If you were to start a new project on linux ..
Clément Doss
If you were to start a new project on linux what would you pick as your main IDE tool?
Kylix or C++BuilderX?
After I saw http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/11/04/HNkylix_1.html
I guess that C++BuilderX is he way to go.. but how about Delphi/Kylix?
Should all my Linux/Windows projects be developed in C++BuilderX?
Clément
Steve Tyrakowski
> If you were to start a new project on linux what would you pick as your main IDE tool?
> Kylix or C++BuilderX?
>
testing it with Wine. We got a fairly simple database app to run with no trouble. We
got another extremely complex app that talks to dlls from a 3rd party accounting app
that is 3-tier with Delphi runtime BPLs to load. (for some reason the menus on that app
were not working upon first try this afternoon).
All in all, it looks extremely promising to be able to use Linux boxes running Wine to
run some Delphi apps. We literally just got this working this afternoon, so testing has
been extremely limited, but very hopeful. We were considering Kylix for some special
purpose workstations on the shop floor, but we spent 3 days unsuccessfully getting it to
deploy to a user box. Now it looks like Wine is gonna be our answer to the limited
Linux application needs.
Regards,
Steve Tyrakowski
www.sct-associates.com
Dennis Landi
"Steve Tyrakowski" <st...@sct-associates.com> wrote in message >
> All in all, it looks extremely promising to be able to use Linux boxes
running Wine to
> run some Delphi apps. We literally just got this working this afternoon,
so testing has
> been extremely limited, but very hopeful. We were considering Kylix for
some special
> purpose workstations on the shop floor, but we spent 3 days unsuccessfully
getting it to
> deploy to a user box. Now it looks like Wine is gonna be our answer to
the limited
> Linux application needs.
>
I would be interested in any performance evaluations/impressions you acquire
thru this experimentation...
Alessandro Federici
news:3fa83cc2$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> I would be interested in any performance evaluations/impressions you
acquire
> thru this experimentation...
Me too, very much so.
Captain Jake
<cd...@nospam.dhs.com.br> wrote in
message <3fa8...@newsgroups.borland.com>...
Anybody who is using CLX and/or Kylix should migrate to C++BuilderX. Kylix
will NOT get any kind of update while the team is concentrating on .NET and
updates to Win32. So it would probably be 2005 by that point, if
that point ever comes at all.
At BorCon, Ray Lischner asked if Kylix was dead, a question that Borland
obviously did not enjoy having to answer. The question was an obvious hot
potatoe because Dale had Blake Stone answer it, and Blake has become quite
proficient in corporatese. Translated into the common vernacular his answer
was essentially "We are making alternatives available to existing Kylix
users. These alternatives are JBuilder and C++Builder X."
I talked to a number of TeamB members who considered it very obvious and
transparent that Kylix is dead, but Borland doesn't want to "hold the
funeral" as Ray Lischner put after Dale had carried the microphone far from
Ray, probably because they get a small income from Kylix.
--
***Free Your Mind***
Alessandro Federici
news:3fa849e4$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Anybody who is using CLX and/or Kylix should migrate to C++BuilderX. Kylix
> will NOT get any kind of update while the team is concentrating on .NET
and
> updates to Win32. So it would probably be 2005 by that point, if
> that point ever comes at all.
Since you're over there and have the possibility to ask if any work on Mono
is being done or not on the Delphi for .Net front, why don't you ask and let
us know? Maybe that would be a better way for people relying or wanting VCL
stuff.
--
Best regards,
Alessandro Federici
RemObjects Software, Inc.
http://www.remobjects.com
Brion L. Webster
> Since you're over there and have the possibility to ask if any work
> on Mono is being done or not on the Delphi for .Net front, why don't
> you ask and let us know? Maybe that would be a better way for people
> relying or wanting VCL stuff.
That seems to be the case. In the one session Danny gave that I made
(all Borland folks were pulled back today), he had a slide saying .NET
is the way to make portable code. He did NOT say that he was talking
Linux here, he segued into Itanium, AMD64, etc, but when he said
"anywhere there is a .NET virtual machine", it was in that classic,
dry, Danny way that *I* certainly understood it to mean Mono/Linux.
-Brion
Pete Gajria
i do like the qt toolkit & its widely supported on a lot of different
platforms
"Clément Doss" <cd...@nospam.dhs.com.br> wrote in message
news:3fa8...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Jason
C++, save yourself many sorrows.....
