Surely there are those in the lineups along the West Coast who
personify what it means to be a "heavy" local. Stink eye. Harsh words.
Burning others on take off and on occasion, maybe even a physical
altercation or some window waxing. Maybe Owl was right in one respect,
a lot of these so-called locals rarely venture away from the confines
of their surroundings.
Yet, in this changing world, sometimes localism is the only way to
keep the peace. What? Bullshit! How? It seems that with the growth of
wave sliding, surfers are always looking to travel to those less
crowded peaks. In my opinion, here is where the root of the localism
issue can be found
Most journeymen surfers are respectful enough of the local scene to
almost be able to blend in. Some travel alone, others in a group no
bigger than two. They surf. They understand the etiquette and are
usually rewarded with a good experience. These travelers rarely talk
about specifics when they return home, if at all, and especially not
on the Internet.
On the other side of the coin, you have those who tend to be sort of
obnoxious when they travel. These people treat a new environment as if
it was their own back yard, with a complete disregard for the local
scene. They are loud. They burn others and then create a scene when
confronted. Depending on the location, those who push all the wrong
buttons are usually asked to paddle in, and sometimes these offenders
just get their ass kicked if they continue with the lack of respect. I
think this would be the general reasoning behind localist tactics.
Yes, it is true that there are surf spots ~ cough (Palos Verdes) ~
where localism is taken too far. Fools create a scene with their
actions, which only draw more attention to their precious spots. The
media creates the drama and they hype grows. And this is how the
general public, as well as other surfers, perceive localism as a
whole. But I digress.
For surfers who call the area from California's northern coast to the
Pacific Northwest home, localism isn't really about keeping local
spots local for stupid and selfish reasons. It is more about
protecting the serenity and tranquility of the area. For those who
have never traveled north, it may be hard for you to understand the
concept of keeping surfing on the down low, as well as resorting to
minor bouts of localism in order to keep the peace and some order in
the lineup.
It is inevitable that the better quality surf spots of the lower West
Coast will one day become just as crowded and just as aggressive as
say, the North Shore of Oahu. This new boom in surfing and the
Internet may in fact speed up that process by a couple of years as
more competent surfers migrate to the confines of the stormy coast.
For those of us who have cut our teeth and done our time here, the
idea of eventually sharing the lineup with up to 60 of our closest
friends is not a very appealing thought.
Although, from what I have heard, one infamous piece of oceanic
property saw close to 45 people in the water at one time. This was on
a marginal day. 45 people? That was practically unheard of a few years
ago.
So where is this all leading? Nowhere really.
Owl Chapman may have been right in some respects, but I do not believe
he fully understand the concept of localism. In some areas, even
surfers who don't claim to like the idea of violence and agro vibes in
the water can relate to the need for it on certain occasions. Why?
Respect is a powerful thing.
How would you like it if some stranger came to your house and decided
to sit in your favorite chair, grope your beautiful wife and drink all
of your beer… all while flaunting it in your face?
Its no different in the water.
Disclaimer
The opinion represented above is solely that of Dimly Lit,
and does not reflect anybody else's view.
- - -
http://pacificwaverider.com/driftwood/
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
- Jeff Spicoli
...[snip Owl]...
> Respect is a powerful thing.
Respect of what?
--
Farmer Brown
Falls Creek, Australia
http://www.mountainman.com.au
> Snipped ponderous localism ponderings.
> How would you like it if some stranger came to your house and decided
> to sit in your favorite chair, grope your beautiful wife and drink all
> of your beer. all while flaunting it in your face?
Sheeit, this happens to me everytime either Doc or Ralph comes over .
I draw the line at heavy petting though .........
Rico
i'm from local 22 outa westport wa and i figured it's because when i
travel outa state im no longer a local then thats when the application
of the WAF becomes neccessary something that Owl couldnt ever consider
drift...@hotmail.com (Dimly Lit) wrote in message news:<474a70e4.02121...@posting.google.com>...
> What was it that Owl Chapman was quoted as saying? "Don't pull a driftcoast."
