YAMI: Shapeshifters
The Wanderer
and produced an idea that I think might be worthwhile, though perhaps
not easy enough to program to actually make it into the game.
ADoM already has mimics, which can look like an item.
It also has doppelgangers, which can look like the PC.
Why not take it a step further with "shapeshifters", which can look like
other enemies?
The way I've pictured it, it would run as follows. A shapeshifter can
assume the appearance of any creature in its repertoire; said repertoire
is either dependent on the power (i.e., most likely experience) of the
shapeshifter, or includes both a group of critters set on the shifter's
generation and all critters it's seen since. It can shift from one shape
to another at any time (possibly costing PP or "exhaustion", which
appears to be the closest equivalent a monster has), including returning
to its base form.
When the PC runs into a shapeshifter in a non-base form, the PC sees the
creature the shifter has modeled itself after. The shifter still has its
own combat stats, not those of the creature it looks like; I'm not sure
how (if at all) this would affect the monster memory's stats for the
critter in question, but the most obvious way would have great potential
to mislead the player. The shifter's illusion, however, is not perfect.
A PC who recognizes it as a shapeshifter (details in a moment), or one
who sees it in base form (provided that any later shift of shape took
place within LOS), would have the shifter itself (and accurate stats, as
normal) added to the monster memory. I'm not sure how possible it would
be to handle the correction of monster memory stats for other critters
when a shifter is discovered; that's one of the flaws in the whole idea.
The weaker (again, probably in terms of experience) the shapeshifter is,
the more likely it is to make mistakes in its form. The more of the
critter in question the PC has seen (or more likely, the number killed -
since I know that's stored, and I don't think the other is), the more
likely the PC is to catch any mistakes that get made. In practice this
would not need to be a matter of generating a mistake made
every-so-often, and checking to see if the PC caught it; it could easily
be a simple percentage chance, checked at appropriate moments, for the
illusion to be recognized as such.
I would suggest that perhaps a shifter in non-base form who's been
recognized as a shifter be identified as, say, a "goblin rockthrower
shapeshifter" or "shapeshifter goblin rockthrower". More likely the
former, now that I look at them, but the name could be misleading.
Another note: the shapeshifter's "base" form is a unique ciritter, not a
variant on another monster as the suggested names might seem to suggest.
That's about all I'd come up with; any comments, ideas, questions,
suggestions, et cetera?
--
The Wanderer
I feel I should warn you I'm slightly mad.
Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.
Juuso Heimonen
news:3A8C3A39...@crosslink.net...
: ADoM already has mimics, which can look like an item.
: It also has doppelgangers, which can look like the PC.
: Why not take it a step further with "shapeshifters", which can look
like
: other enemies?
Like Chameleons in Nethack?
--
Juuso "Praise to the RNG" Heimonen
If I'd wanted it today, I'd have asked tomorrow..
***
juuso.h...@mail.wwnet.fi
http://wwnet.fi/users/heimonen
34867436
The Wanderer
>
> "The Wanderer" <thewa...@crosslink.net> wrote in message
> news:3A8C3A39...@crosslink.net...
>
> : ADoM already has mimics, which can look like an item.
> : It also has doppelgangers, which can look like the PC.
> : Why not take it a step further with "shapeshifters", which can look
> like
> : other enemies?
>
> Like Chameleons in Nethack?
I wouldn't know; I've never played the game, or for that matter found a
copy (not certain I'd want to either - ADOM takes up enough of my time
as it is!). Howsomever, if they fit with the given description more than
vaguely, possibly yes.
Juuso Heimonen
: > : ADoM already has mimics, which can look like an item.
: > : It also has doppelgangers, which can look like the PC.
: > : Why not take it a step further with "shapeshifters", which can
look
: > like
: > : other enemies?
: >
: > Like Chameleons in Nethack?
:
: I wouldn't know; I've never played the game, or for that matter
found a
: copy
It's the best RL I've seen, after Adom
: Howsomever, if they fit with the given description more than
: vaguely, possibly yes.
They're pretty much the same, except they do assume the powers of the
new form ( it's not nice to have a Demilich in the Gnomish Mines,
trust me )
--
Juuso "Praise to the RNG" Heimonen
Here Fido! Fetch! Get the stick Fido... Stick... Stupid Dog.
Olli "Shader" Juhala
+0200 "Juuso Heimonen"
<juuso.h...@mail.wwnet.fi> walked in, shouted
"Skrääks. män" and told a story that went
something like this:
>"The Wanderer" <thewa...@crosslink.net> wrote in message
>news:3A90F427...@crosslink.net...
>
>: > : ADoM already has mimics, which can look like an item.
>: > : It also has doppelgangers, which can look like the PC.
>: > : Why not take it a step further with "shapeshifters", which can
>look
>: > like
>: > : other enemies?
>: >
>: > Like Chameleons in Nethack?
>:
>: I wouldn't know; I've never played the game, or for that matter
>found a
>: copy
>
>www.nethack.org
>
>It's the best RL I've seen, after Adom
CRAWL!!! CRAWL!!!
Now if theyd just get a stable 4.00 out i'd be
most happy....
--
Olli "Shader" Juhala
Terveisiä Music for allin pojille; MacGyver sarjan vannoutuneena
kannattajana ja itsekin "atomipommin linkkuuveitsestä, mämmistä
ja polkupyörästä" milloin tahansa tekemään pystyvänä immeisenä
kumoan täysin väitteen, että tämän kulttisarjan tunnusmelodia
olisi eksynyt "Mask of Sanity" -biisiin.
Sig by Kookie Jar 5.98d http://go.to/generalfrenetics/
Sam Blanning
Juuso Heimonen <juuso.h...@mail.wwnet.fi> wrote in message
news:96r7j4$cvn$1...@tron.sci.fi...
> "The Wanderer" <thewa...@crosslink.net> wrote in message
> news:3A90F427...@crosslink.net...
>
> : > : ADoM already has mimics, which can look like an item.
> : > : It also has doppelgangers, which can look like the PC.
> : > : Why not take it a step further with "shapeshifters", which can
> look
> : > like
> : > : other enemies?
> : >
> : > Like Chameleons in Nethack?
> :
> : I wouldn't know; I've never played the game, or for that matter
> found a
> : copy
>
> www.nethack.org
>
> It's the best RL I've seen, after Adom
>
whether you can walk diagonally, stupid classes (Tourists with cameras??),
dead ends, etc...
Kassandra Velez
<re Nethack>
>I tried it and thought it was utter rubbish. Tiny dungeons,
If you want Angband, you know where to find it.
>uncertainty over
>whether you can walk diagonally,
Sokoban? Doors? Carrying too much useless crap?
>stupid classes (Tourists with cameras??),
Un#define them and recompile. No knowledge of C necessary.
>dead ends, etc...
Get a pickaxe. They don't break.
neonewt
<t93bpve...@corp.supernews.com>:
Good rebuttals, but if you ever need to resort to violence, you know
where to find me. And what would you like? Neisword, Elysidion,
excalibur, something else entirely?
--
I can't give you the exact details, but you need to speak to _M._
_Yass_ in the _B_lack _S_hrine in 4099.
Dragoon Zer0
neonewt
Kassandra Velez
<snip my (in retrospect, unnecessary and overly nasty -- sorry!) defense
of Nethack>
>Good rebuttals, but if you ever need to resort to violence, you know
>where to find me. And what would you like? Neisword, Elysidion,
>excalibur, something else entirely?
Looks like someone's just a _bit_ overeager...(or were you poking fun at
me, in which case I'll admit that I richly deserve it and leave it at
that?)
neonewt
No poking fun. I am overeager.
Sam Blanning
Kassandra Velez <kve...@iris.nyit.edu> wrote in message
news:t93bpve...@corp.supernews.com...
> Sam Blanning said into the tin can on his end of the string:
> <re Nethack>
> >I tried it and thought it was utter rubbish. Tiny dungeons,
>
> If you want Angband, you know where to find it.
I don't particularly like tiny dungeons or huge dungeons. Both Angband and
Nethack are at the extremes.
>
> >uncertainty over
> >whether you can walk diagonally,
>
> Sokoban? Doors? Carrying too much useless crap?
Yes, doors. I'm standing in a door space, I can see a space north-west of
me, but noooooo, I'm not allowed to enter the room there.
And as for carrying useless crap, that's another thing. ADOM's mindcrafters
can carry more than Nethack's warriors without becoming burdened. Why? I
know Nethack isn't ADOM but it seems to me that a warrior should be able to
carry more than a few bits of food and a little armour and a backup weapon
before starting to grunt.
>
> >stupid classes (Tourists with cameras??),
>
> Un#define them and recompile. No knowledge of C necessary.
*slaps forehead*
Damn, you're right! All I have to do is reprogram the entire game until it's
good and it'll work fine!
[/sarcasm]
Why should I have to reprogram the game? That's why I buy/download games, so
I can play them without having to program them myself. It's like the
instructions on a box of Micro Pizza being 'Cook in microwave, yada yada
yada... oh by the way, it will taste like crap unless you replace the
toppings and cook it in the oven for an hour.'
>
> >dead ends, etc...
>
> Get a pickaxe. They don't break.
If I find one.
I am not kidding about this, when I played Nethack I thought I must have
downloaded another roguelike with the same name or something because I'd
heard such good things about it.
The Wanderer
>
> "The Wanderer" <thewa...@crosslink.net> wrote in message
> news:3A90F427...@crosslink.net...
>
> : > : ADoM already has mimics, which can look like an item.
> : > : It also has doppelgangers, which can look like the PC.
> : > : Why not take it a step further with "shapeshifters", which can
> look
> : > like
> : > : other enemies?
> : >
> : > Like Chameleons in Nethack?
> :
> : I wouldn't know; I've never played the game, or for that matter
> found a
> : copy
>
> www.nethack.org
>
> It's the best RL I've seen, after Adom
Noted, and I'll know where to look for it in future; howrever, though
I'm certain to try it eventually (me being me), the thread this sprouted
is enough to reinforce my natural tendency to put off doing things for
no particular reason. (Part of why I may not get into college this
year...never mind, that's another topic entirely.)
