Canada Stands Firm against Barbaric USA
Desmond Coughlan
In a decision that will have William Grosvenor chewing through the
straps that the doctors use to hold him down, the British Columbia
Court of Appeals has refused to extradite two Canadian citizens to
Washington State, to stand trial for murder. If convicted in the
United States, they would risk the death penalty.
Three cheers for Canada ...
Desmond Coughlan |"Well I could use a little spin on a red brick
Remove "nospam_" from |floor, in a crazy ol' bar when Tim locks the
e-mail address. |door, where the walls are ringin', the strings
|are gonna bend ..."
|"Spin on a Red Brick Floor", Nanci Griffith.
JIGSAW1695
Desmond wrote:
Subject: Canada Stands Firm against Barbaric USA
From: nospam_...@pratique.fr (Desmond Coughlan)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 14:53:57 GMT
Message-ID: <33c798dd...@news.pratique.fr>
In a decision that will have William Grosvenor chewing through the
straps that the doctors use to hold him down, the British Columbia
Court of Appeals has refused to extradite two Canadian citizens to
Washington State, to stand trial for murder. If convicted in the
United States, they would risk the death penalty.
........................
They cant put them in jail because they have not broken any Canadian laws.
The cannot deport them because they are Candian Citizens.
What is going to happen when they draw more blood, only this time in
Canada??
OK Dizzy, now that the Canadians got them, what are the going to do with
them??
mgcu...@connect.net
In article <33c798dd...@news.pratique.fr>,
nospam_...@pratique.fr wrote:
>
> In a decision that will have William Grosvenor chewing through the
> straps that the doctors use to hold him down, the British Columbia
> Court of Appeals has refused to extradite two Canadian citizens to
> Washington State, to stand trial for murder. If convicted in the
> United States, they would risk the death penalty.
So what happens to them? Do they get to go about their merry way?
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Desmond Coughlan
On Sun, 13 Jul 1997 09:22:28 -0600, mgcu...@connect.net wrote:
>> In a decision that will have William Grosvenor chewing through the
>> straps that the doctors use to hold him down, the British Columbia
>> Court of Appeals has refused to extradite two Canadian citizens to
>> Washington State, to stand trial for murder. If convicted in the
>> United States, they would risk the death penalty.
>So what happens to them? Do they get to go about their merry way?
That I don't know, but if they are guilty, I would hope the Canadian
Government would imprison them in a Canadian gaol, if such a
reciprocal agreement exists between your two countries, as it does,
for example, in Europe..
(Intphase: shut the fuck up, we don't want your opinion, and besides,
you're not even _Canadian_).
Besides, even if they are guilty, I would rather that they go free,
than be murdered (Source: Websters) by the state.
----
Desmond Coughlan |"We got loud guitars, and big suspicions,
Remove "nospam_" from |Great big guns and small ambitions,
e-mail address. |And we still argue over who is God."
|"It's hard to make a stand" Sheryl Crow.
JIGSAW1695
Subject: Re: Canada Stands Firm against Barbaric USA
From: nospam_...@pratique.fr (Desmond Coughlan)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:21:21 GMT
Message-ID: <33c8feb0...@news.pratique.fr>
On Sun, 13 Jul 1997 09:22:28 -0600, mgcu...@connect.net wrote:
>> In a decision that will have William Grosvenor chewing through the
>> straps that the doctors use to hold him down, the British Columbia
>> Court of Appeals has refused to extradite two Canadian citizens to
>> Washington State, to stand trial for murder. If convicted in the
>> United States, they would risk the death penalty.
>So what happens to them? Do they get to go about their merry way?
That I don't know, but if they are guilty, I would hope the Canadian
Government would imprison them in a Canadian gaol, if such a
reciprocal agreement exists between your two countries, as it does,
for example, in Europe..
......
What crimes have they committed under Canadian Law??
Looks to me like our Northern Neighbors really fucked up big time.
spr...@umich.edu
>In a decision that will have William Grosvenor chewing through the
>straps that the doctors use to hold him down, the British Columbia
>Court of Appeals has refused to extradite two Canadian citizens to
>Washington State, to stand trial for murder. If convicted in the
>United States, they would risk the death penalty.
Just to clarify:
The extradition treaty between Canada and the US has an explicit clause
allowing the "surrendering jurisdiction" to refuse to provide an accused
for trail without a guarantee that the requesting jurisdiction will not
seek or inflict a death sentence. However, such discretion belongs to the
minister of justice, not the courts. The courts ruling on an extradition
merely determine the following:
1) as a matter of law, does the extradition treaty cover the offence,
2) as a matter of fact, based on the affidavits presented by the
requesting jurisdiction, could a properly instructed jury convict the
defendant of the crime alleged? It applies the standard of evidence
required by a preliminary hearing (in Canada) or a Grand Jury (in the US).
