[TNG] Lynch's Spoiler Review: "The Pegasus"
Timothy W. Lynch
regarding TNG's "The Pegasus". Those not having seen the episode are urged
to avoid this article until further notice.
Wow. Probably the best of the season to date -- certainly the meatiest.
I am very impressed -- barely a wrong note to be found in this one. Quite a
bit more will follow, after this synopsis:
The Enterprise takes on board one Admiral Eric Pressman. Pressman, as well
as being high up in Starfleet Intelligence, is also Riker's first commanding
officer from the Pegasus -- and it's the Pegasus that is at issue right now.
She was apparently carrying sensitive prototype equipment that would be
dangerous in enemy hands; and the ship, thought lost with nearly all hands in
an explosion twelve years ago, is apparently in the Devolin system, where the
Romulans are intensely searching for it. The Enterprise is to proceed to
that system and find the Pegasus -- "salvage it if possible, destroy it if
necessary."
When they reach the system, they find it consisting primarily of asteroid
debris, making scans slow and difficult. A Romulan warbird that's also
exploring the system drops by to exchange "pleasantries", and its commander
promises to remain in the area a while longer. The Romulans have a two-day
headstart in the search, but the Enterprise begins searching nonetheless.
Meanwhile, Riker and Pressman talk about the final days of the Pegasus to
each other; and while Riker has second thoughts about some of his actions,
Pressman reminds him that their actions were "for the good of the
Federation". What's more, he plans to start up "the experiment" again if
they find it intact -- "and this time, no one's going to stop us." He tells
Riker that there are written orders for him from Starfleet Intelligence in
the computer, and that he is not to reveal the nature of the mission to
anyone, not even Picard.
After Pressman makes veiled remarks to Picard about the importance of
loyalty, saying outright that it was Riker's unswerving loyalty on the
Pegasus that kept them both alive when nearly every other crewmember died,
the Enterprise strikes paydirt, finding signs of the warp-core.
Unfortunately, it appears to be buried far down in a chasm on a large
asteroid, and in the time it would take to find it more precisely, the
Romulans would be over to see what was going on. Riker suggests destroying
the asteroid to keep the Pegasus out of Romulan hands, but Pressman
vehemently opposes it, preferring instead to go with Picard's plan of
blanketing the area with ionizing radiation and covering traces of the
warp-core's radiation. Although it's a risky move, it works, and the warbird
apparently leaves. Picard, not wanting to arouse even further suspicions,
orders the Enterprise to pursue a false search pattern and come back to the
asteroid the next day.
After Picard leaves, Pressman upbraids Riker harshly in private for even
considering destroying the Pegasus -- it would be difficult, he points out,
to change the balance of power in the quadrant without the Pegasus in hand.
Riker shows Pressman that he's changed in many ways, but Pressman commends
him for his past loyalties, and says that "I know I can count on you again"
to help him in this mission.
Riker then proceeds to Picard's quarters, where Picard wants to talk about a
deeply-buried report he's uncovered about the last day of the Pegasus. The
investigation found evidence of a *mutiny* on board, something unthinkable in
the Federation, and signs that all the surviving officers, Riker included,
withheld information. While Riker is willing to give some details about the
mutiny (most of the crew felt Pressman was endangering the ship with some
engine tests, and Riker, fresh out of the Academy and "full of notions like
duty and honor" defended Pressman until they both could escape), he will not
talk about what else was going on, suggesting that he take it up with
Pressman. "I'm taking this up with *you*, Will! The Judge Advocate thought
that you were participating in a conspiracy to cover up the truth. Now what
the hell is going on here, Will? Why did that mutiny happen? Why is
Pressman so determined to find that ship, twelve years later?"
"I've said all I can," Riker replies. "I am under direct orders from Admiral
Pressman not to discuss this ... sir."
Picard stands, appalled. "Very well. He's an Admiral, I'm a Captain -- i
cannot *force* you to disobey his orders. Therefore, I will have to remain
in the dark on this mission; and I will just have to trust that you will
not let Pressman put this ship at unnecessary risk. And if I find that that
trust has been misplaced, then I will have to re-evaluate the command
structure of this ship. Dismissed." Riker, somewhat stunned, leaves.
Picard's worries come to a head very quickly, as the return to the asteroid
with the Pegasus brings a call from Pressman to take the Enterprise itself
into the chasm, as it seems the surest way to get the Pegasus salvaged.
Faced with direct orders, Picard agrees -- but only after logging his
explicit objections and threatening to abort the mission if conditions get
too tight. Fortunately, they find the Pegasus, but 65% of it is entombed
*within* the asteroid itself! It is determined that much of the engineering
section is intact, and Pressman and Riker beam over once life support is
restored.
There, as they stroll past dead bodies to reach their objective, Riker gets
more and more troubled about the nature of their mission. Finally, as
Pressman discovers that "the experiment" is intact, Riker makes a decision:
he will not allow Pressman to continue the experiments on the Enterprise.
Although Pressman argues with him strenuously, even calling him a traitor,
Riker stands his ground, saying that he made the wrong decision twelve years
ago, and that if he had it to do over again, he'd have joined the mutineers.
Pressman threatens to end Riker's career if he says a word to anyone, but
just then they are forced to beam back. The Romulans have sealed off the
entrance to the chasm with disruptors, sealing both ships inside kilometers
of solid rock.
The Romulans hail, expressing regret over "accidentally" trapping the
Enterprise in the asteroid and offering to beam all personnel to safety. No
one, however, agrees with this choice, as it would hand over both ships to
the Romulans without a fight. The Romulans lurk outside, awaiting a
decision -- and Riker makes a choice. He tells Picard that Pressman's
experiment may offer a solution. "It's a prototype for a Federation cloaking
device."
Pressman is angry, and tells Riker that he's just ended his career, but Picard
is incensed: The Federation agreed sixty years ago in the Treaty of
Algeron never to develop cloaking technology. Pressman acknowledges that,
but insists that the treaty was the Federation's biggest mistake, allowing
the Romulans to keep them off balance for decades. When Picard doesn't
agree, saying that this device might change the balance of power, but is
unethical and illegal, Pressman tries to assume command. He quickly finds,
however, that no one will go along with *his* mutiny, and conversation turns
to the device.
Riker explains that it not only cloaks a ship, but "phases" it, allowing it
to pass through normal matter. Thus, if hooked up properly, it should allow
the Enterprise to leave the asteroid unscathed. Although the connections are
somewhat tricky, LaForge and Data manage to hook it into the Enterprise
safely, giving hints to what happened to the Pegasus in the process. The
Enterprise escapes the asteroid, but then decloaks deliberately in front of
the warbird, when Picard tells them that a message will go out very shortly
to the Romulan government about this entire incident. The treaty, Picard
assures Pressman, was negotiated in good faith and will not be broken -- and
to that end, he places Pressman and Riker under arrest.
Later, Picard visits Riker in the brig. A full inquiry will get underway
shortly, and will probably lead to a court-martial for Pressman and many
other members of Starfleet Intelligence. Riker's part in it will cost him a
great deal of respect, but his choice to tell the truth now, and his twelve
years of superlative service since the Pegasus, will probably save him. His
decision, furthermore, has done more than ever to convince Picard that,
despite Riker's mistakes, Riker is still his choice for first officer.
----------
Well, that takes care of that. (I never remember how much time it takes to
write these synopses up after a few weeks off until I've done it. Yeesh.
:-) ) Now, some equally verbose commentary:
First of all, I just noticed something interesting. With Ron Moore returning
to the TNG writing fold, all of the last four shows have been written by the
regular members of the writing staff: Moore, Brannon Braga ("Parallels"),
Rene Echevarria ("Inheritance"), and Naren Shankar ("Force of Nature"). Of
those, all but "Force of Nature" were quite good -- a serious upturn from the
fairly lackluster start this season had. So a hearty "welcome back" to the
big four -- but where the heck were they earlier?
In any event, Ron Moore's return certainly was remarkable -- not only is this
one of the best of the season (it's this or "Parallels", depending on what
I'm in the mood for), but it's probably the best TNG he's written in over a
year. The last things he wrote that really drew me in were "Relics" and
"Tapestry", and I think I like this a good deal better than either of those.
Everything about it just felt so completely *right* that it was a pretty
riveting show, all in all.
