CON: David Goldfarb's Con Report -- part 2
David Goldfarb
Well, Friday took rather longer than I thought. (What are you
talking about, Goldfarb? It took 24 hours.) Anyway, here it is.
Saturday and Sunday should be coming soon.
Friday:
Katie and I got up earlier in order to make the Kurt Busiek discussion
group. (Here again the program guide fell down: the group was not listed
in the regular listings. It did make the grid in the back.) Kurt is smart
and interesting, and the group was easily the best panel I attended all con.
Lots of stuff was discussed there; I'll try to recall the highlights.
Someone asked where Astro City was located. Kurt refused to answer
directly, but said that there were clues, especially Samaritan's travel times
in issue #1. (This is old news to people on racm, of course.) Are there
other heroes in the world of _Astro City_, besides the ones we've seen in
Astro City proper? Yes -- in fact, MPH of the Honor Guard is based in Detroit.
Someone brought up the issue of other countries' heroes in general and Asian
heroes in particular. Kurt said that they do exist but he wasn't going to
go out of his way to show them; they'd show up if it added to a story. The
book is _Astro City_, and he's going to put the most interesting characters
and stories in that location.
_Untold Tales of Spider-Man_ is going to get a new logo. Or rather,
an old one -- when the Marvel PTB decided to allow diverse logos on the
Spider-Books again, _Untold_ managed to get dibs on the original _Amazing
Spider-Man_ logo. So the spiky cartoon one will be disappearing soon.
Kurt's original name for the book was _Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man_
but that got overruled. He doesn't like the name _Untold Tales_, because
it gives him the impression of leftovers. "Once you've used up all those
other Spider-Man tales, if you're still interested in more, get these *untold*
tales!" He's considering trying to get the name changed. Pros: he'd like
the name better, and if it were renumbered as well there might be a sales
boost from the new #1. Cons: fans might have trouble finding the series,
since Marvel is afraid to put creator names on their covers. People might
mistake it for just another one of those limited series that Marvel keeps
doing. Also, while a new #1 might get a boost, the post-#1 order drop might
reduce sales below what they are now. A quick show of hands showed people
split about 50-50 on renaming, and almost all opposed to renumbering.
Somewhere around here Kurt described the upcoming UToS annual. It
will feature art by Mike Allred. It guest stars the Fantastic Four and
the Sub-Mariner. (Kurt summarized the story, at least the premise, but
it occurs to me that some might not want spoilers. Interested parties
can email me.) Apparently Allred doesn't want to work much for Marvel,
but still has some fondness for some of the characters and a desire to draw
them. He's pleased because this annual has almost all the characters he
feels that way about; he can do this, get it out of his system, and then
never work for Marvel again. :-) Kurt wants to return to the concept of
an Annual as something big and special, with extra features to give the
reader value for money.
This prompted some discussion of themed Annuals. The consensus was
that they didn't work too well. Kurt said that it could work if you had, say,
six books in your line; you could do that many variations on a theme without
boring people unduly. But DC and Marvel's 3 dozen or so just drove things
into the ground. He'd come up with a couple of concepts he thought could
work: "Good Stories by the Regular Creative Team!"; and, more seriously,
"Big Finishes" -- doing a story arc in the main book and doing a large-scale
wrapup in the annual, as Marv Wolfman did a couple of times in _New Teen
Titans_. The problem with that, though, is the Superman books; with four
of them doing an intertwined story, how do you do four big finishes? So
that might not work.
Someone asked why _Untold Tales of Spider-Man_ was packaged as a flip
book on newsstands. The reason is that newsstands won't take a 99-cent
package; it doesn't make them enough profit to be worth the bother of stocking
it. So Marvel put two 99-cent books together for $1.99. This led Kurt into
an explication of "How the comic industry has driven itself into the ground".
To summarize quickly: as costs rose, where adult magazines raised their cover
prices, comics chose to keep their cover prices as low as possible to stay
affordable to kids, instead cutting page counts. Unfortunately, that meant
making themselves relatively less profitable to newsstand retailers, to the
point where by the mid-'70s newsstands and convenience stores pretty much
didn't stock comics at all. The direct market kept things afloat for a while,
but doesn't attract new readers. And now it's a generation later, and there
are no readers. The solution is to come up with some kind of new package
with a high price but that offers better value for the money than what we
have now. (This also shows up in Busiek's interview in the latest _Comics
Journal_, so if you want more details you can find that.)
And at some point, Kurt told the story of how Mark Waid once called
him a Nazi.
It happened when he was an assistant editor at _Marvel Age_. He did
an interview with Stan Lee -- not the Q&A type, but an article. He wrote
something like, "The main co-architect of the Marvel Universe was Jack Kirby.
Other artists involved were Steve Ditko, Gene Colan, Don Heck...[etc.])"
Now, Mark Waid, who was writing reviews for _Amazing Heroes_ at the time,
somehow managed to miss Kirby's name in there. He wrote a scathing article
along the lines of, "Marvel's official policy is to deny Kirby's existence,
and Jim Salicrup and Kurt Busiek are going along with it like good little
Nazis."
Kurt telephoned the AH offices and pointed out that he was a German,
"Nazi" was not just some generic insult but an actual political party, and
that he felt this was getting into territory that was legally actionable.