Only if the courts rule in the affirmative on both those points does the
political authority (the State Governor in the US., or the Minister of
Justice in Canada) decide whether or not to request a waiver of a death
sentence.
Thus, the case Desmond cites above appears not to involve a political
decision, but a determination by the BC courts that the State of
Washington did not present a case sufficient to indict and proceed to
trial.
John G. Spragge ----------------------- standard disclaimers apply
mgcu...@connect.net
In article <33c8feb0...@news.pratique.fr>,
-------snip (Canada refuses to extradite 2 men to US to face murder
charges because they might face the death penalty here)
>
> >So what happens to them? Do they get to go about their merry way?
>
> That I don't know, but if they are guilty, I would hope the Canadian
> Government would imprison them in a Canadian gaol, if such a
> reciprocal agreement exists between your two countries, as it does,
> for example, in Europe..
>
> (Intphase: shut the fuck up, we don't want your opinion, and besides,
> you're not even _Canadian_).
>
> Besides, even if they are guilty, I would rather that they go free,
> than be murdered (Source: Websters) by the state.
> ----
This is where I shake my head in profoundest disbelief, Desmond. Let me
take a deep breath and ask you to extend that "what if" just a bit
further. If they do go free in Canada and you later find out that they
murdered (Source: Websters) one or more persons in Canada, would you
still rather that they go free?
Mike Cullinan
mgcu...@connect.net
Desmond Coughlan
On Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:53:53 -0600, mgcu...@connect.net wrote:
>> >So what happens to them? Do they get to go about their merry way?
>> That I don't know, but if they are guilty, I would hope the Canadian
>> Government would imprison them in a Canadian gaol, if such a
>> reciprocal agreement exists between your two countries, as it does,
>> for example, in Europe..
>>
>> (Intphase: shut the fuck up, we don't want your opinion, and besides,
>> you're not even _Canadian_).
>>
>> Besides, even if they are guilty, I would rather that they go free,
>> than be murdered (Source: Websters) by the state.
>This is where I shake my head in profoundest disbelief, Desmond. Let me
>take a deep breath and ask you to extend that "what if" just a bit
>further. If they do go free in Canada and you later find out that they
>murdered (Source: Websters) one or more persons in Canada, would you
>still rather that they go free?
Yes.
Murder by the state is much, much worse than murder by a private
individual. I would much rather that these two individuals be tried
in Canada, or failing that, extradited to the United States, once a
guarantee of immunity from capital proceedings has been obtained. If
the choice is between locking them up, or releasing them, then it
would be the former. If the choice is freedom or death, then they
must go free.
----
Desmond Coughlan |"In Britain, people who wander around at
Remove "nospam_" |night drunk, waving shotguns and shooting
from e-mail address |chickens are called pyschopaths. In the
|United States, they're called citizens."
|"FHM" Magazine, August 1997
mgcu...@connect.net
In article <33cbed2...@news.pratique.fr>,
nospam_...@pratique.fr wrote:
>
--------------snip (Canada refuses to extradite US murder suspects)
> >> Besides, even if they are guilty, I would rather that they go free,
> >> than be murdered (Source: Websters) by the state.
>
> >This is where I shake my head in profoundest disbelief, Desmond. Let me
> >take a deep breath and ask you to extend that "what if" just a bit
> >further. If they do go free in Canada and you later find out that they
> >murdered (Source: Websters) one or more persons in Canada, would you
> >still rather that they go free?
>
> Yes.
I was afraid you would say something like that, but rather expected it.
Let's take it just a bit further still. If they murdered your mother and
father, brother and sister, would you still want to see them to go free?
> Murder by the state is much, much worse than murder by a private
> individual.
The vast majority of people regard senseless murders, shocking mass
murders, bombings, etc. by private individuals to be much worse
than executions of killers by the state. I know you must think that
all those people who think that are extremely warped, but just take it
on faith.
> I would much rather that these two individuals be tried
> in Canada, or failing that, extradited to the United States, once a
> guarantee of immunity from capital proceedings has been obtained. If
> the choice is between locking them up, or releasing them, then it
> would be the former. If the choice is freedom or death, then they
> must go free.
Of course, even if it means more loss of innocent life at their hands.
So much for your coveted moral high ground.
Desmond Coughlan
On Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:59:24 -0400, Don McDonald <old...@clark.net>
wrote:
[snip]
>> >This is where I shake my head in profoundest disbelief, Desmond.
>> >Let me take a deep breath and ask you to extend that "what if"
>> >just a bit further. If they do go free in Canada and you later
>> >find out that they murdered (Source: Websters) one or more persons
>> >in Canada, would you still rather that they go free?
>> Yes.
> And young Desi wonders why everyone calls him a murderer
>lover.