BoBo
supported as a development language in the near term (maybe ever)
on Linux (xplatform) by Borland other than the currently
released Kylix versions.
Erwien Saputra
>
> At BorCon, Ray Lischner asked if Kylix was dead, a question that
> Borland obviously did not enjoy having to answer. The question was an
> obvious hot potatoe because Dale had Blake Stone answer it, and Blake
> has become quite proficient in corporatese. Translated into the
> common vernacular his answer was essentially "We are making
> alternatives available to existing Kylix users. These alternatives
> are JBuilder and C++Builder X."
Ah, so that was Ray's question that I was wondering about.
When talking about Kylix, somebody post in this NG that Borland is
thinking Kylix as long term investment. The strategy has changed, I
guess.
Wien.
Alessandro Federici
news:3fa86cb6$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> So you guys do not see that Object Pascal (Delphi) will be
> supported as a development language in the near term (maybe ever)
> on Linux (xplatform) by Borland other than the currently
> released Kylix versions.
No. The opposite actually. I think it would make perfectly sense from
Borland's standpoint to concentrate on Delphi for .Net and *ensure*
(supporting that) it runs on the different .Net implementations for
non-Windows platforms.
*Should* be a much simpler task than Kylix.
Ender
CD> your main IDE tool? Kylix or C++BuilderX?
g++ & Qt. Kylix actually is dead, no matter what they say. Think C++BuilderX
is better? Come on, maybe after second release or major update... it it
happens.
johnnie
I have made a similar desition when Windows came to life.
Do I use delphi or a C/C++ environment for my projects?
Well the only think I can say today is that If I had choose
C/C++ then I would have been in a better position today.
So I have to recomend go with the industry standarts take
a good look on C/c++ and it's tools. Make absolutly sure
that you evaluate all your choises before deciding and
do not confine your self to Borland products only.
So to summurise C/C++ is the way to go and Borland is not
the only way.
regards
johnnie.
Luigi D. Sandon
As long as .NET could be run on non Windows machines... although MS
submitted part of it to some "standard organization" to boost its initial
acceptance, I won't bet on it for cross-platform development in the long
term. I'd use Java instead.
--
Luigi D. Sandon
BoBo
and other huge overhead systems. Need additional installation,
etc. on the client side. Not to mention that Mono is not
even supported yet by Borland (especially Object Pascal /Delphi/
not even mentioned here).
What about native compilers to do some decent
server side stuff (Apache 2 DSO modules, Client-server,
C/S database applications, MySQL 4.x and DB transactions
without memory leeks)?
Only C++?
Roberto Scardovi
> use the qt toolkit and/or the kde api
> i do like the qt toolkit & its widely supported on a lot of different
> platforms
>
What about db-access drivers available for kde api?
Data-aware controls class libraries?
Is there any repository we can refer to?
Thanx, Roberto
news.microsoft.com
> If you were to start a new project on linux what would you pick as your
main IDE tool?
> Kylix or C++BuilderX?
>
we decided to kill all of our Delphi Apps and deveopment and replace them
with a combination of
Omnis-Development (Windows, Linux, Mac, Solaris) and some Pyhton/QT.
cheers
Henning
Clément Doss
I'm worried because I have invested a lot of time and money on "Delphi Solution"
(Delphi for Windows/ Kylix for Linux). At least for me restarting development in C++
would be major change and investment. I'm not quite sure I'll be able to keep Delphi
and C++ together as primary IDE. And as C++ offers more business / flexibles
alternatives...
I was under the impression that Delphi user base was bigger that C++ Builder one.
I thought Borland would be more patient with Kylix, as long as money allows it,
since it represent a very attractive solution for Delphi developers.
I find more Delphi components in the market that C++ ones and most C++ programmers I
worked with are using MS compiler. That's was leaded me to that wrong assumption.
In my country (Brazil), almost all the universities are using a version of linux.
There are more and more companies that can't afford Windows, and are looking for
alternatives. This is _very_ important because MS products don't appear as "the only
way to go" anymore.
Some are switching from MS Windows based solution to a Linux based solution.
Some are willing to start up using linux based solution and a few workstations with
"some version of windows just to run MS Office".
Just last week I had 3 development estimates where the customers asked for a Linux
solution for Client workstation.
I just believe that let kylix go would be like breaking one leg of a chair.
