Sniper Rifle V.S. Drawing out the Beast
Emile Bosman
When blocking you can set the range using the Sniper rifle but what if
the other player plays a Drawing out the Beast can I still set the
range although I can't use the sniper rifle?
Sorrow
Acting meth has precedence.
Sorrow
---
"Happiness sucks" -me
The Fanboy
> the other player plays a Drawing out the Beast can I still set the
> range although I can't use the sniper rifle?
You can't use equipment -- the set range aspect of the Sniper Rifle
would still count as using equipment. So no, you cannot.
The Fanboy
JC
I know for sure Dotb wins : the other guy doesn't get the opportunity
to set the range.
JC
Sorrow
> > When blocking you can set the range using the Sniper rifle but what if
> > the other player plays a Drawing out the Beast can I still set the
> > range although I can't use the sniper rifle?
> I know for sure Dotb wins : the other guy doesn't get the opportunity
> to set the range.
Except that the set range power of the Sniper Rifle isn't used during the
"establish range" phase of combat; that phase of combat is skipped altogether.
As such, it is used "before range is determined", just as DotB. Since they are
both used during the same phase of combat, the acting meth has precedence.
Sorrow
---
I keep telling them that I think they're out to get me.
They ask me if I feel remorse and I answer, "Why of course!
There's so much more I could have done if they'd let me!"
So it's Rorschach and Prozac and everything is groovy
X_Zealot
> Except that the set range power of the Sniper Rifle isn't used during the
> "establish range" phase of combat; that phase of combat is skipped
altogether.
> As such, it is used "before range is determined", just as DotB. Since
they are
> both used during the same phase of combat, the acting meth has precedence.
>
> Sorrow
Of course, I agree with you, but the set range ability of the sniper rifle
can only be used by a blocking minion, which of course means that the
acting minion is the one playing the drawing out the beast. So, there is
only one situation where this will come into play, and therefore the sniper
rifle never gets to set range to long.
Comments
Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr.
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
James Coupe
<x_ze...@bellsouth.net> writes
>> Except that the set range power of the Sniper Rifle isn't used during the
>> "establish range" phase of combat; that phase of combat is skipped
>altogether.
>> As such, it is used "before range is determined", just as DotB. Since
>they are
>> both used during the same phase of combat, the acting meth has precedence.
>>
>> Sorrow
>
>Of course, I agree with you, but the set range ability of the sniper rifle
>can only be used by a blocking minion, which of course means that the
>acting minion is the one playing the drawing out the beast.
Though they may not necessarily have used it.
Acting Meth: "Nothing pre-range from me."
Blocking Meth: "Set range to long from the Sniper Rifle."
Acting Meth: "Ack. Oh, I forgot my Barrens. Discard Telepathic Counter.
Coo, I drew Drawing out the Beast."
--
James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D
Close your eyes so you don't feel them EBD690ECD7A1F
They don't need to see you cry B457CA213D7E6
I can't promise I will heal you, but if you want to I will try 68C3695D623D5D
Sorrow
> can only be used by a blocking minion, which of course means that the
> acting minion is the one playing the drawing out the beast. So, there is
> only one situation where this will come into play, and therefore the sniper
> rifle never gets to set range to long.
Indeed. That's why I didn't say the Sniper Rifle gets precedence, but instead
the acting meth gets precedence.
See James Coupe's example scenario.
Sorrow
---
"I am Jack's inflamed sense of rejection."
- Narrator
Derek Ray
wrote:
DotB does not beat Cailean or Shadow Step, which both set range without
using equipment and without maneuvering -- see DotB's card text.
But DotB's prohibition against using equipment stops a Sniper Rifle
cold, because you can't use the Rifle or any of its features (such as
the 'set range').
--
Derek
AGITATOR, n. A statesman who shakes the fruit trees of
his neighbors -- to dislodge the worms.
LSJ
>
> > Does anybody know the answer to this one?
> > When blocking you can set the range using the Sniper rifle but what if
> > the other player plays a Drawing out the Beast can I still set the
> > range although I can't use the sniper rifle?
>
> Acting meth has precedence.
Correct. Both "set range" and "DotB" effects are used "before range is determined",
so acting Meth gets first shot at playing one of these effects.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Nystulc
>>> "establish range" phase of combat; that phase of combat is skipped
>>altogether.
>>> As such, it is used "before range is determined", just as DotB. Since
>>they are
>>> both used during the same phase of combat, the acting meth has precedence.
>>>
>>> Sorrow
>>
>>Of course, I agree with you, but the set range ability of the sniper rifle
>>can only be used by a blocking minion, which of course means that the
>>acting minion is the one playing the drawing out the beast.
>
>Though they may not necessarily have used it.
>
>Acting Meth: "Nothing pre-range from me."
>Blocking Meth: "Set range to long from the Sniper Rifle."
>Acting Meth: "Ack. Oh, I forgot my Barrens. Discard Telepathic Counter.
> Coo, I drew Drawing out the Beast."
Here's a better scenario for you.
Acting Methuselah: "Nothing Pre-Range from me"
Blocking Minion: "I play Disguised Weapon to arm with a Sniper
Rifle, and immediately use its special power to set the range
to long"
Acting Methuselah: "OK. I play DOtB. Wish I had done so in the
first place, but I didn't want to get hit for +1 hand damage
at short range".
