An apology concerning Clearwater
Bob Minton
Hash: SHA1
I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
violation of people's civil and human rights. I am not the first
person to go to jail by being willing to stand up to a bigoted
organization who stomps on the civil and human rights of its members
and the public at large. I am also not the stupidest to do that.
However, once again, I regret having let down the side of the good
guys.
Sincerely,
Bob Minton
P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
doubt shortened my fuse. :-(
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Jeff Jacobsen
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>I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
>While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
>the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
>no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
>inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
>in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
>the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
>
>I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>violation of people's civil and human rights.
Apology accepted here. It's very hard to not strike back - that's
why we have wars and criminal courts and stuff. It's much harder to
take abuse, as Gandhi taught
(http://www.primenet.com/~cultxpt/gandhi.htm). Anyone can strick
back, but in the case of dealing with Scientology for sure, it's
better to take the abuse and let the other side show their true
colors.
mad_b...@my-deja.com
b...@minton.org (Bob Minton) wrote:
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> I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
> scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
> moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
> response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
> While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
> the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
> no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
> inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
> in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
> the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
>
Were you alone or in the company of other picketers? I see no mention of
other picketers here. The cult is getting more bold and brazen in its
attempt to keep the Lisa McPherson Trust out of Clearwater. It would be
my unqualified opinion to stay in close physical proximity to other
critics (or even bodyguards) while in the Clearwater area. That would go
not just for yourself, but for ANY picketer during the Dec. picket.
The cult is desperate. The more eyes that are watching them, the less
they can get away with.
<snip>
Mad_Cow (see you in Clearwater)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Chris Leithiser
Bob Minton wrote:
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> I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
> scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
> moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
> response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
> While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
> the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
> no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
> inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
> in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
> the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
>
> I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
> anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
> association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
> harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
> violation of people's civil and human rights. I am not the first
> person to go to jail by being willing to stand up to a bigoted
> organization who stomps on the civil and human rights of its members
> and the public at large. I am also not the stupidest to do that.
> However, once again, I regret having let down the side of the good
> guys.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Bob Minton
>
> P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
> the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
> Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
> doubt shortened my fuse. :-(
As it was no doubt intended to do. Unless it goes against your lawyer's
advice, I would recommend documenting the harassment to whatever judge
you face. Not necessarily in mitigation, but to get it on the record,
indelibly.
gerry armstrong
No, it can for purposes of mitigation, or extenuation. But for any
reason, yes, get an attorney to make a powerful record.
(c) Gerry Armstrong
>
gerry armstrong
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>I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
Well, good timing anyway.
>While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
>the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
>no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
>inappropriate on the video replay (my video).
Well, we pray that the $cientologist is okay.
Ok, Bob, I'm convinced. You're *not* an O$A agent.
>That response landed me
>in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
>the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
Fight any restraining order sought.
>
>I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>violation of people's civil and human rights.
We'll get over our grief, but probably won't get over our friendship.
> I am not the first
>person to go to jail by being willing to stand up to a bigoted
>organization who stomps on the civil and human rights of its members
>and the public at large. I am also not the stupidest to do that.
>However, once again, I regret having let down the side of the good
>guys.
Me too.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Bob Minton
>
>P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
>the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
>Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
>doubt shortened my fuse. :-(
Battery is almost never justified ($cientologist Dan assaulted me on
the October 16 Toronto picket) however the $cientology campaign
against you and their record of physical attacks will certainly
extenuate the alleged offense.
Don't easily plead. Give this charge some time to do some good work.
IANAL, as you know.
Enjoy the weather wherever you are.
(c) Gerry Armstrong
Realpch
>
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> I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
> scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
> moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
> response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
> the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
> no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
> in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
> the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
>
sort of situation? I think that if I were in your shoes and had the
spare change, that's what I'd do.
Peach
Arnie Lerma <www.lermanet.com>
>
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>I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
>While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
>the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
>no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
>inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
>in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
>the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
>
>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>person to go to jail by being willing to stand up to a bigoted
>organization who stomps on the civil and human rights of its members
>and the public at large. I am also not the stupidest to do that.
>However, once again, I regret having let down the side of the good
>guys.
>
>
>Bob Minton
>
>P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
>the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
>Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
>doubt shortened my fuse. :-(
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But that of course was the intent of the scientology harrassment
They have been wondering for years why it hasn't worked already
Hang in there, its just a bump in the road bob.
Arnie Lerma
Secrets are the mortar binding
bricks as lies together into prisons for the mind.
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak.
The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers
The internet is the liberty tree of the 90's http://www.lermanet.com
Arnie Lerma <www.lermanet.com>
oh yeah, rule #1
Turn everything they do to your advantage.
They are underindictment for "Simulation of a Felony" in spain.
From what Ive heard this sounds like the 2nd "simulation of a battery"
Keith Henson
snip
> While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
> the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
> no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
> inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
> in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
> the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
Been there myself--twice. I was reviewing my arrest at the Shrine and two
weeks later at FOLA last night in connection with the latest Shrine picket
before I heard of this. I was arrested (the second time) partly on the
basis of assault for having bitten Edwin Richardson--who had stuck his arm
in my mouth from behind me trying to get a choke hold. I was encumbered
at the time with a picket sign and a large video camera.
It is the price we pay for putting our bodies on the line to control this
deadly parasite on our democratic civilization.
snip
> P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
> the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
> Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
> doubt shortened my fuse. :-(
It may get a lot worse before it gets better. On the other hand, an
awful lot of scientologists who have been in contact with us don't seem to
be in scientology any more.
Keith Henson
Keith Henson
snip
> Bob, have you ever considered hiring some kind of bodyguard for this
> sort of situation? I think that if I were in your shoes and had the
> spare change, that's what I'd do.
Peach, even if the cost is not a factor, getting one is enough of a
problem to cut way into the number of pickets you can do. Keith.
Suzie
>From: Keith Henson hkhe...@netcom19.netcom.com
>Date: Mon, 01 November 1999 02:30 PM EST
>Message-id: <7vkppg$no0$2...@nntp6.atl.mindspring.net>
I don't understand this?? The people who I have known that have had the need
for a bodyguard, the bodyguard simply goes everywhere they do, like a "shadow".
If the person needs privacy (example for a dinner date, etc), the bodyguard
simply steps back a few feet and watches to make sure everything is OK. I
don't see how this would inhibit participation in a picket (I just had a semi
humorous mental picture of some bald guy, built like "Ahnold" S, with shades
on, packing a pistol, holding a "www.xenu.net" sign.)
Back to my original question...I'm probably too new to figure it out, but how
would having a bodyguard preclude someone attending pickets?
Suzie
"I never have to lie to any man because I don't fear anyone. The only time you
lie is when you are afraid." - JJG
roxthefox
>
>There are lots of volunteer organizations that offer training in how
>to deal with the pressure of provocative behavior (taunting,
>name-calling, even physical assault) without responding in kind and
>getting yourself thrown in the pokey. It might be of great use to
>you to seek out an organization that marshals volunteers for, say,
>abortion clinic escort services, and see if you can go through their
>program.
This is good advice. It would be well worth the time to follow up on
this IMHO. I took one of these classes and it was very helpful to me.
Another thing that helped me a lot was Karate. I learned a great deal
of control. That combined with the knowledge that I could really harm
another person, something I never want to do, is a great deterrent to
physical responses.
>
>Maybe Jeff Jacobson has some ideas.
>
>>
>>I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>
>I will include myself in that latter group, and say that your
>apology is accepted. I'm more concerned about you and your welfare
>than I am that this incident will have any umbrella effect on the
>critical movement as a whole (although I'm sure there are plans
>being made right now to use this as a weapon against others).
Me too.
>
>Pay attention to what you need to do for yourself, Bob. Get some
>education and training in how to deal with such confrontations without
>allowing yourself to be _used_ this way.
Be sooooo careful.
>
>Most of all, you need to keep your hands to yourself. This is a
>visualization model I'd use if I were in your position: these people
>who surround me are infected with a deadly disease called "hate." It's
>contagious, and is passed through physical contact. If I touch them,
>I'll die. (Metaphorically: a moral death, as it were.)
Interesting concept. I once told a person, "I'd slap your face, but
I'm afraid I'd catch something". Think of it that way.
>
>--Barbara
>DO NOT REPLY TO ABOVE ADDRESS ;USE tw...@scn.org
>
>
>
>>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>>violation of people's civil and human rights. I am not the first
>>person to go to jail by being willing to stand up to a bigoted
>>organization who stomps on the civil and human rights of its members
>>and the public at large. I am also not the stupidest to do that.
>>However, once again, I regret having let down the side of the good
>>guys.
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>
>>Bob Minton
>>
>>P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
>>the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
>>Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
>>doubt shortened my fuse. :-(
>>
Anonymous
>I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>violation of people's civil and human rights.
How about an apology to the person you hurt Minton?
I'll guess you'll need to spend some money buying off more people on
ars to have them defend your violence and criminal actions.
Anonymous
>While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
>the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
>no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
>inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
>in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
>the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
That's the problem Minton. You apparently have no responsibility for
your actions. Things just happened over which you act like you had no
control and no for which you had responsibility. The police considered your
actions "inappropriate", but you obviously don't. Unbelievable.
How about the police considered your actions "criminal" and you were
rightly arrested. Isn't that more the truth?
Chris Leithiser
> Bob Minton wrote in message <381da3e...@news.newsguy.com>...
>
> >I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
> >anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
> >association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
> >harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
> >violation of people's civil and human rights.
>
> How about an apology to the person you hurt Minton?
Sure. He'll model it on the apology that Ofman gave him for assaulting
Bob last year.
> I'll guess you'll need to spend some money buying off more people on
> ars to have them defend your violence and criminal actions.