Clément
Craig van Nieuwkerk
pretty serious assumptions. From what I have read the kylix situation is
pretty plain.
Borland originally developed Kylix due to the such high demand and interest
in the linux world. Over the last few years though interest and hype in
linux has settled down to more normal levels. Because of this Kylix is not
selling as well as it was expected, so Borland have put it on the back
burner while the linux market develops. They are definitely not dumping it
but waiting until the market is such to ramp up the resources spent on it.
After all, why throw money at a project that doesn't earn it's keep.
Remember JBuilder was the poor brother to Delphi up until about version 5
when the Java market took off. If linux continues to grow maybe Kylix will
then be updated, if not then it will probably be killed, but this is about 2
years away. I think another problem is that Kylix biggest strength over
tools is in GUI applications, but the linux market for client side
applications is very small.
In short, Borland is playing the waiting game. If the linux market takes
off, so will kylix.
Craig
johnnie
> takes off, so will kylix.
>
Mabe you are right mabe you are not. In any case one way or an other
Borland is loosing a game which can easely win with the minimum of
resources now.
If it has put the development in backburner (as you seem to imply),
then
there is a product with a lot of problems out there which creates a
negative history for its name which can be prevented if one person
spends 2 days per week to solve the problems and create beta updates
for anyone is interested to use.
Jeff Overcash (TeamB)
Delphi for Win32 which does not do Linux apps. Only Kylix (native linux apps)
and .NET (with Mono) are cross platform versions of Delphi.
--
Jeff Overcash (TeamB)
(Please do not email me directly unless asked. Thank You)
If there is somebody up there could they throw me down a line. Just a
little helping hand just a little understanding. Just some answers to the
questions that surround me now. If there's somebody up there could
they throw me down a line. (Fish)
Steve Tyrakowski
> Please take this thread to the Kylix or .net non tech groups. This group is for
> Delphi for Win32 which does not do Linux apps. Only Kylix (native linux apps)
> and .NET (with Mono) are cross platform versions of Delphi.
>
Win32 apps under Wine?
Regards,
Steve Tyrakowski
www.sct-associates.com
Jeff Overcash (TeamB)
Steve Tyrakowski wrote:
>
> In article <3FA90A17...@mindspring.com>, Jeff Overcash (TeamB) wrote:
> > Please take this thread to the Kylix or .net non tech groups. This group is for
> > Delphi for Win32 which does not do Linux apps. Only Kylix (native linux apps)
> > and .NET (with Mono) are cross platform versions of Delphi.
> >
> Which group will be appropriate if we continue the discussion of running Delphi
> Win32 apps under Wine?
>
Here, since the only product that builds Win32 apps is Delphi for Win32. If the
topic switches to the pros and cons of WINE itself that needs to go over to the
Kylix group.
> Regards,
>
> Steve Tyrakowski
> www.sct-associates.com
Andreas Prucha
> Hi,
>
> If you were to start a new project on linux what would you pick as
> your main IDE tool? Kylix or C++BuilderX?
At the moment I would still use Kylix/Delphi, but with some stomach ache.
I really hope that Borland wakes up and maintains Kylix/Delphi.
jordan smith
cls fixes).
Borland does not have to invest much to issue small kits of bug fixes. What
the community is looking for is a heartbeat, and it just ain't there.
The message from Borland's actions are that Kylix is dead, and this
guaruntees that we won't use it, which guaruntees that it will be dead,
whatever Borland's inner intention.
Alessandro Federici
news:3fa8...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> If you were to start a new project on linux what would you pick as your
main IDE tool?
> Kylix or C++BuilderX?
None of the two.
Kylix seems dead, BuilderX is C++ and has no RAD designers apparently.
I'd wait to see what will happen with Delphi 8 and Mono support.
Craig Stuntz [TeamB]
"Alessandro Federici" <nom...@spam.forme> wrote:
>"Clément Doss" <cd...@nospam.dhs.com.br> wrote in message
>news:3fa8...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
Not yet. They're coming.
Followups should be to the C++ groups, but the web news
client won't let me set them.
-Craig
Alessandro Federici
news:3fa968f3$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> > BuilderX [...] has no RAD designers apparently.
> Not yet.
That is why I used the simple present <G>
Michael Caracena
> Please take this thread to the Kylix or .net non tech groups. This group is for
> Delphi for Win32 which does not do Linux apps. Only Kylix (native linux apps)
> and .NET (with Mono) are cross platform versions of Delphi.
