Jose in the news again...
Neal Miyake
news story (Star Bulletin, 9/30/01). This time he tries surfing Pratte's
Reef in El Segundo, CA. Guess they are having some problems with the
artificial reef.
In describing the surf:
"They just flop and back off," said Borrero, a graduate student at USC who
knows a big wave when he sees one."
Actually, it is an interesting read. Guess humankind can't emulate nature
very well. But then again, maybe we can...
http://www.elporto.com/pratts_reef/prattes_reef_update.htm (scroll down)
If you can find the article in another newspaper (written by AP writer
Andrew Bridges), you might see a comical accompanying photo of someone
measuring the slope of the beach. Looks like he is trying to measure the
wave height with a stick.
sponge
www.hisurfadvisory.com
Timothy B. Maddux
Neal Miyake <spo...@iav.com> wrote:
>... Jose is interviewed in yet another news story (Star Bulletin, 9/30/01).
Got a URI for us?
>http://www.elporto.com/pratts_reef/prattes_reef_update.htm
"One small rip in a bag (not counted in the six) appears to have been caused
by the sharp edge of a broken brick in the bag. I don't think our sand meets
the specs required by the permit ..."
I'll say. What the hell are bricks doing in a "sand" bag?
>... you might see a comical accompanying photo of someone measuring
>the slope of the beach. Looks like he is trying to measure the wave
>height with a stick.
Hey now, no making fun of beach research geeks.
--
.-``'. Tim Maddux, Ocean Engineering Lab, UCSB
.` .`~ Santa Barbara Surfing - http://www.cs.ucsb.edu/~tbmaddux/
_.-' '._ "The waves, as always, hold the more insidious addiction."
Neal Miyake
"Timothy B. Maddux" <tbma...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
> Neal Miyake <spo...@iav.com> wrote:
> >... Jose is interviewed in yet another news story (Star Bulletin,
9/30/01).
>
> Got a URI for us?
I've scoured the web, but couldn't find it. Stop the presses! Found it.
http://uniontrib.com/news/science/20011001-0133-artificialwaves.html
> >... you might see a comical accompanying photo of someone measuring
> >the slope of the beach. Looks like he is trying to measure the wave
> >height with a stick.
>
> Hey now, no making fun of beach research geeks.
http://uniontrib.com/news/science/ (picture)
sponge
Neal Miyake
"Neal Miyake" <spo...@iav.com> wrote
> > >... you might see a comical accompanying photo of someone measuring
> > >the slope of the beach. Looks like he is trying to measure the wave
The url changed. Here's a direct link to the image:
http://uniontrib.com/news/science/images/011101waves.jpg
(the date-filename is wrong so it might change come November)
Think that's Dave Blake in the water quantifying the difference between
head-high and overhead surf. ;-)
sponge
SurfSarge
>The url changed. Here's a direct link to the image:
>http://uniontrib.com/news/science/images/011101waves.jpg
>(the date-filename is wrong so it might change come November)
>
>Think that's Dave Blake in the water quantifying the difference between
>head-high and overhead surf. ;-)
Nah.... too much hair
-PD
Timothy B. Maddux
Neal Miyake <spo...@iav.com> wrote:
>http://uniontrib.com/news/science/images/011101waves.jpg
http://science.whoi.edu/PVLAB/pv_images/crew_in_surf.jpg
And you thought surf photographers took hits in the name
of their careers.
--
.-``'. Tim Maddux, Ocean Engineering Lab, UCSB
.` .`~ Santa Barbara Surfing - http://www.me.ucsb.edu/~tbmaddux/
_.-' '._ All your wave are belong to me!
JCB
>
> "Neal Miyake" <spo...@iav.com> wrote
> > > >... you might see a comical accompanying photo of someone measuring
> > > >the slope of the beach. Looks like he is trying to measure the wave
> > > >height with a stick...
that's a laser reflector on top of the stick we use a laser to get
distance and elevation across the beach. compare profiles over time to
track changes in beach shape and sand distribution.
> The url changed. Here's a direct link to the image:
> http://uniontrib.com/news/science/images/011101waves.jpg
> (the date-filename is wrong so it might change come November)
wow, i never saw that pic. that's cool.
hey skeptics, that's the reef breaking in the background. that swell
that day was like 2 - 3 ft windswell and the tide was ~1 ft low.
the reef breaks. i even rode it that day for the news guy, caught one
off the center, did a turn and got the reform into the inside.
it doesn't break good, but it breaks and when it breaks it is better
(rideable) than the waves in the immediate area (unrideable closeout).
that was the ONLY goal of the project in the first place, and to that
end it has been successful.
if the thing were just bigger, a LOT bigger, it would work a lot better.
to get an idea what i am talking about look at:
http://www-scf.usc.edu/~jborrero/compare.jpg
each of those cells is an individual sand bag unit. 4 of narrowneck's
bags make up the entire volume of pratte's reef.
this is how big it has to be. that is really expensive, and there is no
return on investment like a ski lift.
all i hope is that the average surfer (and the people with gobs of
money) wake up an realize that this is a viable technology for certain
over armoured coastlines. the stretch from el segundo to pacific
palisades is just such a place. it is a stable compartamentalized
beach, with a jetty or groyne every few hundred meters (from ES to
Marina del Rey, then wider spacing after that) it also has enough,
clean, long period swell especially in the winter, a narrow swell
direction window (slightly SW to sligtly NW) and a large surfing population.