Most of the teaser wasn't related at all, but "Captain Picard Day" had me in
stitches the whole scene. I enjoyed the scene as a whole immensely, but more
than anything I just about died at seeing Frakes's Patrick Stewart impression
actually make it in front of the camera. Frakes must've been saving that one
up for *years*, given the smirk he had when he finally got to throw himself
into it. Great, great fun. (Now I want to see Picard's entry into Commander
Riker Day, but I suppose I'll live.)
On to more serious points. This season is likely to have a lot of shows
trying to answer fundamental questions or resolve fundamental issues, since
this is the last go-round for the series. On the whole, I'm not too thrilled
with that, since on the whole it tends to lead to things like "Attached",
which redeemed itself only with acting that rose light-years above the
material. However, "The Pegasus" would be a fine model to follow for such a
"fundamental" show, because it didn't really feel like it was trying to do
that. What it felt like, and what it *was* through and through, was a damn
good Riker piece about coming to grips with bad decisions. I consider the
facts that it (1) settled the question of why the Federation doesn't have a
cloaking device, and (2) set things up so Riker won't have to make excuses
for not being a captain in the film series almost incidental to that fact.
And that, I think, is exactly as it *should* be -- a show saying only "let's
show why the Feds don't have a cloak" is about as relevant to the characters
and to all but the most driven viewers as one that says "let's show why all
races are humanoid." "The Chase" was the latter, and my feelings about that
one are not positive -- "The Pegasus" handled its question RIGHT.
What's more, this was the sort of "answer" that raises as many questions as
it ties up. We know now that the Federation has agreed not to develop a
cloaking device. What we don't know, and what I'm sure will be debated for
*another* twenty years unless someone decides to give it more detail, is WHY
they made such an agreement. Regardless of Pressman's methods (more about
him later), his argument that this treaty was a mistake may have some merit
to it. (One of my officemates thinks so, and we've already gotten into one
argument about it, so there's definitely room to maneuver -- either that, or
I need a life. Take your pick. :-) ) What circumstances would make the
Federation willingly agree to forgo such an important battle advantage? Were
the Romulans so far behind in everything else that the Federation agreed to
do it solely to stop the wars? Were the Romulans so far ahead in everything
as to be able to force such an agreement? (That one I doubt.) Did the
Romulans agree in turn not to try to develop some *other* form of technology?
If so, what? (And are they abiding by it?) Lots and lots of questions here,
with lots of possible answers. We've got a nice little backstory here
waiting to be told, and I rather like that.
[By the way, something else came to mind. Since the treaty was sixty years
or so old, that puts it about fifteen years past "Star Trek VI". It's all
undoubtedly too late for Kirk's Enterprise to be involved -- septuagenarian
captains aren't all that believable in my book, particularly in as martial a
time as that era apparently was -- but Sulu and the Excelsior (or some other
ship) should still be around. There's lots of room to fill in that decade
and a half from his point of view -- anyone with ideas for a novel about
this? :-) ]
Enough about the long-term ramifications, though. Even within the context of
the episode, this show spoke volumes, especially about Riker. With someone
as willing to stand his ground with Picard as Riker has been over the years,
one might expect it to be a surprise that he *didn't* start out that way --
but I could see it very easily coming from someone "seven months out of the
Academy, my head still full of words like 'duty' and 'honor'." Given the
sheer force of personality Pressman had, to boot, Riker's unswerving loyalty
at a crunch time makes sense -- but it must have been giving him nightmares
for months afterward. Both his obedience then and his utter anger about it
now rang completely and utterly true, and may even go a little ways to
explain why he was willing to risk his career back on the Hood to keep his
captain from beaming down then: maybe he was compensating for not standing
up to his captain when he *absolutely* needed to.
Pressman's character, on the other hand, also spoke volumes, but in a very
different key. It's difficult to argue conclusively one way or the other
about the Treaty of Algeron, so I won't try. However, Pressman's methods
strike me as exemplifying the very worst elements of "intelligence"
communities. Pressman was convinced what he was doing was right, to be sure;
but he was convinced *SO* absolutely that any means, no matter how brutal
or how unjustified it might seem from other standpoints, was justified in
terms of the end it would bring about. The elements of Starfleet
Intelligence that were behind this seemed to have an attitude of "we know
what's best for the Federation, so the rest of the Federation should stay the
hell out of it" that, frankly, I see enough of in this century to make my
skin crawl. I'm not sure it's in keeping with Roddenberry's original idea
that the Federation is basically perfect, but I honestly couldn't care; it's
realistic (there are always going to be some snakes in any garden), and it's
cautionary (not that those who need the caution will be listening anyway, I
suspect).
Actually, the reactions Picard (and Riker, to a fault) had to Pressman's
presence and manner made for a very interesting contrast between what
Federation crews and Romulan crews will put up with. In Romulan ships, or so
it's appeared, having an intelligence operative there giving orders and
threatening reprisals may make for some feelings of distrust (not
surprisingly), but they are accepted as part of the ship, in most cases.
Here, Pressman definitely wasn't -- and had he been less than an Admiral in
rank, Picard would undoubtedly have simply refused to follow many of the
orders. It's an interesting point to look for, I think.
Everybody did a bang-up job, acting-wise. Frakes showed more range than he
has any time this season, and made it so that Riker honestly seemed to be in
a lot of pain over his past choices. I haven't seen Terry O'Quinn in the
past, but I've heard good things about him, and if this performance was any
indication they're well deserved; he made Pressman powerful enough that Riker
as an ensign couldn't be expected to resist him, but also extremely flawed.
As for Stewart, I'll just say this: I laughed like hell during the teaser,
but his threat to Riker to drop him as first officer made me feel like I'd
been kicked in the teeth. That was such a cutting scene that I felt tired
just watching it, and it's tough to do without both actors involved having
gone all out. Major compliments to them.
I think that's really most of the comments that come to mind. This was a
show that I think will rank rather highly in TNG's annals -- a good, solid,
meaty drama that also has some interesting reflections on the universe
surrounding it. If this and the two shows before it are any indication, this
season should have a major, sustained upturn in quality much as last season
did around this time. Suits me fine, that.
So, some shorter points:
-- I still say Lloyd Bridges should have had a cameo somewhere, given the
title and the genre. ;-)
-- Based on the stardate, listing the Pegasus bit as happening twelve years
ago seemed a bit off at first. Then I realized that the date given would
have been for the *inquiry report*, not the incident itself. Does a year and
a half seem an excessively long time? Well, if it does to you, I've got two
words in response: "Iran-Contra". It seems that the process has at least
speeded up a _bit_ by the 24th century...
-- Riker served on a *lot* of ships in the past twelve years. Think about
it: at this point we've got him pinned down as an ensign on the Pegasus
twelve years ago, a lieutenant on the Potemkin three years later ("Second
Chances"), and a lieutenant commander and first officer on the Hood for at
least some of the three years after that, prior to joining the Enterprise
crew. That's some fairly quick rank-climbing -- no wonder everyone thinks he
needs to take a command.
-- Okay, someone has to ask: were Lisa and I the only ones expecting to see
Red Lectroids clinging to the rock face as the Enterprise was phasing
through? :-)
-- No *wonder* I was reminded a little bit of "Face of the Enemy". Besides
the obvious Romulan presence, John Debney did the music for both, and damned
well. Give this guy some more work.
That about covers it. So, wrapping up:
Plot: Tight, suspenseful, and gripping. Can't argue with something like
that.
Plot Handling: Extremely nice. LeVar Burton is turning into a very capable
director.
Characterization: Not a false note to be found.
OVERALL: An easy 10. Keep this one for posterity.
NEXT WEEK:
Worf's foster brother and the Prime Directive -- two things that just
shouldn't mix, it seems...
Tim Lynch (Harvard-Westlake School, Science Dept.)
BITNET: tlynch@citjulie
INTERNET: tly...@juliet.caltech.edu
UUCP: ...!ucbvax!tlynch%juliet.ca...@hamlet.caltech.edu
"I don't know. I think the resemblance is rather striking. Wouldn't you
agree, Number One?"
"Isn't there something else you have to do?"
-- Riker [imitating Picard] and Picard
--
Copyright 1994, Timothy W. Lynch. All rights reserved, but feel free to ask...
