Questions about Bali Terrorist Attack
Yu
USA.
Taiwan cabinet met on Friday evening to discuss the matter.
Taiwan at that time had about 1000 tourists in Bali.
http://www.ettoday.com/2002/10/14/91-1363095.htm
If that was the case why didn't USA warn the tourists in Bali about an
emminent attack?
Nush must be longing for it to happen so that he can use it drum up
international support for his attack on Iraq.
Demorising
Duh... US warned many countries ...maybe you better get informed before you
make any more accusations.
Harrison X. Numbugger
Yu wrote:
>
> According to Taiwan Gov official, they were tipped off on Friday by
> USA.
> Taiwan cabinet met on Friday evening to discuss the matter.
> Taiwan at that time had about 1000 tourists in Bali.
> http://www.ettoday.com/2002/10/14/91-1363095.htm
>
> If that was the case why didn't USA warn the tourists in Bali about an
> emminent attack?
>
it was probably a US operation.
> Nush must be longing for it to happen so that he can use it drum up
> international support for his attack on Iraq.
--
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That
is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and
denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the
country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Herman
Goering (second in command to Adolf Hitler) at the Nuremberg Trials
"Today Christians ... stand at the head of Germany ... I pledge that I
never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity ..
We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want
to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the
theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison
of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as
a result of liberal excess during the past ... (few) years." - Hitler
*The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford
University
Press, 1942), pg. 871-872.
Yu
> Yu wrote:
> >According to Taiwan Gov official, they were tipped off on Friday by
> >USA.
> >Taiwan cabinet met on Friday evening to discuss the matter.
> >Taiwan at that time had about 1000 tourists in Bali.
> >http://www.ettoday.com/2002/10/14/91-1363095.htm
> >
> >If that was the case why didn't USA warn the tourists in Bali about an
> >emminent attack?
> >
> >international support for his attack on Iraq.
> >
>
> Duh... US warned many countries ...maybe you better get informed before you
> make any more accusations.
I took your advise and checked.
Taiwan Gov said, US asked Taiwan to keep secret the warning.
There must be a lot that they knew about otherwise they would not have
a meeting to discuss it.
Mahakala
"Harrison X. Numbugger" <hnumb...@impeachbush.now> wrote in message
news:3DAA9F88...@impeachbush.now...
Hitler was considered a good Catholic, according to the pope at the time. It
is amazing how many individuals and lunatic groups hide behind the term
'Christianity' to further their own ends, but are obviously not practising
it.
Harbinger
Mr. Mahakala,. At long last, we are in total agreement.
"Mahakala" <Mahaka...@removethis.buddhamail.net> wrote in message
news:QMxq9.1295$hi2...@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
Don Trickle
There was no specificity to the warning.
Jigong
Helsinki, Bali, etc. to win support for American's action on Iraq!
beber
LT Lee
It is getting curiouser and curiouser.
What did the US tell the Taiwan Gov? And what did the US do in the
meantime? Did they also warn the Indonesian Gov?
klmok
news channel. Evacuees are mostly white Australians and some
orientals.
Beeeg question. One takes a holiday in Bali mainly for the tropical
paradise isle image. Then why the frenetic partying at a nightclub
scene that one can go to in any Aussieland town?
In the whole Pacific Ocean there are plenty of beautiful tropical
isles to go to that are less dangerous than a known hot spot like
Indonesia. This inlcudes thousands of miles of beautiful beaches in
Aussieland itself. Indonesia has known Al Queda sympathizers, and
there are a number of other extremeist Muslim factions that the
Indonesian is unable to control and may be endangered itself through
insurrection. The US Embassy and other US installations in Indonesia
are on heightened alert even before this bombing for there were
earlier attempts to bomb them. Lots of warning bells going off. Why?
Similarly places like Israel, Egypt, Yemen, East Africa, Pakistan and
India seem to attract hardy western tourists because they are bored
with the well travelled tourist spots. They don't anticipate the
excitement they cause when they get the attention of anti-western
natives.
All in all well- to- do westerners are generally incapable of
understanding that they are not immune to the hatred felt towards
their governments' policies on the Middle East.
Peter L
Australians go to Bali because it is close and it is cheap.
"klmok" <kl...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:3dab1151....@shawnews.ed.shawcable.net...
Secret Squirrel
>According to Taiwan Gov official, they were tipped off on Friday by
>USA.
>Taiwan cabinet met on Friday evening to discuss the matter.
>Taiwan at that time had about 1000 tourists in Bali.
>http://www.ettoday.com/2002/10/14/91-1363095.htm
>
>If that was the case why didn't USA warn the tourists in Bali about an
>emminent attack?
>
>international support for his attack on Iraq.
You dumb butt! ;-) Bali got bombed and Taiwan got tipped off by US
intelligence beforehand? Doesn't that sound bizarre to you?
Everything is done by "terrorists" these days. My neighbor got a flat
tire and it must be done by "terrorists". "anti-terrorism" is currently
the fashionable term for Anglo aggression and colonization. If it is
not apparent to you since you are coming back to Beijing, "anti-
terrorism" is being used by Anglo imperialists to CIRCLE China with
massive military buildup. Taiwan is the only place US/UK have yet built
up non-franchise military bases. Not that they dont want to for any
reason, but that Mainland has covered Taiwan province with enough
Chinese invented rockets now used not just fun. While TIers are dumb
ass thinking Mainland rockets are aiming at them, they are wrong again.
burger k
But why US told it to Taiwan?
1000 tourists are not so many in Bali.
Mahakala
"Harbinger" <ape...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aoebbv$sgi$1...@nobel.pacific.net.sg...