> snipped hallucinatory rational on why it's ok to be an asshole in the
lineup
> How would you like it if some stranger came to your house and decided
> to sit in your favorite chair, grope your beautiful wife and drink all
> of your beer. all while flaunting it in your face?
If it was a hot chick in a bikini...kewl.
JS
Problem here is you're comparing the worst behavior
of visitors and/or crowds to the best behavior of locals,
and using that to justify something you call "localism."
In reality, what we call "localism" is *unprovoked*
harassment or violence on non-local surfers.
To borrow your analogy, localism is more like
beating the shit out of some stranger who came to
your house and decided to try to sell you Girl Scout
cookies.
You also attempt to justify it to keep the crowds down,
thus making life better for a small number of locals but
worse for a larger number of non-locals. The greatest
good for the greatest number applies trumps this notion,
especially since we're talking about the surf, which
knows no boundaries or lot lines.
Sure, if someone provokes you, you can respond, but
that applies equally to locals or nonlocals.
--
.-``'. Tim Maddux, Postdoctoral Investigator, WHOI
.` .`~
_.-' '._ "Moderation in all things... including moderation."
driftkook says:
>Who knows though, maybe I'm just a fool.
I say, I agree that you are - at the least!
I have read some, err, many - in my opinion - incredibly inane and
yes, flat-out stupid comments, posts, and reports, and, just when I
think that contributors, like driftkook, can't get any more imbecilic
than they have been, kookdrift launches this scud regarding localism:
"Owl Chapman may have been right in some respects, but I do not
believe
he fully understand the concept of localism."
I may be pretty old, but I do remember surfing with Owl in Huntington
Beach, CA - Newport Beach - CA, and on the North Shore - Oahu - no
localism there, bra - if anything, there was probably more localism
back in the sixties and early seventies, because babies like rat-teeth
didn't go crying to daddy's attorney.
If there is anyone in this world who obviously does not understand the
concept (and practice) of surfing, and the concept of localism, and
how it impacts real surfers, it's YOU - kook!
Just my opinion of course....
I thought your pooch enjoyed that?
-Saint Bernard
So I wrote:
I'm really pretty impressed that things run as smoothly as they do in
the water most of the time, when you think about the logistics of
surfing.
Lots of people paddle out into the water and try to decide who gets to
ride a relatively small number of incoming waves- and all without
talking much or at all. Often as not, a fair number (or even most) of
them don't know each other at all and are trying to size each other up
for the first time. The "strong and silent type" is our default role
model, so we've got a bunch of unfamiliar guys who are trying to
communicate through symbolic, physical language rarely used in other
contexts. Where local surf custom varies regionally, this too must be
communicated or inferred symbolically. And lots of the players are
young and relatively inexperienced socially.
The tendency to speak through actions not words is reinforced by the
generally polite notion that talking much will degrade the peaceful,
tranquil experience many seek. This is as it should be.
What passes for "the unwritten rules" of wave allocation and lineup
conduct are a few often contradictory rules of thumb that require a
lot of experience, subtlety, careful observation, and attention to
nuances of meaning both from the waves and from the people in order to
interpret correctly.
Who's closest to the curl, in the best position for the wave, most
likely to make the section to come, adjust for equipment advantages
and perceptions of how fairly (or un) they're being employed, adjust
for respect given to seniority, adjust for respect given to ability,
adjust for who is most wave-starved, adjust for respect given to
character, adjust for intimidation factors intended or received? All
in split seconds? With strangers in your lineup? Without talking?
Without having to (or wanting to) have to think too much?
Whew. It's easy to see why most locals simply fall back on giving
waves to their friends and trying to starve out the strangers on
general principle unless they're good enough to flat outcompete you
(in which case, you get grumpy after a while), or hot enough to earn
your respect (in which case, you give- usually grudgingly)."
Surfer Bob
Church of the Open Sky
bi...@alwayssports.com (Bill Andrews) wrote in message news:<f48ef0fa.02121...@posting.google.com>...
Hey asshole, guess what ?
Yer getting older as you read this !!
Clueless Dick .
Do you even have pubic hair yet ?
Rico
*Your* shoes are waiting.