They connected him with Waid, who had realized his mistake, and who apologized
profusely. Ultimately AH ran a retraction, albeit a really weasel-worded
one -- "Jim Salicrup and Kurt Busiek are not actually members of the Nazi
Party, but...."
Anyway, a while later Kurt was in New York and planning to have dinner
with Gerard Jones to discuss a project. It turned out that some DC staff
wanted to discuss stuff with Jones on the same day, so Kurt wound up going
along to that dinner. He arrived outside of DC's offices, and Jones introduced
him. One of the people there was a heavyset, round-faced, strawberry blond
man; he shook hands with Kurt, and said, "Hi. I'm Mark Waid. You don't
like me very much." "Well, sieg heil, Mark," said Kurt. And there, in the
middle of the sidewalk, in rush hour traffic, Waid sank to his knees and
began apologizing until Kurt finally forgave him.
(I must admit to a mild curiosity about how Waid recalls all this.)
Also at some point in there we plugged the trivia challenge, which had
not made it into any of the official listings previously, and was finally
given a published time and room in that morning's newszine.
Whew. Anyway, right after that discussion group was the DC Universe
panel (number 1 of 2), of which I don't recall much except that Mark Waid
promised not to kill off any more characters for a while.
After that there wasn't much in the way of panels; I'd've gone to the
spotlight on Alex Ross, only it was cancelled. I wandered the dealer's room
for a while (something which could take up a weekend in itself) and picked
up more Legion issues at prices ranging from 25 cents to $1. You could really
tell that the speculator craze was over; booths with Golden Age and Silver
Age comics far outnumbered any with recent Image-type stuff. The downside of
this was that I was completely unable to find any issues of _Nexus_ that
I was looking for.
Round about 4:00 I met up with Katie again. (She'd had other things
she wanted to see, so we'd split up before the Busiek group.) We did the
dealer's room some more before going to get dinner in time to make the GEnie
meeting. Neither of us is on GEnie, but last year that meeting featured
J. Michael Straczynski, and we were hoping that he'd be there again this
year, allowing us to see him in a more intimate setting than the big Saturday
_Babylon 5_ presentation. We ate at The Old Spaghetti Factory, which was
higher-priced than the Horton Plaza restaurants but gave a *lot* more food
for the money.
We had to rush to make the GEnie meeting, but it turned out that JMS
wasn't there after all. We did meet Tim Lynch and his wife whose name is
escaping me. So after a couple of minutes we made a quiet exit.
Walking through the dealer's room, we saw Scott McCloud and his family
near the DC display. I stopped to ask Ivy if she'd met up with Kathy Li.
(It's a tradition for the two of them that their San Diego really starts
when they meet and say hello.) She assured me that they had; in fact, they'd
had dinner together on Thursday night. With that to break the ice, I was
able to ask McCloud something that I'd been wondering for years: Zot's
middle name. He said that he couldn't recall for certain -- his first impulse
was "Thaddeus", but he felt that "Zachary Thaddeus Paleozogt" didn't scan
quite right. We noticed that Winter kept chewing on her arm; McCloud told
us that pediatricians had certified that as normal, and just a phase. Katie
commented on how much hair Winter had at the tender age of 11 months.
Tom had told us at the GEnie meeting that Peter David and Kathy Li
were going to be meeting at the Claypool booth for dinner at the Galaxy Grill
(aka "The Nine Planets Ice Cream Parlor") in Horton Plaza. We'd already eaten,
but had some time to kill before the trivia contest, so decided to see if we
could meet them. We got there just in time to see Kathy depart. Meanwhile,
Peter was getting Rich Johnston to say, "Sorry, Brain", which was really quite
eerie. Shortly afterwards, Tom showed up, the GEnie meeting evidently having
broken up after only a short time. So did a few other people whom I don't
know -- what was going to be a small dinner was mushrooming into a party.
There wasn't car space for everybody, so Katie and I simply walked to the
Plaza. As luck would have it, a shuttle bus arrived just as we were passing,
so we ended up getting there first. Along the way we ran into Michael Grabois,
whom I have slighted in previous parts of this con report -- sorry, Mike. (He
was going to Horton Plaza, too. I think it was a Compuserve dinner.)
By the time everyone got to the Galaxy Grill, we'd somehow managed to
lose Rich Johnston and his friend, but we'd picked up another four DC staffers.
The final total was 14 people. Peter announced that he'd been planning to
pick up the tab when it was just going to be 3-5 people, but since he wasn't
on an expense account, he wasn't about to pay for fourteen. Katie and I had
already eaten, of course, so we just had ice cream. Peter was nice enough
to pay for that (although it was partly also just the luck of the draw on
the seating arrangement). I told Kurt Busiek's Mark Waid Nazi story; Peter
told the story of Peter Jurasik at the German B5 convention. (Too long to
go into here -- it was in a recent "But I Digress".) Tom let Peter know about
the time and place of the trivia competition.
On the way out we noticed the giant concrete teddy bear holding the
FAO Schwarz sign. Tom speculated on the possibility of transporting it to
the next day's B5 panel for JMS's benefit.