> : Howsomever, if they fit with the given description more than
> : vaguely, possibly yes.
>
> They're pretty much the same, except they do assume the powers of the
> new form ( it's not nice to have a Demilich in the Gnomish Mines,
> trust me )
I thought of that; it's one of two reasons I decided against doing it
that way, the other being that it's not really all that realistic and
makes the power level of the monster so unpredictable - put it in too
early and it'll murder anyone if it happens to be endgame-type powerful,
put it in too late and it'll be pointless if it doesn't happen to be
that powerful. Given ADOM's experience system for monsters, it should be
fairly easy to keep it balanced out this way.
Now that I think about it, it might not be a bad idea (despite being
notably unrealistic - wait, I think I see a way around it) to *not*
limit the available forms for a shapeshifter to take. The possibilities
for terrifying low-level players (especially those not familiar with
shapeshifters) are immense, and the possibilities for confusing *any*
player are also of considerable size - is that greater moloch a freak
generation of the DH (apologies if they're normally there, but *I've*
never seen one that high) and thus a real danger, or just a shapeshifter
in disguise? The most likely answer, of course, is "shifter"; but *there
is always the chance* that it's real, and thus the player has to decide
which way to jump. In the mid-teens or low-twenties of levels, I know
*I'd* hate to have a question like that in front of me.
Anyway, the question remains - is this idea worth anything, or not? Any
suggestions for modifications? Any questions about points unclear? Any
further development? Any derived ideas? And most important, after all of
those: should I, or should I not, RFE?
(I'm finally figuring out why so many people submit ideas that would
make the game harder or more frustrating...this despite the fact that
without cheating I apparently can't clean out the Fire Temple without
dying, if I even survive that far. Go figure.)
Juuso Heimonen
in message news:96tiaq$u27$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
: I don't particularly like tiny dungeons or huge dungeons. Both
Angband and
: Nethack are at the extremes.
I don't find the levels in NH any smaller than Adom, or do you play
Adom with 80x25?
: > >uncertainty over
: > >whether you can walk diagonally,
: >
: > Sokoban? Doors? Carrying too much useless crap?
:
: Yes, doors. I'm standing in a door space, I can see a space
north-west of
: me, but noooooo, I'm not allowed to enter the room there.
Duh, the door's in the way =)
: And as for carrying useless crap, that's another thing. ADOM's
mindcrafters
: can carry more than Nethack's warriors without becoming burdened.
Why? I
: know Nethack isn't ADOM but it seems to me that a warrior should be
able to
: carry more than a few bits of food and a little armour and a backup
weapon
: before starting to grunt.
Because NH has the absolute maximum Carrying Capasity of 1000 stones,
but the Rations don't weight 200st either
: > >stupid classes (Tourists with cameras??),
They are fun, IMHO
: > Un#define them and recompile. No knowledge of C necessary.
:
: *slaps forehead*
:
: Damn, you're right! All I have to do is reprogram the entire game
until it's
: good and it'll work fine!
All you have to do is enter 4 Characters into the config.h ( or .c )
and say 'make update'
: Why should I have to reprogram the game? That's why I buy/download
games, so
: I can play them without having to program them myself. It's like the
: instructions on a box of Micro Pizza being 'Cook in microwave, yada
yada
: yada... oh by the way, it will taste like crap unless you replace
the
: toppings and cook it in the oven for an hour.'
Some people ( like me ) want to use The Force
: > >dead ends, etc...
: >
: > Get a pickaxe. They don't break.
:
: If I find one.
Kill a Dwarf, they aren't rare in NH
: I am not kidding about this, when I played Nethack I thought I must
have
: downloaded another roguelike with the same name or something because
I'd
: heard such good things about it.
=)))
--
Juuso "Praise to the RNG" Heimonen
Thank you for the wonderful tag line
Sam Blanning
> "Sam Blanning" <enqu...@nationalcoursingclub.freeserve.co.uk> wrote
> in message news:96tiaq$u27$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> : I don't particularly like tiny dungeons or huge dungeons. Both
> Angband and
> : Nethack are at the extremes.
>
> I don't find the levels in NH any smaller than Adom, or do you play
> Adom with 80x25?
Probably not if it's unusual. Maybe I have Nethack on a small setting?
>
> : > >uncertainty over
> : > >whether you can walk diagonally,
> : >
> : > Sokoban? Doors? Carrying too much useless crap?
> :
> : Yes, doors. I'm standing in a door space, I can see a space
> north-west of
> : me, but noooooo, I'm not allowed to enter the room there.
>
> Duh, the door's in the way =)
I'm standing in the door, of course it isn't.
>
> : > Un#define them and recompile. No knowledge of C necessary.
> :
> : *slaps forehead*
> :
> : Damn, you're right! All I have to do is reprogram the entire game
> until it's
> : good and it'll work fine!
>
> All you have to do is enter 4 Characters into the config.h ( or .c )
> and say 'make update'
>
Where? See what I mean? I don't have a clue how to do that and I don't see
why I should need to in order to enjoy a game.
John Hawkins
> > : Yes, doors. I'm standing in a door space, I can see a space
> > north-west of
> > : me, but noooooo, I'm not allowed to enter the room there.
> >
> > Duh, the door's in the way =)
>
> I'm standing in the door, of course it isn't.
Two points: 1) Nethack is a lot more tongue in cheek than ADOM and has
a much more 'boardgame' like feel. You can't move diagonally through
doorways. That is just one of the 'rules.' This can be used to your
advantage, but if you really don't like it, systematically approach
all doors as targets to be closed and then kicked down. You CAN move
diagonally through holes in the wall. :) If you approach Nethack as
Angband, ADOM, Diablo, whatever..., you will be disappointed. They
are very different flavors of roguelike. Nethack is about learning
arbitrary rules and the patterns that interconnect them (they have
their own twisted rationality, I assure you.) "The dev team
thinks---OF EVERYTHING." 2) you are looking at ascii graphics, so just
because you are "standing on the door" doesn't mean it's not
obstructing part of your area in the physical dungeon.
> > All you have to do is enter 4 Characters into the config.h ( or .c )
> > and say 'make update'
> >
>
> Where? See what I mean? I don't have a clue how to do that and I don't see
> why I should need to in order to enjoy a game.
You don't. If you want to write your own classes, I refer you again
to angband. If you want classes with a ridiculous amount of depth (no
matter how dumb they seem to you while you're starving to death and
dying at the hands of small amphibious creatures by XL 2), Nethack
is giving you more than you realize. And that camera might be the
thing that gets you to the gnomish mines in one piece, grasshopper.
:)
If you expect Nethack to present itself to you all at once, go
download one of the comprehensive spoilers. Don't read it! Just use
the half an hour it will take to download that file to contemplate the
fact that this game may be more than it appears. When I first tried
ADOM, I thought it was pretty shallow compared to Nethack, but the
cool inventory system drew me in long enough to see that I was wrong.
I love both games, and I suspect that if you write Nethack off while
you adore ADOM, you do yourself a GRAVE disservice.
Cheers,
John, the erstwhile @
PS it just occurred to me why the diagonal thing bothered you. I bet
there was NOT a space right in front of the door, yes? Well, if you
were dead sure that something was right in front of you, but you
couldn't see it, you probably weren't SEARCHING hard enough. :)
Failing that, the close-kick trick and the mattock you took from that
dwarf should both serve you in good stead. Not all rooms will welcome
you with open arms. Some will even offer openly armed guards as an
alternative. :)
PPS I do appologize for extending this already vastly out-of-place
thread, but I could not resist--I'm something of a fanatic.
Jian He
On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, Sam Blanning wrote:
>
> Kassandra Velez <kve...@iris.nyit.edu> wrote in message
> news:t93bpve...@corp.supernews.com...
> > Sam Blanning said into the tin can on his end of the string:
> > <re Nethack>
> > >I tried it and thought it was utter rubbish. Tiny dungeons,
> >
> > If you want Angband, you know where to find it.
>
> I don't particularly like tiny dungeons or huge dungeons. Both Angband and
> Nethack are at the extremes.
You can try some variants of Angband with small-levels option on.
> >
> > >uncertainty over
> > >whether you can walk diagonally,
> >
> > Sokoban? Doors? Carrying too much useless crap?
>
> Yes, doors. I'm standing in a door space, I can see a space north-west of
> me, but noooooo, I'm not allowed to enter the room there.
You need to kick down that door before you can move diagonally :)
The dev team pays a lot of attention to small details like this.
> And as for carrying useless crap, that's another thing. ADOM's mindcrafters
> can carry more than Nethack's warriors without becoming burdened. Why? I
> know Nethack isn't ADOM but it seems to me that a warrior should be able to
> carry more than a few bits of food and a little armour and a backup weapon
> before starting to grunt.
>
> >
> > >stupid classes (Tourists with cameras??),
You don't have to play that class. Personally I like tourists :)
> >
> > >dead ends, etc...
> >
> > Get a pickaxe. They don't break.
>
> If I find one.
Go down the gnomish mines (a branch of the main dungeon, starts
somewhere between level 2-5) and kill some dwarves (or let your
pet kill some).
Cheers
Jian
Juuso Heimonen
in message news:96utt3$vqg$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
: > : > Un#define them and recompile. No knowledge of C necessary.
: > :
: > : *slaps forehead*
: > :
: > : Damn, you're right! All I have to do is reprogram the entire
game
: > until it's
: > : good and it'll work fine!
: >
: > All you have to do is enter 4 Characters into the config.h ( or
.c )
: > and say 'make update'
:
: Where? See what I mean? I don't have a clue how to do that and I
don't see
: why I should need to in order to enjoy a game.
Of course, you could always just *not play* Tourists =)
--
Juuso "Praise to the RNG" Heimonen
Too many errors on one line (make fewer)
-- Apple's MPW C compiler Error Message
Sam Blanning
Ok, I've tried it again and I got to the gnomish mines... but while eating a
corpse I choked and died instantly.
