Recalls Occurring; Seeking More Info
Lee Knoper
Does anyone here have any information concerning the current involuntary recalls
of former military personnel?
In a 28 Mar 99 post to <alt.survival>, one individual advised that he is being
involuntarily recalled for placement in the Army Reserve, despite having been
out of the Army for over two years. [1]
Apparently the referenced action is being taken because of the Army's ongoing
manning problems. I'm aware of the continuing liability for recall after
separation, but among some of my correspondents the news that this "back door
draft" is actually occurring was understandably greeted with surprise and
concern.
I messaged the poster with some followup questions. He confirmed that he has
been notified by telephone and is awaiting receipt of orders. His caller ID
unit displayed a "US Govt" telephone number, so this development is believed to
be legitimate. He advised that he was a commissioned officer, was =not= in a
critical career field, and that his new assignment will be "branch immaterial."
This recall is apparently an effort to exhume warm bodies to fill empty slots,
and is presently targeted at separated personnel for whom less than eight years
have elapsed since they went on active duty.
I'm trying to discover more about this effort - for example, who made the
decision, how high in the CoC the stimulus originated, whether it is widespread
or geographically limited, and what additional selection criteria or recall
patterns might exist. I called the local Army recruiting command, but they had
no information on it. Has anyone seen anything on this in Army Times, maybe?
Any helpful information or other questions to ask will be much appreciated. At
this juncture I'll even entertain speculation.
Lee_K
[1] See the 28 Mar 99 post to <alt.survival> on Subject: Re: Military
Statistics, Message-ID: <19990328174452...@ng-fp1.aol.com>.
Blaster6
pot a little. In order to be recalled (as I understand it), there must be a
declared national emergency. Kosovo may be many things, but I wouldn't call
it a national emergency. If you want, call the DA PAO, they should know the
answers to that.
B6
Lee Knoper wrote in message <37040b7f...@news.concentric.net>...
Lee Knoper
wrote:
> In order to be recalled (as I understand it), there must be a
> declared national emergency. Kosovo may be many things, but I
> wouldn't call it a national emergency. [...]
Technically, it is. See Executive Order 13088 (10 Jun 98). And actually, the
basis need not necessarily be Kosovo. A quick search through the EOs at the
White House Web site identifies several other "national emergencies" in progress
that could be used to justify (rationalize) a recall. This contention assumes
that an EO - and not some act of Congress - declaring a national emergency
satisfies the requisite criteria, though. I haven't yet had a chance to check
out 50 USC 1601 (the National Emergencies Act).
Just to clarify, my interest is in the truth of the matter. To this end I have
begun to work my way down a task list. If the story is true, then this
development is significant news. If the story is false, then it needs to be
squelched ASAP.
Lee_K
Robert J. Christman
Don't know about whether an E.O. qualifies but remember also
that the original post stated that the person being
"recalled" was a commissioned officer. Depending on his
actual status, a recall to active duty may not require a
"national emergency". Commissioned officers work under
different rules than retired (or inactive reserve) enlisted.
--
Bob C. NRA Endowment USN (Ret)
Wrailer
military personnel. They are military, and so a call-up (different from a
"recall") is not unusual, nor does it require any kind of emergency.
Lee Knoper
>If a person is a reservist (active or inactive) they are not "former"
>military personnel. They are military, and so a call-up (different from a
>"recall") is not unusual, nor does it require any kind of emergency.
Thanks - the distinction is noted. In retrospect my use of the word "former"
was inappropriate. The individual in question is in the inactive reserve. He
was former regular Army and separated in Jan 97. He was recently notified
that he will be involuntarily placed in the Army Reserve. My apologies for
not making clear his actual status.
Defective wording of the mission statement notwithstanding, my intent was to
discover if anyone else is being involuntarily assigned or returned to some
kind of in-uniform military service. (Notice that I'm dutifully avoiding use
of the words "recall," "inactive," "reserve" and "draft" here, as well as the
suppositions and associated colorations.)
Incidentally, the number he was called from when he received telephone
notification tracks back to a "DMATS St Louis." (I may have the acronym wrong
but that's the after-hours recording I got when I called it myself.)
