Boston Market cornbread temperatures
Chris Kelly
Market's cornbread temperature by location:
Location # of samples temperature
-----------------------------|-------------|-----------------------
Pasadena, CA | 1 | room temp.
Santa Clara, CA | 2 | cool [1]
Nashua, NH | 1 | warm
Conclusion: cornbread temperatures are warm (normal) in New England,
cool (not normal) on the west coast. [2] What could be the cause?
Could it be a cultural difference between the cooks who work at these
locations? Probably not. For a reason why not, consider El Pollo Loco
("EPL"). It has the same formula as the lowest-priced Boston Market
("BM") offering: two pieces of chicken, two sides, and a bread-type
item [3]. However, EPL's corn or flour tortillas are always warm; in
fact, they are only given to the customer straight from a warming
tray. Are the west coast BM cooks unable to draw the inference from
their EPL opposite numbers that the bread-type side should be served
warm? I think not.
In fact, I fear the root cause goes much higher, to the regional
manager level if not above. Surely, those regional managers must be
aware of this situation. Fast food restaurants are one of the most
homogenized of industries; in fact, BM's owner, the McDonald's
Corporation, even runs a Hamburger University.
Those regional managers must know how to serve the cornbread. They
must know that cool or cold cornbread is a bad thing. Most
importantly, and most damningly, they must know that the cornbread at
their stores is not being served correctly.
Do these regional managers look the other way when they see cornbread
being served incorrectly? Do they honestly believe that no one will
notice, and that only a few customers will complain and seek to be
served warm cornbread?
And, does this cornbread issue go even higher up the corporate ladder?
Surely BM managers above the regional manager level must be aware of
this situation, yet they silently look the other way.
What could be reason for this? I can imagine a BM representative
trying to make an excuse to the effect that west coast consumers might
actually prefer cool cornbread, or some such dinkum. That same slick
corporate shill might utter something about disincentivizing
application of butter to the cornbread as a means of healthier eating.
Close, but I fear there is a more cynical explanation. Could it,
perhaps, be an attempt to save money on the freely supplied butter
patties? After all, what better way to save a few cents on butter than
to supply the customer with cornbread unable to properly receive such
butter? I believe, as they say in New England, I have hit the nail on
the head.
Please note: I have also emailed this to feed...@bost.com. I, and all
other consumers, await their response.
Footnotes:
[1] Our Silicon Valley correspondent, Apu Petilon, is invited to
verify this for himself. It's on El Camino Real.
[2] This is, of course, an assumption based on a limited number of
samples. However, the author believes that a wider sampling will show
this to be a correct assumption.
[3] EPL's two pieces of chicken/two sides/bread-type item is only
$3.99 at many locations, versus the hefty $4.99 price tag at all
sampled BM locations. Even worse, the BM offering is only for dark
meat, while EPL will gladly provide you with white meat on request.
Now, granted, the BM sides are of a generally high quality. The sides
are better than those provided by EPL, KFC, and other chains. But, the
BM portions are smaller than those corresponding sides. The author is
not the first to notice this; q.v.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=5gkgs0%2463a%40camel4.mindspring.com
Also instructive is the example provided by the Pasadena Church's
Fried Chicken. On the same street as the Pasadena BM, and just 1.5
miles away, it manages to serve three (3) pieces of fried chicken for
under half the amount paid at BM for just two small pieces of chicken.
Of course, that doesn't include the sides, but it does include a
*warm* biscuit. Perhaps BM's managers could go to Sunday school at
Church's.
-------------------
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st...@temple.edu
> Please observe (and add to if possible) the following chart of Boston
> Market's cornbread temperature by location:
What drugs are you on?
Mary Malmros
Chris Kelly <ab...@tolstoy.com> wrote:
>Please observe (and add to if possible) the following chart of Boston
>Market's cornbread temperature by location:
I didn't know Don Saklad had a twin.
--
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros Very Small Being mal...@shore.net
"I would not exchange the sorrows of my heart
for the joys of the multitude"
Stan Brown
Chris Kelly <ab...@tolstoy.com> wrote in misc.consumers:
>Location # of samples temperature
>-----------------------------|-------------|-----------------------
>Pasadena, CA | 1 | room temp.
>Santa Clara, CA | 2 | cool [1]
>Nashua, NH | 1 | warm
>
>Conclusion: cornbread temperatures are warm (normal) in New England,
>cool (not normal) on the west coast. [2] What could be the cause?
This sample is way to small to have any statistical significance.
(Of course, even if it were statistically significant we might
question its practical significance.)
Everyone needs a hobby, I suppose, but why don't you just ask them
to nuke your cornbread if you like it warmer?
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
"What in heaven's name brought you to Casablanca?"
"My health. I came to Casablanca for the waters."
"The waters? What waters? We're in the desert."
"I was misinformed."
Jason Kratz
this.
"Chris Kelly" <ab...@tolstoy.com> wrote in message
news:3d6da1bb...@news.concentric.net...
asj
there's probably a boston market around here (NJ). i'm almost curious
enough to see whether the observation below holds.
Chad Myers
-c
"Jason Kratz" <e...@joes.com> wrote in message
news:aklekt$juo$1...@flood.xnet.com...
Rose Skubiszewski
>ab...@tolstoy.com (Chris Kelly) wrote in
>news:3d6da1bb...@news.concentric.net:
>> Please observe (and add to if possible) the following chart
>> of Boston Market's cornbread temperature by location:
Gak! Who would eat Boston Market "cornbread" and
think that's "The Real Thing"?
>I told you all that xstacy laced cornbread would warp your mind.
I have been experimenting with a recipe, adapting it
for a cast-iron pan and for buhr stone ground cornmeal
(very rough texture, gritty.) I've found that
soaking the cornmeal in buttermilk while the oven
heats, softens it enough to retain a nice moist texture.
I usually serve cornbread warm or at room temperature, but I've
also grabbed a leftover piece from the frig for brekkie
and found it still tasty and moist.