...
...
...
WTF?
That is beyond unfair...
pete79
Heh, NetHack is *very* unfair. I haven't played the game much (OK, I
have practically never touched the game) but I heard that you can die
by just stepping on a corpse. Turns you to stone or something. I
wonder if there are any sillier ways to die in that game...
--
"I am NOT a moron." - Pete
Michele Furno
news:3a945590...@news.surfeu.fi...
> Heh, NetHack is *very* unfair.
??? I played a lot Nethack before finding ADOM and it seems as unfair as
ADOM to me....
I mean, it's a little tougher, there are less things to do, but it's not so
unfair...
> but I heard that you can die
> by just stepping on a corpse. Turns you to stone or something. I
> wonder if there are any sillier ways to die in that game...
Why not??? For example, if a monster has corrosive blood, you'll corrode by
stepping on its corpse.
Take it as a "monster intrinsic", once learnt you'll never step on it's
corpse.
Pretty much like trying to kill a gorgon without petrify resistance (even if
they never breathed at me, but I know they do), one blow can kill you.
ADOM has sillier ways to die (like a book that explode....) IMO.
> Pete
Bye.
--
Michele.
Michele Furno
nel messaggio news:971jeo$44a$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> <snip all>
>
> Ok, I've tried it again and I got to the gnomish mines... but while eating
a
> corpse I choked and died instantly.
So? You can be killed instantly even in ADOM...
a book that explode at the beginning
a trapped door as first door in the SMC
ice that breaks or melts while you're over the High Kings lake
being petrified by a gorgon.
Let Hotzenplotz hit you (with spellcasters)
a greater moloch in DH (with spellcasters)
and so on...
and don't tell me that many of these are NOT unfair...
Join the club of the insta-killed charachters :)
(many of my insta-deaths occourred in ADOM)
Bye.
--
Michele.
Jian He
It usually asks you whether you want to stop eating when you are too
full. Anyway what do you think you the status 'satiated' is there for?
You can also avoid choking by wearing an amulet of magical breathing,
you'll just puke instead of dying :)
Cheers
Jian
Jian He
On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, pete79 wrote:
> Heh, NetHack is *very* unfair. I haven't played the game much (OK, I
> have practically never touched the game) but I heard that you can die
> by just stepping on a corpse. Turns you to stone or something. I
> wonder if there are any sillier ways to die in that game...
> --
> "I am NOT a moron." - Pete
Actually you can step safely on a cockatrice corpse. It's only
when you're blind and you're trying to work out what is lying
on the ground, and you're not wearing gloves.
A personal favourite is dying to exhaustion after an encounter
with a sucubus :)
Cheers
Jian
Leon Planken
> On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, pete79 wrote:
>
> > Heh, NetHack is *very* unfair. I haven't played the game much (OK, I
> > have practically never touched the game) but I heard that you can die
> > by just stepping on a corpse. Turns you to stone or something. I
> > wonder if there are any sillier ways to die in that game...
> > --
> > "I am NOT a moron." - Pete
>
> Actually you can step safely on a cockatrice corpse. It's only
> when you're blind and you're trying to work out what is lying
> on the ground, and you're not wearing gloves.
LOL! That sounds like a game I'd like to try. Does it point out that you
died because you were blind and didn't wear gloves?
Gotta love that level of detail.
Leon
Kassandra Velez
<re death by stepping on a c*ckatrice corpse while blind and gloveless
in Nethack>
>LOL! That sounds like a game I'd like to try. Does it point out that you
>died because you were blind and didn't wear gloves?
No, it just IIRC says "Touching the cockatrice corpse was a fatal
mistake...", and then the record file has you down just as having died
to touching a cockatrice corpse. (I lost a very promising character to
exactly that yesterday.)
Chris Subich
>On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:40:03 -0000, "Sam Blanning"
><enqu...@nationalcoursingclub.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>><snip all>
>>
>>Ok, I've tried it again and I got to the gnomish mines... but while eating a
>>corpse I choked and died instantly.
Yes, but to be fair the game _was_ telling you you were getting full, and it's
quite likely that you told it to continue eating at least once.
>>
>>...
>>
>>...
>>
>>...
>>
>>WTF?
>>
>>That is beyond unfair...
>>
>Heh, NetHack is *very* unfair. I haven't played the game much (OK, I
>have practically never touched the game) but I heard that you can die
>by just stepping on a corpse. Turns you to stone or something. I
Cockatrice corpse, but you either have to kick it w/ bare feet or step on it
(and feel/touch it) while blinded (so you're feeling everything around) and not
wearing gloves. Makes one hell of a weapon, though.
>wonder if there are any sillier ways to die in that game...
Try kicking a sink.
--
Chris # csubich@g-d-i-.-n-e-t
# (remove dashes to email)
"... it is difficult to see any net benefit to consumers from
having a pretty picture that may cause their computer to hang"
- Lee A. Hollaar in Amicus Curiae in DoJ vs. Microsoft
John Hawkins
versions...my father used to take me to his labs at Tektronix and
babysit me by planting me in front of a mainframe dumb terminal and
showing me how to access the games menu from the command prompt. (One
of his friends is in the early acknowledgements...I've always thought
of that as kind of like knowing Maddonna or something...) He
introduced me to rogue, and then one day I just happened across
nethack. It was like this myth, because (since it was still new and
there was no public internet and, well, I was like 10) I could never
find it after that (and once I was old enough, he stopped taking me
in, the bastard). Something like five years later I happened across
it by accident...it was like finding the holy grail...
anyway, one of the things I remember from the early versions of
Nethack was the beautiful epitaphs provided for dying by eating. I
would do brilliant things (I was used to rogue, you'll recall) like
attempt to eat corpses hundreds of turns after the poor sods had died.
I think my all time favorite epitaph from Nethack is:
Quimbly the Elf
Killed by a dead nurse.
964 AU
Now THAT is a heroic death. :)
kve...@iris.nyit.edu (Kassandra Velez) writes:
Nethack rarely is kind enough to tell you which of the many stupid
things you have been doing has resulted in your death, but most deaths
are preventable. (Not all, certainly...sometimes lady fate just sees
a giant porcelain halo over your head...) Though if you consider
running back up the up staircase screaming as though your arse were on
fire to present a positive alternative to death, I suppose all deaths
are avoidable. :) I mean when you pick up the cockatrice corpse and
start beating people with it--I don't care if you ARE wearing gloves--
when you fall down the stairs and become a pathetic lump of stone
because you couldn't bear to part with that tenth long sword even
though you're chaotic and a monk besides, what's Nethack supposed to
say to you? "If only you'd had a BoH"?
John Hawkins
a pile of four. This has happened to me. Took the wind right out of
my maniacal laughter, I can tell you that much. :)
spoilly:
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This is not so unfair as you might think. Keep in mind that a corpse
is a lot of food. Especially if it's like your seventh. Watch your
stomach info. The problem is that in ADOM, satiated means slow, and
once you get really bloated, ADOM won't let you eat. Nethack will
ALWAYS let you eat. But there is no 'bloated' level, and at some
point the sewers back up. :)
Happy Hacking,
-John
(Who just died of terminal arrogance in the bottom of the mines his
own sorry self.)
PS At this point you are at the level where your concerns would be
better answered on r.g.r.nethack. Just stop taking such a negative
view of your deaths, dude. :) Roguelikes are HARD. I would venture
to guess you didn't rescue the puppy and conquer the pyramid on your
first three games of ADOM, neh?
John Hawkins
when I first tried it as Sam is experiencing w.r.t. Nethack. It took
me FOREVER to get over my nethack habits and learn to ALWAYS kick
doors down from an angle. Maybe I'm the only one for whom this is
standard practice and the rest of you just avoid them or something,
but assuming this is not atypical, might I point out that it bears a
striking similarity to the "Why the **** can't I move through doors
diagonally?" issue. ;)
-John
John Hawkins
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> It usually asks you whether you want to stop eating when you are too
> full.
Not necessarily. It asks you after a while, but if you eat when
you're full, there's always a chance it won't bother. That's why
spinach is so risky...never see it coming...the increments are too
small. Pickle and lime you to death...
> You can also avoid choking by wearing an amulet of magical breathing,
> you'll just puke instead of dying :)
I learn something new about the damn game every day...never even
occurred to me!
-John
pete79
<ji...@student.unimelb.edu.au> wrote:
>
>
>On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, pete79 wrote:
>
>> Heh, NetHack is *very* unfair. I haven't played the game much (OK, I
>> have practically never touched the game) but I heard that you can die
>> by just stepping on a corpse. Turns you to stone or something. I
>> wonder if there are any sillier ways to die in that game...
>> --
>> "I am NOT a moron." - Pete
>
>Actually you can step safely on a cockatrice corpse. It's only
>when you're blind and you're trying to work out what is lying
>on the ground, and you're not wearing gloves.
>
=D
Hmm, seems like I don't have NH anymore. Well, that's easy to fix.
::downloads NH from www.nethack.org::
--
"Hey, who stole my bike?" - Pete
pete79
wrote:
>On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:05:56 GMT, PSih...@surfeu.fi (pete79) wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:40:03 -0000, "Sam Blanning"
>><enqu...@nationalcoursingclub.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>><snip all>
>>>
>>>Ok, I've tried it again and I got to the gnomish mines... but while eating a
>>>corpse I choked and died instantly.
>
>Yes, but to be fair the game _was_ telling you you were getting full, and it's
>quite likely that you told it to continue eating at least once.
>
>>>
>>>...
>>>
>>>...
>>>
>>>...
>>>
>>>WTF?
>>>
>>>That is beyond unfair...
>>>
>>Heh, NetHack is *very* unfair. I haven't played the game much (OK, I
>>have practically never touched the game) but I heard that you can die
>>by just stepping on a corpse. Turns you to stone or something. I
>
>Cockatrice corpse, but you either have to kick it w/ bare feet or step on it
>(and feel/touch it) while blinded (so you're feeling everything around) and not
>wearing gloves. Makes one hell of a weapon, though.
