word/phrases meanings
d.w.
I got a few questions and I try to put down my guess as best as
possible. Don't know if I got their meanings right or not.
Thanks
1. What does it mean when someone says "do you cow tip?" Because they
were talking about North Texas, sounds like it has something to do
with cowboy way of life
2. "one more ace in the hole"
my guess is "ace in the hole" is something that can bring certain
advantages in a competition, like a trump card
3. "I'm hacked off" means "I'm ticked off"?
4. The context is two people were talking about the girl's voice. The
guy told the girl she has a high pitch and the girl said "how high,
like chickamon high?" I guess chickamon is some kind of animal, maybe
bird that has a high-pitched chirp?
Robert Lipton
d.w. wrote:
> Hi,
> I got a few questions and I try to put down my guess as best as
> possible. Don't know if I got their meanings right or not.
> Thanks
>
> 1. What does it mean when someone says "do you cow tip?" Because they
> were talking about North Texas, sounds like it has something to do
> with cowboy way of life
Cow tipping is a recreation for morons. If you push a cow over on its
side it has a hard time getting up.
>
> 2. "one more ace in the hole"
> my guess is "ace in the hole" is something that can bring certain
> advantages in a competition, like a trump card
It's a phrase from poker, specifically five-card or seven-card stud. In
five card-stud, four cards are dealt to each player, face up and one
card face down; in seven-card stud, five are dealt face up and one face
down. Cards dealt face down are called "hole cards". Having an ace in
the hole is a valuable asset.
>
> 3. "I'm hacked off" means "I'm ticked off"?
Yup.
Bob
R H Draney
>
>d.w. wrote:
>
>> 3. "I'm hacked off" means "I'm ticked off"?
>
>Yup.
But not in the British sense of "ticked off"....r
Tony Cooper
news:3D7537A4...@nyc.rr.com...
>
>
> d.w. wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I got a few questions and I try to put down my guess as best as
> > possible. Don't know if I got their meanings right or not.
> > Thanks
> >
> > 1. What does it mean when someone says "do you cow tip?" Because
they
> > were talking about North Texas, sounds like it has something to do
> > with cowboy way of life
>
> Cow tipping is a recreation for morons. If you push a cow over on its
> side it has a hard time getting up.
It's not a recreation for cowboys, though. A cowboy gallops around all
day keeping cows moving or something. At night, when the cows are
sleeping, he's damn well not going to go out and push them over. He
doesn't want to deal with a sleep-deprived cow the next day.
Cow-tipping, if it's really done, is done to sleeping cows by people
wherever there are cows. This means it's usually done in rural areas
since cows tend to kick over buckets and start fires if kept in cities.
I've run into several people that knew someone that tipped cows. I have
never run into anyone that actually tipped a cow. I have seen cows, and
even touched one. They're freakin' huge things with four legs and big
feet. They don't look all that unstable to me. The cow cows have an
udder as big as a pillow that droops down. No way their center of
balance is such that they're easily tippable. The bull cows drip a lot
of snot, and I wouldn't want to get that near one.
If I'm going to try to tip some wild creature, it'll be snipe. If I can
ever catch one, that is.
--
Tony Cooper aka: Tony_Co...@Yahoo.com
Provider of Jots & Tittles
Pan
>Hi,
>I got a few questions and I try to put down my guess as best as
>possible. Don't know if I got their meanings right or not.
>Thanks
>
>1. What does it mean when someone says "do you cow tip?" Because they
>were talking about North Texas, sounds like it has something to do
>with cowboy way of life
I understand that cow-tipping is attempting to throw a cow to the
ground.
>2. "one more ace in the hole"
>my guess is "ace in the hole" is something that can bring certain
>advantages in a competition, like a trump card
Aces are usually the highest cards, so having an ace is likely to make
the player win.
>
>3. "I'm hacked off" means "I'm ticked off"?
I wouldn't know, but why not?
>4. The context is two people were talking about the girl's voice. The
>guy told the girl she has a high pitch and the girl said "how high,
>like chickamon high?" I guess chickamon is some kind of animal, maybe
>bird that has a high-pitched chirp?
Beats me. But then I'm no Texan.
Michael
To reply by email, please take out the TRASH (so to speak). Personal messages only, please!
David Squire
> 4. The context is two people were talking about the girl's voice. The
> guy told the girl she has a high pitch and the girl said "how high,
> like chickamon high?" I guess chickamon is some kind of animal, maybe
> bird that has a high-pitched chirp?
Are you sure that this was correctly transcribed? I suspect that it was
"chipmunk-high", as in the the cartoon muscial group "Alvin and the
Chipmunks". See
http://www.yesterdayland.com/popopedia/shows/music/mu1156.php, where it
says:
These animated members of the animal kingdom have entertained
several generations of children around the world with their
cartoon adventures and unique high-pitched musical stylings.
Real chipmunks are described at
http://www.cws-scf.ec.gc.ca/hww-fap/hww-fap.cfm?ID_species=56&lang=e,
which includes:
Biologists have not yet determined the meaning of all the
chipmunk's many calls. For example, when a chipmunk is
startled, it runs quickly along the ground giving a rapid
series of loud chips and squeaks. Perhaps this sudden burst of
noise startles predators, helping the chipmunk to escape.
Also, chipmunks frequently call with a high-pitched "chip" or
"chuck" repeated over and over at intervals of one or two
seconds. This scolding noise is often made by a chipmunk
watching an intruder from a safe vantage point. Some
scientists think that it may also be the mating call of the
female chipmunk.
Cheers,
D.
david56
>
> I've run into several people that knew someone that tipped cows. I have
> never run into anyone that actually tipped a cow. I have seen cows, and
> even touched one. They're freakin' huge things with four legs and big
> feet. They don't look all that unstable to me. The cow cows have an
> udder as big as a pillow that droops down. No way their center of
> balance is such that they're easily tippable. The bull cows drip a lot
> of snot, and I wouldn't want to get that near one.