No, I don't wonder that, because only you call me a murderer lover.
Then again, only you are stupid enough to think that anyone on this
newsgroup will believe you.
>> Murder by the state is much, much worse than murder by a private
>> individual.
[Don's admission of defeat snipped]
>> I would much rather that these two individuals be tried
>> in Canada,
> Except that they didn't commit any crimes in Canada.
>Again, perhaps you should do a little research on a topic
>before you start offering naive, uninformed "suggestions".
Many nations of the world have reciprocal arrangements with their
neighbours for trying and imprisoning prisoners from another country,
if extradition is impossible or inpractical.
Don, this is getting too easy. You need to study your technique.
>> or failing that, extradited to the United States, once a
>> guarantee of immunity from capital proceedings has been obtained.
> Too bad for you (and your beloved murderers) that the
>United States is a sovereign nation and, as such, will not be
>told how to handle their internal affairs by other countries.
No, you just hypocritically tell other nations what to do, and then go
on to commit similar human rights' abuses yourselves.
>> If
>> the choice is between locking them up, or releasing them, then it
>> would be the former. If the choice is freedom or death, then they
>> must go free.
> Actually, much like Libya, Canada is harboring a couple
>of murderers. Seems like you are one of the ones that finds
>being in the same company as countries like Libya distasteful.
>Guess this is just one more application of your situational
>ethics.
Sorry to burst your bubble, Don, and open your eyes to the cover-up in
your country, but the aircraft that crashed over Lockerbie was _not_
downed by a bomb. It was what pilots call CAT, or Clear Air
Turbulence. The 747 in question was old, and literally fell apart.
The FBI, PanAm, and (I'm ashamed to say) the British authorities,
conspired to conceal this, making sure that the only court action to
which PanAm would be subject, would be civil litigation.
[Don's newbie eight-line sig snipped]
Lord Clane
In article <33c8feb0...@news.pratique.fr>,
nospam_...@pratique.fr (Desmond Coughlan) writes:
On Sun, 13 Jul 1997 09:22:28 -0600, mgcu...@connect.net wrote:
>>> In a decision that will have William Grosvenor chewing through the
>>> straps that the doctors use to hold him down, the British Columbia
>>> Court of Appeals has refused to extradite two Canadian citizens to
>>> Washington State, to stand trial for murder. If convicted in the
>>> United States, they would risk the death penalty.
???
>>So what happens to them? Do they get to go about their merry way?
Coughlin
>That I don't know, but if they are guilty, I would hope the Canadian
>Government would imprison them in a Canadian gaol, if such a
>reciprocal agreement exists between your two countries, as it does,
>for example, in Europe..
[snip]
>Besides, even if they are guilty, I would rather that they go free,
>than be murdered (Source: Websters) by the state.
I have yet to find any edition of any standard dictionary
that fails to define "murder" as the ILLEGAL killing of one
human being by another. Perhaps I missed the thread
where you provided such. Could you provide the source
and complete text for all definitions of "murder" in
whatever edition of Webster's you're using?
mgcu...@connect.net
In article <33d0f779...@news.pratique.fr>,
nospam_...@pratique.fr wrote:
>
------------snip
> Sorry to burst your bubble, Don, and open your eyes to the cover-up in
> your country, but the aircraft that crashed over Lockerbie was _not_
> downed by a bomb.
That is full-blown paranoia, Desmond.
_Absolutely_ every news broadcast, newspaper story and magazine
article has referred to this as a terrorist act, to whit, a bomb.
It appears that the coverup and hoax has also sucked in
these German officials, and everyone has been on a wild goose
chase since 1988.
Summary: TEHRAN, Iran - Iran on Sunday dismissed as "unfounded and
ridiculous" a report thatthe late Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini ordered
the 1988 bombing of a Pan Am jet over Lockerbie, Scotland. Germany's Der
Spiegel magazine reported Saturday that German officials were looking
into information that Khomeini ordered the bombing after a U.S. warship
shot down an Iranian passenger jet.
Mike Cullinan
mgcu...@connet.net
Desmond Coughlan
On 20 Jul 1997 22:32:25 GMT, lord...@aol.com (Lord Clane) wrote:
>>>> In a decision that will have William Grosvenor chewing through the
>>>> straps that the doctors use to hold him down, the British Columbia
>>>> Court of Appeals has refused to extradite two Canadian citizens to
>>>> Washington State, to stand trial for murder. If convicted in the
>>>> United States, they would risk the death penalty.
>>>So what happens to them? Do they get to go about their merry way?
>>That I don't know, but if they are guilty, I would hope the Canadian
>>Government would imprison them in a Canadian gaol, if such a
>>reciprocal agreement exists between your two countries, as it does,
>>for example, in Europe..