Rose
Chris Kelly
>Chris Kelly wrote:
>>
>> Please observe (and add to if possible) the following chart of Boston
>> Market's cornbread temperature by location:
>>
>> Location # of samples temperature
>> -----------------------------|-------------|-----------------------
>> Pasadena, CA | 1 | room temp.
>> Santa Clara, CA | 2 | cool [1]
>> Nashua, NH | 1 | warm
>
>
>there's probably a boston market around here (NJ). i'm almost curious
It's probably because their west coast stores use Microsoft products,
whereas the more enlightened New England stores use 100% Pure Java
thin clients running on Sunrays with a $1million sun server backend.
They've completely eliminated their dependence on MS, and it shows in
the quality of the cornbread.
BTW, I hope to be in New England in a week or so in an attempt to
scale a few state highpoints. If I have an urge to spend more money
than necessary, I'll attempt to add to my own table and report back
ASAP.
Chris Kelly
wrote:
>Everyone needs a hobby, I suppose, but why don't you just ask them
>to nuke your cornbread if you like it warmer?
After paying $5.40 for two small pieces of chicken, two small sides,
and a bite-size piece of cornbread, the last thing I want to have to
do is wait around while they put the cornbread in the oven like they
should have done in the first place. So, in response, yes, I have
asked them to warm it up. The point is that I should not have to ask
them to do such a simple thing. Since you are near New England, please
add to my table to make this truly statistically significant. Thank
you.
Chris Kelly
skubis...@Encompasserve.org (Rose Skubiszewski) wrote:
>In article <umrfekh...@corp.supernews.com>, Ken Brassner <M...@hotmail.com> writes:
>>ab...@tolstoy.com (Chris Kelly) wrote in
>>news:3d6da1bb...@news.concentric.net:
>>
>>> Please observe (and add to if possible) the following chart
>>> of Boston Market's cornbread temperature by location:
>
>Gak! Who would eat Boston Market "cornbread" and
>think that's "The Real Thing"?
Was such a thought implied in my message?
>I have been experimenting with a recipe, adapting it
>for a cast-iron pan and for buhr stone ground cornmeal
>(very rough texture, gritty.) I've found that
>soaking the cornmeal in buttermilk while the oven
>heats, softens it enough to retain a nice moist texture.
I believe, Rose, that you might have found one of the reasons why BM
cornbread is not served as hot as it could. As you know, something
which is porous, airy, and dry does not retain heat with the same
efficiency as more compressed, solid, moist items such as your
cornbread. I would imagine that it requires fewer joules to heat your
cornbread to a proper temperature, and that it will retain its heat
far longer. Kind of the difference between toast and fruitcake. I'd
suggest selling your recipe to BM.
ZeeOhSix (Z06)
--
--
"Chris Kelly" <ab...@tolstoy.com> wrote in message
news:3d6e7ae8...@news.concentric.net...
Stan Brown
>and a bite-size piece of cornbread, the last thing I want to have to
>do is wait around while they put the cornbread in the oven like they
>should have done in the first place. So, in response, yes, I have
>asked them to warm it up. The point is that I should not have to ask
>them to do such a simple thing.
"The food was of such poor quality. And the portions were too
small."
If you dislike the food they serve, and you think you don't get your
money's worth, then you are an idiot to keep going there.
Chris Kelly
wrote:
>Chris Kelly <ab...@tolstoy.com> wrote in misc.consumers:
>>After paying $5.40 for two small pieces of chicken, two small sides,
>>and a bite-size piece of cornbread, the last thing I want to have to
>>do is wait around while they put the cornbread in the oven like they
>>should have done in the first place. So, in response, yes, I have
>>asked them to warm it up. The point is that I should not have to ask
>>them to do such a simple thing.
>
>"The food was of such poor quality. And the portions were too
>small."
>
>If you dislike the food they serve, and you think you don't get your
>money's worth, then you are an idiot to keep going there.
Stan. Let's be civil about this and not call each other names. I've
only gone to BM four or five times, which were listed in the table
(available in previous messages). The most recent visit took place
yesterday. I had visited Pasadena to go to a book store, and (believe
it or not) I had actually stopped at a BurgerKing down the street.
Suddenly, I decided that I was in the mood not for one of BK's new
HomeStyle Broilers, but for BM-style fare instead. I had never been to
the Pasadena BM before, and, somewhat pollyannaishly, I thought they
might be different. The first visit to a BM was the one in Santa
Clara, and that took place over two years ago.
So, I've spent less than $10 per year at BM. It's not like I go there
all the time. I remain a hopeful, cheerful person. I'm always willing
to give someone a second chance. If I've gone to three different BMs,
it's because for each I thought it might be different. Actually, for
one of those (Nashua, NH), I was right. So, you see, it's not all bad.
Anyway, Stan, this isn't about me. The $20 or so I've spent at BM is
but a small amount. I'm doing this for other BM consumers. If we let
them get away with this, who knows what they'll try next?
Mary Malmros
Chris Kelly <ab...@tolstoy.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:11:36 -0400, qx1...@bigfoot.com (Stan Brown)
>wrote:
>>Chris Kelly <ab...@tolstoy.com> wrote in misc.consumers:
>>>After paying $5.40 for two small pieces of chicken, two small sides,
>>>and a bite-size piece of cornbread, the last thing I want to have to
>>>do is wait around while they put the cornbread in the oven like they
>>>should have done in the first place. So, in response, yes, I have
>>>asked them to warm it up. The point is that I should not have to ask
>>>them to do such a simple thing.
>>
>>"The food was of such poor quality. And the portions were too
>>small."
>>
>>If you dislike the food they serve, and you think you don't get your
>>money's worth, then you are an idiot to keep going there.
>
>Stan. Let's be civil about this and not call each other names.
While we're being civil, maybe we could refrain from making
crossposts to newsgroups where this is really not relevant.