What an educational place is aue. The are loads of cows in these parts,
but I have never heard of cow tipping. What a jolly jape.
BTW, "cow cow" and "bull cow"? What's wrong with "cow" and "bull". And
"bullock" for those that have been reduced by a small amount.
--
David
I say what it occurs to me to say.
=====
The address is valid today, but I will change it to keep ahead of the
spammers.
Don Phillipson
news:9784d0e2.02090...@posting.google.com...
> 2. "one more ace in the hole"
> my guess is "ace in the hole" is something that can bring certain
> advantages in a competition, like a trump card
This comes from the card game of poker.
Each player's "hole" is his cards dealt face
down, i.e. so that the other players cannot
see what they are. The ace is the top-value
card, so an ace in the hole is a top-value
card unknown to other players.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)
dphil...@trytel.com.com.com.less2
d.w.
> "d.w." wrote:
>
> > 4. The context is two people were talking about the girl's voice. The
> > guy told the girl she has a high pitch and the girl said "how high,
> > like chickamon high?" I guess chickamon is some kind of animal, maybe
> > bird that has a high-pitched chirp?
>
> Are you sure that this was correctly transcribed? I suspect that it was
> "chipmunk-high", as in the the cartoon muscial group "Alvin and the
> Chipmunks". See
> http://www.yesterdayland.com/popopedia/shows/music/mu1156.php, where it
> says:
>
> These animated members of the animal kingdom have entertained
> several generations of children around the world with their
> cartoon adventures and unique high-pitched musical stylings.
That's it. it must be chipmunk. It makes perfect sense now. Thanks.
Robert Bannister
Better tipping than tupping.
--
Rob Bannister
Peter Moylan
>Tony Cooper wrote:
>> I've run into several people that knew someone that tipped cows. I have
>> never run into anyone that actually tipped a cow.
>Better tipping than tupping.
Can you tup cows? I thought that word was reserved for sheep.
(Just to be clear: I'm not talking about the activity, which no doubt
is possible with the aid of a ladder or a conveniently placed fence.
But what is it called? The noun "tup" refers specifically to a ram, and
I think accessories like tupping chalk are used only by sheep farmers.)
--
Peter Moylan pe...@ee.newcastle.edu.au
See http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au for OS/2 information and software
Mike Barnes
>If I'm going to try to tip some wild creature, it'll be snipe. If I can
>ever catch one, that is.
Why *do* you Americans have so much difficulty catching snipes? AFAIK
the rest of the world doesn't have any particular problem.
--
Mike Barnes
Mike Lyle
> Robert Bannister <rob...@it.net.au> wrote:
> >Tony Cooper wrote:
>
> >> I've run into several people that knew someone that tipped cows. I have
> >> never run into anyone that actually tipped a cow.
>
> >Better tipping than tupping.
>
> Can you tup cows? I thought that word was reserved for sheep.
>
> (Just to be clear: I'm not talking about the activity, which no doubt
> is possible with the aid of a ladder or a conveniently placed fence.
> But what is it called? The noun "tup" refers specifically to a ram, and
> I think accessories like tupping chalk are used only by sheep farmers.)
Back to cow orking again?
Personally, I think it's graceful to tip cows: they just don't get
proper recognition for all that milk, and a handful of macerated
sheep's brains is surely little enough to give.
"Johnny, why are you late?" "Sorry, miss, I had to take a cow to the
bull." "Couldn't your father have done that?" "Oh, yes; but not as
good as the bull."
Mike.
Pat Durkin
"Mike Barnes" <mi...@senrab.com> wrote in message
news:+VlgZxB6...@senrab.com...
The joke is that the simpleton or "dude" is led to believe that the
snipe can only be caught at night, and that it can be driven into the
clearing in which the dude is left holding the bag(1) all night long,
while the jokesters go home to bed, instead of beating the bush.
I am convinced that the jokesters themselves believe that the snipe is a
creature of myth, so in my book, the joke is on them, as they try to
fool a simpleton.
(1) I don't mean to say that the expression "left holding the bag"
originated with this prank. It just fits in here.
Tony Cooper
When I was young, I was the victim in a snipe hunt. Later, I was a
conspirator in snipe hunts. It came as a great shock later in life to
learn that there really *are* such things as snipe. I thought it was a
mythical creature.
david56
>
> "Mike Barnes" <mi...@senrab.com> wrote in message
> news:+VlgZxB6...@senrab.com...
> > In alt.usage.english, Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote
> > > If I'm going to try to tip some wild creature, it'll be snipe. If I
> > > can ever catch one, that is.
> >
> > Why *do* you Americans have so much difficulty catching snipes? AFAIK
> > the rest of the world doesn't have any particular problem.
>
> When I was young, I was the victim in a snipe hunt. Later, I was a
> conspirator in snipe hunts. It came as a great shock later in life to
> learn that there really *are* such things as snipe. I thought it was a
> mythical creature.
Astonishing. A whole subculture I was unaware of.
Nobody ever took me out to catch snipe, but if they had I would have
been looking for one of these
http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/j/Snipe.jpg. However, in the
circles in which I move, the term "snipe" would be more likely to refer
to one of these http://www.iiia.csic.es/~levy/personal/snipe.jpg or one
of these http://www.humberonia.freeserve.co.uk/1963%20Super%20Snipe.JPG.
Tony Cooper
"david56" <bass.a...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3D77825C...@ntlworld.com...
Always sniping at our rural customs, aren't you?
The first exposure to particular expressions is one of the agonies of
growing up. I remember being in a garage we used as an informal "club
house" with a few other neighborhood boys and one of the neighborhood
girls doing something entirely innocuous. The older brother of one of
the boys poked his head in the door said something like "What's going on
here? Playing 'hide the weenie'?"
