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Best BG books for serious player

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Tapsa

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Feb 26, 2003, 4:04:57 AM2/26/03
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I have only two books, "501 essential backgammon problems" by Bill
Robertie and "Backgammon" by Paul Magriel. I'm looking for 5 to 10 new
books. What are the best ones? BTW, math doesn't scare me :)

Tapsa

Douglas Zare

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Feb 26, 2003, 4:57:53 AM2/26/03
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Tapsa wrote:

In addition to those, you should also get (in no particular order)

Jeremy Bagai, _Classic Backgammon Revisited._
Kit Woolsey and Hal Heinrich, _New Ideas in Backgammon._
Kit Woolsey, _The Backgammon Encyclopedia, Volume 1._
Bill Robertie, _Modern Backgammon._

I should warn you that some of these are most useful to an expert. I don't
recommend that an intermediate attempt any of these four except _The
Backgammon Encyclopedia._

Honorable mentions:

I like Robertie's _Advanced Backgammon_ (2 volumes), but it upsets many
people that many of the solutions are wrong. The analyses are deeper than
those of his _501 Essential Backgammon Problems,_ but the latter doesn't
recommend as many blunders.

Unfortunately I don't think that there is a complete introduction to match
play. Kit Woolsey's _How To Play Tournament Backgammon_ is too short,
little more than a pamphlet, and I don't think it is his best writing on
the subject. More common than trying to understand how to handle an 8-cube
at 11-away 19-away is trying to understand the nuances of the 5 point
match, and he wrote an excellent introduction to that in his magazine,
Gammonline.com . Actually, I think Gammonline and GammonVillage (and some
defunct publications) are better than any one book.

Kleinman has written a lot of interesting stuff, although much of it is
entertaining or of historical interest rather than helpful. The canonical
book of his is _Vision Laughs at Counting_ (2 volumes), but even that is
dilute if you are studying to be a player. Some of his ideas have been
reiterated and further developed by others, so if you don't read all of
his books you might see the ideas elsewhere.

There are many annotated matches available. I couldn't choose any
particular set as essential. You can also find many online, although when
an expert explains what the game plan is, what the goals are, what to
watch for at that match score, or otherwise explains why a move is right,
it is much more helpful than just getting some numbers from a bot. I think
Kit Woolsey's commentary is generally accurate and insightful, but there
are some other good annotations, too.

There are many books with lower target audiences, or which are more
specialized. Also, I haven't read through the entire backgammon literature
yet, so I might have missed a gem or two.

By the way, I've ordered many of these titles from Carol Joy Cole:
http://homepage.interaccess.com/~chipoint/Boutique.html

Douglas Zare

moorg

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Feb 26, 2003, 7:20:26 AM2/26/03
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I added a POLL at www.zroundtable.com so people can vote for
their favorite backgammon books. :-)

I enjoy "Problem Books" like Robertie's "501 Essential Problems"
and Jeremy Bagai's "Classic BG Revisited."

BUT -- for "better coverage" of ideas, Robertie's "Advanced BG" books
and Magriel's book are great.

***
Good places to get Books & Merchandise are:
The SHOP at
www.AcePointClub.com

and Carol Joy Cole's shop
http://homepage.interaccess.com/~chipoint/Boutique.html

***

Good luck!

"Tapsa" <tap...@suomi24.fi> wrote in message
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Liz Barker, Gammonitis

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Feb 26, 2003, 9:58:49 AM2/26/03
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Yes, yes, yes to all of the above

But one that hasn't been mentioned yet is the new "Improve Your Backgammon"
by Paul Lamford

Recently reviewed for the Gammonitis magazine Make Your Point by Gavin
Crawley he says "if you want to get the most out of every pip and you are
willing to put in some serious effort then Improve Your Backgammon has a lot
of useful ideas and is well worth Ł12.99".

Crawley also states that "the authors assume the reader is willing put a bit
of time and effort into examining complex positions and memorising tables
and formulae".

I think it's a definite must for a serious player.

Available from the Gammonitis Shop at www.gammonitis.com
Also Amazon and BIBA

"Tapsa" <tap...@suomi24.fi> wrote in message
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Tapio Palmroth

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Feb 26, 2003, 3:19:35 PM2/26/03
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Moro ,

as you are in Finland the closest good place to get any book or whatever
relating to backgammon is surely Chris Ternell's
www.bgshop.com
in Denmark , they come fast over and of course you can ask Chris's
recommendations .

check for finnish bg-page and forum to know more :
www.suomenbackgammon.fi

May the luck be on your side !

tapio

----- Original Message -----

Tapsa <tap...@suomi24.fi> kirjoitti
viestissä:f478e71c.03022...@posting.google.com...