-- John Whelan
James Coupe
<nys...@cs.com> writes
>Acting Methuselah: "Nothing Pre-Range from me"
>Blocking Minion: "I play Disguised Weapon to arm with a Sniper
> Rifle, and immediately use its special power to set the range
>to long"
Card text says:
"If the bearer blocks an action"
After you have brought the card into play via DW, the bearer does not
block an action.
--
James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D
When all the world seemed to sleep, why, why did you go? EBD690ECD7A1F
Was it me? Was it you? B457CA213D7E6
Questions in a world of blue. 68C3695D623D5D
Nystulc
>Card text says:
>
> "If the bearer blocks an action"
>
>After you have brought the card into play via DW, the bearer does not
>block an action.
He is in fact the bearer, and he does in fact block. Seems to me that he
satisfies the requirements of playing the effect regardless of whether he was
the bearer when the block began..
He is still blocking, the combat being part of the resolution of the block.
The only way one could get around this conclusion is to rule that the effect
must always be played OUTSIDE of combat during the block attempt stage -- but
it does not seem to me that the card has any such explicit restriction..
LSJ?
-- John Whelan
LSJ
> James Coupe wrote:
> >Card text says:
> >
> > "If the bearer blocks an action"
> >
> >After you have brought the card into play via DW, the bearer does not
> >block an action.
>
> He is in fact the bearer, and he does in fact block. Seems to me that he
He "did" in fact block. But he wasn't a bearer when he did.
Card text isn't "if bearer blocked an action...", it's "if bearer blocks an
action...". Present tense. He must be the bearer when he blocks.
> satisfies the requirements of playing the effect regardless of whether he was
> the bearer when the block began..
>
> He is still blocking, the combat being part of the resolution of the block.
Combat is part of the block, yes.
> The only way one could get around this conclusion is to rule that the effect
> must always be played OUTSIDE of combat during the block attempt stage -- but
> it does not seem to me that the card has any such explicit restriction..
>
> LSJ?
I'm not sure what you mean by that OUTSIDE of combat part.
Nystulc
>Nystulc wrote:
>> James Coupe wrote:
>> >Card text says:
>> >
>> > "If the bearer blocks an action"
>> >
>> >After you have brought the card into play via DW, the bearer does not
>> >block an action.
>>
>> He is in fact the bearer, and he does in fact block. Seems to me that he
>
>He "did" in fact block. But he wasn't a bearer when he did.
>
>Card text isn't "if bearer blocked an action...", it's "if bearer blocks an
>action...". Present tense. He must be the bearer when he blocks.
Hmm. But he *is* blocking, is he not? The blocking minion? Had card text
been "if the bearer is blocking an action" would your ruling then have been
different? .
Nystulc
>Nystulc wrote:
>> James Coupe wrote:
>> >Card text says:
>> >
>> > "If the bearer blocks an action"
>> >
>> >After you have brought the card into play via DW, the bearer does not
>> >block an action.
>>
>> He is in fact the bearer, and he does in fact block. Seems to me that he
>
>He "did" in fact block. But he wasn't a bearer when he did.
>
>Card text isn't "if bearer blocked an action...", it's "if bearer blocks an
>action...". Present tense. He must be the bearer when he blocks.
Hmm. But he *is* blocking, is he not? The blocking minion? Had the card read
"if the bearer is blocking an action" would your ruling have been different?
>> satisfies the requirements of playing the effect regardless of whether he
>was
>> the bearer when the block began..
>>
>> He is still blocking, the combat being part of the resolution of the block.
>
>Combat is part of the block, yes.
>
>> The only way one could get around this conclusion is to rule that the
>effect
>> must always be played OUTSIDE of combat during the block attempt stage --
>but
>> it does not seem to me that the card has any such explicit restriction..
>>
>> LSJ?
>
>I'm not sure what you mean by that OUTSIDE of combat part.
I merely assumed that if you interepreted the cards use of the present tense to
mean that requirements for playing the effect are past by the time combat
starts, this necessarily leads to the conclusion that the effect must be played
before combat starts.
-- John Whelan
LSJ
>
> LSJ wrote:
> >Nystulc wrote:
> >> James Coupe wrote:
> >> >Card text says:
> >> >
> >> > "If the bearer blocks an action"
> >> >
> >> >After you have brought the card into play via DW, the bearer does not
> >> >block an action.
> >>
> >> He is in fact the bearer, and he does in fact block. Seems to me that he
> >
> >He "did" in fact block. But he wasn't a bearer when he did.
> >
> >Card text isn't "if bearer blocked an action...", it's "if bearer blocks an
> >action...". Present tense. He must be the bearer when he blocks.
>
> Hmm. But he *is* blocking, is he not? The blocking minion? Had card text
> been "if the bearer is blocking an action" would your ruling then have been
> different? .
Present perfect tense, yes.
LSJ
> LSJ wrote:
> >> The only way one could get around this conclusion is to rule that the
> >effect
> >> must always be played OUTSIDE of combat during the block attempt stage --
> >but
> >> it does not seem to me that the card has any such explicit restriction..
> >>
> >> LSJ?
> >
> >I'm not sure what you mean by that OUTSIDE of combat part.
>
> I merely assumed that if you interepreted the cards use of the present tense to
> mean that requirements for playing the effect are past by the time combat
> starts, this necessarily leads to the conclusion that the effect must be played
> before combat starts.
No. He can set range during the resulting combat. See also Guard Dogs - the
manuever is not used "before combat starts".