Lee_K
Edward Combs Jr.
military does).
.........................
Lee Knoper <baj...@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:370577ab...@news.concentric.net...
Charles Revie
there is no way for him to be recalled for either Reserve or Active Duty. If he has
affiliation then that is a different story.
Charlie
James Marriott
>
> Don't think so. If this fellow has no Reserve or National Guard affiliation then
> there is no way for him to be recalled for either Reserve or Active Duty. If he has
> affiliation then that is a different story.
>
> Charlie
>
>
on the inactive reserve list for the rest of my life. It also said I
would receive free medical care for the rest of my life. As long as the
government holds up it's end I'll stick to mine.
Big Jim
> >
> Best I can remember from the contract(prior to 1986) it said I would be
> on the inactive reserve list for the rest of my life. It also said I
> would receive free medical care for the rest of my life. As long as the
> government holds up it's end I'll stick to mine.
The ONLY way for an enlisted person to be subject to military recall for
the rest of his/her life is to be receiving Military Retired Pay.
May not be the same for officer types.
--
* Constable Jim Fahy P.O.Box 192 Riverside, CT 06878 *
(Retired Lt, Greenwich PD - Retired SFC, USAR)
---------------------------------------------------
James Marriott
obligated where some of the reserve types. And yes an officers
commission is for life. The inactive reserves are a database in
washington, just in case. Some WWII people will remember who was
defending berlin, old men and boys. That would be us :)))
I-Man
Robert J. Christman
James Marriott wrote:
Inactive reserve time only applies for a set time. For a single enlistment
type guy, it is a total service of six years. For someone who did more than
six years active, but did not complete a career to retirement, he is done. For
retirees, it is any time between the 20 and 30 year mark. Total service of 30
years (combined active and reserve) results in a transfer to the retired list.
These personnel are still subject to recall as long as they are part of the
inactive reserve. After a retiree actually becomes "retired", i.e.: 30 years
total service, he is technically still subject to recall in a case of declared
war, or national emergency. I don't know what the rules on a "national
emergency" actually are, but a declared war requires an act of Congress.
Roger L. Perkins
believe. There is a big difference between inactive reserve and retired lists. You
should learn the differences.
Roger
AIRBORNE!
James Marriott wrote:
> Charles Revie wrote:
> >
> > Don't think so. If this fellow has no Reserve or National Guard affiliation then
> > there is no way for him to be recalled for either Reserve or Active Duty. If he has
> > affiliation then that is a different story.
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> >
Roger L. Perkins
retired guy/gal I know understands the difference between reserves and
retired. Inactive reserves are people finishing out their 6 year commitment
and the "list" is kept at ARPERCEN in St. Louis.
Wannabe.
Roger
AIRBORNE!
James Marriott wrote:
> Big Jim wrote:
> >
> > James Marriott wrote:
> > > >
> > > Best I can remember from the contract(prior to 1986) it said I would be
> > > on the inactive reserve list for the rest of my life. It also said I
> > > would receive free medical care for the rest of my life. As long as the
> > > government holds up it's end I'll stick to mine.
> >
Charles Revie
Big Jim wrote:
> James Marriott wrote:
> > >
> > Best I can remember from the contract(prior to 1986) it said I would be
> > on the inactive reserve list for the rest of my life. It also said I
> > would receive free medical care for the rest of my life. As long as the
> > government holds up it's end I'll stick to mine.
>
> The ONLY way for an enlisted person to be subject to military recall for
> the rest of his/her life is to be receiving Military Retired Pay.
> May not be the same for officer types.
Oh, if you are receiving Military Retainer Pay (the real name for retired
pay), you can rest assured that your continued acceptance of the pay check
constitutes your continued agreement for involuntary recall--that is why it
is call "Retainer Pay." If the Balkans explode in to global madness, all of
us old farts are subject to recall. Virtually all such recalls would put
those recalled into admin type positions to free up the young and healthy for
forward disposition. Doesn't matter whether you were officer, warrant, or
enlisted. Those most recently retired would normally be the first recalled;
those with critical skills whould also be first recalled.