--
OBsurfr
www.kneed4speed.com
"Bill Andrews" <bi...@alwayssports.com> wrote in message
news:f48ef0fa.02121...@posting.google.com...
sponge
Yer still way off base with the Bellevue thing though.
C.
On 12 Dec 2002 13:09:19 -0800, surfe...@hotmail.com (Surfer Bob)
wrote:
I find great delight when punk kids like you, puff-out their
chicken-breast chests, and huff and puff about how cool they are.
Can there be anything more pathetic in the surfing world than some
kook, probably almost 35 years younger than I am, challenging my
ability in the water.
What's even more pathetic is that I do surf better than you do - plus
I take great pride in being "such as asshole."
The day that you hear me whine, is the day that I'll let you powder my
butt and then you can Depend me.
Until then, please keep up your whining and pissing and moaning about
your kookdom - you still are my reference point for whining little
babies who can't catch a wave, unless I guess, you want to rent
Typhoon Lagoon for yourself.
That's the only way you'll catch a wave - you'd probably get cut-off
by a local - if you had to share the wave pool.
BA
surfe...@hotmail.com (Surfer Bob) wrote in message news:<d5579a18.0212...@posting.google.com>...
"Dimly Lit" <drift...@hotmail.com> wrote
Typhoon Lagoon? Ha, comedy. Whatever you say gramps.
bi...@alwayssports.com (Bill Andrews) wrote in message news:<f48ef0fa.02121...@posting.google.com>...
> I find great delight when punk kids like you, puff-out their
> chicken-breast chests, and huff and puff about how cool they are.
>
Yes. Some laud localism as a system of government by those who know a
spot best. With exceptionally conscious locals, I guess it might be.
At its very best, it could even be a fair and friendly system of
government. But usually it's not. Usually it's just what you said,
often with a lot of holier-than-thou rationalizations about resource
protection tagged on as justification for gangbanger tactics.
I think Dim is banking heavily on the notion of "flaunting it in your
face," a highly subjective notion that is monstrously easy to
misconstrue or project on someone you've decided you don't like.
> ...especially since we're talking about the surf, which
> knows no boundaries or lot lines...
This is a very important principle to defend. It's NOT Like someone
coming over to your house and taking a lot of advantages, because you
may own your house but you don't own the surf. Even if you live in
front of it and surf it every day and the other guy's from a long way
away and you've never seen him before. Below the mean high tide line,
the waves belong to the people- all of them. You may be more of a
stakeholder than someone who's just passing through, but that doesn't
give you rights to exclusive use of the waves. Who gets the waves must
be negotiated- preferably by civilized means.
And surfing a wave at your spot is certainly not like assaulting your
wife. It's more like walking on the sidewalk in your town, or maybe
being one more car (in a traffic jam) on your street.
It is valid to expect travellers to be respectful of local culture and
local people anywhere they go, on the land and in the lineup. It's
valid to politely explain to travellers your perception of local
customs and to expect them to make a good faith effort to be a
considerate guest in your town. But it is not valid to expect
travellers not to show up at all in a public area and it's not OK to
beat them up unless they act really out of line and other means of
conflict resolution have been tried first.
Outamywaykook!
Surfer Bob
"superfly " <superfly@the_ghetto.com> wrote in message news:<10398120...@utility.isomedia.com>...
> I'm prolly more surprised than you that your regurgitation of everything
> ever written about locals in surfermag elicited such a good response
> from bob.
... you're a closet reader of the mainstream surf media, and you love
it?
beats the bejezus out of me. have travelled, and been a respected local in
places where the native language ain't English.
>
> Surely there are those in the lineups along the West Coast
Yep- you done said it right here, in the last words. Left Coast,
That crap don't happen here.
doc......... right coast ...........
Yeah, here we even keep our bar names secret.
C******n K**d
--
.-``'. Tim Maddux, Postdoctoral Investigator, WHOI
.` .`~
_.-' '._ All your wave are belong to me!
After reading some of the harsher comments in this thread, I'm amazed things
run as smooth as they do both in the lineup and out. Perhpas there is a
'silent but reasonable majority' keeping both sides in line.