When is your cult going to apologize for killing Lisa McPherson,
stealing her money, and having the crassness to appropriate her name?
Patrick L. Humphrey
>Bob Minton wrote in message <381da3e...@news.newsguy.com>...
>>I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>>violation of people's civil and human rights.
>How about an apology to the person you hurt Minton?
Why? The person Bob allegedly hurt was acting on orders from YOUR pack of
rabid thugs. There might be a question as to whether such a person really
deserves an apology, though I'll defer to Bob's judgement on this one, since
he was obviously a party to the incident and I wasn't.
>I'll guess you'll need to spend some money buying off more people on
>ars to have them defend your violence and criminal actions.
Bob didn't pay me a cent to post this response to your usual impotent
dead-agenting, little clam. Postulate _that_.
--PLH, Xenu really loves you, AnonoCoward -- the rest of us think you're an
asshole
Rebecca Hartong
Grady Ward <gr...@gradyward.com> wrote in message
news:ucUdOO13cgPAcd...@4ax.com...
> In fact the people promoting "Gandhi" are doing a disservice
> because it makes ordinary people think they have to be of
> overwhelming purity to be effectively part of the battle.
Bullshit. Anyone who's read anything about Gandhi knows that he was *not* of
overwhelming purity. The power of "Gandhi-tech" is that it is *precisely*
about ordinary people--with all their faults--still striving to behave in a
manner that doesn't bring dishonor to their cause.
Rebecca Hartong
Bob Minton <b...@minton.org> wrote in message
news:381da3e...@news.newsguy.com...
> I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
> anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
> association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
> harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
> violation of people's civil and human rights
Apology accepted. But, jeez-- be careful! I fear there may be a restraining
order in your future. Barbara (Ceon Ramon) has some good advice-- maybe you
should look for some training on how to keep these people from riling you.
David Cecere, ED of the Lisa McPherson Trust
Hash: SHA1
Greetings all,
This missive to ARS is my first official posting as the Executive
Director of the Lisa McPherson Trust. I want to go on record as
accepting Bob's apology as his friend and as his colleague.
I abhor violence and as ED of the Lisa McPherson Trust I will never
advocate violence towards anyone for any reason. To any and all who
would berate Bob for his actions I want to remind you that his is up
against an organization that specializes in emotional manipulation,
lying to its membership and the public, and the foment of hatred
towards all critics of the cult.
Bob's altercation with Flag staffers was unfortunate but it should
server as a reminder to anyone who protests the crimes and abuses of
the scientology cult: they're playing to win the war they have
invented.
David Cecere
P.S. I have signed this message with my new PGP key for David Daniel
Cecere which is available from http://pgp.mit.edu/.
On Mon, 01 Nov 1999 15:05:02 GMT, in article
<381da3e...@news.newsguy.com>, b...@minton.org wrote thusly...
>
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>Hash: SHA1
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>I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
>While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
>the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
>no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
>inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
>in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
>the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
>
>I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>violation of people's civil and human rights. I am not the first
>person to go to jail by being willing to stand up to a bigoted
>organization who stomps on the civil and human rights of its members
>and the public at large. I am also not the stupidest to do that.
>However, once again, I regret having let down the side of the good
>guys.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Bob Minton
>
>P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
>the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
>Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
>doubt shortened my fuse. :-(
>
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***************** Meet me in Clearwater, December 5, 1999 *****************
Doubts of all things earthly, and intuitions of some things heavenly; this
combination makes neither believer nor infidel, but makes a man who regards
them both with equal eye.--Herman Melville
http://www.offlines.org/my_essay.html
Sumo
Anonymous wrote:
>
> Bob Minton wrote in message <381da3e...@news.newsguy.com>...
>
> >I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
> >anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
> >association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
> >harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
> >violation of people's civil and human rights.
>
> How about an apology to the person you hurt Minton?
Hurt? I thought that Scientologists could heal themselves.
Sumo
Mike O'Connor
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Gun Bunny, what is your public PGP key? It's pretty silly to PGP sign a
message when you keep your public key secret.
--
Mike O'Connor - mi...@leptonicsystems.com
<http://www.leptonicsystems.com/>
Anonymous
it does not take a stupid person to do something stupid. Reacting
the way the mafia (ooops i mean Scientology) dearly wanted him to
was "stupid."
b...@minton.org (Bob Minton) wrote:
>I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
>While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
>the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
>no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
>inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
>in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
>the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
>
>I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
T. Devon Sharkey
give you some recommendations..
Beverly Rice
> You need to get yourself out of this situation.
I agree that being a prime target for a bunch of people trained
in bull-baiting and emotional manipulations is a very bad spot
to be in, but by removing himself from the fight, will only be
the outcome that was desired by the pan-determinism of the Co$'s
leadership to begin with.
I believe that he needs to have someone that is capable of being
calm and serene with him when he is going to be in the thick of
Co$ territory like he was this time, as we all need a calming
influence with us in times of stress, expecially when in the
thick of pan-determined, experienced game players.
> With your
> explosive temper you are only going to destroy your life
> by really hurting someone.
I do not find Bob to be "explosive" (nice little button word).
I would say others put in the same pressure cooker as he has
been would have lashed out sooner and harder than Bob, but he
also isn't totally calm either, the Co$ knows this, and uses
it very well to their benefit :-(
> You can blame Scientology and
> Scientologist all you want, but your past actions with a
> shotgun were a warning sign back then.
No more so than the illegal actions, and the physical assaults
by Co$ members on Bob.
However, the Co$ with their PR machine and resources easily make
the issue Bob, rather than the ~teflon~ Co$. But this has been
the issue not just with Bob, but with others who have taken on
a vocal presence with the Co$.
However, Bob should take this knowledge, and turn it in to
wisdom, and not have allowed himself to be put in the spot of
being the prime beef on the spit that he was.
Bob, you need to really, truly, completely stop and realize just
how much the Co$ wants your head on a pike.
You are NOT free to walk the streets. EXPECIALLY NOT FREE IN
CLEARWATER!!
Bob, no offense, you know that I love you . . . but ~WHAT~ were
you thinking?
In the heart of Hubbardville, you are NOT walking the streets of
the US, you are in a place that regards not wog law, but Hubbards
law.
Please, don't do that again!!!!!!!!!
> I suggest you get
> a new cause that will help people and get you out of this
> mess.
Keith, two things; first being that exposing the lies, and the
deceptions of the Co$, and making a safe place is a good cause,
and second, Bob also helps out others that have nothing to do
with the Co$.
> There are many good causes out there that could use
> a person of your calibar.
Thank you for validating Bob, coming from you, saying something
nice about Bob surprises me.
> With this action I don't think anyone would be interested
> renting you a building for the Lisa Foundation in Clearwater.
But yet, people are willing to rent and sell to an organzation
that kills and abuses it's own members in large numbers. Geez,
go figure!!
Strange world . . . but we ~are~ talking about Clearwater, aka.
Hubbardville.
> You have shown that you will use force upon those you say
> you want to save.
Unlike the Co$, Bob doesn't kill his own.
But I will ack your point that Bob needs to temper down, as an
individual he is held accountable for his every action, while the
Co$, due to being granted religious status by the IRS, is
accountable for nothing.
> No one wants to have that going on at
> their place of business.
Unless they are the Co$, then it is business as ususal.
Beverly
Beverly Rice
> Greetings all,
David, I tried to reply to you via mail, but it is bouncing.
Your Mom has my number (Hi Rox!! <g>).
Use it.
Beverly
Rebecca Hartong
>
> >
> >Bullshit. Anyone who's read anything about Gandhi knows that he was *not*
of
> >overwhelming purity. The power of "Gandhi-tech" is that it is *precisely*
> >about ordinary people--with all their faults--still striving to behave in
a
> >manner that doesn't bring dishonor to their cause.
>
> cause?
What does your non sequitur reply here have to do with whether "Gandhi-tech"
sets impossibly high standards for people?
M. C. DiPietra
----------
In article <7vkqql$2a...@enews2.newsguy.com>, "Rebecca Hartong"
<Praet...@mgfairfax.rr.com> wrote:
>
>Bob Minton <b...@minton.org> wrote in message
>news:381da3e...@news.newsguy.com...
>> I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>> anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>> association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>> harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>> violation of people's civil and human rights
>
>Apology accepted. But, jeez-- be careful! I fear there may be a
>restraining
>order in your future. Barbara (Ceon Ramon) has some good advice-- maybe
>you
>should look for some training on how to keep these people from riling
>you.
>
>
Bob,
Before picketing at Cape Canaveral [regarding the issue of
launching Trident II
missles] way back in '87, the Florida Coalition for Peace and
Justice held a class
about civil disobedience. We were taught to expect taunting and
how to react. It
helped that there was a group of us, but I've applied what I
learned there as an
individual many times in life to help me hold my celto-latin
temper...scns are
trained at button-pushing; it might help to get some
counter-training.
---
M.C.DiPietra <mdip...@earthlink.net>, SP4
"Hell, if you understood everything I say,
you'd be me!" -Miles Davis
iva...@medieval.net
gunbu...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Nov 1999 15:05:02 GMT, Bob Minton
> <381da3e...@news.newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> > That response landed me
> >in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
> >the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Bob,
> You need to get yourself out of this situation. With your
> explosive temper you are only going to destroy your life
> by really hurting someone. You can blame Scientology and
> Scientologist all you want, but your past actions with a
> shotgun were a warning sign back then. I suggest you get
> a new cause that will help people and get you out of this
> mess. There are many good causes out there that could use
> a person of your calibar.
> With this action I don't think anyone would be interested
> renting you a building for the Lisa Foundation in Clearwater.
> You have shown that you will use force upon those you say
> you want to save. No one wants to have that going on at
> their place of business.
