Further questions / erasing fertility..

[ju...@xs4all.disdiz.nl]

On Tue, 08 Apr 1997 20:11:28 GMT, bcp...@acs.tamu.edu wrote:

> Does anyone here have children? I'm sure they do.

It's not about that. It's about those that may be planning to
have them and should at least know what they're up against when
their unborn children want to have children. Either as a mother
you decide to be the suffering party or you pass the suffering on
to your child. Interesting ethical dilemma. I'd say: Don't be so
selfish, don't have children and don't make everyone feel so bad
about not having any. Sure, that's unfair to loads of wanna-be
mothers, but hey, I don't know, you just gotta draw the line
somewhere. And my point is exactly this; Why not draw that line?
Now is a time we still are able to make such decisions with some
sense of direction, organisation and civilisation behind it.
Later on humanity might not be. And then what? Just leave
some left-over outcasted excentrics behind in misery
and utter loneliness? How do you think they'll feel
about you having brought them to life?
I hope we make the right decision and try to be ahead of our
extinction by, in a way, ending it ourselves. A suicide by human kind
if you will.. It may sound far-fedged, but it really isn't.
It's just thinking one level higher than 'the masses' do.

> can't help feel that such positions are really methods of escape from
> the problems we face. Perhaps human institutions will not be able to
> deal with overpopulation, ozone depletion or the multitude of other
> dangers which exponentiating technology brings.

There you have it, you are blaming us humans for things which aren't
our fault to begin with. You are giving humanity some sort of
ultimate being-status, some sort of sole being in the universe.
Fully responsable for ozone depletion and the likes. I state that
it's much too arrogant to think we can have such an impact.
For example, if the earth would move it's polar-position just 2%
off axis (quite common behavior if you look in the rest of
the universe), human life would probably be over in, say,
3 or 4 years time. That's how much power we have here.

> No one can know for sure.

We DO know for sure, we are simply post-poning the ethically real
difficult and important issues. "Let our children make those hard
decisions." And we are defending our fear of making such decisions
by saying that life is so unpredictable and oh, having children is
so much fun, we should all have the right to experience the same
as our parents and oh, life and god are so devine, oh gladness!

> However, I'm not quite ready to pass judgement on
> humanity, and especially for those critical to the so-called
> self-righteous religious people, I don't see how anyone else can
> either.

I'm not passing judgement on humanity. If I were an alien
of extreme intelligence and I'd somehow land here I'd say to us:
"Hey you guys, you have absolutely nothing whatsoever to
feel so damn sorry for. You were dumped here without knowing
why, you wanted to enjoy your life here, and so you did!
And, now what, you feel guilty for using that little piece
of shithole you call earth!? Give us a break! Go and enjoy!"

> Let's assume that our generation destroys the earth and/or all living
> things upon it and we do this willingly. As I understand many of the
> postings, we would do this for the betterment of the cosmos or by
> preventing the suffering of future generations or beings. So my
> question is this: Did anybody ask them if it were okay? True, we
> didn't ask to be here, but I for one am damn happy to have the chance
> to live. I'm certain others are happy about their existence as well.

That's no excuse. I am too. I'd be having an even greater
time if things (about our future) weren't all so insecure.

How can one ask those that won't be here if anything
would be wrong with that? That's a monty python-joke.
People already do abortions too. A lot worse, if you
mean what you just wrote about having the right to do so.
Worse than human kind trying suicide by erasing fertility
and by doing so eliminating unneccesary suffering.
Which, by the way, can even be arranged without
having to damage human sexuality or attraction.
I've been told in a science newsgroup
that this could be done. All hormonal
functions can be avoided for this purpose.

I have to admit, having written all this,
and the other article (Why destroy earth?),
I predict that my words will perhaps be
quoted as some great example of how it could have
been, when humans are scarsely roming the planet
for what's left in the year 2115 or so.
That is, imho, not even an exageration.
Come to think of that, I'm 31 now, this could
already involve children of my children!

I think human kind will not even have time to become
any more civilized than they will be in, say, 2003.
They will all be way too busy trying to survive here
to have any time left for an escape to other planets.

Julius, Amsterdam, 1997