Any suggestions? Any ideas? (Cranky old farts)
Bob Willey
"assume" that everyone is going to respect your particular
views/peeves. (or even cares)
For instance, it is customary to have "any ideas or suggestions" at the end
of a message, which implies, "If you do not have a firm answer, ideas or
suggestions are welcome". (i.e. Even if you can point me in the right
direction, it is appreciated)
And the "Thanks in advance" is showing courtesy, and that you appreciate
someone even taking time to respond, this does not mean that a "formal
Thank You" will not come after the answer is given. It is being very proper.
This newsgroup is one of the most helpful, but also has some of most cranky
and "word Sensitive" old Curmudgeons.
(This statement alone will infuriate at least one of you, most assuredly).
Don't feel badly people, I have been on this list since about 1987 and have
been slammed by the best of them. (I forgot to include the version once
and got blasted by Bela, forgot to include a setting on a control file and
got reamed by another faithful, etc...). Just go with the flow. You have
to realize that many of the people that respond on this newsgroup are used
to doing customer support for a living, and this is a very thankless job,
and it is easy to get very "sensitive" and sometimes downright nasty,
without even realizing it.
Everyone take a deep breath, say "Ahhhhh"
and Have a Happy Holiday !!! (and get ready for that end-of-year question
at some ridiculous hour :-(
At 08:42 PM 12/21/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>On Thu, 21 Dec 2000 07:10:32 -0500, Tony Lawrence <to...@aplawrence.com>
>wrote:
>
>] Is it just me, or do other folks here find themselves irritated
>] by posts that end with one of:
>]
>] Any ideas?
>] Any suggestions?
>]
>] For some reason that I can't put my finger on, those just
>] (mildly, of course) tick me off. I don't react the same way at
>] all to:
>]
>] Help!
>] Suggestions will be very much appreciated.
>] Does anyone have any suggestions?
>]
>] or any of the dozens of other common closings, but for some
>] reason those first two grate on me.. curmudgeonly old goat that I
>] am.
>
>Well, most everyone I know has pet peeves along these lines. Mine is
>the phrase "Thanks in advance." This nonsensical phrase implies that they're
>going to be too busy or it won't be worth their while to thank me later.
>I also appreciate a useful topic that explains at least what the person
>is after. I've seen people taken to task for top posting, too.
>
>Maybe some of these netiquette items might be valid entries into the group
>FAQ?
>
>--
>
>Jon Reid - jon <at> apeiros <dot> com
-> Bob Willey - b...@ccsenterprisesinc.com <-
CCS Enterprises, Inc.
PO Box 35 Linkwood MD 21835
http://www.ccsenterprisesinc.com Come Visit Us !!
http://www.intercom.net/user/consult
-> (410) 228-9211 -- FAX: (410) 901-1105 <-
Tony Lawrence
> This newsgroup is one of the most helpful, but also has some of most cranky
> and "word Sensitive" old Curmudgeons.
> (This statement alone will infuriate at least one of you, most assuredly).
I plead guilty to being word sensitive, but am not infuriated at
all. I think my objection does boil down to the pointlessness-
it would be more than passingly strange to describe a problem and
NOT be looking for ideas or suggestions (there are certain
exceptions, of course, but in general..)
And remember, I said "mildly annoyed". Inclusion of such
verbiage doesn't cause me to bang my desk, kick the virtual dog,
snarl at the non-existent secretary, or even treat the poster
harshly. I just think it's strange how certain things annoy some
of us and not others- for example, the cardinal sin of top
posting is a complete non-issue with me- in fact, in some
circumstances I think people SHOULD top post (though, like the
deliberate use of incorrect grammar, the occasion for such is
limited and the practice should not be attempted by the
inexperienced).
Words are important- as any devotee of the Unix command line
certainly understands. I'd like to direct your attention to
something I wrote some time ago:
http://www.aplawrence.com/Opinion/control.html and to note that
just as those adept at writing cringe inwardly when presented
with sorrowfully constructed prose, folks adept at the similar
skill of using command lines don't like to see wasted effort-
"unnecessary use of cat" awards and the like. So, while
certainly not claiming any extreme mastery on either front, I
think that my objection to including the obvious "Any ideas?"
stems from at least WANTING to write well, to script well, to
generally just communicate efficiently, whether with computers or
humans.
The article noted above also makes mention of the different
writing or communication abilities found in newsgroups. I made
the claim then that Windows newgroups seemed to me to be
populated by less literate people than those found in groups like
this. Recently, however, my reading of Linux groups has caused
me to see that bad writing and truly feeble communication skills
are unfortunately highly represented there also- something we
never saw much of here. Unfortunately, as much as I really need
to immerse myself in the Linux culture for seemingly obvious
financial reasons, it's jaw-clenchingly difficult to filter the
rantings of yahoos that are so common there- making "Any ideas"
welcome and comforting by comparison! Of course, I'm not
speaking of the folks ANSWERING questions there; just the great
unwashed doing the asking.
Whenever I have feelings like this, I become afraid that I really
am turning into a Cranky Old Fart, so I ask my 20 something year
old son-in-law for his geekish impression (carefully not
revealing my opinions first to avoid any danger of sucking up to
the father-in-law). His opinions of the general stupidity of the
Linux newsgroups are even less friendly than mine, so I must
still have some of my marbles.
So, while Linux may be the salvation (hoped for just as dearly as
any other salvation, I think) for we Unixoids, I'm afraid that it
may only fill our bellies and ignore our need for clarity,
precision, and general goodness.
Any suggestions ? :-)
--
Tony Lawrence (to...@aplawrence.com)
SCO/Linux articles, help, book reviews, tests,
job listings and more : http://www.pcunix.com
Bill Vermillion
>> This newsgroup is one of the most helpful, but also has some of
>> most cranky and "word Sensitive" old Curmudgeons. (This statement
>> alone will infuriate at least one of you, most assuredly).
>I plead guilty to being word sensitive, but am not infuriated at
>all. I think my objection does boil down to the pointlessness-
>it would be more than passingly strange to describe a problem and
>NOT be looking for ideas or suggestions (there are certain
>exceptions, of course, but in general..)
> Unfortunately, as much as I really need to immerse myself in
>the Linux culture for seemingly obvious financial reasons, it's
>jaw-clenchingly difficult to filter the rantings of yahoos that
>are so common there- making "Any ideas" welcome and comforting by
>comparison! Of course, I'm not speaking of the folks ANSWERING
>questions there; just the great unwashed doing the asking.
Asking a question would seem to imply that people are
asking for ideas. However if they then say "Any ideas?", would not
the correct answer then simply be "Yes"?
--
Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com
j...@benburb.demon.co.uk
> think that my objection to including the obvious "Any ideas?"
> stems from at least WANTING to write well, to script well, to
> generally just communicate efficiently, whether with computers or
> humans.
Ah, well put.
[Anyone seriously interested in conciseness and clarity in writing
should read "The Complete Plain Words" by Sir Ernest Gowers. It
really is wonderful. You might consider putting this up on your web
site Tony under recommended reading.]
But surely any criticism of a wish to say "thankyou" reflects the
depths to which we have sunk ?
--
Joe Mc Cool (on occasion guilty of verbiage)
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