Matthew J Smedley
Lynch) says:
[almost all of review deleted...not to be mean or anything :)]
>-- No *wonder* I was reminded a little bit of "Face of the Enemy". Besides
>the obvious Romulan presence, John Debney did the music for both, and damned
>well. Give this guy some more work.
Actually, no. Don Davis did the score for "Face of the Enemy" and John Debney
scored DS9's "The Nagus" that same season. I think you mixed them up. I
imagine with only two composers they have to have at least a few episodes
scored by guest composers. It's always nice to hear new music and musical
style every once and awhile.
-Matt
__________________________________________________________
| * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *|
| Matt Smedley * * * * * * * * * * * |
| MJS...@psuvm.psu.edu (Internet) * MJS174@psuvm (Bitnet) *|
| MJS...@cac.psu.edu (Internet) * MJS...@psu.edu* * * |
|__________________________________________________________|
Henry Big Hank Liang
In article <2hal20$m...@gap.cco.caltech.edu> tly...@juliet.caltech.edu writes:
>
>When they reach the system, they find it consisting primarily of asteroid
>debris, making scans slow and difficult. A Romulan warbird that's also
>exploring the system drops by to exchange "pleasantries", and its commander
>promises to remain in the area a while longer.
This scene with the Romulan commander was terrific fun. I loved the
not-so-subtly veiled comments that both the Romulan and Picard made to
each other -- each Captain looked just shifty enough to convey to each
other (and the audience) that they knew the other knew what was going on,
and that they both didn't like it.
>Most of the teaser wasn't related at all, but "Captain Picard Day" had me in
>stitches the whole scene. I enjoyed the scene as a whole immensely, but more
>than anything I just about died at seeing Frakes's Patrick Stewart impression
>actually make it in front of the camera.
Me, too! Great stuff. :)
>-- Okay, someone has to ask: were Lisa and I the only ones expecting to see
>Red Lectroids clinging to the rock face as the Enterprise was phasing
>through? :-)
Okay, I gotta ask: What's a Red Lectroid?
--
Henry "Big Hank" Liang | "To boldly go where no one has gone
lia...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu | before ... and blow them out of the
GEnie: H.LIANG, Plane #2189 | sky, spreading their flaming wreckage
666th FS Internet Daemons | all over the countryside." "!2!"
David Ayres
"I haven't seen Terry O'Quinn in the past, but I've heard
good things about him, and if this performance was any
indication they're well deserved; he made Pressman
powerful enough that Riker as an ensign couldn't be
expected to resist him, but also extremely flawed."
Terry O'Quinn also made an appearance in--you guessed it--"LA Law",
where he played a convict/attorney opposing D.A. Zoe Clemmons.
More great acting from this man, capped off with an excellent final
scene. :)
--
__o
_ \<._ David
(_)/ (_) (day...@freenet.scri.fsu.edu)
Uday Paul
"Big Hank" Liang) says:
>
>>-- Okay, someone has to ask: were Lisa and I the only ones expecting to see
>>Red Lectroids clinging to the rock face as the Enterprise was phasing
>>through? :-)
>
>Okay, I gotta ask: What's a Red Lectroid?
>
>
in your review because I was half expecting to see the Big-E covered
with sucker-faced-koosh-balls-covered-with-slime.
Secondly Red-Lectroids are the opposite to Black-lectroids o
OF COURSE! (Obviously not a fan of the movie "Buckaroo Banzai"
Red Lectroids were the "villans" in this movie and apparantly when
"Buckaroo" phased his Ford pickup truck into a cliff he encountered
red lectroids in the "parellel universe" where some of the "bad"
red lectroids had been stored.
"Home is where you hang your hat!"
-John Lithgow in "Buckaroo Banzai"
Lukas Kendall
> Actually, no. Don Davis did the score for "Face of the Enemy" and John Debney
> scored DS9's "The Nagus" that same season. I think you mixed them up. I
> imagine with only two composers they have to have at least a few episodes
> scored by guest composers. It's always nice to hear new music and musical
> style every once and awhile.
Debney also did "Progress" for DS9 last year. Don Davis' score for "Face
of the Enemy" was great, but the producers hated it so he won't be back.
Check out Debney's music for seaQuest DSV--it's great! It shows that all
of these guys are so talented, they can do anything, providing it's what
the producers want.
Lukas Kendall
Timothy W. Lynch
[I write]
>>-- No *wonder* I was reminded a little bit of "Face of the Enemy". Besides
>>the obvious Romulan presence, John Debney did the music for both, and damned
>>well. Give this guy some more work.
>Actually, no. Don Davis did the score for "Face of the Enemy" and John Debney
>scored DS9's "The Nagus" that same season. I think you mixed them up.
Ouch. Quite right -- and here I thought I'd really caught a good musical
parallel. Damn. :-) (I think I'd remember Debney more from "Progress" than
from "The Nagus", though -- the music in the former was much more memorable.)
In any case, Debney did a nice job here.
Tim Lynch
Marshall Levin
So the Federation agreed "never" to develop cloaking technology? A much more
feasible (for future plots, at least) would be for them to find a loophole
which prevented them from using it against the Romulans. It would come in
extremely handy against the Borg.
Matthew J Smedley
Kendall) says:
[I wrote in response to Tim Lynch mistakenly attributing last year's "Face
of the Enemy Score" to John Debney.]
>Debney also did "Progress" for DS9 last year. Don Davis' score for "Face
>of the Enemy" was great, but the producers hated it so he won't be back.
I understand that the TNG producers dislike real thematic music, and I'm
assuming that is why they disliked Davis' score as you state, but if that is
the case, why did they invite Debney back and are not going to (as you say)
invite Davis back to guest score? Debney's score seemed pretty thematic to
me. Is there something I am missing?
>Check out Debney's music for seaQuest DSV--it's great! It shows that all
>of these guys are so talented, they can do anything, providing it's what
>the producers want.
I agree, and it is a shame that the TNG producers aren't into thematic music
as some of us would want. Nonetheless, Chattaway, McCarthy and the guest
composers have still written some great stuff. I don't want to start you up
again about the TNG producers, who I know you *love*, Lukas :), I just wanted
to say I enjoy the music for whatever it is, even though I know the producers
could be a lot more "music-friendly." Incidentally, the DS9 producers, even
though they are under the same Berman regime, do seem to be allowing more
leeway with the music done for the show, I think. For example, I really
enjoyed Chattaway's work on "Necessary Evil," which seemed more thematic.
On another note entirely, I've wondered since DS9 began and they've used the
same two composers (McCarthy and Chattaway) how they have gotten away with
only having guest composers score either show four times since DS9 began.
How can they do this? Are they giving them less time per episode, less music
per episode (I haven't noticed this), or what? I had the impression that
when they just had to do TNG things were pretty busy, so it seems like things
would be very busy with the two shows.
One final question: any idea who will score the TNG movie? When do they
usually choose the composer?
-Matt
Lukas Kendall
> [I wrote in response to Tim Lynch mistakenly attributing last year's "Face
> of the Enemy Score" to John Debney.]
> >Debney also did "Progress" for DS9 last year. Don Davis' score for "Face
> >of the Enemy" was great, but the producers hated it so he won't be back.
> I understand that the TNG producers dislike real thematic music, and I'm
> assuming that is why they disliked Davis' score as you state, but if that is
> the case, why did they invite Debney back and are not going to (as you say)
> invite Davis back to guest score? Debney's score seemed pretty thematic to
> me. Is there something I am missing?
I'm not sure. We'll see if Debney is brought back--his scores for DS9's
The Nagus and Progress were pretty mellow. Davis might have been a
personality thing, the fact that he sort of knew what they didn't
want and gave it to them anyway his first time out. (He got a round of
applause from the musicians after recording his score, like that matters.)
Don will be doing some seaQuests, however, in the new few weeks, where
he can really let it rip. He's a brilliant composer; he just did some
orchestrating/ghostwriting for James Horner on We're Back and Pelican Brief.
> >Check out Debney's music for seaQuest DSV--it's great! It shows that all
> >of these guys are so talented, they can do anything, providing it's what
> >the producers want.