>
> GB
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGPfreeware 6.0.2i
>
> iQA/AwUBOB3+fS4Z/ewm3l15EQIMlACfc6O0wF3VG6QHbgFmuqMTZQcCq3YAoNRa
> l/sgzladcpnOnWOY8kWgMER/
> =fFhQ
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> --
> The critics of Scientology are dangerous:
> >From: www.xe...@cti.ca (The COder/DECoder)
> >Message-ID: <37beb68d....@news.remarq.com>
> >Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
>
> >I've read enough. I truly hope things are as bad for the cult in
> >Toronto as they say... I'm against racism and violence, but I am
> >making an eception here!
a
wrote:
>On Mon, 01 Nov 1999 09:03:49 -0800, Grady Ward <gr...@gradyward.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>>>I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
>>>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>>>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>>>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
>>
>>
>>The scientologists are experts in hurting and manipulating
>>people. Getting the better of you even if for a moment is a
>>testament to how much they need to be exposed.
>>
>>Bob, you weren't perfect before and you aren't perfect now.
>>Being perfect is not a criterion for fighting evil.
>>
>>In fact the people promoting "Gandhi" are doing a disservice
>>because it makes ordinary people think they have to be of
>>overwhelming purity to be effectively part of the battle.
>
>Huh??? Gandhi Tech has nothing to do with purity, it has to do with
>nonviolence. It's natural and easy to strike out at someone who is
>harassing you, or maybe even physically intimidating you. It's much
>harder to simply absorb the abuse, but that's what Gandhi Tech is
It is still harder to push a pea with your nose, but that does not
mean that it is wise in the face of violence.
>about; absorbing the abuse.
I think this is wrong. To an adversary without a conscience it
merely emboldens them.
> If we as protesters act no better than the people we are
>protesting, then what is our point?
So fighting back is makes one no better than the people we are
protesting?
> I'm probably the biggest promoter of Gandhi Tech here, so let me
>say that I don't connect Gandhi Tech with anything but how we should
>act when we protest Scientology. I myself don't believe all that
>Gandhi taught, but I do embrace his theories of nonviolence and try to
I think his theories of nonviolence are wrong except in narrowly
defined circumstances. Mostly I believe in "tit for tat" which has
some analysis in game theory for stopping aggression the soonest
and giving the greatest gain for the greatest number of people.
>ensure that picketers follow these ideas. It's not easy to follow,
>but the results are great. And in fact I'd say that if you think you
>can't control your temper, don't picket.
I think controlling one's temper has very little to do with Gandhi.
marcab_4
Bob Minton wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
> scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
> moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
> response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
<snip>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Bob Minton
>
> P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
> the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
> Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
> doubt shortened my fuse. :-(
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.5.1
>
> iQA/AwUBOB2ramgj/yM+AH/OEQJuZwCgvyQh85x5ihp36eL5XSt0abUWBoYAnRR/
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well Bob, things happen
is just another case of bait and switch?
or trick or treat?
but you keep going on fight, this is a sign for a good Karma....
You are in the right path...
and btw go to Radio shark and buy a new fuses just in case....
Best Regards
Marcab_4
gerry armstrong
<hkhe...@netcom19.netcom.com> wrote:
>Bob Minton <b...@minton.org> wrote:
>
>snip
>
>> While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
>> the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
>> no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
>> inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
>> in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
>> the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
>
>Been there myself--twice. I was reviewing my arrest at the Shrine and two
>weeks later at FOLA last night in connection with the latest Shrine picket
>before I heard of this. I was arrested (the second time) partly on the
>basis of assault for having bitten Edwin Richardson--who had stuck his arm
>in my mouth from behind me trying to get a choke hold. I was encumbered
>at the time with a picket sign and a large video camera.
>
>It is the price we pay for putting our bodies on the line to control this
>deadly parasite on our democratic civilization.
>
>snip
>
>> P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
>> the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
>> Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
>> doubt shortened my fuse. :-(
>
>It may get a lot worse before it gets better.
As long as the Miscavige regime can get other people to do their dirty
work it will only get so bad, because pretty well all the people doing
the regime's dirty work are basically good. Except for the lawyers
and PIs naturally because they are part of the regime.
When there are no more basically good people to do Miscavige and his
cronies' dirty work, there will be a shift, because Miscavige and his
cronies are not basically good. This could happen any time, so folks,
let's be extra special careful out there.
> On the other hand, an
>awful lot of scientologists who have been in contact with us don't seem to
>be in scientology any more.
Getting down to the not so basically good.
(c) Gerry Armstrong
>
>Keith Henson
>
gerry armstrong
wrote:
>Mister Minton certainly does not seem like a "stupid" person, but
>it does not take a stupid person to do something stupid. Reacting
>the way the mafia (ooops i mean Scientology) dearly wanted him to
>was "stupid."
Acknowledging a stupidity, on the other hand, is fairly wise.
$cientology is too stupid to acknowledge its manifold stupidities.
(c) Gerry Armstrong
>
>b...@minton.org (Bob Minton) wrote:
>
>>I made yet another mistake last night
<snip>
>>I would like to apologize
<snip>
Jeff Jacobsen
>
>>
>>I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
>>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
>
>
>The scientologists are experts in hurting and manipulating
>people. Getting the better of you even if for a moment is a
>testament to how much they need to be exposed.
>
>Bob, you weren't perfect before and you aren't perfect now.
>Being perfect is not a criterion for fighting evil.
>
>In fact the people promoting "Gandhi" are doing a disservice
>because it makes ordinary people think they have to be of
>overwhelming purity to be effectively part of the battle.
Huh??? Gandhi Tech has nothing to do with purity, it has to do with
nonviolence. It's natural and easy to strike out at someone who is
harassing you, or maybe even physically intimidating you. It's much
harder to simply absorb the abuse, but that's what Gandhi Tech is
about; absorbing the abuse.
If we as protesters act no better than the people we are
protesting, then what is our point?
I'm probably the biggest promoter of Gandhi Tech here, so let me
say that I don't connect Gandhi Tech with anything but how we should
act when we protest Scientology. I myself don't believe all that
Gandhi taught, but I do embrace his theories of nonviolence and try to
ensure that picketers follow these ideas. It's not easy to follow,
but the results are great. And in fact I'd say that if you think you
can't control your temper, don't picket.
If you want to read more of my thoughts on that;
www.primenet.com/~cultxpt/gandhi.htm and nonviol.htm
William Barwell
In article <1999110119...@sofuku.monster.org>,
>>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>
>How about an apology to the person you hurt Minton?
How about an apology from Scientology to all the people it has hurt,
and to all the families of people who went PTSIII in Scientology and
committed suicide? How about all teh people attacked and harrassed, such
as Paulette Cooper?
Let Scientology apologize first.
And stop doing this sort of thing.
Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope of Houston
Slack!
Suzie
>Date: Mon, 01 November 1999 05:01 PM EST
>Message-id: <991101220...@MIT.MIT.EDU>
>. Reacting the way the mafia (ooops i mean Scientology)
Pretty soon I will have finished my list of "? (# to be determined) reasons
why the "church" is more nefarious than the alleged mafia". Until then, I'll
repeat my mantra: Any comparisons made between the alleged mafia and the
"church" are an insult...
to the mafia!
Michael Reuss
>> cul...@primenet.com (Jeff Jacobsen) wrote:
>>> Grady Ward <gr...@gradyward.com> wrote:
>>>> Bob Minton wrote:
>>>>I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
>>>>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>>>>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>>>>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
Bob, I'm very disappointed in you. You know they are going to do this.
It's up to you to mentally prepare yourself.
>>>The scientologists are experts in hurting and manipulating
>>>people. Getting the better of you even if for a moment is a
>>>testament to how much they need to be exposed.
Agreed. But as a high profile critic, you need to be in control of
your emotions, and not respond to their bull-baiting.
>>>Bob, you weren't perfect before and you aren't perfect now.
>>>Being perfect is not a criterion for fighting evil.
No, of course not. But in a battle for public opinion, the "snapshot"
images are important, too, and Bob has consistently given the cult
(and his other critics) lot's of material with which to discredit him.
>>>In fact the people promoting "Gandhi" are doing a disservice
>>>because it makes ordinary people think they have to be of
>>>overwhelming purity to be effectively part of the battle.
Horseshit, Grady. Gandhi wasn't perfect, and nobody is expecting
picketing "perfection" from anyone (as if we would know what
perfection looked like, in any case). We just want non-violence.
>>Huh??? Gandhi Tech has nothing to do with purity, it has to do with
>>nonviolence. It's natural and easy to strike out at someone who is
>>harassing you, or maybe even physically intimidating you. It's much
>>harder to simply absorb the abuse, but that's what Gandhi Tech is
Exactly.
> It is still harder to push a pea with your nose, but that does not
> mean that it is wise in the face of violence.
Do we know there was violence against Bob first? It didn't sound that
way to me...
>>about; absorbing the abuse.
We do not picket to "get even." We picket to inform and persuade.
> I think this is wrong. To an adversary without a conscience it
> merely emboldens them.
You don't seem to understand what has hurt the cult over the past few
years. It is not that people have lashed out at the cult, but rather
it has been getting the cult to just be it's true self in a public
forum. An emboldened, arrogant cult is exactly what a good picket
should seek to achieve (and hopefully someone will get it on camera).
>> If we as protesters act no better than the people we are
>>protesting, then what is our point?
In general, I agree with your point, Jeff. But I'm not willing to
concede that Bob's lashing out in anger against a person who had been
harassing him for hours would make Bob "just as bad as the cult."
> So fighting back is makes one no better than the people we are
> protesting?