Charlie Revie
USAR Retired (gray area - pending age 60)
James Marriott
>
> Only if you are retired (are you?) and then you are subject to recall until age 62, I
> believe. There is a big difference between inactive reserve and retired lists. You
> should learn the differences.
>
> AIRBORNE!
>
> James Marriott wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Don't think so. If this fellow has no Reserve or National Guard affiliation then
> > > there is no way for him to be recalled for either Reserve or Active Duty. If he has
> > > affiliation then that is a different story.
> > >
> > > Charlie
> > >
> > >
> > on the inactive reserve list for the rest of my life. It also said I
> > would receive free medical care for the rest of my life. As long as the
> > government holds up it's end I'll stick to mine.
I will admit I was wrong, inactive reserves only applies to retired
veterans. It was my mistake. But that is what learning is about. Boy I
should tell you about some of the mistakes I made when I was operating
Naval Nuclear Power Plants :))) no sense boreing ya'll.
Lee Knoper
I'm gratified to see the various reply posts, and particularly the absence of
"instructional incendiaries" in this thread. Moreover, there seems to be a
good representation of the various military branches. Collective wisdom and
recollection will doubtless prove useful as this issue evolves.
First off, an update. The individual in question advises that he has in fact
received the hardcopy orders from AR-PERSCOM in St Louis. He is definitely
being reassigned from the inactive reserve to the active reserve, per AR
140-10. The orders reflect that this move is voluntary, but the subject is
adamant that he did not volunteer for this and is not aware of consenting to
anything in the past that might ultimately have had this consequence (other
than some implied term or condition in his enlistment contract, of course).
Quite understandably, some skepticism has been expressed. Skepticism is
healthy. I readily admit that I don't know this individual personally, nor
have I seen his orders. All I have is what he has mentioned to me in our
followup communications; his messages are well written and evidence attention
to detail. In light of verifiable news stories concerning the Army's manning
shortfall, the assertion is credible on its face, anyway. He has his personal
reasons for maintaining a low profile with respect to the newsgroups. For
now, at least, I'll extend to him the benefit of the doubt.
Comments were made about the enlistment contract. In off-list discussion, two
issues have emerged: 1) possibly more than one version of contract may exist
(for either officers or enlisted), and 2) government performance (compliance)
with the contract is a variable.
On the first point, either the contract has changed over the years (possibly
to suit changing economic and political conditions), or else recruiters might
be able to select from more than one boilerplate. For example, one retiree
(20 years active duty, regular AF) was quite clear that his orders indicated
he had a ten year obligation in the inactive reserve (now expired) following
separation, whereas others have stated differently.
On the second point, there is a fairly universal, jaundiced understanding
among veterans of how the other party to the contract fulfills its
obligations. Thanks to the winds of politics, today's promises often become
tomorrow's eulogies. Moreover, being "volunteered" is not unusual, in any
branch of the service.
A complicating factor is the possible influence of current political forces on
the upper echelons of the military. Given the recent history of politics in
this nation, it would not be completely implausible for the government to
"push the envelope" in a desperate attempt to shore up military manning.
There is certainly ample precedent with other issues.
Failing adequate recruiting and retention, and in the absence of a draft or
any further liberalizing of entrance requirements, the only remaining option
is to pull the older fish back in - perhaps more aggressively with those
having critical specialties.
In any event, I'm going to send some specific questions to Sen McCain later
this week. (I already have a list of questions assembled, but feel free to
post or e-mail me if you have questions of your own that feel should be
submitted.) My experience has been that the turnaround will likely be at
least a month. I'll lurk here briefly, pending backblast as the articles in
this thread continue to propagate on the e-frontier, but essentially this post
is intended as closure for now. If I find out anything significant, I'll make
a followup post under Subject: "Recalls" [Followup].
Many thanks to all who took the time to post - I appreciate your comraderie
and insights.