I'm reading this on ne.food, a newsgroup for foodie interests
in and of the New England region -- and, despite its name,
Boston Market is about as relevant here as a discussion about
KFC is in a newsgroup on southern food.
It's a chain. It's being run on a least-cost basis. Hoping
for quality from a chain "restaurant" is an exercise in
futility -- and if one continues to expect quality once this
has been pointed out, well, that IS idiocy.
MJ
Mary Malmros wrote:
Furthermore, it's owned by Mcdonalds.
Lady
the worst thing that ever happened in life to a person is that they get cold
cornbread......wow what could possibly be worse in life than that??
Lady
Chris Kelly wrote:
> I'm doing this for other BM consumers. If we let
> them get away with this, who knows what they'll try next?
>
> And who are these consumers who "asked" you to do this.....obviously not
> everyone shares your thoughts since they would have been bound to have
> received other complaints as well. Perhaps not everyone wants or likes
> their cornbread heated.....why not just ask them the next time you're in
> their store why they serve the cornbread cold -- maybe there is a
> logical explanation for it.
Lady
Chris Kelly wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:51:29 -0400, asj <ka...@xxx.com> wrote:
> >Chris Kelly wrote:
> >>
> >> Please observe (and add to if possible) the following chart of Boston
> >> Market's cornbread temperature by location:
> >>
> >> Location # of samples temperature
> >> -----------------------------|-------------|-----------------------
> >> Pasadena, CA | 1 | room temp.
> >> Santa Clara, CA | 2 | cool [1]
> >> Nashua, NH | 1 | warm
> >
> >man, sorta scary, but:
> >
> >there's probably a boston market around here (NJ). i'm almost curious
> >enough to see whether the observation holds.
>
> It's probably because their west coast stores use Microsoft products,
> whereas the more enlightened New England stores use 100% Pure Java
> thin clients running on Sunrays with a $1million sun server backend.
> They've completely eliminated their dependence on MS, and it shows in
> the quality of the cornbread.
>
I know I will regret this question....but please explain what their
Microsoft has to do with Boston Market's cornbread???????????? I'm dying to
hear this one!
Hey did anyone give thought to the fact that maybe, just maybe cold
cornbread is a cost-reducing effort --- think of how much money they are
saving by not having to heat up the oven or use a microwave for heating up
the bread!
Hell, I think I just figured out the reason for cold cornbread -- next time
you go to Boston Market - maybe the chicken will be cold - think how much
more money they can save or better yet -- just give you the raw chicken and
let you cook it yourself -- even most cost savings!!! Heck I should have
majored in Marketing!
asj
>
> I know I will regret this question....but please explain what their
> Microsoft has to do with Boston Market's cornbread???????????? I'm dying to
> hear this one!
>
note the crosspost to comp.lang.java.advocacy.
unlike the pure java apps that burn hotly with THE FORCE, microsoft and
its evil master, Darth Gates (along with Emperor Bolmer) produce
bug-ridden, virus-prone software in order to drain the life heat from
the galaxy's cornbread.
Stan Brown
>On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:11:36 -0400, qx1...@bigfoot.com (Stan Brown)
>wrote:
>>If you dislike the food they serve, and you think you don't get your
>>money's worth, then you are an idiot to keep going there.
>
>Stan. Let's be civil about this and not call each other names.
Only when the shoe fits, Sweetie.
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
"My theory was a perfectly good one. The facts were misleading."
-- /The Lady Vanishes/ (1938)
Dan Logcher
Now that's funny!!! and true..
--
Dan
"Homer, use the for.."
"The Force???"
"No, the forks!!!"
-Mark Hamell and Homer Simpson the Body Guard
asj
> > unlike the pure java apps that burn hotly with THE FORCE, microsoft and
> > its evil master, Darth Gates (along with Emperor Bolmer) produce
> > bug-ridden, virus-prone software in order to drain the life heat from
> > the galaxy's cornbread.
>
> Now that's funny!!! and true..
>
> --
> Dan
>
> "Homer, use the for.."
> "The Force???"
> "No, the forks!!!"
> -Mark Hamell and Homer Simpson the Body Guard
saw that simpsons episode...i believe it was the one where homer carried
off mark hamill to the strains of whitney houston's really saccharine
song "I will always love you".
Chris Kelly
Malmros) wrote:
>>>If you dislike the food they serve, and you think you don't get your
>>>money's worth, then you are an idiot to keep going there.
>>
>>Stan. Let's be civil about this and not call each other names.
>
>While we're being civil, maybe we could refrain from making
>crossposts to newsgroups where this is really not relevant.
>I'm reading this on ne.food, a newsgroup for foodie interests
>in and of the New England region -- and, despite its name,
>Boston Market is about as relevant here as a discussion about
>KFC is in a newsgroup on southern food.
I am deeply puzzled and offended by your remarks. Each newsgroup to
which I posted the message was chosen with extreme care.
misc.consumers: This is, after all, a consumer issue, is it not?
la.eats: One of the BMs from my sample was in Pasadena, CA. That's
part of Los Angeles.
rec.food.restaurants: BM is a restaurant, right?
comp.lang.java.advocacy: Looking at the original message, you'll see
that I mentioned my old friend, contractor for Oracle and frequent
c.l.j.a. commentator, Apu Petilon. What, I should talk behind his
back? Plus, BM's target demographic no doubt includes nerd types, such
as can be found in c.l.j.a.
However, most disturbing of all are your comments concerning ne.food.
If you'll look back at the original message, one of my samples was
from the Nashua, NH BM. That's in New England, no? Further, I made the
rather key assumption that N.E. BMs had hotter cornbread than their
west coast brethern. What could be more germane than that?
Further, in subsequent messages I briefly touched on why I happened to
be near the Pasadena BM in the first place. I said that I had gone to
a bookstore. I didn't say why.