>> I'm probably the biggest promoter of Gandhi Tech here, so let me
>>say that I don't connect Gandhi Tech with anything but how we should
>>act when we protest Scientology. I myself don't believe all that
>>Gandhi taught, but I do embrace his theories of nonviolence and try to
> I think his theories of nonviolence are wrong except in narrowly
> defined circumstances. Mostly I believe in "tit for tat" which has
> some analysis in game theory for stopping aggression the soonest
> and giving the greatest gain for the greatest number of people.
The fastest way to help the largest number of people, is to have the
cult exposed as hurtful totalitarian bullies. It's harder to get that
message out if they can claim (even if falsely) that violence and
bigotry are motivating the critics.
>> And in fact I'd say that if you think you can't control your
>> temper, don't picket.
I agree.
> I think controlling one's temper has very little to do with Gandhi.
I don't know what history you've studied, 'a.'
Michael Reuss
Honorary Kid
Michael Reuss
>> Anonymous <nob...@replay.com> wrote:
>>> Bob Minton wrote in message <381da3e...@news.newsguy.com>...
>>>I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>>>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>>>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>>>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>>>violation of people's civil and human rights.
>> How about an apology to the person you hurt Minton?
Do we know that someone got hurt? That is not clear from Bob's initial
description.
But if Bob did hurt someone, I would agree that an apology would be in
order.
> How about an apology from Scientology to all the people it has hurt,
> and to all the families of people who went PTSIII in Scientology and
> committed suicide? How about all teh people attacked and harrassed, such
> as Paulette Cooper?
An apology for all these things has long been in order, of course.
And it has not been forthcoming.
> Let Scientology apologize first.
Why? I disagree with this.
Michael Reuss
Honorary Kid
Ted Mayett
>inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
>in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
>the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
>
Oh boy, the cult will turn this into the FBI's 10 most wanted :-)
>I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>anyone here
Grief? no, guilt by association is all. And from the sounds of it a
very mild guilt. Perhaps Mark Bunker will make an video file?
Roger Gonnet
Bob Minton <b...@minton.org> a écrit dans le message :
381da3e...@news.newsguy.com...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
> moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
> response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
> the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
> no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
> in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
> the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
Could we know what you said? I imagine it was somewhat the truth, uttered
with ugly words!
>
> I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
> anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
> association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
> harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
> violation of people's civil and human rights. I am not the first
> person to go to jail by being willing to stand up to a bigoted
> organization who stomps on the civil and human rights of its members
> and the public at large. I am also not the stupidest to do that.
> However, once again, I regret having let down the side of the good
> guys.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Bob Minton
>
> P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
> the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
> Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
> doubt shortened my fuse.
>
Roger Gonnet
a <a@a.a> a écrit dans le message : RmYeOL=JOgBVuQeYw...@4ax.com...
> >say that I don't connect Gandhi Tech with anything but how we should
> >act when we protest Scientology. I myself don't believe all that
> >Gandhi taught, but I do embrace his theories of nonviolence and try to
>
> I think his theories of nonviolence are wrong except in narrowly
> defined circumstances. Mostly I believe in "tit for tat" which has
> some analysis in game theory for stopping aggression the soonest
> and giving the greatest gain for the greatest number of people.
Methinks that a guy so able to love his people and even his enemies can't be
wrong.
Non violence is'nt a "tech". The mere use of such a word to define Gandhi's
extraordinary task is an insult; love is no tech at all, it's life.
>
>
> >ensure that picketers follow these ideas. It's not easy to follow,
> >but the results are great. And in fact I'd say that if you think you
> >can't control your temper, don't picket.
Why not: anybody has a right to lose temper. As long as one does'nt add
physical violence...
Roger
roxthefox
Bob,
In the future, when you travel around the heart of Flag Org country,
take a body guard along and maybe two. Don't go there alone. You are
not safe there.
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
>While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
>the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
>no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
>inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
>in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
>the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
>
>I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>violation of people's civil and human rights. I am not the first
>person to go to jail by being willing to stand up to a bigoted
>organization who stomps on the civil and human rights of its members
>and the public at large. I am also not the stupidest to do that.
>However, once again, I regret having let down the side of the good
>guys.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Bob Minton
>
>P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
>the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
>Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
>doubt shortened my fuse. :-(
Ron Newman
<mdip...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Before picketing at Cape Canaveral [regarding the issue of
> launching Trident II missles] way back in '87, the Florida Coalition
> for Peace and Justice held a class about civil disobedience.
> We were taught to expect taunting and how to react.
I went through similar mandatory "nonviolence training" sessions
before participating in large civil disobedience protests against
the Seabrook, New Hampshire nuclear power plant (in 1977) and
against US military involvement in Central America (in the mid-1980s).
Part of that "training" involved role-playing, where each person
alternately takes the role of a protester, a police officer, or
a hostile bystander. If you can find people who have been through
this training, I recommend talking to them before attending another
Clearwater picket.
--
Ron Newman rne...@thecia.net
http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/
Ron Newman
<sect...@worldnet.fr> wrote:
> Non violence is'nt a "tech". The mere use of such a word to define Gandhi's
> extraordinary task is an insult; love is no tech at all, it's life.
"Tech" is short for "technique", and non-violent protest is definitely
a technique, one that can be learned and improved on. You don't need to
have a religious belief in non-violence, as the Quakers do, to recognize
its usefulness in a political protest movement.
Peter B. Perlsø
> I suggest you get
> a new cause that will help people and get you out of this
> mess. There are many good causes out there that could use
> a person of your calibar.
An OSA Xmas wish, anyone?
Fight on, Bob! :)
--
Best Regards, Peter B. Perlsų - http://www.titancity.com
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM - all the reasons you need to get a Mac...
If you wish to mail me, use this address:
p b p (at) a d r (dot) d k
ra...@adsl-151-203-22-73.bellatlantic.net
>>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
>
>
>people. Getting the better of you even if for a moment is a
>testament to how much they need to be exposed.
Also, watch for manipulation of the presence of cameras. Shouting and
pushing by them where the camera can't see, then stepping into the
glare of the camera for your response. That got tried on me at one
protest (stiff finger in the middle of my chest). While a physical
response by me might have been legal, it would have looked bad on
the video tape and made the cops leery of future protests.
Bob, I realize you might not wish to say in a public record before a
court date precisely whether you struck someone, pushed back, or what:
save it for court. But if we can get access to the video somehow, this
would be interesting to see and instructive for future protests.
--
Nico Kadel-Garcia
nka...@bellatlantic.net
Bern
<381E087D...@patriot.net>:
>Anonymous wrote:
>>
>> Bob Minton wrote in message <381da3e...@news.newsguy.com>...
>>
>> >I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>> >anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>> >association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>> >harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>> >violation of people's civil and human rights.
>>
>> How about an apology to the person you hurt Minton?
>
>Hurt? I thought that Scientologists could heal themselves.
Where have you read that?
_________________________
Bernie -- http://welcome.to/ars
roxthefox
wrote:
>On Tue, 02 Nov 1999 08:32:46 GMT, ian...@yahoo.com (roxthefox) wrote:
>
>
>>
>>In the future, when you travel around the heart of Flag Org country,
>>take a body guard along and maybe two. Don't go there alone. You are
>>not safe there.
>>
>
>
>And that's exactly what the criminal cult of scientology wants you to
>worry about.
It is fairly obvious is it not?
>
>Obviously it's not safe on Normandy Beach, but a beachhead will
>be established nonetheless.
Ah ha, and how would you recommend doing this? Do you have a better
idea? I suspect, by golly, that Bob is a bit concerned at this point
not only for his physical safety but, that he will no doubt be set up
again.
I don't think anyone would have been foolish enough to go to Normandy
Beach alone and unarmed.
"Discretion is the better part of valor" after all.
Sumo
Ted Mayett
<sect...@worldnet.fr> wrote:
>
>Non violence is'nt a "tech". The mere use of such a word to define Gandhi's
>extraordinary task is an insult; love is no tech at all, it's life.
>
Nicely said.
Dobe R Mann
Sumo <su...@patriot.net> wrote in message
news:381F2D77...@patriot.net...
>
>
> Bern wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 01 Nov 1999 16:39:09 -0500 Sumo
<su...@patriot.net> wrote in
> > <381E087D...@patriot.net>:
(chomp)
> > >
> > >Hurt? I thought that Scientologists could heal
themselves.
> >
> > Where have you read that?
> >
> > _________________________
> > Bernie -- http://welcome.to/ars
>
>
> http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/sh6.htm
>
> On the above $cientology Web Site.
>
>
> Sumo
TOUCHÉ!!
;-)
--
Dobe R Mann
SP3 Tone 1.95
_____________________________________________
"Look netizens! Another person just read
about the Co$, Xenu, Elron and the rest of
the rot." "Watch now! .... look!
... oooohhh there they go folks!
Another ARSCC(wdne) member."
Read www.xenu.net
See www.xenutv.com
_____________________________________________
INCIDENT 4
LOUD SNAP (Bones breaking)
CHEVROLETS COME OUT
BURN RUBBER
FISHTAIL RIGHT
DO U-TURN
STALL
FLAT TIRE (No motion)
BLOWS HORN
BLOWS MISCAVIGE
CRASH
Ishmael
David
On Mon, 01 Nov 1999 19:13:52 -0500, in article <381E2C...@ao.net>, Beverly
wrote thusly...
>
>David, Cecere, ED of the Lisa McPherson Trust wrote:
>
>> Greetings all,
>
>David, I tried to reply to you via mail, but it is bouncing.
>
>Your Mom has my number (Hi Rox!! <g>).
>
>Use it.
>
>Beverly
***************** Meet me in Clearwater, December 5, 1999 *****************
Doubts of all things earthly, and intuitions of some things heavenly; this
combination makes neither believer nor infidel, but makes a man who regards
them both with equal eye.--Herman Melville
http://www.offlines.org/my_essay.html
Martin Hunt
>The scientologists are experts in hurting and manipulating
>people.