Michael Sullivan

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Mar 4, 2003, 10:13:10 PM3/4/03
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Douglas Zare <za...@math.columbia.edu> wrote:

> Jeremy Bagai, _Classic Backgammon Revisited._
> Kit Woolsey and Hal Heinrich, _New Ideas in Backgammon._
> Kit Woolsey, _The Backgammon Encyclopedia, Volume 1._
> Bill Robertie, _Modern Backgammon._
>
> I should warn you that some of these are most useful to an expert. I don't
> recommend that an intermediate attempt any of these four except _The
> Backgammon Encyclopedia._

I see the terms expert and intermediate thrown around all the time, but
I've never really gotten a handle on what people think they mean.

Do you consider yourself an expert? Presumably, since you read and
recommend those books.

At what FIBS rating would you draw this line? Or does it depend on
something more (other) than playing strength?

Michael

Hub

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Mar 5, 2003, 1:04:26 AM3/5/03
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> Douglas Zare <za...@math.columbia.edu> wrote:
>
> > Jeremy Bagai, _Classic Backgammon Revisited._
> > Kit Woolsey and Hal Heinrich, _New Ideas in Backgammon._
> > Kit Woolsey, _The Backgammon Encyclopedia, Volume 1._
> > Bill Robertie, _Modern Backgammon._
> >
> > I should warn you that some of these are most useful to an expert. I
don't
> > recommend that an intermediate attempt any of these four except _The
> > Backgammon Encyclopedia._
>
> I see the terms expert and intermediate thrown around all the time, but
> I've never really gotten a handle on what people think they mean.
>
> At what FIBS rating would you draw this line? Or does it depend on
> something more (other) than playing strength?

I consider myself an Intermediate player (currently 1736 on Gamesgrid), and
I've read those 3 so-called "expert" books, and a BUNCH more - 17 BG books
in the last year alone actually. How else can someone become an expert
without being exposed to all the highest levels of thinking? Ya I'll
probably need to read them all again several times to really get a handle on
it all, but every book I've read has been quite helpful and enough of it has
stuck so that my game is steadily improving.

So if you're any kind of "serious" player, no matter what skills you think
you have, buy em all, read em all, enjoy them all.. it won't hurt!

FYI, here's the list of stuff I've read:

Backgammon by Paul Magriel (the Bible!)
Advanced Backgammon by Bill Robertie Vols 1 and 2
Modern Backgammon by Bill Robertie
Classic Backgammon Revisited by Jeremy Bagai
Boards, Blots and Double Shots by Norm Wiggins
Vision Laughs at Counting by Danny Kleinman Vols 1 and 2 (Danny is a very
unique BG writer to say the least)
New Ideas in Backgammon by Kit Woolsey and Hal Heinrich
Backgammon: Winning With the Doubling Cube by Peter Bell (Very helpful!)
What Color is the Wind by Chris Bray (a great read!)
How to Play Tournament Backgammon by Kit Woolsey (I still need to memorize
the match equity table)
501 Essential Backgammon Problems by Bill Robertie
100 Backgammon Puzzles by Paul Lamford
Backgammon for Blood by Bruce Becker (as a joke read only, best avoid this
one, but it was the first BG book I ever read in the 70s)
Playboy's Book of Backgammon by Lewis Deyong (yes I looked at the pictures,
very funny stories)
and Improve Your Backgammon by Paul Lamford (just got it, great so far).

So bout half of those books are probably classified as "expert only" but
don't let that stop you if you're serious about improving your game.

Besides the book reading, the other things that have helped me the most are
playing in chouette games, listening to people debate different plays and
see what works.. And (yes its expensive but worth it to me) having Snowie
analyze your matches and point out all the errors and blunders with checker
and cube play. More great reading can be found with subscriptions to
www.gammonline.com and www.gammonvillage.com

Great game!

L8r.. Allen (Hub on gamesgrid)


Douglas Zare

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Mar 5, 2003, 9:42:46 AM3/5/03
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Hub wrote:

> > Douglas Zare <za...@math.columbia.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > I should warn you that some of these are most useful to an expert. I
> don't
> > > recommend that an intermediate attempt any of these four except _The
> > > Backgammon Encyclopedia._
> >
> > I see the terms expert and intermediate thrown around all the time, but
> > I've never really gotten a handle on what people think they mean.

Some bots assign these terms, I think erroneously. There are too many players
who average what Snowie calls a "World Class" level of play to call them all
world class. Gnu has seemed even more generous, though perhaps this has changed.

Note also that bots are biased toward bot-like play, and make a lot of the same
mistakes, while avoiding some mistakes that almost all human players make. When
a weak bot is called an expert by a strong bot, the weaker bot may be making all
of the stronger bot's mistakes, plus many more, hence might not be as strong as
a human player who is also called an expert by the stronger bot.