As it happens, that bookstore is the only one in the Los Angeles area
that I was able to find that carried books by the Appalachian Mountain
Club and the Green Mountain Club. I had gone their in preparation for
my upcoming trip to N.E. As I mentioned in a previous message, I hope
to scale a few highpoints, perhaps including NH, VT, ME, and NY. I
guess it would be better if you'd been paying attention, eh Mary?
Further, do you think the name "Boston Market" was selected by
accident? Do you think the marketing nabobs at McDonald's just started
throwing darts at a U.S. map? You'd have to be nuts to think that.
No, Boston Market is supposed to evoke imagery in the consumer's mind.
A down-home kind of feel. A traditional image. Maple leaves turning
red and golden, a crisp clean smell in the air, preparatory school
girls wearing black stockings under their plaid skirts. And, most of
all, that famous feeling of New England parsimony. "Boston Market" is
supposed to stand for value: heaping servings of fresh, healthy food
served at a fair price.
What I've received has been quite the opposite: small servings at a
hefty price.
Boston Market, in my humble opinion, is an insult to the entire of New
England. It besmirches your reputation throughout the U.S. It leaves a
bad taste in the mouths of consumers from coast to coast.
Yes, Mary, I do believe that this post is right at home in ne.food.
Let's look even deeper Mary. Why would you be so offended that I would
post this important information in ne.food? Are you, perhaps, trying
to deflect the reader from a discussion of Boston Market into a much
more trivial discussion about newsgroup etiquette?
What are you trying to hide, Mary? Here, let's try a test. Tell me,
Mary, why didn't that email I just sent to
mary.m...@bostonmarket.com bounce?
Mary?
Chris Kelly
>Chris Kelly wrote:
>> It's probably because their west coast stores use Microsoft products,
>> whereas the more enlightened New England stores use 100% Pure Java
>> thin clients running on Sunrays with a $1million sun server backend.
>> They've completely eliminated their dependence on MS, and it shows in
>> the quality of the cornbread.
>
>I know I will regret this question....but please explain what their
>Microsoft has to do with Boston Market's cornbread???????????? I'm dying to
>hear this one!
Well, it's kinda circuitous. I think that if you can get Petilon's
attempts a humor at http://www.geocities.com/csharpfaq/ * then you'll
understand.
*Example: "Uh oh! The programmer intended to fire an employee, but he
has launched a missile instead!"
Chris Kelly
<eskw...@panix.com> wrote:
>In ne.food Chris Kelly <ab...@tolstoy.com> wrote:
>> If we let
>> them get away with this, who knows what they'll try next?
>
Is that supposed to be funny?
You do realize that Hamburger University *alone* has 30 full-time
professors? You do realize that McDonald's (owner of Boston Market)
has hundreds of PhDs, food researchers, agriculture experts, and the
like?
Did you think those french fries just magically appear from nowhere?
McDonald's knows more about food than anyone else. Everything they
produce is the result of hundreds of man-years of research.
In other words, they know their way around a potato. Not just that,
but they know how to distribute it as well. How do we know that they
haven't been infiltrated? How do we know that unfriendly powers
haven't "gotten to" their top scientists? How, in fact, do we know
that McDonald's isn't under the direct control of said foreign powers?
Why will they only allow USDA inspectors into their plants? What do
those people know? Have they been trained to know the difference
between secret sauce and something far more sinister? Why hasn't
McDonalds allowed in *United Nations* food inspectors, as P.M.
Chretien has demanded time and time again?
Are you still laughing, Dave?
Will Bell
>
> Anyway, Stan, this isn't about me. The $20 or so I've spent at BM is
> but a small amount. I'm doing this for other BM consumers. If we let
> them get away with this, who knows what they'll try next?
Heaven help me for feeding this troll, but ...
There is no reason to think that if the cornbread is cold one day, it
will be cold the next day. The cold cornbread is not necessarily a
function of the restaurant. Thus, your entire methodology is invalid in
the first place. And again, way too small to be statistically
significant.
Dan Logcher
I'm still laughing, cuz you're a whacko!
--
Dan
Nick Nelson
Chris Kelly:
>...Further, do you think the name "Boston Market" was selected by
>accident? Do you think the marketing nabobs at McDonald's just started
>throwing darts at a U.S. map? You'd have to be nuts to think that.
Didn't Boston Market start as Boston Chicken (in Boston) long before
McDonald's even knew they existed? I didn't know McD's owned them at
all until this series of posts, perhaps they bought them out when they
(BM) almost went bankrupt a couple years ago.
The Old Bear
>From: ab...@tolstoy.com (Chris Kelly)
>Newsgroups: misc.consumers,ne.food,la.eats,rec.food.restaurants
>Subject: Re: Boston Market cornbread temperatures
>Date: 29 Aug 2002 22:43:30 GMT
>
>On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:11:36 -0400, Stan Brown wrote:
> >
> > "The food was of such poor quality. And the portions were too
> > small."
> >
> > If you dislike the food they serve, and you think you don't
> > get your money's worth, then you are an idiot to keep going there.
>
> Stan. Let's be civil about this and not call each other names. I've
> only gone to BM four or five times, which were listed in the table
> (available in previous messages). The most recent visit took place
> yesterday. I had visited Pasadena [ . . . ] I had never been to
> the Pasadena BM before, and, somewhat pollyannaishly, I thought they
> might be different. The first visit to a BM was the one in Santa
> Clara, and that took place over two years ago.
>
> So, I've spent less than $10 per year at BM. It's not like I go there
> all the time. I remain a hopeful, cheerful person. I'm always willing
> to give someone a second chance. If I've gone to three different BMs,
> it's because for each I thought it might be different. Actually, for
> one of those (Nashua, NH), I was right. So, you see, it's not all bad.
>
> Anyway, Stan, this isn't about me. The $20 or so I've spent at BM is
> but a small amount. I'm doing this for other BM consumers. If we let
> them get away with this, who knows what they'll try next?
According to the Boston Market corporate web site, Boston Market
Corporation is a wholly owned subsidiary of McDonald's Corporation and
operates more than 650 company-owned restaurants nationwide in 28 states.