Yes.
>Getting the better of you even if for a moment is a
>testament to how much they need to be exposed.
Sure.
>Bob, you weren't perfect before and you aren't perfect now.
>Being perfect is not a criterion for fighting evil.
But not hitting people is.
>In fact the people promoting "Gandhi" are doing a disservice
>because it makes ordinary people think they have to be of
>overwhelming purity to be effectively part of the battle.
Bullshit. There's a big difference between "perfect" and
physically abusive to such an extent it lands you in jail.
Why don't you accept Bob's gracious apology for his bad
behaviour at face value, rather than using it as a platform
from which to grandstand and lecture about the evils of
being peaceful, Grady.
>Since they are not they do not join it at all and become one of
>the indifferent masses who let the banality of evil flourish.
Oh, fuck off.
>I'd rather you come in mistakes and all.
What are YOU, the welcoming committee? LOL!!!!!
>What errors we do are lessons for people following us.
Yeah yeah yeah. Let me know when you get your head out of
your ass, Ward. Or is it in the clouds?
>Like the old saying, if you don't make mistakes,
>then you aren't taking enough chances.
Like the old saying, cheap cliches are a feeble excuse for
thinking.
>You haven't let anyone down, even with occassional "bad bits"
>from Cosmic rays, you continue to inspire us.
Who's "we", white man? Bob doesn't inspire me to anything but
making the point more violently that peaceful means are the
only means, and angry young men - whether they be balding or
53 - are not welcome.
>Thank you for
>putting yourself on the line virtually every day for all of us.
"All of us"? Grady, you need your head examined. I mean that
in a nice way.
Bob doesn't "put himself on the line" for "us". He does what
he feels to be right, and sometimes fucks up badly. At least
now he's getting to the point where he can admit it. Who
knows, maybe this will be the experience that allows him to
grow up a bit and stop acting the fool. Then again, maybe he
just needs some anger management classes. Whatever it is, I
hope he gets his shit together - your whining, pious, self-
righteous bullshit notwithstanding.
--
Cogito, ergo sum. http://scientologysucks.lron.com
Watch Xenu TV: http://www.xenutv.com
Go to a protest in your area: http://www.xenu.net/picket/
The premier Scientology webpage: www.xenu.net
Mr. Hamra said, "The Church of Scientology now had a database
of information on every subscriber which included names, credit
card info., credit reports, telephone info., computer info.,
who had referred them to Earthlink and who were their previous
ISP providers." Mr. Hamra told me about the "other Earthlink
building" which was next door on New York Avenue in Pasadena.
Mr. Hamra told me that the other building was high security and
is where Earthlink and the Church of Scientology did all the
monitoring of the internet. - DECLARATION OF ROBERT J. CIPRIANO.
Martin Hunt
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
Assuming this isn't a troll; I didn't check the PGP signature.
>I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
IOW: I punched someone.
>While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
>the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
>no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
>inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
>in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
>the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
I predicted this several months ago. I don't get any joy out
of being "right", though. Bob, you need to get ahold of your
anger and rage. If not, you need to become less physically on
the spot, on the front lines. Everyone has their ability, their
strengths, their weaknesses. Your strength is your money and
perhaps the media; you'd do well to leave front line stuff to
other, calmer people.
>I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>violation of people's civil and human rights.
Hypocrisy? Now, that's ironic.
>I am not the first
>person to go to jail by being willing to stand up to a bigoted
>organization who stomps on the civil and human rights of its members
>and the public at large.
But you may well be the first critic to go to jail for beating
up a brainwashed cult victim. I don't recall anyone else around
ars spending time in jail for physical violence.
>I am also not the stupidest to do that.
There's another critic who's gone to jail who's stupider than
you? I have my doubts...
>However, once again, I regret having let down the side of the good
>guys.
You do what you do on your own; I, along with many other critics
on ars, distanced myself from your "dog shit slapping" tactics
a long time ago.
You fucked up, and, in a round about way, you apologized. Apology
accepted. Don't do it again.
I'm reminded of the movie about gameshows. After a long grandstanding
speech, the contestant who cheated was lauded by most of the
politicians on the inquiry panel. But the one from New York said
it right: "where I come from, you don't get applauded for making
a mistake."
>Sincerely,
>
>Bob Minton
>
>P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
>the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
>Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
>doubt shortened my fuse. :-(
You better lengthen that sucker.
Bob, I hope that this experience has taught you a valuable lesson.
I hope you take some time to think about your rage and find some
better way of dealing with your anger. My standard suggestion is
to fly to paradise and laze about on the beach for a week or two.
Beyond that, maybe it's time to look into some anger management
classes.
Grady has suggested that only "perfect" people can avoid beating
scientologists up when they meet them. I humbly suggest otherwise;
in the many hundreds of pickets done by the people on this newsgroup
since I first suggested that we picket the cult at their storefronts,
yours is the first case that has landed a critic in jail. Surely,
then, Jeff's Ghandi Tech idea is a roaring success; it seems to
have worked in something over 99.9% of cases!
Mike O'Connor
(Martin Hunt) wrote:
>b...@minton.org (Bob Minton) wrote:
>
>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>Hash: SHA1
>
>Assuming this isn't a troll; I didn't check the PGP signature.
>
>>I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
[...]
The PGP signature was good.
--
Mike O'Connor - mi...@leptonicsystems.com
<http://www.leptonicsystems.com/>
Anonymous
>I made yet another mistake last night ...
>[snip]
>Bob Minton
I would be interested in hearing about which of your previous
actions you actually feel were mistakes. I think I must have
missed mention of those in your previous postings.
Was it your anonymous Dorian messages and all that baloney?
Was it calling the wrong Kluge an "OSA Whore" and then
refusing to apologize to him when the mistake was pointed out?
Maybe you consider telling people to lick the dog shit off your
shoes a mistake now. Was that a mistake?
Or, were the terrible things you said about Diane a mistake?
Was the affair with Stacy which you lied in the national media
about a mistake?
Or maybe it was just the fact that you told her you would marry her
and never did.
Were you mistaken when you and Jesse threw rocks at the vehicles of
Scientologists and threatened them with axes.
Maybe firing at people with a shotgun was a mistake?
Was it your marching around with a NAZI sign that was a mistake?
Please clarify this for ars so we know where you stand.
Jens Tingleff
Hash: SHA1
In article <1999110119...@sofuku.monster.org>, Anonymous
<nob...@replay.com> wrote:
> Bob Minton wrote in message <381da3e...@news.newsguy.com>...
>
> >While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
> >the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to
have
> >no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
> >inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed
me
> >in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours
of
> >the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
>
[..]
>
> How about the police considered your actions "criminal" and you were
> rightly arrested. Isn't that more the truth?
Bwahahahahaaa!!
Oh boy, a few hordes of OSA-bots are really, REALLY, loosing bladder
and bowel control. Watch out you don't foul your ersatz gestapo boots!
Cheers
Jens
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Version: PGPfreeware 6.0.2i for non-commercial use
iQA/AwUBOB/kIYpibNwJcjwSEQL15QCgpy3AcA9mdWkVptLH/kXY4qM64+MAn0QT
sR9ptxeRJ18zo7ydX2sabHqd
=gDax
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--
Jens Tingleff, j.tin...@ieee.org / jens_t...@yahoo.com
------ PGP v5 DSS Key ID : 0x09722C12 . Merci, Mr. Jospin ;-) ------
http://www.imaginet.fr/~jensting/. Scientology[tm]?? Check it out at
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/mpoulter/scum.html *and*
http://www.scientology.org/. Report to alt.religion.scientology ;-)
roxthefox
>The Mafia is just Italians helping Italians.
Correction, used to be Italians helping Italians. Now it is thugs
helping themselves to your money and your worldly goods. But, isn't
that Scientology as well?
The $cienos are just
>catch-basins for disembodied alien spirits, helping no one -- except
>maybe the wheezing dwarf with the public sodomy fixation; they're even
>hellbent to drive the poor disembodied alien spirits away.
>
>Knowing how they treat the bodiless, one can only wonder and cringe at
>how they must treat the homeless.
Roger Gonnet
Ron Newman <rne...@thecia.net> a écrit dans le message :
rnewman-0211...@ppp39-182.thecia.net...
> In article <7vm7e9$2oi9$8...@news5.isdnet.net>, "Roger Gonnet"
> <sect...@worldnet.fr> wrote:
>
> > Non violence is'nt a "tech". The mere use of such a word to define
Gandhi's
> > extraordinary task is an insult; love is no tech at all, it's life.
>
> a technique, one that can be learned and improved on. You don't need to
> have a religious belief in non-violence, as the Quakers do, to recognize
> its usefulness in a political protest movement.
I did not mean that; I did mean that love is no tech, Ron; non violent
protests is another part of that love's application, that's the why of my
post.
roger
Bern
<381F2D77...@patriot.net>:
>Bern wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 01 Nov 1999 16:39:09 -0500 Sumo <su...@patriot.net> wrote in
>> <381E087D...@patriot.net>:
>>
>> >Anonymous wrote:
>> >> How about an apology to the person you hurt Minton?
>> >
>> >Hurt? I thought that Scientologists could heal themselves.
>>
>> Where have you read that?
>http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/sh6.htm
>
>On the above $cientology Web Site.
Oh, ok. It says there "The fact is, after any necessary medical
treatment, the individual himself has an enormous capacity to
influence the body and its well-being or lack of it."
So, you get medical treatment, if necessary, then apply several
processes (named there) through which the spirit can help the body to
recover. It doesn't necessarily ensue that the person will heal if the
wound is important. It also doesn't mean that the person isn't hurt to
begin with.