CF
"Surfer Bob" <surfe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d5579a18.0212...@posting.google.com...
Dear BA, I think the kid's shinning you but what he's trying to say
is: "You've Got to Know When to Hold Them and Know When to Fold Them".
toughie
"Timothy B. Maddux" <tbma...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:atebcn$rom$1...@naig.caltech.edu...
Credibility Context:
Bill Andrews has been surfing for 6 decades. He has surfed extensively on both
coasts of North America, and in Hawaii. He has surfed with numerous alt.surfers
who can verify that he still charges. As past president of the Windansea surf
club, BA is very well qualified to speak on the subject of localism.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/20638082/18522859DxZKCIdItj
Eric Burch has been fantasizing out loud (on alt.surfing) about surfing big
waves for 6 years, and has been repeatedly caught lying about surfing waves from
20 to 40 feet. He has never met or surfed with another alt.surfer. The content
of his posts makes it questionable whether he has ever actually surfed at all.
How many times have we not heard this slam on my name? My oh my, the
originality just explodes from your brain. How do you cope with your
genius? *golf clap* I applaud you and fear what may come next. Here's
a person who really knows how to flame a guy and make it sting there
boys and girls.
But then again, I like this questionable title. Whether you realize
this or not, I've become the big mystery. I'm sure my name has even
come up amongst the alt.surfing gatherings. All I can say is words can
be decieving and you're only helping my cause. Again, genius.
*priceless Mastercard clap*
And B.A. is still a cranky old fart.
---
Patiently waiting for the next great flame...
Stokely Pitman <spi...@nonewsspamguy.com> wrote in message news:<atgcc...@drn.newsguy.com>...
>
> i'm from local 22 outa westport wa and i figured it's because when i
> travel outa state im no longer a local then thats when the application
> of the WAF becomes neccessary something that Owl couldnt ever consider
actually you'd be a "boomer". And
you would be placed on the B list
(the bottom rung at the Union Hall).
You would only be able to take the
waves that nobody else wanted.
Though after 2000 hours of surfing in
that local as a "boomer", you would
be eligible to apply before the
Executive Board of the Local to have
your membership transfered to that
Local from your home Local. If
accepted by the Executive Board, you
would then be on the A1 list, which
would give you first choice in taking
waves, depending upon what row you
are in on the Out Of Waves List.
It's all in the International
Constitution.
> You're not a local unless your permanent address is within walking
distance of
> the break.
If I walked to what I call my local break it would take
me 15 hours --- When planning a dawn patrol session
on the morrow I'd need to set just after lunch today.
Keep paddling into them,
--
Farmer Brown
Falls Creek, Australia
http://www.mountainman.com.au
--------------------------------------
Rodrigo 'R-3' Rodriguez
Thinking of layers of SPF, not rubber.
Well, in the case of the house, chair, and beer, there are some
ownership issues involved.
In the case of some guy groping my head lady, Messers Smith & Wesson
tell me that someone might not leave the house under his or her own
power. I'm betting the she & I would walk out (and she's a much better
shot than I am).
In the surf, however, all bets are off. Waves are open source.
--
Only 8 shopping days 'til my birthday
You're getting better at irony.
I think you mean they're Free and/or free.
--
.-``'. Tim Maddux, Postdoctoral Investigator, WHOI
.` .`~
_.-' '._ "From the essence of pure stoke springs all creation."
No.
>Perhaps there is nothing more pathetic than some old fart that thinks
he's >some kind of tough guy.
Eric my son -
If you are referring to me as "some old fart" the least you could do
is preface it with Mr. Old Fart - I certainly don't think I'm a tough
guy, nor have I ever even intimated that I am - now an ass hole -
that's a whole different story - it's taken me a long time to reach
that point.
But Young Mr. Burch, you on the other hand - at your age - you have
most of your life left to live.
I know that kids like you hate to be told "you should" but in your
case too bad - You should be at the top of your game, travelling the
world, riding big waves, banging every chick possible.
