The Jihad
Graham Weeks
origin second. They cannot become Englishmen or Britons, in any sense
other than the technical. To say that they are Muslims first does not
imply criticism or 'Islamophobia', but is a simple fact of life. So far,
there are no signs in the Muslim world of the secularisation which has
affected large parts of the Christian world, for better or worse, for
the longer or shorter term. Nor is national or nationalist feeling, as
we know it in the West, highly developed, except among Turks and Kurds.
Your Muslim remains homo religiosus. - Sir Alfred Sherman, Islam in
Britain, Right Now!, June 2002.
The vast majority of Muslims here are torn between world Muslim
solidarity and the desire to preserve their status here. They have been
given an easy ride, no bad thing perhaps, but they should not be
encouraged to push their luck too far. I repeat my earlier assertion
that the main problem is not the Muslims - or for that matter Hindus,
Sikhs, Africans, Chinese, etc - but the British, who have lost a sense
of identity which stood them in good stead for centuries, and the will
to preserve it. The Muslim problem is our creation. - Sir Alfred
Sherman, Islam in Britain, Right Now!, June 2002.
The Muslims claim to faith schools should not be a bone of contention.
If Christian parents have the right to a religion-based education for
their children why not Muslim taxpayers? One does not have the right to
impose forcible mixing and, in any case, given residential segregation,
it would not work anyway. Having made the bed of mass alien immigration,
we must lie on it. - Sir Alfred Sherman, Islam in Britain, Right Now!,
June 2002.
We need full and frank discussion of the problems created by the Muslim
presence free from blackmailing accusations of 'xenophobia',
'Islamophobia' or 'racism'. A nation's future and society's peace are at
stake. - Sir Alfred Sherman, Islam in Britain, Right Now!, June 2002.
--
Graham J Weeks M.R.Pharm.S.
http://www.weeks-g.dircon.co.uk/ My homepage of quotations
http://www.grace.org.uk/churches/ealing.html Our church
http://www.weeks-g.dircon.co.uk/speeches_for_sale.htm My speech writing
service
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I believe in getting into hot water; it keeps you clean.-- G.K.
Chesterton
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Daniel P. B. Smith
Graham Weeks <wee...@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
> The Muslims remain Muslims first, and colonists from their region of
> origin second. They cannot become Englishmen or Britons, in any sense
> other than the technical. To say that they are Muslims first does not
> imply criticism or 'Islamophobia', but is a simple fact of life. So far,
> there are no signs in the Muslim world of the secularisation which has
> affected large parts of the Christian world, for better or worse, for
> the longer or shorter term....
>
> The vast majority of Muslims here are torn between world Muslim
> solidarity and the desire to preserve their status here. They have been
> given an easy ride, no bad thing perhaps, but they should not be
> encouraged to push their luck too far....
> - Sir Alfred Sherman, Islam in Britain, Right Now!, June 2002.
Change the words a bit: "John F. Kennedy should never become President
because Catholics remain Catholics first and cannot become Americans in
any sense other than the technical. To say they are Catholics first
does not imply criticism or religious intolerance, but is a simple fact
of life."
For, while this year it may be a Catholic against whom the finger of
suspicion is pointed, in other years it has been, and may someday be
again, a Jew -- or a Quaker -- or a Unitarian -- or a Baptist. It
was Virginia's harassment of Baptist preachers, for example, that
led to Jefferson's statute of religious freedom. Today, I may be the
victim -- but tomorrow it may be you -- until the whole fabric of
our harmonious society is ripped apart at a time of great national
peril.
--John F. Kennedy, address to Southern Baptist leaders, 1960
--
Daniel P. B. Smith
Email address: dpbs...@cocktailwaitress.com
The Sanity Inspector
-- Timurlane
--
bruce
The dignified don't even enter in the game.
--The Jam
The Sanity Inspector
night in separate yards. . . . [they] spent the night in prayer,
repeating passages from their scriptures, and exhorting one another in
constancy. During the night graves or trenches . . . were dug in the
market-place. . . . when these were ready in the morning, Mahomet,
himself a spectator of the tragedy, gave command that the captives
should be brought forth in companies of five and six at a time. Each
company was made to sit down by the brink of the trench destined for
its grave, and there beheaded. Party after party they were thus led
out, and butchered in cold blood, till the whole were slain. . . . For
Zoheir, an aged Jew, who had saved some of his allies of the Bani Aus
. . . Sa'bit intervened and procured a pardon. . . . “But what hath
become of all our chiefs-of Ka'b, of Huwey, of Ozzal, the son of
Samuel?” asked the old man. . . . He received to each inquiry the same
reply;-they had all been slain already-”Then of what use is life to me
any longer? Leave me not to that bloodthirsty man who has killed that
are dear to me in cold blood-But slay me also, I entreat thee. Here
take my sword, it is sharp; strike high and hard.” Sa'bit refused, and
gave him over to another, who under Al'i’s orders beheaded the aged
man.
Having sated his revenge, and drenched the market-place with
the blood of eight hundred victims, and having given command for the
earth to be smoothed over their remains, Mahomet returned from the
horrid spectacle to solace himself with the charms of Rihana, whose
husband and all whose male relatives had just perished in the
massacre. He invited her to be his wife, but she declined, and chose
to remain (as, indeed, having refused marriage, she had no
alternative) his slave or concubine. She also declined the summons to
conversion and continued in the Jewish faith.
-- Sir William Muir, _Life of Mahomet_, v. III
The Sanity Inspector
with unassimilated low-skilled young men, whom the state is obliged to
put on welfare just to keep them from rioting, and hey presto, your
enemies will be funding their own downfall — ON HER MAJESTY'S SOCIAL
SERVICE. Say what you like about that so-called ‘American Taleban',
John Yoko Ashram Fonda Country Joe and the Fish Walker Lindh, but at
least his loopy Marin County parents put him through terrorist
training school on their own nickel and not at the taxpayers' expense.
At the moment, alongside the ranks of Europe's terrorist welfare
queens, Jihad Johnny has the distinction of being the West's only
private-sector Islamabaddy.
-- Mark Steyn, "Who's Ugly Now?",
http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old§ion=current&issue=2002-05-04&id=1824
Graham Weeks
meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror, and while I was sleeping, the keys of
the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's
Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures. - Sahih Al
Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220
Abu Huraira reported that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon hlmg) said: I have been
given superiority over the other prophets in six respects: I have been given words which are
concise but comprehensive in meaning; I have been helped by terror (in the hearts of enemies):
spoils have been made lawful to me: the earth has been made for me clean and a place of
worship; I have been sent to all mankind and the line of prophets is closed with me. - Sahih
Muslim Book 004, Number 1062
The Sanity Inspector
man that it forms.
-- Henri Frederic Amiel
http://www.navexpress.com/911/9.htm
The Sanity Inspector
murdering people in pursuit of something achievable. You know, if
their goal were simply to get McDonald's out of Cairo or our airbases
out of the Gulf. But, if you take them at their word, their ultimate
goal is to bring about the total destruction of democracy, America,
and the Christian and Jewish faiths. As a practical matter, to believe
that this can be achieved through an all-out battle between our team
and theirs is like believing war will make squares into circles and
ducks will crap plutonium.
-- Jonah Goldberg, "Wanting a War They Can't Win",
http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg.asp
The Sanity Inspector
is Islam, a different civilization whose people are convinced of the
superiority of their culture and are obsessed with the inferiority of
their power. The problem for Islam is not the CIA or the U.S.
Department of Defense. It is the West, a different civilization whose
people are convinced of the universality of their culture.
-- Samuel Huntington, _The Clash of Civilizations_
Daniel P. B. Smith
syna...@hotmail.com (The Sanity Inspector) wrote:
> The underlying problem for the West is not Islamic fundamentalism. It
> is Islam, a different civilization whose people are convinced of the
> superiority of their culture and are obsessed with the inferiority of
> their power. The problem for Islam is not the CIA or the U.S.
> Department of Defense. It is the West, a different civilization whose
> people are convinced of the universality of their culture.
> -- Samuel Huntington, _The Clash of Civilizations_
The underlying problem for both civilizations is those on either side
who keep saying that war is inevitable.
The Divine Image
To Mercy Pity Peace and Love
All pray in their distress:
And to these virtues of delight
Return their thankfulness.
For Mercy Pity Peace and Love
Is God our father dear:
And Mercy Pity Peace and Love,
Is Man his child and care.
For Mercy has a human heart
Pity, A human face:
And Love, the human form divine,
And Peace, the human dress.
Then every man of every clime,
That prays in his distress,
Prays to the human form divine
Love Mercy Pity Peace.
And all must love the human form,
In heathen, turk or jew.
Where Mercy, Love and Pity dwell
There God is dwelling too.
--William Blake
--
Daniel P. B. Smith
The National Folk Hero of the Net
>
> The underlying problem for both civilizations is those on either side
> who keep saying that war is inevitable.
There is absolutely no inevitability as long as there is a
willingness to contemplate what is happening.
--H. M. McLuhan
--
Col. G. L. Sicherman
col...@mail.monmouth.com
Frank Lynch
<dpbs...@bellatlantic.net> wrote:
>
>The underlying problem for both civilizations is those on either side
>who keep saying that war is inevitable.
Last week I saw a Molly Ivins column on White House reactions to the
EPA report on global warming, and their resignation that global
warming is inevitable, wherein she pulled out her line on the First
Rule of Holes (stop digging). (It's not the first time she's used it,
btw.)