Sumo
I would be interested in knowing what type of scientific studies have
been done to determine that these 'assits' help speed up recovery. If
this is the case shouldn't $cientologists be spreading the word freely
instead of charging people to learn the beliefs behind $cientology?
Sumo
KFarris357
>Date: Wed, 03 November 1999 04:17 PM EST
>Message-id: <3820A668...@patriot.net>
>I would be interested in knowing what type of scientific studies have
>been done to determine that these 'assits' help speed up recovery. If
>this is the case shouldn't $cientologists be spreading the word freely
>instead of charging people to learn the beliefs behind $cientology?
>
Just to play devil's advocate: By that statement, why do Doctors and
Pharmacists charge money instead of spreading their works freely?
Ken
gerry armstrong
Because they haven't yet cognited on how much more safe, courteous,
sane, peaceful, helpful, wise it would be to not charge money. One
could say they're as dense as $cientologists.
Sign OUR Pledge today.
(c) Gerry Armstrong
>
>Ken
Blue Xenu
Idealism is a nice thought, but Communism doesn't work.
>Sign OUR Pledge today.
Pledge?
>
>(c) Gerry Armstrong
>>
>>Ken
>
Ian Rennie
> >From: Sumo su...@patriot.net
> >Date: Wed, 03 November 1999 04:17 PM EST
> >Message-id: <3820A668...@patriot.net>
>
> >I would be interested in knowing what type of scientific studies have
> >been done to determine that these 'assits' help speed up recovery. If
> >this is the case shouldn't $cientologists be spreading the word freely
> >instead of charging people to learn the beliefs behind $cientology?
> >
>
> Just to play devil's advocate: By that statement, why do Doctors and
> Pharmacists charge money instead of spreading their works freely?
move to the UK
>
> Ken
>
>
M. C. DiPietra
----------
In article <19991103165652...@ng-cg1.aol.com>,
kfarr...@aol.com (KFarris357) wrote:
Are you implying that Scientology provides health care [tell it
to Lisa]?
Doctors and Pharmacists don't charge for philosophy. You can
usually get that
free for the asking.
>
>Ken
---
M.C.DiPietra <mdip...@earthlink.net>, SP4
"Hell, if you understood everything I say,
you'd be me!" -Miles Davis
Catarina Pamnell
Ted Mayett skrev i meddelandet <382431c7...@enews.newsguy.com>...
>On Tue, 2 Nov 1999 09:10:52 +0100, "Roger Gonnet"
><sect...@worldnet.fr> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Non violence is'nt a "tech". The mere use of such a word to define
Gandhi's
>>extraordinary task is an insult; love is no tech at all, it's life.
>>
>
>
A very nice way to put it, Roger.
I whole-heartedly agree with Jeff and others on this.
It is wise for picketers and would-be-picketers to consider this point in
advance. Training sounds very good. It also takes some redefinition of "win"
and "lose". Many people instinctively use aggression as a way to gain
respect and a higher position in the eyes of the opposition. But when you
are faced with a planned provocation like this, striking back physically is
not going to make the attackers think more of you, but less - you show that
you will allow them to control your actions.
To follow your own plans, to get your message out, to make friends with
public in the street, to get a scientologist to engage in a few minutes of
peaceful conversation even though you are an eeeevil essspeee, to have fun -
that's "winning" against the cult.
Catarina
KFarris357
>Date: Thu, 04 November 1999 07:39 AM EST
>Message-id: <38217...@news2.lightlink.com>
>
>Are you implying that Scientology provides health care [tell it
>to Lisa]?
>
No, I was implying that they (Scientologist) claim to provide "spiritual
healing" that speeds up real healing.
>Doctors and Pharmacists don't charge for philosophy. You can
>usually get that
>free for the asking.
Well, that depends. Some doctors are holistic doctors (as opposed to standard
medicine). In a sense you a paying for their philosophy of healing when you
pay for their services.
Some doctors have been accused of witholding services in order to collect
bonuses from HMO's.. What's the difference.
(I personally think they are both atrocious. Again, I'm just playing devil's
advocate)
Ken
Bern
<19991103165652...@ng-cg1.aol.com>:
>>From: Sumo su...@patriot.net
>>Date: Wed, 03 November 1999 04:17 PM EST
>>Message-id: <3820A668...@patriot.net>
>
>>I would be interested in knowing what type of scientific studies have
>>been done to determine that these 'assits' help speed up recovery. If
>>this is the case shouldn't $cientologists be spreading the word freely
>>instead of charging people to learn the beliefs behind $cientology?
>
>Just to play devil's advocate: By that statement, why do Doctors and
>Pharmacists charge money instead of spreading their works freely?
I've heard of a system somewhere in Asia where you pay the doctor to
*stay* healthy. Not sure what you do if you fall ill, maybe he has to
reimburse you some money or something. It's the reverse of our system
in which doctors cash money only when you are ill.
Ted Mayett
<cata...@pamnell.com> wrote:
>
>Ted Mayett skrev i meddelandet <382431c7...@enews.newsguy.com>...
>>On Tue, 2 Nov 1999 09:10:52 +0100, "Roger Gonnet"
>><sect...@worldnet.fr> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Non violence is'nt a "tech". The mere use of such a word to define
>Gandhi's
>>>extraordinary task is an insult; love is no tech at all, it's life.
>>>
>>
>>Nicely said.
>>
>
>A very nice way to put it, Roger.
>
>I whole-heartedly agree with Jeff and others on this.
>
Ummm, Jeff and Roger are saying two different things here.
Ian Rennie
hang on... I thought health insurance meant that they got more money if
you staed healthy. Maybe I'm thinking of NI in the UK
Bern
in <Pine.SOL.3.95L.99110...@mailer.york.ac.uk>:
Yes, you right about health insurance, but they have to rely on
doctor's opinion.
Roger Gonnet
Ted Mayett <Ted.M...@worldnet.att.net> a écrit dans le message :
3825f8d0...@enews.newsguy.com...
sure, but I think we agree on this, once clarified my viewpoint about it.
roger
>
>
Martin Hunt
>In article <381e5...@news2.lightlink.com>, "M. C. DiPietra"
><mdip...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Before picketing at Cape Canaveral [regarding the issue of
>> launching Trident II missles] way back in '87, the Florida Coalition
>> for Peace and Justice held a class about civil disobedience.
>> We were taught to expect taunting and how to react.
>
>I went through similar mandatory "nonviolence training" sessions
>before participating in large civil disobedience protests against
>the Seabrook, New Hampshire nuclear power plant (in 1977) and
>against US military involvement in Central America (in the mid-1980s).
>
>Part of that "training" involved role-playing, where each person
>alternately takes the role of a protester, a police officer, or
>a hostile bystander. If you can find people who have been through
>this training, I recommend talking to them before attending another
>Clearwater picket.
While it's true, as Grady as sarcastically pointed out, that I've
only done two demonstrations against Scientology, these weren't
my first protests - before than, going back many years, I attended
protests against a local polluting pulp mill, a sewer going into
a small town, an attempt by business to destroy a local farmer's
market, and the obligatory anti-nuke demonstrations. It occured to
me that this might be why Bob has such trouble on protests against
Scientology; perhaps these are the first demonstrations he's done
in his life, and he doesn't have a knowledge base from which to
draw useful skills to avoid violent encounters? My first violent
encounter at a protest was when I was 13 years old, when I was
physically assaulted by a 40 years old man then dragged down the
street.* Then again, anyone who's been through Scientology has
also learned a few skills during "bullbaiting" on how to take abuse
quietly, thus turning it to their own advantage. There's a time
to stand up and defend yourself and oppose violence with violence,
but that usually is not a protest. Even worse is to initiate the
violence, even with extreme (yet non-violent) provocation. Bob's
sure this is a sign of weakness. He's even convinced some of the
regulars who are closest to him that this is a sensible course of
action. But it isn't weakness, it's strength. It takes incredible
strength to stand up to Scientology's - or any other oppressive
group's - attacks without succumbing to your own emotions. Only
strong people can be non-violent; weak people give in and submit
to a force within them that they cannot control.
Martin Hunt
>Obviously it's not safe on Normandy Beach, but a beachhead will
>be established nonetheless.
Scientology isn't the nazi's, and they aren't mowing us down
with machine-guns. Analogies between this pissant cult and
the third reich are over the top.
Hunt's Law: "the closer you are to something, the harder it is
to see."
Martin Hunt
>How does protecting myself against aggression bring dishonor to my
>cause?
If you're that concerned about being hurt, don't go to demonstrations.
Surely you would be quite safe at home.
Tommy
>
> On Tue, 02 Nov 1999 13:29:11 -0500 Sumo <su...@patriot.net> wrote in
> <381F2D77...@patriot.net>:
>
> >Bern wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mon, 01 Nov 1999 16:39:09 -0500 Sumo <su...@patriot.net> wrote in
> >> <381E087D...@patriot.net>:
> >>
> >> >Anonymous wrote:
>
> >> >> How about an apology to the person you hurt Minton?
> >> >
> >> >Hurt? I thought that Scientologists could heal themselves.
> >>
> >> Where have you read that?
>
> >http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/sh6.htm
> >
> >On the above $cientology Web Site.
>
> Oh, ok. It says there "The fact is, after any necessary medical
> treatment, the individual himself has an enormous capacity to
> influence the body and its well-being or lack of it."
>
> So, you get medical treatment, if necessary, then apply several
> processes (named there) through which the spirit can help the body to
> recover. It doesn't necessarily ensue that the person will heal if the
> wound is important. It also doesn't mean that the person isn't hurt to
> begin with.
Oh, without a doubt! Look for the $cieno who Bob Minton had the
altercation with to show up sporting a full body cast, complete with
traction rings....
Tommy
--
Thank you for your very detailed letter regarding
Scientology. We haven't yet found a way to attack
these jackals who feed on children and young adults
who are too emotionally weak to stand by themselves
when they reach the age of consent.