> I agree, and it is a shame that the TNG producers aren't into thematic music
> as some of us would want. Nonetheless, Chattaway, McCarthy and the guest
> composers have still written some great stuff. I don't want to start you up
> again about the TNG producers, who I know you *love*, Lukas :), I just wanted
> to say I enjoy the music for whatever it is, even though I know the producers
> could be a lot more "music-friendly." Incidentally, the DS9 producers, even
> though they are under the same Berman regime, do seem to be allowing more
> leeway with the music done for the show, I think. For example, I really
> enjoyed Chattaway's work on "Necessary Evil," which seemed more thematic.
From what I understand, the producers have lightened up somewhat on
the music this year, especially on DS9. I haven't been watching the show
except on occasion. I don't know if any of it is the fallout from
that last Cinefantastique article I did, from which I was told that
Rick Berman got all pissed off and yelled at Wendy Neuss not to dick
with the music. (This is the passing-the-buck approach by the boss to
the underling.) Peter Lauritson is in charge of the DS9, and he is the
most humorless character you can imagine--he just sits there like a fat
tub and makes comments like, "That was okay... but what was that screeching
thing coming out of the back?" I heard that Dennis McCarthy actually talked
back a couple of times. Once when Lauritson started to dictate changes,
Dennis just said, "Look, we'll do it once this way, and if you don't like
it I'll do another version. Roll the tape." Another time, when Berman
complained about something at the dub and how he didn't like something,
I'm told Dennis just said, "Well you're the only one." Cool! (I can
freely state second-hand info on this on Internet because nobody cares
about background music anyway. Entertainment Weekly, are you there?)
> On another note entirely, I've wondered since DS9 began and they've used the
> same two composers (McCarthy and Chattaway) how they have gotten away with
> only having guest composers score either show four times since DS9 began.
> How can they do this? Are they giving them less time per episode, less music
> per episode (I haven't noticed this), or what? I had the impression that
> when they just had to do TNG things were pretty busy, so it seems like things
> would be very busy with the two shows.
I've wondered about this myself. Apparently, they just go crazy composing.
Dennis can go a lot faster than Jay, who is newer to TV music, so often
he'll take the extra shows. Ron Jones was the slowest of all, often
showing up at scoring sessions without all the music written, another
reason he was canned towards the end of season four.
> One final question: any idea who will score the TNG movie? When do they
> usually choose the composer?
No idea at this point. Composers can be chosen at different times of the
production process. One would assume Dennis McCarthy would get a shot
at the big screen, though they might screw him over and get a regular
feature composer. It depends on how much this movie looks like the TV show
and how much influence Berman's perculiar tastes have on all aspects
of the production. I'd love to see Basil Poledouris (Conan, Robocop, Red
October) take a shot at it--he was going to do Star Trek VI at one point,
but there wasn't enough $$$ in the budget for him.
Lukas Kendall
Jason M. Robertson
tend to haevily favor bringing back Jerry Goldsmith from the Motionless Picture.
I thought that his work there was the films best part.
Any opinions?
Jason M.Robertson
Grenadier
>
>
> "I haven't seen Terry O'Quinn in the past, but I've heard
> good things about him, and if this performance was any
> indication they're well deserved; he made Pressman
> powerful enough that Riker as an ensign couldn't be
> expected to resist him, but also extremely flawed."
>
>Terry O'Quinn also made an appearance in--you guessed it--"LA Law",
>where he played a convict/attorney opposing D.A. Zoe Clemmons.
>More great acting from this man, capped off with an excellent final
>scene. :)
O'Quinn also portrayed Howard Hughes in Disney's THE ROCKETEER, and
the father of the female figure skater in THE CUTTING EDGE.
--
"If I speak, I am condemned. David Stumme
If I stay silent, I am DAMNED!" das...@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
-- Jean Valjean, a.k.a. 24601 das...@ultb.isc.rit.edu
"Les Miserables" GEnie: D.STUMME
ane...@charlie.usd.edu
It might work, but I can't say I thought the rearrangements he did of his TMP
themes for STV were exactly improvements. Goldsmith has a tendency to come up
with exactly two or three motifs then arrange each one five or six different
ways to fit the rhythm of each scene; sometimes it works, sometimes it just gets
really repetitive (This was less true for ST:TMP than for, say, _The_Final_
_Conflict_, in which the main theme was in practically every cue). STV had
the Enterprise theme, the Klingon theme, and the "God" theme, each one stuck
in the obvious place. It was okay, but nowhere near as good as, say, John
Williams' _Empire_Strikes_Back_ (let's seem Paramount find the cash for *him*!)
One thing I miss about TOS is the way Kirk and Spock had their own themes and
the way there was a theme for every emotion. A little overdone at times,
perhaps, but they don't do it *at all* now. I miss it.
Agreed that Goldsmith was the best part of TMP and STV. Often he's the
best music in a TNG episode, where cues often consist of a half note followed
by whole note -- especially during the middle years.
Matthew Gertz
Timothy W. Lynch <tly...@juliet.caltech.edu> wrote:
>WARNING: This article contains potentially dangerous spoiler information
>regarding TNG's "The Pegasus". Those not having seen the episode are urged
>to avoid this article until further notice.
>Wow. Probably the best of the season to date -- certainly the meatiest.
Oh, definitely, definitely. (It also marks the *only* Star Trek episode
to date, IMO, where an admiral has actually acted like an admiral. You
don't get to that position without being, um, assertive. Note that I'm
not implying that all admirals are crooked, mind you.)
>What it felt like, and what it *was* through and through, was a damn
>good Riker piece about coming to grips with bad decisions. I consider the
>facts that it (1) settled the question of why the Federation doesn't have a
>cloaking device, and (2) set things up so Riker won't have to make excuses
>for not being a captain in the film series almost incidental to that fact.
Actually, the last point had only barely occurred to me. Another interesting
point, I think, is that *Thomas* Riker is also guilty, and should be
court-martialed. And I wonder if T. Riker will agree with W. Riker's
reasoning? (Actually, there's room for a lot of this second-guessing if
the two ever come face-to-face again.)
>What's more, this was the sort of "answer" that raises as many questions as
>it ties up. We know now that the Federation has agreed not to develop a
>cloaking device. What we don't know, and what I'm sure will be debated for
>*another* twenty years unless someone decides to give it more detail, is WHY
>they made such an agreement. Regardless of Pressman's methods (more about
>him later), his argument that this treaty was a mistake may have some merit
>to it. (One of my officemates thinks so, and we've already gotten into one
>argument about it, so there's definitely room to maneuver -- either that, or
>I need a life. Take your pick. :-) )
My father (who is Assistant Chief of Staff of Navy Intelligence, and of
Southwest NATO Intelligence on his previous tour) and I always get into
arguments about this type of stuff. This episode, like a few others,
really hit close to home.
>Enough about the long-term ramifications, though. Even within the context of
>the episode, this show spoke volumes, especially about Riker. With someone
>as willing to stand his ground with Picard as Riker has been over the years,
>one might expect it to be a surprise that he *didn't* start out that way --
>but I could see it very easily coming from someone "seven months out of the
>Academy, my head still full of words like 'duty' and 'honor'."
It is absolutely amazing how much military training can change a person
during the training and immediately afterwards. I'm pretty good nowadays
at weighing things morally before making a decision, even when someone in
authority (e.g. my advisor) tells me to do something, and yet, it amazes me
as to how much of a different person I was on the _U.S.S._John Marshall_ --
when superior officers said "jump," I definitely said "How high?!" Most
senior officers I've met have been rather more relaxed than that. (This
"immediate attendance to duty" is another common argument between myself
and my father :-)
>Pressman's character, on the other hand, also spoke volumes, but in a very
>different key. It's difficult to argue conclusively one way or the other
>about the Treaty of Algeron, so I won't try. However, Pressman's methods
>strike me as exemplifying the very worst elements of "intelligence"
>communities. Pressman was convinced what he was doing was right, to be sure;
>but he was convinced *SO* absolutely that any means, no matter how brutal
>or how unjustified it might seem from other standpoints, was justified in
>terms of the end it would bring about. The elements of Starfleet
>Intelligence that were behind this seemed to have an attitude of "we know
>what's best for the Federation, so the rest of the Federation should stay the
>hell out of it" that, frankly, I see enough of in this century to make my
>skin crawl.