After that we returned to the Clarion to drop off the day's loot. We
walked, Tom rode in Peter's rented convertible. Tom later considered this
a mistake.
Next on the agenda was the long-awaited trivia match between Len Wein's
"Purple Pros" team and our "Black Ink Irregulars". It's been detailed
elsewhere, and I'm running really long here already, so I'll just record
the final result: Pros 190, Tom Galloway 170. (Tom answered every question
for our side. We had three people rotating: Elmo, Jim Murdoch, and
Stephen Brumbaugh. Towards the end, I tried to simply rotate *all* of us
offstage, including myself, since we'd be just as effective off as on. :-)
After that was over we all trooped over to the Hyatt to try to find
a place to sit. Mark Waid went along with us; just before we entered the
lobby, he loudly announced that he was about to "turn into a normal person
who doesn't know any of you." And sure enough, he immediately cut out on
us. I thought it was pretty rude of him.
The post-Eisners dance party was going on. I was a bit disappointed
to miss it, even if they did have the same lousy DJ as last year, but
everyone else seemed to want to go to the bar on the top floor. We got
a table, and sat and talked and watched the fog roll in from the ocean.
Johanna had a book on the sociology of SF fandom, and we all looked at
the chapter on K/S fiction. Eventually Elayne got tired, and she didn't
want to try to get back to the hotel alone, so the three of us caught a cab.
David Goldfarb <*>|"The Carson/Johnson Law of Human Behavior:
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | 80% of all questions that begin with the word
aste...@slip.net | 'why' can be answered with the phrase
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | 'People are stupid.'" -- Ted Faber
Kurt Busiek
Michael Chary wrote:
>
> I want a hoops game next year. Me, Todd, Mike Kelly, Deitrich Kappe and
> Mark Nevins against the pros. Full court. Game to fifty.
Okay, but the pros will be fielding Mike Richardson, Randy Stradley,
Ron Frenz, Marc Silvestri and Heidi MacDonald...
kurt
Kurt Busiek
David Goldfarb wrote:
>
> Apparently Allred doesn't want to work much for Marvel, but still has
> some fondness for some of the characters and a desire to draw them.
I don't think it's so much a desire not to work for Marvel -- Mike drew
some sticker art for them recently, and it's really cool -- but a desire
to do his own stuff and avoid work-for-hire except in small doses. The
UNTOLD Annual offers him a lot of bang for his buck, so to speak; in
just 25 pages of artwork he gets to draw most of the Marvel characters
he likes the most. Plus, he gets inked by Joe Sinnott.
> And at some point, Kurt told the story of how Mark Waid once called
> him a Nazi.
Well, you forgot to mention that Mark and I are pals, and the story
was told with warmth and affection. Besides, I like to see Mark turn
bright red.
> He did an interview with Stan Lee -- not the Q&A type, but an
> article. He wrote something like, "The main co-architect of the
> Marvel Universe was Jack Kirby. Other artists involved were Steve
> Ditko, Gene Colan, Don Heck...[etc.])"
To be fair, the two sentences were in different paragraphs, not bunked
together like you have them here. It was a paragraph on Kirby and the
creation of the M.U., and then another paragraph listing the other
luminaries. Mark missed the first paragraph.
> Kurt telephoned the AH offices and pointed out that he was a German --
Of German descent. Ah'm an Ammurican.
> One of the people there was a heavyset, round-faced, strawberry blond
> man
Well, that wasn't my description -- but now that I've heard Mark
described as "strawberry blond," I'll use it!
> And there, in the middle of the sidewalk, in rush hour traffic --
In the lobby of the Tishman Building, actually, with people flooding by
in both directions.
kurt
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
David Goldfarb (aste...@slip.net) wrote:
: Katie and I got up earlier in order to make the Kurt Busiek discussion
: group. (Here again the program guide fell down: the group was not listed
: in the regular listings. It did make the grid in the back.) Kurt is smart
: and interesting...
Fooled you too, eh? ;)
Kurt is an amazing man, and I don't think there is a single person in
this industry for whom I hold more respect. I'm sorry I missed this
discussion group, and I thank you profusely for detailing it here. This
was very enjoyable to read.
: Peter was getting Rich Johnston to say, "Sorry, Brain", which was really quite
: eerie.
This is the single funniest line in your entire report. I laughed for
about half a minute after reading this one.
: Tom let Peter know about
: the time and place of the trivia competition.
Oh, *that's* how he knew. I was very surprised to see him there; I
didn't think he had much interest in the subject matter. :)
: After that was over we all trooped over to the Hyatt to try to find
: a place to sit. Mark Waid went along with us; just before we entered the
: lobby, he loudly announced that he was about to "turn into a normal person
: who doesn't know any of you." And sure enough, he immediately cut out on
: us. I thought it was pretty rude of him.
I don't know that it was meant the way it came out. And everyone has a
right to hang out and relax with the people they consider their friends.
But it's nice to hear that I wasn't the only person taken aback here.
: Eventually Elayne got tired...
Well, not *physically*, but I was pretty drained emotionally.
: and she didn't
: want to try to get back to the hotel alone, so the three of us caught a cab.
I couldn't *walk*, David. :)
Terrific Friday report, esp. the Busiek discussion. Eagerly awaiting more.