Frank Lynch
The Samuel Johnson Sound Bite Page is at:
http://www.samueljohnson.com/
Frank Lynch
<frank.lync...@verizon.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 08 Jun 2002 14:49:41 -0400, "Daniel P. B. Smith"
><dpbs...@bellatlantic.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>The underlying problem for both civilizations is those on either side
>>who keep saying that war is inevitable.
>
>Last week I saw a Molly Ivins column on White House reactions to the
>EPA report on global warming, and their resignation that global
>warming is inevitable, wherein she pulled out her line on the First
>Rule of Holes (stop digging). (It's not the first time she's used it,
>btw.)
Forgot my ObQuote, a doozie:
"Patience and submission are very carefully to be distinguished from
cowardice and indolence. We are not to repine, but we may lawfully
struggle; for the calamities of life, like the necessities of nature,
are calls to labour and diligence. When we feel any pressure of
distress, we are not to conclude that we can only obey the will of
Heaven by languishing under it, any more than when we perceive the
pain of thirst, we are to imagine that water is prohibited."
-- Samuel Johnson: Rambler #32
The Sanity Inspector
> In <dpbsmith-820E74...@news.fu>, dpbs...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
> >
> > The underlying problem for both civilizations is those on either side
> > who keep saying that war is inevitable.
>
>
> There is absolutely no inevitability as long as there is a
> willingness to contemplate what is happening.
>
--H. M. McLuhan
The lights are going out all over Europe. We shall not see them lit
again in our lifetime.
-- Lord Grey of Falloden, July 1914
The Sanity Inspector
academe should be thrown out of the window in such an exercise. For,
it is clear that the jihadis are not motivated by economic cravings,
to drive in BMWs, or to indulge in other Western ways of living. Their
struggle is not for wealth, and many of them left wealthy Arab
families. [...]
It is the religion as interpreted by the bearded men on the ground,
running the madrassas, that matters in assessing the aspirations of
jihadis, and not the Islam as interpreted by its relatively few
Westernized liberal voices. Yes, we all wish Islam were more like it
is cranked up to be on American college campuses today, and should
encourage any movement in that direction. But, meanwhile, we must plan
based on what it is perceived to be by those who are driven to such
extremes based on religious dogma.
-- Rajiv Malhotra, "America's Last Chance",
http://www.sulekha.com/column.asp?cid=208080
The Sanity Inspector
-- headline of the San Diego-based _Islam Report_, celebrating an Air
Force accident, early 1990s, quoted in Steven Emerson, "The Other
Fundamentalists," The New Republic, 12 June 1995, p. 30.
David C Kifer
I come with three messages that the Islamic Association for Palestine [IAP]
would like to reiterate. I am going to say them in Arabic and then in English.
Number one: kul philastin min Nahar il al-Bahar, all of Palestine from the
Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. Number two: Kul Philastin Quds, all
Palestine is sacred, not just al-Quds, and number three: Aqsa al alahi eluhum,
our Aqsa is not their temple.
--Raeed Tayah, IAP representative, speaking at a rally at Lafayette Park,
Washington, DC, October 28, 2000, quoted in _American Jihad_ Steven Emerson
Oh noble brothers, the Palestinian cause is not a conflict over borders and
land only. It is not a conflict over peace alone. Rather it is an absolute
clash of civilizations, between truth and falsehood--a conflict between two
inclinations, a Satanic inclination led by Jews and their allies and a divine
inclination, led by Hamas, the entire Islamic movement, and the Islamic people
standing behind them.
--Kamal Helbawi, leader in the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, the keynote speaker
at the Muslim Arab Youth Association conference in Oklahoma City, OK, 1992,
quoted ibid.
[p&e]
--
Dave
"Tam multi libri, tam breve tempus!"
(Et brevis pecunia.) [Et breve spatium.]
The Sanity Inspector
http://www.lileks.com/screed/gal.jpg
This is, or rather was, five-year old Gal Aizenman. She was ripped to
shreds by poison-soaked nails at a Jerusalem bus stop this week. Your
task: find the Western value that says she deserved to die. Find the
Western value that says God wants this child to be blown up in front
of her mother. Find the Western value that insists God not only smiled
upon her death, but welcomed her killer to a whorehouse heaven. Find a
big-league Bishop who commended her killer to paradise, and a
murderer's mother who exulted in this child's extermination.
Last question: you remember that famous, horrible photo of the young
girl fleeing naked from a napalm attack in Vietnam. You may know that
she was treated in Saigon by an American-staffed hospital. She
survived, was held up as a heroine by the Communists, sent to Cuba to
be educated - and she defected to the West for freedom the first
chance she had.
Describe, in as many words as necessary, the likelihood of a neighbor
of Israel giving intensive medical care to Gal, granting her
citizenship, appointing her to an international human rights board,
and writing stories - for domestic newspapers - drenched in shame for
the trauma she suffered.
Assume, for the sake of argument, Gal is alive.
-- James Lileks, http://www.lileks.com/screed/college.html
The Sanity Inspector
Allah loves the little children, all the children of the world.
Red, and yellow, black, and white.
loaded down with dynamite.
Allah loves the little children of the world.
The Sanity Inspector
was a teenager in Europe, all the walls were covered with graffiti
that said, 'Jews, Go to Palestine.' And when he went back to Europe as
an adult, all the walls were covered with graffiti that said, 'Jews,
Get Out of Palestine.' And my father understood this message
perfectly, the emotional meaning of this message, which was: Get out
of here and get out of there. Just don't come to us. Don't be here and
don't be there. In other words, don't be. We may not kill you - that's
dirty, we're not like that, but you will not be. You will die.
--Amos Oz
The Sanity Inspector
like John. Some day I hope--I hope that the government will come
around even further and say that even 20 years is wrong for this boy.
-- Frank Lindh, father of Taliban John,
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0207/15/wbr.00.html
The Sanity Inspector
a matter of principle, and denied that Israel has any right at all to
the Temple Mount, it became clear that the Palestinians were not
prepared for a historical compromise. In their eyes, the talks were
only a way of getting what they wanted - not a painful process of give
and take. That the Palestinian public and its leaders voice broad
support for terrorism against Israeli citizens shows yet again that
all the universal values cherished by the Israeli left mean nothing to
the other side. Whoever expected Yasser Arafat to turn into Nelson
Mandela was proved wrong, but admitting it is hard. Incredibly hard.
For that reason, there are members of the Israeli left who prefer to
labor under the illusion that some compromise can be reached. It is
difficult for them to admit that "peace now," however desirable, is
not possible at the present time. When the other side cannot come up
with a single intellectual prepared to state clearly, without
mumbling, that the murder of children in a pizzeria is a crime, then
the Israeli left has no ally...
It was hard for those seduced by the charms of the Soviet Union to see
that it was a ruthless, oppressive country, but that was truth. Just
as intellectual honesty enabled the foremost intellectuals of the
Western world, smitten by
the idea of a new dawn in Moscow, to admit that "god [-Stalin -] had
failed," one hopes that the excruciating process of facing up to the
truth will enable the Israeli left to accept a solution that is
capable of ending much of
the occupation today.
If not, they are liable to find themselves - dialectically, if one can
say such a thing - among those who perpetuate the occupation. For the
solution they propose, there is no partner on the other side. It
hurts, but that is the truth.
-- Prof. Shlomo Avineri, _Ha'aretz_ op-ed, August 24, 2001
The Sanity Inspector
Americans thought like Arabs?
They wouldn't be like anything at all, of course. There wouldn't be
any Palestinians.
-- Prof. Glenn Reynolds,
http://www.instapundit.com/archives/002737.php#002737
Graham J Weeks
and wishes to be rewarded to comply with Allah's order to kill the
Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find
it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to
launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters
allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that
they
may learn a lesson. - Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders World
Islamic Front Statement 23 February 1998 Shaykh Usamah Bin-Muhammad
Bin-Ladin et al
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm
So we are all Salam Rushdie now :-(
--
Graham J Weeks M.R.Pharm.S.
http://www.weeks-g.dircon.co.uk/ My homepage of quotations
http://www.grace.org.uk/churches/ealing.html Our church
http://www.weeks-g.dircon.co.uk/speeches_for_sale.htm My speech writing
service
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The secret of eternal youth is arrested development. Alice Roosevelt
Longworth
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Sanity Inspector
hatred still exists; and when it emerges, we feel uncomfortable. We
do everything we can to change the subject. Why the denial, I ask
myself? What is it about this sickness that we do not understand by
now? And what possible excuse do we have not to expose and confront
it with all the might we have?
-- Andrew Sullivan, of anti-semitism
David C Kifer
>
> We in the West simply do not want to believe that this kind of
> hatred still exists; and when it emerges, we feel uncomfortable. We
> do everything we can to change the subject. Why the denial, I ask
> myself? What is it about this sickness that we do not understand by
> now? And what possible excuse do we have not to expose and confront
> it with all the might we have?
> -- Andrew Sullivan, of anti-semitism
I was going to post this separately, but I think it fits here rather well...
...it is a paradox of the 21st century that in this age of technological
wonders the threats to our lives, wealth and order are fundamentally,
crudely human. We may diagram bunkers, bombs and entire armies, but we
falter at understanding the human soul. Nor will the human heart fit into
our templates. Love, fear and hatred, not machines, are the stuff of which
wars are made, whether we speak of terrorist jihads, campaigns of ethnic
cleansing or conventional offensives (and do not underestimate the deadly
power of love, whether felt toward a god, a people, a clan, a flag or an
individual).
