anderson cuts.
The River by Virgil Thompson
Cocteau Twins
Escalator Up the Hill by Carla Bley
Field of Dreams soundtrack
Let It Ride (can't remember the artist -- favorite line is
"Get it up, get it up, get it up, Little Boy and ride.")
On the Threshold of Liberty by Mark Isham
others too sick to mention.
--
Steve Arrants (And here it is, the enormous night.)
Best path: ...uunet!microsoft!stephena
Blame me, not Microsoft. I work for them, they let me post.
Follow your BLISS and doors open where there were no doors before.
Paul Asente
>In article <54...@spdcc.SPDCC.COM>, bo...@spdcc.COM (Asmodeus) writes:
>|> Did anyone else see the Peter Sellars production of Figaro last
>|> night? Mozart in the Trump Tower ...
>
>I saw it. I thought it was excellent musically, but I didn't like the
>"conception". This is probably not the appropriate forum for detailed
We finally got to see this here in SF last Friday. My comment is definitely
appropriate for this forum.
I've seen a lot of opera in my time, with some fairly steamy love scenes
between women playing women and women playing men. I've never seen any
as homoerotic (is that the appropriate word here? same-sex erotic, anyway)
as the scenes between Cherubino and the Countess in this production.
Do you think we were supposed to think, "lesbian," every time Cherubino
showed up? I sure did, and I'm pretty sure Sellars had this in mind;
he's too careful to have let this just slip in.
-paul asente
ase...@adobe.com ...decwrl!adobe!asente
Lady Celia led Alice to her boudoir, where she requested the girl to
perform a rather surprising service.
Keith Niall
Oh, I don't know, I used to like having
KLAUS NOMI'S version of
DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD
to make out to.
Try it sometime.
--
*** Keith Niall ****** k...@dretor.dciem.dnd.ca *****************************
* The legitimacy of homosexuality lies not in its loyalty *
* to orthodox masculinity, but in its violation. Brian Pronger *
*****************************************************************************
Greg Parkinson
In article <38...@dciem.dciem.dnd.ca>, k...@dciem.dciem.dnd.ca (Keith Niall) writes:
>
> Oh, I don't know, I used to like having
> KLAUS NOMI'S version of
> DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD
> to make out to.
>
> Try it sometime.
>
You've got to be kidding. I don't think I would be able to stop
giggling.
A personal favorite is _Throbbing Gristle_ doing "Hamburger Lady".
Pain becomes pleasure, and all that.
A newly discovered favorite - the sound of rain dripping off leaves,
thunder in the distance, in the Costa Rican coastal jungle, with Spanish
being murmured in my ear.
--
Greg Parkinson (GregBear) Phone: 212-657-7814
Citibank Fax: 212-657-0068
111 Wall Street E-Mail: uunet!ibism!glp
New York, NY 10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
"Ese Huevo Quiere Sal!" - JackieO, El Torre/Tonight, San Jose, Costa Rica
Asmodeus
>Do you think we were supposed to think, "lesbian," every time Cherubino
>showed up? I sure did, and I'm pretty sure Sellars had this in mind;
>he's too careful to have let this just slip in.
I went back and watched it, and to be quite frank about it,
I got no more "lesbian" out of it than, say, had I been watching
Octavian and the Marschallin.
Maybe I just can't get past the pants ...
--
"It's extremely difficult to get someone to look at the ladder when they
are bowing down to the flower on the hill."
-- Mike Morgan
Steve Dyer
>>Do you think we were supposed to think, "lesbian," every time Cherubino
>>showed up? I sure did, and I'm pretty sure Sellars had this in mind;
>>he's too careful to have let this just slip in.
>I went back and watched it, and to be quite frank about it, I got no more
>"lesbian" out of it than, say, had I been watching Octavian and the
>Marschallin. Maybe I just can't get past the pants ...
I was just watching it for the first time tonight, and I see what
Paul means. Perhaps the fact that the singer playing Cherubino
looked a great deal like a chunky k.d. lang helped. On the other
hand, I'm not sure at all that you need to think this. The character
plays equally well as a "boy" or a "tomboy", at least in Sellars'
production.
the Crisco Kid
>In article <8...@elan.Elan.COM> g...@elan.Elan.COM (George Neville-Neil) writes:
>>Actually I wonder what everyone's favourite music to fuck to is ???
>The soundtrack of the Cook, the Thief, his Wife, and her Lover.
Oh *YES*! All of it, or just a particular track?
>Zoolook used to be a favorite.
Mmmm... I'm no JMJ fan, but it's not bad.
Try "trained to kill" by Vagina Dentata Organ, or "How to destroy
Angels" by Coil, or, best of all, anything by Dead Can Dance (apart
from the first (eponymous) album, which is a mite Cocteau-Twinsy).
I'd like to meet someone who'd want to fuck to some Steve Reich
(Different Trains comes to mind) or The Protecting Veil by John
Tavener (no, not the madrigally Tave*r*ner of a few centuries
ago, but this absolutely zarjy modern British composer) but they
seem hard to come across. Or Philip Glass. Or anybody, actually
<blush>...
Jonathan Shapcott
>In article <3...@bdofed.UUCP> brod...@bdofed.UUCP (The Doubtful Guest) writes:
>>In article <8...@elan.Elan.COM> g...@elan.Elan.COM (George Neville-Neil) writes:
>>>Actually I wonder what everyone's favourite music to fuck to is ???
[stuff]
>Try "trained to kill" by Vagina Dentata Organ
Eek! If you're into that sort of thing, I had better start coding
topy-like.....
what about sex-stars 1 and 2 by thee same vagina dentata organ,
picture disc coumplete with photographs of marilyn monroe on a mortuary
slab and elvis presley in a coffin. lovely.....
or even side two ov motorslug (by a band whose name escapes me).....
on an almost similar track, how many soc.motssers have heard ov/are
involved with thee topy ?
jonathan
|
---|--- ai...@uk.ac.ed.castle
--|-- Changed priorities ahead NOW!
---|--- Nothing iz true, everything iz permissable - Hassan I Sabbah
|
Jeff Dauber
>In article <3...@bdofed.UUCP> brod...@bdofed.UUCP (The Doubtful Guest) writes:
>>In article <8...@elan.Elan.COM> g...@elan.Elan.COM (George Neville-Neil) writes:
>>>Actually I wonder what everyone's favourite music to fuck to is ???
>>The soundtrack of the Cook, the Thief, his Wife, and her Lover.
>
>Angels" by Coil, or, best of all, anything by Dead Can Dance (apart
>from the first (eponymous) album, which is a mite Cocteau-Twinsy).
Wow!!!!! Someone who has the same taste in "fuck music" as I do.
Other recommendations "Entombment of Christ" by Kristof Penderecki,
"Nova Akropola" by Laibach, "Blood and Flame" by NON, "Stoneface" by
Nocturnal Emissions, or almost anything by Throbbing Gristle....
Oh, the Penderecki is the greatest S&M music there is. Try it on for
size....
Jeff
-FWA