Lee_K
Roger L. Perkins
years active. Retired folks are on the Retired List, which is different. Inactive Reserves
still have a commitment to the remainder of their 6 years. Retired folks are the last to be
called and only if there is a real, real bad problem. Like we are out of draft age kids.
Roger L. Perkins
involuntary and he still has a commitment, he is out of luck until his time is up.
Roger
AIRBORNE!
silver...@my-dejanews.com
Kosovo after we have resolved the current minor difficulty.
Probably be some activations for someplace out of this. We are getting spread
pretty thin
MSG, USAR (ret)
In article <37082D...@worldnet.att.net>,
James Marriott <j.l.ma...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Big Jim wrote:
> >
> > James Marriott wrote:
> > > >
> > > Best I can remember from the contract(prior to 1986) it said I would be
> > > on the inactive reserve list for the rest of my life. It also said I
> > > would receive free medical care for the rest of my life. As long as the
> > > government holds up it's end I'll stick to mine.
> >
> > The ONLY way for an enlisted person to be subject to military recall for
> > the rest of his/her life is to be receiving Military Retired Pay.
> > May not be the same for officer types.
> >
> > --
> >
> > * Constable Jim Fahy P.O.Box 192 Riverside, CT 06878 *
> > (Retired Lt, Greenwich PD - Retired SFC, USAR)
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> It is called the inactive reserve. The only ones I knew of who weren't
> obligated where some of the reserve types. And yes an officers
> commission is for life. The inactive reserves are a database in
> washington, just in case. Some WWII people will remember who was
> defending berlin, old men and boys. That would be us :)))
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Tim S. Harbison
The following definition is from the Marine Forces Reserve website
http://www.marforres.usmc.mil/domino/html/MFR.NSF/8e7e7562a41c9a84862565ec00
614f8c/343da86801bf67b7862565ec0061724f?OpenDocument
Standby Reserve
The Standby Reserve consists of Marines not in the Ready or Retired Reserve.
Marines in this category are subject to recall to active duty only in time
of war or national emergency declared by Congress. Marines can be assigned
to the Standby Reserve for a variety of reasons. Those having completed
their initial Military Service Obligation (MSO) may request assignment.
Those who fail to maintain active participation in the Marine Corps Reserve,
experience a temporary physical disability or fail to obtain a physical
examination as required, can be assigned. It is composed of Marines on the
Active Status List (ASL) or Inactive Status List (ISL).
The ASL is partially composed of reservists who have not completed their
statutory MSO. It also includes reservists who have fulfilled their
statutory MSO and are temporarily assigned, for hardship or other reasons.
Marines in the ASL: may not be assigned a mobilization position; may
participate in training activities without pay and may earn retirement
credit points; may be eligible for associate and appropriate duty orders;
cannot be a member of a MTU; are not required to attend inactive duty or
active duty for training; and will be considered for promotion to the grade
of colonel and below.
The ISL is composed of reservists who have completed their statutory MSO,
are not required by law or regulation to remain members of an active status
program, and who meet one or a combination of the following: desire to
retain Reserve affiliation in a nonparticipating status, have mobilization
potential in skills which may be of future use to the Marine Corps, have at
least 20 years qualifying Federal service and a disability rated at less
than 30 percent, and choose ISL vice separation for that disability, or are
transferred to such status as a result of a board action. Marines in the ISL
may: not be assigned to a mobilization position; can not participate in
Reserve training or earn retirement points; and are not eligible for pay or
promotion. Service in the ISL may not be counted in computation of years of
service for retirement purposes.
----------------------
This is different from "Inactive Reserve" as defined on the same web page.
Now... If I'm interpreting this correctly, the only "real" requirement to be
considered part of the Standby Reserve is "have mobilization potential in
skills which may be of future use to the Marine Corps". At least that's how
I would interpret it based on "who meet one or a combination of the
following".
Of course it doesn't sound like this applies to the question originally
raised, but it may help clarify the classifications and the conditions under
which someone may be recalled and in what capacity. I actually requested to
be placed in this status a few years ago (god help me) and will probably
upgrade to Inactive Reserve soon. If the Y2K sh!t hits the fan, I'd rather
be carrying an M-60 thanks very much.