With a little effort, you could become to Boston Market what Peter Holden
is to McDonalds:
McMania:
Holden 'collects' McDonald's restaurants by the thousand
--------------------------------------------------------
He sucks a loud, deep breath through his nose and slaps his
chest. His chin slightly raised, the tall man surveys the
place and commandeers a corner booth with a splendid view of
the intersection of Routes 17 and 29.
"Yes," Peter Holden mutters approvingly of the new McDonald’s,
absorbing the dining room’s every detail. "Good, very good."
"Smell the kitchen, smell the food," sniffs Mr. Holden, who
'collects' McDonald’s the way a black, cashmere sweater collects
lint. "I want more. It’s tantalizing."
Indeed, the logistics and planning manager for Imaging Acceptance
Corp. of Warrenton, VA has visited 11,402 McDonald’s since the
early 1970s.
He limits the field to the United States, Canada, Mexico and the
Caribbean because his budget and work schedule prevent overseas
junkets. Mr. Holden figures he has logged 2 million miles on
the road. Long business trips allow him to hit dozens of
McDonald’s at a clip.
His single-day record -- established on Oct. 26, 1975, in suburban
Detroit -- stands at 45.
For Mr. Holden, his quest to visit every McDonald’s in the U.S.
(13,148) and, ultimately, the world (30,192) represents a cultural
as much as a culinary experience.
(A bona fide "visit" requires him to eat or buy something at a
restaurant.) . . .
His boss John Rome calls Mr. Holden’s "passion" for McDonald’s
"terrific." "I love people with passion. Everybody has their
passion. Some people collect butterflies. This is Peter’s."
In the last 30 years or so, Mr. Holden has accumulated hundreds
of stories and wracked up dozens of personal records on the
McDonald’s trails.
To date, he figures he’s plowed about $179,000 in sales revenue
into the McDonalds corporation. . . .
You can read the full story about Mr. Holden's quest at:
http://www.citizenet.com/news/articles/072502/people1.shtml
With four Boston Market locations already crossed off your list, you
have only another 646 to go.
I wish you well.
Cheers,
The Old Bear
Mary Malmros
Chris Kelly <ab...@tolstoy.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 23:47:34 +0000 (UTC), David Westebbe
><eskw...@panix.com> wrote:
>>In ne.food Chris Kelly <ab...@tolstoy.com> wrote:
>>> If we let
>>> them get away with this, who knows what they'll try next?
>>
>>Weapons of mass destruction?
>
>Is that supposed to be funny?
Well, _I_ laughed.
>You do realize that Hamburger University *alone* has 30 full-time
>professors? You do realize that McDonald's (owner of Boston Market)
>has hundreds of PhDs, food researchers, agriculture experts, and the
>like?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I read "Fast Food Nation" too. Great book,
but it has nothing to do with ne.food. Please restrict future
posts on this subject to alt.nut.with.a.grudge.
Mary Malmros
Chris Kelly <ab...@tolstoy.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 23:55:40 GMT, mal...@nautilus.shore.net (Mary
>Malmros) wrote:
>>>>If you dislike the food they serve, and you think you don't get your
>>>>money's worth, then you are an idiot to keep going there.
>>>
>>>Stan. Let's be civil about this and not call each other names.
>>
>>While we're being civil, maybe we could refrain from making
>>crossposts to newsgroups where this is really not relevant.
>>I'm reading this on ne.food, a newsgroup for foodie interests
>>in and of the New England region -- and, despite its name,
>>Boston Market is about as relevant here as a discussion about
>>KFC is in a newsgroup on southern food.
>
>I am deeply puzzled and offended by your remarks. Each newsgroup to
>which I posted the message was chosen with extreme care.
>
>misc.consumers: This is, after all, a consumer issue, is it not?
>la.eats: One of the BMs from my sample was in Pasadena, CA. That's
>part of Los Angeles.
>rec.food.restaurants: BM is a restaurant, right?
>comp.lang.java.advocacy: Looking at the original message, you'll see
>that I mentioned my old friend, contractor for Oracle and frequent
>c.l.j.a. commentator, Apu Petilon. What, I should talk behind his
>back? Plus, BM's target demographic no doubt includes nerd types, such
>as can be found in c.l.j.a.
So, why not sci.physics? Boston Market uses ovens, right?
And ovens obey the laws of physics, right?
>However, most disturbing of all are your comments concerning ne.food.
>If you'll look back at the original message, one of my samples was
>from the Nashua, NH BM. That's in New England, no? Further, I made the
>rather key assumption that N.E. BMs had hotter cornbread than their
>west coast brethern. What could be more germane than that?
>
>Further, in subsequent messages I briefly touched on why I happened to
>be near the Pasadena BM in the first place. I said that I had gone to
>a bookstore. I didn't say why.
>
>As it happens, that bookstore is the only one in the Los Angeles area
>that I was able to find that carried books by the Appalachian Mountain
>Club and the Green Mountain Club. I had gone their in preparation for
>my upcoming trip to N.E. As I mentioned in a previous message, I hope
>to scale a few highpoints, perhaps including NH, VT, ME, and NY. I
>guess it would be better if you'd been paying attention, eh Mary?
So, if I'm going to buy toilet paper, and I happen to stop
in a bookstore to buy a book about Azerbaijan, it makes sense
for me to post a rant about the low quality of Charmin to
soc.culture.azeri?
>Further, do you think the name "Boston Market" was selected by
>accident? Do you think the marketing nabobs at McDonald's just started
>throwing darts at a U.S. map? You'd have to be nuts to think that.
>
>No, Boston Market is supposed to evoke imagery in the consumer's mind.
>A down-home kind of feel. A traditional image. Maple leaves turning
>red and golden, a crisp clean smell in the air, preparatory school
>girls wearing black stockings under their plaid skirts. And, most of
>all, that famous feeling of New England parsimony. "Boston Market" is
>supposed to stand for value: heaping servings of fresh, healthy food
>served at a fair price.
