[DS9] Lynch's Spoiler Review: "The Search, Part I"
Timothy W. Lynch
season premiere, "The Search, Part I". If you haven't seen the show and
don't want information about it, don't read any further.
In brief: well, not bad, but lots of causes for concern about DS9's
much-touted new direction.
First, a change from the old review style. I had piles of people last year
asking me to please include some sort of summary to help them remember which
episode I was even talking about. Far be it from me to refuse such
stout-hearted pleas :-), so from now on I'll include a one or two sentence
blurb before going on to the review proper. So, onwards...
------
Brief Summary:
Sisko and the DS9 crew take a new ship, the Defiant, into the Gamma Quadrant
to search for the Founders, legendary leaders of the Dominion.
------
On the surface, there's a fair bit to like about part one of "The Search".
Much of the dialogue was snappy, the looming threat of the Dominion was very
real, and there was enough action to satisfy most fans. Some of my students
have been singing the praises of the show to me all week, using such
justifications as "didja seen the GUNS on the Defiant?" and "what could be
better than Odo's race?". As a tool to draw people in, then, "The Search" is
working beautifully.
Digging deeper, though, I'm worried -- and I wonder if DS9 has altered itself
to its own detriment over the season break.
While I'll admit that my main fondness in DS9 stories is "political" stories
such as "Duet" and the opening trilogy from last season, some of DS9's core
strengths are in its character interactions. In particular, DS9 has broken
with Trek tradition (at least current Trek tradition) in dealing with
characters who (a) don't have to like each other, and (b) can have dark sides
[Odo, in particular, was shown to have a beaut last year].
Given these strengths, then, I almost wonder if the staff didn't fall prey to
the fallacy of "if some is good, then more must be even better". Consider
this:
Before, we had tension between characters at times. Great. Now, we get
people shouting at each other and virtually no one getting along.
Before, Odo had a dark side. Now, he's kidnapping people and acting as
though he's in a hormone-induced rage.
Neither one of these particularly appeals to me, I'm afraid, and I'm a little
concerned that it may be a harbinger of times to come. Time will tell, of
course.
Back to "The Search", itself, however, much of it was good. I did very much
like the idea of taking a ship in to take the crisis to the Founders. Slim
chance or none, it *is* more sensible than waiting to be overrun, and also
gives the characters something to do with all the nervous energy they'd
otherwise use in insulting Quark. :-) The use of the Defiant is also
sensible; I'm not surprised that the Feds had something left over from their
Borg preparations looking for a use.
While the Defiant itself makes sense, though, I don't see the logic in having
Sisko and the rest of the crew run it. I can see Sisko perhaps using it for
this one mission, and taking *some* of the regular station crew with him --
but taking all of them (even if Odo had to be "invited" through a side
entrance) goes well beyond the absurd. Suppose the Jem'Hadar launch an
invasion while the Defiant is on a wild goose chase. The station could use
some strong defenses then -- so *who's* left to run them?
Slapping everyone onto the Defiant simply reeked of setup. Sisko makes
sense. O'Brien I can see for technical reasons, and Quark was justified on
screen (in a swooningly funny scene, too) -- but everyone else isn't needed.
Bashir in particular is utterly unnecessary; this is a SUICIDE mission, and
everyone knows it. Given that sickbay is virtually nonexistent anyway, you
certainly don't need the CMO of the large and well-populated station.
I also think that we'll need some justification if the Defiant is sticking
around for the foreseeable future, as has been stated in the popular press.
It makes perfect sense to have the Defiant around for *this* mission, but
once it's over, I can't quite see Starfleet Command saying "nah, keep it" --
or for that matter, Sisko *wanting* to use it for joyrides.
On to some other issues. I'm also a little bit concerned about this "Odo
finds his people" plot. While we got a nice sense of wonder, and I *am*
curious about where it's all going to lead, I'm worried by the following:
-- Why is Odo being affected *now*? He's been in the Gamma Quadrant before,
on at least one occasion ("Shadowplay") that I can remember, and never felt
any ill effects in the past. Is it time for him to swim upstream to spawn?
Is he being "recalled" by his people? As long as we get *some* explanation,
I'll be happy, but if it's not forthcoming I'll be more than a little
annoyed.
-- The Founders are only a legend. Changelings are only a legend -- or were
until now. Are the two legends of the same beings? I truly hope not -- way
too contrived. (On the other hand, if they're *not*, then Odo's story may
get short shrift, and I don't want _that_, either. Ugh.)
And so it goes.
Character-wise, on the other hand, things still look mostly good. While the
appearance of "more conflict! More, more!" is a concern, as I said, the
characters _themselves_ seem to be okay once you get past that. In
particular, none of the reactions we saw seemed *wrong* to me -- overplayed
at times, yes (such as Odo's growling at Quark and Sisko's unexpected
passion), but not wrong.
I particularly liked seeing Sisko's scenes with Jake and Dax. In addition to
seeing a good sense of time passing, the Sisko/Jake scene just felt utterly
*right* in terms of the two characters involved. Jake's still a realistic
kid (though I think it'd have been better if his "last Thursday" comment
*hadn't* had a real reason :-) ), and Sisko's sudden realization that he
cares enough to call "this Cardassian monstrosity" home hit hard. It may
also have a double meaning -- with TNG gone, DS9 as a series *has* to be home
for diehard fans on some level. Given that Ron Moore, who wrote the script,
just came to the series *from* TNG, I think it's worth considering.
I've already mentioned Sisko's scene with Quark, but it's definitely a
keeper. Kira's work with Odo also rang true with me -- while her "I'm your
friend; you know, the one who comes to *you* when she needs help" prompted a
"you know, the one who commits murder and lies to you about it" response from
us, it makes sense in context that she might want to *overcompensate* for
having betrayed Odo in the past. Besides, just hearing her rant about "what
the HELL is wrong with Starfleet?" was amusing. At least in the last two
years she's learned to ask nicely first. ;-)
As a sidebar to that, Starfleet's worry about Odo seems _extremely_ right on
the money. There *have* been security breaches, and Odo *has* seemed well
out of the "Starfleet way" of doing things and of considering things. The
Federation is generally very hands-off and "talk it out"-ish, and that's not
Odo at all. That may be part of the appeal of the character, but it also
means that he and the Feds are liable to have strife. I'm sure this issue
won't last (at least insofar as Odo's resignation is concerned), but it'd be
nice to see hints that Odo has to compromise a *little* bit.
Then, of course, we come to the action sequences. Crotchety though I may be
this week, they were damned fun. :-) I do have one nit, though -- why was
T'Rul the only one carrying a sidearm? I can't imagine that it would have
done more than slightly delay the Jem'Hadar overrunning the ship, and it
would certainly have made sense. Other than that, though, the battles were
fun, and the tension scene with "have we been discovered?" was one of the
better tactical sequences I've seen in Trek. (And my students had a point;
those weapons on the Defiant *are* pretty neat-looking. ;-) )
The cliffhanger was pretty neatly set up, in that the characters have been
broken up *very* smartly by the end. Quark is off hanging around with
Ornithar, having shown the intelligence to want _off_ the ship as quickly as
possible; Dax and O'Brien are imprisoned someplace; Kira and Odo are on
Odo's world; and we have no idea where Sisko and Bashir are going to be.
That's a lot of balls in the air; I hope they don't all come crashing down.
(Speaking of "no idea where they are", I thought the transition from the
Defiant's attack to Kira waking up in the shuttle was beautifully handled.)
Now, some short takes:
-- From the "hey, isn't that..." file: we've seen two of the guest stars
before. Salome Jens, who played the changeling welcoming Odo home, was last
seen as the humanoid delivering the "you are the end of evolution" speech in
"The Chase" -- something I'll try not to hold against her. :-) John Fleck,
who played Ornithar (and very nicely, too), should also seem familiar, at
least in voice -- he played the Romulan brainwashing Geordi back in "The
Mind's Eye", and is probably better known as Del Varner in "Babylon 5"'s
pilot.
-- I know I'm going to get hurt for this, but was anyone else yelling "hey,
it's Moonbase Alpha!" when Odo's world came into view? (Actually, I won't
take the blame for this; Lisa yelled it out. I just relayed the message...)
-- An interesting (and undoubtedly wrong) theory about Odo's folk: We saw
them all emerging from the same location, and only one spoke. Suppose that
they're all actually one being? Might Odo have been a Bit'o'Changeling sent
out to explore, and accidentally have picked up more free will that was
intended? [This one's also Lisa's idea; maybe she ought to help me *write*
the reviews from now on...:-) ]
-- A word about the cloaking device. One of my officemates wondered why they
weren't using the phased-cloak we saw in "The Pegasus" -- and if he's
wondering it, I'm sure others are as well. :-) My take is this: the
Defiant certainly wouldn't have been designed with one originally, since the
technology wasn't known at the time. After that, the Feds couldn't very well
tell the Romulans "no thanks on the cloaking device; we've got one already,
you see, it's very nice...". (This assumes that the Romulans knew about the
Defiant years ago, true, but I think it makes sense. It also leaves the
whole issue of the morality of the phased-cloak out of it, which suits me
fine right at the moment.)
That's about it. I'm reserving judgement on DS9's new direction until I see
how much of it sticks around and how well everyone settles into it. If the
changes we're seeing can be (1) toned down a bit, and (2) justified, then I
think everything will turn out fine, and DS9 can continue the run of quality
it had for much of last season.
So, to wrap up:
Plot: A bit too contrived for my liking. This was a strong show in some
ways, but this wasn't one of them.
Plot Handling: This, on the other hand, was very nice. We got a lot of good
atmosphere in both the writing and the directing.
Characterization: Overdone, but not *wrong*. Some of this might be
due to Ron Moore's inexperience with these particular characters;
if so, I hope to see his next script work out better.
OVERALL: Call it a 6.5, providing part 2 doesn't change my opinions of this
setup drastically.
NEXT WEEK:
Wait a sec. We must've missed something here...
Tim Lynch (Harvard-Westlake School, Science Dept.)
BITNET: tlynch@citjulie
INTERNET: tly...@juliet.caltech.edu
UUCP: ...!ucbvax!tlynch%juliet.ca...@hamlet.caltech.edu
"Can I speak freely?"
[nod]
"What the HELL is wrong with Starfleet?"
-- Kira and Sisko
--
Copyright 1994, Timothy W. Lynch. All rights reserved, but feel free to ask...
This article is explicitly prohibited from being used in any off-net
compilation without due attribution and *express written consent of the
author*. Walnut Creek and other CD-ROM distributors, take note.
TONY_YUAN LI
Timothy W. Lynch <tly...@juliet.caltech.edu> wrote:
>WARNING: This review contains spoiler information regarding DS9's third
>season premiere, "The Search, Part I". If you haven't seen the show and
>don't want information about it, don't read any further.