Even closer to home on these points :-) I'll repeat, except for the overt
criminality inherent in Pressman, he's the first admiral ever portrayed
realistically in Star Trek. Most admirals in Star Trek are weak and
clueless bureaucrats, or have a rather cliche power agenda, or are simple
non-entities. Pressman's portrayal of personal strength (and, to me, the
simple stern look on his face and attendance to duty) set him apart. (I
still don't think we'll ever get an interesting *sympathetic* admiral
portrayal in Star Trek, though :-)
>-- I still say Lloyd Bridges should have had a cameo somewhere, given the
>title and the genre. ;-)
Well, okay, but TNG isn't BG, thank goodness...
>-- Okay, someone has to ask: were Lisa and I the only ones expecting to see
>Red Lectroids clinging to the rock face as the Enterprise was phasing
>through? :-)
Glenda and I, too... :-) :-)
--
Matt Gertz, mwge...@cs.cmu.edu
Dept. of ECE, The Robotics Institute at Carnegie Mellon University.
David Mears
> WARNING: This article contains potentially dangerous spoiler information
> regarding TNG's "The Pegasus". Those not having seen the episode are urged
> to avoid this article until further notice.
> I am very impressed -- barely a wrong note to be found in this one.
I don't remember you revealing what you (barely) found wrong in the
episode in your commentary to follow. Never-the-less, there were two
things that really bothered me about the episode, and they bothered
me enough that they prevent me from feeling as good about it as I want
to. And they're related to each other.
1) When we find out that the secret equipment is a phased cloaking
device, I expected some reference to the episode where we learned the
Romulans were working on such a device (and apparently without total
success). It was such an obvious tie-in, and considering the nature of
the discussions going on here, it was of utmost importance. And,
2) when the Enterprise pops out of cloak in front of the Romulan
warbird, I would have expected quite a bit of fireworks from the Romulan
captain (and ship! ;-). I highly doubt that a simple message from
Picard saying ``we'll explain everything later'' would have worked.
Considering not only the Romulan's worry about the Federation developing
a cloak (as evidenced by the treaty in the first place), the fact that
the Feds accomplished what the Romulan's failed at would not have gone
over good at all. If I were the Romulan's, I would have done everything
possible to destroy the Enterprise right then and there, and worried
about explaining it later. The Romulans just can't afford to let the
Enterprise get back to Federation space with a working phased cloak.
> That about covers it. So, wrapping up:
> OVERALL: An easy 10. Keep this one for posterity.
It would have been a 10, but these two points seem important enough to
me that I'd have to drop it to around an 8. It's a shame too, as it
really should have been a 10.
> Tim Lynch (Harvard-Westlake School, Science Dept.)
> BITNET: tlynch@citjulie
> INTERNET: tly...@juliet.caltech.edu
> UUCP: ...!ucbvax!tlynch%juliet.ca...@hamlet.caltech.edu
David B. Mears
Hewlett-Packard
Cupertino CA
me...@cup.hp.com
Greg
'enuf
>Most of the teaser wasn't related at all, but "Captain Picard Day" had me in
>stitches the whole scene. I enjoyed the scene as a whole immensely, but more
>than anything I just about died at seeing Frakes's Patrick Stewart impression
>actually make it in front of the camera. Frakes must've been saving that one
>up for *years*, given the smirk he had when he finally got to throw himself
>into it. Great, great fun. (Now I want to see Picard's entry into Commander
>Riker Day, but I suppose I'll live.)
I saw the teaser as related. While talking to the admiral, Picard mentioned that the reason for the event was that he was a "role model". When he mentions that there will be a Riker Day, there is no question that the idea of having Will Riker as a role model seems reasonable. However, considering what we learn about Riker during the episode, the idea of a "Riker role model Day" suddenly is not the good idea that it used to be.
I agree that the scene was great fun.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Headline: Federation caught horsing around with Pegasus. Picard claims it was just a phase he was going through.
Charles Beretz
>In article <2hal20$m...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
>Timothy W. Lynch <tly...@juliet.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>WARNING: This article contains potentially dangerous spoiler information
>>regarding TNG's "The Pegasus". Those not having seen the episode are urged
>>to avoid this article until further notice.
>
>>What's more, this was the sort of "answer" that raises as many questions as
>>it ties up. We know now that the Federation has agreed not to develop a
>>cloaking device. What we don't know, and what I'm sure will be debated for
>>*another* twenty years unless someone decides to give it more detail, is WHY
>>they made such an agreement. Regardless of Pressman's methods (more about
>>him later), his argument that this treaty was a mistake may have some merit
>>to it. (One of my officemates thinks so, and we've already gotten into one
>>argument about it, so there's definitely room to maneuver -- either that, or
>>I need a life. Take your pick. :-) )
There are some real-life parallels from the cold war, for example
the ABM treaty limiting production of anti-ballistic missle. Why
limit one's defenses? The logic is that mutually assured
destruction (MAD) was fairly stable; if you have enough nukes to
ride out a first strike and still respond, the enemy will not strike
first. ABMs were believed to upset this logic; that is (and
counterintuitive to most laymen) better defenses actually INCREASED
the chance of war breaking out. This too is why Reagan's Star Wars
program was so controversial.
Applying this reasoning to the Trek universe seems relatively
straightforward. The Romulans need not fear a surprise Federation
attack (assuming the Feds can credibly commit to not developing
cloaking technology) and thus not have to wage a pre-emptive attack
so as to prevent their own destruction at Fed hands, if they so
believed. They could thus turn there attention to other matters
(which they did, until we saw them again in "Romulans" in season
one).
Later,
Chuck
human.from.earth
******************************************************************
*** Political Scientist, UCSD; and Founding President of the ***
*** Society of People Who Would Love to See Rush Limbaugh Lose ***
*** All His Money and Become Dependent Upon the Meager Benifi- ***
*** cence of the Welfare State cbe...@weber.ucsd.edu ***
******************************************************************
Bill Turner
> realistic (there are always going to be some snakes in any garden), and it's
> cautionary (not that those who need the caution will be listening anyway, I
> suspect).
Another episode where this shows through is Gambit part 2, when we
realize that Vulcan ain't a Utopia where everyone is peacefully logical,
either.
> As for Stewart, I'll just say this: I laughed like hell during the teaser,
> but his threat to Riker to drop him as first officer made me feel like I'd
> been kicked in the teeth. That was such a cutting scene that I felt tired
> just watching it, and it's tough to do without both actors involved having
> gone all out. Major compliments to them.
It's easy to show anger (foaming at the mouth, shouting, etc.), but to
show that icy, barely below the surface rage.... I sure as hell
wouldn't want Picard to talk to me with that frozen tone and stare!
--Bill Turner (btu...@cv.hp.com)
Christopher Stone
>
>Another episode where this shows through is Gambit part 2, when we
>realize that Vulcan ain't a Utopia where everyone is peacefully logical,
>either.
Where do we learn this? If you are referring to the mind-control weapon,
that existed prior to Sarek's reforms. If you are referring to the
character played by Robin Curtis, are we a) certain that she was Vulcan,
and not Romulan, and b) not forgetting that she was one Vulcan among
several billion, and therefore can hardly serve as the basis for the
above generalization anymore than Sybok or T'Pring could?
--
////// // // ////// // ////// Christopher Stone
// // // // // // // cst...@husc.harvard.edu
// ////// ///// // ////// (617) 493-7523
// // // // // // // 366 Lowell Mail Center
////// // // // // // ////// Cambridge, Massachusetts 02138
Hank Lee
to ALL." "On screen."
MM> device, I expected some reference to the episode where we learned the
MM> Romulans were working on such a device (and apparently without total
MM> success). It was such an obvious tie-in, and considering the nature of
MM> the discussions going on here, it was of utmost importance. And,
Right. I immediately thought of "The Next Phase." Could the Romulans possibly
had obtained information from their Federation spies in the Security Council
and started to build their own phased cloak? Since the project had been
started 12 years ago, a lot of things could happen.
MM> warbird, I would have expected quite a bit of fireworks from the Romulan
MM> captain (and ship! ;-). I highly doubt that a simple message from
MM> Picard saying ``we'll explain everything later'' would have worked.
Yes, that was a sloppy ending. I thought that Picard would at least move the
ship to a strategic locaiton before de-cloaking and opening the communications
channels.
MM> possible to destroy the Enterprise right then and there, and worried
MM> about explaining it later. The Romulans just can't afford to let the
MM> Enterprise get back to Federation space with a working phased cloak.
