LSJ:? Numerous Questions

[Sintax]

1. What if a vampire attempts to Govern the Unaligned to bleed at +2, then
untaps and uses another GtU to add free blood, this legit?

2. What about combat cards? Same deal? Wolf's Claws(?) for maneuver, then WC
for aggravated damage?

3. When do I play Rat's Warning? before or after the combat?

4. In a vote that says 'all kindred', can I vote with my priscus? (or other
sabbat vamp?) Does an antitribu count as a member of the original clan for
CBoon, or anything else?

5. Is Rotchreck playable when a vamp strikes with WC or CoD? (I read the
clarification, thus my confusion)

Lead us through the Darkness...

[LSJ]

"Sintax" <pchan...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 1. What if a vampire attempts to Govern the Unaligned to bleed at +2, then
> untaps and uses another GtU to add free blood, this legit?

If you're using the DCI tourney rules, no.
Otherwise, it is legal.

> 2. What about combat cards? Same deal? Wolf's Claws(?) for maneuver, then WC
> for aggravated damage?

Not the same deal. You're welcome to use the same combat card as often as
you like during a single combat, unless card text specifies otherwise.

> 3. When do I play Rat's Warning? before or after the combat?

? Before.
If you mean "Cat's Guidance (inferior)", then the answer is still: before.

> 4. In a vote that says 'all kindred', can I vote with my priscus? (or other
> sabbat vamp?) Does an antitribu count as a member of the original clan for
> CBoon, or anything else?

Yes. No ("X Antitribu" *is* the original clan for the vampires in
question)

> 5. Is Rotchreck playable when a vamp strikes with WC or CoD? (I read the
> clarification, thus my confusion)

Yes.

--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com)
Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
(*) - Subject to review by Rules Team

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[James Coupe]

In article <667fn3$9...@ecuador.earthlink.net>, Sintax
<pchan...@earthlink.net> writes

>1. What if a vampire attempts to Govern the Unaligned to bleed at +2, then
>untaps and uses another GtU to add free blood, this legit?
>

Dunno. It's NRA and I'm beyond trying to understand that.

>2. What about combat cards? Same deal? Wolf's Claws(?) for maneuver, then WC
>for aggravated damage?

Perfectly legal. If both of you were playing Protean decks, you could
both keep cancelling each others Form of the Ghost with your form of the
Ghost until the cows come home. No rule about not playing two combat
cards the same - just some of them aren't possible - like strikes (can't
play two strikes at once, can't have more than one source of additional
strikes).

>
>3. When do I play Rat's Warning? before or after the combat?
>

That one goes before the combat. It doesn't even have to block after it
plays it. Since you play it when the bleed is declared, you have to
play it before blocks.

>4. In a vote that says 'all kindred', can I vote with my priscus? (or other
>sabbat vamp?) Does an antitribu count as a member of the original clan for
>CBoon, or anything else?

Yes, priscus can vote. Yes other Sabbat vamps can vote. Unless they
play a Closed Session which only lets Camarilla.

No, antitribu count as a separate clan. You can tap them all with
ConCondem, gain pool for them with ConBoon and so on but you can't tap
all the, say, Nosferatu *and* Nosferatu Antitribu with one ConCondem.
Antitribu = completely and entirely separate clan to non-Antitribu.

>
>5. Is Rotchreck playable when a vamp strikes with WC or CoD? (I read the
>clarification, thus my confusion)
>

Okay, the way it works now is basically like this. A vampire strikes
for aggro damage. So I fire a Flamethrower. Or I'm basilia doing
hands. Or I have an ivory bow or a sengir dagger. Or I play wolf claws
or whatever.

Okay, now someone plays rotschreck and targets the person *doing* the
aggro damage. So if Basilia is striking for hands and I play Rotschreck
on her, she goes to torpor NOT the person who would have taken the aggro
damage.