>Before, we had tension between characters at times. Great. Now, we get
>people shouting at each other and virtually no one getting along.
With awareness of the power of the Jem'Hadar on the other side of
the wormhole, the people on the station could become rather tense
as if they were facing Armageddon itself.
>-- Why is Odo being affected *now*? He's been in the Gamma Quadrant before,
>on at least one occasion ("Shadowplay") that I can remember, and never felt
>any ill effects in the past. Is it time for him to swim upstream to spawn?
>Is he being "recalled" by his people? As long as we get *some* explanation,
>I'll be happy, but if it's not forthcoming I'll be more than a little
>annoyed.
>
The way I see it, he only starts to act rather unusually when he
first hears the mention of a particular nebula (sorry, I don't
remember the name). Hearing its name seems to have jogged his
memory of his origin.
>-- From the "hey, isn't that..." file: we've seen two of the guest stars
>before. Salome Jens, who played the changeling welcoming Odo home, was last
>seen as the humanoid delivering the "you are the end of evolution" speech in
>"The Chase" -- something I'll try not to hold against her. :-)
Are the changelings then meant to be the humanoids in "The Chase"??????
So far, we have only similarities in appearance, that's all.
>--
>Copyright 1994, Timothy W. Lynch. All rights reserved, but feel free to ask...
>This article is explicitly prohibited from being used in any off-net
>compilation without due attribution and *express written consent of the
>author*. Walnut Creek and other CD-ROM distributors, take note.
Tony Li
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine----
==========================
On the edge of the final frontier. Its mission: To keep
watch over the sector, to guide Bajor into the Federation,
to meet new people who want to go where they've never gone before.
The Cunning Linguist
: WARNING: This review contains spoiler information regarding DS9's third
: don't want information about it, don't read any further.
: ------
: Brief Summary:
: Sisko and the DS9 crew take a new ship, the Defiant, into the Gamma Quadrant
: to search for the Founders, legendary leaders of the Dominion.
: ------
: While the Defiant itself makes sense, though, I don't see the logic in having
: Sisko and the rest of the crew run it. I can see Sisko perhaps using it for
: this one mission, and taking *some* of the regular station crew with him --
: but taking all of them (even if Odo had to be "invited" through a side
: entrance) goes well beyond the absurd. Suppose the Jem'Hadar launch an
: invasion while the Defiant is on a wild goose chase. The station could use
: some strong defenses then -- so *who's* left to run them?
Well...
Sisko et al have had the most experiance with that area of space
and Starfleet needs all the experianced persons on the other side contacting the
founders (or whoever). All the simulations run said DS9 would be over-run,
the only difference was time, two minutes or two hours, when your going to die
it doesn't make much diff. The REAL stand would be made at Bajor, and I didn't
see a Bajoran general going with them.
: Slapping everyone onto the Defiant simply reeked of setup. Sisko makes
: sense. O'Brien I can see for technical reasons, and Quark was justified on
: screen (in a swooningly funny scene, too) -- but everyone else isn't needed.
: Bashir in particular is utterly unnecessary; this is a SUICIDE mission, and
: everyone knows it. Given that sickbay is virtually nonexistent anyway, you
: certainly don't need the CMO of the large and well-populated station.
Well (again)...
Dax: Sci Officer, Might need her, considering Starfleet Command gave
Sisko a ship and just enough crew to run her (I got that from
from inferences, so if I got the wrong vibe tell me)
Bashir: Same as Dax. The Station can get along without him just fine
(If the Jem'Hadar show up at DS9, it's gonna be Meatball
surgery at best, just patching people up so they don't bleed
on the escape pods)
Kira: Expert in hopeless battle situations and is the Bajoran Rep
(and looks DAMN cute in combat).
: I also think that we'll need some justification if the Defiant is sticking
: around for the foreseeable future, as has been stated in the popular press.
: It makes perfect sense to have the Defiant around for *this* mission, but
: once it's over, I can't quite see Starfleet Command saying "nah, keep it" --
: or for that matter, Sisko *wanting* to use it for joyrides.
I dunno on this one, gotta see how next ep pans out.
: -- Why is Odo being affected *now*? He's been in the Gamma Quadrant before,
: on at least one occasion ("Shadowplay") that I can remember, and never felt
: any ill effects in the past. Is it time for him to swim upstream to spawn?
: Is he being "recalled" by his people? As long as we get *some* explanation,
: I'll be happy, but if it's not forthcoming I'll be more than a little
: annoyed.
I'm guessing Odo being Odo never looked at any of the mapping missions
findings. I am GUSSING that he recognised the STAR PATTERN and it's not the
being on the other side of the wormhole that got to him. He didn't start acting
odd (or it that Oddo?) until after he saw the map (I think, but I coulda been
distracted).
: -- A word about the cloaking device. One of my officemates wondered why they
: weren't using the phased-cloak we saw in "The Pegasus" -- and if he's
: wondering it, I'm sure others are as well. :-) My take is this: the
: Defiant certainly wouldn't have been designed with one originally, since the
: technology wasn't known at the time. After that, the Feds couldn't very well
: tell the Romulans "no thanks on the cloaking device; we've got one already,
: you see, it's very nice...". (This assumes that the Romulans knew about the
: Defiant years ago, true, but I think it makes sense. It also leaves the
: whole issue of the morality of the phased-cloak out of it, which suits me
: fine right at the moment.)
OK, I GOT THIS ONE, sorry to shout, but I don't have to conjecture
(much) on this nit:
In "The Pegasus" Ponty the Pontificating one ...err.. Picard goes
off on how having the federation DEVELOP cloaking tech violates some odd treaty
singed with the Romulans, so even though the Feds have a cloak (and a damned
good one) they can't use it cause they weren't supposed to make it in the first
place. SO, the only way they could get a cloak was to ask someone who already
had it. The Klingons wouldn't give them one cause the Feds want it to AVOID
fighting. The Romulans will give one freely, if no-one touches it, they get
near unlimited passage through Federation space to get to the Gamma Quad,
and they can peek at the Federation's ONLY warship. (Well, sounds good to me).
Willie "I like `STARTREK:FEDERATION` " Yelverton
Vikas Anirudha Aggarwal
>
>-- A word about the cloaking device. One of my officemates wondered why they
>weren't using the phased-cloak we saw in "The Pegasus" -- and if he's
>wondering it, I'm sure others are as well. :-) My take is this: the
>Defiant certainly wouldn't have been designed with one originally, since the
>technology wasn't known at the time. After that, the Feds couldn't very well
>tell the Romulans "no thanks on the cloaking device; we've got one already,
>you see, it's very nice...".
Or do you think that they think that it is a stolen Romulan device?
After the Pegasus, I was under the impression that the Federation
and the Romulans would have had some sort of dialogue re the device,
and therefore it would be obvious that the Federation had been
secretly developing one. Whether the Romulans actually knew that
it was a _phased_ cloak is a different matter. However when it
comes to the security of the defiant, it would be in the best interest
of the Federation (and the Romulans) to use the phasing cloak.
--
=============================== ====================================
|| Vikas A. Aggarwal || || vik...@flagstaff.Princeton.EDU ||
|| Princeton University || || ------------------------------ ||
=============================== ====================================
Ted McCoy
>season premiere, "The Search, Part I". If you haven't seen the show and
>don't want information about it, don't read any further.
>the fallacy of "if some is good, then more must be even better". Consider
>this:
>
>Before, we had tension between characters at times. Great. Now, we get
>people shouting at each other and virtually no one getting along.
Hmm, there were great scenes between Dax and Sisko, and between Sisko and his
son...I thought the Kira/Odo interaction was more than shouting, considering
the stress both were under...really, considering what this episode was about,
I don't think there was too much shouting and too little cooperation. Most
of the shouting was with Odo.
>Before, Odo had a dark side. Now, he's kidnapping people and acting as
>though he's in a hormone-induced rage.
Odo didn't seem to be himself in this episode. Especially in his scene with
Quark. I think that scene maybe was meant as a clue that something was
happening to him.
>While the Defiant itself makes sense, though, I don't see the logic in having
>Sisko and the rest of the crew run it. I can see Sisko perhaps using it for
>this one mission, and taking *some* of the regular station crew with him --
>but taking all of them (even if Odo had to be "invited" through a side
>entrance) goes well beyond the absurd. Suppose the Jem'Hadar launch an
>invasion while the Defiant is on a wild goose chase. The station could use
>some strong defenses then -- so *who's* left to run them?
As far as the fear of a Dominion invasion goes, I don't think leaving command
staff on the station would count as a strong defense. What did they say at
the start of the episode, two hours before Bajor would be captured by the
Dominion if an invasion happened, under the best of circumstances? I think
it's pretty clear that any good they can do to stop an invasion will *not*
be done on the station.
On the other hand, it would have made a *lot* of sense to leave at least one
of the command staff on the station, just for the normal business of running
the station. But, considering that traffic through the wormhole had been
halted (right?) and the general danger in the region, it makes sense that
there wouldn't be as many people on the station at the moment.
If they send out the entire command staff with the Defiant in future episodes,
though, that could be a problem. It makes sense here, mostly, but that's
because this is a very special case.
>I also think that we'll need some justification if the Defiant is sticking
>around for the foreseeable future, as has been stated in the popular press.
>It makes perfect sense to have the Defiant around for *this* mission, but
>once it's over, I can't quite see Starfleet Command saying "nah, keep it" --
>or for that matter, Sisko *wanting* to use it for joyrides.
If the Dominion sticks around, that would be a good reason for keeping it,
although not for using it for joyrides.
>On to some other issues. I'm also a little bit concerned about this "Odo
>finds his people" plot. While we got a nice sense of wonder, and I *am*
>curious about where it's all going to lead, I'm worried by the following:
>
>-- Why is Odo being affected *now*? He's been in the Gamma Quadrant before,
>on at least one occasion ("Shadowplay") that I can remember, and never felt
>any ill effects in the past. Is it time for him to swim upstream to spawn?
>Is he being "recalled" by his people? As long as we get *some* explanation,
>I'll be happy, but if it's not forthcoming I'll be more than a little
>annoyed.
>
>-- The Founders are only a legend. Changelings are only a legend -- or were
>until now. Are the two legends of the same beings? I truly hope not -- way
>too contrived. (On the other hand, if they're *not*, then Odo's story may
>get short shrift, and I don't want _that_, either. Ugh.)
If the changelings are the founders, that would give a good answer to your
first question. And I agree that we need a plausible explanation for why Odo
is reacting so strongly now.