Congressman Leo J. Ryan, shortly before being gunned down
by another cult in Jonestown
Steve A
wrote:
> Bob Minton wrote in message <381da3e...@news.newsguy.com>...
>
> >I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
> >anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
> >association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
> >harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
> >violation of people's civil and human rights.
>
> How about an apology to the person you hurt Minton?
Regardless of what Bob may or may not have done to this individual, it
seems from what Bob says (and, let's face it, it squares with the
experiences of anyone who has done any picketing of CoS) that there
was a severe degree of provocation, which, I have no doubt, the police
will take into account. Particularly if Bob's lawyer can present the
events a while back in Boston, when he was assaulted by Ofman and then
himself charged with assault - a charge which CoS subsequently
dropped.
Incidentally, I wonder if CoS would be happy with the same kind of
grudging, navel-staring-while-shuffling-feet-and-mumbling, apology
that Bob got from Frank Ofman per the agreement where charges were
dropped against him (Bob).
And I expect that, in the interests of making sure they're operating
to the same standards that they hold their critics to, the Church of
Scientology will be wanting to make an apology to the family of Lisa
McPherson for succeeding in killing her.
> I'll guess you'll need to spend some money buying off more people on
> ars to have them defend your violence and criminal actions.
You carry on believing that only Minton Money is what motivates people
to oppose Scientology, Anonymous. The final defeat will come as that
much more of a surprise, and I'm sure you like surprises, don't you?
--
There is no legitimate reason to send email to nu...@castlsys.demon.co.uk
Mail to this address will be treated as SPAM/UCE and reported accordingly
Steve A, SP4++, GGBC, KBM, Unsalvageable PTS/SP #12,
pitiable little Dennie (plD) #1, non-Mintonista.
Banned by Windows 1984 ScienoSitter (2e+isp)
"Where don't they want you to go today?" - http://www.xenu.net
Steve A
Trust <David_...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Greetings all,
>
> This missive to ARS is my first official posting as the Executive
> Director of the Lisa McPherson Trust. I want to go on record as
> accepting Bob's apology as his friend and as his colleague.
>
> I abhor violence and as ED of the Lisa McPherson Trust I will never
> advocate violence towards anyone for any reason. To any and all who
> would berate Bob for his actions I want to remind you that his is up
> against an organization that specializes in emotional manipulation,
> lying to its membership and the public, and the foment of hatred
> towards all critics of the cult.
>
> Bob's altercation with Flag staffers was unfortunate but it should
> server as a reminder to anyone who protests the crimes and abuses of
> the scientology cult: they're playing to win the war they have
> invented.
Yup. And we also have to remember that we've been here before. Sure, a
lot of the problem is down to Bob's reaction to the provocation, but
how many of us can be sure, in our heart of hearts, that, faced with
the same provocation, we'd be able to restrain ourselves from
reacting? Scientology plays on human weakness, both in its followers
and in those it targets, and the situation in which a Scientologist
finds himself on the receiving end of violence is a lot different from
the sort of unprovoked violent assault that Scientologists like to
characterise themselves as victims of every time something like this
happens.
Bob was wrong to lash out, whatever he did, but there are degrees of
wrongness, and I'd claim that the people who provoked him to this were
equally wrong, if not more so - after all, it looks pretty much like
there's a campaign to take advantage of his apparent inability to
restrain himself from lashing out. More reason for Bob to take steps
to ensure that either he doesn't go out on point, or if he does, that
he is able to avoid getting so annoyed. The idea of doing some form of
non-violence training seems to me a good one.
Steve A
wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Nov 1999 08:32:46 GMT, ian...@yahoo.com (roxthefox) wrote:
>
>
> >
> >In the future, when you travel around the heart of Flag Org country,
> >take a body guard along and maybe two. Don't go there alone. You are
> >not safe there.
> >
>
>
> And that's exactly what the criminal cult of scientology wants you to
> worry about.
>
> Obviously it's not safe on Normandy Beach, but a beachhead will
> be established nonetheless.
Unfortunately, this analogy does not work: Normandy Beach did not have
police officers waiting to file assault charges. This *is* a war, but
it's more of a guerrilla war, without most of the "rules of war" that
apply in more conventional conflicts.
barb
Heh, "the guerilla goals."
--
barb
"No clears, no OT's, no research, no understanding, and trying to
conduct intellectual warfare with no ammunition. I was right,
Scientology just
doesn't get any good help anymore."
-retiredcap
Steve Zadarnowski
>I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
>While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
>the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
>no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
>inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
>in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
>the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
Personally, I don't think you hit the little weasel-fucker
hard enough. These Scientologists who want to fake and lie
in public ought to realize how dangerous provocation can be.
Crying wolf one too many times might prove fatal in other
situations.
S
roxthefox
Barwell) wrote:
>
>In article <1999110119...@sofuku.monster.org>,
>Anonymous <nob...@replay.com> wrote:
>>Bob Minton wrote in message <381da3e...@news.newsguy.com>...
>>
>>>I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>>>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>>>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>>>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>>>violation of people's civil and human rights.
>>
>>How about an apology to the person you hurt Minton?
>
Right, and while we are in the apology mode, how about if Co$
apologizes to me for depriving me of my son for a period in excess of
20 years. Yes, 20 years that I cannot ever get back. Twenty years of
hurt and sorrow, worry and that awful void. How about an apology for
that? What say you?
And BTW, if I get in somebodies face, I must be prepared for a punch
in the eye. Wouldn't any one with half a brain expect that this could
happen? That bozo wanted this to happen and we all know that. I am
only sorry that Bob obliged. I am sorry for Bob and for the effect
this may have. I am not glad to see any one hurt, even slightly but
how stupid do you have to be to provoke it?
>
>How about an apology from Scientology to all the people it has hurt,
>and to all the families of people who went PTSIII in Scientology and
>committed suicide? How about all teh people attacked and harrassed, such
>as Paulette Cooper?
ditto!
>
>Let Scientology apologize first.
If they could only acknowledge that they have hurt people and their
families, we would all feel a bit better. I won't hold my breath
though.
>
>And stop doing this sort of thing.
>
>Pope Charles
>SubGenius Pope of Houston
>Slack!
Dave Bird
<b...@minton.org> writes:
>I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
Yeah, well, don't let the fuckwits on ARS grind you down.
Try not to be provoked, but sometimes it would try the patience
of a saint.
In article<RmYeOL=JOgBVuQeYw...@4ax.com>XeMu1, a <a@a.a> writes:
>>Huh??? Gandhi Tech has nothing to do with purity, it has to do with
>>nonviolence. It's natural and easy to strike out at someone who is
>>harassing you, or maybe even physically intimidating you. It's much
>>harder to simply absorb the abuse, but that's what Gandhi Tech is
>
>It is still harder to push a pea with your nose, but that does not
>mean that it is wise in the face of violence.
>
>>about; absorbing the abuse.
>
>I think this is wrong. To an adversary without a conscience it
>merely emboldens them.
You do what is necessary and to your advantage: sometimes that is
refusing to be provoked and reacting non-violently. Not always.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In article<7vkjeu$1ing$1...@nntp1.u.washington.edu>XeMu1, Ceon Ramon
<ce...@u.washington.edu> writes:
>Since you're obviously going to continue to put yourself in the way of
>these direct encounters with members of the Sea Org and OSA, and since
>their goal is to get you to react in an inappropriate way, you might
>consider taking a class something in the nature of anger management,
Actually you might do worse than go to karate classes. Many of them
teach BOTH how to contain anger not striking recklessly, AND how to
strike effectively when you need to.
####_ @@@@@@@ (!)
-- /__/ \ DON'T GET SCREWED by R-S-A-Ci @@/__/ _ \ /
|__| ((((((((() @@@ |__|{_}|
\__\__/ \__\___/
/ \ Da...@xemu.demon.co.uk / \
+--+ : .---' :
' L :.
http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/censor/index.html
now listed on BAD THING=>http://www.teleport.com/~room101/badthing/bad.htm
Martin Hunt
>Is that why you don't go to many pickets?
Grady Grady Grady; how far you have fallen. What is it that has
fucked up your head so? Scientology, Bob, what? Maybe you're
having marital problems or something; whatever it is, don't take
it our on me. Your problems are yours to deal with.
>After all, Martin, I've never threatened to use my shotgun against
>any scientologists as I believe you have
Keep on kissing ass, Grady. Did you forget your daily Minton
ass-licking post? And don't forget your daily hack on peaceful
protests, ie, Gandhi tech.
Peter Reichelt
who can email me asap the complete august 99 george mag "Mary Bono"
article?
thanks a lot
peter reichelt
germany
see also my homepage http://dago.ch/peter_reichelt
everything about the scientologist Gottfried
Helnwein you need to know also about the German
tv docu "vanished in happy valley". about the scientology prison camps
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Peter Reichelt
who knows where photos are on the net :
tom cruise together with miscavige or other high ranking scientoligists
tom cruise in the "celebrity" scientology mag
thanks a lot
peter reichelt
barb
True, Dave. I used to get in lots of fights before I took karate. I
haven't been in one since!
Descarff
>
>pls help - very urgent
>who can email me asap the complete august 99 george mag "Mary Bono"
>article?
The original one or the one written by Garry Scarff?
Descarff
Garry
>>pls help - very urgent
>>who can email me asap the complete august 99 george mag "Mary Bono"
>>article?
>
>The original one or the one written by Garry Scarff?
LOL!! Still trying convince everyone you're insane?
Bern
<gar...@postoffice.pacbell.net> wrote in
<3825F3BE...@postoffice.pacbell.net>:
>This article was sent to me by an anonymous person (which seems to be the new
>trend on ARS: attack and hide):
So what? It's a fairly good article. Why do you consider this as an
"attack"?