But no, instead, you hang around your keyboard and fantasize what it's
really like to really surf - profile or no -
Now, in my opinion, that's pathetic -
> Typhoon Lagoon? Ha, comedy. Whatever you say gramps.
No Eric - Typhoon Lagoon is not comedy - it's actually a pretty fun
wave to ride - in fact for Orlando, Florida, it's a great wave.
It's just the thought of you getting cut-off by some fat lady from
Arkansas - as she rides her inflatable dragon and her rat-teethed kids
cheering her on from the sidelines - The perfect place for her spawn -
the only place for you.
BA
This imagery is stunning Bill. If I were a Hollywood mogul I'd steal this idea
and write up a proposal to spin it into a movie, i.e. Blue Crush, only using
itinerant white trash from the hinterlands. But it needs a working title.
Any suggestions?
-Felicity Squatengotit
Blue trash?
@lex
>Blue trash?
Catchy Alex. ;) Since you're going to have some time on your hands and you'll
want to spend it stimulating that melon on your shoulders after it's ordeal,
contact Miklos Sullivan to volunteer for the AS writer's workshop. Once he finds
a suitable topic to spin an AS screenplay or worse, serial story, I'm sure
you'll consider it time well spent - making up stuff about others on ASers.
-Throckmorton Ballbagger, Jr.
Foon wrote:
Better than letting them make it up about themselves!
@lex and I have been in touch via email already, but haven't discussed new
screenplay material. We've been setting up a network to smuggle surf
contraband between the US and France. It should net us millions, especially
since we've left AS squeezed out of the deal.
Alex will use his cut to pay for his re-hab. I'm going to blow mine on another
worthless teen babe girlfriend......
btw, I loved Bill's imagery also. It did trigger a question I've been meaning to
ask.
Those board shorts that Andy is going to send to Keener, do they come with
suspenders?
Mike
Millions??? Wow.
> Alex will use his cut to pay for his re-hab. I'm going to blow mine on
another
> worthless teen babe girlfriend......
Mike you should not even *mention* this sort of things here. I mean she is
15yo!
@lex
Over the hill in some countries .
Just ripe in France.
http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm
Rico
You do have one good point though, about me sitting in front of this
dusty old computer and fantasizing about surfing again. It has gotten
kind of pathetic… that I waste my time here bickering with an
Alzheimer's patient, a little red headed girl from Nebraska and some
guy named Tim. I was hoping to avoid this kind of attention, but A.S.
won't let me be. And here I am now. Thanks for setting me straight.
Can I aspire to be like you?
I guess part of the reason I keep coming back is the entertainment.
It's really a shame that there isn't more originality in the flames
directed at me. I mean, honestly, how many variations of the "Eric
don't surf!" rally cry can we work with here? Don't be another sheep
Ol…Mr. Old Fart. Be a wolf. I would consider these little moments of
yours to be a tad more pathetic than that of some surf rat stuck on
the sidelines with an injury. Wouldn't you agree?
Oh wait… scratch that, I don't surf. Gosh, how come I keep forgetting
that?
I do have one question though B.A., when did you first realize that
you were in love with Typhoon lagoon and it's backwoods residents? So
is vibing Mickey and friends a way to prove how much of an asshole you
really are? Its good to dream. Good luck!
- - -
"So won't you come on and let me know
Should I stay or should I go?" – The Clash
bi...@alwayssports.com (Bill Andrews) wrote in message news:<f48ef0fa.02121...@posting.google.com>...
> But no, instead, you hang around your keyboard and fantasize what it's
> really like to really surf - profile or no -
>
> Now, in my opinion, that's pathetic -
> I guess part of the reason I keep coming back is the entertainment.
> It's really a shame that there isn't more originality in the flames
> directed at me. I mean, honestly, how many variations of the "Eric
snip
I dunno, Eric, you got to admit that the below was pretty
damned funny.
> >
> > It's just the thought of you getting cut-off by some fat lady from
> > Arkansas - as she rides her inflatable dragon and her rat-teethed kids
> > cheering her on from the sidelines - The perfect place for her spawn -
> > the only place for you.