>
Jeff, it is you who seems to be out of order.
This is not a group for Win32 Delphi - the very name Win32 implies it's a technical newsgroup;
This is not a technical newsgroup dedicated to Microsoft Windows Programming (TM).
This is newsgroup to general discuss issues related to Delphi.
The original poster wrote:
"
I thought Borland would be more patient with Kylix,
as long as money allows it, since it represent a very attractive solution for Delphi developers. "
( See this exact thread above. )
The context was that Kylix is attractive for Delphi programmers.
Indeed Kylix is very attractive for Delphi developers since,
as Borland states on it's website at http://www.borland.com/kylix/,
"Borland® Kylix provides both ANSI/ISO C++ and Delphi language programming
two powerful object-oriented languages in one development solution."
Michael.
Marc Collin
Lauchlan M
assessment seems absolutely on the mark.
But one might add on their behalf to that there are additional technical
difficulties with supporting Linux because the Linux distributions keep
changing. They can get it working on Linux (or a Linux distribution) and
someone might download a Linux hot-fix overnight and break a Kylix app. This
is different to Windows, which tends to upgrade the OS in discrete steps
every few years. So their JBuilder guy at the meeting recommended that if
you're into Linux now, the best way to go for Linux apps is either the
C++BuilderX, or JBuilder. Not Kylix. C++BuilderX is out for me because I
really don't like C++, and I'd prefer to stick with Object Pascal than Java.
He was very skeptical on technical grounds about .nET + Mono ever providing
a good path for Delphi applications to .NET.
My reservation with Kylix is that I don't know that if I produce a Kylix app
it will work on a given distribution or set of distributions, and will stay
working on it.
But like you say, Kylix is not written off, just slumbering for a while. It
will be interesting to see what happens in a couple of years as Linux
becomes bigger.
Lauchlan M
BoBo
Where are the official bug fixes and updates for the
QC posted bugs?
Do you think people can wait another 1-1.5 years for
a non confirmed update while they have memory leaks
and crashes in their server applications due to the
bugs in the different proprietary parts?
I don't think so.
BoBo
I can write Apache dso modules, multi-tier Client/Server
and database applications with it?
I would love that...
Tony Caduto
not be needed anymore.
Mono would be the better solution as we would not have to worry about
deploying a old version of QT.
It would be up to the end user and or the Linux distributor to ensure that
Mono is installed.
In Gentoo Linux all you have to do is "emerge mono" and you have it
installed.
Tony Caduto
> Interbase and
> testing it with Wine.
My IM app (www.amsoftwaredesign.com) works perfectly on Linux with the
latest version of wine.
I also successfully ran Delphi 6 Enterprise on Wine, and the only problem I
had was the debugger didn't work all the time, but you could easily compile
working projects without problem.
Buch
>... BuilderX is C++ and has no RAD designers apparently.
That may be chance for your company, to develop and sell RAD designer. :)
Alessandro Federici
news:3fab...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
> >... BuilderX is C++ and has no RAD designers apparently.
> That may be chance for your company, to develop and sell RAD designer. :)
Interesting idea but we don't do client stuff ;-)
Colonel Tony
I have had a server app (web broker) running on Kylix since 1.0 and it never
crashes, never...
It runs for months and months, and the only time I have ever had to reboot
is for system updates. (Running on Gentoo Linux now)
BoBo
Please check the bug reports in QC and then tell me if in
your opinion everything is OK with Kylix (Also, you can
check the bug reports posted for dbExpress in Delphi
because they use the same code base in Delphi and Kylix).
Alessandro Federici
news:3fad500c$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Then you are lucky. :)
FYI (and not trying to dispute your words or QC bugs :-) ): I never really
tried apps compiled with Kylix to the extent Tony mentioned, but I have at
least one report of a customer of mine which claims the same.
Roberto Scardovi
> hmm...
> I have had a server app (web broker) running on Kylix since 1.0 and it never
> crashes, never...
> It runs for months and months, and the only time I have ever had to reboot
> is for system updates. (Running on Gentoo Linux now)
>
Also , we plan to continue using Kylix 3 to develop
web-broker applications even if it will never be
upgraded by borland.
Web-broker applications drive you to linux/apache
with delphi skill.
That stuff works on any distribution (we tested Debian woody,
Debian unstable, slackware and mandrake)
Roberto