> One has to be discerning and able to see wolf in sheep's skin
>
> Mr. Mahakala,. At long last, we are in total agreement.
>
>
Nothing is impossible. And I believe that many readers would agree with both
of us. If we expound far, then we risk flame wars.
Mahakala
"Jigong" <jigong...@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:3DAADDE1...@rocketmail.com...
> For all you know, CIA could be the one creating such bloody incidents in
> Helsinki, Bali, etc. to win support for American's action on Iraq!
>
CONGRATULATIONS! WE HAVE A WINNER! This is by far the stupidest thing said
in this group. Go buy yourself a biscuit.
Joe
http://babelfish.altavista.com
So here is the complete translation of the Taiwanese's Article:
"Inside. Detonation...... Doubts the government not.. Any 2002/10/14
11:12 Ni. Auspicious / Taibei..
Indonesia. Inside.. Fresh. Resembles the terror attacks. Detonation
event.... Stands the courtyard..14 dates morning. Refers. Executive
Yuan. Swims... He beforehand know the circumstances of the matter. Not
beforehand informs 1000. The passenger, represents the government
basis. Has. To guarantees. People. No matter what. The Shen wisdom
shouts. Government. Fast.. Inside. Row. High danger. People... Goes.
Inside. Takes removes. Ok.
Indonesia. Inside.. The fresh terror detonation event, creates 100.
Person. Perishes. Also has 1 person of whereabouts is unclear.
Morning. This table.. Cuts. People.. 3.. Summons the Shen wisdom.
Summons Li.... Matter.. Article male, as well as. Guards against.
Matter.. Sets up committee forest Yu Fang Du refers. The government is
not friendly. Guarantees. People. No matter what. People.... Li all
teaches also.. The government loses.
Person and so on Shen wisdom points out, Executive Yuan. Swims... He
as early as in 11th evening. Has known, if this matter. Really,
instead fears on behalf of the government.. Extremely successful,
principle.. One great merit, but since beforehand knows. What. Has
beforehand informs. Inside.. Plays 1000. Affiliation passenger? What.
Has the arrangement removes. Matters concerned, even. Arrangement...
Quick. The passenger meets, therefore.. Quilt. Previous one is big.
Forest Yu Fang Ye.. Proclaims... Inside. Row. High danger. Really
至要. Partial. South. Row. Danger. People.. Do not have to
go. Places.. Early. The principle removes. Line. Lin Yu Fang..
Beautiful.. Law. All already.. Inside. And is partial. Continent. The
family arranges in order. Danger. Example. Bright government. Some do.
People..... Li Quan Jiao also. Doubts the government beforehand knows
the circumstances of the matter. What. Has the matter
先告.. People or. Affiliation passenger? He shout. The
government had been established instead fears small. Because.. Inside.
Detonation event. Does not show. In is beautiful. World is all
possible. Lives the terrorist event. Li Quan Jiao also. Heart..
Whether the people does suffer injury? He hope Ministry of Foreign
Affairs. Committee... Light bureau.... Looks up the understanding and.
Cuts. People..
"
...and here are the rest of the part in RED
"* Accident. Harms does not want. Lucky avoids disaster has. Road *
占星 evil spirit law room * good luck palm.. * Mysterious
appearance. * You have " 吉人天相 "? *
Sickness. The divine * fades the god upper body.... * Egresses. Purple
micro fights. Considers. You? * Whether has. The person helps one
another? * Has how only then energy. Lucky evades. *.. " ETtoday
fortune-telling week." Goes to * 神算 the prophet " the ET
fortune-telling big street " the god. "
....................
I hoped I didn't missed anything while copying and pasting texts. Ok,
I am going to post this article now and I am going to read it.
Hopefully, this translator did a good job. Well, it looks right to
me.
klmok
wrote:
>Australia's policy towards the Middle East? What policy?
>
>Australians go to Bali because it is close and it is cheap.
>
>
True. But are the terrorists going to ask a white guy's nationality
and political persuation first before blowing him up? No. White is
white and all whites are the same to him. Boom. They got GW's
attention. That's all that counts.
Jim Walsh
The murder of tourist, regardless of skin color, serves no rational
purpose, religious or political.
The Taliban are not bragging about having gotten GW's attention.
--
Love, Jim
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klmok
wrote:
>
>The murder of tourist, regardless of skin color, serves no rational
>purpose, religious or political.
>
>The Taliban are not bragging about having gotten GW's attention.
>
Love Jim, do follow up the news a bit more before chiming in.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/011213/5/fo6w.html
Arabs Split Over Bin Laden Video; Some Call It Fake.
Its Osama aka Al Queda that claims responsibility and righteous
revenge, not the Taliban (Afghan fall guys.)
The people who planted the Bali bomb will certainly disagree with you.
Likewise Palestinian human bombers. I suppose in your book, if you
kill with smart bombs from 30,000 feet, then it is acceptable for
religious or political purposes. When the US and Israel kill and maim
hundreds, perhaps thousands over the years of high tech bombing, they
are defending democracy and freedom. When the recipients of US and
Israeli bombs fight back with crude weapons because that's all they
have, they are terrorists.
Neither side is right. But the initiative to stop the carnage lies
with the US
Yu
It's very how this machine work.
"swim" is the name of Taiwan Primier (you si kun).
"wisdom" is the name of a lady legislator (zhi hui).
"forest" is the surmane of another male legislator (lin).
"passanger" in the passage was actually tourists.
"Light bureau" is Tourist Board. This is really funny!
"The government had been established instead fears small" actually
means:calling on the gov to establish a anti-terrorist committee.
Yu
> I hoped I didn't missed anything while copying and pasting texts. Ok,
> I am going to post this article now and I am going to read it.