We spent the next few minutes discussing among ourselves what this could
possibly mean. We knew it wasn't something we could ask him to define
since it would result in snorts of derision, and knew it wasn't
something we could ask our mothers to define, but hadn't a clue about
the probable meaning. There was one boy in the group whose father was
the sort to provide definitions to such phrases without making the asker
feel the fool, so we had to wait until he came home from work to know.
david56
>
> Always sniping at our rural customs, aren't you?
But always with affection.
> The first exposure to particular expressions is one of the agonies of
> growing up. I remember being in a garage we used as an informal "club
> house" with a few other neighborhood boys and one of the neighborhood
> girls doing something entirely innocuous. The older brother of one of
> the boys poked his head in the door said something like "What's going on
> here? Playing 'hide the weenie'?"
>
> We spent the next few minutes discussing among ourselves what this could
> possibly mean. We knew it wasn't something we could ask him to define
> since it would result in snorts of derision, and knew it wasn't
> something we could ask our mothers to define, but hadn't a clue about
> the probable meaning. There was one boy in the group whose father was
> the sort to provide definitions to such phrases without making the asker
> feel the fool, so we had to wait until he came home from work to know.
"Weenie" is not a word used in the UK, but it sounds rude (too much like
"willy") - the equivalent expression is "hide the sausage".
Jerry Friedman
It's worse than you think. Once when I was a boy, I talked with a
younger boy who, earlier that day at summer camp, had gone on a "snipe
hunt". The counselor had told him and his playmates that snipe were
something like six feet tall, had big sharp teeth, and liked to eat
little kids. He was still scared, and would *not* believe me when I
told him what a snipe was. (It might have helped if I'd seen one at
that time.)
*Catching* snipe would be hard, although one's springes to catch
woodcock might be useful. I don't think shooting a snipe is all that
hard, but tipping them after they've been shot is probably not much
sport.
By the way, Peterson's bird guides say that some Americans refer to
all shorebirds (anglice "waders") as snipe. Any truth to that? Now
or formerly?
--
Jerry Friedman
Pat Durkin
High school sports opponents of Sheboygan (Wisconsin. The city had a
well-known sausage-making industry), back in the '60s, converted a
well-known car engine additive (STP) into a feelthy slogan: Suck the
pork.
I have heard "pork" used as another version of "stiffing", in the sexual
sense, as well.
Christopher Green
> Tony Cooper wrote:
> >
> > I've run into several people that knew someone that tipped cows. I have
> > never run into anyone that actually tipped a cow. I have seen cows, and
> > even touched one. They're freakin' huge things with four legs and big
> > feet. They don't look all that unstable to me. The cow cows have an
> > udder as big as a pillow that droops down. No way their center of
> > balance is such that they're easily tippable. The bull cows drip a lot
> > of snot, and I wouldn't want to get that near one.
>
> What an educational place is aue. The are loads of cows in these parts,
> but I have never heard of cow tipping. What a jolly jape.
>
> BTW, "cow cow" and "bull cow"? What's wrong with "cow" and "bull". And
> "bullock" for those that have been reduced by a small amount.
Another Americanism: a bovine of either sex is a "cow", especially
when the distinction isn't important. And "Cow Cow Boogie" was Ella
Mae Morse's first big hit, 1942.
--
Chris Green
Mike Lyle
I haven't even got a gun these days (all right, there may be something
in the bottom of an unsearched box somewhere, I don't know), and I
prefer to see them shagging one another's backsides off on my ponds to
blowing their brains out, but snipe are hard to "catch". The cynical
Dutch outfit Bols will even give you a free tie if you can prove
you've shot two of the poor little sods without reloading: they zig
and zag as though there was no tomorrow.
Mike.
Pat Durkin
"Jerry Friedman" <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:96efe132.02090...@posting.google.com...
> Mike Barnes <mi...@senrab.com> wrote in message
news:<+VlgZxB6...@senrab.com>...
> > In alt.usage.english, Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote
> > >If I'm going to try to tip some wild creature, it'll be snipe. If
I can
> > >ever catch one, that is.
> >
> > Why *do* you Americans have so much difficulty catching snipes?
AFAIK
> > the rest of the world doesn't have any particular problem.
>
> It's worse than you think. Once when I was a boy, I talked with a
> younger boy who, earlier that day at summer camp, had gone on a "snipe
> hunt". The counselor had told him and his playmates that snipe were
> something like six feet tall, had big sharp teeth, and liked to eat
> little kids. He was still scared, and would *not* believe me when I
> told him what a snipe was. (It might have helped if I'd seen one at
> that time.)
>
> *Catching* snipe would be hard, although one's springes to catch
> woodcock might be useful.
As for using one's springes... I know I have seen that word before, but
had to look it up for meaning. As you chose to use it in this case, I
am wondering why you did not choose a more common term. Do woodcock
hunters use the term? I thought of woodcock as extremely wary game, but
hunted with guns, usually at dusk.
> I don't think shooting a snipe is all that
> hard, but tipping them after they've been shot is probably not much
> sport.
Nothing like cow tipping, of course, but tipping the old jug probably
adds to the sport.
>
> By the way, Peterson's bird guides say that some Americans refer to
> all shorebirds (anglice "waders") as snipe. Any truth to that? Now
> or formerly?
I am not familiar with that generalized usage, nor with Peterson's bird
guides. Of course, being in the Midwest, we lack ocean shores, so
perhaps don't see quite the number of shorebirds that one would see on
the coast. Could that be a NE coastal usage?
Ben Zimmer
In other words, Leftpondian "cow" has both an "unmarked" sense (all bovines) and a "marked" sense
(female bovines). See the recent thread on "English English" and like expressions:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&th=36761611759f9ba4
--Ben
Mike Barnes
>Tony Cooper wrote:
>>
>> "Mike Barnes" <mi...@senrab.com> wrote in message
>> news:+VlgZxB6...@senrab.com...
>> > In alt.usage.english, Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote
>> > > If I'm going to try to tip some wild creature, it'll be snipe. If I
>> > > can ever catch one, that is.