- Elayne
--
E-Mail me, the "Firehead Head," for more info about the official ()~~
Firesign Theatre newsletter, Four-Alarm FIRESIGNal, available via ##
snail mail or free online! "This replica... houses our guru, ##
Tiny Dr. Tim. Let's knock on the door and see if he's in..." _##_
Michael Chary
I wouldn't ordinarily respond to this, but it took me several read
throughs to figure out why my select file picked up on it, so I thought
I'd make fun of David. :)
David Goldfarb <aste...@slip.net> wrote:
> _Untold Tales of Spider-Man_ is going to get a new logo. Or rather,
>an old one -- when the Marvel PTB decided to allow diverse logos on the
>Spider-Books again, _Untold_ managed to get dibs on the original _Amazing
>Spider-Man_ logo. So the spiky cartoon one will be disappearing soon.
>Kurt's original name for the book was _Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man_
>but that got overruled. He doesn't like the name _Untold Tales_, because
>it gives him the impression of leftovers. "Once you've used up all those
>other Spider-Man tales, if you're still interested in more, get these *untold*
>tales!" He's considering trying to get the name changed. Pros: he'd like
>the name better, and if it were renumbered as well there might be a sales
>boost from the new #1. Cons: fans might have trouble finding the series,
>since Marvel is afraid to put creator names on their covers. People might
I beg your pardon? I'd like to think fans of comics can at least grasp
the mechanics of *reading* the credit boxes.
>mistake it for just another one of those limited series that Marvel keeps
>doing. Also, while a new #1 might get a boost, the post-#1 order drop might
Well, they might be disabused of the idea it was a miniseries when it
didn't end.
When I was 12, I sent a dozen stories into a local magazine. The editor
didn't accept any of them, but he did send me a note of encouragement
including one word of advice I have never forgotten. "Mike," he said,
"quit ending your stories with 'The End.' Trust me, when there aren't
any more words there, I'll figure out that I am supposed to stop reading."
>them. He's pleased because this annual has almost all the characters he
>feels that way about; he can do this, get it out of his system, and then
>never work for Marvel again. :-) Kurt wants to return to the concept of
Gee, Dworkin, is this a symptom of the mental illness you were talking
about? :)
I don't think Waid would forget a personal embarrassment if you fed him
librium through an iv tap :)
Actually, Todd Allen and I switched name tags at Chi con.
Two of the people we got were Busiek and Waid.
Kurt even signed Todd's book to me :)
>panel (number 1 of 2), of which I don't recall much except that Mark Waid
>promised not to kill off any more characters for a while.
Right.
> Round about 4:00 I met up with Katie again. (She'd had other things
>she wanted to see, so we'd split up before the Busiek group.) We did the
David, she can't miss you if you never leave :):)
>_Babylon 5_ presentation. We ate at The Old Spaghetti Factory, which was
>higher-priced than the Horton Plaza restaurants but gave a *lot* more food
>for the money.
Is there any decent food in San Diego? I remember being unimpressed when
I was there for my cooking competition, but that was a few years ago.
> We had to rush to make the GEnie meeting, but it turned out that JMS
>wasn't there after all. We did meet Tim Lynch and his wife whose name is
>escaping me. So after a couple of minutes we made a quiet exit.
I have always wanted to meet Lynch :(
>near the DC display. I stopped to ask Ivy if she'd met up with Kathy Li.
Rev. Mom, too :(
>was "Thaddeus", but he felt that "Zachary Thaddeus Paleozogt" didn't scan
You put this name here so the /chary/a:+ in my killfile would select it,
didn't you? :):)
> On the way out we noticed the giant concrete teddy bear holding the
>FAO Schwarz sign.
You saw me, and you didn't say "Hi?" You jerk!
>the final result: Pros 190, Tom Galloway 170. (Tom answered every question
>for our side. We had three people rotating: Elmo, Jim Murdoch, and
>Stephen Brumbaugh. Towards the end, I tried to simply rotate *all* of us
>offstage, including myself, since we'd be just as effective off as on. :-)
I want a hoops game next year. Me, Todd, Mike Kelly, Deitrich Kappe and
Mark Nevins against the pros. Full court. Game to fifty.
>
> After that was over we all trooped over to the Hyatt to try to find
>a place to sit. Mark Waid went along with us; just before we entered the
>lobby, he loudly announced that he was about to "turn into a normal person
>who doesn't know any of you." And sure enough, he immediately cut out on
>us. I thought it was pretty rude of him.
So, is this a Shazam type deal? He shouts "Sinclair Lewis" and turns into
George F. Babbitt?
> The post-Eisners dance party was going on. I was a bit disappointed
>to miss it, even if they did have the same lousy DJ as last year, but
>everyone else seemed to want to go to the bar on the top floor. We got
>a table, and sat and talked and watched the fog roll in from the ocean.
>Johanna had a book on the sociology of SF fandom, and we all looked at
>the chapter on K/S fiction. Eventually Elayne got tired, and she didn't
>want to try to get back to the hotel alone, so the three of us caught a cab.
>
You, Johanna and Elayne? What happened to Katie?