That's a very clever analysis of modern marketing. Unfortunately,
it has nothing to do with reality and how the name of that chain
came about. Boston Market did not spring from the forehead of
the McDonald's corporation. It came to life as a single,
independently owned restaurant in (I believe) Newton, which
was called Boston Chicken. It was successful and branched out
to a few other locations in the Boston area, initially under
the same ownership. I used to get takeout from one of these
places back around 1990, and it was pretty damn good. It has
been through at least two changes of ownership since, and --
as with other chains before it -- has gone through extensive
changes in menu (the change to Boston Market came about when
they expanded their menu to include such gustatory delights
as turkey and meatloaf, all of them tasting like a low-grade
Swanson's tee vee dinner that has been in the freezer case
since 1955). I ate at one once in the post-Boston Market
stage, and wanted to throw myself under an MBTA bus. So,
nice try with the history, but next time stick to facts
instead.
>What I've received has been quite the opposite: small servings at a
>hefty price.
>
>Boston Market, in my humble opinion, is an insult to the entire of New
>England. It besmirches your reputation throughout the U.S. It leaves a
>bad taste in the mouths of consumers from coast to coast.
Those of us who still have most of our marbles are not losing
sleep over it, any more than people of Kentucky are losing
sleep over KFC or Mexican-Americans are losing sleep over
Taco Bell.
>Yes, Mary, I do believe that this post is right at home in ne.food.
>
>Let's look even deeper Mary. Why would you be so offended that I would
>post this important information in ne.food? Are you, perhaps, trying
>to deflect the reader from a discussion of Boston Market into a much
>more trivial discussion about newsgroup etiquette?
>
>What are you trying to hide, Mary? Here, let's try a test. Tell me,
>Mary, why didn't that email I just sent to
>mary.m...@bostonmarket.com bounce?
Ye gods, I've been discovered. It's all over now.
Okay, I'll come clean. I do, indeed, work for the McDonald's
Corporation. I specialize in Market Attitudinal Readjustment,
which to you laypeople means brainwashing the public so
they'll keep eating our swill. In between, I spend my time
driving around New England taking pictures of red barns,
black and white cows, and beaming grandmotherly types
holding platters of roast chicken, all for use in our ad
campaigns. I've just completed a five-year plan to get
my town to allow me to erect a cell tower on my
property, only it's not a cell tower, it's an Attitude
Readjustment Beacon. We power on next month and I
expect it'll fix _your_ sorry attitude in a jiffy. Don't
bother with the foil hat, it won't work.
David S Chesler
> Boston Market did not spring from the forehead of
> the McDonald's corporation. It came to life as a single,
> independently owned restaurant in (I believe) Newton, which
> was called Boston Chicken. It was successful and branched out
> to a few other locations in the Boston area, initially under
> the same ownership. I used to get takeout from one of these
> places back around 1990, and it was pretty damn good.
At what temperature did they serve their cornbread then?
--
- David Chesler <che...@post.harvard.edu>
Who does have a chart listing the temperatures he's observed
coffee served at from various places, but only to support the
notion that the 190 degree coffee in the New Mexico McDonald's
from the famous lawsuit _was_ unusually hot.
Mary Malmros
David S Chesler <che...@post.harvard.edu> wrote:
>mal...@nautilus.shore.net (Mary Malmros) wrote in message
>news:<G3Lb9.4329$Ir5.53...@news.pvt.primus.ca>...
>> Boston Market did not spring from the forehead of
>> the McDonald's corporation. It came to life as a single,
>> independently owned restaurant in (I believe) Newton, which
>> was called Boston Chicken. It was successful and branched out
>> to a few other locations in the Boston area, initially under
>> the same ownership. I used to get takeout from one of these
>> places back around 1990, and it was pretty damn good.
>
> At what temperature did they serve their cornbread then?
As best I can recall, it was always at 55 degrees C +/- 2.
Honest and for true. No, really.
David Chesler
> No, Boston Market is supposed to evoke imagery in the consumer's mind.
> A down-home kind of feel. A traditional image. Maple leaves turning
> red and golden, a crisp clean smell in the air, preparatory school
> girls wearing black stockings under their plaid skirts. And, most of
> all, that famous feeling of New England parsimony. "Boston Market" is
> supposed to stand for value: heaping servings of fresh, healthy food
> served at a fair price.
Is the name "Boston" supposed to suggest that too? Because I've been
living here twenty years, and I WANT MY MONEY BACK!
(I never particularly care what temperature my cornbread is at, as long
as if it's crumbly it's warm enough to soften butter. Durgin Park's got
better cornbread, but I do like BM's [marketing geniuses my crisp warm
bowel movement!] creamed spinach and candied sweet potatoes.)
--
- David Chesler <che...@post.harvard.edu>
Every elementary school has to have a firing range --S1M0NE
Bill Rubin
It is most likely a function of how busy the restaurant is. Busy
restaurant = fresher, warmer cornbread. Unbusy restaurant =
cornbread that stays around longer, with a better chance of not
being warm. Now, at all of the BM's I have been to, the
cornbread is kept in the warm side dish display, which one would
expect has some sort of warming mechanism, so in theory it
should be warm.
Bill
Tim Phelps
Chris Kelly <ab...@tolstoy.com> wrote in message
news:3d6da1bb...@news.concentric.net...
> Please observe (and add to if possible) the following chart of Boston
> Market's cornbread temperature by location:
>
> Location # of samples temperature
> -----------------------------|-------------|-----------------------
> Pasadena, CA | 1 | room temp.
> Santa Clara, CA | 2 | cool [1]
> Nashua, NH | 1 | warm
>
> cool (not normal) on the west coast. [2] What could be the cause?
>
Porbably because it's warmer on the west coast than it is on the east so the
corn bread has to be warmer to be enjoyed as much as the bread on the west
coast.