>> >
>> > Why *do* you Americans have so much difficulty catching snipes? AFAIK
>> > the rest of the world doesn't have any particular problem.
>>
>> When I was young, I was the victim in a snipe hunt. Later, I was a
>> conspirator in snipe hunts. It came as a great shock later in life to
>> learn that there really *are* such things as snipe. I thought it was a
>> mythical creature.
>
>Astonishing. A whole subculture I was unaware of.
>
>Nobody ever took me out to catch snipe, but if they had I would have
>been looking for one of these
>http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/j/Snipe.jpg. However, in the
>circles in which I move, the term "snipe" would be more likely to refer
>to one of these http://www.iiia.csic.es/~levy/personal/snipe.jpg or one
>of these http://www.humberonia.freeserve.co.uk/1963%20Super%20Snipe.JPG.
While Googling to refresh my memory on American snipe-hunting, I came
across this:
http://www.thefontman.com/snipe_hunter.htm
Make sure you read down to the heading "Now here comes the good part!".
--
Mike Barnes
david56
They must be brighter than I thought.
Tony Cooper
Tony said:
> > > > I've run into several people that knew someone that tipped cows.
I have
> > > > never run into anyone that actually tipped a cow. I have seen
cows, and
> > > > even touched one. They're freakin' huge things with four legs
and big
> > > > feet. They don't look all that unstable to me. The cow cows
have an
> > > > udder as big as a pillow that droops down. No way their center
of
> > > > balance is such that they're easily tippable. The bull cows
drip a lot
> > > > of snot, and I wouldn't want to get that near one.
David said:
> > > BTW, "cow cow" and "bull cow"? What's wrong with "cow" and
"bull". And
> > > "bullock" for those that have been reduced by a small amount.
> >
> > Another Americanism: a bovine of either sex is a "cow", especially
> > when the distinction isn't important.
>
> In other words, Leftpondian "cow" has both an "unmarked" sense (all
bovines) and a "marked" sense
> (female bovines). See the recent thread on "English English" and like
expressions:
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&th=36761611759f9ba4
Let's not make generalizations about Leftpondian usage based on my
attempts at drollery. While I have only come close enough to one cow to
touch one, I am fully aware of the differences between a cow and a bull.
After all, I am Hoosier born and raised, and Indiana is chock-a-block
with cow creatures. They just didn't hang about in my neighborhood.
In normal conversation I would never say "cow cow" and "bull cow".
"Girl cow" and "boy cow", maybe.
I friend of mine once invested in a scheme to produce Kobe-type beef. A
southern Indiana farmer was promoting this. The idea was you purchased
a cow, and agreed to pay the farmer so-much a month for this special
diet that fattened up the cows and was supposed to result in wonderfully
tender and marbled beef. The cows were kept in small pens, and groomed
like poodles. The financial rewards promised were high.
My friend, Tom, was notified some time later that his two cows died. It
was a nice letter, and it pointed out that a rich diet was sometimes too
much for the cow, and they would die from intestinal problems.
Saddened, and out-of-pocket, Tom went to the farm to see about buying
another cow or too. There were about 30 cows in small pens.
Noticing that the pens were not labeled, he asked the farmer how he knew
it was Tom's cows that died. The farmer did not have a sufficiently
good answer. Tom left without buying more cows. Turned out that the
farmer sent letters to *all* of his investors saying their cow(s) died.
Some of the other investors talked among themselves and started an
investigation.
Evan Kirshenbaum
> "Ben Zimmer" <bgzi...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
>
> > In other words, Leftpondian "cow" has both an "unmarked" sense
> > (all bovines) and a "marked" sense (female bovines). See the
> > recent thread on "English English" and like expressions:
> >
> > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&th=36761611759f9ba4
The other day I was thinking about this and the phrase "people
people", a different construction meaning roughly, "people who are
good at and enjoy dealing with people". I realized that I could
duplicate this into "*people people* people people" to pick out those
who are canonical examples. I then realized that you could say
something like
If you call people people who aren't people people people people
people people people people, people people people people will get
upset.
and it's almost understandable.
> Let's not make generalizations about Leftpondian usage based on my
> attempts at drollery. While I have only come close enough to one
> cow to touch one, I am fully aware of the differences between a cow
> and a bull. After all, I am Hoosier born and raised, and Indiana is
> chock-a-block with cow creatures. They just didn't hang about in my
> neighborhood.
>
> In normal conversation I would never say "cow cow" and "bull cow".
> "Girl cow" and "boy cow", maybe.
I would never say "bull cow" (much less "girl cow" or "boy cow"), but
I could certainly see, in the context of discussing a farm on which
there were "horses and cows", differentiating between bulls and "*cow*
cows".
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |People think it must be fun to be a
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |super genius, but they don't
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |realize how hard it is to put up
|with all the idiots in the world.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | Calvin
(650)857-7572
Robert Bannister
> pe...@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au (Peter Moylan) wrote in message news:<slrnandjj...@eepjm.newcastle.edu.au>...
> > Robert Bannister <rob...@it.net.au> wrote:
> > >Tony Cooper wrote:
> >
> > >> I've run into several people that knew someone that tipped cows. I have
> > >> never run into anyone that actually tipped a cow.
> >
> > >Better tipping than tupping.
> >
> > Can you tup cows? I thought that word was reserved for sheep.
> >
> > (Just to be clear: I'm not talking about the activity, which no doubt
> > is possible with the aid of a ladder or a conveniently placed fence.
> > But what is it called? The noun "tup" refers specifically to a ram, and
> > I think accessories like tupping chalk are used only by sheep farmers.)
>
> Back to cow orking again?
>
> Personally, I think it's graceful to tip cows: they just don't get
> proper recognition for all that milk
So long as you keep your tips within the recognised 10-15%.
--
Rob Bannister
Ben Zimmer
Christopher Green wrote:
A revival of the 1928 song "Cow Cow Blues" by none other than Charles "Cow Cow" Davenport:
<http://www.redhotjazz.com/cowcow.html>.