>
Oh yeah...by the way, has anyone had a gorgon pet in ADOM?
>>wonder if there are any sillier ways to die in that game...
>
>Try kicking a sink.
>
What happens? What? Whatwhatwhat?
Juuso Heimonen
news:xa3x1ysr...@hotpink.engin.umich.edu...
: What's much worse is choking to death on that last can o' spinach
from
: a pile of four. This has happened to me. Took the wind right out
of
: my maniacal laughter, I can tell you that much. :)
: spoilly:
Well, they have a nutrition value of ... ::uses The Force:: ... 600
--
Juuso "Praise to the RNG" Heimonen
If you think sex isn't sticky, you're doing it wrong!
Kassandra Velez
<re silly NH deaths>
>Try kicking a sink.
Nonononono. Try _levitating_ over a sink while very low on HP.
Chris Subich
wrote:
Lol! I'd forgotten about that one.
And for those of you NetHack challenged, think of all meanings of the word
'sink'.
Sam Blanning
made me want to see the rest. And now I'll remember not to pig out so much.
The trouble was I had this idea that the choking was due to a bone in the
throat or something that wouldn't be affected by satiation state. So I
thought it was a random, unavoidable death. Apologies to Nethack :-)
ac...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca
> ...
> ...
> ...
> WTF?
> That is beyond unfair...
Nah, unfair is choking on spinach. I've had that happen a few times.
Or being blind and not wearing gloves and finding a chickatrice corpse.
or...
Seriously, nethack has a whole plethora of ways to die. It's also a much
harder game than adom, I find - the farthest I've been in nethack is dlvl 23
or so. I've never seen Gehennom. But it's a fun game, and one of these days
I'll sit down and addictively play it and eventually win.
--
Julian Day <jc...@home.com>
http://members.home.net/jcday/
ac...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca
> "Sam Blanning" <enqu...@nationalcoursingclub.freeserve.co.uk> ha scritto
> nel messaggio news:971jeo$44a$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> <snip all>
>>
>> Ok, I've tried it again and I got to the gnomish mines... but while eating
> a
>> corpse I choked and died instantly.
> So? You can be killed instantly even in ADOM...
> a book that explode at the beginning
> a trapped door as first door in the SMC
> ice that breaks or melts while you're over the High Kings lake
> being petrified by a gorgon.
> Let Hotzenplotz hit you (with spellcasters)
> a greater moloch in DH (with spellcasters)
> and so on...
> and don't tell me that many of these are NOT unfair...
With the exceptions of Gorgons and Nuurag, once you get to the midgame, it's
hard to find insta-deaths. Most insta-deaths in ADOM occur early on; everyone
has lost characters to stone block/fireball traps or those *$#@(#ing pit
vipers (have I ever mentioned how much I hatehatehate pit vipers?), but I've
never had an insta-death after around level 10 or so.
Nethack, on the other hand...well, there's the medusa level, spiked pits,
etc.
Michele Furno
news:uQcl6.4810$2i7....@news1.sshe1.sk.home.com...
> never had an insta-death after around level 10 or so.
I had, I had :(((
Only with spellcasters though.
> Nethack, on the other hand...well, there's the medusa level, spiked pits,
> etc.
Well, Nethack is quite different... you MUST go down, and if you find an OOD
monster you have to fight since returning back is much or less pointless....
> Julian Day <jc...@home.com>
Bye.
--
Michele.
John Hawkins
cockatrice foibles, I got Quimbly the Digger wandering around the
mines, and he found a figurine of a cockatrice! Woohoo! just a
matter of finding either some gloves or holy water. But before I
found either, I found a living breathing cockatrice ON THE SAME
LEVEL. Fine, except that when I noticed the cockatrice, I was unaware
that centered between us was a sleep trap.
"A cloud of gas puts you to sleep"
"You feel your limbs stiffening"
Oh, hell. :\
-John
Sam Blanning
> Ok... I'll play ADOM some more,
Nethack. Crap, that's the second stupid mistake I've made in as many days.
I'm getting as bad as when I'm talking with my mouth.
Sam Blanning
<ac...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> wrote in message
news:uQcl6.4810$2i7....@news1.sshe1.sk.home.com...
> Michele Furno <grey...@galactica.it> wrote:
> > "Sam Blanning" <enqu...@nationalcoursingclub.freeserve.co.uk> ha
scritto
> > nel messaggio news:971jeo$44a$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >> <snip all>
> >>
> >> Ok, I've tried it again and I got to the gnomish mines... but while
eating
> > a
> >> corpse I choked and died instantly.
>
> > So? You can be killed instantly even in ADOM...
> > a book that explode at the beginning
Don't read complicated books at level 1.
> > a trapped door as first door in the SMC
That is unfair, but it shouldn't take off all your HP.
> > ice that breaks or melts while you're over the High Kings lake
Drop your stuff and don't Fire Bolt yourself (or whatever you'd have to do
to make the ice melt).
> > being petrified by a gorgon.
Unfair, granted, unless you have the appropriate amulet.
> > Let Hotzenplotz hit you (with spellcasters)
He shouldn't hit you with a spellcaster.
> > a greater moloch in DH (with spellcasters)
O_o you mean a fighter could deal with a greater moloch??
(Sorry for replying to a reply here, but propagation delay means I haven't
seen the original message yet).
>
> > and so on...
>
> > and don't tell me that many of these are NOT unfair...
Sorry, but all but two aren't. (GMs are easy to avoid).
Leon Planken
> Michele Furno <grey...@galactica.it> wrote:
> > "Sam Blanning" <enqu...@nationalcoursingclub.freeserve.co.uk> ha scritto
> > nel messaggio news:971jeo$44a$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >> <snip all>
> >>
> >> Ok, I've tried it again and I got to the gnomish mines... but while eating
> > a
> >> corpse I choked and died instantly.
>
> > So? You can be killed instantly even in ADOM...
> > a book that explode at the beginning
> > a trapped door as first door in the SMC
> > ice that breaks or melts while you're over the High Kings lake
> > being petrified by a gorgon.
> > Let Hotzenplotz hit you (with spellcasters)
> > a greater moloch in DH (with spellcasters)
>
> > and so on...
>
> > and don't tell me that many of these are NOT unfair...
>
> With the exceptions of Gorgons and Nuurag, once you get to the midgame, it's
> hard to find insta-deaths. Most insta-deaths in ADOM occur early on; everyone
> has lost characters to stone block/fireball traps or those *$#@(#ing pit
> vipers (have I ever mentioned how much I hatehatehate pit vipers?), but I've
> never had an insta-death after around level 10 or so.
Never got sacrificed after lvl 10?
Leon
Leon Planken
Aw, come on, they weren't that stupid. And better a mistake here on the
newsgroup than when playing ADoM :-)
Leon
Rachel Walmsley
> With the exceptions of Gorgons and Nuurag, once you get to the midgame, it's
> hard to find insta-deaths. Most insta-deaths in ADOM occur early on; everyone
> has lost characters to stone block/fireball traps or those *$#@(#ing pit
> vipers (have I ever mentioned how much I hatehatehate pit vipers?), but I've
> never had an insta-death after around level 10 or so.
spoily...
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Oh, there are a fair few. The Banshee for example. Or being hit in melee
by a sickness causing monster without any curaria mancrox (sp?) herbs.
Or that time I had an acid vortex on the top lvel of the pyramid and
couldn't kill it before it exploded on me. Or that time I walked into a
room to kill a claw bug only to discover that it was a deadly and
chilling silence room and not having a chance to get out before I got
hit. Or when walking along when an innocent looking weapon suddenly
turns into a master mimic, hits, you, paralyses you and kills you. Or
standing in the dark when doomed. Or...well, lots of things really.
RW.
Michele Furno
> > > a book that explode at the beginning
>
> Don't read complicated books at level 1.
It happened to me with quite-easy books too and after I already mastered
that spell.
Anyway, define "complicated"....
[trap door]
> That is unfair, but it shouldn't take off all your HP.
Many times I died (as spellcaster) while I was full of HP :((((
> > > being petrified by a gorgon.
>
> Unfair, granted, unless you have the appropriate amulet.
Which isn't so common (I saw two or three of these amulets in my entire ADOM
experience)
> > > Let Hotzenplotz hit you (with spellcasters)
>
> He shouldn't hit you with a spellcaster.
Ok, but if it does...... (it happened once...)
> > > a greater moloch in DH (with spellcasters)
>
> O_o you mean a fighter could deal with a greater moloch??
No, but with fighter-type chars. it's not an insta-kill; with spellcasters
it is sometimes.
> (Sorry for replying to a reply here, but propagation delay means I haven't
> seen the original message yet).
No problems.
> Sorry, but all but two aren't. (GMs are easy to avoid).
If you can see them coming...
Bye.
--
Michele.
John Rowat
> "Sam Blanning" <enqu...@nationalcoursingclub.freeserve.co.uk> ha scritto
>> > > being petrified by a gorgon.
>>
>> Unfair, granted, unless you have the appropriate amulet.
> Which isn't so common (I saw two or three of these amulets in my entire ADOM
> experience)
Or you can just avoid them. Gorgons are not dangerous creatures, except
for their special attack. Darkness, teleport, slow monster (if you feel
lucky), just outrunning them, wand of door creation, missiles from a
non-direct line square, wand of monster creation to give them a
distraction... that's 8 ways in 30 seconds, none of them complicated or
hard to acquire. Since you won't see gorgons outside the DH before level
30 or so, at least, any of those should be good.
>> > > Let Hotzenplotz hit you (with spellcasters)
>>
>> He shouldn't hit you with a spellcaster.
> Ok, but if it does...... (it happened once...)
Take that argument to it's conclusion: It's unfair for monsters to be
able to hit you, because monsters are strong and can kill you.