--
Court Philosopher and Barbarian, DNRC http://ezinfo.ucs.indiana.edu/~fchary
"At this point I am simply unwilling to bet against Phil Jackson and
Michael Jordan. I mean, at this point, why bother?" -- Chris Maka on whether
the Bulls can contend in 1996-1997.
Alan D. Earhart
> > On the way out we noticed the giant concrete teddy bear holding the
> >FAO Schwarz sign.
>
> You saw me, and you didn't say "Hi?" You jerk!
I've read quite a few descriptions of you in other people's con reports
but this is def. the strangest.
You're telling us that you really look like a FAO Schwarz sign?
Hmm...
Rodrigo Baeza(VP)
aste...@slip.net (David Goldfarb) writes:
: And at some point, Kurt told the story of how Mark Waid once called
:him a Nazi.
:
: It happened when he was an assistant editor at _Marvel Age_. He did
:an interview with Stan Lee -- not the Q&A type, but an article. He wrote
:something like, "The main co-architect of the Marvel Universe was Jack Kirby.
:Other artists involved were Steve Ditko, Gene Colan, Don Heck...[etc.])"
:Now, Mark Waid, who was writing reviews for _Amazing Heroes_ at the time,
:somehow managed to miss Kirby's name in there. He wrote a scathing article
:along the lines of, "Marvel's official policy is to deny Kirby's existence,
:and Jim Salicrup and Kurt Busiek are going along with it like good little
:Nazis."
So Mark Waid, before he became a pro, was just like the posters in RAC* he
dislikes, making unsupported assumptions, and insulting other pros (I mean,
Waid has been criticized on RAC*, but nobody has called him a Nazi, I think).
I have nothing against Waid, and I like his work, but I found this ironic.
Rodrigo Baeza
rba...@ing.puc.cl
Kurt Busiek
Michael Chary wrote:
>
>
> I beg your pardon? I'd like to think fans of comics can at least grasp
> the mechanics of *reading* the credit boxes.
That presumes they'll pick up the book first; given how many people
have told me they read _only_ UNTOLD TALES, that's by no means a
guarantee.
I think that readers could be sufficiently warned -- we could do house
ads in the last few issues with the old title announcing it (UNTOLD
has two pages of editor-controlled house ads each issue), which I
think would catch the attention of even those who don't read lettercols.
But I don't blame anyone for being concerned about not losing readers
in such a switch.
> Well, they might be disabused of the idea it was a miniseries when it
> didn't end.
Yeah. But we'd like them to know at the _start_. The danger is that
people who don't read PREVIEWS, or don't get news on the net, or
whatever, would ignore the book on the stands because they didn't know
what it was and they're predisposed to turn up their noses at most
Spidey-related product.
That doesn't describe all the UNTOLD readers by any means, but it must
describe some of them. And if we're considering a name-change (right
now it's just talk), it's only sensible to balance the readers we
might gain versus the readers we might lose.
What's your opinion, by the way? Change the title? Keep it? Renumber?
Don't renumber? Quit the book and write SUPERBABY: LEGENDS OF THE TOT
OF TOMORROW instead? Even if you don't read the book, treat it as an
intellectual excercise.
kurt
David Goldfarb
Michael Chary <ma...@po.cwru.edu> wrote:
)David Goldfarb <aste...@slip.net> wrote:
)>was "Thaddeus", but he felt that "Zachary Thaddeus Paleozogt" didn't scan
)
)You put this name here so the /chary/a:+ in my killfile would select it,
)didn't you? :):)
You Kibozo, you. Don't flatter yourself. <g>
)>Eventually Elayne got tired, and she didn't
)>want to try to get back to the hotel alone, so the three of us caught a cab.
)>
)
)You, Johanna and Elayne? What happened to Katie?
Me, Katie, and Elayne. I didn't think I'd expressed myself
*that* unclearly there...
David Goldfarb <*>|"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | uncertainty!"
aste...@slip.net | -- Douglas Adams, _The Hitchhiker's
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | Guide to the Galaxy_
Lance Squiddie Smith
bf...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael A. Chary) writes:
>Kurt Busiek (kdbu...@teleport.com) writes:
>> Michael Chary wrote:
>>>
>>> I want a hoops game next year. Me, Todd, Mike Kelly, Deitrich Kappe and
>>> Mark Nevins against the pros. Full court. Game to fifty.
>>
>> Okay, but the pros will be fielding Mike Richardson, Randy Stradley,
>> Ron Frenz, Marc Silvestri and Heidi MacDonald...
>I got three people on my team who played against Div I guys :)
Well, hell! tyg played a pick-up game against Michael Jordan. Sign
him up.
=============================
Lance "Cr2O3.2H2O" Smith | "No, Mr Peanut, I am not about to tell you my
(squi...@winternet.com) | fiendishly clever plan for world domination. You
Proud owner of the only | might escape. Instead, I think I shall feed you
Paragon Panther ever made | to my cat." Ian Feming's _Peanuts are Forever_
Michael A. Chary
[crossposted and followups set to rac.marvel.u]
Kurt Busiek <kdbu...@teleport.com> wrote:
>Michael Chary wrote:
>>
>>
>> I beg your pardon? I'd like to think fans of comics can at least grasp
>> the mechanics of *reading* the credit boxes.