--Ralph Peters, "The Black Art of Intelligence", _The American Spectator_,
July/August 2002
Without such understanding, we are reduced to the retaliatory exercise of
power and expressions of regret for preventable losses. There is no lack of
bravery in the ranks of our armed forces, but bureaucratic cowardice rules
in our intelligence establishment (as well as at the highest levels of
military command).
--ibid.
Ultimately, intelligence work comes down to dealing with humanity. After all
the calls are intercepted and the missiles counted, the back accounts
monitored and the nerve gas canisters located, we still need to look inside
the minds, hearts and souls of other human beings. And unlike the mechanical
and electronic things of which we are so proud, human beings are not fully
predictable or understandable, even to themselves. Contrary to the wisdom of
Washington and the academic world, human beings are not rational beings. Laws,
customs and enlightened self-interest may drive men and women to behave
predictably some of the time--in daylight, on a peaceful street, but in the
dark night of the soul or in the stunning midnight of atrocity, the rational
man descends into the feral, instinctive, vividly mad descendant of Cain.
--ibid.
Those who insist that all things are knowable and that men and women act
rationally have been on one side of the stadium of mankind for centuries,
while the opposing bleachers have been filled by those who insist that even
the light of reason casts dark shadows and that man's nature is never fully
knowable. In our technologically advanced culture, the power of systems easily
seduces the multitude to believe that machines are, or soon will be,
omnipotent--an enduring myth. But at the most elementary, unshakable level, we
have barely begun to understand the complexities, motivations and patterns of
human behavior. The frightened cling to the tangible, and the worried demand
simple answers.
--ibid.
Gareth Owen
in U.S bombing attacks [roughly equivalent to about 38'000 U.S civilian or
the equivalent of eleven World Trade Center attacks]. We present the voices
of Afghan refugees speaking about the U.S bombings in Appendix 1, which
present qualitative corroboration of our figures."
-- Professor Marc W. Herold Ph.D., M.B.A., B.Sc.
"A Dossier on Civilian Victims of United States'
Aerial Bombing of Afghanistan: A Comprehensive Accounting"
http://www.zmag.org/herold.htm
I don't know which baffles (and, perversely, entertains) me more, the
unexplained equivalence of 1 Afghan with 10 US lives, or the concept of
"qualitative corroboration" of figures.
ObRefToOED : QUALITATIVE: a. Relating to, connected or concerned with, quality
or qualities. Now usually in implied or expressed opposition to
quantitative.
QUANTITATIVE: a. Relating to, concerned with, quantity or its
measurement; ascertaining or expressing quantity.
--
Gareth Owen
You have selected "Agent Zero". If this is correct, press 1.
alohacyberian
<r5ir8h4...@gill.maths.keele.ac.uk>...
>
> I don't know which baffles (and, perversely, entertains) me more, the
> unexplained equivalence of 1 Afghan with 10 US lives, or the concept of
> "qualitative corroboration" of figures.
>
those people lost off their lifespans and how much that would be in dog
years.
"Sometimes people do get hurt."
~ Mark Twain, _The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn_
--
(-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or
visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/
William C Waterhouse
In article <r5ir8h4...@gill.maths.keele.ac.uk>,
Gareth Owen <use...@gwowen.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
> "When the sun set on December 6th, at least 3,767 Afghan civilians had died
> in U.S bombing attacks [roughly equivalent to about 38'000 U.S civilian or
>
> I don't know which baffles (and, perversely, entertains) me more, the
>....
This was perhaps merely sarcastic, but I suppose an explanation
might be given anyway, as the idea is used fairly often: the
numbers represent equal percentages of the total populations
of the two countries.
William C. Waterhouse
Penn State
ObQuote:
JOHNSON. "Were I a country gentleman, I should not
be very hospitable, I should not have crowds in my house."
BOSWELL. "Sir Alexander Dick tells me, that he remembers having a
thousand people in a year to dine at his house: that is,
reckoning each person as one, each time that he dined there."
JOHNSON. "That, Sir, is about three a day."
BOSWELL. "How your statement lessens the idea."
JOHNSON. "That, Sir, is the good of counting. It brings every thing
to a certainty, which before floated in the mind indefinitely."
--- Boswell, _Life of Johnson_, April 1783.
The Sanity Inspector
Why is 'correct' opinion in Europe so determinedly in favor of
the Arabs?
Mark Kleiman's answer:
One guess is that the role of the Jew in European mythos is to
suffer nobly, giving the Christians both the pleasure of persecution
and the more refined pleasure of regretting it. A Jew who fights back
is, in Sartre's terms, "inauthentic."
-- Eugene Volokh,
http://volokh.blogspot.com/2002_08_18_volokh_archive.html#85360619
The Sanity Inspector
Why is 'correct' opinion in Europe so determinedly in favor of
the Arabs?
Mark Kleiman's answer:
One guess is that the role of the Jew in European mythos is to
suffer nobly, giving the Christians both the pleasure of persecution
and the more refined pleasure of regretting it. A Jew who fights back
is, in Sartre's terms, "inauthentic."
-- Eugene Volokh,
http://volokh.blogspot.com/2002_08_18_volokh_archive.html#85360619
--
The Sanity Inspector
Why is 'correct' opinion in Europe so determinedly in favor of the
Arabs?
Mark Kleiman's answer:
One guess is that the role of the Jew in European mythos is to suffer
nobly, giving the Christians both the pleasure of persecution and the
more refined pleasure of regretting it. A Jew who fights back is, in
Sartre's terms, "inauthentic."
-- Eugene Volokh, http://volokh.blogspot.com/2002_08_18_volokh_archive.html#85360619
--
Ananya
> I've been aware of madness in the Islamic world. I've written about
> it. The madness of people who have fallen behind technically, and who
> do not have the will to make the intellectual effort to catch up. I
> was aware of the religious hatred, I was aware of the indifference to
> life. I was aware of the anti-civilisation aspect of the new
> fundamentalism. But [until 9-11] I had no idea it had gone so far —
> the madness. The idea of their strength is an illusion. Nothing is
> coming from within. The terrorists can fly a plane, but what they
> can't do is build a plane. What they can't do is build those towers. I
> think people have spoken much rubbish about that event. The poor
> revenging themselves on the rich! It's nothing but an aspect of
> religious hatred. And that is so hard to deal with, or even
> contemplate. You can deal with the poor striking out, but you can't
> deal with the threat of a universal religious war.
>
> -- V. S. Naipaul, interview,
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,923-376214,00.html
This one is really hard hitting, but I think it really applies here:
The U.S. is without a doubt the greatest show on the road. Brutal,
indifferent, scornful, and ruthless it may be but it's also very
smart. As a salesperson it's out on its own. And its most saleable
commodity is self-love. It's a winner. The U.S. has actually educated
it self to be in love with itself. Listen to Clinton-and before him,
Bush and before him, Reagan and before him, all the others-say on
television the words: "The American People" as in the sentence "I say
to the American People it is time to pray and to defend the rights of
the American People and I ask the American People to trust their
president in the action he is about to take on behalf of the American
People." A nation weeps. It's a pretty brilliant stratagem. Language
is actually employed to keep thought at bay. The words The American
People provide a truly voluptuous cushion of reassurance. You don't
need to think. Just lie back on the cushion. The cushion may be
suffocating your intelligence and your critical faculties but you
don't know that. Nobody tells you. So the status quo remains where it
is and Father Christmas remains American and America remains the Land
of the Free and the Home of the Brave.
-- Harold Pinter, _It never happened_
-
much love, light and laughter,
ananya.
The Sanity Inspector
eternal reproof of that record, crying hypocrisy and betrayal, is
Christianity itself, quitessentially embodied in the example of Jesus.
In the case of Islam, the charge of hypocrisy hardly
applies--certainly not on the matter of religious violence. To put
the issue at its starkest, there is simply no equivalent in the Koran
to the New Testament's admonishment to "turn the other cheek";
conversely, there is no equivalent in the New Testament to the Koranic
injunction to "kill the disbelievers wherever you find them".
-- William Bennett, _Why We Fight: Moral Clarity and the War on
Terrorism_, 2002
--
bruce
The dignifie don't even enter in the game.
-- The Jam
Sr. Eveline
Koran
>to the New Testament's admonishment to "turn the other cheek";
>conversely, there is no equivalent in the New Testament to the Koranic
>injunction to "kill the disbelievers wherever you find them".
In the interest of fair debate ..the excerpt of Koran scripture cited refers
to a situation of war not murder, and the verse reads..
Then when the sacred months have passed, kill the disbelievers wherever you
find them, and capture them and besiege them and prepare for them each and
every stratagem. But if they repent and perform prayers and give charity,
then leave their way free. Verily Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
OBQ
Live peaceably with all men. If you can do so. Sometimes it is impossible.
Sometimes sinners are exceedingly mad against the saints.
~ The Christian Bible, Romans 12.18 [Tr. B. W. Johnson, The People's New
Testament (1891)]
Sr. Eveline
+ aliud et idem +
The Sanity Inspector
<EVE...@chariotXCAPS.net.au> just wrote!
>>To put the issue at its starkest, there is simply no equivalent in the
>Koran
>>to the New Testament's admonishment to "turn the other cheek";
>>conversely, there is no equivalent in the New Testament to the Koranic
>>injunction to "kill the disbelievers wherever you find them".
>+++++++++++++
>
>In the interest of fair debate ..the excerpt of Koran scripture cited refers
>to a situation of war not murder, [...]
But the Islamic clerics cannot agree which category Islamic terrorism
falls under. Similar confusion about such acts may exist among
Christian clergy in Northern Ireland, but not many other places.