Hotzenplotz is no stronger than a Doppleganger Lord, or a Dorn Beast, and
I'd much rather face him than a Doppleganger King or Berserker Emperor or
a Werewolf Lord.
>> > > a greater moloch in DH (with spellcasters)
>>
>> O_o you mean a fighter could deal with a greater moloch??
> No, but with fighter-type chars. it's not an insta-kill; with spellcasters
> it is sometimes.
It's got a bloody speed of 60 and no missile attacks! How on earth can
that POSSIBLY be an instakill unless you run up to it and hit it with a
stick?
>> Sorry, but all but two aren't. (GMs are easy to avoid).
> If you can see them coming...
If you can't see a Greater Moloch coming, you have bigger problems than it
killing you.
"Hmm - the whole level is shaking, and there is a big, brown '&' moving
very slowly towards me. I wonder what is going on? Oh, well, I shall
smite this big, brown, slowmoving '&' with the Sword of Nonnak and then
proceed on my merry way. <pause, *thumb*, WYLYPI?> Hey! RGRA! Pity me,
Greater Molochs are unfair instakills!"
-John
--
[The right to own a gun is...] The right to free expression. I can
articulate my disagreement with you by shooting you -- thus, a gun is
as protected as a pen or printing press.
-Rob Russell
Michele Furno
news:974b03$cle$1...@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca...
> As roses wither, so does Michele Furno:
> Or you can just avoid them.
Of course you can avoid them as you can avoid everything except the trap
door (if you don't have a key).
But we were speaking of cases in which you can get insta-killed, and a
gorgon is one.
> Take that argument to it's conclusion: It's unfair for monsters to be
> able to hit you,
No, but Hotzenplotz (unless you leave him be until you're very experienced)
can do a lot of damage and insta-kill a spellcaster if he manage to come
close to you.
This was my experience as an Elementalist:
I was Clev: 10, just got the quest from the Sheriff; I tought "Hey, I can
kill him" because I had frost bolt with a good specialization.
I waited until Hotzie and the two half-orcs were aligned and then I began to
cast frost bolt.
I managed to kill the orcs with two castings and Hotzie panicked after the
third.
He managed to escape me (I wasn't on his line so I couldn't hit him) and he
turned around the corner of his hut.
I followed him, but when I took the same turn he took, I discovered that he
recovered the shock; but it was to late to escape, it was his turn, he hit
me, he poisoned me and I died (I was FULL with HP)...
Insta-death.
> Hotzenplotz is no stronger than a Doppleganger Lord, or a Dorn Beast, and
> I'd much rather face him than a Doppleganger King or Berserker Emperor or
> a Werewolf Lord.
This is for sure, but a lev 10 charachter can't deal properly with none of
the monsters you described, unless he's a really good spellcaster.
> It's got a bloody speed of 60 and no missile attacks! How on earth can
> that POSSIBLY be an instakill unless you run up to it and hit it with a
> stick?
Quite the same example with Hotzie...
I turned around a corner in DH2 and... ta-daaaaa, I was toe to toe with a
GM, but, too bad, it was his turn...
*SQUASH*
Insta-death.
> If you can't see a Greater Moloch coming, you have bigger problems than it
> killing you.
See above.
> Greater Molochs are unfair instakills!"
See above.
I didn't mean that all insta-deaths are unfair, but that insta-deaths can
happen even in ADOM.
> -John
Bye.
--
Michele.
jc...@home.com
Of course, but that's because I'm not thinking properly. And since I rarely
play chaotics, it's not usually an issue (you get sacced far less frequently
when neutral, and almost never when lawful).
Andy Williams
> Since you won't see gorgons outside the DH before level
> 30 or so, at least
Au contraire. I played a PC yesterday that saw (and
killed, remarkably, with no petrification resistance)
three of them yesterday. He had done all of the
Thrundarr quests but had not descended further in the
CoC, had the RotHK (at least one gorgon was generated
in that dungeon), part of Darkforge, part of the Dusty
Dungeon, the Druid Dungeon, the UD and the Puppy Cave.
I seem to remember one gorgon being in a mixed tension
room somewhere.
Very, very stupid death for that PC. Pursued a
panicked master mimic in the Pyramid with no
paralyzation resistance. Predictable outcome.
--
Andy Williams - real address andywlms at ct2 dot nai dot net
ADOM Guidebook: http://w3.nai.net/~andywlms/adom.html
John Rowat
>> Hotzenplotz is no stronger than a Doppleganger Lord, or a Dorn Beast, and
>> I'd much rather face him than a Doppleganger King or Berserker Emperor or
>> a Werewolf Lord.
> This is for sure, but a lev 10 charachter can't deal properly with none of
> the monsters you described, unless he's a really good spellcaster.
I'll kill every single one of them in succession with a level 10 archer,
provided I'm given the choice of what order to do them in and a select
wand or two.
A level 10 wizard or mindcrafter is even easier. A level 10 barbarian is
in trouble, though
If all I've got to do is get around them, only the DK and the Werewolf
lord will slow down ANY character, and with a wand or two I win.
>> It's got a bloody speed of 60 and no missile attacks! How on earth can
>> that POSSIBLY be an instakill unless you run up to it and hit it with a
>> stick?
> Quite the same example with Hotzie...
> I turned around a corner in DH2 and... ta-daaaaa, I was toe to toe with a
> GM, but, too bad, it was his turn...
Ah. Y'see, I never step diagonally around corners when there's a Greater
Moloch on the level. If he's at the corner, he's visible. If he's more
than one square away, I can outrun him - and you really, really should
save your wands of monster detection for GM's, Greater Titans, and vaults.
It'll save your life.
>> Greater Molochs are unfair instakills!"
> See above.
> I didn't mean that all insta-deaths are unfair, but that insta-deaths can
> happen even in ADOM.
Very true, but they're *all* avoidable if you know what to expect. The
worst one is the banshee, but everyone knows about that or learns very,
very fast, and there ARE clues before and a big hint when you hit the
level.
jc...@home.com
> Or you can just avoid them. Gorgons are not dangerous creatures, except
> for their special attack. Darkness, teleport, slow monster (if you feel
> lucky), just outrunning them, wand of door creation, missiles from a
> non-direct line square, wand of monster creation to give them a
> distraction... that's 8 ways in 30 seconds, none of them complicated or
> hard to acquire. Since you won't see gorgons outside the DH before level
> 30 or so, at least, any of those should be good.
I found one today in the big room, at around level 16 or 17 or so.
Thankfully, it fell to a few mind blasts, and then a telekinetic blast when
it was a square away.
I treat these things with the utmost caution, but I've never had them give me
the dreaded petrification beam.
> Take that argument to it's conclusion: It's unfair for monsters to be
> able to hit you, because monsters are strong and can kill you.
> Hotzenplotz is no stronger than a Doppleganger Lord, or a Dorn Beast, and
> I'd much rather face him than a Doppleganger King or Berserker Emperor or
> a Werewolf Lord.
I'd much rather face a doppleganger lord than Hotzy. His poison is pretty
powerful. But yeah, I'd rather face almost anything than a doppleganger
king. I've never really had too many problems with Berserker Emperors,
but I think I've been lucky.
>> No, but with fighter-type chars. it's not an insta-kill; with spellcasters
>> it is sometimes.
> It's got a bloody speed of 60 and no missile attacks! How on earth can
> that POSSIBLY be an instakill unless you run up to it and hit it with a
> stick?
Let's say you're in a room, and the only way out is through the corridor
that the moloch is coming down. The room isn't wide enough for you to
maneuver around it once it gets there, so it's going to get at least one hit
in.
I've had this happen before, though only with a regular moloch, so it wasn't
really a problem.
John Rowat
> John Rowat <jro...@prince.carleton.ca> wrote:
> But yeah, I'd rather face almost anything than a doppleganger
> king. I've never really had too many problems with Berserker Emperors,
> but I think I've been lucky.
They don't SEEM bad until you realize that your character who's meleed
through everything else in the room with no problem is now stuck, not
hitting for much damage at all, and being struck repeatedly with enough to
penetrate the armour.
They're not immediately deadly, but they're really, really annoying.
Usually enough to warrant bringing out the heavy guns.
>> It's got a bloody speed of 60 and no missile attacks! How on earth can
>> that POSSIBLY be an instakill unless you run up to it and hit it with a
>> stick?
> Let's say you're in a room, and the only way out is through the corridor
> that the moloch is coming down. The room isn't wide enough for you to
> maneuver around it once it gets there, so it's going to get at least one hit
> in.
Molochs of all sort have no magical defenses. Get it into the room and
stun/confuse/blind it. If you've got the charges to spare, hit it in the
corridor and wait for it to stagger into one of the walls. Alternately,
throw up Darkness once it reaches the room and dodge.
Michele Furno
> As roses wither, so does Michele Furno:
> I'll kill every single one of them in succession with a level 10 archer,
> provided I'm given the choice of what order to do them in and a select
> wand or two.
>
> A level 10 wizard or mindcrafter is even easier. A level 10 barbarian is
> in trouble, though
Well... I'm always in trouble when I find a werewolf lord.... so far I
managed to kill only one of them and I saw 5...
I was a spellcaster 4 times out of 5 and I was above level 13.
> Ah. Y'see, I never step diagonally around corners when there's a Greater
> Moloch on the level. If he's at the corner, he's visible. If he's more
> than one square away, I can outrun him - and you really, really should
> save your wands of monster detection for GM's, Greater Titans, and vaults.
> It'll save your life.
Now I don't remember what I did that time but I'm quite sure I didn't step
diagonally... it was a L-shaped corridor
# . #
# . #
#&####
#@ . . .
######
This is what happened IIRC.
And I didn't cast monster detection because I used the last charge of my
wand (no more potions of booze) on DH1.
> but they're *all* avoidable if you know what to expect.
Of course they are, but so even Sam Blanning's one was....
The point of the whole discussion isn't the unavoidability of insta-deaths
(as I said in the previous post) but the fact that they CAN occour in
Nethack as in ADOM.