Tim
--
Ignorance is correctable, stupidity is for life.
remove the fnord to e-mail me
Roger L. Perkins
Kuwait and they coordinate with Serbia and N. Korea. We will be SOL.
Roger
AIRBORNE!
Robert J. Christman
>
> No. Inactive Reserves are those guys finishing out their 6 year hitch after doing 4 (I think)
> years active. Retired folks are on the Retired List, which is different. Inactive Reserves
> still have a commitment to the remainder of their 6 years. Retired folks are the last to be
> called and only if there is a real, real bad problem. Like we are out of draft age kids.
>
> Roger
> AIRBORNE!
>
Not totally true. Those folks (finishing their term) are in the
inactive reserve. However,"early" retirees, under 30 total service are
also in the inactive reserve (the Navy calls it "Fleet Reserve", but
legally it is the same). A full retirement doesn't come until you amass
a total of 30 years combined service, then you get transferred to the
retired list (different rules - but can technically still be recalled).
Officers work under different rules. As long as they haven't resigned
their commission they can be recalled to (I believe) age 65. Flag ranks
can ALWAYS be recalled if so desired.
Roger L. Perkins
retire list with 21 years in. Maybe it's a Navy thing? But I am subject to recall up to 62 (I
think) and am on a list for shortage CMFs. Now nice.
Roger
AIRBORNE!
Bill Kambic
zone" we are actually part of the IRR, one of its many classes. We do not actually "retire" until age
60, when we are moved to the "retired list." This is, I believe, a different practice from Army and
Air Force.
I have also been informed that this is why my retired pay will be calculated on the pay scale in
effect at the time I turn 60, not the scale that was in effect on the day I "retired." I have been
informed by a couple of Army/Air Force types that their pay will be calculated using the pay scale
that was in effect at the time of their retirement.
Is the above correct? I really am not sure. Where is damn BUPERS Manual when you really need it?<g>
Bill Kambic, Bright Star Farm, Kingston, TN
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/1816
Robert J. Christman
>
> Hmmm... the Army doesn't have a "fleet reserve" and, to the best of my knowledge, I am on the
> retire list with 21 years in. Maybe it's a Navy thing? But I am subject to recall up to 62 (I
> think) and am on a list for shortage CMFs. Now nice.
>
> Roger
> AIRBORNE!
>
Well, technically, it's a DOD "thing". Set by Congress, you know, the
guys that write the laws (and ignore them when they feel the urge). The
Army may call it something different, but there is a major difference in
the recall rules for enlisted if you are under 30 total service or over
30. Officers, as mentioned, fall under a completely different set of
law. My ID card said "Retired" when I first got it, but I also received
a set of "transfer orders" to the retired list when I hit 30 total
service. My final DD214 stated released from active duty for "transfer
to the Fleet Reserve".
Roger L. Perkins
anything like that. I also get cost of living increases yearly, just like
everyone else. Seems to me I should have joined the Navy. When do you
actually start getting the money? Mind started the day I retired.
Roger
AIRBORNE!
Bill Kambic wrote in message <370E5472...@vic.com>...
Robert J. Christman
You missed a key point, the poster was a careerist in the Reserves,
different retirement plan (and it is based on a bit lower pay). Navy
retirement for active duty personnel is the same as the Army (set by law
from Congress). In some ways the reserve retirement (we are talking
full time reserves here, not inactive reserves from 20 to 30 year active
careers) is better than the active duty setup, in others it is a lot
worse. I draw 55% (more than 20 years active) of my base pay with
annual adjustments for COL (ha).
Bill Kambic
> You missed a key point, the poster was a careerist in the Reserves,
> different retirement plan (and it is based on a bit lower pay). Navy
> retirement for active duty personnel is the same as the Army (set by law
> from Congress). In some ways the reserve retirement (we are talking
> full time reserves here, not inactive reserves from 20 to 30 year active
> careers) is better than the active duty setup, in others it is a lot
> worse. I draw 55% (more than 20 years active) of my base pay with
> annual adjustments for COL (ha).