>[snip]
>>Besides, even if they are guilty, I would rather that they go free,
>>than be murdered (Source: Websters) by the state.
>I have yet to find any edition of any standard dictionary
>that fails to define "murder" as the ILLEGAL killing of one
>human being by another. Perhaps I missed the thread
>where you provided such. Could you provide the source
>and complete text for all definitions of "murder" in
>whatever edition of Webster's you're using?
Go to Don McDonald's web page (Fuck! It's gotta be good for
_something_ !!!), and click on the Webster link at the bottom, after
having added the word "murder" to the form.
----
Desmond Coughlan |"All the roads we have to walk are winding
Remove "_nospam" |All the lights that lead us there are blinding
from e-mail address |There are many things that I would like to
|say to you, but I don't know how."
|Oasis
JoAnne Schmitz
On Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:02:43 -0400, Don Kool <old...@clark.net> wrote:
[flamebait snipped]
> [...ludicrous urban legend snipped...]
>
> ROTFLOLASTD !!!
>
> Followups directed to alt.folklore.urban
Claiming that something you think is stupid is "an urban legend" is
taking a figure of speech at its literal meaning. It's fairly common
to claim one's political opponent is spouting "fairy tales;" this is
just a new edition of that claim.
Furthermore, you included all the off-topic junk in each post, snip
the purported legend, _then_ send it off to AFU. Not just once, but
twice. What are we supposed to do now, Charlie, guess what the legend
was?
JoAnne "extra stupid, hold the reasoning, followups reset" Schmitz
Don Kool
JoAnne, what does this have to do with the just Death Penalty,
Hon. Please try to stay on-topic in the future. This group is full
enough already of worthless, French spam.
Hope this helps,
Don
********************** My juice is sweet like Georgia peaches
* Rev. Don McDonald * Women suck it up like leeches
* Baltimore, MD * ---- FREAKNASTY
********************** "Da' Dip"
http://www.clark.net/pub/oldno7
Ben Dover
Desmond Coughlan <nospam_...@pratique.fr> wrote in article
<33d0f779...@news.pratique.fr>...
> On Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:59:24 -0400, Don McDonald <old...@clark.net>
> wrote:
>
> Sorry to burst your bubble, Don, and open your eyes to the cover-up in
> your country, but the aircraft that crashed over Lockerbie was _not_
> downed by a bomb. It was what pilots call CAT, or Clear Air
> Turbulence. The 747 in question was old, and literally fell apart.
> The FBI, PanAm, and (I'm ashamed to say) the British authorities,
> conspired to conceal this, making sure that the only court action to
> which PanAm would be subject, would be civil litigation.
>
> [your constant quipping within your snipping is driving me up the wall]
I think that this little bit of paranoia belongs under
alt.conspiracy.black.helicopters or in some other pile-of-dung newsgroup.
Desmond Coughlan
On 24 Jul 1997 04:37:55 GMT, "Ben Dover" <bend...@microsoft.com>
wrote:
>> Sorry to burst your bubble, Don, and open your eyes to the cover-up in
>> your country, but the aircraft that crashed over Lockerbie was _not_
>> downed by a bomb. It was what pilots call CAT, or Clear Air
>> Turbulence. The 747 in question was old, and literally fell apart.
>> The FBI, PanAm, and (I'm ashamed to say) the British authorities,
>> conspired to conceal this, making sure that the only court action to
>> which PanAm would be subject, would be civil litigation.
>>
>> [your constant quipping within your snipping is driving me up the wall]
>I think that this little bit of paranoia belongs under
>alt.conspiracy.black.helicopters or in some other pile-of-dung newsgroup.
God bless Americans, eh? They only believe something if their
government tells them it. What a gullible race you people are ...
Rev. Don Kool
> >> Sorry to burst your bubble, Don, and open your eyes to the
> >> cover-up in your country, but the aircraft that crashed over
> >> Lockerbie was _not_ downed by a bomb. It was what pilots call
> >> CAT, or Clear Air Turbulence. The 747 in question was old, and
> >> literally fell apart. The FBI, PanAm, and (I'm ashamed to say)
> >> the British authorities, conspired to conceal this, making sure
> >> that the only court action to which PanAm would be subject,
> >> would be civil litigation.
> >>
> >> [your constant quipping within your snipping is driving me up the
> wall]
> >I think that this little bit of paranoia belongs under
> >alt.conspiracy.black.helicopters or in some other pile-of-dung
> newsgroup.
> God bless Americans, eh?
Yes, he certainly did. Amen.
> They only believe something if their
> government tells them it. What a gullible race you people are ...
Actually there isn't really an American "race", Desi.
Unlike the whitebread countries that you are nominally familiar
with, America is made up of people from all races living in
harmony and brotherhood and all proud to call themselves Americans.
God bless America indeed.