And some are really unfair.
> -John
Bye.
--
Michele.
Juuso Heimonen
: Interestingly, immediately following the last round of posts about
: cockatrice foibles, I got Quimbly the Digger wandering around the
: mines, and he found a figurine of a cockatrice! Woohoo! just a
: matter of finding either some gloves or holy water
????
Is it a Statue Trap or what are you talking about?
--
Juuso "Praise to the RNG" Heimonen
Some people wish to learn to swim and at the same time to keep one
foot on the ground.
-- Marcel Proust
Juuso Heimonen
news:7wLpU$T-...@kosmos.inka.de...
: > Well, they have a nutrition value of ... ::uses The Force:: ... 600
:
: use the spoiler luke ;)
=))
--
Juuso "Praise to the RNG" Heimonen
You have just as much chance for success on this day as on any other,
so make it a good one.
Jukka Kuusisto
In rec.games.roguelike.adom, "Juuso Heimonen" <juuso.h...@mail.wwnet.fi>
writes:
>"John Hawkins" <jsha...@eecs.umich.edu> wrote in message
>news:xa3xelwq...@sapphire.engin.umich.edu...
>: Interestingly, immediately following the last round of posts about
>: cockatrice foibles, I got Quimbly the Digger wandering around the
>: mines, and he found a figurine of a cockatrice! Woohoo! just a
>: matter of finding either some gloves or holy water
>????
>Is it a Statue Trap or what are you talking about?
No, figurines can be a)pplied. This action results in a living monster of
the figurine's type. The generated monster may be tame, peaceful or hostile
and the chances are affected by the b/u/c status of the figurine, as usual.
Statues, however, can't be a)pplied to generate a monster. Statue traps are
monsters posing as statues.
-Jukka
--
Jukka Kuusisto
pete79
<grey...@galactica.it> wrote:
>Of course they are, but so even Sam Blanning's one was....
>The point of the whole discussion isn't the unavoidability of insta-deaths
>(as I said in the previous post) but the fact that they CAN occour in
>Nethack as in ADOM.
>And some are really unfair.
>
p
o
i
l
y
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Getting hit by Hotz is not an insta-kill. Getting hit by a greater
moloch is not an insta-kill. Even the chaos piranhas are not
insta-kills, they drain a lot but it's not insta-kill.
Some examples of insta-kills and ways to get around them (I wouldn't
call them unfair):
Getting eaten alive by a grue in the dark while doomed.
- don't go in the dark while doomed
Gorgons.
- have petrification resistance or kill them from afar
Death rays.
- have death ray resistance
Walking into a room with deadly and chilling silence and getting hit.
- don't get hit in a room with deadly and chilling silence
Getting sacced.
- don't stand on altars while there are such monsters around that can
sac you
- If you're saccing items and want to prevent monsters from suddenly
appearing nearby to sac you, cast darkness
Getting paralyzed by a mimic (or something similar) and never
recovering.
- have free action
- have higher DV/PV
Some of these solutions are not always available but IMO, it's not
unfair. Certain wands and running/teleporting away can also be an easy
way to get around a problem.
Leon Planken
> If you can't see a Greater Moloch coming, you have bigger problems than it
> killing you.
>
> "Hmm - the whole level is shaking, and there is a big, brown '&' moving
> very slowly towards me. I wonder what is going on? Oh, well, I shall
> smite this big, brown, slowmoving '&' with the Sword of Nonnak and then
> proceed on my merry way. <pause, *thumb*, WYLYPI?> Hey! RGRA! Pity me,
> Greater Molochs are unfair instakills!"
What does WYLYPI stand for?
Leon
Leon Planken
Unless you happen to walk over a slab of obsidian. Okay, so it's stupid,
but it happens. Luckily not that often, though.
Leon
Michele Furno
news:3a963d76...@news.surfeu.fi...
> Some of these solutions are not always available but IMO, it's not
> unfair. Certain wands and running/teleporting away can also be an easy
> way to get around a problem.
Uff.. man, I'm getting a little tired saying that I *____DON'T____* discuss
the avoidability of insta-deaths, I'm only saying that insta-deaths *___CAN
OCCOUR___* even in ADOM.
They're avoidables perfectly with the right stuff, but so they are in
Nethack too.
And I didn't mean saying that all insta-deaths are unfair, but *___SOME___*
they are.
P.S.: a GM toe to toe *___SOMETIMES___* is an insta-death, see my example,
and I'm quite sure I'm not the only one who got insta-killed by a GM.
Bye.
--
Michele.
pete79
Huh? I just mentioned that no insta-kill is unfair. I haven't seen
your other messages, thus can't know what you said there. The
definition of what is an insta-kill also seems to vary. IMO, an
insta-kill is something that can kill a character even if (s)he had
1000000 hitpoints. Paralyzation deaths are somewhere on the limit, as
it usually takes a while to die, but basically it is an instant death
if your DV/PV is low or you lack free action.
Juuso Heimonen
news:Pine.HPP.3.95.101022...@elektron.its.tudelft.nl...
: > If you can't see a Greater Moloch coming, you have bigger problems than
Would You Like Your Possessions Identified?
--
Juuso "Praise to the RNG" Heimonen
-- 'Shit Happens' according to...
Avoidanceism: With all this happening, I think I'll go shit.
Sam Blanning
Michele Furno <grey...@galactica.it> wrote in message
news:JYsl6.8655$Yx4.3...@news6.giganews.com...
died, but now, I'd not let that happen. And if you're lucky enough to have
Acid Bolt or Magic Missile (maybe quarrels/arrows/sling bullets of
demon/humanoid slaying, but I wouldn't know) they're very easy to kill.
Sam Blanning
> "Sam Blanning" <enqu...@nationalcoursingclub.freeserve.co.uk> ha scritto
> nel messaggio news:9745at$f00$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> > > > a book that explode at the beginning
> >
> > Don't read complicated books at level 1.
>
> It happened to me with quite-easy books too and after I already mastered
> that spell.
> Anyway, define "complicated"....
Acid Ball.
> > > > being petrified by a gorgon.
> >
> > Unfair, granted, unless you have the appropriate amulet.
>
> Which isn't so common (I saw two or three of these amulets in my entire
ADOM
> experience)
Are you sure? There are three amulets alone that will do it, IIRC.
Sam Blanning
<jc...@home.com> wrote in message
news:gSnl6.5166$2i7....@news1.sshe1.sk.home.com...
> John Rowat <jro...@prince.carleton.ca> wrote:
>
>
> I treat these things with the utmost caution, but I've never had them give
me
> the dreaded petrification beam.
I've faced about, I'd say... maybe 7-10 gorgons, and been breathed on once.
>
> > Take that argument to it's conclusion: It's unfair for monsters to be
> > able to hit you, because monsters are strong and can kill you.
> > Hotzenplotz is no stronger than a Doppleganger Lord, or a Dorn Beast,
and
> > I'd much rather face him than a Doppleganger King or Berserker Emperor
or
> > a Werewolf Lord.
>
> I'd much rather face a doppleganger lord than Hotzy. His poison is pretty
> powerful. But yeah, I'd rather face almost anything than a doppleganger
> king. I've never really had too many problems with Berserker Emperors,
> but I think I've been lucky.
Anyone mind telling me what's so tough about Doppelganger Kings?
Sam Blanning
John Rowat <jro...@prince.carleton.ca> wrote in message
news:974b03$cle$1...@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca...
> As roses wither, so does Michele Furno:
> > "Sam Blanning" <enqu...@nationalcoursingclub.freeserve.co.uk> ha
scritto
>
> >> > > being petrified by a gorgon.
> >>
> >> Unfair, granted, unless you have the appropriate amulet.
>
> > Which isn't so common (I saw two or three of these amulets in my entire
ADOM
> > experience)
>
> Or you can just avoid them. Gorgons are not dangerous creatures, except
> for their special attack. Darkness, teleport, slow monster (if you feel
> lucky), just outrunning them, wand of door creation, missiles from a
> non-direct line square, wand of monster creation to give them a
> distraction... that's 8 ways in 30 seconds, none of them complicated or
> hard to acquire. Since you won't see gorgons outside the DH before level
> 30 or so, at least, any of those should be good.
>
vaults, yes, you shouldn't encounter them before you have a means of
petrification resistance.
Sam Blanning
Rachel Walmsley <rac...@rabidchild.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3A95AACF...@rabidchild.co.uk...
That's not an insta-death. That's being killed instantly. I define
insta-death as 'insta-death (in-stah def) (n) an unavoidable, death, usually
instant and causing the player to get very annoyed and probably post details
on RGRA.' The Banshee is by no means unavoidable. Of course, it's possible
for her to turn up in the early game.
> Or being hit in melee
> by a sickness causing monster without any curaria mancrox (sp?) herbs.
First Aid, prayer, high HP, and running away from sickness monsters when
these aren't available usually deal with these.
> Or that time I had an acid vortex on the top lvel of the pyramid and
> couldn't kill it before it exploded on me.
Avoidable if you'd left the pyramid long enough to get suitable equipment
and improve your attack. Yes, it's not worth doing this for the remote
chance of an acid vortex, but it's a way of avoiding the death.
> Or that time I walked into a
> room to kill a claw bug only to discover that it was a deadly and
> chilling silence room and not having a chance to get out before I got
> hit.
Hmm... I'd say this was still technically avoidable if you'd, say, hit it
from afar or lured it out of the room first.
Or when walking along when an innocent looking weapon suddenly
> turns into a master mimic, hits, you, paralyses you and kills you.
'Ooh! A nice purple weapon! Must be an artifact! I'll pick it up...'
I have rarely seen mimics that I couldn't actually detect. Either they look
like pink armour, or they suddenly appear on the map even though I know
there wasn't any items in the room when I last saw it, or, most often, both.
> Or
> standing in the dark when doomed.
Don't be doomed. That's most certainly avoidable.
Michele Furno
> Huh? I just mentioned that no insta-kill is unfair. I haven't seen
> your other messages, thus can't know what you said there.