> Hopefully, this translator did a good job. Well, it looks right to
> me.
It's very funny how this machine work.
"swim" is the name of Taiwan Primier (you si kun).
"wisdom" is the name of a lady legislator (zhi hui).
"forest" is the surmane of another male legislator (lin).
"passanger" in the passage was actually tourists.
"Light bureau" is Tourist Board. This is really funny!
"The government had been established instead fears small" actually
means: calling on the gov to establish a anti-terrorist committee.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Walsh
> On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:12:16 +0800, "Jim Walsh" <jimw...@ebtnet.net>
> wrote:
>>The murder of tourist, regardless of skin color, serves no rational
>>purpose, religious or political.
>>
>>The Taliban are not bragging about having gotten GW's attention.
> Love Jim, do follow up the news a bit more before chiming in.
I said what I said. As a consequence of getting GW's attention (and as a
direct consequence of not turning Bin Laden over to America for trial) the
Taliban are scattered; lots of them are dead and they no longer rule
Afganistan.
Anyone who regards these as reasons to brag need to have their head
examined.
> Neither side is right. But the initiative to stop the carnage lies with
> the US.
Really? What exactly would you have the USA do to stop the carnage?
Secret Squirrel
wrote:
>Australia's policy towards the Middle East? What policy?
No policy needed. Just do whatever UK/UK tell it to do. You thinks
Anglo Imperialists sailed the long way to Australia, killed the
natives, colonized the land for nothing?
>Australians go to Bali because it is close and it is cheap.
Cheap fuck?
Wing C Ng
klmok <kl...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:12:16 +0800, "Jim Walsh" <jimw...@ebtnet.net>
>wrote:
>
>
>>
>>The murder of tourist, regardless of skin color, serves no rational
>>purpose, religious or political.
>>
>>The Taliban are not bragging about having gotten GW's attention.
>>
>
>
>Love Jim, do follow up the news a bit more before chiming in.
>
>http://ca.news.yahoo.com/011213/5/fo6w.html
>
>Arabs Split Over Bin Laden Video; Some Call It Fake.
>
>Its Osama aka Al Queda that claims responsibility and righteous
>revenge, not the Taliban (Afghan fall guys.)
>
>The people who planted the Bali bomb will certainly disagree with you.
>Likewise Palestinian human bombers. I suppose in your book, if you
>kill with smart bombs from 30,000 feet, then it is acceptable for
What Arabs is the U.S. killing from 30,000 feet now??
The only Arabs killed recently was during the Gulf War, and
there was U.N. resolution on rolling back naked aggression.
>religious or political purposes. When the US and Israel kill and maim
>hundreds, perhaps thousands over the years of high tech bombing, they
>are defending democracy and freedom. When the recipients of US and
>Israeli bombs fight back with crude weapons because that's all they
>have, they are terrorists.
Now you are defending the perps of 9/11. Need to say no more.
Wing
beber
wrote:
>
>The murder of tourist, regardless of skin color, serves no rational
>purpose, religious or political.
>
Unless the purpose is getting white people out of your country.
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/80/slick_fingered_boozy_bruce.html
Joe
updated/continued story from a Taiwanese source in English much better
than the other story:
http://www.etaiwannews.com/Taiwan/2002/10/15/1034643430.htm
Here is the complete quote:
"Opposition slams foreign ministry for slow reaction
2002-10-15 / Taiwan News, Staff Reporter / By Jessie Ho
Two opposition parties yesterday expressed dissatisfaction at the
Ministry of Foreign Affairs' reaction to the bomb attack on the
Indonesian resort island of Bali, and they urged the government to
take immediate responsive measures.
Despite the fact that the bombing in Bali caused many deaths and
injuries, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs did not move immediately to
list Indonesia as a highly dangerous area or restrict travel to that
country, but only issued a safety warning to travelers from Taiwan.
Kuomintang legislative leader Lee Chuan-chiao
(燠諒) pointed out that the incident had exposed
the DPP government's poor crisis management skills, particularly in
view of the Executive Yuan's claim that it had, last Friday, obtained
intelligence on a possible terrorist attack in a southeast Asian
Muslim country.
According to Lee, the worst part is that the government did not issue
a warning because the United States government asked it not to
disclose the information.
"The KMT's priority is the safety of our people - not America's
national interests." He also called on the government to establish an
anti-terrorism crisis management team.
Meanwhile, People First Party legislative leader Shen Chih-hwei
(朻秷雌) asked the government to assist in the
return of Taiwan nationals currently in Indonesia. She said she would
like to commend Premier Yu Shyi-kun (蚔屧) for
obtaining advance information on the terrorist attack, but on the
other hand would like to condemn him for not warning the Taiwanese
people to stay away from danger.
"
.........................
Check out the part where the US told the Taiwaneses to kept their
mouths shut.
Jim Walsh
> On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:12:16 +0800, "Jim Walsh" <jimw...@ebtnet.net>
> wrote:
>>The murder of tourist, regardless of skin color, serves no rational
>>purpose, religious or political.
> Unless the purpose is getting white people out of your country.
1. There are no races. There are no "white" people.
2. When the totals are completed, I guess the majority of the dead (or at
least a substantial minority) will be Idonesians whom you would not regard
as "White". What is the message to them?
I repeat, it served no rational purpose.
klmok
>>The people who planted the Bali bomb will certainly disagree with you.
>>Likewise Palestinian human bombers. I suppose in your book, if you
>>kill with smart bombs from 30,000 feet, then it is acceptable for
>
>What Arabs is the U.S. killing from 30,000 feet now??
>
>The only Arabs killed recently was during the Gulf War, and
>there was U.N. resolution on rolling back naked aggression.