>"Taking the Responsibility To Change"
>
>Start what? Start making my life work for me? Yes! If I don't like who I
>am, I will start accepting responsibility for changing, rather than continuing
>to blame my past, my friends, my so-called friends and anyone else "who made
>me what I am today."
>
>I spent decades blaming others who had hurt me and made me feel worthless. It
>was not my fault that people didn't understand me. After all, I wasn't late
>to football practice every day. The coach got angry at me for no reason. I
>only missed an occasional day of work when I had a bad hangover from the night
>before. My bosses were only concerned about making money. I did come home
>every night. So what if I missed dinner a couple of times because I stopped
>off for a drink with the guys; my wife just didn't understand that I needed
>that drink after a hard day's work.
>
>I decided it was time to re-evaluate my feelings of worthliness, and when I
>did I saw that they stemmed from the fact that I was clearly the problem. I
>had shifted all the blame and responsibility to the people in my life. This
>allowed me to have my temper tantrums, to believe the message people gave me
>about myself, to ignore that fact that I was a cog in the wheel of life. It
>even allowed me to avoid exploring the many assumptions I made about others,
>and above all, it allowed me to explore the resources I already had to help me
>deal with my problems.
>
>I realized that today I was not responsible for how people had acted towards
>me in the past and for the fact that they did not like me. I even realized
>that I had needed to blame them because it made me feel better. I even came
>to realize that one of the advantages to being married was that I could blame
>my wife for the problems in our marriage. It made her responsible for my
>happiness.
>
>I saw clearly that none of the blaming fixed what was wrong, so I finally
>decided I was ready to change my way of dealing with the past. I alone was
>responsible for fixing it.
>
>I learned that it is not necessary to confront all these people who hurt me,
>nor would I change my behavior until I changed my opinion of myself. People
>were wrong about me, but I had to give over my power to them. I allowed them
>to destroy my self-esteem and my faith in my own abilities. It was time for
>that long-awaited change.
>
>I could only feel loved, if I was lovable. Love breeds loves, anger instills
>more anger, hostility builds the burning embers of hostility. So, I needed to
>place all my energy into bringing love into my life and returning it to
>others. Only then could I be available for compassion, support and respect.
>
>I needed to replace anger and blame with forgiveness and affection. I have
>come to accept that my work has just begun. It happened the day I took
>responsibility for my life.
Garry
says...
>
>On Sun, 07 Nov 1999 13:48:46 -0800 Garry
>>This article was sent to me by an anonymous person (which seems to be the new
>>trend on ARS: attack and hide):
>
>So what? It's a fairly good article. Why do you consider this as an
>"attack"?
I was speaking more in a general sense, Bern. I agree with you it is a good
article but I think we need to call facts for what they are...I agree that their
is alot of lunacy on ARS where people have been inclined to blame Scientology
for evil thing under the sun, denying their own accountability.
However, at the same time, Scientology has manipulated and used such theories to
their advantage to sway people from putting the blame for evil acts where they
belong - many times square in their laps.
Martin Hunt
>It just seems a bit strange that a person who has actually threatened
>scientologists with a weapon is lecturing someone else on peaceful
>protest. If I am wrong about this, I will most certainly apologize.
Grady, I have an idea. Why don't you call my 83 year old mother
pretending to be a friend to dig up some more dirt on me?
You've become what you oppose with your snide little DA attacks.
To think I used to admire you, and now your name just makes me
sad.
Now, trot along after Bob, and don't forget to suck his cock.
Flatten a spot on top of that bald head of yours for his coffee
mug and samurai sword to rest on. :-)
Michael Reuss
>> Roxthefox wrote:
>>I don't think anyone would have been foolish enough to go to Normandy
>>Beach alone and unarmed.
> Except, of course, Gandhi. :-)
Well, the Allied D-Day invasion of Nazi occupied France in WW II is a
very poor analogy for what is happening in Clearwater and over the
Internet between critics and the Co$.
To be sure, if the cult ever does rise to political control on par
with the Nazis, complete with armies, occupied territory, and death
camps for suppressive, then I might be willing to fight them with
guns. But they haven't done that yet.
We are not engaged in a shooting war, but an ideological, memetic one.
If we fight this battle well, if we can persuade with reason and truth
and a bit of passion, hopefully no one will have to die, and indeed
everyone, including Scientologists, can come out of this "fight" as
winners.
Michael Reuss
Honorary Kid
Ted Mayett
>And it seems a bit strange to me that anyone but a Scientologist would
>dredge up that particular post, take that particular statement out of
>context, and use it to try and discredit Martin.
>
I don't have it archived, but Grady once posted along the lines of,
"have fun on the NG, get flamed, etc." This thing with Martin almost
seems to be that. then I get the impression of a speaker yawning at a
meeting to see how much support he has (supporters will usually yawn
also). I don't know what to make of it, Grady sure is posting some
absurd things lately, what with Normandy Beach and all.
But let us be patient, let's see where this is going, he may well be
setting up the cult for some more legal rituals. If he is going for
the cult again in some new direction, than all of us, and this NG, are
just tools to be used.
Peter Reichelt
still looking for photos cruise promoting scientology!
peter reichelt
germany
In article <806db2$pqq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
--
see my homepage http://dago.ch/peter_reichelt
everything about the scientologist Gottfried
Helnwein you need to know also about the German
tv docu. about the scientology prison camps
Peter Reichelt
"celebrity" together with miscavige or rinder or...?
Russell Shaw
Grady Ward wrote in message ...
>
>>dead when the cult comes calling, Grady. How much are you
>>paying them each month again? You're funding Scientology now,
>>helping to pay for all the sick shit they do.
>>
>
>Ha ha! The way I figure it is that if the cult complained that my
>litigation cost them $2.5 million in attorney's fees alone, they
>would have to get a *minimum* of $12,000 *a month* from me
>for the rest of my life in order to *break even.*
>
>But you already knew that, right, Martin?
>
>You only say you believe in Gandhi tech now since you
>found out that threatening scientologists with your shotgun
>got you slapped down real quick. But unlike you I haven't
>been intimidated into tranferring your attack on other critics
>like Bob Minton who is making a huge difference.
I totally agree. Bob is making such a difference, that if we can just get a
few *more* critics like Minton - the entire "critic problem" will take care
of itself.
>
>Grady Ward gr...@gradyward.com http://www.gradyward.com/
>voice (707) 826-7712 fax (413) 832-2600
>PGP! 7E0E EF0E 613D CEB8 6E8D 9D57 069F 8BC0 8C88 EB82
>MESSAGES NOT CRYPTOGRAPHICALLY SIGNED MAY NOT BE AUTHENTIC
Martin Hunt
>I don't believe it is "D/A" to point out your previous inconsistency
>on the issue of violence when you pretend to lecture me on
>the efficacy of Gandhi tech. Was the following post yours?
Well, you've consciously joined a select group of people to try
this DA attack on me. All the others were Scientologists.
>Do you now renounce violence?
I never advocated it. What I said was that I was willing to
defend myself against attacks by facist assholes, which, by
the way, is legal. Even Gandi wouldn't be so idealistic as to
fail to see that you must defend yourself sometimes:
"I do believe that, where there is only a choice between
cowardice and violence, I would advise violence... I would
rather have India resort to arms in order to defend her honour
than that she should, in a cowardly manner, become or remain
a helpless witness to her own dishonour." - Mohandas K Gandhi.
There's a world of difference between keeping the peace during
a demonstration and letting the gestapo kick in my door. Some
of us aren't so ready and willing to roll over and play
dead when the cult comes calling, Grady. How much are you
paying them each month again? You're funding Scientology now,
helping to pay for all the sick shit they do.
>Or do you lecture me on "Gandhi tech" because you
>think you are getting in a dig at Bob Minton this way?
I'm not interested in "digging" at Bob Minton. If I call him
out when he does things that deserve to be called out, so be
it. Do you condone his latest violence on the streets of
Clearwater? He apologized, while you sycophantically defended
your hero de jour on ars from all the "attacks" the poor man
receives from critics. Why is that, Grady? Are the critics
just out to lunch on this one? They're all wrong and you're
right. Right.
Now, back to you. You gave a spirited defence of Bob's rights
to free speech, but you seem to have a problem with my free
speech. Why is that, Grady? You're a hypocrite.
>From: av...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Martin G. V. Hunt)
>Subject: Cult Lawlessness and Dennis
>Message-ID: <D42o7...@freenet.carleton.ca>
>Sender: av...@freenet.carleton.ca (Martin G. V. Hunt)
>Reply-To: av...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Martin G. V. Hunt)
>Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
>Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 02:57:21 GMT
>Lines: 26
>
>I'm so angry at the cult, I could kill. ;-(
>
>What kind of country is America? One where any cult with a bit of
>cash can break into someone's house with a dozen henchmen and
>steal private and personal computer files?
>
>Hard drives are as personal as diaries; indeed, many people keep their
>diary on their hard drive. Does this mean the cult can knock down
>our doors whenever they want, and read through our diaries just in
>case they contain "copyrighted trade secret materials"?
>
>What a load of bullshit; the cult does not have any copyrights or
>trade secrets. None. RTC does not hold anything other than
>Miscavige's cock...they have no rights at all; they certainly do not
>have the right to enter people's homes, and steal whatever they
>want.
>
>Do you hear me, OSA? When you come for me, you can meet my fucking
>shotgun; I intend to shoot first, and ask questions later. ;-(
>I am not going off to OSA's version of Auschwitz peacefully; I
>fully intend to kill them when they come for me. Fuck them.
>
>--
>Cogito, ergo sum. Martin Hunt, av...@freenet.carleton.ca &
>uo...@freenet.victoria.bc.ca & uu...@fim.uni-erlangen.de