>I've already mentioned Sisko's scene with Quark, but it's definitely a
>keeper. Kira's work with Odo also rang true with me -- while her "I'm your
>friend; you know, the one who comes to *you* when she needs help" prompted a
>"you know, the one who commits murder and lies to you about it" response from
>us, it makes sense in context that she might want to *overcompensate* for
>having betrayed Odo in the past. Besides, just hearing her rant about "what
>the HELL is wrong with Starfleet?" was amusing. At least in the last two
>years she's learned to ask nicely first. ;-)
I'm really enjoying the increasing Odo/Kira interaction, not just here but also
last season. At I think this sort of interaction and friendship is necessary
if we're to believe that Odo can still trust Kira after "Necessary Evil."
I really think this has been handled beautifully, so far.
Hey, what about the change with Sisko? Oops did I delete that paragraph by
accident?
The change in Sisko in this episode was pretty obvious. In the Trek universe,
I think it's explained by his visit to Earth, where he rethought a lot of his
priorities and maybe even found himself in a lot of trouble for not having
handled the Dominion situation better. I'll be very disappointed if we
don't see more scenes relating to how his experiences on earth changed him.
In the real-world universe, it's clear that the producers are trying to make
Sisko more of a hero. He had much more dramatic dialogue and more dramatic
poses in front of the camera. Well, part of that seemed awkward because it's
different than what we've become accustomed to -- but if they continue this
new approach throughout the season, I think I could really get used to it.
In particular, his character scenes (with Dax and Jake for instance) worked
really well with this new approach, which is promising. It's too early to
decide if this new approach to his character is going to work or not. At
any rate, I'm delighted that they actually presented a believable explanation
for this change.
>-- An interesting (and undoubtedly wrong) theory about Odo's folk: We saw
>them all emerging from the same location, and only one spoke. Suppose that
>they're all actually one being? Might Odo have been a Bit'o'Changeling sent
>out to explore, and accidentally have picked up more free will that was
>intended? [This one's also Lisa's idea; maybe she ought to help me *write*
>the reviews from now on...:-) ]
Now that's actually really interesting...
Something I noticed is that they all took variations of Odo's basic form, even
though I was under the impression that he learned that form and that it's not
his natural form. Two possible explanations: 1) They did it to communicate
with him (and there was a pause after they saw him, as if they were quickly
deciding how to mimic his form), or 2) When Odo was trying to learn to look
human, he was actually learning to take on some sort of natural form for his
species. Maybe just a natural development process. This would explain why
he has trouble forming a human nose even though he can become a rat or a
painting or whatever.
>That's about it. I'm reserving judgement on DS9's new direction until I see
>how much of it sticks around and how well everyone settles into it. If the
>changes we're seeing can be (1) toned down a bit, and (2) justified, then I
>think everything will turn out fine, and DS9 can continue the run of quality
>it had for much of last season.
Yeah, I think I agree with you on this. Except I'm more optimistic that
they'll be justified.
>OVERALL: Call it a 6.5, providing part 2 doesn't change my opinions of this
>setup drastically.
Wow, that's harsh. I'd put this in the 8 or 9 range (multiplying my 0 through
5 scale by two...)
Although it's hard to judge until we see how this is resolved.
Ted
Todd Horowitz
>season premiere, "The Search, Part I". If you haven't seen the show and
>don't want information about it, don't read any further.
>In brief: well, not bad, but lots of causes for concern about DS9's
>much-touted new direction.
>First, a change from the old review style. I had piles of people last year
>asking me to please include some sort of summary to help them remember which
>episode I was even talking about. Far be it from me to refuse such
>stout-hearted pleas :-), so from now on I'll include a one or two sentence
>blurb before going on to the review proper. So, onwards...
>
>------
>Brief Summary:
>
>Sisko and the DS9 crew take a new ship, the Defiant, into the Gamma Quadrant
>to search for the Founders, legendary leaders of the Dominion.
>------
>
>though he's in a hormone-induced rage.
I don't think that rescuing Kira and then taking a detour home before
going back to the wormhole counts as _kidnapping_, exactly.
>While the Defiant itself makes sense, though, I don't see the logic in having
>Sisko and the rest of the crew run it. I can see Sisko perhaps using it for
>this one mission, and taking *some* of the regular station crew with him --
>but taking all of them (even if Odo had to be "invited" through a side
>entrance) goes well beyond the absurd. Suppose the Jem'Hadar launch an
>invasion while the Defiant is on a wild goose chase. The station could use
>some strong defenses then -- so *who's* left to run them?
What I would've liked is an explanation of why the Federation did
not commit some capital ships to defending the wormhole. The mission to
the Founders makes a great deal of sense, as it's clear from "The Jem'Hadar"
that the Dominion's hostility is based on their perception of an invasion by
the Alpha Quandrant types, so a little dialogue could save a lot of lives. On
the other hand, you'd think that you'd want a backup plan in case sweet reason
failed, and he easiest way to stop a Dominion invasion is to stop them AT
the wormhole.
I'm sure there are a number of plausible excuses as to why Starfleeet
couldn't spare a bunch of cruisers to sit around Bajor waiting for the Dominion
to come through the wormhole, but they could've at least _mentioned_ something!
>Slapping everyone onto the Defiant simply reeked of setup. Sisko makes
>sense. O'Brien I can see for technical reasons, and Quark was justified on
>screen (in a swooningly funny scene, too) -- but everyone else isn't needed.
>Bashir in particular is utterly unnecessary; this is a SUICIDE mission, and
>everyone knows it. Given that sickbay is virtually nonexistent anyway, you
>certainly don't need the CMO of the large and well-populated station.
It's just like TOS where Kirk always had to take his four top officers
into every dangerous situation. you'd think Kira would be left in charge of
the station, at the very least. And Starfleet should've provided the defiant
with a full crew, already familiar with the ship and it's operation.
>I also think that we'll need some justification if the Defiant is sticking
>around for the foreseeable future, as has been stated in the popular press.
>It makes perfect sense to have the Defiant around for *this* mission, but
>once it's over, I can't quite see Starfleet Command saying "nah, keep it" --
>or for that matter, Sisko *wanting* to use it for joyrides.
Well, actually, the Defiant might make a good defensive weapon. It's
design flaws center around the engines. If they just park it outside the
wormhole and blast everything that comes through, those weaknesses don't come
into play.
>-- Why is Odo being affected *now*? He's been in the Gamma Quadrant before,
>on at least one occasion ("Shadowplay") that I can remember, and never felt
>any ill effects in the past. Is it time for him to swim upstream to spawn?
>Is he being "recalled" by his people? As long as we get *some* explanation,
>I'll be happy, but if it's not forthcoming I'll be more than a little
>annoyed.
For me, this was the weakest part of the plot. Why would Odo even
recognize the Bajoran/Starfleet name for the nebula from which he came? This
mystical interstellar spawning business is very annoying, nd I have the
feeling that we're going to get a very lame explanation next week.
>-- The Founders are only a legend. Changelings are only a legend -- or were
>until now. Are the two legends of the same beings? I truly hope not -- way
>too contrived. (On the other hand, if they're *not*, then Odo's story may
>get short shrift, and I don't want _that_, either. Ugh.)
Actually, they would do better to concentrate more on the Odo story
and allow the Founders to remain a mystery for a few more weeks. If they
turn out to be one and the same, however, you're right that that would be
terribly contrived and unsatisfying.
>Character-wise, on the other hand, things still look mostly good. While the
>appearance of "more conflict! More, more!" is a concern, as I said, the
>characters _themselves_ seem to be okay once you get past that. In
>particular, none of the reactions we saw seemed *wrong* to me -- overplayed
>at times, yes (such as Odo's growling at Quark and Sisko's unexpected
>passion), but not wrong.
Odo's growling strongly reminded me of Spock in "Amok Time".
>I've already mentioned Sisko's scene with Quark, but it's definitely a
>keeper. Kira's work with Odo also rang true with me -- while her "I'm your
>friend; you know, the one who comes to *you* when she needs help" prompted a
>"you know, the one who commits murder and lies to you about it" response from
>us, it makes sense in context that she might want to *overcompensate* for
>having betrayed Odo in the past. Besides, just hearing her rant about "what
>the HELL is wrong with Starfleet?" was amusing. At least in the last two
>years she's learned to ask nicely first. ;-)
I actually found Kira's scenes with Odo a bit mawkish. Can't these
people repress their feelings a little more? :)]
>As a sidebar to that, Starfleet's worry about Odo seems _extremely_ right on
>the money. There *have* been security breaches, and Odo *has* seemed well
>out of the "Starfleet way" of doing things and of considering things. The
>Federation is generally very hands-off and "talk it out"-ish, and that's not
>Odo at all. That may be part of the appeal of the character, but it also
>means that he and the Feds are liable to have strife. I'm sure this issue
>won't last (at least insofar as Odo's resignation is concerned), but it'd be
>nice to see hints that Odo has to compromise a *little* bit.
I hope they take a little time to "resolve the issue". If things are
back to "normal" in the episode following part 2 I'll be a little annoyed.
>-- A word about the cloaking device. One of my officemates wondered why they
>weren't using the phased-cloak we saw in "The Pegasus" -- and if he's
>wondering it, I'm sure others are as well. :-) My take is this: the
>Defiant certainly wouldn't have been designed with one originally, since the
>technology wasn't known at the time. After that, the Feds couldn't very well
>tell the Romulans "no thanks on the cloaking device; we've got one already,
>you see, it's very nice...". (This assumes that the Romulans knew about the
>Defiant years ago, true, but I think it makes sense. It also leaves the
>whole issue of the morality of the phased-cloak out of it, which suits me
>fine right at the moment.)
You're overlooking the enourmous implications of a Federation-
Romulan alliance. If I were the federation, I'd call up the Romulans,
give them the scoop on the Dominion, and ask "So, we were, uh, wondering
if we might, ah, .... borrow a cloaking device?". Having the Romulans in
on the mission to the founders is probably more important than usin a
homegrown cloaking device. Building trust and cooperation with the Romulans
would be an immense, long-term asset for the Federation, far outweighing
a cloaking device which only lasted half the episode anyway!
>OVERALL: Call it a 6.5, providing part 2 doesn't change my opinions of this
>setup drastically.
If you think this episode is a 6.5, then you're saying it's below
average for DS9. I'd say about a 7.5, with the same caveat.
-todd
James Parker
: >-- A word about the cloaking device. One of my officemates wondered why they
: >wondering it, I'm sure others are as well. :-) My take is this: the
: >Defiant certainly wouldn't have been designed with one originally, since the
: >technology wasn't known at the time. After that, the Feds couldn't very well
: >tell the Romulans "no thanks on the cloaking device; we've got one already,
: >you see, it's very nice...".