Obquote:
Whatever makes men good Christians, makes them good citizens.
-- Daniel Webster, speech Plymouth December 22, 1820
--
bruce
The dignified don't even enter in the game.
--The Jam
Sr. Eveline
refers
> >to a situation of war not murder, [...]
> But the Islamic clerics cannot agree which category Islamic terrorism
> falls under
+++++++++++++
Indeed.....but the fact remains that in the context here *kill
disbelievers wherever you find them* is not a sanction of wholesale murder
due simply to a difference of faith but involves a perception of war (even a
*wrong* perception of war)
Surely adherents of every faith are capable of equal hypocrisy and use of
scriptural *justification* - about war or a myriad of other issues?
OBQ
For neither man nor angel can discern
Hypocrisy, the only evil that walks
Invisible except to God alone
~John Milton, Paradise Lost, bk 3
The Sanity Inspector
> Indeed.....but the fact remains that in the context here *kill
> disbelievers wherever you find them* is not a sanction of wholesale murder
> due simply to a difference of faith but involves a perception of war (even a
> *wrong* perception of war)
Check.
> Surely adherents of every faith are capable of equal hypocrisy and use of
> scriptural *justification* - about war or a myriad of other issues?
That's the scary part. There's enough scriptural justification for
aggression in Islam, in the Koran and the Hadiths, to remove the
charge of hypocrisy from the jihadists.
Obquotes:
Islam is what Islam does.
-- Jamie Glazov
Over here, I slam the door in their faces; over there, they chop off
their heads.
-- Neal Boortz, on the murder of Jehovah's Witnesses in the
Philippines by the Abu Sayyaf separatists
Daniel P. B. Smith
George W. Bush is planning to turn the other cheek?
"Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them
that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you,
and persecute you."
--Matthew 5:44
Oh, wait, I forgot, Jesus didn't really MEAN any of that...
--
Daniel P. B. Smith
dpbs...@theworld.com
The Sanity Inspector
<dpbs...@bellatlantic.net> just wrote!
>George W. Bush is planning to turn the other cheek?
>
> "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them
> that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you,
> and persecute you."
>
> --Matthew 5:44
>
>Oh, wait, I forgot, Jesus didn't really MEAN any of that...
Pacifism is a personal decision, certainly not one that a CIC
can impose on the entire citizenry. What if some people *want* the
Defense Department to defend us?
Obquote:
George W. Bush had a rare opportunity after 11 September. He
could have attempted to reverse the most toxic tide in the Western
world: the sappy multiculturalism that insists all cultures are
equally valid, even as they’re trying to kill us. He could have argued
that Western self-loathing is a psychosis we can no longer afford. He
could have told the teachers’ unions that there was more to the second
world war than the internment of Japanese-Americans, and it’s time
they started teaching it to our children. A couple of days after 11
September, I wrote in these pages, ‘Those Western nations who spent
last week in Durban finessing and nuancing evil should understand now
that what is at stake is whether the world’s future will belong to
liberal democracy and the rule of law, or to darker forces.’ But a
year later, after a brief hiccup, the Western elites have resumed
finessing and nuancing evil all the more enthusiastically, and the
‘compassionate conservative’ shows no stomach for a fight at least as
important as any on the battlefield. The Islamists are militarily weak
but culturally secure. A year on, the West is just the opposite.
There’s more than one way to lose a war.
-- Mark Steyn, "The war Bush is losing",
http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old§ion=current&issue=2002-08-24&id=2179
--
bruce
The dignified don't even enter in the game.
--The Jam
The Sanity Inspector
the paupers ..., for those in bondage and debt, and for the
wayfarers." All these are conventional recipients of charity. The
funds are also to be used for the "bureaucracy," those who collect and
administer the funds. But two other items are also mentioned which
deserve special attention. The funds are to be used in "the service
of Allah" ... and for "gaining over [or reconciling, or inclining] the
hearts ... " to Islam (QurAn 9:60).
In the technical vocabulary of Islam, the first phrase, "in the
service, or way, of Allah," means religious warfare, or jihad. Zakat
funds are to be spent on buying arms, equipment, and horses. The
second phrase, "gaining over, or reconciling, hearts," means "bribes"
in unadorned language. The faith of new converts should be
strengthened with the help of generous "gifts," and that of
adversaries should be subverted by the same means. This was an
important limb of the Prophet's religious offensive and diplomacy, and
as the Quranic verse shows, it had for the Prophet, as it still has
for his followers, a heavenly sanction.
-- Ram Swarup, "The Poor Tax", _Understanding Islam Through Hadis",
http://www.bharatvani.org/books/uith/ch4.htm
--
bruce
The dignified don't even enter in the game.
-- The Jam
The Sanity Inspector
Muhayyisa b. Mas`ud leapt upon Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish merchant with
whom they had social and business relations, and killed him. Huwayyisa
was not a Muslim at the time though he was the elder brother. When
Muhayyisa killed him Huwayyisa began to beat him, saying, 'You enemy
of God, did you kill him when much of the fat on your belly comes from
his wealth?' Muhayyisa answered, 'Had the one who ordered me to kill
him ordered me to kill you I would have cut your head off.' He said
that this was the beginning of Huwayyisa's acceptance of Islam. The
other replied, 'By God, if Muhammad had ordered you to kill me would
you have killed me?' He said, 'Yes, by God, had he ordered me to cut
off your head I would have done so.' He exclaimed, 'By God, a religion
which can bring you to this is marvellous!' and he became a Muslim.
-- ibn Ishaq, _Sirat Rasul Allah_ as translated by A. Guillaume, _The
Life of Muhammad_, page 369
PollyC
Language
> is actually employed to keep thought at bay. The words The American
> People provide a truly voluptuous cushion of reassurance. You don't
> need to think. Just lie back on the cushion. The cushion may be
> suffocating your intelligence and your critical faculties but you
> don't know that. Nobody tells you. So the status quo remains where it
> is and Father Christmas remains American and America remains the Land
> of the Free and the Home of the Brave.
> -- Harold Pinter, _It never happened_
The lure of the American dream has long rested upon a desire to imitate or
share the values of the US. The risk today , however is that a new tide of
anti-Americanism is growing around the world, and it feeds upon the image of
a uni-lateral, militaristic, self-absorbed super-power.
Such an outcome would be a cruel post-script to the September 11 tragedy.
~ Paul Kelly, "The Indispensable Nation", The Weekend Australian, (July 20
2002)
PollyC
ąąąąąąąąąąąąąąą
Frank Lynch
Democrats and everyone else -- witnessed what hate is capable of.
Since that day, Americans have tried to remember that they are on the
same side, regardless of differences in skin color, nation of origin,
religion or political viewpoint. It has not always been easy because,
more than ever, those who are different can seem more threatening. But
we're trying because what we have in America is worth keeping.
-- http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/opinion/3977402.htm
Frank Lynch
The Samuel Johnson Sound Bite Page is at:
http://www.samueljohnson.com/
The Sanity Inspector
have forestalled the slaughter in Manhattan? It would take a moral
cretin to suggest anything of the sort; the cadres of the new jihad
make it very apparent that their quarrel is with Judaism and
secularism on principle, not with (or not just with) Zionism. They
regard the Saudi regime not as the extreme authoritarian theocracy
that it is, but as something too soft and lenient. The Taliban forces
viciously persecute the Shiite minority in Afghanistan. The Muslim
fanatics in Indonesia try to extirpate the infidel minorities there;
civil society in Algeria is barely breathing after the fundamentalist
assault.
-- Christopher Hitchens
The Sanity Inspector
The Sanity Inspector
attack the World Trade Center, and fingers point at Israel. I have
lived to know a world where an Israeli prime minister is indicted for
war crimes because Christians killed Muslims in Lebanon. I have lived
to see an era that has Palestinians genocide-bombing Israelis up to
four times a week and people blaming Israelis. I've made it to a place
in time where Muslims storm a Christian church in Bethlehem, and a
priest inside scolds the Israeli military for the ensuing destruction.
I'm living in a time when people can drop the word "Israelis"
altogether to openly ask, "How many times are we going to fight for
the Jews?" I have made it to a time in which there is civil debate on
TV over whether terrorism against Jews counts as terrorism.
-- Julia Gorin, "No Better Time to be a Jew in America",
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/julia/gorin1.asp for Sept. 11, 2002
Well, the Jews have been asking for it, and now, thank Heavens, we can
say what we think.
-- unidentified member of the House of Lords, quoted by various
British columnists.
PollyC
up to
>four times a week and people blaming Israelis.
<snip>
> Well, the Jews have been asking for it, and now, thank Heavens, we can
> say what we think.
> -- unidentified member of the House of Lords, quoted by various
> British columnists.
北北北北北北北
Sure sounds like a very Stern approach to me!
btw Do they have any history lessons in US schools? Wondering....
OBQ
The disadvantage of men not knowing the past is that they do not know the
present. History is a hill or high point of vantage, from which alone men
see the town in which they live or the age in which they are living.
~G.K. Chesterton , All I Survey (1933)
PollyC
北北北北北北北
The Sanity Inspector
wrote!
>> Well, the Jews have been asking for it, and now, thank Heavens, we can
>> say what we think.
>> -- unidentified member of the House of Lords, quoted by various
>> British columnists.
>北北北北北北北
>Sure sounds like a very Stern approach to me!
>
>btw Do they have any history lessons in US schools? Wondering....