I guess either the writers were too eager to end the episode, or the Romulan
commander didn't care enough to open fire. But I don't believe 1 Warbird is
sufficient to destroy the Enterprise. They'd probably both end up crippled.
And then there's the fact that the Enterprise has a phased cloak. If they
phased cloaked, the Romulans wouldn't be able to find them, much less hitting
them in a phased state.
Hank CH Lee Rime ->1379 Fido 1:125/27
Internet: hank...@toadhall.com
* RM 1.2 00299 * If Murphy's law can go wrong, it will.
John Lockard
>Okay, I gotta ask: What's a Red Lectroid?
>
Go rent 'The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai'. You'll know within the first
15-20 minutes.......
Dave Davis
>I saw the teaser as related. While talking to the admiral,
>Picard mentioned that the reason for the event was that he was a
>"role model". When he mentions that there will be a Riker Day,
>there is no question that the idea of having Will Riker as a role
>model seems reasonable. However, considering what we learn about
>Riker during the episode, the idea of a "Riker role model Day"
>suddenly is not the good idea that it used to be.
I agree the teaser was related (and funny). 'Picard as role model'-
Riker had, for a time, taken Pressman as a role model, perhaps
('duty', 'honor'); but by the time of TNG, he takes Picard as
'*the* Captain ('There are times when men of good conscience do not
blindly follow orders.'). Riker's choice (as we are shown it)
is to disobey orders and come clean- he did what Picard would have done,
and Picard agrees, in the wrapup.
So, reading between the lines, this and the SickBay scene are neat
little asides that add to the story.
Just nitpicking, though: if Riker had not mentioned the possibility
of using the phased clocking device, what then? They all die?
They try to blast out? (My point is, they wrote themselves, a er,
into a hole....)
Dave Davis, dda...@cass.bull.com "Corp. affilation included only
for purpose of identification."
These are my opinions & activities alone
QOTD:
"Irony, it seems, is like nitroglycerin: too tricky to be
good for much, and so best left in the hands of fanatics or
trained professionals."
Neal Stephenson
Doug Obrecht
>Just nitpicking, though: if Riker had not mentioned the possibility
>of using the phased clocking device, what then? They all die?
>They try to blast out? (My point is, they wrote themselves, a er,
>into a hole....)
Why couldn't they use the shields to blow apart the asteroid? If
an "ancient" star shipcan hold open the doors of a Dysan sphere,
then surely the Enterprise could "expand" its way out. Just a
thought...
--
Douglas Obrecht obr...@rd.aqm.com |"Without deviation from the norm,
The opinions expressed here are mine, | 'progress' is not possible."
not my employer's. QMS Inc. | -Frank Zappa
============================================================================
Todd M. Swan
>> .... I'm not sure it's in keeping with Roddenberry's original idea
>> that the Federation is basically perfect, but I honestly couldn't care; it's
>> realistic (there are always going to be some snakes in any garden), and it's
>> cautionary (not that those who need the caution will be listening anyway, I
>> suspect).
>Another episode where this shows through is Gambit part 2, when we
>realize that Vulcan ain't a Utopia where everyone is peacefully logical,
>either.
And the conspiracy uncovered in ST6. That involved a Vulcan also.
Todd
--
Todd M. Swan - t...@cfc.com - Chrysler Financial, Center Line, MI
Member - SPWWLSSURLA and STBODS - Disclaimer: "I said it, not CFC."
The flame at the heart of a pawnbroker's diamond is a cold fire - Rush
Pat Berry
>In article <1994Jan17....@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> btu...@cv.hp.com (Bill Turner) writes:
>>
>>Another episode where this shows through is Gambit part 2, when we
>>realize that Vulcan ain't a Utopia where everyone is peacefully logical,
>>either.
>Where do we learn this? If you are referring to the mind-control weapon,
>that existed prior to Sarek's reforms. If you are referring to the
>character played by Robin Curtis, are we a) certain that she was Vulcan,
>and not Romulan,
It was implied, but not stated, that she was one of the Vulcan isolationists.
Conceivably, she might be Romulan, but shouldn't there have been a Romulan
ship around to pick her up once she got the resonator?
and b) not forgetting that she was one Vulcan among
>several billion, and therefore can hardly serve as the basis for the
>above generalization anymore than Sybok or T'Pring could?
Look again -- she's being used as a *refutation* of the above generalization.
To disprove a statement like "all Vulcans are peaceful and logical", all you
need is a single counterexample. T'Pring is certainly another. As for Sybok,
I prefer to think that he was merely part of a nightmare Kirk had while camping,
after consuming more bourbon than he should have.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pat Berry | "All NT is, is a Unix where you pay your royalties
Cary, North Carolina, USA | to Bill Gates."
-=- Team OS/2 -=- | -- Bruce Nelson
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William Chen
>
>>Just nitpicking, though: if Riker had not mentioned the possibility
>>of using the phased clocking device, what then? They all die?
>>They try to blast out? (My point is, they wrote themselves, a er,
>>into a hole....)
I thought that was the whole point of the Romulans sealing them in.
They expected to force the Enterprise's hand and make them use the phased
cloak to escape, then they could cpresent direct eveidence that the
Federation had broken the treaty, strengtheneing their hand.
Bill
Timothy Roy
Sunday January 16 1994 07:20, Henry "Big Hank" Liang wrote to All:
H"HL=> From: lia...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Henry "Big Hank" Liang)
H"HL=> Organization: University of Pennsylvania
H"HL=> Spoilers, baby.
Did that work? GoldED prefers not to deal with ANSI.
H"HL=> This scene with the Romulan commander was terrific fun. I loved the
H"HL=> not-so-subtly veiled comments that both the Romulan and Picard made
to
H"HL=> each other -- each Captain looked just shifty enough to convey to
each
H"HL=> other (and the audience) that they knew the other knew what was going
H"HL=> on, and that they both didn't like it.
I liked the way the Rommy was played. I enjoyed the way the commander
said "I've heard so much about you" and then did his best "Picard playing
friendly in a confrontation" imitation. I certainly hope the Romulan
commnander comes back, somewhere.
Timot...@p14.n228.f2613.z1@rochgte.fidonet.org
... Alexander, Klingon warriors do not "choke the gagh"!
Dave Spensley
[...snip...]
>As for Sybok, I prefer to think that he was merely part of a nightmare Kirk
>had while camping, after consuming more bourbon than he should have.
>
Y'know, I've never thought of STV:TFF in that way. In the closing campfire
scene of the movie, I don't believe any reference was made to the "action"
which took place after the opening campfire scene.
Your idea suggests a new, surrealistic twist which I find intriguing! |-)
>--
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Pat Berry | "All NT is, is a Unix where you pay your royalties
>Cary, North Carolina, USA | to Bill Gates."
> -=- Team OS/2 -=- | -- Bruce Nelson
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Dave Spensley / dav...@comm.mot.com / cds...@email.comm.mot.com
"[Garry's show] is like my old show, without me." --Steve Dahl
sa...@feith.com
>Why couldn't they use the shields to blow apart the asteroid? If
>an "ancient" star shipcan hold open the doors of a Dysan sphere,
>then surely the Enterprise could "expand" its way out. Just a
>thought...
Actually... the Dysan Sphere came to my mind during "Pegasus" when... who
was it... Data said that no starship had every entered such a large
enclosed body before. I thought the Dyson sphere -- basically a whole
damn planet certainly qualified as a large body... larger than the
asteroid in the story (or at least it seemed to me)
LL+P,
Sashi German
sa...@feith.com
Larry Tepman
>
> Actually... the Dysan Sphere came to my mind during "Pegasus" when... who
> was it... Data said that no starship had every entered such a large
> enclosed body before. I thought the Dyson sphere -- basically a whole
> damn planet certainly qualified as a large body... larger than the
> asteroid in the story (or at least it seemed to me)
>
Actually, correct me if I'm wrong (and I know somebody will) but isn't a
Dyson sphere an actual sphere around the sun at a specific orbit (usually
in the "window" where M-type planets can be found? That would make it a
lot larger than the asteroid or a planet, _MUCH_ larger. The size of an
entire orbit in diameter. Sure wish I could remember my geometry but the
surface area would be something like 4pi times the radius or something
ungodly large like that. As a matter of fact, a Dyson sphere would
probably take up most of the mass of a solar system. If what Sashi says is
indeed what Data said, he was wrong...