And then there's "Cow Cow Yicky Yicky Yea", a cowboy song recorded by Leadbelly.
david56
>
> "Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > "Ben Zimmer" <bgzi...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
> >
> > > In other words, Leftpondian "cow" has both an "unmarked" sense
> > > (all bovines) and a "marked" sense (female bovines). See the
> > > recent thread on "English English" and like expressions:
> > >
> > > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&th=36761611759f9ba4
>
> The other day I was thinking about this and the phrase "people
> people", a different construction meaning roughly, "people who are
> good at and enjoy dealing with people". I realized that I could
> duplicate this into "*people people* people people" to pick out those
> who are canonical examples. I then realized that you could say
> something like
>
> If you call people people who aren't people people people people
> people people people people, people people people people will get
> upset.
>
> and it's almost understandable.
All together now...
People people people people; people people people people who need
people people people people,
are the luckiest people people people people in the world...
david56
>
> Let's not make generalizations about Leftpondian usage based on my
> attempts at drollery. While I have only come close enough to one cow to
> touch one, I am fully aware of the differences between a cow and a bull.
> After all, I am Hoosier born and raised, and Indiana is chock-a-block
> with cow creatures. They just didn't hang about in my neighborhood.
>
> In normal conversation I would never say "cow cow" and "bull cow".
> "Girl cow" and "boy cow", maybe.
>
> I friend of mine once invested in a scheme to produce Kobe-type beef. A
> southern Indiana farmer was promoting this. The idea was you purchased
> a cow, and agreed to pay the farmer so-much a month for this special
> diet that fattened up the cows and was supposed to result in wonderfully
> tender and marbled beef. The cows were kept in small pens, and groomed
> like poodles. The financial rewards promised were high.
Oh wow. You have brought to mind my first High School biology teacher
(my age 11), Mr Pratt. He was also a farmer and seemed to have more
money than the other teachers. He devised a scheme called "Rent A Cow"
which was a sort of Cow Timeshare scheme - you gave him money, he bought
and maintained the cows and then divvied out the profits. My chums and
I who did the printing for school made him some brochures, with a string
print of a cow on the cover, to promote his scheme.
I believe that he was eventually convicted of tax evasion and went to
prison for a while. I have no idea whether anybody made any money from
the scheme.
Tony Cooper
"david56" <bass.a...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> My chums and
> I who did the printing for school made him some brochures, with a
string
> print of a cow on the cover, to promote his scheme.
>
Wazza "string print"?
david56
>
> "david56" <bass.a...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>
> > My chums and
> > I who did the printing for school made him some brochures, with a
> > string print of a cow on the cover, to promote his scheme.
>
> Wazza "string print"?
It's a cheap way of making a block for printing a line drawing in a
printing press. Get a block of wood and glue some string to it in the
shape of the line drawing you want to reproduce. Use it in a printing
press - the "highest" part of the string gets inked and this ink is
impressed onto the paper.
I wonder if there are any piccies online...... Gosh, what a lot of
naked ladies you find when you search for +string +print. One or two
images created by string print, but no pictures of a string print
block. It's not unlike potato printing, but that involves cutting away
the parts you don't want whereas string printing involves building up
the bits you do want.
Pat Durkin
> Tony Cooper wrote:
> >
> > "david56" <bass.a...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> >
> > > My chums and
> > > I who did the printing for school made him some brochures, with a
> > > string print of a cow on the cover, to promote his scheme.
> >
> > Wazza "string print"?
>
> It's a cheap way of making a block for printing a line drawing in a
> printing press. Get a block of wood and glue some string to it in the
> shape of the line drawing you want to reproduce. Use it in a printing
> press - the "highest" part of the string gets inked and this ink is
> impressed onto the paper.
>
> I wonder if there are any piccies online...... Gosh, what a lot of
> naked ladies you find when you search for +string +print. One or two
> images created by string print, but no pictures of a string print
> block. It's not unlike potato printing, but that involves cutting
away
> the parts you don't want whereas string printing involves building up
> the bits you do want.
That was most interesting. I had stopped my consideration of the issue,
assuming you meant "line drawing", without going so far as to think you
were actually doing the job for the teacher/cowman. I suppose, as the
school printer, you would have had to do that string drawing, anyway.
david56
Having negative artistic ability (the paper looks better before I draw
on it), we got one of the art teachers to create the line drawing, then
we did the Engineering job of sticking the string on.
We charged him, of course. The small sums we made from private
enterprise kept us in type and ink so that we could do school printing
for nothing. As well as biscuits and dandelion and burdock for the
workers, of course.
Tony Cooper
> > Wazza "string print"?
>
> It's a cheap way of making a block for printing a line drawing in a
> printing press. Get a block of wood and glue some string to it in the
> shape of the line drawing you want to reproduce. Use it in a printing
> press - the "highest" part of the string gets inked and this ink is
> impressed onto the paper.
>
Once explained, a simple process. I'd not heard of this before. I
suppose one could even use a small string print block and a stamp pad
and skip the printing press. The high school I attended had a printing
press. One of those old, screw-types that printed one page a time.
Small pages could be done four-up.
Of course, today's youth would sneer at such a process and go at the
same project with a $2,000 computer and $500 worth of software.
Peter Moylan
> Oh wow. You have brought to mind my first High School biology teacher
> (my age 11), Mr Pratt. He was also a farmer and seemed to have more
> money than the other teachers. He devised a scheme called "Rent A Cow"
> which was a sort of Cow Timeshare scheme - you gave him money, he bought
> and maintained the cows and then divvied out the profits. My chums and
> I who did the printing for school made him some brochures, with a string
> print of a cow on the cover, to promote his scheme.
>
> I believe that he was eventually convicted of tax evasion and went to
> prison for a while. I have no idea whether anybody made any money from
> the scheme.
That reminds me of a proposal that was put to me in my student days.