>
Oops you caught me here. I am as guilty as anyone else of lumping
together groups of people who look similar but are not. I said ,to
the browns all whites are the same. That all Chinese look alike is an
old cliche'.
The ones the US killed (recently) from 30,000 feet are the Afghans.
They wear loose nondescript clothes, have beards, look arab like. Are
definitely Muslims and above all wear a cloth headgear. If US
rednecks can mistake a Sikh working in a convenience store for a
Taliban or Al Queda (you can make such an ID by just looking??) to
make a drive-by shooting you can understand that when a brown less
educated human bomber takes revenge he's not going to exercise the
finer points of different shades of white.
Love Jim challenges my asseretion that only the US can stop the
carnage. Well who is the one making all the inflamatory statements
against anything Arab or Muslim backed by economic strangulation and
bombs. How else can Israel carry out its murderous campaign if not
for US funding and generous resupply of weapons.
I am not defending anyone as right and another as wrong. But the
present policy only generates more death and destruction and above
all, intense hatred. Its clearly the wrong policy. Only the US has
the wealth and power to change anything. The Muslim's fight is not
the destruction of the US, that's unachievable. Their fight is to
tell the US to lay off interfering what are essentially local affairs
between the various Muslim sects and countries, and between Israel and
her neighbours. The only US interest in these conflicts is oil.
CC Tang
> What Arabs is the U.S. killing from 30,000 feet now??
>
> The only Arabs killed recently was during the Gulf War, and
> there was U.N. resolution on rolling back naked aggression.
Enforcement of the no-fly zones in Northern/Southern Iraq leads to
regular bombings, and consequently the killing of Arabs.
And there is no UN resolution backing such atttacks, although there
are resolutions that "condemn" Iraqi mistreatment of Kurds in the
area... and this is what's used as justification for the attacks.
Eric Chang ~{VY;T~}
Iraqis are arabs? I didn't know that.
Eric
CC Tang
> Iraqis are arabs? I didn't know that.
I don't think you're being fecetious... but just to be clear: yea,
the population of Iraq consists of primarily Arabs (> 80%), and Iraq
is a member of the League of Arab States.
Yu
> > USA.
> > Taiwan cabinet met on Friday evening to discuss the matter.
> > Taiwan at that time had about 1000 tourists in Bali.
> > http://www.ettoday.com/2002/10/14/91-1363095.htm
> >
> > If that was the case why didn't USA warn the tourists in Bali about an
> > emminent attack?
> >
> > Nush must be longing for it to happen so that he can use it drum up
> > international support for his attack on Iraq.
>
I do not know how much they knew.
The entire 20 member cabinet was called to meet on Friday evening.
The attack came on Saturday evening.
Even if they did not know exactly where the terrorist would strike, by
issueing a lot of warnings would frighten off the attackers.
Terrorist are people. They too would be thinking if the police already
knew of the plot it's better lie low.
They would be suspicious of each other since they did not know who
leak the news.
Yu
> updated/continued story from a Taiwanese source in English much better
> than the other story:
>
> http://www.etaiwannews.com/Taiwan/2002/10/15/1034643430.htm
Thanks. Many readers will find this post very helpful.
Christopher Bok
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0210/S00106.htm
Related links to alternative views on the Bali blasts:
http://www.rense.com/general30/tur.htm - There is a comment after the
article.
http://www.rense.com/general30/considerationsonrecent.htm
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steveseymour/nuke/bali_nuke.htm
http://www.halturnershow.com/BaliBombBlast.html
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/headlines_14_10_02.htm
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/thepropagandamatrix.html
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/
http://scoop.co.nz/mason/features/?s=balibomb
Eric Chang ~{VY;T~}
I am genuinely interested to know. I know that Iranians are not
considered Arabs right?
Are the historical Babylonians considered Arabs?
Eric
klmok
<ecc...@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
>>> Iraqis are arabs? I didn't know that.
>
>> I don't think you're being fecetious... but just to be clear: yea,
>> the population of Iraq consists of primarily Arabs (> 80%), and Iraq
>> is a member of the League of Arab States.
>
>I am genuinely interested to know. I know that Iranians are not
>considered Arabs right?
>
>Are the historical Babylonians considered Arabs?
>
I think we are all being factitious about skin colour, looks and what
makes a genuine Arab and a Muslim.
Turks and Iranians look pretty Arab to us and to the rest of the world
who do no live in the Middle East and care little for their troubles .
Turks and Iranians will be the first to insist that they are not
Arabs. Ditto for the Afghans and the Egyptians. Can you make that
distinction as to who is an Arab at five paces?
Shiites and Sunnis have been at each other's throats since prophet
Mohammed died. Can you tell one from the other if you stared at them
in the face?
Chinese Muslims, a religion that had been established in China since
the 7th century and, of which there are more than 10 millions today,
are not considered real Muslims by the "real" Muslims. That's probably
why they have not been recruited to nor is their support sought in
the current fight against the great Satan. Even their (Chinese and
other Asiatic Mongol) pilgrims to Mecca are assiduously ignored in
Islamic publications.
Thus in the current paranoia about Arab and Muslim terrorism anyone
who looks like an Arab, walks like an Arab, quacks like an Arab and
prays five times a day in the direction of Mecca is going to be
treated as a Arab first. And no one is going to stick around to find
out what kind.. That goes for Pakis and Sikhs too plus any number of
dark skinned types who wear a turban or the white cap of a hadji.
Gordon H.
never done any sort of covert operations like undermining governments,
training and funding death squads or any other such types of
despicable acts.
Jim Walsh
wrote:
>That's right Mahakala, the CIA are an honorable organization and have
>never done any sort of covert operations like undermining governments,
>training and funding death squads or any other such types of
>despicable acts.