I was under the impression that the Defiant was brand new, and since the
Pegasus had been built with the phase cloak before Riker ever even came
on board the Enterprise it would seem that the Federation had the
knowledge but just didn't do it, or BAD WRITING. I choose BAD WRITING
:
: Well, don't the Romulans know that the Federation has a cloaking device?
: Or do you think that they think that it is a stolen Romulan device?
They have to know. Didn't the Enterprise decloak with the Romulan ship
right there? (after getting the device from teh Pegasus?)
: After the Pegasus, I was under the impression that the
Federation
: and the Romulans would have had some sort of dialogue re the device,
: and therefore it would be obvious that the Federation had been
: secretly developing one. Whether the Romulans actually knew that
: it was a _phased_ cloak is a different matter. However when it
: comes to the security of the defiant, it would be in the best interest
: of the Federation (and the Romulans) to use the phasing cloak.
It would be in the best interest to use the phase cloak. But what about
the cloak used by the klingons in ST:VI? It could fire while cloaked.
Jeesh! Now that we are freinds with them, the least we could come up with
and use that old cloak on the Defiant!! It's like building a new
battleship and using tin foil for armor or something! I think it was bad
writing.... YASTI!
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
jam...@ccnet.com | "Show me a home where the buffalo
| roam and I'll show you a messy
San Francisco, CA | house."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Brinich
> -- A word about the cloaking device. One of my officemates wondered why
>they weren't using the phased-cloak we saw in "The Pegasus" -- and if he's
>wondering it, I'm sure others are as well. :-) My take is this: the
>Defiant certainly wouldn't have been designed with one originally, since the
>technology wasn't known at the time.
Huh? The original experiment on the Pegasus happened when Riker was a
raw ensign, long before the Defiant project.
--
Steve Brinich <ste...@access.digex.net> | If the government wants us
GEnie: S.BRINICH1 CI$: 74157,2226 | to respect the law
PGPrint 89B992BBE67F7B2F64FDF2EA14374C65 | it should set a better example
Jim Ogle
>WARNING: This review contains spoiler information regarding DS9's third
>season premiere, "The Search, Part I". If you haven't seen the show and
>don't want information about it, don't read any further.
[most deleted]
>Before, Odo had a dark side. Now, he's kidnapping people and acting as
>though he's in a hormone-induced rage.
Y'know, the first thing that went through my mind about Odo's
obsession with the nebula was "pon farr". Similar behaviors, maybe
similar reasons?
--
Kansas Jim, TORG guru (jo...@aoc.nrao.edu, NRAO-VLBA, Socorro New Mexico)
"I'd be apathetic if I cared."
Russell D. Sketchley
Minor spoilers on "The Search Pt. I" follow:
James Parker (jam...@ccnet.com) wrote:
: Vikas Anirudha Aggarwal (vik...@flagstaff.princeton.edu) wrote:
: : >-- A word about the cloaking device. One of my officemates wondered why they
: : >weren't using the phased-cloak we saw in "The Pegasus" -- and if he's
: : >wondering it, I'm sure others are as well. :-) My take is this: the
: : >Defiant certainly wouldn't have been designed with one originally, since the
: : >technology wasn't known at the time. After that, the Feds couldn't very well
: : >tell the Romulans "no thanks on the cloaking device; we've got one already,
: : >you see, it's very nice...".
: I was under the impression that the Defiant was brand new, and since the
: Pegasus had been built with the phase cloak before Riker ever even came
: on board the Enterprise it would seem that the Federation had the
: knowledge but just didn't do it, or BAD WRITING. I choose BAD WRITING
You're forgetting that the "experiment" on the Pegasus was hushed-up, and
completely unofficial. Starfleet did not know about its existence, only
Starfleet security did.
Because of this, and the fact that everyone involved faced court-martial
or at least an inquiry, I seriously doubt that Starfleet even now wants
to admit that this "experiment" took place. Remember too that, until
they found the Pegasus, they never completed the experiment or even knew
that it was successful, so they would not have been able to incorporate
it into the Defiant without more experimentation.
Russell
just another theatre geek
>Vikas Anirudha Aggarwal (vik...@flagstaff.princeton.edu) wrote:
>They have to know. Didn't the Enterprise decloak with the Romulan ship
>right there? (after getting the device from teh Pegasus?)
Piece of the puzzle, staring you right in the face.
--
Roger Tang, gwan...@u.washington.edu, Artistic Director PC Theatre
The most unAmerican thing you can say is "He/she makes too much money."
Chris Blaise
: Then, of course, we come to the action sequences. Crotchety though I may be
: this week, they were damned fun. :-) I do have one nit, though -- why was
: T'Rul the only one carrying a sidearm? I can't imagine that it would have
: done more than slightly delay the Jem'Hadar overrunning the ship, and it
: would certainly have made sense.
Actually, they did. When they first board the ship, Dax is
clearly wearing a dustbus^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hphaser. I could have sworn the
others were wearing them too.
TTYL
Chris
Lisa Clayton
I've been waiting with baited breath for Mr. Lynch's review. I'm
not disappointed. It's always great stuff, and puts the shows
into the context of SF in general, which I really appreciate.
I have one nitpicky comment, though:
: Before, Odo had a dark side. Now, he's kidnapping people and acting as
: though he's in a hormone-induced rage.
I'm not sure about the kidnapping part. Odo knew that the Defiant
was doomed, and had been boarded. It would have been logical for him
to drag Kira out into a shuttle and get the hell out of there.
Having them manage to escape the Jem'Hadar's notice was a stretch, though.
If part II manages to wrap everything up without a "sleep" command
issued to the Jem'Hadar, then I'll be a happy woman...
____ Lisa K. Clayton Geek |GS/TW d-- H++ s:++ g+++ p3 !au a32 w+ C++++ P--
\ / cla...@sfsu.edu Code |L- 3- E- N++ K W+>+++$ M !V po--- Y+ t+ 5 j- R-
\/ Band Is Life 2.1 |G? tv b++>+++ D-- B e+ u** h--- f+ r+++ n+ x++/**
"There is nothing more onanistic than playing the bass clarinet by yourself"
-Steve Trier
Kim Headlee
There were a couple of points I'd like to comment upon, though . . .
In article <36kvm9$6...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, tly...@cco.caltech.edu
(Timothy W. Lynch) wrote:
[mega-snip]
> The station could use some strong defenses then -- so *who's* left to run
> them?
Good question. Others in this thread have post-ulated about various
reasons why this tactic was used. IMO what we have here is another classic
example of the baldfaced truth that Trek writers are not (never have been
and probably never will be, alas) military strategists!!! (And they don't
even have the good sense to consult my husband or myself! ;-) You never
*never* NEVER leave your posterior unguarded! I don't care how minimal the
risk might be. It is simply Not Done. There. End of rant. :-)
Even a simple remark about *actually* summoning reinforcements from Bajor
would have sufficed, IMO, rather than "We can't cuz they're too slow
anyways" . . . and BTW, did anyone give the Provisional Govt. any kinds of
"heads up" warning? Methinks that would've been appropriate too. Well,
maybe that wound up on the cutting room floor.
[snip]
> I also think that we'll need some justification if the Defiant is sticking
> around for the foreseeable future, as has been stated in the popular press.
Will it, though? Odo tells Kira he saw it "dead in space." Presumably it
gets captured, dissected for its technologocal "secrets" ("hey, these punks
actually managed to fool us for 30 seconds!"), and then its usefulness --
at least against the Big D -- is kaput. Oh but wait . . . that would be
"reality." I almost forgot, we're talking about the Trek-iverse. Sorry.
(huge :-)
[more snipping]
> I do have one nit, though -- why was T'Rul the only one carrying a sidearm?
I'll have to go back and watch my tape to be sure, but I distinctly
remember noticing at least one of the Feds with a sidearm (O'Brien maybe?
Or Dax?). But the warrior-blooded T'Rul was definitely the only one with
the presence of mind to remember hers -- *and* use it! I remember thinking
this was a nice "cultural difference" touch.
[remainder snipped]
I would agree with other posters that the episode ranks >= 7.5. Personally
I give it an 8.5.
Then again, who cares? ;-)
--
Kim D. Headlee (hea...@bdcv9.nrl.navy.mil)
DBA, Backgrounds Data Center
Naval Research Lab, Washington D.C.
Dave Arns
> First, a change from the old review style. I had piles of people last year
> asking me to please include some sort of summary to help them remember which
> episode I was even talking about. Far be it from me to refuse such
> stout-hearted pleas :-), so from now on I'll include a one or two sentence
> blurb before going on to the review proper. So, onwards...
> ------
> Brief Summary:
> ...
Does this mean you won't be doing full-blown synopses in your reviews anymore?
While I appreciate your reviews of plot, characterization, etc., I also enjoy
reading and rereading the synopses; sometimes as spoilers, sometimes as
review. Please consider continuing the full-length synopses as in the past.
Thanks for your ST efforts...
Dave Arns
--
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+---------------------------+ \ E-mail: da...@fc.hp.com
| Dave Arns MS27 \ HP-Desk: dave_arns@hp4000
| Hewlett-Packard Company \ HP Telnet: 1-229-3882
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|/
Joshua Grass
Steve Brinich <ste...@access4.digex.net> wrote:
>>tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) wrote:
>
> > -- A word about the cloaking device. One of my officemates wondered why
> >they weren't using the phased-cloak we saw in "The Pegasus" -- and if he's
> >wondering it, I'm sure others are as well. :-) My take is this: the
> >Defiant certainly wouldn't have been designed with one originally, since the
> >technology wasn't known at the time.
>
> Huh? The original experiment on the Pegasus happened when Riker was a
>raw ensign, long before the Defiant project.
>
Yea, but they thought it had failed until the middle of season seven. Which
would have been after the Defiant was built.
Joshua
Joshua Grass
Yes, they did all have phasers. Only the Romulan was far enough away from the
boarding party that she had time to draw. Frankly, I would have liked it if
they had made the Romulan kick a few more butts before she got taken down. And
also if she had been vaporizing people instead of stunning them. It would have
given her more of a military character.
Joshua
Timothy W. Lynch
>In article <36kvm9$6...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
>Timothy W. Lynch <tly...@juliet.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>WARNING: This review contains spoiler information regarding DS9's third
>>season premiere, "The Search, Part I". If you haven't seen the show and
>>don't want information about it, don't read any further.
>>-- From the "hey, isn't that..." file: we've seen two of the guest stars
>>before. Salome Jens, who played the changeling welcoming Odo home, was last
>>seen as the humanoid delivering the "you are the end of evolution" speech in
>>"The Chase" -- something I'll try not to hold against her. :-)
>Are the changelings then meant to be the humanoids in "The Chase"??????
I very much doubt it. It's not like Trek never reuses actors, after all. ;-)
Just pointing out the repeat business, not trying to raise speculation (at
least *this* time...)