3 or 4 well designed (i.e. really big) reefs between el segundo and the
palisades would DRASTICALLY reduce over crowding at
Porto, Malibu, Sunset, Topanga, Palos Verdes...
you know how many surfers there are in venice and santa monica that have
no good breaks 95% of the time? why do you think they are always at
malibu or el porto? right tower7, G.Duke? who else?
wake up and get behind it. it will work, it just needs money and suport
to proove it.
one at the current site, one half way to MDR, one in Venice and one up
by the palisades jetties.
none of the other fickle ephemeral jetty breaks will be negatively
impacted (ES to MDR and palisades). none of the mostly closed out, but
sometimes good in spring beach breaks will be made any worse (Venice,
Bay Street, etc...)
the beaches are already so fucked that can't get any worse!
forget surfrider, thay don't want to touch this issue anymore. The tree
huggers just don't get it. (i'm not saying that all surfrider people are
tree huggers, but there is some of that going on).
the logic should be: build some good big reefs to compensate for what
has been lost since beach armoring and coastal development began AND
don't destroy any other surfspots in the future regardless of how well
artificial reef technology works.
natural is always better and should be preserved.
we need to do it as surfers.
but i doubt it will happen, we can't agree on anything. we're worse
than <insert ethnic minority of your choice> at trying to get ahead as a group...
-jose
Timothy B. Maddux
>it doesn't break good, but it breaks and when it breaks it is better
>(rideable) than the waves in the immediate area (unrideable closeout).
The extra bags did the trick, then. Glad to hear it.
>3 or 4 well designed (i.e. really big) reefs between el segundo and the
>palisades would DRASTICALLY reduce over crowding at
>
>Porto, Malibu, Sunset, Topanga, Palos Verdes...
^^^^^^
Isn't that region shadowed from summer swells?
How would that help Malibu?
>it will work, it just needs money and suport to proove it.
The trick is the money. Who's going to pay for it?
It's like trying to get your roommates to pony up
for pizza, "nah, I don't want any..." but then when
the pizza (reef) shows up you can bet they'll all
want a slice (wave). Getting Chevron to put out $300k
was a great idea but obviously it missed the mark by
a couple orders of magnitude.
>forget surfrider, thay don't want to touch this issue anymore.
Did they ever really (except for Glen Henning)?
>the logic should be: build some good big reefs to compensate for what
>has been lost since beach armoring and coastal development began...
This would be a good thing to push before funding agencies like
the Coastal Conservancy to get back places like Oil Piers, Stanleys,
Long Beach, Dana Point... it's actually been tried (by Glen) at
the surf spot formerly known as Oil Piers and he couldn't pull it off.
JCB
>
> In article <3BBE1629...@usc.edu>, JCB <jbor...@usc.edu> wrote:
> >it doesn't break good, but it breaks and when it breaks it is better
> >(rideable) than the waves in the immediate area (unrideable closeout).
>
> The extra bags did the trick, then. Glad to hear it.
>
> >3 or 4 well designed (i.e. really big) reefs between el segundo and the
> >palisades would DRASTICALLY reduce over crowding at
> >
> >Porto, Malibu, Sunset, Topanga, Palos Verdes...
>
> How would that help Malibu?
SW swells hit from El Porto all the way up to north county, you knew that...
AND
during one data collection session at the reef with a 3 ft SW running
and a low tide, i saw better than decent waves break on the reef.
problem was it was really inconsistent, and by the time we were done
with data collection, the tide had come up and there was a REALLY long
wait between waves. this was back in may, that one really good south
swell back then, the very first day of the swell, a friday. went to
porto and it was all lefts with great shape, chest to head high.
> >it will work, it just needs money and suport to proove it.
>
> The trick is the money. Who's going to pay for it?
> It's like trying to get your roommates to pony up
> for pizza, "nah, I don't want any..." but then when
> the pizza (reef) shows up you can bet they'll all
> want a slice (wave).
no shit, surfers are idiots. (yes i mean you..., not you tim
specifically, but you joe,jose surfers out there)
> Getting Chevron to put out $300k
> was a great idea but obviously it missed the mark by
> a couple orders of magnitude.
>
> >forget surfrider, thay don't want to touch this issue anymore.
>
> Did they ever really (except for Glen Henning)?
>
> >the logic should be: build some good big reefs to compensate for what
> >has been lost since beach armoring and coastal development began...