I'll risk assuming that you're referring to the Stern gang,
which murdered some British officers in mandate Palestine. One such
killing was the subject of Elie Wiesel's novel _Dawn_.
Such things happened in a lot of British colonies and
protectorates: Cyprus, Iraq, India, etc. I haven't heard any modern
British officials wishing extermination on the citizens of those
countries, though.
Obquote:
Bigotry has no head, and cannot think; no heart, and cannot
feel. When she moves, it is in wrath; when she pauses it is amidst
ruin; her prayers are curses--her God is a demon--her communion is
death.
-- Daniel O'Connell, 1775-1847
PollyC
> which murdered some British officers in mandate Palestine. One such
> killing was the subject of Elie Wiesel's novel _Dawn_
And I am assuming you would be referring to Elie Wiesel the famous death
camp survivor and Jewish advocate. I think when it comes to history
commentary reference to someone with a little less *angst* may be
preferable.
Please understand my deep and total commitment to Israel: if you could
remember what I remember, you would understand. Israel is the only nation
in the world whose existence is threatened. Should Israel lose but one war,
it would mean her end and ours as well.
~Elie Wiesel, Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech 1986
> Such things happened in a lot of British colonies and
> protectorates: Cyprus, Iraq, India, etc. I haven't heard any modern
> British officials wishing extermination on the citizens of those
> countries, though.
You haven't? Where have you been?
....While remaining silent on Israel, Blair is alone in Europe in his
promotion of an attack on Iraq, a nation of 22 million people with whom the
British have no quarrel.
~John Pilger, How dare George Bush preach peace to Israel when he's meeting
Blair to plan war on Iraq .. and the deaths of thousands more innocent
people? April 5 2002
http://pilger.carlton.com/print/101687
I think it's monstrous, criminal and despicable, and I think Tony Blair has
betrayed every principle that we voted for in 1997.... The sanctions are
killing
even more people, and people in this country seem to be resigned to it. It's
a profound betrayal.
~Harold Pinter, Independent on Sunday, 18 February 2001
PollyC
北北北北北北北
The Sanity Inspector
> > I'll risk assuming that you're referring to the Stern gang,
> > which murdered some British officers in mandate Palestine. One such
> > killing was the subject of Elie Wiesel's novel _Dawn_
>
> And I am assuming you would be referring to Elie Wiesel the famous death
> camp survivor and Jewish advocate. I think when it comes to history
> commentary reference to someone with a little less *angst* may be
> preferable.
"Angst"! Now it's my turn to cringe. Angst is what Woody Allen
suffers from.
Obquote:
The commitment still stands and the oath is still valid: that we will
continue this long jihad, this difficult jihad... via deaths, via
sacrifices.
-- Yasser Arafat, in a speech given at Al-Azhar University in Gaza on
19 June 1995 (The Jerusalem Post, 3 August 1995)
PollyC
> suffers from.
Then you haven't read Elie Wiesel's Night...... one of the few books to
reduce me to sobbing ..not only because what man can do to man on a physical
level, but for what had been done to the emotions and *soul* of Holocaust
"survivor"
OBQs
angst
n : an acute but unspecific feeling of anxiety; usually reserved for
philosophical anxiety about the world or about personal freedom.....often
accompanied by depression.
Never shall I forget that night, the first night in camp, which has turned
my life into one long night, seven times cursed and seven times sealed.
......... Never shall I forget those flames, which consumed my faith
forever. Never shall I forget that nocturnal silence which deprived me for
all eternity of the desire to live. Never shall I forget those moments which
murdered my God and my soul and turned my dreams to dust.
~Elie Wiesel, Night
The real question is: 'Given what people are, why doesn't it happen more
often?' Of course, it does, in subtler forms...."
~ Woody Allen, screenplay, Hannah and her Sisters (1986)...character
speaking of Auschwitz
If only God would give me some sign. If He would just speak to me once,
anything, one sentence, two words. If He would just cough.
~Woody Allen, screenplay, Love and Death (1975)
Re-Obq: Should Israel lose but one war, it would mean her end and ours as
well.
~Elie Wiesel, Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech 1986
PollyC
北北北北北北北
The Sanity Inspector
Bin Laden looks every inch the mountain warrior of mujahedin legend.
Chadored children danced in front of him, preachers acknowledged his
wisdom. ''We have been waiting for this road through all the
revolutions in Sudan,'' a sheikh said. ''We waited until we had given
up on everybody - and then Osama Bin Laden came along.''
Outside Sudan, Mr Bin Laden is not regarded with quite such
high esteem. The Egyptian press claims he brought hundreds of former
Arab fighters back to Sudan from Afghanistan, while the Western
embassy circuit in Khartoum has suggested that some of the ''Afghans''
whom this Saudi entrepreneur flew to Sudan are now busy training for
further jihad wars in Algeria, Tunisia and Egypt. Mr Bin Laden is well
aware of this. ''The rubbish of the media and the embassies,'' he
calls it. ''I am a construction engineer and an agriculturalist. If I
had training camps here in Sudan, I couldn't possibly do this job."
-- Robert Fisk, "Anti-Soviet warrior puts his army on the road
to peace", _The Independent_, December 6, 1993
The Sanity Inspector
fighting to eliminate you.
-- former Hezbollah leader Hussein Massawi
The Sanity Inspector
to U.S. policy will deflect them. And the more inventively you try to
''explain'' the Islamist psychosis as a rational phenomenon to be
accommodated, the more you risk sounding just as nutty as them. Take
former President Bill Clinton (please), who thinks Sept. 11 was
blowback for 1095 A.D.:
''Those of us who come from various European lineages are not
blameless. In the First Crusade, when the Christian soldiers took
Jerusalem, they first burned a synagogue with 300 Jews in it, and
proceeded to kill every woman and child who was Muslim on the Temple
Mount. I can tell you that that story is still being told today in the
Middle East and we are still paying for it.''
You know something? Call me an ''arrogant cowboy,'' but I honestly
think I am blameless for the First Crusade. It was 1095. That's 907
years. Even Paula Jones would have settled. If ever there was an
occasion for the great Clintonian invocation that ''we need to move
on,'' a grudge over the First Crusade is surely it.
-- Mark Steyn, "Place blame where it belongs",
http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn/cst-edt-steyn22.html
The Sanity Inspector
including three at Harvard, to hear what they had to say about the
word jihad, what it means. Some claimed jihad can involve military
force, but only defensively. Most did not refer to any military
dimension, but — unbelievably — stated that jihad involves such
efforts as controling one's anger, working for feminism, or combating
apartheid. This is an extraordinary failing, for jihad actually means
expanding the realm of Muslim-controlled lands through military force.
It is an offensive idea. The country needs to understand this word,
and what it means when Osama bin Laden declares jihad on it.
University specialists are not only failing to explain this, but they
are actually deceiving the public.
-- Daniel Pipes, quoted at http://www.danielpipes.org/article/480
Daniel P. B. Smith
syna...@hotmail.com (The Sanity Inspector) wrote:
Those reprehensible academics... imagine, they unbelievably used the
word in its dictionary meaning, instead of its Pipes meaning.
Guess what? "Jihad" and "crusade" are synonyms.
"Jihad, n. 1. A Muslim holy war or spiritual struggle against infidels.
2. A crusade or struggle: "The war against smoking is turning into a
jihad against people who smoke" (Fortune)." --American Heritage
Dictionary, 4th edition.
The Sanity Inspector
<dpbs...@bellatlantic.net> just wrote!
>Guess what? "Jihad" and "crusade" are synonyms.
>
>"Jihad, n. 1. A Muslim holy war or spiritual struggle against infidels.
>2. A crusade or struggle: "The war against smoking is turning into a
>jihad against people who smoke" (Fortune)." --American Heritage
>Dictionary, 4th edition.
When accusing the West of imperialism, Muslims are obsessed
with the Christian Crusades but have forgotten their own, much grander
Jihad. In fact, they often denounce the Crusades as the cause and
starting point of the antagonism between Christianity and Islam. They
are putting the cart before the horse. The Jihad is more than four
hundred years older than the Crusades.
-- Paul Fregosi, _Jihad in the West: Muslim Conquests from the
7th to the 21st Centuries_
PollyC
>
> Those reprehensible academics... imagine, they unbelievably used the
> word in its dictionary meaning, instead of its Pipes meaning.
Dr. MAHER HATHOUT ( Senior Advisor, Muslim Public Affairs Council): Yeah,
let me address a couple of basic things. I don't think that the definition
of Islam is up to Daniel Pipes or to anybody else, it is up to the Muslims
according to their text and according to the language of their text to put
their definitions. And it is unfair that every time someone wants to broaden
the definition to project the right perspective-the broad perspective,
jihad, somebody jumps and says, 'Don't believe him. This is not what he
means. He's lying, basically.' This is wrong. The second thing is the issue
of what that person is going to say or not going to say. This is censorship
in the greatest institution of intellectuality, which I think is a very
degrading situation
Mr. PIPES: I'm sure that Dr. Hathout-I'm sure that Hathout-Dr. Hathout is an
excellent cardiologist, but he knows very little about the history of Islam
which is my subject. And by the way, I got my BA and....
~Interview conducted by Chris Bury, ABC News Nightline June 4, 2002
PollyC
±±±±±±±±±±±±±±
alohacyberian
<dpbsmith-994B88...@news.fu-berlin.de>...
of the word "jihad". What matters is what the terrorists who use the word
mean and what they are trying to communicate when they're using the word.
KM
OBQ:
"A loud voice cannot compete with a clear voice, even if it's a whisper."
