Hooves on the roof
Tony Cooper
before, but what of the pronunciation of hoof, hoofs,
hooves, and roof?
I do not understand the pronunciation markings (or even what
to call them), so is there a phonetic answer?
--
Tony Cooper aka: tony_co...@yahoo.com
Provider of Jots and Tittles
Richard Fontana
> I am hesitant to post this since I'm sure it's been done
> before, but what of the pronunciation of hoof, hoofs,
> hooves, and roof?
>
> I do not understand the pronunciation markings (or even what
> to call them), so is there a phonetic answer?
Te basic issue in the US is whether to use the
/U/ vowel of "book" or the /u/ vowel of "boot". In "hoof" I use /U/; in
"roof" I use /u/. Using /rUf/ for "roof" sounds sort of Midwestern or
Western.
For the plural of "hoof" I think I'd use "hooves". There I think I'd say
/huvz/, but it's not a word I say more than once every couple of decades.
Ben Webster
Richard Fontana wrote:
I'm originally from Michigan and now go to school in Massachusetts, and
everyone makes fun of the fact that I pronounce "room" as /rUm/ and "hoof" as
/hUf/ rather than /rum/ and /huf/. I pronounce "hooves" as /hUvz/ and "roof"
as /rUf/. Oddly enough, I've noticed that "rooftops" is /ruftaps/. Odd how
that works.
Ben
BV
> I am hesitant to post this since I'm sure it's been done
> before, but what of the pronunciation of hoof, hoofs,
> hooves, and roof?
>
> I do not understand the pronunciation markings (or even what
> to call them), so is there a phonetic answer?
In England, I have heard many different pronunciations of these. From
"hoooof" to "huff", depending on the background of the speaker.
Closely allied to the north Midlands "boooooook" for book, whereas I use
the shortest possible vowel for the double o.
--
BV
The email address is valid but rarely read. If you want to write to me,
try decoding this: david.dot.j.dot.rowley.att.ntlworld.dot.com
mag...@rahul.net
<bass....@ntlworld.com> created
>Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> I am hesitant to post this since I'm sure it's been done
>> before, but what of the pronunciation of hoof, hoofs,
>> hooves, and roof?
>>
>> I do not understand the pronunciation markings (or even what
>> to call them), so is there a phonetic answer?
>
>In England, I have heard many different pronunciations of these. From
>"hoooof" to "huff", depending on the background of the speaker.
I talk about quite regularly on two different topics with two
different groups of people from around the world. One topic is
Internet networking, and often the configuration of routers. The
other topic is horses, and often horse's hooves (as I used to be
a farrier). I regularly hear different pronunciations for these
words, with both in-country regional differences, and country
differences. It no longer comes as a surprise when I hear
someone talk about a rooter.
jc
R H Draney
>On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 10:08:01 +0000, in alt.usage.english, BV
><bass....@ntlworld.com> created
>
>I talk about quite regularly on two different topics with two
>different groups of people from around the world. One topic is
>Internet networking, and often the configuration of routers. The
>other topic is horses, and often horse's hooves (as I used to be
>a farrier). I regularly hear different pronunciations for these
>words, with both in-country regional differences, and country
>differences. It no longer comes as a surprise when I hear
>someone talk about a rooter.
Where does *that* happen?...even people who use /rut/ for the verb
seem to pronounce the corresponding agent /'raU tR/ or something very
similar...even that small subset that say /rUt/ do so....
There do seem to be some limits on the distribution of the various
words under consideration and their derived forms..."/huf/ and mouth"
seems about as popular as "/hUf/ and mouth", and both pronunciations
of "hoofing it" are well represented...but I don't think I've ever
heard a dancer referred to as a /'huf R/....r
LarryLard
news:3bf34b10....@news.earthlink.net...
> On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:17:03 -0800, mag...@rahul.net wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 10:08:01 +0000, in alt.usage.english, BV
> ><bass....@ntlworld.com> created
> >
> >I talk about quite regularly on two different topics with two
> >different groups of people from around the world. One topic is
> >Internet networking, and often the configuration of routers. The
> >other topic is horses, and often horse's hooves (as I used to be
> >a farrier). I regularly hear different pronunciations for these
> >words, with both in-country regional differences, and country
> >differences. It no longer comes as a surprise when I hear
> >someone talk about a rooter.
>
> Where does *that* happen?...even people who use /rut/ for the verb
> seem to pronounce the corresponding agent /'raU tR/ or something very
> similar...even that small subset that say /rUt/ do so....
Rightpondia.I have the verb as /rut/ and the agent noun as /rut@/ ( I am
non-rhotic). Like most(?) Rightpondians, I save /raUt/ for something that
happens to armies, and I have no use for /raUt@/, except to imitate a
Brummie saying 'rotor', maybe.
That said, I have noticed more than a couple of network engineers at firms
with strong US ties start to use /raUt@/ even when talking amongst
themselves.
PS: Looking at the ascii ipa page, I can't help but think that my vowel in
'root' is longer than a /U/ (for which the examples 'pull' and 'butch' are
given) but not as long as a /u/ ('ooze'). Hmm.
--
Larry Lard. Replies to group please.
