Set GNU on different levels?
saratw2
Or is it better that GNU always his best against me?
I, too, love this program!
Sara
SJ Baedke
For Player 0, it should default this player to be the bot. You can
set its ply depth here (note that gnubg 2-ply is equivalent to a 3-ply
Snowie setting since gnubg 0-ply automatically does a 1 play look
ahead). You can also set it to take the cube into account here (you
should if you play matches). You can also have it look deeper into
the candidates by increasing the search candidates.
steve
saratw2
on this list, I have to say I don't know what the terms 3-ply or 2-ply mean.
Can you help me equate these terms into "easiest," "moderate" and "hard?"
I have found the Settings for players. If I set myself as "beginner"
whatever "ply" that is), what do I set Gnubg on to give myself a fairer
match? Or do I want to? Would cutting back on GNU's ability not be as good
for my learning?
Is there a way for me to raise my level as I progress? Or do I do that by
raising GNU's level?
I'm a bit in the dark, but trying to get a handle on all of this.
I wish GNU folks would put some of this info on their website - all about
settings, analysis, how interpret the analysis, etc. Does everyone except me
already know all of this?
Sara
SJ Baedke <bae...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:kpenptggqp65qsj0v...@4ax.com...
JP White
>
> At the risk of exposing my lack of knowledge to the whole backgammon world
> on this list, I have to say I don't know what the terms 3-ply or 2-ply mean.
> Can you help me equate these terms into "easiest," "moderate" and "hard?"
Ply.
Basically determines how many moves GNU looks ahead during it's 'thought
process' or evaluation.
0-ply in GNU terms means it isn't looking ahead any moves ahead and
'evaluates' the position as it stands to determine the best move.
1-ply means GNU looks at all 36 possible dice rolls and evaluates the
position after each roll. It then has a better idea of how the game may
turn out and it's chosen move is more likely to be correct.
2-ply is two move look ahead
3-ply 3
etc. etc.
In reality it isn't possible for GNU evaluate each and every permutation
of dice rolls and moves as this will soon grow too large. Instead it
will only evaluate moves that it initially considers in it's top x
moves. x is the number of search candidates you can configure in GNU.
Note that when you see people talking about 1-ply using Snowie this is
different. Snowie starts counting at 1. So 1-ply is no look ahead. GNU
starts counting at zero.
>
> I have found the Settings for players. If I set myself as "beginner"
> whatever "ply" that is), what do I set Gnubg on to give myself a fairer
> match? Or do I want to? Would cutting back on GNU's ability not be as good
> for my learning?
As someone new to backgammon it would make sense to set GNU at a lower
setting. 0-ply is the lowest setting, and that will no doubt kick butt
against you. It is possible to dumb down GNU further by increasing the
noise factor under GNU's player settings, this will force GNU to make
errors it wouldn't normally. Personally I'd start of with GNU set to
0-ply and see how you fair. If it depresses you to loose all the time,
add some noise to the occasional game. Cutting back on GNU's ability
will not be a factor for you just yet. The analysis tools are more
important.
>
> Is there a way for me to raise my level as I progress? Or do I do that by
> raising GNU's level?
Raising GNU's level will give you stiffer competition. Altering the
settings for a human player is not relevant, just type in your name and
leave it at that.
Your game will improve most quickly if you spend the time to analyze the
matches afterwards and run through all the errors you made. For analysis
I'd say 2-ply reduced will be OK for checker play and 2-ply regular for
cube decisions. The higher the settings the more accurate the end
result, but the longer it will take for the analysis to complete. You
certainly don't want to dumb down GNU when it's performing an analysis
since you want to know what the best move really is.
>
> I'm a bit in the dark, but trying to get a handle on all of this.
>
> I wish GNU folks would put some of this info on their website - all about
> settings, analysis, how interpret the analysis, etc. Does everyone except me
> already know all of this?
>
> Sara
>
GNU is light on help right now. It's still in Beta. It's up to someone
in the BG community to document it for the benefit of others. As yet
that hasn't occurred. So it does make it tough for you especially since
you don't know BG terminology very well. (Keep coming back here and
you'll get the help you need).
I the meantime just make sure you analyze your matches and think about
it's suggestions where it's suggested play differs from your actual
play. If you can't figure out why GNU's play is better post the position
here and you'll get plenty of help and advice. Count yourself lucky to
have GNU pointing out your each and every mistake. Most players had to
start with nothing more than a book or two and the advice of those in a
club (who wanted to win their money anyway).
JP
--
JP White
mailto:jpwh...@bellsouth.net
saratw2
I have now set GNU at 0-ply. (So glad I now know what that means!) He
doesn't need to be looking so far ahead!
Still unsure how to set the analysis of checkers to -2 or cube to regular.
Can't seem to find an option to click on for that.
And I guess that biggest thing right now is trying to understand the
analysis after a game.
I have found the windows drop down menu, and can pull up annotation and game
record. But nothing means much to me. Also there is a place to select
whether a move is good or bad etc - but it does not give me GNU's thoughts,
but instead just records whatever I call it (i.e.- good or bad.)
I don't expect the lights to come on all at once. This is a complex game and
a complex program. But it is a wonderful program and I want to learn to use
it to the fullest.
Thanks for your help.
Sara
JP White <jpwh...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3B9BD1FF...@bellsouth.net...
JP White
>
> JP, thank you for shedding some light on all of this.
>
> I have now set GNU at 0-ply. (So glad I now know what that means!) He
> doesn't need to be looking so far ahead!
>
> Still unsure how to set the analysis of checkers to -2 or cube to regular.
> Can't seem to find an option to click on for that.
Look under Settings, Analysis, Evaluation, Checker Play/cube decisions.
The analysis is kicked of under the Analyze menu option.
Remember while it is analyzing, which can take 15-20 minutes, you can
start another instance of GNUBG and play a game in another set of
windows!! No excuse for slacking!!! Man this is like hard work!!
>
> And I guess that biggest thing right now is trying to understand the
> analysis after a game.
>
> I have found the windows drop down menu, and can pull up annotation and game
> record. But nothing means much to me.
For now ignore the numbers.
Make sure in the annotation window you can see the Move column.
Your move is highlighted in red. Other candidates are in black.
The top of the list of moves is GNU's favorite, if it isn't red you
probably goofed!
Also there is a place to select
> whether a move is good or bad etc - but it does not give me GNU's thoughts,
> but instead just records whatever I call it (i.e.- good or bad.)
In the game panel look for moves with ! or ? after them. Click on them
and you will see that GNU tells you if it's good or bad back over in the
annotation window. You shouldn't need to set it, it should already be
set for you! (Assuming you've already run an analysis on the
game/match).
FYI in the game panel
?? = Very Bad
? = Bad
?! = Doubtful
= OK
!? = Interesting
! = Good
You may occasionally wonder why your move which is the first ranked is
marked as bad or very bad. In that case look at the cube action analysis
and recommendation in the top of the annotation window, chances are you
missed the opportunity to double your opponent. (cube analysis isn't
always reported, only when GNU thinks it is of interest).
saratw2
thanks to you,JP, I was able to locate what I needed.
It is incredible. You click on a move with a question mark (or in my case
2?? ) and it brings the board back to the position of the game before that
move - not numbers, but the board and checkers and all! And then it gives a
suggestion for what I should have done.
I still have lots of questions but will hold them for now.
This is a strong program and I hope I can really utilize it to the fullest.
Sara
JP White <jpwh...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3B9BEEE2...@bellsouth.net...