That's right Gordon H., the fact that the CIA did bad things (like
giving land to air missiles to Afghanistan) is proof that the CIA blew
up a tourist resort in Bali.
[Hint: The above is sarcasm.]
>On Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:04:29 GMT, "Mahakala"
><Mahaka...@removethis.buddhamail.net> wrote:
>
>>"Jigong" <jigong...@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:3DAADDE1...@rocketmail.com...
>>> For all you know, CIA could be the one creating such bloody incidents in
>>> Helsinki, Bali, etc. to win support for American's action on Iraq!
>>>
>>
>>CONGRATULATIONS! WE HAVE A WINNER! This is by far the stupidest thing said
>>in this group. Go buy yourself a biscuit.
Love, Jim
Demorising
>I am genuinely interested to know. I know that Iranians are not
>considered Arabs right?
Simple. Arabs typically speak Arabic. Non-Arabs do not.
Jim Walsh
> Can you make that distinction as to who is an Arab at five paces?
No. No one can, especially if "Arab" is defined in terms of "mother
language". No one can determine the language one spoke with ones mother
from merely looking.
BTW, you once claimed to be able to tell Chinese from Japanese just by
looking. It seems you are making progress.
klmok
wrote:
>On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:42:16 +0000, klmok wrote:
>
>> Can you make that distinction as to who is an Arab at five paces?
>
>No. No one can, especially if "Arab" is defined in terms of "mother
>language". No one can determine the language one spoke with ones mother
>from merely looking.
>
>BTW, you once claimed to be able to tell Chinese from Japanese just by
>looking. It seems you are making progress.
>
Orientals and Whites I can tell them apart quite easily.
Latinos, uhuh.
African blacks, as those from the the North Sahara are quite different
from the Sub-Sahara. Ethoipians and Somalis are diffferent. From the
Congo all the way west to Senegal they look quite alike to me - real
black, thick lips, very curly hair, etc. Zulus and those from Ziare
down to the South I put into another group.
But Arabs and other Middle East Muslims I never really bothered to
tell them apart as I usually use their clothes and headwear to tell
the difference. There isn't really that much that is interesting in
Arabs and Muslims with their loos clothes and dirty beards. They
would appreciate this anonymity and indifference, especially from
America.
Jim Walsh
> On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:49:02 +0800, "Jim Walsh" <jimw...@ebtnet.net>
> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:42:16 +0000, klmok wrote:
>>
>>> Can you make that distinction as to who is an Arab at five paces?
>>
>>No. No one can, especially if "Arab" is defined in terms of "mother
>>language". No one can determine the language one spoke with ones mother
>>from merely looking.
>>
>>BTW, you once claimed to be able to tell Chinese from Japanese just by
>>looking. It seems you are making progress.
>>
>>
>>
> Orientals and Whites I can tell them apart quite easily.
Well, no you can't. You just don't have a lot of experience with people
who live on the border between them.
> Latinos, uhuh.
>
> African blacks, as those from the the North Sahara are quite different
> from the Sub-Sahara. Ethoipians and Somalis are diffferent. From the
> Congo all the way west to Senegal they look quite alike to me - real
> black, thick lips, very curly hair, etc. Zulus and those from Ziare
> down to the South I put into another group.
What actually happens is a relatively smooth continuous change, with no
marked discontinuity.
> But Arabs and other Middle East Muslims. I never really bothered to tell
> them apart as I usually use their clothes and headwear to tell the
> difference.
> There isn't really that much that is interesting in Arabs and Muslims
> with their loos clothes and dirty beards.
Don't be a bigot.
Brian Jackson
yug...@yahoo.com (Yu) wrote:
>demor...@aol.com (Demorising) wrote in message news:<20021014025836...@mb-mr.aol.com>...
>> Yu wrote:
>>>According to Taiwan Gov official, they were tipped off on Friday by
>>>USA.
>>>Taiwan cabinet met on Friday evening to discuss the matter.
>>>Taiwan at that time had about 1000 tourists in Bali.
>>>http://www.ettoday.com/2002/10/14/91-1363095.htm
>>>If that was the case why didn't USA warn the tourists in Bali about an
>>>emminent attack?
The extent of your paranoid conspiracy fantasies about the "Anglo/US
alliance" is really astounding. This one takes the cake. Who will buy
this idea apart from the Hal Turner show and a few conspiracy
websites? Oh I see, that's why you sent it to alt.politics.bush!
>>>Bush must be longing for it to happen so that he can use it drum up
>>>international support for his attack on Iraq.
Longing for it to happen? If you really believe this, you are too far
gone already, lost in your own maze of hatred. If you were listening,
the discourse over the past few days is more along the opposite line -
that this incident will put the global terrorist jihad networks back
on top of the priority list, and if anything will detract from the
Iraq issue. Bush himself showed this effect by having to stress that
"We can do both." He would have preferred to keep the focus on Saddam.
>>Duh... US warned many countries ...maybe you better get informed before you
>>make any more accusations.
Don't hold your breath on that. Anything that looks like it could be
fashioned into a club to hit his main boogeymen ("Anglo/US-CIA-MI5-
BBC-TI-etc.-Alliance") will be used.
>I took your advise and checked.
>Taiwan Gov said, US asked Taiwan to keep secret the warning.
This is simply not credible at all. US has been issuing public
warnings about potential danger to foreigners in Indonesia for months.
Even more so in the past month, thought to be the result of
information extracted from a terrorist organiser arrested in Java in
June, and quietly turned over to the US for interogation at Bagram (he
is not Indonesian, but an Afghan who was living there). State Dept.
warnings specifically cautioned about gathering at bars and discos
following a renewed campaign last month by the Islamic Defenders Front
to destroy discos and billiard halls etc. in the run up to Ramadan
month.