Tim Lynch
Timothy W. Lynch
>Timothy W. Lynch (tly...@cco.caltech.edu) wrote:
>: WARNING: This review contains spoiler information regarding DS9's third
>: season premiere, "The Search, Part I". If you haven't seen the show and
>: don't want information about it, don't read any further.
>:While the Defiant itself makes sense, though, I don't see the logic in having
>:Sisko and the rest of the crew run it. I can see Sisko perhaps using it for
>:this one mission, and taking *some* of the regular station crew with him --
>:but taking all of them (even if Odo had to be "invited" through a side
>:entrance) goes well beyond the absurd. Suppose the Jem'Hadar launch an
>:invasion while the Defiant is on a wild goose chase. The station could use
>:some strong defenses then -- so *who's* left to run them?
> Well...
> Sisko et al have had the most experiance with that area of space
>and Starfleet needs all the experianced persons on the other side contacting
>the founders (or whoever).
That justifies Sisko and Quark, yes -- but no one else has had any experience
with the Dominion other than being shot at. I don't think others are needed
for that.
>All the simulations run said DS9 would be over-run,
>the only difference was time, two minutes or two hours, when your going to die
>it doesn't make much diff. The REAL stand would be made at Bajor, and I didn't
>see a Bajoran general going with them.
Coordinating further defenses with the Federation? With Bajor? The fact that
DS9 is unlikely to survive an attack doesn't mean everyone simply strolls off
it, particularly with civilians still *on* the bloody thing.
>: Slapping everyone onto the Defiant simply reeked of setup. Sisko makes
>: sense. O'Brien I can see for technical reasons, and Quark was justified on
>: screen (in a swooningly funny scene, too) -- but everyone else isn't needed.
> Dax: Sci Officer, Might need her, considering Starfleet Command gave
> Sisko a ship and just enough crew to run her (I got that from
> from inferences, so if I got the wrong vibe tell me)
It's exactly that "SC didn't give him a crew" issue that I think is so
absurd. Why not? The DS9 crew *has* an assignment; the rest of the
universe doesn't vanish simply because of the search for the Founders. This
was a prayer to the gods of Dramatic Necessity, nothing more.
> Bashir: Same as Dax. The Station can get along without him just fine
So can the ship, and the station *needs* a CMO.
> Kira: Expert in hopeless battle situations and is the Bajoran Rep
The Bajoran rep argument I can buy, at least. Great, that's three people
justified. That leaves four...
>: -- Why is Odo being affected *now*? He's been in the Gamma Quadrant before,
>: on at least one occasion ("Shadowplay") that I can remember, and never felt
>: any ill effects in the past. Is it time for him to swim upstream to spawn?
>: Is he being "recalled" by his people? As long as we get *some* explanation,
>: I'll be happy, but if it's not forthcoming I'll be more than a little
>: annoyed.
> I'm guessing Odo being Odo never looked at any of the mapping missions
>findings. I am GUSSING that he recognised the STAR PATTERN and it's not the
>being on the other side of the wormhole that got to him. He didn't start
>acting odd (or it that Oddo?) until after he saw the map (I think, but I
>coulda been distracted).
I don't agree. Simply recognizing a star pattern does not make one a zombie.
He's under some sort of compulsion, and even *he* says he's felt this urge to
go someplace as soon as they reached the Gamma Quadrant. I could easily be-
lieve he never saw the charts, but I don't consider them the catalyst for this.
Tim Lynch
Timothy W. Lynch
>In article <36kvm9$6...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
>Timothy W. Lynch <tly...@juliet.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>WARNING: This review contains spoiler information regarding DS9's third
>>season premiere, "The Search, Part I". If you haven't seen the show and
>>don't want information about it, don't read any further.
>>Before, we had tension between characters at times. Great. Now, we get
>>people shouting at each other and virtually no one getting along.
>Hmm, there were great scenes between Dax and Sisko, and between Sisko and his
>son...I thought the Kira/Odo interaction was more than shouting, considering
>the stress both were under...really, considering what this episode was about,
>I don't think there was too much shouting and too little cooperation. Most
>of the shouting was with Odo.
Most of it, yes. You have a point, in that I underplayed the Sisko/Dax
and Sisko/Jake scenes (both of which I agree were excellent).
>>Before, Odo had a dark side. Now, he's kidnapping people and acting as
>>though he's in a hormone-induced rage.
>Odo didn't seem to be himself in this episode.
I know. That's my worry. :-) As long as his mega-irascibility isn't a
permanent change, I can deal with it here. That's a question for the future.
>>While the Defiant itself makes sense, though, I don't see the logic in having
>>Sisko and the rest of the crew run it. I can see Sisko perhaps using it for
>>this one mission, and taking *some* of the regular station crew with him --
>>but taking all of them (even if Odo had to be "invited" through a side
>>entrance) goes well beyond the absurd. Suppose the Jem'Hadar launch an
>>invasion while the Defiant is on a wild goose chase. The station could use
>>some strong defenses then -- so *who's* left to run them?
>As far as the fear of a Dominion invasion goes, I don't think leaving command
>staff on the station would count as a strong defense.
I think leaving high-level people around to prepare for the eventuality and to
coordinate defenses with other parties is a must. You don't leave a base
completely empty of command staff under *any* circumstances, particularly ones
as tense as these.
>On the other hand, it would have made a *lot* of sense to leave at least one
>of the command staff on the station, just for the normal business of running
>the station. But, considering that traffic through the wormhole had been
>halted (right?) and the general danger in the region, it makes sense that
>there wouldn't be as many people on the station at the moment.
There are still plenty there, including lots of civilians. I think this
argument is valid as well.
>If they send out the entire command staff with the Defiant in future episodes,
>though, that could be a problem. It makes sense here, mostly, but that's
>because this is a very special case.
It's *slightly* less objectionable here than as a matter of routine, but it
still stuck in my craw.
>>I also think that we'll need some justification if the Defiant is sticking
>>around for the foreseeable future, as has been stated in the popular press.
>>It makes perfect sense to have the Defiant around for *this* mission, but
>>once it's over, I can't quite see Starfleet Command saying "nah, keep it" --
>>or for that matter, Sisko *wanting* to use it for joyrides.
>If the Dominion sticks around, that would be a good reason for keeping it,
>although not for using it for joyrides.
Granted. As I said, all we need is some justification -- the continued
threat of the Dominion would certainly qualify.
>>-- The Founders are only a legend. Changelings are only a legend -- or were
>>until now. Are the two legends of the same beings? I truly hope not -- way
>>too contrived. (On the other hand, if they're *not*, then Odo's story may
>>get short shrift, and I don't want _that_, either. Ugh.)
>If the changelings are the founders, that would give a good answer to your
>first question.
It'd be an answer -- not a good one, IMO.
>Hey, what about the change with Sisko? Oops did I delete that paragraph by
>accident?
No, because it didn't strike me as *that* much of a change, to be honest.
Then again, I liked Sisko from day one...
>In the real-world universe, it's clear that the producers are trying to make
>Sisko more of a hero. He had much more dramatic dialogue and more dramatic
>poses in front of the camera. Well, part of that seemed awkward because it's
>different than what we've become accustomed to -- but if they continue this
>new approach throughout the season, I think I could really get used to it.
For the most part, yes, though I thought his "and if the station falls,
then BAJOR falls!" speech fell pretty flat.
>Something I noticed is that they all took variations of Odo's basic form, even
>though I was under the impression that he learned that form and that it's not
>his natural form. Two possible explanations: 1) They did it to communicate
>with him (and there was a pause after they saw him, as if they were quickly
>deciding how to mimic his form), or 2) When Odo was trying to learn to look
>human, he was actually learning to take on some sort of natural form for his
>species.
I'd go with option (1) myself. It makes sense to me.
>>That's about it. I'm reserving judgement on DS9's new direction until I see
>>how much of it sticks around and how well everyone settles into it. If the
>>changes we're seeing can be (1) toned down a bit, and (2) justified, then I
>>think everything will turn out fine, and DS9 can continue the run of quality
>>it had for much of last season.
>Yeah, I think I agree with you on this. Except I'm more optimistic that
>they'll be justified.
I'm probably still stewing over Fields' ouster. Time will tell.
>>OVERALL: Call it a 6.5, providing part 2 doesn't change my opinions of this
>>setup drastically.
>Wow, that's harsh. I'd put this in the 8 or 9 range (multiplying my 0 through
>5 scale by two...)
>Although it's hard to judge until we see how this is resolved.
Very true. You know how fluid my ratings get in the final analysis, after
all. :-)
Tim Lynch
Timothy W. Lynch
>In article <36kvm9$6...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
>Timothy W. Lynch <tly...@juliet.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>WARNING: This review contains spoiler information regarding DS9's third
>>season premiere, "The Search, Part I". If you haven't seen the show and
>>don't want information about it, don't read any further.
>>Slapping everyone onto the Defiant simply reeked of setup.
> It's just like TOS where Kirk always had to take his four top officers
>into every dangerous situation.
Yep, and I thought it was dumb then, too. :-)
>And Starfleet should've provided the defiant
>with a full crew, already familiar with the ship and it's operation.
Very strongly agreed.
>>-- A word about the cloaking device. One of my officemates wondered why they
>>weren't using the phased-cloak we saw in "The Pegasus" -- and if he's
>>wondering it, I'm sure others are as well. :-) My take is this: the
>>Defiant certainly wouldn't have been designed with one originally, since the
>>technology wasn't known at the time. After that, the Feds couldn't very well
>>tell the Romulans "no thanks on the cloaking device; we've got one already,
>>you see, it's very nice...". (This assumes that the Romulans knew about the
>>Defiant years ago, true, but I think it makes sense. It also leaves the
>>whole issue of the morality of the phased-cloak out of it, which suits me
>>fine right at the moment.)
> You're overlooking the enourmous implications of a Federation-
>Romulan alliance. If I were the federation, I'd call up the Romulans,
>give them the scoop on the Dominion, and ask "So, we were, uh, wondering
>if we might, ah, .... borrow a cloaking device?". Having the Romulans in
>on the mission to the founders is probably more important than usin a
>homegrown cloaking device. Building trust and cooperation with the Romulans
>would be an immense, long-term asset for the Federation, far outweighing
>a cloaking device which only lasted half the episode anyway!
*Excellent* point. I hadn't really considered that. There are a lot of
strong political advantages to be had here as well.
>>OVERALL: Call it a 6.5, providing part 2 doesn't change my opinions of this
>>setup drastically.
> If you think this episode is a 6.5, then you're saying it's below
>average for DS9.
I'm not entirely sure that that's an incorrect assessment.