Thank you, Bob. I did not make that distinction and should have.
vo...@my-dejanews.com
Military retirees are subject to recall until the following ages (based on
rank):
Enlisted - age 62
Commissioned officers - age 65
Warrant officers - 68
In article <3709d461...@news.concentric.net>,
D. W. "Tex" Williams
Analyst
"First to Know, Last to Care!"
Robert J. Christman
>
> Just a quick note,
>
> Military retirees are subject to recall until the following ages (based on
> rank):
>
> Enlisted - age 62
> Commissioned officers - age 65
> Warrant officers - 68
>
>
The original question was more of "under what circumstances" are these
people subject to recall. For enlisted there are two categories of
"retired", those under 30 years total federal service and those over 30
years. Legally, those under 30 are in the inactive reserve and may be
recalled by the secretary of the service in question, basically anytime
the service wants them. Over 30 is on the retired list, and may be
recalled in time of war or "national emergency". The second is the area
of question. War requires an act of Congress, noone seems to be clear
on the legality of a "national emergency" declared by executive fiat.
Officers who retain their commission are subject to recall until age 65,
flag officers (admirals and generals) are subject to unlimited recall.
Warrants, under current law, are commissioned officers, it is quite
possible that the same law that established their status gave them a
different cutoff age, I haven't ever checked it out. Additionally,
enlisted who do one term of active service (i.e.: 2 to 4 years depending
on their contract) also have an inactive reserve commitment on the end
of their active service. When I joined the total service contract was
for six years, I have heard (word of mouth only) that the new
enlistments are for a total service of eight but have not confirmed
that. Again, inactive reserve forces can be called to duty by the
various secretaries at will.
Roger L. Perkins
catagory of service where you have to have a committment, a service
contract. Perhaps it's different for the Reserves, but I don't think so.
Recalling those on the retired list is another thing entirely.
Roger
AIRBORNE!
Robert J. Christman <rchr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:37108C90...@ix.netcom.com...
silver...@my-dejanews.com
committment-but that may be due to her MOS schooling, which was lengthy.
I think the committment is based on MOS and not a blanket thing.
MSG USAR (ret)
In article <37108C90...@ix.netcom.com>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Big Jim
>
In some ways the reserve retirement (we are talking
> > full time reserves here, not inactive reserves from 20 to 30 year active
> > careers) is better than the active duty setup, in others it is a lot
> > worse.
I do not see how Reserve retirement can be better that active duty
retirement.
For active duty you get two & a half percent per year (20 years = 50% of
active
duty pay up to a maximum of 75% for 30 years.)
A reservist get one point for every active duty day service and one
point
for every four hours of drill time (one weekend = 4 points.) You can
also
get point for other things including the two week "summer camp" but
there is a maximum number of points (75?) you can earn per years. Then
any time after 20 good years (active & reserve) the reservist can enter
the "grey area" of not participating but not drawing retired pay. Then
at the magic age of 60 years, the reservist start collecting based
on the number of points, years of service, and rank.
Only a reservist on active duty or AGR can get the same retirement
as regular active duty personnel.
Robert J. Christman
>
> Again, no. If you "retire" you are out. Not in the IRR. The IRR is a
> catagory of service where you have to have a committment, a service
> contract. Perhaps it's different for the Reserves, but I don't think so.
> Recalling those on the retired list is another thing entirely.
>
> Roger
> AIRBORNE!
>
Roger, first define "retire". If you "retire" with less than thirty
years total federal service (and yes, the ID card I was issued said
"retired", but my separation from active duty orders didn't) you aren't
really retired, you are transferred to the inactive reserve until you
complete thirty years total service. As for being "out", you had better
go read the actual laws passed by Congress, as long as you are drawing a
check (not counting disability retirement - different animal) you are
still, to some measure "in". For one thing, you remain subject to the
UCMJ (that is explicitly stated in the law). For another, depending on
age, you ARE subject to recall, even after transfer to the retired list.