>
> This would be a good thing to push before funding agencies like
> the Coastal Conservancy to get back places like Oil Piers, Stanleys,
> Long Beach, Dana Point... it's actually been tried (by Glen) at
> the surf spot formerly known as Oil Piers and he couldn't pull it off.
the concervancy ponied up for the 2nd set of bags, 200 k. some
celebrities have put up some dough, i head 25 k from one place and some
other person was gonna use it as their charity on a celebrity game show
or something, dunno where i saw that at.
tony hawk won 125,000 on clebrity millionaire for his build a ram
foundation and his brother steve was his liveline to get him from 64 to
125 k...
-jose
Slippery When Wet©
> tony hawk won 125,000 on clebrity millionaire for his build a ram
> foundation and his brother steve was his liveline to get him from 64 to
> 125 k...
What was the question (to get him from 64 to 125 k)?
--
Hang Five, Dude
"Annoying morons on the Internet since 1993"
Timothy B. Maddux
>SW swells hit from El Porto all the way up to north county, you knew that...
Actually I didn't think they started hitting until Sunset.
>back in may, that one really good south swell ... went to
>porto and it was all lefts with great shape, chest to head high.
Lefts? In California?!?
>tony hawk won 125,000 on clebrity millionaire for his build a ramp
>foundation and his brother steve was his liveline to get him from 64 to
>125 k...
I saw that. Can't remember what the question Steve answered
was, but he nailed it good. So, let's get someone to fund
these guys:
--
.-``'. Tim Maddux, Ocean Engineering Lab, UCSB
.` .`~ Santa Barbara Surfing - http://www.me.ucsb.edu/~tbmaddux/
JCB
>
> In article <3BBE4009...@usc.edu>, jbor...@usc.edu says...
>
> > tony hawk won 125,000 on clebrity millionaire for his build a ram
> > foundation and his brother steve was his liveline to get him from 64 to
> > 125 k...
>
> What was the question (to get him from 64 to 125 k)?
can't remember the exact question, but the answer was "Ernest Hemmingway"
something about a quote from a famous writer. T. Hawk called S. Hawk
based presumably on his literary knowledge. It paid off.
JCB
> Actually I didn't think they started hitting until Sunset.
of course it depends on the amount of west and south etc, but yeah the
stretch from El Segundo to Marina Del Rey is known for certain jetties
working under certain southwest swell conditons.
this pic was taken around there on a SW swell:
http://www-scf.usc.edu/~jborrero/apoca.html
what a waste of swell, if there was something out there to reshape those
walls, someone could have surfed it! as it was it was total closed out
mayhem.
of course this it what it looked like the day before and after at Zuma:
http://www-scf.usc.edu/~jborrero/feb99/index.html
about the same size but much better shape...
> http://www.stanleysreef.org/
yeah sure, fund everybody! why not. i say build 'em, the more the
merrier!
i don't like the looks of his designs though, way too spindly and
relying on 'trapping sand' from my observational experience hasn't
really worked yet. the story may be differnt though up on the ventura
coast where there is a much stronger long shore current and more long
shore transport over all than in the compartmentalized, concretized,
channelized, dammed up LA basin. also i think the wave climate in El
Segundo is a little more 'orderly' than in north Ventura. but that is
just speculation.
these things have to be BIG BIG BIG!
what is the wavelength of a 16 sec 4 ft swell in infinite depth, what is
the curve for the change in wavelength vs depth as the water gets shallower
plot another curve for change in wave height vs depth for the same wave.
i know, i know, i have the equatons somewhere but you might have them
handy and maybe even already coded somewhere...
i figure the reef should have a cross shore dimension of 1/2 to 1 full
wavelength at a depth of about 20 m to be really effective in the
shoaling process.
i have kimo walker's masters thesis where he did just that, lab
experiments on shoaling and breaking over a 3 dimensional shoal. the
shoal was about 1 wavelength crossshore.
we got some new grad students hanging around the office and i'm trying
to get them to do some analytical work on the 1-d wave transformations
using the bathymery that i have measured and the actual dimensions of
the reef. just to get an idea about the scaling issues involved.
-jose
Y1KCompliant©
> "Slippery When Wet©" wrote:
> >
> > In article <3BBE4009...@usc.edu>, jbor...@usc.edu says...
> >
> > > tony hawk won 125,000 on clebrity millionaire for his build a ram
> > > foundation and his brother steve was his liveline to get him from 64 to
> > > 125 k...
> >
> > What was the question (to get him from 64 to 125 k)?
>
> can't remember the exact question, but the answer was "Ernest Hemmingway"
When you start with the answer instead the question, it helps to be on
Jeopardy instead of Millionaire. ;o)
> something about a quote from a famous writer. T. Hawk called S. Hawk
> based presumably on his literary knowledge. It paid off.
Close enough. Thanks.
Agent Utah
>
>
> this pic was taken around there on a SW swell:
>
> http://www-scf.usc.edu/~jborrero/apoca.html
>
> what a waste of swell, if there was something out there to reshape those
> walls, someone could have surfed it! as it was it was total closed out
> mayhem.
>
closeouts count :)
JCB
> closeouts count :)
and sometimes they make nice pictures...