Unless, due to the large volume within the sphere, he did not count it as
an enclosed space.
Brian D. Moore
Unlikely that they thought of this explanation, but a way to resolve this
continuity problem is that Data was referring to the gravitational effects
of being in an asteroid. In a Dyson sphere, which is roughly spherically
symmetric, all gravitational contributions cancel on the inside; i.e., there
is no net gravitational attraction from the sphere on any object *anywhere*
in the interior. The asteroid would, however, due to its lack of spherical
symmetry, and due to the fact that it is not hollow. My approximate 40 lira.
-- Brian Moore
Steven W. Difranco
You missed the point in "Relics". A Dyson sphereproposed by a
living person - Freeman Dyson - would be the size of EARTH ORBIT,
not the size of a planet. It would contain the sun, Mercury, Venus,
and would have its shell at the approximate distancfrom the sun
as the mean distance from the sun to Earth. It would capture the
entire output of the sun for the civilization that constructed it.
ey would have unlimited power available, but the outer planets
of the system would be cut off from the sun. However, it would take
all the matter in Mars, astroids, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune
and Pluto/Charon to construct it. At 1,000 miles thick, it would
be like onion skin at those sizes. The asteroid was almost solid.
--
Steven "Ask me for a Plan to get out of Debt" DiFranco
LDS- 8,000,000 strong and growing
"A person without faith is like a walking corpse."
- Bob Dylan
Daniel Zimmerman
Exactly... Add that to the fact that Data did NOT say "No starship has ever
entered such a large enclosed body before", but rather something along the
lines of "No starship has ever penetrated so deep into a -planetary- body
before", and there's no inconsistency here...
>-- Brian Moore
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Zimmerman - TFF Enterprises Caltech Apple II Archive Admin
MSC #1023, California Institute of Technology Internet: d...@cco.caltech.edu
Pasadena, California 91126-0001 USA AOL: Surak TFF
Patrick Rannou
The Dyson sphere didn't count as an enclosed space because there is a STAR
"inside" the Dyson sphere. i.e. everything around a star is "open space".
Well, think of it by extrapolating this way: We consider ourselves INSIDE
the universe, but the universe is sooooo biiiiig, that when we send a
rocket into orbit we consider that the rocket is sent into OPEN space.
Suppose the universe is just a part of something bigger (i.e. kinda like
some theories that say the universe is just one bubble in a giant sea of
something else that may contain more bubbles, and unless we find the way to
go faster than C we will NEVER be able to leave "our" universe bubble).
Then from the point of view of something that can go from bubble to bubble,
is the inside of a bubble considered open space too?
IMHO yeS: as long as you can travel for several seconds or minutes at
speeds bigger than C and not touch a wall, any CLOSED shape contains "open
space". i.e. space is used here in the "spatial" sense, as in "space ship",
not in the geometrical sense, as in "volume of space". Thus, even though
the interior of the Dyson sphere is an enclosed space geometrically, it is
an open space for the purposes of starship travelling. The Dyson sphere,
after all, is something like 900+ LIGHT SECONDS in diameter! That's a
loooong way to go.
IMHO, "closed space" is anything where your manoeuvrability is greatly
reduced in ALL directions. i.e. go have to slow down to impulse or else
splat. In the case of a Dyson sphere, you could travel at Warp 2 for
minutes before reaching the other end. This is clearly not "enclosed"
enough to allow for movement restrictions.
Now, if when they go to Warp the minimum speed available was 1 billion C,
*maybe* a dyson sphere would then be considered an "enclosed space".
:-)
--
/---------------------------\
| Patrick "Paradak" Rannou. |
| Ran...@info.polymtl.ca |
\---------------------------/
Patrick Rannou
You missed the point in "Relics". A Dyson sphereproposed by a
living person - Freeman Dyson - would be the size of EARTH ORBIT,
not the size of a planet. It would contain the sun, Mercury, Venus,
and would have its shell at the approximate distancfrom the sun
as the mean distance from the sun to Earth. It would capture the
entire output of the sun for the civilization that constructed it.
ey would have unlimited power available, but the outer planets
of the system would be cut off from the sun. However, it would take
all the matter in Mars, astroids, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune
and Pluto/Charon to construct it. At 1,000 miles thick, it would
be like onion skin at those sizes. The asteroid was almost solid.
--
Steven "Ask me for a Plan to get out of Debt" DiFranco
LDS- 8,000,000 strong and growing
"A person without faith is like a walking corpse."
- Bob Dylan
Actually, if the Star inside the Sphere is similar to the Sun, unless you
want to get destertic temperature the Sphere would need to be MUCH BIGGER
than the Earth's radius: think about what the environment on earth would
look like if the earth always presented the same side to the sun. Consider
only the exposed side (like the inside of the sphere), and welcome crispy
toast!
I think the sphere would be as big as the orbit of Jupiter, at least. That
is a few light hours in diameter, at least.
IMHO, this makes for unviable situations: unless you have plants which grow
well in environments where there is always light, and animals which don't
become crazy neither, and you don't want ALL your countries to be of the
same temperature (the temperature wouldn't change with the altitude of
your mountains!), then the best solution is to have a dyson sphere a bit
bigger than the earth's radius, and fill up the earth's orbit with many
earth's, all placed at regular intervals in a ring so that the
gravitationnal distrubances are minimal. The inside of the sphere is then
only used to collect/ solar energy, and dissipate excess heat outside the
sphere. Since the entire sphere would collapse at the poles (unless ya got
really strong engineering gravitics), and since you DON'T want atmosphere
on your solar collectors, you make the sphere a ring instead, with say the
"height" or the ring be say 1000 times the earth's size, the thickness of
the ring be very very small, say only a few meters, maybe even less, after
all, you only need energy collecting equipment, and solar panels can be
quite thin... because with all the "openness" you don't need equipment to
dissipate the excess heat anymore. In some specific spots the thickness is
greater: a few meters, where the electricity is converted into microwaves
and channeled to other parts of the "ring" (to insures it's
stability/integrity), and to the planets (for energy consumption).
Factories on the ring should allow for matter to be converted directly from
ennergy: even if the process is slow, it is useful to repair the ring
itself from meteorite damage (heck, maybe even BUILD the ring from scratch,
one piece "expanding" slowly all by itself, using robotics and the solar
winds for manpower and energy).
On the planets, which wouldn't necesseraily be "big spheres" (though I
don't know how else to do a liveable world with atmosphere and normal
gravity WITHOUT using technobabble), the energy reconverted could be used
for just about anything, including the slight constant repositioning of
each planet so that the ring's integrity is well kept. note that the
distance between two earths is approx 50 light minutes divided by the
number of earth's in the ring. With 1000 earths, it's three light seconds,
about twice the distance from the earth to the moon. Obviously this mean
that a maximum of 100 earths is needed is you want to keep one moon around
each earth (otherwise your beaches won't have these big waves). If you are
ready to just drop the moons, well 1000 planets could be reached. Maybe
even more, but at 10000 earths they would be at only 0.3 light seconds away
from each other, that is about 6.28 times the earth's diameter between the
center of two earth's or 5.28 earth's diameters BETWEEN each earth. I
wouldn't go pass that limit, tough.
The biggest advantage compared to the Dyson sphere in "Relics" is that you
DON'T need weird tech to make it work: if you manage to move the materials
in place, natural laws take hold, and you get normal temperatures, normal
gravity, and a lot of energy to spare.
And unless you want 10K earths, the mass of the remaining planets of the
solar system could be just enough to realise such a thing.
Sure, *IF* you've got the gravitics technology, and want not thousands of
earth's values of space, but MILLIONS of even BILLIONS, then go for the
sphere as Relics showed, sure. Just be sure that a permanent day, and no
waves in your seas, and the same temperature everywhere, and no moon, is
what you really want.
Well, for the "permanent day" thing, actually TWO spheres one inside the
other would work best: the outer sphere's inner side would be filled with
countrysides (except nearer the poles of course, unless ya got real strong
gravitics tech.), while the inner sphere would be VERY thin, made up of
solar panels, but with "huge windows" in it: this second sphere would
rotate very slowly relative the first, and the alternance of the sun being
seen through a window (zone without solar panels) or be hidden by the
panels would create day and night. Thus, the worlds would have half the
superficy of the sphere's surface worth of energy (night lasts for half the
day and thus half the surface of the inner sphere would need to be panels),
while ALL the surface of the inner side of the outer sphere could be
inhabited (again, forget what happens nearer the poles: use the poles just
for even more energy, or you can even leave them "open", like a donut, to
let excess energy/entropy go out the easy way.