Robert J. Christman
I may well be out of date on the law on this, it has changed fairly
frequently, and since I wasn't Reserve, I haven't tracked it. I used to
get a bunch of Reservists assigned to my shop during their two week tour
and I know that at that time, while the percentage was worse, and the
total service and start of drawing pay were worse, the "salary" used to
compute retirement pay was better as the active duty retirement is based
on your "base" pay at retirement, excluding all things such as Commuted
Rations/Rations in Kind/Basic Allowance for Quarters/any specialty
pays/etc.
Roger L. Perkins
than out-processing and separation as of X date. My certificate says
Retired from the United States Army. Nothing about IRR or any other
afiliatin beyond that a retiree gets. I am on a short recall list for my
CMF but that was voluntary. The 30 year mark is not a committment. It is a
choice you and I could have made. We didn't and that's it unless we request
otherwise.
Roger
AIRBORNE and retired since 91.
Robert J. Christman <rchr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:371684B7...@ix.netcom.com...
Charles Revie
Percentage = total number of points divided by 360 multiplied by 2.5
The percentage represents the portion of base pay that applied for the
years of service at which the reservist retired.
The limit of 75 points per year applies only to inactive duty points
(drills, correspondence courses, gratuity points, etc).
For active duty including annual training (two weeks or longer) and
active duty for any other reason the limit is 1 point per day of active
duty.
Thus the slight advantage that accrues to a reservist comes from the
percentage formula that assumes a 360 day year. For a full year of 365
days a reservist will actually receive a percentage computation of
365/360*2.5 or 2.54 percent. But a reservist who completes 20 years on
extended active duty (not AGR) will receive 2.5% times 20 years because
he/she has taken a service retirement (20 years active duty) compared to
an age retirement at age 60.
In my case I had two years enlisted (active duty), 14 years commissioned
(active duty), and 14 years commissioned (TPU and IRR) which accrued
6800 points...so my percentage will be 6800/360*2.5 or 47.3%. Take that
percentage of what the pay tables show for my rank at 30 years service
and that is my retirement pay. Note that only 10 of my 14 reserve years
were "good years" in that I did not make the minimum of 50 points for
each of those years.
Another "bennie" that accrues to me as a retired gray area (can't earn
points, can't draw retirement pay before age 60) reservist is that I am
covered for SGLI for free (I can't draw my military salary so they can
not withhold what I don't get) and if I die in the gray area my wife
will receive both the SGLI benefit and the full survivor's benefit.
Other than the insurance coverage, my only other "bennies" are unlimited
PX and 12 commissary purchase days per year.
So I don't say reserve retirement is "better" but I would say it is
"equivalent." A definite plus is the free SGLI and SBP coverage should
I die that an active duty retiree does not receive unless he pays for it
(again they can not withhold what I am not paid and can not earn).
When I reach age 60, I turn in my red ID card for a blue ID card and I
become just another military retiree.
Charlie
Robert J. Christman
> > Bob C. NRA Endowment USN (Ret)
I repeat, go read the US Code (i.e.: the law) that defines
"military retirement". I don't really care what your pretty
piece of paper from the Army says, the law is what is going
to take precedence. It states that you do not "retire"
until 30 years total service. If you are drawing a
"retirement" check and aren't over the 30 year mark you ARE
in the inactive reserve and subject to recall. After that
point you are retired, but you are still subject, under
different rules, to recall to age 62 or 65 depending on your
situation as far as enlisted/warrant/commission. My last
set of orders (and my DD214) both clearly state that I was
being released from active duty after 22 years of service
for immediate entry into the inactive (or as the Navy terms
it, "Fleet") reserve. Upon reaching 30 total I received a
nice certificate from the Bureau of Personnel transferring
me to the "retired list". A co-worker who is Army retired
did NOT receive the nice pretty "retired list" certificate,
but was still subject to the exact same laws. He was well
aware of it as well, possibly being the CSM for his last
command had something to do with that.
Charles Revie
Charlie
lazm
if you retire before 30 years. That's one of the reasons that I and
someone else on our staff decided to stick around instead of retiring.
We feel we're about due for a nasty one and would rather be on active
duty when it happens than "retired" having a good time only to be
recalled.