I could pay some moderately small amount -- I think it was of the order
of 20 dollars -- to buy a share of a farm. Doing this would technically
make me a farmer, and farmers had certain advantages under the tax
laws. Doing this while a student was even better, because I would
get that special status from the very first year that I had a taxable
income. I could, for example, average my income over the last five
years, where for four of those years my income was close to zero.
To the best of my knowledge this was perfectly legal. I didn't
invest in it, though, partly because I didn't have 20 dollars and
partly because of a feeling that sooner or later the taxation department
would close the loophole and leave me worse off.
My mistake. In later years I realised that loopholes in the tax
laws typically don't get closed, because the biggest tax cheats are
either members of parliament or very good friends of government ministers.
--
Peter Moylan pe...@ee.newcastle.edu.au
http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au
Mike Lyle
[...]
>
> My mistake. In later years I realised that loopholes in the tax
> laws typically don't get closed, because the biggest tax cheats are
> either members of parliament or very good friends of government ministers.
Don't worry: they close them fast enough and replace them with other
ones as soon as they know people like us have found out about them.
Mike.
Jerry Friedman
> "Jerry Friedman" <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:96efe132.02090...@posting.google.com...
> > Mike Barnes <mi...@senrab.com> wrote in message
> news:<+VlgZxB6...@senrab.com>...
> > > Why *do* you Americans have so much difficulty catching snipes?
> > > AFAIK the rest of the world doesn't have any particular problem.
...
> > Catching* snipe would be hard, although one's springes to catch
> > woodcock might be useful.
> I think snipe and woodcock certainly look alike. Are they related?
Both sandpipers, though woodcocks seem pretty aberrant.
> As for using one's springes... I know I have seen that word before, but
> had to look it up for meaning. As you chose to use it in this case, I
> am wondering why you did not choose a more common term. Do woodcock
> hunters use the term? I thought of woodcock as extremely wary game, but
> hunted with guns, usually at dusk.
I knew the phrase was a quotation, but I had to look it up. _Hamlet_, Act I, Sc. 3.
Ophelia:
And hath given countenance to his speech, my lord,
With almost all the holy vows of heaven.
Lord Polonius:
Ay, springes to catch woodcocks. I do know,
When the blood burns, how prodigal the soul
Lends the tongue vows: these blazes, daughter,
Giving more light than heat, extinct in both,
Even in their promise, as it is a-making,
You must not take for fire.
<http://the-tech.mit.edu/Shakespeare/hamlet/full.html>. WoodcockS, I see.
...
> > By the way, Peterson's bird guides say that some Americans refer to
> > all shorebirds (anglice "waders") as snipe. Any truth to that? Now
> > or formerly?
>
> I am not familiar with that generalized usage, nor with Peterson's bird
> guides. Of course, being in the Midwest, we lack ocean shores, so
> perhaps don't see quite the number of shorebirds that one would see on
> the coast. Could that be a NE coastal usage?
That would make sense, considering that Peterson lived in Connecticut.
--
Jerry Friedman
fotog
lives in rural, Virginia described it as a prank done by bored teens. She has done it but
after learning that tipping (I suggest it's really toppling) a sleeping cow can cause
serious, if not fatal injury to the animal, she refused to do it ever again.
I asked what the cow said when "toppled" and she explained that it was a sort of "uh!"...a
bit like a truncated sigh.
--DaveinFLL
============================
It's Not the Heat, It's The Humidity!
============================
fotog
cow push hard against one side and...down she goes! A cow is really quite top heavy with a
high center of gravity so it doesn't take much to topple one. Especially when you use the
element of surprise!
Skitt
> --DaveinFLL
What is FLL and where is it?
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
-- Manuel (Fawlty Towers)
Robert Lieblich
>
> fotog wrote:
>
> > --DaveinFLL
>
> What is FLL and where is it?
Airline code for Ft. Lauderdale-Hollywood Airport. Confirmed by the
heat and humidity in his signature.
Maybe next he'll read the mini-FAQ on how to respond to postings:
<http://www.alt-usage-english.org/intro_a.shtml#Responding>.
--
Bob Lieblich
Been to FLL, but not lately
Skitt
> Skitt wrote:
>>
>> fotog wrote:
>>
>>> --DaveinFLL
>>
>> What is FLL and where is it?
>
> Airline code for Ft. Lauderdale-Hollywood Airport. Confirmed by the
> heat and humidity in his signature.
Ah, yes. I suspected Fort Lauderdale, but I din't think he lived at the
airport.
Skitt
> Robert Lieblich wrote:
>> Skitt wrote:
>>> fotog wrote:
>>>> --DaveinFLL
>>>
>>> What is FLL and where is it?
>>
>> Airline code for Ft. Lauderdale-Hollywood Airport. Confirmed by the
>> heat and humidity in his signature.
>
> Ah, yes. I suspected Fort Lauderdale, but I din't think he lived at
> the airport.
I really "din't".
Tony Cooper
"fotog" <fo...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:rq7qnu8bihfcarl64...@4ax.com...
> Apparently, there's not much to it. Two or three youngsters beside a
standing, sleeping
> cow push hard against one side and...down she goes! A cow is really
quite top heavy with a
> high center of gravity so it doesn't take much to topple one.
Especially when you use the
> element of surprise!
I am trying hard to think of how to tell if a cow has been surprised.
It seems to me that a cow has one reaction to anything: vacuous
nothingness. You can walk up to a cow - sleeping or awake - and the cow
stands there cow-like. A person would be pretty silly to creep up on a
cow to gain the element of surprise.
Maria Conlon
Tony Cooper wrote
[...] A person would be pretty silly to creep up on a
>cow to gain the element of surprise.
It works with cow orkers, though. It's even interesting sometimes.
Maria
Tony Cooper
"Maria Conlon" <mcon...@sprynet.com> wrote in message
news:aljppo$1q9tco$1...@ID-113669.news.dfncis.de...
Cud you be more specific?