Oh, ok then; sorry man.
> The
> definition of what is an insta-kill also seems to vary.
Well, my definition of insta-kill is:
being killed in one turn without a chance of counteract.
This includes my examples and yours.
> but basically it is an instant death
> if your DV/PV is low or you lack free action.
Exact. We were speaking of an insta-death occoured to Sam Blannings while
playing Nethack; he ate to death IIRC and he was upset because he tought it
was an unfair death.
I replied that even in ADOM it's not so hard getting insta-killed, and some
of insta-deaths are unfair (like an exploding trap door as the first and
only door in the first room of the first dungeon you venture in).
These insta-deaths are perfectly avoidables if you have the right stuff with
you, but sometimes you haven't.
Bye.
--
Michele.
Michele Furno
> Acid Ball.
I got a *ball spellbook at the beginning only once in my entire ADOM
experience...
I'm sure it was a normal *bolt spell and I wasn't a troll but a human priest
IIRC
> Are you sure? There are three amulets alone that will do it, IIRC.
????
Which amulet you're referring to?
I was speaking about amulets of petrification resistance which I've only
seen three times so far...
The fourth today.
Bye.
--
Michele.
Michele Furno
nel messaggio news:9761s6$tab$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> I had one when I was a newbie, in the DH. I got trapped in a corner and
> died, but now, I'd not let that happen.
Ok, for the third time in this thread I explain that it is not too hard to
turn around a corner (in a L or U or H-shaped corridor) and discover that
you're toe to toe with a monster; usually it's a normal monster you can
handle, but when this happens with a GM and you're a spellcaster the result
is an insta-death unless it miss you.
Ehm... sorry if this seems rude, but i'm not going to explain this anymore;
what I write for if no-one read my previous messages?
Bye.
--
Michele.
John Rowat
> On 23 Feb 2001, John Rowat wrote:
>> <pause, *thumb*, WYLYPI?>
> What does WYLYPI stand for?
Would You Like Your Posessions Identified?
The ADOM equivalent is "would you like to view your inventory?"
Rachel Walmsley
> Ok, for the third time in this thread I explain that it is not too hard to
> turn around a corner (in a L or U or H-shaped corridor) and discover that
> you're toe to toe with a monster; usually it's a normal monster you can
> handle, but when this happens with a GM and you're a spellcaster the result
> is an insta-death unless it miss you.
But most times that could happen you should have heard the *thumb*ing
and been taking extra special care - using wands of monster detection,
getting the hell out of there, etc. so you're forewarned. Yes, you can
come face to face with one as soon as you go down a flight of stairs, or
around a corner as you leave the first room on a level, butnot often.
RW.
pete79
Insta-death means dying instantly. When you hear the banshee wail you
die instantly.
[snip Sam's definition of an insta-death]
My definition is losing every single hitpoint in an instant, no matter
how much you have them. Mimic hiveminds possibly added there since you
have little chance to survive if you start losing hitpoints and you
don't get a single turn in the process. Of course, if you have 1000000
hitpoints the mimic might get bored at some point. ;)
>> Or that time I walked into a
>> room to kill a claw bug only to discover that it was a deadly and
>> chilling silence room and not having a chance to get out before I got
>> hit.
>
>Hmm... I'd say this was still technically avoidable if you'd, say, hit it
>from afar or lured it out of the room first.
>
These rooms are evil indeed. I once had this kind of room in the ID
right after using the stairs. Luckily, I was a druid and there was
only a friendly bat around.
Sam Blanning
SMC
VD/DD
PC
ID
CoC
Not all of those are going to have exploding doors as the first and only way
out, are they? Just do another. This is tiresome, and you'd probably just
kick the door down in the hope it wasn't trapped, but it's enough to make
this not an instakill.
Sam Blanning
you don't walk diagonally round corners.
Sam Blanning
> "Sam Blanning" <enqu...@nationalcoursingclub.freeserve.co.uk> ha scritto
> nel messaggio news:9761tq$tbb$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> > Acid Ball.
>
> I got a *ball spellbook at the beginning only once in my entire ADOM
> experience...
> I'm sure it was a normal *bolt spell and I wasn't a troll but a human
priest
> IIRC
It doesn't matter what race you are, it's not a smart idea to read
spellbooks of Acid Ball if you start with one.
>
> > Are you sure? There are three amulets alone that will do it, IIRC.
>
> ????
> Which amulet you're referring to?
> I was speaking about amulets of petrification resistance which I've only
> seen three times so far...
> The fourth today.
>
Well, I'm not entirely sure, but I think AoPR, amulets of protection from
constructs, and amulets of free action will all do it. You should find at
least one at some point...
Sam Blanning
pete79 <PSih...@surfeu.fi> wrote in message
news:3a96beee...@news.surfeu.fi...
can't avoid. Since we're discussing unfairness here, as, if you remember,
the original argument was about choking on bones in Nethack (which isn't
unfair, I know now, but that set out the definition of insta-death), the
Banshee isn't an insta-death because she isn't unfair. After all, you don't
instantly die when you see her in all cases.
Michele Furno
> It doesn't matter what race you are, it's not a smart idea to read
> spellbooks of Acid Ball if you start with one.
Ok, I know but it wasn't the *ball spellbook that exploded.....
it was a normal *bolt spellbook and after I already mastered that spell.
> Well, I'm not entirely sure, but I think AoPR, amulets of protection from
> constructs, and amulets of free action will all do it. You should find at
> least one at some point...
protection from construct doesn't protect against the petrification breath
of a gorgon...
I saw only 4 AoPR so far and I don't know how many amulets of free action.
Bye.
--
Michele.
Michele Furno
news:3A96C3E1...@rabidchild.co.uk...
> Michele Furno wrote:
>
> But most times that could happen you should have heard the *thumb*ing
> and been taking extra special care - using wands of monster detection,
> getting the hell out of there, etc. so you're forewarned.
:((( again I explain that I was in the middle of DH2 when I first noticed
the *THUMB*, and so, returning back or continue was quite the same thing; I
had the same possibility to find it on my way back or my "regular" way
searching for the staircase.
I didn't use monster detection because I used the final charge of my wand on
DH1 (IIRC there was a certain tension room I wanted to avoid...).
> Yes, you can
> come face to face with one as soon as you go down a flight of stairs, or
> around a corner as you leave the first room on a level, butnot often.
I didn't say it is common, but sometimes happens...
> RW.
Bye.
--
Michele.
Michele Furno
nel messaggio news:976rtj$ain$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Not all of those are going to have exploding doors as the first and only
way
> out, are they? Just do another. This is tiresome, and you'd probably just
> kick the door down in the hope it wasn't trapped, but it's enough to make
> this not an instakill.
Well, sometimes this isn't true, because even a touch can trigger the trap
:(((((
And it seems that most of my trolls don't need to kick a door to make them
explode :(((((
Bye.
--
Michele.
Michele Furno
> I did, but it's already been explained that if you hear *THUMB* sounds
then
> you don't walk diagonally round corners.
I ALREADY EXPLAINED that I DIDN'T walk diagonally...
I even made a little drawing of the scene :(((((
It was an L shaped corridor and this was the situation:
# . #
# . #
#&#####
#@ . . . .
#######
You see? I didn't walk diagonally.
Then it was its turn, it smashed me into many little pieces....
Second: when I heard the first *THUMB* (or when I first noticed the thumb) I
was much or less in the middle of the level (couldn't fint the staircase) so
I had the same % of finding it on my way back or on the "regular" way to the
staircase.
Bye.
--
Michele.
Jukka Kuusisto
>That's your definition. My definition of an insta-kill is something you
>can't avoid.
By that definition there are exactly two insta-kills, since if you enter
the first wilderness square in the beginning of the game and stay there,
nothing can kill you except starving and old age, which are therefore
insta-kills.
Every death can be avoided by not being there when it happens. That's
not a valid definition IMHO. A better one is "something that switches
your state from 'everything OK' to 'dead' in one turn.
-Jukka
--
Jukka Kuusisto
The Wanderer
> With the exceptions of Gorgons and Nuurag, once you get to the midgame, it's
> hard to find insta-deaths. Most insta-deaths in ADOM occur early on; everyone
> has lost characters to stone block/fireball traps or those *$#@(#ing pit
> vipers (have I ever mentioned how much I hatehatehate pit vipers?), but I've
> never had an insta-death after around level 10 or so.
I just had one yesterday, in the Mana Temple: having just killed
Nuurag, I was trying to clear a space to step over there and pick up
the orb when the last remaining annihilator destroyed my girdle of
greed. I was instantly crushed to death by about nine million or so gold
pieces. Completely unexpected, but...
--
The Wanderer, who has never made it out of the FT without cheating
I feel I should warn you I'm slightly mad.
Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.
The Wanderer
> Anyone mind telling me what's so tough about Doppelganger Kings?
It's been awhile since I was far enough to meet one but not powerful
enough to not worry, but I remember the problem being the same as with
doppelgangers and doppelganger lords only more so: confusion along with
almost every attack, and no sooner have you recovered from confusion
than the doppelganger confuses you again before you get a chance to act.
I've lost plenty of low-level characters to straight doppelgangers that
way, and higher-level characters who either haven't got a means of
confusion resistance (or equivalent - fast recovery of some sort) or
arent't lucky enough to have the critter not attempt to confuse (the
last six or so doppelganger kings I've run into haven't even tried to
look like me, for some reason) can go down the same way.
--
The Wanderer
matija
>
> > "Hmm - the whole level is shaking, and there is a big, brown '&' moving
> > very slowly towards me. I wonder what is going on? Oh, well, I shall
> > smite this big, brown, slowmoving '&' with the Sword of Nonnak and then
> > proceed on my merry way. <pause, *thumb*, WYLYPI?> Hey! RGRA! Pity me,
> > Greater Molochs are unfair instakills!"