MJ
Bill Rubin wrote:
IMO, sweetness (or lack there of) is more important than temperature. Too
many places add way too much sugar so that it's more of a cake (or essentially
a corn muffin) than a bread. True cornbread has just a touch of sugar.
D. Gerasimatos
>
>IMO, sweetness (or lack there of) is more important than temperature. Too
>many places add way too much sugar so that it's more of a cake (or essentially
>a corn muffin) than a bread. True cornbread has just a touch of sugar.
I was going to mention this. Boston Market "cornbread" is Yankee
cornbread, anyway, so who cares? It's more cake than bread, like you said
and not worthy of eating no matter the temperature.
Dimitri
Dick Margulis
D. Gerasimatos wrote:
>
> I was going to mention this. Boston Market "cornbread" is Yankee
> cornbread, anyway, so who cares? It's more cake than bread, like you said
> and not worthy of eating no matter the temperature.
>
I typically save it for dessert, as it is way too sweet to eat as a side
with the chicken, and it saves me from the temptation of getting a
higher-calorie dessert.
However, here is a tip for the BM-cornbread-averse crowd. You can ask
them to substitute half of a wheat roll for the cornbread. (If you get a
whole roll they charge you for it.) This is a standard accommodation
they make for folks who can't eat corn for one reason or another. The
roll isn't great, but at least it is an actual bread and not a cake.
Chris Kelly
<dlogcher*xspam*@attbi.com> wrote:
>Chris Kelly wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 23:47:34 +0000 (UTC), David Westebbe
>> <eskw...@panix.com> wrote:
>> >In ne.food Chris Kelly <ab...@tolstoy.com> wrote:
>> >> If we let
>> >> them get away with this, who knows what they'll try next?
>> >
>> >Weapons of mass destruction?
>>
>> Is that supposed to be funny?
>>
>> You do realize that Hamburger University *alone* has 30 full-time
>> professors? You do realize that McDonald's (owner of Boston Market)
>> has hundreds of PhDs, food researchers, agriculture experts, and the
>> like?
>
>I'm still laughing, cuz you're a whacko!
Please, there's no "h" in wacko:
http://www.lonewacko.com/cornbread.html
-----
http://www.lonewacko.com
The Lone Wacko Wilderness Guide
Chris Kelly
wrote:
That may have been somewhat of a factor. It was near freezing when the
Nashua sample was taken and 26F the next morning. However, I don't
think it's that great a factor vis-a-vis the west coast samples. Just
because it's 50-75 degrees outside doesn't mean people want to be
served cold chicken or sides, and likewise with the cornbread.
Dan Logcher
That's right, but I was trying to give the impression that
you were whackin it.
--
Dan
Bob Ward
>-:On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 05:50:38 GMT, Dan Logcher
>-:<dlogcher*xspam*@attbi.com> wrote:
>-:>Chris Kelly wrote:
>-:>> On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 23:47:34 +0000 (UTC), David Westebbe
>-:>> <eskw...@panix.com> wrote:
>-:>> >In ne.food Chris Kelly <ab...@tolstoy.com> wrote:
>-:>> >> If we let
>-:>> >> them get away with this, who knows what they'll try next?
>-:>> >
>-:>> >Weapons of mass destruction?
>-:>>
>-:>> Is that supposed to be funny?
>-:>>
>-:>> You do realize that Hamburger University *alone* has 30 full-time
>-:>> professors? You do realize that McDonald's (owner of Boston Market)
>-:>> has hundreds of PhDs, food researchers, agriculture experts, and the
>-:>> like?
>-:>> Are you still laughing, Dave?
>-:>
>-:>I'm still laughing, cuz you're a whacko!
>-:
>-:Please, there's no "h" in wacko:
There's no "k" in Waco...
--
This space left intentionally blank.
charles hobbs
>In ne.food Chris Kelly <ab...@tolstoy.com> wrote:
>
>
>>If we let
>>them get away with this, who knows what they'll try next?
>>
>>
>
>Weapons of mass destruction?
>
Oh, so you've tried their beans too? :-)
>
>
Metalwerx
at Hamburger University.
Did you know that the "think tank" of McDonalds is shaped like a big
burger. Maybe the think tank at Boston Market is shaped like corn bread.
Just gets you thinking.
Chris Kelly wrote:
--
___________________________________________________________
Karen Christians
M E T A L W E R X
10 Walnut St.
Woburn, MA 01801
Phone:781/937-3532
Fax: 781/937-3955
http://www.metalwerx.com/
Accredited Jewelry Instruction
Mike Tamada
> D. Gerasimatos wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I was going to mention this. Boston Market "cornbread" is Yankee
> > cornbread, anyway, so who cares? It's more cake than bread, like you said
> > and not worthy of eating no matter the temperature.
> >
>
> I typically save it for dessert, as it is way too sweet to eat as a side
> with the chicken, and it saves me from the temptation of getting a
> higher-calorie dessert.
There's a very funny short movie called "The Accountant" (it won
the Academy Award for Best Short of 2001) about the battle over
Southern culture. One of the characters is constantly railling
about how the Southern Way of Life is under attack, especially by
Boston Market, and another character finally asks him
"What's so bad about Boston Market?" He replies something like
this: "Do you want your sons to grow up in a country where the
cornbread's sweet and the iced tea ain't?"
--MKT
Kenneth Crudup
che...@post.harvard.edu (David S Chesler) says:
...
mal...@nautilus.shore.net (Mary Malmros) wrote in message
news:<G3Lb9.4329$Ir5.53...@news.pvt.primus.ca>...
...
Hey, you two- small world!
-Kenny, reading this in la.eats
--
Kenneth R. Crudup Sr. SW Engineer, Scott County Consulting, Los Angeles, CA
Home: 4105 E. Willow St. #246, Long Beach, CA 90815-1740
Work: 2052 Alton Parkway, Irvine, CA 92606-4905 (949) 252-1111 X240
Mary Malmros
Kenneth Crudup <ke...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <3e64214a.0208...@posting.google.com>,
>che...@post.harvard.edu (David S Chesler) says:
>...