Aaron J. Dinkin
> "Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> In normal conversation I would never say "cow cow" and "bull cow".
>> "Girl cow" and "boy cow", maybe.
>
> I would never say "bull cow" (much less "girl cow" or "boy cow"), but
> I could certainly see, in the context of discussing a farm on which
> there were "horses and cows", differentiating between bulls and "*cow*
> cows".
But would you say "A bull is a male cow"? I would.
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Evan Kirshenbaum <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>
> > "Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> writes:
> >
> >> In normal conversation I would never say "cow cow" and "bull cow".
> >> "Girl cow" and "boy cow", maybe.
> >
> > I would never say "bull cow" (much less "girl cow" or "boy cow"),
> > but I could certainly see, in the context of discussing a farm on
> > which there were "horses and cows", differentiating between bulls
> > and "*cow* cows".
>
> But would you say "A bull is a male cow"? I would.
Sure. I'd have to strain to think of another way to say it.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Any programming problem can be
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |solved by adding another layer of
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |indirection. Any performance
|problem can be solved by removing
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |one.
(650)857-7572
Bob Cunningham
said:
> "Aaron J. Dinkin" <a...@post.harvard.edu> writes:
> > Evan Kirshenbaum <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
> > > "Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> writes:
> > >> In normal conversation I would never say "cow cow" and
> > >> "bull cow". "Girl cow" and "boy cow", maybe.
> > > I would never say "bull cow" (much less "girl cow" or
> > > "boy cow"), but I could certainly see, in the context of
> > > discussing a farm on which there were "horses and cows",
> > > differentiating between bulls and "*cow* cows".
> > But would you say "A bull is a male cow"? I would.
> Sure. I'd have to strain to think of another way to say it.
How about "A bull is a bovine male"?
Yes, "bovine" can apply to an ox, but how often do we think of oxen?
For that matter, "cow" itself can be a female of any bovine species. The
_Online Oxford English Dictionary_ says
cow
1. a. The female of any bovine animal (as the ox, bison, or
buffalo); most commonly applied to the female of the domestic
species (Bos Taurus).
But some dictionaries sanction "cow" for the male. For example _The New
Shorter Oxford English Dictionary_ says
cow /kaU/ n.1 [...] b A domestic bovine animal (regardless
of sex or age). Orig. US. M19.
And on the other side of the sea _Webster's Third New International
Dictionary_ says
cow [...] b : a domestic bovine animal regardless of its
sex or age *bring home the cows*
Tony Cooper
"Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote in message
news:wupter...@hpl.hp.com...
> "Aaron J. Dinkin" <a...@post.harvard.edu> writes:
>
> > Evan Kirshenbaum <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
> >
> > > "Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> writes:
> > >
> > >> In normal conversation I would never say "cow cow" and "bull
cow".
> > >> "Girl cow" and "boy cow", maybe.
> > >
> > > I would never say "bull cow" (much less "girl cow" or "boy cow"),
> > > but I could certainly see, in the context of discussing a farm on
> > > which there were "horses and cows", differentiating between bulls
> > > and "*cow* cows".
> >
> > But would you say "A bull is a male cow"? I would.
>
> Sure. I'd have to strain to think of another way to say it.
Would you say the converse: that a cow is a female bull?
Pan
<tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>"Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote in message
>news:wupter...@hpl.hp.com...
>> "Aaron J. Dinkin" <a...@post.harvard.edu> writes:
>>
>> > Evan Kirshenbaum <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > "Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> writes:
>> > >
>> > >> In normal conversation I would never say "cow cow" and "bull
>cow".
>> > >> "Girl cow" and "boy cow", maybe.
>> > >
>> > > I would never say "bull cow" (much less "girl cow" or "boy cow"),
>> > > but I could certainly see, in the context of discussing a farm on
>> > > which there were "horses and cows", differentiating between bulls
>> > > and "*cow* cows".
>> >
>> > But would you say "A bull is a male cow"? I would.
I would, too.
>>
>> Sure. I'd have to strain to think of another way to say it.
>
>Would you say the converse: that a cow is a female bull?
No way. It's just too weird.
Michael
To reply by email, please take out the TRASH (so to speak). Personal messages only, please!
Evan Kirshenbaum
Nope. "Cow" is unmarked, "bull" is marked. It's the only animal I
can think of in which the female is the unmarked term.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |If we have to re-invent the wheel,
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |can we at least make it round this
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |time?
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Mike Oliver
> Nope. "Cow" is unmarked, "bull" is marked. It's the only animal I
> can think of in which the female is the unmarked term.
How about "goose" or "duck"?
Tony Cooper
> can think of in which the female is the unmarked term.
Of course. I knew they didn't brand cows in Palo Alto. They wear
engraved gold tennis bracelets.
Skitt
> "Tony Cooper" writes:
>> "Evan Kirshenbaum" wrote:
>>> "Aaron J. Dinkin" writes:
>>>> But would you say "A bull is a male cow"? I would.
>>>
>>> Sure. I'd have to strain to think of another way to say it.
>>
>> Would you say the converse: that a cow is a female bull?
>
> Nope. "Cow" is unmarked, "bull" is marked. It's the only animal I
> can think of in which the female is the unmarked term.
And the bulls have been cowed into accepting that.
toonice111
> "Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> writes:
> > "Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote in message
> > news:wupter...@hpl.hp.com...
> > > "Aaron J. Dinkin" <a...@post.harvard.edu> writes:
> > > > But would you say "A bull is a male cow"? I would.
> > > Sure. I'd have to strain to think of another way to say it.
> > Would you say the converse: that a cow is a female bull?
> Nope. "Cow" is unmarked, "bull" is marked. It's the only animal I
> can think of in which the female is the unmarked term.
What about "goose" and "gander"?
Maria Conlon
Tony Cooper wrote
>Maria Conlon wrote
>> Tony Cooper wrote
>>>[...] A person would be pretty silly to creep up on a
>>>cow to gain the element of surprise.