Harvey V
wrote:
> news:3bf34b10....@news.earthlink.net...
>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:17:03 -0800, mag...@rahul.net wrote:
>>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 10:08:01 +0000, in alt.usage.english, BV
>>> <bass....@ntlworld.com> created
-snip-
>>>
>>> It no longer comes as a surprise when I hear someone talk about a
>>> rooter.
>>
>> Where does *that* happen?...even people who use /rut/ for the verb
>> seem to pronounce the corresponding agent /'raU tR/ or something
>> very similar...even that small subset that say /rUt/ do so....
>
> Rightpondia. I have the verb as /rut/ and the agent noun as /rut@/
> ( I am non-rhotic). Like most(?) Rightpondians, I save /raUt/ for
> something that happens to armies, and I have no use for /raUt@/,
> except to imitate a Brummie saying 'rotor', maybe.
Same here (Canadian born and raised, with long adult UK residence).
My own reaction is that the "root" pronounciation of "route" is not a
small subset, other than within the US itself.
Indeed, I've always considered "rowt" for this word as uniquely
American -- in the same class as "shown" rather than "shawn" for the
past tense of the verb "shine".
Harvey
Richard Fontana
> On 15 Nov 2001, I take it that "LarryLard" <larr...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > "R H Draney" <dado...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:3bf34b10....@news.earthlink.net...
> >> On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:17:03 -0800, mag...@rahul.net wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 10:08:01 +0000, in alt.usage.english, BV
> >>> <bass....@ntlworld.com> created
>
> -snip-
> >>>
> >>> It no longer comes as a surprise when I hear someone talk about a
> >>> rooter.
> >>
> >> Where does *that* happen?...even people who use /rut/ for the verb
> >> seem to pronounce the corresponding agent /'raU tR/ or something
> >> very similar...even that small subset that say /rUt/ do so....
> >
> > Rightpondia. I have the verb as /rut/ and the agent noun as /rut@/
> > ( I am non-rhotic). Like most(?) Rightpondians, I save /raUt/ for
> > something that happens to armies, and I have no use for /raUt@/,
> > except to imitate a Brummie saying 'rotor', maybe.
>
> Same here (Canadian born and raised, with long adult UK residence).
>
> My own reaction is that the "root" pronounciation of "route" is not a
> small subset, other than within the US itself.
I don't know if that's true anymore. To me the /raUt/ pronunciation of
"route", as when speaking of the name of a highway, sounds distinctly
regional and old-fashioned. Using /raUt/ in "paper route" sounds a bit
more normal, but even there I'd say /rut/. Perhaps the widespread
pronunciation of "router" is the preservation of an archaism.
> Indeed, I've always considered "rowt" for this word as uniquely
> American -- in the same class as "shown" rather than "shawn" for the
> past tense of the verb "shine".
I think that's your CICness showing, innit? I thought the UK past tense
of "shine" (in RP and allied accents) was like RP "shon", not RP "shawn".
R J Valentine
...
} I don't know if that's true anymore. To me the /raUt/ pronunciation of
} "route", as when speaking of the name of a highway, sounds distinctly
} regional and old-fashioned. Using /raUt/ in "paper route" sounds a bit
} more normal, but even there I'd say /rut/. Perhaps the widespread
} pronunciation of "router" is the preservation of an archaism.
I'd guess it was pretty much regional until the early sixties, by which
time in communications (one of my former lives) it was almost uniformly
/raUt/, while _Route 66_ (1960 to 1964) was skewing the road usage to
/rut/. I think I used to be entirely /rut/ as a kid, but I had relatives
who were entirely /raUt/. Now I distinguish by context. I think the tool
was always and everywhere /raU*R/ in Mainland English, wasn't it? I'd
guess they'd spit the "t" and schwa the "r" on some of the fringes.
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:r...@smart.net>
mag...@rahul.net
dado...@earthlink.net (R H Draney) created
>Where does *that* happen?...even people who use /rut/ for the verb
>seem to pronounce the corresponding agent /'raU tR/ or something very
>similar...even that small subset that say /rUt/ do so....
At a conference like NANOG or IETF.
jc
John Holmes
"Richard Fontana" <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.01111...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu...
> On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
> > I am hesitant to post this since I'm sure it's been done
> > before, but what of the pronunciation of hoof, hoofs,
> > hooves, and roof?
> >
> > I do not understand the pronunciation markings (or even what
> > to call them), so is there a phonetic answer?
>
> Te basic issue in the US is whether to use the
> /U/ vowel of "book" or the /u/ vowel of "boot". In "hoof" I use /U/;
in
> "roof" I use /u/. Using /rUf/ for "roof" sounds sort of Midwestern or
> Western.
The Australian pronunciations of those are almost universally the same
as you describe yours.
>
> For the plural of "hoof" I think I'd use "hooves". There I think I'd
say
> /huvz/, but it's not a word I say more than once every couple of
decades.
>
Same again.
There is a minor racehorse here which goes by the name of
'Hoof-hearted'. A silly name but a good test of the race-caller's
diction. In order to clearly separate the two words, there is almost a
temptation to use the /u/ vowel rather than the usual one in the first
word, but that only worsens their embarrassment.
--
Regards
John