Tim Lynch
Timothy W. Lynch
Spoilers for part 1 of "The Search" ahead:
>I was under the impression that the Defiant was brand new, and since the
>Pegasus had been built with the phase cloak before Riker ever even came
>on board the Enterprise it would seem that the Federation had the
>knowledge but just didn't do it, or BAD WRITING. I choose BAD WRITING
I'm afraid you're under a bad impression. The Defiant is four years or
so old, built for the Borg threat.
As for the "but the Pegasus had it" -- yes. And until last year, the Pegasus
was considered dispersed into its component atoms because of that device.
That alone makes for a good argument *against* using it.
Tim Lynch
no one of consequence
]Yes, they did all have phasers. Only the Romulan was far enough away from the
]boarding party that she had time to draw. Frankly, I would have liked it if
]they had made the Romulan kick a few more butts before she got taken down. And
]also if she had been vaporizing people instead of stunning them. It would have
]given her more of a military character.
Maybe she had her disruptor on a setting that just fries the nerves of a
target since the vaporizing setting could breach the hull or something..
^_^;;
--
|Patrick Chester (aka: claypigeon, Sinapus) wol...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu|
|Member Lovely Angels Fan Club/Fire Support Team/Cleanup Crew |
|"Not like us? You will *BECOME* us!"- Jha'Dur, "Deathwalker" Babylon-5 |
|Wittier remarks always come to mind just after sending your article....|
Thor Iverson
>Before, we had tension between characters at times. Great. Now, we get
>people shouting at each other and virtually no one getting along.
Hyperbole. Remove Odo, and the only actual shouting was Kira/Sisko,
which is not exactly a new development. Besides, isn't it logical
that, after so much development toward a "kinder, gentler" Kira that
she should experience a few relapses?
>Before, Odo had a dark side. Now, he's kidnapping people and acting as
>though he's in a hormone-induced rage.
Primal compulsions. Perhaps he's descending from lemmings.
>While the Defiant itself makes sense, though, I don't see the logic in having
>Sisko and the rest of the crew run it.
Well, stepping "outside" for a moment, it's obviously more
cost-efficient. But I wouldn't be surprised if the presence of the
Defiant and Sisko's command of same creates a conflict between a power-
hungry Starfleet officer and Sisko at some future date. Consider: up
to this point, DS9 has been a posting no one (except Bashir)
particularly wants. It's in the middle of nowhere, and there's not much
glory to be had by just sitting there and mediating agriculture summits.
But with a big warship, and the wormhole--you have a potential gold mine
for exploration/exploitation of the Gamma Quadrant. And I'm sure
someone will take notice sooner or later.
In addition, it also helps eliminate one of the glaring plot holes of
the first two seasons--the lack of defenses at DS9. With the double
threat of the Cardassians and unknown assailants from the Gamma
Quadrant, it was simply silly to have a station that couldn't defend
itself against anything more than a few large moths.
>but taking all of them (even if Odo had to be "invited" through a side
>entrance) goes well beyond the absurd.
Well, of course. And in the future, they can use it the same way they
used Picard's ready room--by choosing different crew, the writers can
set up one-on-one interactions between Sisko and character X, much the
same way they set up those scenes for Picard and character X, to exploit
the acting talent of their star.
>It makes perfect sense to have the Defiant around for *this* mission, but
>once it's over, I can't quite see Starfleet Command saying "nah, keep it" --
>or for that matter, Sisko *wanting* to use it for joyrides.
See the defense issue above. The largely immobile station needs some
defenses. Add to the Dominion and the Cardassians a cranky religious
leader on Bajor, and you've got yourself three good reasons to have
the Big Guns at hand.
>-- The Founders are only a legend. Changelings are only a legend -- or were
>until now. Are the two legends of the same beings? I truly hope not -- way
>too contrived. (On the other hand, if they're *not*, then Odo's story may
>get short shrift, and I don't want _that_, either. Ugh.)
I don't think it's that contrived--and we had a bit of a spoiler on this
when we were told that we'd be "surprised" when we found out who the
Founders were. It's possible that Odo's people _were_ the Founders,
and have evolved...or that the Founders were a splinter group...or that
there is something more nefarious going on. By leaving Odo as the only
member of his race, the writers merely copied the unique nature of Data
(ignore Lore for a moment). Now they've added a (potentially powerful)
background for him--which opens up all sorts of interesting
characterization possibilities as Odo sorts out his loyalties. I can
even see an extended storyline in which Odo takes a leave of absence
(given the presence of Starfleet security on the station) similar to
Worf's resignation in _Redemption_, though I have some doubt that Trek
has the balls to do something so ambitious.
>Other than that, though, the battles were fun, and the tension scene
>with "have we been discovered?" was one of the better tactical
>sequences I've seen in Trek.
...and the final takeover scene was also quite powerful. Trek battles
have always been way too clean, way too neat and tidy. With the
destruction of the starship last season and the horrible fight for the
Defiant, it seems that at least a _few_ directors have learned to direct
a realistic battle sequence without relying on expensive special
effects.
>-- An interesting (and undoubtedly wrong) theory about Odo's folk: We saw
>them all emerging from the same location, and only one spoke. Suppose that
>they're all actually one being? Might Odo have been a Bit'o'Changeling sent
>out to explore, and accidentally have picked up more free will that was
>intended? [This one's also Lisa's idea; maybe she ought to help me *write*
>the reviews from now on...:-) ]
The possibility that occured to me was that the shapeshifters simply
found communal existence more appealing. Think of the evolutionary and
mental advantages to being able to "mix" freely like that. One quibble,
though--I think the shapeshifters _should_ have all appeared as
identical Odo or Kira--after all, _they_ shouldn't have had any other
models to go on when assuming a "form."
>OVERALL: Call it a 6.5, providing part 2 doesn't change my opinions of this
>setup drastically.
Way too low. 9, at least.
>NEXT WEEK:
>Wait a sec. We must've missed something here...
Well, we would have...IF SOME PEOPLE WOULD PROPERLY PROTECT THEIR
SPOLIERS!!! (grumble) Well, despite next week's secret being ruined
for me, I'll attempt to enjoy it anyway. But it doesn't look promising.
Thor Iverson tive...@lynx.dac.neu.edu
Author, Led Zeppelin FAQL I don't _have_ "humble opinions"...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
_Entertainment Weekly_ is _not_ allowed to reprint anything I've written.
Marguerite Petersen
>season premiere, "The Search, Part I". If you haven't seen the show and
>don't want information about it, don't read any further.
>In brief: well, not bad, but lots of causes for concern about DS9's
>much-touted new direction.
>First, a change from the old review style. I had piles of people last year
>asking me to please include some sort of summary to help them remember which
>episode I was even talking about. Far be it from me to refuse such
>stout-hearted pleas :-), so from now on I'll include a one or two sentence
>blurb before going on to the review proper. So, onwards...
>
>------
>Brief Summary:
>
>Sisko and the DS9 crew take a new ship, the Defiant, into the Gamma Quadrant
>to search for the Founders, legendary leaders of the Dominion.
What's the matter Tim, couldn't you get it any briefer than that? :-)
>On the surface, there's a fair bit to like about part one of "The Search".
>Much of the dialogue was snappy, the looming threat of the Dominion was very
>real, and there was enough action to satisfy most fans. Some of my students
>have been singing the praises of the show to me all week, using such
>justifications as "didja seen the GUNS on the Defiant?" and "what could be
>better than Odo's race?". As a tool to draw people in, then, "The Search" is
>working beautifully.
Agreed, although I almost felt as if there was *too* much being
introduced at once. I honestly felt a bit overwhelmed.
>Digging deeper, though, I'm worried -- and I wonder if DS9 has altered itself
>to its own detriment over the season break.
>
>While I'll admit that my main fondness in DS9 stories is "political" stories
>such as "Duet" and the opening trilogy from last season, some of DS9's core
>strengths are in its character interactions. In particular, DS9 has broken
>with Trek tradition (at least current Trek tradition) in dealing with
>characters who (a) don't have to like each other, and (b) can have dark sides
>[Odo, in particular, was shown to have a beaut last year].
Again agreed. I rather enjoy seeing characters that are not completely
perfect and have some real character flaws or if not flawed, then at
least not always getting along with everyone else.
>Given these strengths, then, I almost wonder if the staff didn't fall prey to
>the fallacy of "if some is good, then more must be even better". Consider
>this:
>
>Before, Odo had a dark side. Now, he's kidnapping people and acting as
>though he's in a hormone-induced rage.
This bothered me as well. In particular Odo's growling at Quark. It
wasn't as if Odo hadn't had plenty of other opportunities to be this
upset with Quark before. But he never was. He had a few satirical
comments to make but never outright snarling. That bothered me a lot.
>Neither one of these particularly appeals to me, I'm afraid, and I'm a little
>concerned that it may be a harbinger of times to come. Time will tell, of
>course.
I keep hoping that Odo's change in his behavior was only a setup to
show some inner stress that he was feeling and isn't going to be a
major change in the character. I would be annoyed if he stays this
way.
>While the Defiant itself makes sense, though, I don't see the logic in having
>Sisko and the rest of the crew run it. I can see Sisko perhaps using it for
>this one mission, and taking *some* of the regular station crew with him --
>but taking all of them (even if Odo had to be "invited" through a side
>entrance) goes well beyond the absurd. Suppose the Jem'Hadar launch an
>invasion while the Defiant is on a wild goose chase. The station could use
>some strong defenses then -- so *who's* left to run them?
This also bothered me although I guess it is possible that there are
other qualified personnel that were left in charge. However, we have
never seen them before so this seemed wrong.
>On to some other issues. I'm also a little bit concerned about this "Odo
>finds his people" plot. While we got a nice sense of wonder, and I *am*
>curious about where it's all going to lead, I'm worried by the following:
>
>-- Why is Odo being affected *now*? He's been in the Gamma Quadrant before,
>on at least one occasion ("Shadowplay") that I can remember, and never felt
>any ill effects in the past. Is it time for him to swim upstream to spawn?
>Is he being "recalled" by his people? As long as we get *some* explanation,
>I'll be happy, but if it's not forthcoming I'll be more than a little
>annoyed.
Yes, I will be too. I sincerely hope they come up with some kind of
valid explanation for his actions *now*.
>I particularly liked seeing Sisko's scenes with Jake and Dax. In addition to
>seeing a good sense of time passing, the Sisko/Jake scene just felt utterly
>*right* in terms of the two characters involved. Jake's still a realistic
>kid (though I think it'd have been better if his "last Thursday" comment
>*hadn't* had a real reason :-) ), and Sisko's sudden realization that he
>cares enough to call "this Cardassian monstrosity" home hit hard. It may
>also have a double meaning -- with TNG gone, DS9 as a series *has* to be home
>for diehard fans on some level. Given that Ron Moore, who wrote the script,
>just came to the series *from* TNG, I think it's worth considering.