>> It works with cow orkers, though. It's even interesting sometimes.
>Cud you be more specific?
Sure, but I chews not to. Let's just say some reactions are udderly
priceless.
Maria
Charles Riggs
<a...@post.harvard.edu> wrote:
>On 05 Sep 2002 16:45:07 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>
>> "Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>> In normal conversation I would never say "cow cow" and "bull cow".
>>> "Girl cow" and "boy cow", maybe.
>>
>> I would never say "bull cow" (much less "girl cow" or "boy cow"), but
>> I could certainly see, in the context of discussing a farm on which
>> there were "horses and cows", differentiating between bulls and "*cow*
>> cows".
A cow cow? What's wrong with saying horses (or stallions), mares,
bulls, and cows?
>But would you say "A bull is a male cow"? I would.
Would you say a man is a male woman?
Charles
Charles Riggs
>Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
>
>> Nope. "Cow" is unmarked, "bull" is marked. It's the only animal I
>> can think of in which the female is the unmarked term.
I have no idea what an unmarked term is, but cows are female and bulls
are male -- it's as simple as that.
Charles
Ben Zimmer
I posted this explanation of markedness the last time the topic came up:
--------------------
http://amor.rz.hu-berlin.de/~h2816i3x/LexSemantik1.pdf
An expression A is a HYPONYM (i.e. an "undername") of an expression B
iff everything that falls under B also falls under A. In this case, B is
called a HYPERONYM (i.e. an "overname"). Examples are 'dog' and
'mammal', 'apple' and 'fruit', 'refrigerator' and 'appliance', 'king'
and 'monarch', 'scarlet' and 'red', 'walk' and 'go'. [...]
It is a frequent situation that one expression can serve as its own
hyponym (so-called AUTOHYPONYMS). We often find this with names of
biological kinds, when gender is a factor. For example, 'dog' is a term
for dogs in general, but can also be used for male dogs and is then
contrasted with 'bitch'. The noun 'cow' is used for female cattle, but
also for cattle in general, whereas 'bull' is used for male cattle only.
In structuralist terms, 'dog' and 'cow' are UNMARKED, and 'bitch' and
'bull' are MARKED. The marked or unmarked status sometimes is reflected
in morphological complexity; cf. 'lion' as the unmarked expression and
'lioness' as the marked expression.
The autohyponym is often the expression that denotes the thing or
concept that is considered more typical or more frequent.
--------------------
Ben Zimmer
No, but there was a time when you could say "a woman is a female man".
Here's the first definition of "man" in the OED:
----------
I. 1. A human being (irrespective of sex or age); = L. homo. In OE. the
prevailing sense.
a. In many OE. instances, and in a few of later date, used explicitly as
a designation equally applicable to either sex. Obs.
[...]
1597 J. KING On Jonas (1618) 480 The Lord had but one paire of men in
Paradise. 1752 HUME Pol. Disc. x. 159 There is in all men, both male and
female, a desire and power of generation more active than is ever
universally exerted. 1793 BURKE Lett., to Comte de Mercy (1844) IV. 144
Such a deplorable havoc is made in the minds of men (both sexes) in
France,..that [etc.].
b. In the surviving use, the sense ‘person’ occurs only in general or
indefinite applications (e.g. with adjs. like every, any, no, and often
in the plural, esp. with all, any, some, many, few, etc.); in modern
apprehension man as thus used primarily denotes the male sex, though by
implication referring also to women.
[...]
----------
This is another good example of markedness. "Man" as an unmarked term
follows a typical pattern: it can refer either to an entire generic
category or else to a subcategory that contrasts with a marked term
("woman"). According to the OED, there are cognates in all Germanic
languages that are similarly unmarked (i.e., the cognates all can denote
either 'human being' or 'adult male human being'). The two senses
coexisted in Old English, though the generic sense was originally the
principal one (gender distinctions were more commonly coded by the
lexical pairs "wer"/"wif" and "woepman"/"wifman"). Eventually in Middle
English "man" overtook "wer" in the non-generic sense of 'male human
being', with "wifman" (<"woman") retained for 'female human being'. But
since "man" has continued to be used in its generic sense as well, the
structural asymmetry of the markedness relationship has been read by
some as inherently sexist. This is quite similar to the development of
"he/his/him" as an unmarked personal pronoun.
--Ben
Evan Kirshenbaum
Good point; I had forgotten about them. But I'm not sure that
"gander" and "drake" are really in my active vocabulary the way that
"bull" is. While I would describe a bull as a "male cow" and lump
bulls in with cows when talking of someone "raising cows", I would
never point to a bull and say "That's a cow". With ducks and geese,
I'd use the general term regardless of sex.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |It is error alone which needs the
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |support of government. Truth can
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |stand by itself.
| Thomas Jefferson
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
fotog
might surmise, in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA.
We are located about 20 miles north of Miami on the Southeast coast of Florida.
fotog
a rudely-awakened cow can be aggressive. Therefore, one is advised to use caution when cow
tipping.
Despite the degree of vacuousness, I'm sure I would exercise significant caution when
approaching any critter that weighs close to a ton, especially if my intent were to knock
it off its feet! Golly, how would you react?
Orne Batmagoo
He can't think of those animals.
--
Orne Batmagoo
Charles Riggs
<bgzi...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>
>Charles Riggs wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 15:30:27 GMT, "Aaron J. Dinkin"
>> <a...@post.harvard.edu> wrote:
>>
>> >But would you say "A bull is a male cow"? I would.
>>
>> Would you say a man is a male woman?
>
>No, but there was a time when you could say "a woman is a female man".
>Here's the first definition of "man" in the OED:
...
I found your explanation most interesting. I had to read it a couple
of times to allow the information to sink in, but since it was worth a
dozen posts on sausages, it was well worth it.
Charles
Peter Moylan
Yes, but bulls get branded on their bums. You can't get more marked
than that.
--
Peter Moylan pe...@ee.newcastle.edu.au
http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au