Note that when looking at the "sky", by day it would be blue because of the
atmosphere, and by "night" a few pinpoints of lights could be seen... those
areas of the "panels regions" where some specific panels (or panel regions)
are missing and thus let the light pass through. This would create the
illusion of stars, but the biggest reason is that you DON'T want a
"pitchblack" night. Since people will LIVE on these kingdoms, why not go
the artistic ay and have each solar panels "region" contain actually
several "constellations". Since the light needed is actually bigger than a
real night on earth (in the wilderness, I mean), then you could have a
"sky" that is filled with much MORE stars that our own. Intricate patterns
of "stars" could be seen that actually are easy to "decode" and view as
actual "pictures" (or maybe not :-) )
And the most funny thing is that the population capability of such a
"world" would be in the range of the pentillions. Easyly, too.
Especially if you go for the higher tech version, which uses gravitics to
prevent people inside the sphere from falling toward their sun, where the
diameter of the sphere can be measured in light hours instead of light
minutes. Just think about what would happen if the main power plant gets a
power failure...
>;->
Steven W. Difranco
In a previous article, Ran...@info.polymtl.ca (Patrick Rannou) says:
>In article <2hmnud$a...@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> sw...@po.CWRU.Edu (Steven W. Difranco) writes:
>
>
<stuff deleted>
Larry Niven conquored the day/night problem in his novel "Ringworld"
by having huge "shadow-squares" orbiting the sun about where Mercury should be. They cast shadow on parts of the surface to replicate the day/night
cycle of ball shaped planets that revolve beneath the light of their
primaries.
Technoknight
In article <RANNOU.94J...@shannon.info.polymtl.ca>
Ran...@info.polymtl.ca (Patrick Rannou) writes:
Just scroll past this if you read the original already....
|> Since the entire sphere would collapse at the poles (unless ya got
|>really strong engineering gravitics), and since you DON'T want atmosphere
|>on your solar collectors, you make the sphere a ring instead, with say the
|>"height" or the ring be say 1000 times the earth's size, the thickness of
|>the ring be very very small, say only a few meters, maybe even less, after
|>all, you only need energy collecting equipment, and solar panels can be
|>quite thin... because with all the "openness" you don't need equipment to
|>dissipate the excess heat anymore. In some specific spots the thickness is
|>greater: a few meters, where the electricity is converted into microwaves
|>and channeled to other parts of the "ring" (to insures it's
|>stability/integrity), and to the planets (for energy consumption).
|>Factories on the ring should allow for matter to be converted directly from
|>ennergy: even if the process is slow, it is useful to repair the ring
|>itself from meteorite damage (heck, maybe even BUILD the ring from scratch,
|>one piece "expanding" slowly all by itself, using robotics and the solar
|>winds for manpower and energy).
|>
|>
|>The biggest advantage compared to the Dyson sphere in "Relics" is that you
|>DON'T need weird tech to make it work: if you manage to move the materials
|>in place, natural laws take hold, and you get normal temperatures, normal
|>gravity, and a lot of energy to spare.
|>
|>And unless you want 10K earths, the mass of the remaining planets of the
|>solar system could be just enough to realise such a thing.
|>
|>Sure, *IF* you've got the gravitics technology, and want not thousands of
|>earth's values of space, but MILLIONS of even BILLIONS, then go for the
|>sphere as Relics showed, sure. Just be sure that a permanent day, and no
|>waves in your seas, and the same temperature everywhere, and no moon, is
|>what you really want.
|>
|>while ALL the surface of the inner side of the outer sphere could be
|>inhabited (again, forget what happens nearer the poles: use the poles just
|>for even more energy, or you can even leave them "open", like a donut, to
|>let excess energy/entropy go out the easy way.
|>
|>Note that when looking at the "sky", by day it would be blue because of the
|>atmosphere, and by "night" a few pinpoints of lights could be seen... those
|>areas of the "panels regions" where some specific panels (or panel regions)
|>are missing and thus let the light pass through. This would create the
|>illusion of stars, but the biggest reason is that you DON'T want a
|>"pitchblack" night. Since people will LIVE on these kingdoms, why not go
|>the artistic ay and have each solar panels "region" contain actually
|>several "constellations". Since the light needed is actually bigger than a
|>real night on earth (in the wilderness, I mean), then you could have a
|>"sky" that is filled with much MORE stars that our own. Intricate patterns
|>of "stars" could be seen that actually are easy to "decode" and view as
|>actual "pictures" (or maybe not :-) )
|>
|>And the most funny thing is that the population capability of such a
|>"world" would be in the range of the pentillions. Easyly, too.
|>
Uh, yah. For a more complete description, please read Larry Niven's
"Ringworld", "The Ringworld Engineers", and "Tales of Known Space: The Universe
of Larry Niven". A bit more comprehensive. Nothing against you, Patrick.
The idea is a Dyson sphere is nice if all you want is solar energy. For living
space with a minimun of ultra-technology needed for upkeep, Larry Niven's
Ringworld in Known Space was best, with natural laws to stay stable. A
ringworld provides about 300 million Earths of space (less if you like oceans).
It is set to spin around its' star, so you have natural gravity. "Shadow
squares" act as solar collectors, mircowave-energy conduits, and day/night
seperators. You may get a summer-long or winter-short day if the squares move
to block a solar flare. In addition, Niven had the Ringworld itself made of
a magnetic material so electrical currents in the Ringworld floor could
magnetically flare the star as needed. Result? Propulsion, like a giantatic
ramscoop rocket. Don't like your star? Then continue acclerating until you
get a true ramscoop effect. But don't expect U-turns-on-a-dime.
A ringworld is better than a Dyson sphere because you can maneuver a starship
around to the "sunlit" side for cargo, you can see the stars at night, and if
your star becomes unstable, then make it flare predictably to get rid of the
excess energy. Very little maintanance is needed, since spinning the ringworld
makes natural gravity. Niven had attitude adjusters in the form of Bussard
ramjets on the side rim.
Landscape on the Ringworld was not hanging "spheres" but like those split-the-
world-into-five-parts 'flat" maps. The artist on Niven's books does a great
job. Seas were flat, since we humans use only the top 200 feet anyway. If
you want an ocean devoted to the "poor defenseless dophins" [yum - tastes like
tuna!] and whales, then make it 1 or 2 miles deep.
I'd probably make a Ringworld like Niven did, but thicker, if possible. And
have more than one "Repair Center"! Adding a spacelock like ST:TNG's "Relics"
might be nice, but it would have to be with lots of backup force shields for
the atmosphere. Or mountain-seperators....hmmmm....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Generic disclaimer: These thoughts and writings are my own unless otherwise
noted - although Jerrold my twin may think them too.
Jeremy H. Pace | The Vindicator Eph. 6:12
jhp...@eos.ncsu.edu | Technoknight c/2nd Lt. in Wolfpack ROTC
NC State, Raleigh | Computer Engineering
"Peace, through superior firepower." - Minos V motto, ST:TNG "The Arsenal
of Freedom"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Quinn
(obrecht.758912489@imagen) on 1/20/94;
si> Actually... the Dyson Sphere came to my mind during "Pegasus" when...
si> who was it... Data said that no starship had every entered such a
si> large enclosed body before. I thought the Dyson sphere -- basically a
si> whole damn planet certainly qualified as a large body... larger than
si> the asteroid in the story (or at least it seemed to me)
Actually, I believe Data said no starship had ever entered so deeply into a
"planetary body" before; in any event, the Dyson Sphere was clearly a _hell_
of a lot larger than some dinky little planet! Assuming the inside surface
was designed to be M class (we did see some green and blue on the inside,
after all), the Sphere would have a radius of 1 AU -- basically as large
inside as the volume of space of the Earth's orbit! That's a _big_ interval
volume, most of which would be empty space of course.
"Doug the Dog" Quinn, CSP | St. Paul's College, Washington DC | d...@his.com
===========================================================================
Aniheteropyrophilonecrobeastiality (noun) -- the urge to have sex with
furry burning dead teenage cartoon animals of the opposite gender.