~ Bary Neal Kaufman
--
(-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or
visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/
Ananya
For a hundred years, the capitalist regimes of the West have withstood
violent assaults. Should they for that reason be considered
legitimate?
-- Albert Camus, _The Rebel (1951)_
-
much love, light and laughter,
ananya.
The Sanity Inspector
doomed but stout-hearted infidels, in glorious squadrons resembling
tulip-strewn mountains. In a festival of battle, they were at once
dyed red like goblets of wine, their heads like the flower of the
Judas tree, their eyes like shining cornelian, their hands like
coral... [the battle continued] until the rim of the heavenly
hippodrome was tarnished by the bloodstains of sunset...the evil-doing
[Hungarian] king...advanced into the battlefield, amid a cloud of dust
that shrouded both east and west...undaunted by the fire of guns and
muskets, with a stout heart impervious to fear, he led a charge of his
headlong cavalry, charging at one bound against the janissaries, the
bravest of brave soldiers...he reached the batteries, where the
musketeers greeted him with a deadly hail of fire that withered the
flowers in the garden of the evildoing enemy's unavailing
existence....
At the Sultan's command, the janissary musketeers, fired
volleys against the enemy...and in an instant sent hundreds, or rather
thousands, of them straight to Hell...the scroll of [the kings'] time
was folded, the circuit of his days of command was concluded, the
record of his transient life was sealed with the loss both of this
world and of the next.
-- Kemalpashazade, of the battle of Mohacs, 1526, quoted in
Bernard Lewis' _The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2,000
Years_.
PollyC
> [Hungarian] king...advanced into the battlefield, amid a cloud of dust
> that shrouded both east and west...undaunted by the fire of guns and
> muskets, with a stout heart impervious to fear, he led a charge of his
> headlong cavalry, charging at one bound against the janissaries, the
> bravest of brave soldiers...he reached the batteries, where the
> musketeers greeted him with a deadly hail of fire that withered the
> flowers in the garden of the evildoing enemy's unavailing
> existence....
> At the Sultan's command, the janissary musketeers, fired
> volleys against the enemy...and in an instant sent hundreds, or rather
> thousands, of them straight to Hell...the scroll of [the kings'] time
> was folded, the circuit of his days of command was concluded, the
> record of his transient life was sealed with the loss both of this
> world and of the next.
> -- Kemalpashazade, of the battle of Mohacs, 1526,
Underestimating one's enemy perhaps?
OBQ
While we were engaged in pitching our tents, some removing their luggage,
others occupied in diverse ways, the king spoke to the Polish and Czech bans
as follows: "The Turks set up camp because they are afraid of us, and want
to ask for mercy." Having said this he became overconfident and divided his
army into three groups. He sent one group against the Rumelian army, another
against the Anatolian, whereas himself, with his army of hundreds of
thousands, all helpmates of the devil, fell straight upon the middle army of
Sultan Suleyman, like a mountain of iron.
~ Lufti, Grand Vezir and historian, [ account from a captured soldier of
Tomori's army] quoted in Geza Perjes, The Fall of the Medieval Kingdom of
Hungary: Mohacs 1526-Buda 1541
PollyC
北北北北北北北
The Sanity Inspector
wrote!
>Dr. MAHER HATHOUT ( Senior Advisor, Muslim Public Affairs Council): Yeah,
>let me address a couple of basic things. I don't think that the definition
>of Islam is up to Daniel Pipes or to anybody else, it is up to the Muslims
>according to their text and according to the language of their text to put
>their definitions. And it is unfair that every time someone wants to broaden
>the definition to project the right perspective-the broad perspective,
>jihad, somebody jumps and says, 'Don't believe him. This is not what he
>means. He's lying, basically.' This is wrong.
War is deception.
-- The Prophet, hadith
Ananya
...Ahem! The Two-Faced West. Governments in the rich world are keen to
export the notion of civil and political rights. But this cause is
weakened by their past hypocrisy in dealing with the human-rights
records of their allies — and their opponents. The history of the West
is as apalling as that of the Moslems.
ObQuote:
In 1987, the 470th Military Intelligence Brigade took the School of
Americas lesson plans and turned them into textbooks: Handling of
Sources, Guerrillas and Communist Ideology, Counterintelligence,
Revolutionary War, Terrorism and the Urban Guerrilla, Interrogation,
Combat Intelligence, and Analysis 1. These manuals were then used by
US trainers in Latin America and distributed to Latin American
intelligence schools in Colombia, Ecuador, El Salvador, and Peru. They
came full circle back to the SOA in 1989 when they were reintroduced
as reading materials in military intelligence courses attended by
students from Bolivia, Colombia, Costa Rica, the Dominican Republic,
Ecuador, Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico, Peru, and Venezuela. The US
government estimates that as many as 1,000 copies may have been
distributed at the SOA and throughout Latin America.
From start to finish, six of the seven Army manuals are how-to-guides
on repressive techniques. Throughout their 1,100 plus pages, there are
few mentions of democracy, human rights, or the rule of law. Instead,
there are detailed techniques for infiltrating social movements,
interrogating suspects, surveillance, maintaining military secrecy,
recruiting and retaining spies, and controlling the population. While
the excerpts released by the Pentagon to the press are a useful and
not misleading selection of the most egregious passages-the ones most
clearly advocating torture, execution, and blackmail-they do not
reveal the manuals' highly objectionable framework. In the name of
defending democracy, the manuals advocate profoundly undemocratic
methods. Just as objectionable as the methods they advocate is the
fundamental disregard for the differences between armed insurgencies
and lawful political and civic opposition-an attitude that led to the
deaths of hundreds of thousands of Latin American civilians.
... You'd do good to take a sanitised inspection, of
http://www.soaw.org/new/ before you jump on your bandwagon of Moslem
Jihad, oh! Friend of Scooby.
Ananya
Newsgroups: alt.quotations
Subject: Re: The Jihad
References: <3CDCF497...@dircon.co.uk>
<3d03e5cd...@news.mindspring.com>
<aa4dddce.02062...@posting.google.com>
<3d34ea2d...@news.mindspring.com>
<3d55d631...@news.mindspring.com>
<3D55E142...@sky-access.com>
<r5ir8h4...@gill.maths.keele.ac.uk>
<3d7eba9...@news.mindspring.com>
<aa4dddce.02091...@posting.google.com>
<3da861a3...@newstest2.earthlink.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.94.224.6
Message-ID: <ca4cff0f.02101...@posting.google.com>
choll...@mindspring.com (The Sanity Inspector) wrote in message news:<3da861a3...@newstest2.earthlink.net>...
...Ahem! The Two-Faced West. Governments in the rich world are keen to
ObQuote:
-- Lisa Haugaard, _Textbook Repression: US Training Manuals
Declassified_
Ted Clayton
I see that the Arab street has gotten very, very quiet since we started
blowing things up." -- Donald Kagan, at
http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2002/10/tapped-s-10-07.html
--check the "What's in a Name"? entry
Ted
The Sanity Inspector
that their son has blown himself up: 'By what right do these leaders
send the young people, even young boys in the flower of their youth,
to their deaths?' Who gave them religious or any other legitimacy to
tempt our children and urge them to their deaths?"
Yes, I say 'death,' not 'martyrdom.' Changing and beautifying the
term, or paying a few thousand dollars to the family of the young man
who has gone and will never return, does not ease the shock or alter
the irrevocable end. The sums of money [paid] to the martyrs' families
cause pain more than they heal; they make the families feel that they
are being rewarded for the lives of their children.
Do the children's lives have a price? Has death become the only way to
restore the rights and liberate the land? And if this be the case, why
doesn't a single one of all the sheikhs who compete amongst themselves
in issuing fiery religious rulings, send his son?
-- A Palestinian father,
http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD42602
The Sanity Inspector
been the target of a terrorist attack in the history of our country.
-- Opposition Foreign Affairs spokesman Kevin Rudd
It is therefore unavoidable that as long as we live here [in
Australia] we will, through a process of cultural osmosis, take on
some of the characteristics of the Kuffar. The likeness of Islam and
Kuffar is like that of fresh clear spring water and water brought up
from the bottom of a suburban sewer. If even a drop of the filthy
water enters the clear water, the clarity diminishes. Likewise it only
takes a drop of the filth of disbelief to contaminate Islam in the
West. If we have it within our means we should therefore consider
moving to a Muslim land whereby we can at least live amongst our
brethren and within an Islamic society free from the contamination of
the disbelievers.
-- Amir Abdullah, http://www.islam.org.au/articles/18/identity.htm
Before all the idiots in the world even ask the question, if they
haven't already asked it by now, let me tell you why those guys hate
Australia and the Australians: because it is a happy, open,
democratic, successful, peaceful country and society that became what
it is through its own efforts, resourcefulness and creativity, and
because the murderers cannot live (and let live) with this.
Thus they will go on murdering and maiming innocent people till they
are beaten. But they will be beaten, and sooner than they imagine.
Both my paternal uncles left Hungary in '39 and managed to get
clandestinely into Palestine. One of them fought with the British army
in WW2 and, to the end of his days, he was full of admiration for the
Australian soldiers.
We are all Australians now.
All best
[Brazilian poet] Nelson Ascher
Paris
Ted Clayton
I don't know the answer to that last question, but I'm guessing it's the
same reason none of our leaders seem interested in sending their sons to
war, and skipped out themselves when they had the chance. Here's the
list. I know that since it's now a Republican and not a Democrat in the
White House no one cares about draft dodging anymore, but maybe
someone's curious.
http://www.nhgazette.com/chickenhawks.html
ObQuote:
"I had other priorities in the 60s than military service." -- Dick
Cheney, making what may be the single most disgraceful explanation of
chickenhawk status I've ever seen
Ted
The Sanity Inspector
wrote!