Yes, this thought came to mind for me as well. DS9 *is* our ownly
home. At least for now. And I have to admit that I also felt
comfortable returning to the station. :-)
>Then, of course, we come to the action sequences. Crotchety though I may be
>this week, they were damned fun. :-) I do have one nit, though -- why was
>T'Rul the only one carrying a sidearm? I can't imagine that it would have
>done more than slightly delay the Jem'Hadar overrunning the ship, and it
>would certainly have made sense. Other than that, though, the battles were
>fun, and the tension scene with "have we been discovered?" was one of the
>better tactical sequences I've seen in Trek. (And my students had a point;
>those weapons on the Defiant *are* pretty neat-looking. ;-) )
I enjoyed these scenes as well. They were tense and well done, IMHO.
Perhaps the reason the only one wearing a sidearm was a Romulan was to
emphasize a major difference between the Romulan representative and the
rest of the crew? After all, the sidearm would also be handy if the
Federation members turned hostile. :-)
>The cliffhanger was pretty neatly set up, in that the characters have been
>broken up *very* smartly by the end. Quark is off hanging around with
>Ornithar, having shown the intelligence to want _off_ the ship as quickly as
>possible; Dax and O'Brien are imprisoned someplace; Kira and Odo are on
>Odo's world; and we have no idea where Sisko and Bashir are going to be.
>That's a lot of balls in the air; I hope they don't all come crashing down.
I do too. :-)
>So, to wrap up:
>
>OVERALL: Call it a 6.5, providing part 2 doesn't change my opinions of this
>setup drastically.
I would give it a 7.5.
>This article is explicitly prohibited from being used in any off-net
>compilation without due attribution and *express written consent of the
>author*. Walnut Creek and other CD-ROM distributors, take note.
Smart move, Tim. :-)
Marg
--
"Insufficient facts always invites danger, Captain."-Spock in Space Seed
Member PSEB Official Sonneteer/Keeper of the Captain's Log JLP SoL
aka Kathleen O'Toole, Poet, Author
Vikas Anirudha Aggarwal
What do you mean??
Daniel Harrison
Yeah, so the Defiant's weapons were cool, and managed to blow one
enemy ship away. That's one more than the Excelsior managed to do, but
it certainly didn't live up to the pre-battle hype.
In short, I found the idea that the Dominion has so much better battle
technology than our side to be another version of "Look, the Borg can
have their way with us, Omygod." That the Defiant was detected, attacked
by a force of at least three ships, disabled immediately, and boarded easily.
This hardly bodes well for the rest of the alpha quadrant. I would have
been much more satisfied if the Defiant had put up a really good fight and
had actually bloodied the noses of the Jem'hadar.
right now, it's the Jem'hadar reprising the role of the Borg, and no doubt
our side will find some chink in their armor and save the day--because
that's exactly how the Borg were handled.
Two seasons from now, we'll probably see some new bad guys whose weaponry
beats everything we have (including a new ship that we built to defend
ourselves against the Jem'hadar); a starship will explode, and things will
look dire......
It goes on and on.......
--
Daniel Harrison
hr...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
University of Rochester
just another theatre geek
Vikas Anirudha Aggarwal <vik...@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> wrote:
>In article <36p978$d...@nntp1.u.washington.edu> gwan...@u.washington.edu (just another theatre geek) writes:
>>>Vikas Anirudha Aggarwal (vik...@flagstaff.princeton.edu) wrote:
>>>They have to know. Didn't the Enterprise decloak with the Romulan ship
>>>right there? (after getting the device from teh Pegasus?)
>> Piece of the puzzle, staring you right in the face.
Politcal move.
just another theatre geek
>>>WARNING: This review contains spoiler information regarding DS9's third
>>>season premiere, "The Search, Part I".
>> It's just like TOS where Kirk always had to take his four top officers
>>into every dangerous situation.
>Yep, and I thought it was dumb then, too. :-)
Same here. There's AMPLE justification to keep the Defiant around
(and there's even more justification for Starfleet to UPGRADE DS9's
defenses; I can't believe that a fixed emplacement can't outgun a mobile
fleet), but none for deploying the command team to the ship.
>> You're overlooking the enourmous implications of a Federation-
>>Romulan alliance. If I were the federation, I'd call up the Romulans,
>>give them the scoop on the Dominion, and ask "So, we were, uh, wondering
>>if we might, ah, .... borrow a cloaking device?". Having the Romulans in
>>on the mission to the founders is probably more important than usin a
>>homegrown cloaking device. Building trust and cooperation with the Romulans
>>would be an immense, long-term asset for the Federation, far outweighing
>>a cloaking device which only lasted half the episode anyway!
>*Excellent* point. I hadn't really considered that. There are a lot of
>strong political advantages to be had here as well.
Exactly (not to mention the tactical and strategic advantages).
They were so obvious that it's disheartening to see so few people think
of it and so few people to think they are worth much...
Todd Horowitz
just another theatre geek <gwan...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>In article <36q9be$i...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
>Timothy W. Lynch <tly...@juliet.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>to...@garnet.berkeley.edu (Todd Horowitz) writes:
>(and there's even more justification for Starfleet to UPGRADE DS9's
>defenses; I can't believe that a fixed emplacement can't outgun a mobile
>fleet)
This is another good point. It was one thing when DS9's mission was
just to help get the Bajorans on their feet and into the Federation, but by
this point Starfleet should've put some resources into upgrading the
station's capabilities.
That should've been STarfleet's first response to the Dominion threat:
give DS9 the defenses of a starbase.
-todd
Tae-hyun B. Chung
Marguerite Petersen <pet...@CSOS.ORST.EDU> wrote:
}In article <36kvm9$6...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
}Timothy W. Lynch <tly...@juliet.caltech.edu> wrote:
}>WARNING: This review contains spoiler information regarding DS9's third
}>season premiere, "The Search, Part I". If you haven't seen the show and
}>don't want information about it, don't read any further.
}>concerned that it may be a harbinger of times to come. Time will tell, of
}>course.
}
}I keep hoping that Odo's change in his behavior was only a setup to
}show some inner stress that he was feeling and isn't going to be a
}major change in the character. I would be annoyed if he stays this
}way.
After watching The Search Part II last night, I think this comment
hit the nail on the head. IMHO, Part II was an Odo episode above all
else. It was about Odo discovering and exploring himself. The last
bit of the dialogue between Odo and the female shapeshifter, for me,
was the most important bit. It went something like "I want justice."
"No, you want order." "Imposing order is not the way to go about
doing it." (I don't have the tape handy.) I'm not sure how much
Odo realized the truth of the female shapeshifter's statement or how
much the writers will make of this in the future. But as she stated,
Odo does want to impose his kind of order in DS9. He does not like
the Starfleet security regulations, he wants Sisko to give him more
leeway in investigating, and he probably wants to break a few fundamental
rights in order to do his job. He says he is doing so in the name
of justice. But what Odo is doing on the station is a reflection
of what his race is doing in the Gamma Quadrant.
What will this mean for the future episodes? Instead of
taking the easy way out (either completely disregarding the importance
of this conversation or Odo following every Starfleet regulation), I
hope this episode gives an additional dimension to Odo's character,
just as all the Data episodes in TNG gave Data a more complex character.
And finally, I liked the continuity of the stone tower in
the arboritum. So what really was the planet in the original episode?
A failed shapeshifter colony?
}
T. H. Brian Chung | Happiness is...
tb...@columbia.edu | "Tea, Earl Grey, hot."
124 LaSalle Street, 5-C |
New York, NY 10027 |
Mathew Englander
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mathew Englander mat...@unixg.ubc.ca
_____________________________________________________________________________
Frank Mitchell
(Vikas Anirudha Aggarwal) writes:
> After the Pegasus, I was under the impression that the Federation
> and the Romulans would have had some sort of dialogue re the device,
> and therefore it would be obvious that the Federation had been
> secretly developing one. Whether the Romulans actually knew that
> it was a _phased_ cloak is a different matter. However when it
> comes to the security of the defiant, it would be in the best interest
> of the Federation (and the Romulans) to use the phasing cloak.
If the Feds didn't have a phased cloak, the Enterprise could not have escaped
the interior of an asteroid. The Romulans have to at least strongly suspect.
Of course, as "The Pegasus" showed, their prototype phased cloak wasn't too
stable. Given the other problems with the Defiant, adding an extremely
unstable device would have been sure disaster. And, as another poster pointed
out, given the Federation's penchant for bonehead treaties, it might have
decided to suspend all phased cloak development because the Romulans might get
in a snit, and/or it just wasn't nice.
Then again, maybe the writers forgot about phased cloaks ...
--
Frank Mitchell
email(work): fr...@fnbc.com (NeXTmail) (home): fr...@gagme.wwa.com
"May Evil beware, and may Good dress warmly and eat plenty of fresh
vegetables." -- The Tick
Blanche Cohen
leaving Nog, Jake and the odd ensign or two to run DS9. But then, I also
understand the necessity of getting the entire cast involved with the season
opener. One is stupid, the other a fact of life. Tim gives the episode a 6.5,
but my rating is lower, about 5.5 or 6.0.
One of the attractions of DS9 to me is the willingness to explore rather
complicated issues that the US news outlets can't or won't because they don't
fit into a 45 second sound bite. I LIKE the investigations of the complex
problems of Bajor - much the same as any emerging country that is fighting to
compete in the current state of the world. Add to this a rather tenuous
treaty with the Cardassians, and I'm happy with the dramatic tension just the
way it is.
Personally, I think the addition of the Dominion, et al (isn't one of
Paramount's amusement parks named the Dominion? <g>) adds too much to keep
track of, and really is a detriment to the "history" that has been
developed during the past two years.
Most of us can be considered experts in television for no other reason than
we've grown up with it. I think it's safe to say that most people here
have watched more TV than any other activity in their life, except sleeping.
(This is NOT an indictment, just an observation). One of MY cardinal rules
about tv is that it must attract my attention. This is also true of any
film, book or play, but that's another newsgroup...
The characters must intrigue me, doesn't matter if they are the good guys or
the villains. In the Search-1, I didn't really care what happens to these
people. And I hate to admit it - they have been visiting my home for two
years, you'd think I'd be more hospitable....Anyway, I wasn't drawn into
the story the way I'd hoped/anticipated/wished. I'm looking forward to the
Swiss Family Odo story, but not the rest of it.
I enjoyed the Sisko/Jake scene more than the rest of the episode - it was
the only time I felt "connected" to the characters. And I did not like the
camera work during the battle on the Defiant. I understand the dramatic
necessity of certain things, but the lighting was too dark, the smoke more
than annoying, and MTV-camera destroyed (for me) any immediacy of battle or
danger.