>
>That presumes they'll pick up the book first; given how many people
>have told me they read _only_ UNTOLD TALES, that's by no means a
>guarantee.
How do these people know that they'll like UTOS?
If it's due to your presence, they might check out a new title to see if
someone they like is on it.
>I think that readers could be sufficiently warned -- we could do house
>ads in the last few issues with the old title announcing it (UNTOLD
>has two pages of editor-controlled house ads each issue), which I
>think would catch the attention of even those who don't read lettercols.
>But I don't blame anyone for being concerned about not losing readers
>in such a switch.
Did "Spectacular"'s readership go down when it changed it's name?
>> Well, they might be disabused of the idea it was a miniseries when it
>> didn't end.
>
>Yeah. But we'd like them to know at the _start_. The danger is that
>people who don't read PREVIEWS, or don't get news on the net, or
>whatever, would ignore the book on the stands because they didn't know
>what it was and they're predisposed to turn up their noses at most
>Spidey-related product.
>
>That doesn't describe all the UNTOLD readers by any means, but it must
>describe some of them. And if we're considering a name-change (right
>now it's just talk), it's only sensible to balance the readers we
>might gain versus the readers we might lose.
Hey, it's your industry. Just strikes me as rather bizarre.
>What's your opinion, by the way? Change the title? Keep it? Renumber?
>Don't renumber? Quit the book and write SUPERBABY: LEGENDS OF THE TOT
>OF TOMORROW instead? Even if you don't read the book, treat it as an
>intellectual excercise.
I agree that the title "Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman" has a greater
resonance, but I think Marvel should stick with "Untold" because it opens
the door to an entire franchise and I want to see "Untold Tales of Dr
Strange," "Untold Tales of Daredevil," "Untold Tales of Thor" and so on.
I think Tom Peyer could do a great job on "Untold Tales of Dr Strange."
And Priest would be a god on "Untold Tales of Iron Man." Walt Simonson on
"Untold Tales of Thor." Hey, it could be great :)
--
When there's no one there, it's Norg.
"The BBC's trailer department keeps calling the O J Simpson case "the trial
of the century." Sure, OJ's a big name, but I still think the title belongs,
narrowly, to Nuremberg." - Jack Hughes, "The Independent on Sunday."
Michael A. Chary
Kurt Busiek (kdbu...@teleport.com) writes:
> Michael Chary wrote:
>>
>> I want a hoops game next year. Me, Todd, Mike Kelly, Deitrich Kappe and
>> Mark Nevins against the pros. Full court. Game to fifty.
>
> Okay, but the pros will be fielding Mike Richardson, Randy Stradley,
> Ron Frenz, Marc Silvestri and Heidi MacDonald...
I got three p[eople on my team who played against Div I guys :)
Michael A. Chary
David Goldfarb (gold...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU) writes:
> Michael Chary <ma...@po.cwru.edu> wrote:
> )David Goldfarb <aste...@slip.net> wrote:
> )>was "Thaddeus", but he felt that "Zachary Thaddeus Paleozogt" didn't scan
> )
> )You put this name here so the /chary/a:+ in my killfile would select it,
> )didn't you? :):)
>
> You Kibozo, you. Don't flatter yourself. <g>
Somebody has to :)
It's actually self defense because people keep mentioning me in threads I
don't read. Priest has sent me notes asking why I didn't respond to some
request he made in a post, for instance.
> )>Eventually Elayne got tired, and she didn't
> )>want to try to get back to the hotel alone, so the three of us caught a cab.
> )>
> )
> )You, Johanna and Elayne? What happened to Katie?
>
> Me, Katie, and Elayne. I didn't think I'd expressed myself
> *that* unclearly there...
Katie's name doesn't appear once in that paragraph, or the four preceding
ones. Johanna's name appears a couple sentences before. :)
Michael A. Chary
Lance "Squiddie" Smith (squi...@parka.winternet.com) writes:
> bf...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael A. Chary) writes:
>
>>Kurt Busiek (kdbu...@teleport.com) writes:
>>> Michael Chary wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I want a hoops game next year. Me, Todd, Mike Kelly, Deitrich Kappe and
>>>> Mark Nevins against the pros. Full court. Game to fifty.
>>>
>>> Okay, but the pros will be fielding Mike Richardson, Randy Stradley,
>>> Ron Frenz, Marc Silvestri and Heidi MacDonald...
>
>>I got three people on my team who played against Div I guys :)
>
> Well, hell! tyg played a pick-up game against Michael Jordan. Sign
> him up.
Nah, those NC types don't know anything about hoops. The only reason MJ's
not contaminated is he was born in New York.
Tom Galloway
In article <4stcav$6...@freenet-news.carleton.ca> ma...@po.cwru.edu writes:
>Lance "Squiddie" Smith (squi...@parka.winternet.com) writes:
>> Well, hell! tyg played a pick-up game against Michael Jordan. Sign
>> him up.
>Nah, those NC types don't know anything about hoops. The only reason MJ's
>not contaminated is he was born in New York.