On Oct. 11 the US embassy in Jakarta issued yet another heightened
alert along the same lines, with general application across the
country. Nothing specific about Bali. The ambassador yet again asked
the government for improved security for the embassy, and warned them
that he was prepared to send all embassy families home if there was no
improvement by Oct. 24. The same warning of increased risk was passed
to Australia as well, but sloppy reporting led some Australians to
think that the warning was specific to Bali - it was not. Australia
did not upgrade its own warnings to citizens, because they already had
a recently issued strong warning out covering all Indonesia. But
because of this perception that the Aus gov't had been "warned about
Bali" in advance by the US, they had to defend against the same kind
of suspicion you are advancing here. Aus officials have been pretty
candid about what the warnings were, and what they were not.
And in this candour from the Aussies the past few days, came the
revelation that in fact, several US embassy Jakarta families were
actually *in* Bali last weekend taking a holiday. Your theory that the
US knew in advance of the Bali bombing, that Bush was "longing for it
to happen", that they told Taiwan gov't about the plan and asked them
to keep it quiet in order to help Bush with the Iraq issue...... I
mean, do you ever listen to yourself sometimes? It's beyond stupid,
but sad to say it fits your general pattern.
Brian
--
"You take the lies out of them, and they'll shrink to the size of your hat,
you take the malice out of them, and they will disappear." - Mark Twain
Secret Squirrel
>"Eric Chang ~{VY;T~}" <ecc...@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote in
message news:<aoho2r$315u$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>...
>
>I don't think you're being fecetious... but just to be clear: yea,
>the population of Iraq consists of primarily Arabs (> 80%), and Iraq
>is a member of the League of Arab States.
And "Jesus is Arab too" would make those BANANAs convert to Islam from
Christianity?
Eric Chang ~{VY;T~}
(1) Jesus is not Arab.
(2) Stop being a racist. Christianity is not restricted to whites, just
like Buddhism is not restricted to Indians.
Eric
Yu
> In article <f0abc8cb.02101...@posting.google.com>,
> yug...@yahoo.com (Yu) wrote:
> >demor...@aol.com (Demorising) wrote in message news:<20021014025836...@mb-mr.aol.com>...
> This is simply not credible at all. US has been issuing public
> warnings about potential danger to foreigners in Indonesia for months.
> Even more so in the past month, thought to be the result of
> information extracted from a terrorist organiser arrested in Java in
> June, and quietly turned over to the US for interogation at Bagram (he
> is not Indonesian, but an Afghan who was living there). State Dept.
> warnings specifically cautioned about gathering at bars and discos
> following a renewed campaign last month by the Islamic Defenders Front
> to destroy discos and billiard halls etc. in the run up to Ramadan
> month.
You have to distinguish between general warning and special red alert.
General warnings are the kind of warning people put on notice boards
and nobody ever read them or they may be placed at a little corner on
a web page.
When something happens the administrators can hide behind these
excuses.
I was not talking about all these grandmotherly warnings.
According to press reports from Taiwan,
1)A serious warning came from US on Friday.
2) The 20 member cabinet met on Friday evening to discuss the matter.
3) US warn them not to disclose the alert.
Does this sound like a general grandmotherly warning.
The bombing took place on Saturday evening.
As for why US embassy staff took holiday in Bali.
1) are they the kind of staff that handle secret communication?
2) they don't look at their own notice board perhaps, I suppose.
Jim Walsh
> Secret Squirrel <squi...@echelon.alias.net> wrote:
.......
>> And "Jesus is Arab too" would make those BANANAs convert to Islam from
>> Christianity?
>
> (1) Jesus is not Arab.
Jesus was a Jew and therefore, probably, a Semite. Most Jews and most
Arabs are Semites.
> (2) Stop being a racist. Christianity is not restricted to whites, just
> like Buddhism is not restricted to Indians.
Well that certainly is true.
francispoon
but not the Americans in their embassy.
FP
yug...@yahoo.com (Yu) wrote in message news:<f0abc8cb.02101...@posting.google.com>...
> According to Taiwan Gov official, they were tipped off on Friday by
> USA.
> Taiwan cabinet met on Friday evening to discuss the matter.
> Taiwan at that time had about 1000 tourists in Bali.
> http://www.ettoday.com/2002/10/14/91-1363095.htm
>
> If that was the case why didn't USA warn the tourists in Bali about an
> emminent attack?
>
> Nush must be longing for it to happen so that he can use it drum up
francispoon
Do you believe this job was done by other than muslim terrorists?
FP
"Jim Walsh" <jimw...@ebtnet.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2002.10.15....@ebtnet.net>...
> On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 00:31:48 +0000, klmok wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:15:11 -0700, "Peter L" <pete...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>Australia's policy towards the Middle East? What policy?
> >>
> >>Australians go to Bali because it is close and it is cheap.
> >>
> >>
> > True. But are the terrorists going to ask a white guy's nationality and
> > political persuation first before blowing him up? No. White is white and
> > all whites are the same to him. Boom. They got GW's attention. That's
> > all that counts.
>
> The murder of tourist, regardless of skin color, serves no rational
> purpose, religious or political.
>
Jim Walsh
> Jim,
>
> Do you believe this job was done by other than muslim terrorists?
I guess that the bombs in Bali and in the Philipines were set by
terrorists who claim a religious motivation.
I don't have to believe that there IS a religious motivation nor that the
religion involved is Islam, just because they say so.
>> The murder of tourist, regardless of skin color, serves no rational
>> purpose, religious or political.