>
Why, You Little Yellow Putrefaction of Impertinence!
of course, that's completely and utterly wrong, since we
already discovered that greater molochs aren't yellow,
but brown instead. if we were to be correct, we'd have
to change WYLYPI to WYLBPI, and that's impossible to
pronounce as a single word, so - no deal.
(excuse me, now, while i go and drink some more of that
yummy cough syrup ;)
--
address is scrambled - remove SPAMISEVIL to reply
John Hawkins
8< [snip]
> Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
> side of it.
Do you mind if I copy this? :)
Sam Blanning
The Wanderer <thewa...@crosslink.net> wrote in message
news:3A979859...@crosslink.net...
> Sam Blanning wrote:
>
> > Anyone mind telling me what's so tough about Doppelganger Kings?
>
> It's been awhile since I was far enough to meet one but not powerful
> enough to not worry, but I remember the problem being the same as with
> doppelgangers and doppelganger lords only more so: confusion along with
> almost every attack, and no sooner have you recovered from confusion
> than the doppelganger confuses you again before you get a chance to act.
> I've lost plenty of low-level characters to straight doppelgangers that
> way, and higher-level characters who either haven't got a means of
> confusion resistance (or equivalent - fast recovery of some sort) or
> arent't lucky enough to have the critter not attempt to confuse (the
> last six or so doppelganger kings I've run into haven't even tried to
> look like me, for some reason) can go down the same way.
>
Sam Blanning
> "Sam Blanning" <enqu...@nationalcoursingclub.freeserve.co.uk> ha scritto
> nel messaggio news:976s3s$36$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
from
> > constructs, and amulets of free action will all do it. You should find
at
> > least one at some point...
>
> protection from construct doesn't protect against the petrification breath
> of a gorgon...
> I saw only 4 AoPR so far and I don't know how many amulets of free action.
>
resistance isn't an intrinsic listed by a scroll of great identify. AoPR and
AoPFC are both listed as having no effect.
And are you sure it didn't protect you? There's only _resistance_, after
all, even with an AoPR a gorgon's breath can still kill you.
Sam Blanning
Jukka Kuusisto <jkuu...@gamma.hut.fi> wrote in message
news:jkuusist....@snakemail.hut.fi...
Therefore the Banshee is not an insta-kill because you can be faced with her
but not die, sickness is not an insta-kill because you can see something
that causes sickness but not be hit by it and you can survive it if they do,
GMs in the DH are not insta-kills because you can see them and run away,
etc...
There are, I will admit, 2 insta-deaths: the more damaging door and floor
traps. But it only takes a few levels before you have enough HP to survive
them, unless you've been badly beaten up which wasn't the trap's fault.
Sam Blanning
> ac...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca wrote:
>
> > With the exceptions of Gorgons and Nuurag, once you get to the midgame,
it's
> > hard to find insta-deaths. Most insta-deaths in ADOM occur early on;
everyone
> > has lost characters to stone block/fireball traps or those *$#@(#ing pit
> > vipers (have I ever mentioned how much I hatehatehate pit vipers?), but
I've
> > never had an insta-death after around level 10 or so.
>
> I just had one yesterday, in the Mana Temple: having just killed
> Nuurag, I was trying to clear a space to step over there and pick up
> the orb when the last remaining annihilator destroyed my girdle of
> greed. I was instantly crushed to death by about nine million or so gold
> pieces. Completely unexpected, but...
>
get to the Mana Temple I'm not going back up until I *spoiler* the
*spoiler*.
Michele Furno
> And are you sure it didn't protect you? There's only _resistance_, after
> all, even with an AoPR a gorgon's breath can still kill you.
Well, I think that protection from construct protects only from golems and
statues (the 'Y's), not from gorgons....
Bye.
--
Michele.
Malte Helmert
> >> > > being petrified by a gorgon.
>
> Or you can just avoid them. Gorgons are not dangerous creatures, except for
> their special attack. Darkness, teleport, slow monster (if you feel lucky),
> just outrunning them, wand of door creation, missiles from a
> non-direct line square, wand of monster creation to give them a
> distraction... that's 8 ways in 30 seconds, none of them complicated or
> hard to acquire. Since you won't see gorgons outside the DH before level 30 or
> so, at least, any of those should be good.
Not sure about the last comment, I once met a gorgon in the arena with a quite
low-level character. It was a bit faster than me (114 I think), so outrunning it
was not an option. So basically I just teleported the beast away with my wand and
avoided the level for the rest of the game, until I found an amulet of
petrification resistance.
I definitely agree that gorgons aren't too unfair. I've never died to one, and in
fact you must be very unlucky for this to happen if you're extremely cautious.
Malte
Zaxx
Michele Furno <grey...@galactica.it> wrote in message :
knDl6.3482$Op3.2...@news4.aus1.giganews.com...
> "Sam Blanning" <enqu...@nationalcoursingclub.freeserve.co.uk> ha scritto
> nel messaggio news:976rv5$mv0$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> > I did, but it's already been explained that if you hear *THUMB* sounds
> then
> > you don't walk diagonally round corners.
>
> I ALREADY EXPLAINED that I DIDN'T walk diagonally...
> I even made a little drawing of the scene :(((((
> It was an L shaped corridor and this was the situation:
>
> # . #
> # . #
> #&#####
> #@ . . . .
> #######
>
> You see? I didn't walk diagonally.
> Then it was its turn, it smashed me into many little pieces....
Yeah, you were unlucky to face a smart GM who wore boots of sneakiness to
avoid making *THUMB* noises and waited behind a corner to smash the head of
the first adventurer who will come his way...
Zaxx
The Wanderer <thewa...@crosslink.net> wrote in message :
3A978D3E...@crosslink.net...
> ac...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca wrote:
>
> > With the exceptions of Gorgons and Nuurag, once you get to the midgame,
it's
> > hard to find insta-deaths. Most insta-deaths in ADOM occur early on;
everyone
> > has lost characters to stone block/fireball traps or those *$#@(#ing pit
> > vipers (have I ever mentioned how much I hatehatehate pit vipers?), but
I've
> > never had an insta-death after around level 10 or so.
>
> I just had one yesterday, in the Mana Temple: having just killed
> Nuurag, I was trying to clear a space to step over there and pick up
> the orb when the last remaining annihilator destroyed my girdle of
> greed. I was instantly crushed to death by about nine million or so gold
> pieces. Completely unexpected, but...
LOL! That's why greed is a capital sin :)
Michele Furno
news:97bk2v$1f3r$1...@news5.isdnet.net...
> Yeah, you were unlucky to face a smart GM who wore boots of sneakiness to
> avoid making *THUMB* noises and waited behind a corner to smash the head
of
> the first adventurer who will come his way...
Maybe I wasn't paying attention but I'm pretty sure I heard the first
*THUMB* when I already was in the middle of the level.
Bye.
--
Michele.
Barry Kearns
> Ok, for the third time in this thread I explain that it is not too hard to
> turn around a corner (in a L or U or H-shaped corridor) and discover that
> you're toe to toe with a monster; usually it's a normal monster you can
> handle, but when this happens with a GM and you're a spellcaster the result
> is an insta-death unless it miss you.
No, this is certainly not an insta-death...
s
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Why not use your wand of teleportation to remove yourself from the situation?
You *are* fetching the guaranteed one well before getting anywhere that a GM
could show up, aren't you?
(And the guaranteed one is still available in the current gamma, I'm
assuming...)
A lack of planning on your part should not properly be considered an
"insta-death" on the game's part.
Getting hit with a breath weapon from an OFF-SCREEN monster with no warning,
which results in your character dying the first turn it happens..... now
THAT'S an insta-death. ADOM has far fewer of those (especially for mid to
higher level characters) than any roguelike I've played, in my experience.
> Ehm... sorry if this seems rude, but i'm not going to explain this anymore;
> what I write for if no-one read my previous messages?
Why assume that if people are not accepting your assertions, that they must
not be reading what you wrote?
Barry Kearns
bke...@frii.com
Sam Blanning
Barry Kearns <bke...@frii.com> wrote in message
news:nTem6.24$T3.170...@news.frii.net...
Yes. But... what if you don't have a scroll/wand of item detection or a
spell/spare scroll of magic mapping?
>
> A lack of planning on your part should not properly be considered an
> "insta-death" on the game's part.
It's not a lack of planning to not be able to get that wand. It's a lack of
luck.
>
> Getting hit with a breath weapon from an OFF-SCREEN monster with no
warning,
> which results in your character dying the first turn it happens..... now
> THAT'S an insta-death. ADOM has far fewer of those (especially for mid to
> higher level characters) than any roguelike I've played, in my experience.
I don't think I've ever been breathed on by a monster that was off-screen. I
did have one death similar... I was walking through the wilderness when I
was ambushed by an air elemental, which breathed as soon as the fight
started and instantly killed me. But I don't view it as in insta-death
because it wasn't instant. If I'd had more HP or more shock resistance I'd
have survived.
And besides, I'd just screwed up by getting a RoDS from Waldenbrook... and
then using it while it was uncursed. My 2nd of 8 possible wishes in my
ADOMing life, 3 of which I've actually received, only 2 of which I've
actually used properly. 1/4. Not a good record.
Sam Blanning
Amulets of protection from undead don't lessen damage from undead though,
they protect against undead attacks like paralysis.
Chris Subich
To be fair, it is a little difficult to get, as I seem to remember, without
magic map and teleport control.
>
>A lack of planning on your part should not properly be considered an
>"insta-death" on the game's part.
>
>Getting hit with a breath weapon from an OFF-SCREEN monster with no warning,
>which results in your character dying the first turn it happens..... now
>THAT'S an insta-death. ADOM has far fewer of those (especially for mid to
>higher level characters) than any roguelike I've played, in my experience.
I see that someone has some issues with *band's... :)
--
Chris # csubich@g-d-i-.-n-e-t
# (remove dashes to email)
"... it is difficult to see any net benefit to consumers from
having a pretty picture that may cause their computer to hang"
- Lee A. Hollaar in Amicus Curiae in DoJ vs. Microsoft