Uh huh. That explains why Dean Smith coached players are in such demand
in the NBA. They actually have some clue about fundamentals (ones who leave
after sophomore year for the NBA with Dean practially giving them a one-way
ticket excepted).
Anyway, the reason I'm posting (and massively off-topic to boot) is that I got
a fair amount of email asking about the pick-up game. My last summer at UNC-CH
was the summer before Jordan started there. Some friends and I were playing a
game in the gym, and a fair number of the men's team, including new frosh such
as this Jordan guy, came in. All the courts were taken, so they had to
challenge. Probably seeing that my group could've all tried out for the lead
in an accurately named "White Men Can't Jump" movie, we got challenged. We
figured we'd get killed, but what the heck; when else would we play against
future NBAers?
To give you an idea of how bad we were, I was tallest at 6'0" and so got
to be center. I spent most of the game admiring the patterns on the soles
of their sneakers. We scored once or twice by adopting the strategy of
bombing from way out, firing whenever one of them approached on defense.
So, yes, I've played against Michael Jordan. And the result was about the
same, only reversed, as if we'd gone up against each other on Silver Age
comics trivia. Even if we specialized still further on Strange Sports
Stories.
In other NBA contacts that are about as relevant for putting me on a bball
team, I've sold some of my chess books to Cedric "Cornbread" Maxwell at
an auction, getting into it enough to not even realize who it was at first,
saying "Sold to the tall guy in the World Championship t-shirt", and my
sister was Eric Montross' English TA.
tyg t...@netcom.com
Michael Chary
In article <tygDuw...@netcom.com>, Tom Galloway <t...@netcom.com> wrote:
>In article <4stcav$6...@freenet-news.carleton.ca> ma...@po.cwru.edu writes:
>>Lance "Squiddie" Smith (squi...@parka.winternet.com) writes:
>>> Well, hell! tyg played a pick-up game against Michael Jordan. Sign
>>> him up.
>>Nah, those NC types don't know anything about hoops. The only reason MJ's
>>not contaminated is he was born in New York.
>
>Uh huh. That explains why Dean Smith coached players are in such demand
>in the NBA. They actually have some clue about fundamentals (ones who leave
>after sophomore year for the NBA with Dean practially giving them a one-way
>ticket excepted).
Oh, yeah, I think of all those college titles Smith won with James
Worthy, David Thompson, Sam Perkins, Michael Jordan, Brad
Daugherty, Rasheed Wallace, Jerry Stackhouse et al. and I am really
impressed. :)
Hoosier ball, man, the only way to go.
You know, I really think there should be more sports comic in the US.
They sell like hot cakes in Japan.
Todd Allen
In article <31F184...@teleport.com>,
>> Mark Nevins against the pros. Full court. Game to fifty.
>
>Ron Frenz, Marc Silvestri and Heidi MacDonald...
Richardson's tall enough, but is by no means solid enough to bang with Chary or
Kappe. Silvestri can't be over 6'4". MacDonald can't score 50 all by
herself.
-Todd, who wears a #40 Pistons jersey in Chicago.
Johanna Draper
In article <31F183...@teleport.com>,
Kurt Busiek <kdbu...@teleport.com> wrote:
>What's your opinion, by the way? Change the title? Keep it? Renumber?
>Don't renumber? Quit the book and write SUPERBABY: LEGENDS OF THE TOT
>OF TOMORROW instead?
Ooh! I vote for Superbaby! And Baby Lois! And Wonder Tot!
Ok, ok, my suggestion would be to change the title and renumber, under the
theory that most of your readers now are the kind of people who'd seek out
your work, and the new title launch might pick up some new ones.
Johanna
--
"He thinks she doesn't know ... women always know. But I'm gonna be the
one to break all of those rules. I think those people are fools.
Scandal's nothing new. What good is the truth if we never use it?"
--- "Trust Me", Voice of the Beehive
Rick Jones
Elmo: The Legendary Journeys (mor...@riph5.rice.edu) wrote:
> aste...@slip.net (David Goldfarb) writes:
> > Someone brought up the issue of other countries' heroes in general and Asian
> > heroes in particular.
> lives in Southern and Eastern Asia.
Depends on the source of super-powers:
1> trained human (i.e. Batman, Iron Fist): just as likely to be in
Southeast Asia. In fact, I'm sure that the Ancient Monsateries are
getting darn tired of teaching us their super-secret martial arts.
Cultural differences may keep Asian martial artists from putting on
tights and fighting crime. Perhaps they think it's silly? America, on
the other hand, has a triadition of individual heroism, from Davy
Crockett, to the famous gunslingers of the old west, to (in a supers
world) 40's masked avengers.
2> Gadgeteers (i.e Iron Man, Blue Beetle): Depends on 1> a high
technology level (which the US has, generally, higher levels) and 2> a
willingness to use it to beat up bank robbers. The US probably has an
edge on high-tech heroes.
3> Mutants/Mutates/Meta-Gene Positives: (X-Men / Spider-Man / Flash)
Mutants should be spread out all over the world (and, in Marvel, they are
- though Xavier mostly recruited from the Americas). Mutates and
Meta-Gene folks tend to rely on scientific processes to activate their
meta-genes (i.e. Flash, Hourman, The Fantastic Four, etc).