>>
>> The Taliban are not bragging about having gotten GW's attention.
--
Jim Walsh
> My concern is why the terrorists picked on the Australians in the bar but
> not the Americans in their embassy.
My understanding is that they tried but failed to bomb the embassy.
My guess is that the bar was chosen because it was easy. These guys aren't
exactly rocket scientists.
Eric Chang ~{VY;T~}
> On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:37:03 +0000, Eric Chang ~{VY;T~} wrote:
>> Secret Squirrel <squi...@echelon.alias.net> wrote:
> .......
>>> And "Jesus is Arab too" would make those BANANAs convert to Islam from
>>> Christianity?
>>
>> (1) Jesus is not Arab.
> Jesus was a Jew and therefore, probably, a Semite. Most Jews and most
> Arabs are Semites.
I am aware that Jews and Arabs share common ancestry. Queen of Sheba is
probably from the Arab peninsula too. But to say Jesus is an Arab would
be like saying Abraham Lincoln is an Australian.
Wing C Ng
Eric Chang ~{VY;T~} <ecc...@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>Jim Walsh <jimw...@ebtnet.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:37:03 +0000, Eric Chang ~{VY;T~} wrote:
>
>>> Secret Squirrel <squi...@echelon.alias.net> wrote:
>> .......
>>>> And "Jesus is Arab too" would make those BANANAs convert to Islam from
>>>> Christianity?
>>>
>>> (1) Jesus is not Arab.
>
>> Jesus was a Jew and therefore, probably, a Semite. Most Jews and most
>> Arabs are Semites.
Like the joke says, "only on her mother's side".
>
>I am aware that Jews and Arabs share common ancestry. Queen of Sheba is
>probably from the Arab peninsula too. But to say Jesus is an Arab would
I think she is from Ethiopia, although it might have been
another queen in the Old Testament.
I have also been told that the pyramid-building Egyptians
were not Arabs, but rather black Africans. Egypt is certainly
in Africa.
>be like saying Abraham Lincoln is an Australian.
>
>>> (2) Stop being a racist. Christianity is not restricted to whites, just
>>> like Buddhism is not restricted to Indians.
>
>> Well that certainly is true.
Then they said Buddha was not Indian, he was Nepali, his
kingdom was located in today's Nepal.
Wing
Jim Walsh
> Jim Walsh <jimw...@ebtnet.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:37:03 +0000, Eric Chang ~{VY;T~} wrote:
>
>>> Secret Squirrel <squi...@echelon.alias.net> wrote:
>> .......
>>>> And "Jesus is Arab too" would make those BANANAs convert to Islam from
>>>> Christianity?
>>>
>>> (1) Jesus is not Arab.
>
>> Jesus was a Jew and therefore, probably, a Semite. Most Jews and most
>> Arabs are Semites.
>
> I am aware that Jews and Arabs share common ancestry. Queen of Sheba is
> probably from the Arab peninsula too. But to say Jesus is an Arab would
> be like saying Abraham Lincoln is an Australian.
Nope. It is like saying Lincoln was a North American.
Eric Chang ~{VY;T~}
> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:53:26 +0000, Eric Chang ~{VY;T~} wrote:
>> Jim Walsh <jimw...@ebtnet.net> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:37:03 +0000, Eric Chang ~{VY;T~} wrote:
>>
>>>> Secret Squirrel <squi...@echelon.alias.net> wrote:
>>> .......
>>>>> And "Jesus is Arab too" would make those BANANAs convert to Islam from
>>>>> Christianity?
>>>>
>>>> (1) Jesus is not Arab.
>>
>>> Jesus was a Jew and therefore, probably, a Semite. Most Jews and most
>>> Arabs are Semites.
>>
>> I am aware that Jews and Arabs share common ancestry. Queen of Sheba is
>> probably from the Arab peninsula too. But to say Jesus is an Arab would
>> be like saying Abraham Lincoln is an Australian.
> Nope. It is like saying Lincoln was a North American.
No, saying Lincoln was a North America would be like saying Jesus is
a Semite.
Eric
Wing C Ng
Jim Walsh <jimw...@ebtnet.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:53:26 +0000, Eric Chang ~{VY;T~} wrote:
>
>> Jim Walsh <jimw...@ebtnet.net> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:37:03 +0000, Eric Chang ~{VY;T~} wrote:
>>
>>>> Secret Squirrel <squi...@echelon.alias.net> wrote:
>>> .......
>>>>> And "Jesus is Arab too" would make those BANANAs convert to Islam from
>>>>> Christianity?
>>>>
>>>> (1) Jesus is not Arab.
>>
>>> Jesus was a Jew and therefore, probably, a Semite. Most Jews and most
>>> Arabs are Semites.
>>
>> I am aware that Jews and Arabs share common ancestry. Queen of Sheba is
>> probably from the Arab peninsula too. But to say Jesus is an Arab would
>> be like saying Abraham Lincoln is an Australian.
>
>Nope. It is like saying Lincoln was a North American.
That only applies if the original statement were "Jesus
was a Semite."
Wing
Eric Chang ~{VY;T~}
> In article <aoosnm$22to$2...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
> Eric Chang ~{VY;T~} <ecc...@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>Jim Walsh <jimw...@ebtnet.net> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:37:03 +0000, Eric Chang ~{VY;T~} wrote:
>>
>>>> Secret Squirrel <squi...@echelon.alias.net> wrote:
>>> .......
>>>>> And "Jesus is Arab too" would make those BANANAs convert to Islam from
>>>>> Christianity?
>>>>
>>>> (1) Jesus is not Arab.
>>
>>> Jesus was a Jew and therefore, probably, a Semite. Most Jews and most
>>> Arabs are Semites.