>I don't know the answer to that last question, but I'm guessing it's the
>same reason none of our leaders seem interested in sending their sons to
>war, and skipped out themselves when they had the chance. Here's the
>list. I know that since it's now a Republican and not a Democrat in the
>White House no one cares about draft dodging anymore, but maybe
>someone's curious.
>
>http://www.nhgazette.com/chickenhawks.html
Suppose that at election time we had a stark choice for a
troubled time. A war that is going badly. One candidate is a former
military commander, a suberb organizer, who led troops in the field
and was very solicitous of his men's safety. He's for Peace Now. The
other is a lawyer with scant national electoral experience before
attaining the Presidency, who only served in a backwater state militia
with no combat experience, constantly ridiculed by the national press,
with a string of bloody setbacks to his charge. He's for carrying on
as before. So would you, in 1864, vote for McClellan or Lincoln?
Have another look at that article I excerpted on the subject, won't
you?
Obquote:
Every person is responsible for all the good within the scope
of his abilities, and for no more, and none can tell whose sphere is
the largest.
-- Gail Hamilton, 19thC
--
alohacyberian
<3DAB5E87...@cmich.edu>...
>
> list. I know that since it's now a Republican and not a Democrat in the
> White House no one cares about draft dodging anymore
>
OBQ:
"Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive
the wooden beam in your own eye?"
~ Matthew 7:3
Ted Clayton
> Ted Clayton <clay...@cmich.edu> wrote in article
> <3DAB5E87...@cmich.edu>...
>
>>list. I know that since it's now a Republican and not a Democrat in the
>>White House no one cares about draft dodging anymore
>>
>
> Uh, the draft was ended by President Richard Nixon, a Republican. KM
My reference was to all the people who were filled with moral outrage
that Bill Clinton didn't go to Vietnam but were not at all troubled by
George W. Bush's avoiding service. (Defending the bars in Galveston
doesn't count).
Ted
Ted Clayton
"If we had had the leadership of a George W. Bush back in the Vietnam
War days, we probably would not have lost that war." -- Tom DeLay, cited
at http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2002/37/ma_110_11.html
The whole article is worth reading.
Ted
Tauser
that Bill Clinton didn't go to Vietnam but were not at all troubled by
George W. Bush's avoiding service. (Defending the bars in Galveston
doesn't count). >>
Pray, tell how the issue of draft-dodging has anything to do with a Jihad??
Tauser
Ted Clayton
Just chalk it up to drift, and accept my apologies.
Ted
> Tauser
The Sanity Inspector
what's to blame for Sept. 11, and they fall back on that old standby
''global poverty,'' the growing ''inequality'' between rich and poor.
Let's spell it out: There's no such thing. The story of the last 30
years is the emergence of ''a new world middle class,'' as Professor
Xavier Sala-i-Martin calls them in his study "The World Distribution
of Income." This class is made up of some 2.5 billion people in the
developing world, whose standards of living now approach those of the
West. That's to say, roughly half the people in the developing world
are doing pretty well economically. As Virginia Postrel wrote in the
New York Times recently, taking the world's population as a whole, in
1998 ''the largest number of people earned about $8,000, a standard of
living equivalent to Portugal's.''
Why hasn't the Middle East shared in this economic growth? Because
they're failed states run by kleptocrats who govern by clan and
corruption. The West could quadruple aid to the Arab world and it
would have zero effect on either poverty or terrorism.
-- Mark Steyn, "Place blame where it belongs"
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0902/steyn.html
The Sanity Inspector
the utter catastrophe that has befallen you...You would have seen your knights
prostrate beneath the horses' hooves, your houses stormed by pillagers and
ransacked by looters...You would have seen the crosses in your churches smashed,
the pages of the false Testaments scattered, the Patriarchs' tombs overturned.
You would have seen your Muslim enemy trampling on the place where you celebrate
mass, cutting the throats of monks, priests and deacons upon the altars...Since
no survivor has come forward to tell you what happened, we have informed you of
it, and since no-one is in a position to give you the good news that you have
saved your life at a loss of everything else, we bring you the tidings in a
personal letter.
-- The Mamluke Sultan Baybars, ultimatum to the Crusader strongholds after the
fall of Antioch, 1268
don wheeler
The Sanity Inspector wrote:
"It" after all is said and done, is a simple equation:
No Justice , No Peace
The Sanity Inspector
as possible.[...]
The second message is for Australia because you suffered the
most: please advise your government not to follow the US policy
because it will bring tragedy for your country.
-- Abu Bakar Bashir, quoted in "No sympathy for the dead, but
Bashir denies any guilt",
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/10/17/1034561267359.html
The Sanity Inspector
Two Palestinians are chatting. One of them has his wallet out and is
flipping through pictures. "Yeah, this is my oldest. He's a martyr.
Here's my second son. He's a martyr, too."
There's a pause...
The second Palestinian says, wistfully, "Ah, they blow up so fast,
don't they?"
PollyC
> No Justice , No Peace
Man's capacity for justice makes democracy possible, but man's
inclination to injustice makes democracy necessary.
~ Reinhold Niebuhr, Children of Light and Children of Darkness (1944)
Justice is like fire; if one covers it with a veil, it still burns.
~Madagascan saying
PollyC
北北北北北北北
The Sanity Inspector
following the deforming is the collapsing. The tenuous balance is broken.
Insanity is induced easily under the name of the higher sanity. Then the little
candle that is in each head is blown out on the pretext that the great cosmic
light can better be seen without it.
-- R. A. Lafferty
Graham Weeks
don wheeler wrote:
>
> "It" after all is said and done, is a simple equation:
> No Justice , No Peace
Your own words Don?
If so you should enter the AQ hall of ipsedixers :-)
--
Graham J Weeks M.R.Pharm.S.
http://www.weeks-g.dircon.co.uk/ My homepage of quotations
http://www.grace.org.uk/churches/ealing.html Our church
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think age is a very high price to pay for maturity. Tom Stoppard
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
don wheeler
Graham Weeks wrote:
> don wheeler wrote:
>
> >
> > "It" after all is said and done, is a simple equation:
> > No Justice , No Peace
>
> Your own words Don?
>
> If so you should enter the AQ hall of ipsedixers :-)
> --
ip·se dix·it
An unsupported assertion, usually by a person of standing;
a dictum.
dic·tum Pronunciation Key (dktm)
n. pl. dic·ta (-t) or dic·tums
1.An authoritative, often formal pronouncement: “He cites
Augustine's dictum that ‘If you understand it, it is not
God’” (Joseph Sobran)
libreria
> > If so you should enter the AQ hall of ipsedixers :-)
> ip新e dix搏t
> An unsupported assertion, usually by a person of standing;
> a dictum.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Is this a no?
OBQ
I appropriate what is already mine, for once a thing is published it
becomes public property.
~Oscar Wilde, quoted in Hesketh Pearson, The Life of Oscar Wilde
(1947)
libreria
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Bill Cleere
--
-- Bill Cleere
"We Swear to Rain Down Ten Thousand Bombs on the Bourgeois
Reactionary Line of Ts'ao Ti-ch'in and his Municipal Committee!"
"don wheeler" <cwhe...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:3DB9EEDE...@optonline.net...
>
>
> Graham Weeks wrote:
>
> > don wheeler wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > "It" after all is said and done, is a simple equation:
> > > No Justice , No Peace
> >
> > Your own words Don?
> >
> > If so you should enter the AQ hall of ipsedixers :-)
There is such a shrine?
May I submit mine humble self?
"Sex is like going abroad, or leasing a car with a moonroof. No one
would ever think of bothering with such foolishness, if it were not for
advertising." (Bill Cleere)
don wheeler
Bill Cleere wrote:
I second the Nomnalization !
"sloe gin dancing with the angel of death"
Perceptor a.p.s.
The Sanity Inspector
busing in armies of "psychological profilers" whose areas of alleged
expertise might as well have been on Planet Zongo for all they had to
do with what was going on in Maryland and Virginia. Regardless of
whodunit, it was very obvious what he'd dun: The killer didn't kill
blondes, he didn't kill fetching young men he picked up in bars, he
didn't kill lonely spinsters from the personal ads. He killed
Americans--male and female, young and old, black and white.
Now whose profile does that fit?
-- Mark Steyn, "Muslim ties are no surprise",
http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn/cst-edt-steyn27.html
Gareth Owen
> He killed Americans--male and female, young and old, black and white.
>
> Now whose profile does that fit?
>
> -- Mark Steyn, "Muslim ties are no surprise",
Timothy McVeigh?
ObQuote :
"I've come as a serial killer. They look like normal people."
-- Darlene Connor, (Sara Gilbert) on her Halloween costume - "Roseanne"
--
Gareth Owen
People look ridiculous when they're in ecstasy.
Heidi
> Now whose profile does that fit?
> -- Mark Steyn, "Muslim ties are no surprise",
> Timothy McVeigh?
Oh, him! He was the Unabomber guy, right?
obq
You made my shitlist!
~dialogue, Natural Born Killers (1994) [Mallory speaking]
____
Heidi
The Sanity Inspector
> syna...@hotmail.com (The Sanity Inspector) writes:
>
> > He killed Americans--male and female, young and old, black and white.
> >
> > Now whose profile does that fit?