It captures the look so gracefully. I always use 'bullet headed brats'
to describe those kids, BA got it so much better.
This stuff is so much funnier when we don't make it up.
:^)
Mike
oops. I shoulda been more specific on what the cut was... :^)
>
> > Alex will use his cut to pay for his re-hab. I'm going to blow mine on
> another
> > worthless teen babe girlfriend......
>
> Mike you should not even *mention* this sort of things here. I mean she is
> 15yo!
'teen babe' to me is 30. My M.O. is to buy her a condo on the beach
in South Bay then she changes the locks, and her cell phone number.
Mike
A thoughtful response from me and a low content taunt from you?
No surprises here.
Surfer Bob
Bullshit
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=f48ef0fa.0211010625.3544e4bd%40posting.goog
le.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
Maybe you were joking? It's kinda hard to take seriously threats from a 70 y/o
bald bitch
who has spent his whole life trying to get on the cover of surfermag, being the
president
of a surfing club <gag>, and "banging as many chicks as possible".
Somehow that doesn't add up to "badass" in my book.
"Surfer Bob" <surfe...@hotmail.com> wrote
That's true, Sully. Actually, BA is
getting a little personal here. The
fat lady who ran into me was from Kentucky and she ditched on me
in the t-shirt line.
Surff
Skate rat has his front teeth kicked in by his 200 lb girlfriend for sitting
around the house all day watching TV and typing retarded shit on the
internet... She also needs a root canal so they make up and motor
into half moon bay to get their bad teeth fixed up... Rat's reconstructive
surgery goes quick so he has a few hours to kill while her root canal is
underway. He wonders over to mavericks where the swell of the year
is going off.
Skin dog's tow-in partner takes a 60 foot air drop on the backend of
a gorkin flip and busts his board in half and tweaks his knee. He's done
for the day. Skin dog is desperately searching for a new partner but no
one has the sack to step up to 80 foot top-to-bottom mavs on this day.
Enter Rat. Rat takes the helm and whips skin dog into a few 80 footers.
Skin dog gets tired and it's time for Rat to step up. The set of the day
looms and Rat is in perfect position. He gets in early and plays with the
beast. Bashing the 100 foot lip and does 360's. He pulls into a 100 foot
barrel and disappears for 30 seconds. The crowd gasps as Rat is lost
in wave that is going to close out the whole bay. At last possible second
Rat gets spit out of mammoth barrel and steps onto skin dog's wave
runner and they head into shore.
Rat is a few minutes late after doing an interview and his girlfriend is pissed.
She kicks his teeth in again...
"Oh well", says Rat. "At least I have another reason to come back to the
beach someday" as he spits out shards of teeth and blood...
"Stokely Pitman" <spi...@nonewsspamguy.com> wrote
> >Blue trash?
>
> Sweet! Here's a plot outline:
>
> A tweaker from Lincoln, Nebraska signs on with the travelling carnival as a
> men's room attendant. He works his way to the major metropolis of Little
Rock,
> Arkansas, where he falls in love with a balding 40 year old guy who was the
star
> of the football team back in high school. He enters the Crackpipe Masters
> compettition, and against all odds, takes the grand prize (a year's supply of
> crack).
>
> Unfortunately, all that crack induces a phase II reaction, leading to
permanent
> brain damage. He becomes a ward of the state, logs into alt.surfing and
starts
> posting about Gorkin Flips, big wave surfing, and localism.
>
> The end.
>
<Nod>
Yes, his post was not real strong. And I did not respond directly to
anything he wrote. But it was close enough to topics I've been
thinking about for years that I thought I'd chime in.
BTW, get any pics of epic north coast savagery out of this last round
of storms? I'd love to see what your neck of the woods looks like in
fullblown stormy fury. How big can it get?
Surfer Bob
Naw, it was pissing rain the whole time. Didn't feel like hiking the video
equipment in and then not using it with an extra board and such. I got
a few pics of judgement day weather on the coast. Heavy south wind
and 3x+ style waves. Putting it into my next video. I surfed some solid
2x+ around the cape, sheltered from the heavy south winds.
BTW, nice new handle.