One other "throw-away" scene - went by real fast, only caught it when I watched
the tape again...At the end, Odo, the morph and Kira (behind Odo) are in the
scene, Odo has this somewhat silly grin on his face - Kira is smiling at Odo
they was a parent would smile at a child opening birthday presents. A classic
example of the relationship between the two - hope it is a portent of things
in the future.
I know I'm going to miss Peter Allen Fields....(*sniff*)
--
bc
"It might be interesting to explore useless for a while" [DS9]
"Chocolate is a serious business" [TNG]
Martin H Duke
Daniel Harrison <hr...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> wrote:
>Minor spoilers about the Defiant in "The Search"
>technology than our side to be another version of "Look, the Borg can
>have their way with us, Omygod." That the Defiant was detected, attacked
>by a force of at least three ships, disabled immediately, and boarded easily.
>This hardly bodes well for the rest of the alpha quadrant. I would have
>been much more satisfied if the Defiant had put up a really good fight and
>had actually bloodied the noses of the Jem'hadar.
>Daniel Harrison
I've really had enough of this opinion. Where are people getting the idea
that the Defiant performed badly? It was fired on by THREE ships WITH
ITS SHIELDS DOWN, survived long enough to turn around, fire a volley, continue
to take abuse, and then be boarded. It's quite survivable, and has a potent
offensive array. Once they stop mucking around with the cloaking device,
it should be an even fight.
And those Cardassians had better look out.
-Martin Duke
Duane Takamine
Martin H Duke <pat...@ATHENA.MIT.EDU> wrote:
>In article <1994Oct4.1...@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>,
>Daniel Harrison <hr...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> wrote:
>>been much more satisfied if the Defiant had put up a really good fight and
>>had actually bloodied the noses of the Jem'hadar.
>
>
> I've really had enough of this opinion. Where are people getting the idea
>that the Defiant performed badly? It was fired on by THREE ships WITH
>ITS SHIELDS DOWN, survived long enough to turn around, fire a volley, continue
>to take abuse, and then be boarded. It's quite survivable, and has a potent
>offensive array. Once they stop mucking around with the cloaking device,
>it should be an even fight.
Once they give the ship to someone with any sense of tactics, you
mean. I agree that the defiant did very well all things considered. It
appears that they took several direct hits by the same weapon the
Jem'Hadar used just one blast of to obliterate the Odyssey's port warp
nacelle. One volley of their phaser cannons blew up a Jem'Hadar ship.
Had the Defiant simply stood there and fought, it might have won the
entire battle, 3 more Jem'Hadar ships notwithstanding.
Had the Defiant been built "right" (meaning, had the problems
briefly mentioned by Sisko not been there) the Defiant might now be
the most powerful warship on either side of the wormhole. And it
certainly wasn't the best the Alpha Quadrant could field, given a
really imminent threat. As mentioned previously, a combined Alpha
quadrant could field Defiant class starships with things like
phasing cloaks. Other interesting weapons possibilities include the
soliton warp field wave, the ever-present nanites (maybe the nanites
consider the Dominion a threat, too :-) ), and even the subspace bubbles
which were converted into weapons in _Vendetta_.
The question is a matter of getting the stuff deployed against
the Dominion.
> And those Cardassians had better look out.
>
The Cardassians were already having trouble with Captain Maxwell's
Nebula class starship (the Phoenix). The Defiant might as well be the
Borg to them.
Duane
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Duane Takamine du...@shell.portal.com
Island CD Creations [a divison of Madd Hacker Productions]
"We work for pizza and beer."
Secret Squirrel
appears that Sisko fires a volley of photon torpedoes at the
entrance to the wormhole. Did it look that way to anyone else?
John Pietrzak
>In article <1994Oct4.1...@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>,
>Daniel Harrison <hr...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> wrote:
>>Minor spoilers about the Defiant in "The Search"
>>I would have been much more satisfied if the Defiant had put up a
>>really good fight and had actually bloodied the noses of the Jem'hadar.
> I've really had enough of this opinion. Where are people getting the idea
>that the Defiant performed badly? It was fired on by THREE ships WITH
>ITS SHIELDS DOWN, survived long enough to turn around, fire a volley, continue
>to take abuse, and then be boarded.
The Defiant, a top-of-the-line Fed ship with power and weapons to burn,
took on what was apparently a group of 3 run-of-the-mill Jem'hadar ships
on patrol, and managed to do better than a Galaxy-class ship against them.
So what? Presumably, the Jem'hadar have some top-of-the-line ships of
their own; if their battle fleet is ever seen, it would be likely to
overwhelm anything available in the Alpha quadrant. Heck, so long as
there are always 3 Jem'hadar patrol ships to each Fed ship (which would
seem possible), there isn't much of a chance against them.
John
Ron C. Carman
>WARNING: This review contains spoiler information regarding DS9's third
>season premiere, "The Search, Part I". If you haven't seen the show and
>don't want information about it, don't read any further.
>On the surface, there's a fair bit to like about part one of "The Search".
>Much of the dialogue was snappy, the looming threat of the Dominion was very
>real, and there was enough action to satisfy most fans. Some of my students
>have been singing the praises of the show to me all week, using such
>justifications as "didja seen the GUNS on the Defiant?" and "what could be
>better than Odo's race?". As a tool to draw people in, then, "The Search" is
>working beautifully.
>Digging deeper, though, I'm worried -- and I wonder if DS9 has altered itself
>to its own detriment over the season break.
The popular press has apparently made a point of telling people (and I've
had people tell me time and again) that DSN is going to be making some big
changes this season. Supposedly, the station will now have it's own battle-
wagon, with which they will go out to do battle and explore the Gamma
quadrant. DSN allegedly hasn't met its ratings expectations (from what I've
seen, that's a complete falsehood). If this comes to pass, I will definitely
take a pass on watching any more Deep Space Nine.
Ron Carman
--
| Ron C. Carman || That's the trouble with feeling as if you're |
| rcca...@netcom.com || on top of the world. It's always a sure sign |
| rcca...@ukpr.uky.edu || you and it are about to switch places. |
| U.S. SnailMAIL: P.O. Box 24352 Lexington, KY 40524-4352 |
Martin H Duke
John Pietrzak <piet...@cecer.army.mil> wrote:
>The Defiant, a top-of-the-line Fed ship with power and weapons to burn,
>took on what was apparently a group of 3 run-of-the-mill Jem'hadar ships
>on patrol, and managed to do better than a Galaxy-class ship against them.
>So what? Presumably, the Jem'hadar have some top-of-the-line ships of
>their own; if their battle fleet is ever seen, it would be likely to
>overwhelm anything available in the Alpha quadrant. Heck, so long as
>there are always 3 Jem'hadar patrol ships to each Fed ship (which would
>seem possible), there isn't much of a chance against them.
>John
No, no, no, you're still forgetting the surprise factor. The Jem'Hadar
got a rear shot with three ships on a target with its shields down. Star
Trek has established several times over that a ship without shields is
toast. In a fair fight, with the Defiant able to engage with all its
weapons at full power, I'm sure it would acquit itself quite well.
To say otherwise is to say something like "Since the US Navy did so poorly
on just a few planes at Pearl Harbor, it has no chance against a complete
Japanese battle fleet."
-Martin Duke
John Pietrzak
>John Pietrzak <piet...@cecer.army.mil> wrote:
>
>>Presumably, the Jem'hadar have some top-of-the-line ships of
>>their own; if their battle fleet is ever seen, it would be likely to
>>overwhelm anything available in the Alpha quadrant. Heck, so long as
>>there are always 3 Jem'hadar patrol ships to each Fed ship (which would
>>seem possible), there isn't much of a chance against them.
>
>got a rear shot with three ships on a target with its shields down. Star
>Trek has established several times over that a ship without shields is
>toast. In a fair fight, with the Defiant able to engage with all its
>weapons at full power, I'm sure it would acquit itself quite well.
>
> To say otherwise is to say something like "Since the US Navy did so poorly
>on just a few planes at Pearl Harbor, it has no chance against a complete
>Japanese battle fleet."
Ahh, but here's the problem: with the Defiant, we've found a type of
weapon which can do damage to a Jem'hadar ship, but we still don't have
shields to deal with their weapons. In this type of situation, a large
fleet of small ships has a definite advantage over a small fleet of large
ships, as individual ships are now much more fragile.
My point is that you aren't likely to see a "fair fight"; the Jem'hadar
have shown a pattern of patrolling in groups of small ships, whereas the
Federation has built up a system of patrolling in large individual ships.
Until they find a new shield technology, the Feds are going to be at a
significant disadvantage.
On the other hand, the Klingons could probably give them a run for their
money -- small, extremely maneuverable ships with cloaking devices and
crews that know how to use them!
John
Arnold Chu
: My point is that you aren't likely to see a "fair fight"; the Jem'hadar
: have shown a pattern of patrolling in groups of small ships, whereas the
: Federation has built up a system of patrolling in large individual ships.
: Until they find a new shield technology, the Feds are going to be at a
: significant disadvantage.
It would help if they staffed it with an experienced Star Ship crew!
Some, like the doctor, is completely green. Others have not worked
together on ship before. What would one expect in a battle situation?
In any case, their goal was to contact the Founders, not to fight the
Jem H'Dar. So it's logical to run rather than fight if possible.
Regards,
A. Chu
-------------------------
All opinions are my own. No one else, including my employer is responsible
for them in any way.
John Pietrzak
>John Pietrzak (piet...@cecer.army.mil) wrote:
>
>: My point is that you aren't likely to see a "fair fight"; the Jem'hadar
>: have shown a pattern of patrolling in groups of small ships, whereas the
>: Federation has built up a system of patrolling in large individual ships.
>: Until they find a new shield technology, the Feds are going to be at a
>: significant disadvantage.
>
>It would help if they staffed it with an experienced Star Ship crew!
>Some, like the doctor, is completely green. Others have not worked
>together on ship before. What would one expect in a battle situation?
>In any case, their goal was to contact the Founders, not to fight the
>Jem H'Dar. So it's logical to run rather than fight if possible.
Well, that's not exactly the point I was raising. I was just saying that
Star Fleet rarely uses actual fleets, rather they send single ships around.
In a situation where armor is valuable (i.e., the Trek "shields") this is
logical, because bigger ships generally can hold more armor and thus survive
greater punishment. However, if armor is useless (as against Jem'hadar
weaponry), you want to split up your forces, so that when one gets hit
the others can continue the fight. Aircraft carriers would never have
become so important if the aircraft didn't have weaponry that could punch
through any amount of armor.
Against a foe like the Jem'hadar, small expendable forces have a
significant advantage over large, irreplaceable ones. (A Galaxy-class
starship, carrying a large number of the finest crew in the fleet,
should be an expensive thing to lose!)
John