>
>Lead us through the Darkness...
>
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--

James Coupe (remove items of clothing to reply)

I shall personally come around to your houses and drag you out by the scruff of
the neck. I shall belt you around the mouth and mouth you around the belt. Do
you understand what I'm saying?

[LSJ]

James Coupe wrote:
> In article <667fn3$9...@ecuador.earthlink.net>, Sintax
> <pchan...@earthlink.net> writes
> >1. What if a vampire attempts to Govern the Unaligned to bleed at +2, then
> >untaps and uses another GtU to add free blood, this legit?
>
> Dunno. It's NRA and I'm beyond trying to understand that.

I didn't realize NRA (No Repeat Actions) was still giving some
people trouble.

It's complicated, and I apologize for that. But the problem NRA
addresses is real. So the rule is necessary, although the rule
itself is difficult to implement because it isn't inherent to the
game, and doesn't fit very well with the rest of the game (since
the rest of the game just depends on tapping to keep track of
what a minion can and cannot do, for the most part).

So, here's a refresher, which should cover everything about the NRA:

First, a quote from the DCI rules (July 1, 1997):

1. Repeat Action rule: No single vampire can repeat an action in a turn.
This refers to the particular action type. For example, a vampire which
successfully bleeds its prey via Computer Hacking, then untaps via Freak
Drive, cannot perform any bleeding action again whatsoever that turn,
regardless of whether or not it is a Computer Hacking action.

Note: the word "vampire" in the first sentence should be "minion".

Implementation is complicated by two things: timing (only really
interesting in cases like Mask of a Thousand faces where the acting
minion changes) and figuring out what constitutes the same "type of
action".

The easy one first: Timing.

Implementation of NRA can be viewed as a restriction the acting
minion receives. The restriction is applied when the action
resolves (that is, when it ends, either successful or not). Only
the acting minion at that time gets the restriction (not any
prior acting minion, in the case that the action was taken over
by some new minion playing Mask of a Thousand Faces).

The second one is addressed by simply defining what the different types
of actions are:

1) Action types defined in the rulebook (6.4, 7, and 19)
These are:
* Bleed
* Hunt
* Employ (Retainer)
* Recruit (Ally)
* Equip
* Transfer Equipment
* Call a vote
* Leave Torpor
* Rescue (from Torpor)
* Diablerize (in Torpor)

2) Actions allowed by action cards that are not covered above.
Every action card is of the "type" of its card name.
Examples: Bum's Rush, Army of Rats (putting into play), Far
Mastery.

3) Actions allowed by cards in play that are not covered by 1).
Each of these is a distinct type per card in play. So each
Haven Uncovered provides a unique action type (to attack the
target vampire), even though the cards have the same name.

Additionally, since any "same action" is of the "same type".
Since actions taken by action cards are the "same" based only
on card name (for purposes of Change of Target and Obedience),
this makes inferior Govern the Unaligned the "same action" as
superior Govern the Unaligned (since they have the same action
card name). Therefore, they are also the same action type.
(Which means that inferior Govern is in two types: "bleed" and
"Govern").

Did I miss anything?

[How]

LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> wrote in article
<8813369...@dejanews.com>...

> "Sintax" <pchan...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > 1. What if a vampire attempts to Govern the Unaligned to bleed at +2,
then
> > untaps and uses another GtU to add free blood, this legit?
>

> If you're using the DCI tourney rules, no.
> Otherwise, it is legal.
>

> > 2. What about combat cards? Same deal? Wolf's Claws(?) for maneuver,
then WC
> > for aggravated damage?
>

> Not the same deal. You're welcome to use the same combat card as often as
> you like during a single combat, unless card text specifies otherwise.
>

I'm getting confused here, does that mean that I can play multiple blurs in
the same combat? and undead strength for each strike I thus get?
LSJ?? Could you please clarify?

> --
> L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com)
> Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
> (*) - Subject to review by Rules Team
>

[James Coupe]

In article <01bd0203$1b01c460$d2c315a5@default>, How
<how...@mbox4.singnet.com.sg> writes

>>
>I'm getting confused here, does that mean that I can play multiple blurs in
>the same combat? and undead strength for each strike I thus get?
>LSJ?? Could you please clarify?