> > At what FIBS rating would you draw this line? Or does it depend on
> > something more (other) than playing strength?

When I played on FIBS, some people said that up to 1800 would be considered
advanced, and perhaps 1800-1900 expert. Perhaps it has gotten easier to achieve
a higher rating on FIBS through honest play, but there are people with ratings
higher than 1900 that I don't consider to be backgammon experts.

In addition to playing strength, I also expect an expert to have an
understanding of certain fundamental concepts and principles, and to be familiar
with executing various game plans.

In my first column on GammonVillage, I described myself as a backgammon expert.
The point was not to blow my own horn (or to pretend to have a lower
rating/higher error rate), but to say that my mathematical analysis would be
backed up by a real understanding of the game of backgammon. Kleinman's analysis
sometimes is, and sometime isn't.

> I consider myself an Intermediate player (currently 1736 on Gamesgrid), and
> I've read those 3 so-called "expert" books, and a BUNCH more - 17 BG books
> in the last year alone actually. How else can someone become an expert
> without being exposed to all the highest levels of thinking? Ya I'll
> probably need to read them all again several times to really get a handle on
> it all, but every book I've read has been quite helpful and enough of it has
> stuck so that my game is steadily improving.
>
> So if you're any kind of "serious" player, no matter what skills you think
> you have, buy em all, read em all, enjoy them all.. it won't hurt!

In _New Ideas in Backgammon,_ many problems are about when it is right to make
deep points, to volunteer shots, to kill checkers, to break anchor, and other
strange plays. The problems were selected to be those in which experts were
wrong in applying heuristics that work much of the time. Studying exceptions too
early may encourage you to volunteer shots or kill checkers when these are
blunders that few experts would make.

I have stated, "6/4(2) is always right." The context is when you are considering
playing 1-1 and have already made your 5 point, and have two spares on your 6
point. 6/4(2) is almost always better than doing multiple good things with
8/7(2) 6/5 24/23, though at times 24/22(2) is better. If you aren't used to the
idea that most of the time, doing two good things is better than doing one good
thing, or if you can't recognize the context, my statement has less impact.

Intermediate players might be able to get ideas out of books aimed at experts,
but they might find books with lower target audiences to be clearer. Other books
focus on fundamental principles, giving clear examples of the applicability of
those principles, rather than bringing up several conflicting principles plus
tactical nuances. If you give the problems in the last 2/3 of _New Ideas_ to
experts, I think even now they will bat less than 50%.

Douglas Zare

A_C

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Mar 5, 2003, 11:40:16 AM3/5/03
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Hi

My advice is read them in the right order, some of the expert books
are not good reading for intermediate players.

By the way you dont have too read books, too play like an expert, but
its more fun.

/A_C on fibs julebryk on gamesgrid

Dave Hayes

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Mar 8, 2003, 9:46:52 AM3/8/03
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I don't know if it is still in print, I don't remember who wrote it. Has
anyone read Backgammon for Blood.

"Tapsa" <tap...@suomi24.fi> wrote in message
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Gus

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Mar 8, 2003, 11:14:14 AM3/8/03
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If you are just learning the game and want to beat other people who are
just learning the game, this is the book for you!

However... if you consistently practice the moves in that book, better
players will consistently beat you.

"Dave Hayes" <dmch...@iNOSPAMdirect.com> wrote in message
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tanglebear

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Mar 16, 2003, 2:27:58 PM3/16/03
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A_C said

> My advice is read them in the right order, some of the expert books
> are not good reading for intermediate players.

Good advice. I an intermediate player, and when I read articles that
are too advanced, my game actually gets worse. I think the problem is I
don't have enough of a foundation to apply the advanced ideas in the
right places.

tanglebear

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Mar 17, 2003, 1:24:17 AM3/17/03
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Douglas Zare said

> I like Robertie's _Advanced Backgammon_ (2 volumes), but it upsets many
> people that many of the solutions are wrong.

Is there a page some place that lists the errors. Then someone could
just mark where the errors are and read the rest.

Christian Kopmann

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Mar 17, 2003, 4:15:14 AM3/17/03
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Bagai's Book "Classic Backgammon Revisited" lists all errors ( > 0,05).
Christian Kopmann

Kees van den Doel

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Mar 17, 2003, 7:43:54 AM3/17/03
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In article <oprl59bo...@news.online.de>,

And my cat hates mice.

The requested info is available at:

http://www.pmms.cam.ac.uk/~gjm11/bgm

After reading this I found it hard to develop enthousiasm for a strategy
which results in wrong moves.


Kees (Do you memorize them regularly I believe, throwing it outside
tehran I stopped flaming back for M aarten.)

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