4> Aliens (Superman, Hawkman, Silver Surfer): Aliens who plan their trips
will probably realize that the UN (the closest thing we have to a world
govt) is in New York, and the most technically advanced country is
America. Aliens who crash are more liekly to land in the ocean than on
dry land.
5> Magical/Mythic Heroes (Thor, Wonder Woman, Dr Strange): The highest
concentration of mythic characters who still take interest in Humanity
appears to be the Greek pantheon. Dunno why, but they've always been
poking their snoots in our affairs, while Kali keeps to herself. Maybe
there's a magical focus in Europe. But there should be (unless we're
given a good reason why not) just as many (if not more) magical supers in
Asia as America.
--
Rick Jones "You want to tell me who to shoot?"
ri...@blkbox.com "Christ, I don't know. Everybody but me, I think."
Mey...@aol.com --Hawk & Spenser, Valediction
http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/
Elmo: The Legendary Journeys
aste...@slip.net (David Goldfarb) writes:
> Someone brought up the issue of other countries' heroes in general and Asian
> heroes in particular.
Me. It's a particular bugaboo of mine. Over half the world's population
lives in Southern and Eastern Asia.
--
"A hypothetical paradox: What would happen in a battle between a Star Trek
security team, who always get killed soon after appearing, and a squad of
Imperial Stormtroopers, who can't hit the broad side of a planet?"
--Tom Galloway
elmo (mor...@physics.rice.edu,mor...@fnalv.fnal.gov)
http://www.bonner.rice.edu/morrow
Bob Heer
Kurt Busiek <kdbu...@teleport.com> wrote:
> >What's your opinion, by the way? Change the title? Keep it? Renumber?
> >Don't renumber? Quit the book and write SUPERBABY: LEGENDS OF THE TOT
> >OF TOMORROW instead?
Well, I often call the book SPIDEY SUPER-STORIES, so I think you can
guess my choice. Though I like the SUPERBABY one.
Maybe wait a year and change UToS to SPIDERMAN:THE COLLEGE YEARS....
Bob
ComixAce
Just to stop all the rumors, the only sport in which I officially compete
against ANYONE is billiards!
-----------------------------------------------------------
ComixAce "Death is the mother
(Heidi M.) of beauty" -- Wallace Stevens
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/comixace
Johanna Draper
In article <4t9l0b$1...@news.acns.nwu.edu>,
Todd Allen <magi...@merle.acns.nwu.edu> wrote:
>take on the Purple Pro's (15 point penalty for that pun -- very bad) in a
>drinking contest. Bring Garth Ennis, we don't care.
There was a drinkoff in SD. The Americans beat the Brits. :)
Johanna
Brian H. Bailie
Johanna Draper wrote:
>
> There was a drinkoff in SD. The Americans beat the Brits. :)
>
> Johanna
Same thing happened last year. Oh, the British are quick out of the blocks and great
sprinters, all right. Fine in the 100 yard dash. Unfortunately, they keep entering the
Marathon.
Brian
(Very much in the Olympic spirit)
Michael A. Chary
[crossposted and followups set to junk :)]
Johanna Draper <dan...@aurora.cis.upenn.edu> wrote:
>Todd Allen <magi...@merle.acns.nwu.edu> wrote:
>>take on the Purple Pro's (15 point penalty for that pun -- very bad) in a
>>drinking contest. Bring Garth Ennis, we don't care.
>
>There was a drinkoff in SD. The Americans beat the Brits. :)
>
YES!!! WE'RE NUMBER ONE!!!!
Jeremy Billones
In article <4t8ra7$6...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
ComixAce <comi...@aol.com> wrote:
>Just to stop all the rumors, the only sport in which I officially compete
>against ANYONE is billiards!
Is that a suggestion for the next Lulu fundraiser?
I'd be in...
Jeremy Billones bill...@primenet.com
Objective Reality Isn't Go Caps & Orioles! ISTJ USSF Certifiable
"Let's talk about inherent sexism: an unlimited magic user isn't as good as
someone who talks to fish?" - Johanna Draper
Todd Allen
In article <4t8ra7$6...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
ComixAce <comi...@aol.com> wrote:
>Just to stop all the rumors, the only sport in which I officially compete
>against ANYONE is billiards!
Guess that scratches the pro roundball team. Perhaps Mike Kelly and I could
take on the Purple Pro's (15 point penalty for that pun -- very bad) in a
drinking contest. Bring Garth Ennis, we don't care.
-Todd
Timothy W. Lynch
aste...@slip.net (David Goldfarb) writes:
> We had to rush to make the GEnie meeting, but it turned out that JMS
>wasn't there after all. We did meet Tim Lynch and his wife whose name is
>escaping me. So after a couple of minutes we made a quiet exit.
That would be Lisa. Specifically, Lisa Hazard. :-) Good to see you
again, and to meet Katie.
> After that we returned to the Clarion to drop off the day's loot. We
>walked, Tom rode in Peter's rented convertible. Tom later considered this
>a mistake.
Lisa actually summed it up quite well when we finally got out of the
car: "Thank you for choosing Mr. David's Wild Ride. Please do not
exit the car until the ride has come to a complete stop."
It was ... an experience.
Tim Lynch