> Like the joke says, "only on her mother's side".
>>
>>I am aware that Jews and Arabs share common ancestry. Queen of Sheba is
>>probably from the Arab peninsula too. But to say Jesus is an Arab would
> I think she is from Ethiopia, although it might have been
> another queen in the Old Testament.
Some say she is from Ethiopia. Others Yemen.
Eric
Wing C Ng
Eric Chang ~{VY;T~} <ecc...@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>Wing C Ng <wi...@lava.net> wrote:
>> In article <aoosnm$22to$2...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
>> Eric Chang ~{VY;T~} <ecc...@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>>Jim Walsh <jimw...@ebtnet.net> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:37:03 +0000, Eric Chang ~{VY;T~} wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Secret Squirrel <squi...@echelon.alias.net> wrote:
>>>> .......
>>>>>> And "Jesus is Arab too" would make those BANANAs convert to Islam from
>>>>>> Christianity?
>>>>>
>>>>> (1) Jesus is not Arab.
>>>
>>>> Jesus was a Jew and therefore, probably, a Semite. Most Jews and most
>>>> Arabs are Semites.
>
>> Like the joke says, "only on her mother's side".
>
>>>
>>>I am aware that Jews and Arabs share common ancestry. Queen of Sheba is
>>>probably from the Arab peninsula too. But to say Jesus is an Arab would
>
>> I think she is from Ethiopia, although it might have been
>> another queen in the Old Testament.
>
>Some say she is from Ethiopia. Others Yemen.
>
There are some Jews/Hebrews still in Ethiopia, I read,
descendants of whoever went there from Israel during that
queen's time.
Wing
Jim Walsh
> In article <pan.2002.10.18....@ebtnet.net>, Jim Walsh
> <jimw...@ebtnet.net> wrote:
...
>>>>> (1) Jesus is not Arab.
>>>
>>>> Jesus was a Jew and therefore, probably, a Semite. Most Jews and most
>>>> Arabs are Semites.
>>>
>>> I am aware that Jews and Arabs share common ancestry. Queen of Sheba
>>> is probably from the Arab peninsula too. But to say Jesus is an Arab
>>> would be like saying Abraham Lincoln is an Australian.
>>
>>Nope. It is like saying Lincoln was a North American.
>
> That only applies if the original statement were "Jesus was a Semite."
Actually I do not know for sure that he was a Semite.
Wing C Ng
Jim Walsh <jimw...@ebtnet.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:20:13 +0000, Wing C Ng wrote:
>
>> In article <pan.2002.10.18....@ebtnet.net>, Jim Walsh
>> <jimw...@ebtnet.net> wrote:
>
>...
>
>>>>>> (1) Jesus is not Arab.
>>>>
>>>>> Jesus was a Jew and therefore, probably, a Semite. Most Jews and most
>>>>> Arabs are Semites.
>>>>
>>>> I am aware that Jews and Arabs share common ancestry. Queen of Sheba
>>>> is probably from the Arab peninsula too. But to say Jesus is an Arab
>>>> would be like saying Abraham Lincoln is an Australian.
>>>
>>>Nope. It is like saying Lincoln was a North American.
>>
>> That only applies if the original statement were "Jesus was a Semite."
>
>Actually I do not know for sure that he was a Semite.
>
Why?
Of course there are theories that Mary had something
with a Roman soldier, etc.etc.
Wing
Jim Walsh
>>>>>>> (1) Jesus is not Arab.
>>>>>> Jesus was a Jew and therefore, probably, a Semite. Most Jews and
>>>>>> most Arabs are Semites.
>>Actually I do not know for sure that he was a Semite.
> Why? Of course there are theories that Mary had something with a Roman
> soldier, etc.etc.
Well, that is possible.
It happened (or not) about 2,000 years ago. I guess that he was probably a
Semite (like the other Arabs and Jews living around him), but there is no
evidence which can prove it, after those 2,000 years.
Eric Chang ~{VY;T~}
> In article <aoq1qf$2e55$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
> Eric Chang ~{VY;T~} <ecc...@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>Wing C Ng <wi...@lava.net> wrote:
>>> In article <aoosnm$22to$2...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
>>> Eric Chang ~{VY;T~} <ecc...@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>>>Jim Walsh <jimw...@ebtnet.net> wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:37:03 +0000, Eric Chang ~{VY;T~} wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Secret Squirrel <squi...@echelon.alias.net> wrote:
>>>>> .......
>>>>>>> And "Jesus is Arab too" would make those BANANAs convert to Islam from
>>>>>>> Christianity?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (1) Jesus is not Arab.
>>>>
>>>>> Jesus was a Jew and therefore, probably, a Semite. Most Jews and most
>>>>> Arabs are Semites.
>>
>>> Like the joke says, "only on her mother's side".
>>
>>>>
>>>>I am aware that Jews and Arabs share common ancestry. Queen of Sheba is
>>>>probably from the Arab peninsula too. But to say Jesus is an Arab would
>>
>>> I think she is from Ethiopia, although it might have been
>>> another queen in the Old Testament.
>>
>>Some say she is from Ethiopia. Others Yemen.
>>
> There are some Jews/Hebrews still in Ethiopia, I read,
> descendants of whoever went there from Israel during that
> queen's time.
Yes, there are Jews from Ethiopia, and some even say they are
descendants of Queen of Sheba, On the other hand, I read in
history/archaeology magazine tracing the Queen of Sheba to
Yemen. Here is a link from the British Museum:
http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/education/sheba/sheba_events.html
Do a google search on "Queen of Sheba Yemen" and "Queen of Sheba Ethiopia".
Eric