No, what he is saying is this. There is no set limit for only one of
each combat card per round. IF I HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY, I can play as
^^ ^ ^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^
many of a given combat card in a round as a I want.

For instance, Increased Strength (the card which gives bonuses on
Potence strikes) can be played as many times as I like.

However, there are some instances where you can only play one card. I
can only play one card as a strike. I can only have one source of
additional strikes per round (exception Jacko and Quickness).

But I could play more than one Undead Strength in round - I could play
it on every single of my additional strikes if I wanted.

There isn't a rule that says I'm not allowed to play two Blurs in a
round because they have the same name. I'm not allowed to play two of
them in a round because they are both sources of additional strikes.

[LSJ]

"How" <how...@mbox4.singnet.com.sg> wrote:
> LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> wrote in article <8813369...@dejanews.com>...

> > You're welcome to use the same combat card as often as
> > you like during a single combat, unless card text specifies otherwise.
> >

> I'm getting confused here, does that mean that I can play multiple blurs in
> the same combat? and undead strength for each strike I thus get?

Yes. and Yes.
Doesn't sound like you're confused at all :-)

Note that you cannot use more than one blur per combat *round*, since you
are limited by the rules to only one additional-strike-gaining-effect per
round of combat.

[SirTemple]

>Additionally, since any "same action" is of the "same type".
>Since actions taken by action cards are the "same" based only
>on card name (for purposes of Change of Target and Obedience),
>this makes inferior Govern the Unaligned the "same action" as
>superior Govern the Unaligned (since they have the same action
>card name). Therefore, they are also the same action type.
>(Which means that inferior Govern is in two types: "bleed" and
>"Govern").

I don't understand this part.
So If I Govern the unaligned (inferior) then I can not bleed or add blood to an
innactive vampire again. This is what you said. What if I Govern the
unaligned (supirior), am I now prohibited from bleeding? Why is this like this?

Jason

[Chris Berger]

If you Govern the Unaligned(inferior), then you are prohibited from
bleeding and prohibited from playing Govern the Unaligned. Any other
actions are legal, including Scouting Mission(superior), etc.

If you Govern the Unaligned(superior), then you are prohibited from
playing Govern the Unaligned. Any other actions are legal, this includes
bleeding(either cardless, or any card other than Govern the Unaligned),
Scouting Mission(superior), and 4th Tradition: The Accounting.

Is this clear? If you play an action card, that vampire is prohibited
from using that action card again. If a vampire takes a defined
action(see previous posts for defined actions), that vampire is
prohibited from taking that defined action again, regardless of what card
you use.

-Chris

[LSJ]

Chris Berger wrote:
> > >Additionally, since any "same action" is of the "same type".
> > >Since actions taken by action cards are the "same" based only
> > >on card name (for purposes of Change of Target and Obedience),
> > >this makes inferior Govern the Unaligned the "same action" as
> > >superior Govern the Unaligned (since they have the same action
> > >card name). Therefore, they are also the same action type.
> > >(Which means that inferior Govern is in two types: "bleed" and
> > >"Govern").
> >
> > I don't understand this part.
>

> If you Govern the Unaligned(inferior), then you are prohibited from
> bleeding and prohibited from playing Govern the Unaligned. Any other
> actions are legal, including Scouting Mission(superior), etc.
>
> If you Govern the Unaligned(superior), then you are prohibited from
> playing Govern the Unaligned. Any other actions are legal, this includes
> bleeding(either cardless, or any card other than Govern the Unaligned),
> Scouting Mission(superior), and 4th Tradition: The Accounting.
>
> Is this clear? If you play an action card, that vampire is prohibited
> from using that action card again. If a vampire takes a defined
> action(see previous posts for defined actions), that vampire is
> prohibited from taking that defined action again, regardless of what card
> you use.

Correct. Thanks for the typing, Chris.