> >
> > -- Mark Steyn, "Muslim ties are no surprise",
>
> Timothy McVeigh?
Funny you should mention that. There's a brewing conspiracy theory about him:
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=timothy+mcveigh+iraq+connection
PollyC
about him:
> http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=timothy+mcveigh+iraq+connection
北北北北北北北
There are some people who still think Elvis is alive.
~President George Bush
PollyC
北北北北北北北
David C Kifer
>
> > Funny you should mention that. There's a brewing conspiracy theory
> about him:
> > http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=timothy+mcveigh+iraq+connection
Not a new thought, it was one of the first thoughts the day the bomb exploded.
It went dormant for awhile, but the investigators in Oklahoma never completely
forgot it, even though the Feds were happy to close the case as an "angry
white man", and didn't want to know anything about possible foreign help.
They closed down all those lines of investigation when McVeigh was caught,
rather than follow them through to be sure of any connection or lack thereof.
This was Clinton, remember, he had other things on his mind... or somewhere...
The foreign connection to the OKC bombing has been gathering evidence ever
since, it is not something rigged up to support current events.
> 北北北北北北北
>
> There are some people who still think Elvis is alive.
> ~President George Bush
>
> PollyC
> 北北北北北北北
But he is! I saw him on TV just last week! Well, it looked like him, anyway!
:-)>
There is [sic] two things in life for which we are never fully prepared,
and that is--twins.
--Josh Billings
[p&e]
--
Dave
"Tam multi libri, tam breve tempus!"
(Et brevis pecunia.) [Et breve spatium.]
PollyC
exploded.
±±±±±±±±±±±±±±
And, Mr. Kifer, although you have made it clear in the past you do
not
believe in statistics, what do you think of conspiracy theories?
It seems you may be open to a McVeigh/Iraq link... and these??
Most Americans Believe In Conspiracy Theories
Studies & Polls Demonstrate Popular American Belief in Government
Conspiracies.
· More than half (51%) believe it is very likely or somewhat likely
that
government officials were "directly responsible for the assassination
of
President Kennedy."
· More than half (60%) believe is likely that military officials
covered up
the dangers of the Agent Orange chemical
· Four-fifths (80%) believe it is likely that military officials are
covering up information about American soldiers' exposure to nerve gas
or
germ warfare in the Gulf War.
· More than one-third (40%) believe it is likely that the FBI burned
down
the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas
· More than half (52%) believe it is likely that the CIA allowed drug
dealers from Central America to sell crack cocaine to
African-Americans in
US inner cities.
· More than one-third believe it is likely the Navy shot down TWA
Flight 800
either intentionally or accidentally.
Nearly half (47%) believe it is very likely or somewhat likely that
"The
U.S. Air Force is withholding proof of the existence of intelligent
life
from other planets."
~ from article by Craig de Louie, author of Paranoia (2001)
Survey conducted June 25-29 1997.
The results have a 4% margin of error with a 95% confidence interval,
meaning that the results are projectable to all American households 95
times
out of 100 plus or minus 4 percentage points. see
http://www.disinfo.com/pages/article/id1822/pg1/
OBQ
AIDS was started by human beings to get after certain people they
don't
like.
~Bill Cosby , The New York Post, (December 4, 1991)
Oh, and wasn't Elvis made a Special FBI Agent?..he isn't Dead- he is
Undercover!
Who DO you know who to trust over there? I'd be considering a
pre-emptive
strike on the CIA, FBI and the military ! <s>
PollyC
±±±±±±±±±±±±±±
Grace McGarvie
Scripps Howard News Service
Published Dec 20, 2001
One out of every five Americans believes he or she has seen an angel or
knows someone who has, according to survey of 1,127 adult residents of
the United States conducted by Scripps Howard News Service and Ohio University.
Seventy-seven percent of adults in the poll answered "yes" to the
question: "Do you believe angels, that is, some kind of heavenly beings
who visit Earth, in fact exist?" Another 73 percent believe angels still
"come into the world even in these modern days."
Both religious believers and cynics agree that public interest in angels
has risen dramatically in recent years, partly buoyed by popular
Hollywood productions such as television's "Touched by an Angel" and
"Highway to Heaven" and John Travolta's film portrayal of "Michael."
MORE FROM http://www.trinity.edu/~mkearl/devil.html
PERCENT BELIEVING THAT THE DEVIL DEFINITELY OR PROBABLY EXISTS BY
RELIGION AND RELIGIOSITY
STRONG SOMEWHAT NOT VERY TOTAL
FUND PROTESTANT 90% 83% 73% 81%
CATHOLIC 70% 73% 50% 62%
MODERATE PROT 85% 77% 55% 70%
LIBERAL PROTESTANT 78% 62% 55% 62%
NO RELIGIOUS AFFIL 26%
TOTAL 79% 74% 57% 65%
--
Amazing Grace's Eclectic Quotation Collection
*93,000 quotations, proverbs, by people of all philosophies, ages and
cultures. For more info. or free sample of one category, send a personal
e-mail: gem...@attbi.com
. . . Grace McGarvie . . .
. . Plymouth,Mn. 55447 U.S.A.
Clearlize2002
>white man"
Don't you mean "an angry right-wing militia type" who had the same
political beliefs as you do? Not implying that you would act on them in the
same way.
>The foreign connection to the OKC bombing has been gathering evidence ever
>since, it is not something rigged up to support current events.
Looks like the John Birch Society is in total agreement with you, Dave. Of
course it was not "one man acting alone." Besides, a right-wing militia-type
would be too stupid to pull it off by himself. Yeah, somehow it always comes
back to Clinton.
Obquote:
-----
The evidence this magazine has accumulated points to the involvement of two
separate "cells" in the OKC bombing. One was comprised of American citizens
(and a German national, Andreas Strassmeir) involved with the Aryan
Nations-linked rural Oklahoma compound known as "Elohim City." The other cell
was comprised of Iraqis and others of Mideast extraction. In our February 19,
1996 issue, we reported: "The evidence we have gathered thus far (and are
continuing to develop) strongly indicates that five or six Iraqis, who had come
to Oklahoma under a controversial asylum program after the Persian Gulf War,
were involved as co-conspirators with Timothy McVeigh in delivering the
explosives-laden Ryder truck to the Murrah Building."
--http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2001/12-03-2001/insider/vo17no25_okc.htm
Balancing Conspiracy-type Quote:
-----
The neo-fascist elements within and around the Republican Party have already
demonstrated their contempt for democracy, first in the protracted campaign of
political destabilization against the Clinton administration, then with the
theft of the 2000 presidential election. They are now preparing to slaughter
tens of thousands of Iraqis in order to grab control of the second largest oil
reserves in the world. To imagine that they would suffer moral qualms over a
conveniently timed plane crash would be naïve in the extreme.
There is another curious and suggestive factor. Virtually every day the Bush
administration issues warnings of terrorist attacks on trains, nuclear
reactors, airports or government buildings, to keep the American people off
balance and stampede the public into supporting the impending war against Iraq.
Government officials are prepared to attribute virtually any act of
violence—such as the Washington sniper shootings—to Al Qaeda. Yet there has
been no suggestion that the destruction of Wellstone’s plane was the result
of terrorism. Perhaps in this case they prefer not to inquire too closely into
the causes.
--http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/oct2002/well-o29.shtml
-----
--Flash
David C Kifer
>
> > Not a new thought, it was one of the first thoughts the day the bomb
> exploded.
>
>
> And, Mr. Kifer, although you have made it clear in the past you do
> not believe in statistics, what do you think of conspiracy theories?
> It seems you may be open to a McVeigh/Iraq link... and these??
[snip of popular conspiracy theories and "Lies, damned lies, and statistics."]
On a bad day, I suspect there may be a kernel of truth buried in all of
them, on a good day, I remember that stupidity generally accounts for
more than malice.
> Oh, and wasn't Elvis made a Special FBI Agent?..he isn't Dead- he is
> Undercover!
> Who DO you know who to trust over there? I'd be considering a
> pre-emptive strike on the CIA, FBI and the military ! <s>
The thought has been considered, and acted upon. That was what Timothy
McVeigh was doing in Oklahoma City, with a truck full of explosives.
obq:
There is no situation in the human condition that cannot be solved through
a properly sized, shaped, packed, placed, timed, and detonated charge of
high explosive!
--Military Engineering Axiom, quoted in _Special Forces_, Tom Clancy
David C Kifer
>
> > Feds were happy to close the case as an "angry white man"
>
> Don't you mean "an angry right-wing militia type" who had the same
> political beliefs as you do? Not implying that you would act on them in the
> same way.
Sorry to contradict you, Flash, but I'm not "right wing Militia", I'm a
libertarian who believes in self defense.
> >The foreign connection to the OKC bombing has been gathering evidence ever
> >since, it is not something rigged up to support current events.
>
> Looks like the John Birch Society is in total agreement with you, Dave. Of
> course it was not "one man acting alone." Besides, a right-wing militia-type
> would be too stupid to pull it off by himself. Yeah, somehow it always comes
> back to Clinton.
I don't particularly care what the JBS thinks, other than to compare it to
the Green Party. They're both "breakfast cereal".
The popularity of conspiracy theories is explained by people's desire to
believe that there is -some- group of folks who know what they're doing.
-- Damon Knight
Graham Weeks
don wheeler wrote:
Is that a "Yes"?
Simply let your `Yes' be `Yes,' and your `No,' `No'; - Matt. 5:37 NIV
:-)
But it was a helpful piece of education too.