>
>mal...@nautilus.shore.net (Mary Malmros) wrote in message
>news:<G3Lb9.4329$Ir5.53...@news.pvt.primus.ca>...
>...
>
>Hey, you two- small world!
KENNY!!!!!
You see? You can't ever leave Boston, it just follows you
around the country!
Kenneth Crudup
In article <kkId9.3572$Pr7.44...@news.primus.ca>,
mal...@nautilus.shore.net (Mary Malmros) says:
>You can't ever leave Boston, it just follows you around the country!
Heh. Good thing the stalker laws are well-enforced in L.A., eh? :-)
-Kenny
--
Kenneth R. Crudup Sr. SW Engineer, Scott County Consulting (510) 745-0101
GlennGlenn
<old...@arctos.com> wrote:
>
> According to the Boston Market corporate web site, Boston Market
> Corporation is a wholly owned subsidiary of McDonald's Corporation and
> operates more than 650 company-owned restaurants nationwide in 28 states.
Thankfully minus one. It was not without some joy that I observed the
closing down of the Hollywood Bowel Movement at La Brea and Sunset.
There's a soon-to-fail 24-hour Internet café in its place at the
moment.
--
*GlennGlenn -- Lost & seeing double somewhere in Hollywood, CA -- aa#825*
The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no
longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident
that the end of the world is fast approaching.
‹ Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC
Chris Kelly
<dipthot...@yahoo.yahoo.com.com> wrote:
>In article <oldbear.98...@arctos.com>, The Old Bear
><old...@arctos.com> wrote:
>> According to the Boston Market corporate web site, Boston Market
>> Corporation is a wholly owned subsidiary of McDonald's Corporation and
>> operates more than 650 company-owned restaurants nationwide in 28 states.
>Thankfully minus one. It was not without some joy that I observed the
>closing down of the Hollywood Bowel Movement at La Brea and Sunset.
Why so? Was that location's cornbread temperature off too, or was it
something else?
GlennGlenn
<ab...@tolstoy.com> wrote:
Simple. Bad restaurants deserve to die. Plus, there's the sense of
schadenfreude that comes when a venture by monolith McDeath fails.
--
*GlennGlenn -- Lost & seeing double somewhere in Hollywood, CA*
Bill Rubin
GlennGlenn wrote:
>
> In article <3d7d7b10...@news.concentric.net>, Chris Kelly
> <ab...@tolstoy.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 00:44:28 GMT, GlennGlenn
> > <dipthot...@yahoo.yahoo.com.com> wrote:
> > >In article <oldbear.98...@arctos.com>, The Old Bear
> > ><old...@arctos.com> wrote:
> > >> According to the Boston Market corporate web site, Boston Market
> > >> Corporation is a wholly owned subsidiary of McDonald's Corporation and
> > >> operates more than 650 company-owned restaurants nationwide in 28 states.
> > >Thankfully minus one. It was not without some joy that I observed the
> > >closing down of the Hollywood Bowel Movement at La Brea and Sunset.
> >
> > Why so? Was that location's cornbread temperature off too, or was it
> > something else?
>
> Simple. Bad restaurants deserve to die. Plus, there's the sense of
> schadenfreude that comes when a venture by monolith McDeath fails.
McDonalds did not start Boston Market, they rescued them out of
financial despair. Since I like the food at Boston Market (and
have better things to do than chart the temperature of their
corn bread), I'm happy that they did. When they start replacing
their BBQ chicken with Big Macs I'll be upset.
Bill
ZeeOhSix (Z06)
and we don't go to Micky D's.
--
--
"Bill Rubin" <bill...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3D7FF311...@prodigy.net...
SoCalMike
"ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <ZeeO...@lalim.net> wrote in message
news:C1Tf9.329529$On.13...@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
> My wife and I like BM, and we rarely eat the muffin anyway.....
> and we don't go to Micky D's.
who doesnt like a nice solid BM? as for "eating the muffin"? whatever floats
your boat.
ZeeOhSix (Z06)
--
--
"SoCalMike" <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dQTf9.80858$Jo.20207@rwcrnsc53...
Dan Logcher
Yeah, but what temperature is it?
--
Dan
Dain Bramage
Dan Logcher <dlogcher*xspam*@attbi.com> wrote:
>SoCalMike wrote:
>> who doesnt like a nice solid BM? as for "eating the muffin"?
>>whatever floats your boat.
>
>Yeah, but what temperature is it?
Has the topic changed to bathroom-habits? ;->
Dan Logcher
Something had to change.. this whole cornbread thread was loosing
steam anyways. Or maybe it didn't have any to begin with.
--
Dan
SoCalMike
Jerry
is a rip off and most of the sides are too salty (to preserve them better?). I
can't see how they still hang around except as a slightly better alternative to
McNuggets.
Jerry
Chris Kelly
>I find Costco's roast chicken is far cheaper and tastier than Boston Market. BM
>is a rip off and most of the sides are too salty (to preserve them better?). I
>can't see how they still hang around except as a slightly better alternative to
>McNuggets.
Let me ask the obvious question: what temperature is CostCo's
cornbread served at? If they provide biscuits instead, what is their
temperature?
Robbbbb
> On Fri, 13 Sep 2002 07:09:27 -0700, Jerry <ch...@inreach.com> wrote:
> >I find Costco's roast chicken is far cheaper and tastier than Boston
Market. BM
> >is a rip off and most of the sides are too salty (to preserve them
better?). I
> >can't see how they still hang around except as a slightly better
alternative to
> >McNuggets.
>
> Let me ask the obvious question: what temperature is CostCo's
> cornbread served at? If they provide biscuits instead, what is their
> temperature?
I'm not sure if Costco actually carries cornbread, but if they do, no doubt
it's served at about zero degrees Farenheit. Unless they happen to be
serving free samples of it on that particular day.