Tom Brizendine
other words, if a national crisis came up I was subject to recall. My
assignment was to the 10th Special Forces Group at Bragg, After moving to
Alabama my assignment was changed to the Rangers at Benning.
Tom Brizendine
A/75th Rangers
<
<
Robert J. Christman wrote in message <371684B7...@ix.netcom.com>...
>"Roger L. Perkins" wrote:
>>
>> Again, no. If you "retire" you are out. Not in the IRR. The IRR is a
>> catagory of service where you have to have a committment, a service
>> contract. Perhaps it's different for the Reserves, but I don't think so.
>> Recalling those on the retired list is another thing entirely.
>>
>> Roger
>> AIRBORNE!
>>
>
>Roger, first define "retire". If you "retire" with less than thirty
>years total federal service (and yes, the ID card I was issued said
>"retired", but my separation from active duty orders didn't) you aren't
>really retired, you are transferred to the inactive reserve until you
>complete thirty years total service. As for being "out", you had better
>go read the actual laws passed by Congress, as long as you are drawing a
>check (not counting disability retirement - different animal) you are
>still, to some measure "in". For one thing, you remain subject to the
>UCMJ (that is explicitly stated in the law). For another, depending on
>age, you ARE subject to recall, even after transfer to the retired list.
>
>
>
Charles Revie
Reserves into the gray area, my hip pocket orders were for Fort Knox.
That is not too bad until you realize my basic branch is Field Artillery
and I live within 50 miles of Fort Bliss, TX. My duty assignment was
"instructor." Have served both in ADA and FA units but never in an
Armored unit. All my divisional assignments were to Infantry Divisons.
Three years later, when the wall came down, my orders were cancelled and
the originals were valid for five years.
A close friend of mine was a CSM, Green Beret, Snake Eater and all
that. His hip pocket orders were for Ft Huachuca. He scribbled "not
acceptable" on them in red crayon and sent them back.
Charlie
Roger L. Perkins
to Ft. Carson about 10 years ago. Better check those order's out, "Ranger".
Roger
AIRBORNE!
Tom Brizendine <tdb...@gulftel.com> wrote in message
news:92445901...@news.remarQ.com...
lazm
less than 30 years combined service, you're in the IRR. Doesn't matter what
they didn't tell you. Doesn't matter what your paperwork said, or didn't
say.
Marine Corps calls it Fleet Marine Corps Reserve. The Army call it the
retired reserve list. Like I said another time, Christman had the pure
straight scoop.
Found an interesting paragraph in the MCO about separation and retirement:
2. In time of peace, a member of the FMCR may be required to perform not
more than 2 months active duty training in each 4-year period.
Since all this is governed by US Code, I just gotta ask, are you ready for a
PFT/PRT?
Semper Fi,
Top Bart
Roger L. Perkins wrote in message <371ab...@news.sisna.com>...
Roger L. Perkins
what our regs say. But unless they show me in writing, I am going with what my
orders say. I wonder is it's a service specific thing? Either way, I'm on a
short list because of my specialty anyway sooo...
Thanks for the poop.
Roger
AIRBORNE!
lazm
probably give you updated orders that might not even have anything to do
with your specialty. I'm finishing up a tour of Inspector- Instructor duty
and have heard that they called up a few retirees here during the Persian
Excursion to inprocess people. This is my second tour or I&I and the first
was during said excursion. We didn't have any retiree recalls where I was
then. A lot of retiree recalls may depend on the units in the area. If
you're close to where a lot of reserves drill that may be needed due to
their specialty, you may stand a better chance of being recalled.
We did 4 yesterday and we're doing 7 tomorrow so I just gotta ask Roger, is
it even possible to have a heart attack doing the Army PRT? :)
Semper Fi
Top Bart
Roger L. Perkins wrote in message <371DF0B9...@cc.usu.edu>...
Roger L. Perkins
Roger
AIRBORNE!
lazm <l...@nr.infi.net> wrote in message news:7flsq2$2bf$1...@nw003t.infi.net...
((SNIP)) so I just gotta ask Roger, is it even possible to have a heart