selling old Borland software
Karl Brendel
Mark Kuebeler and others:
Hoping (without much faith) that this discussion will stop _soon_, I
would urge all to RTFNNLS (No-Nonsense License Statement). The copy at
hand (inside front cover, TPas 5.0 Ref Guide--later versions had
separate cards with the statement) says:
Borland's No-Nonsense License Statement!
This software is protected by both United States copyright law and
international treaty provisions. Therefore, you must treat this
software _just like a book_, with the following single exception.
Borland International authorizes you to make archival copies of the
software for the sole purpose of backing-up our software and
protecting your investment from loss.
By saying, "just like a book," Borland means, for example, that this
software may be used by any number of people and may be freely moved
from one computer location to another, so long as there is _no
possibility_ of it being used at one location while it's being used at
another. Just like a book that can't be read by two different people
in two different places at the same time, neither can the software be
used by two different people in two different places at the same time.
(Unless, of course, Borland's copyright has been violated.)
End of quotation. All emphasis shown existed in the original. The
remainder of the statement addresses distribution of compiled
programs, sample programs and .BGI files, the proprietary nature of
some files, requirements for copyright notices, warranties, and
governing law.
Nowhere in the statement is any indication given that you cannot sell
old versions, just as you would sell an outdated textbook, as long as
you don't retain a copy of what you sell. Borland says "just like a
book," with a "single exception."
Perhaps you'll be pleased to know that this is probably the only
public statement I'll make on this subject. ;)
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Paul Schwartz
>
> Bunch of stuff about Borland's No-Nonsense License Statement!
>
>
>Nowhere in the statement is any indication given that you cannot sell
>old versions, just as you would sell an outdated textbook, as long as
>you don't retain a copy of what you sell.
>
Alas, over my confussion I called Borland. They said if I want to sell
my TP 5.5 I need to send them a letter agreeing to the following conditions:
I give up all rights to use TP 5.5
I have no copies of TP 5.5 on disk
I have no copies of TP 5.5 on my computer
And, I give up all future upgrade rights to TP 5.5
I'm not sure what that final condition means, but if you are wondering,
B-land can be reached at (408) 438-5300 (to skip the boring voice mail into,
just press 2 twice, that will take you to a customer rep).
So, anyone want to buy my copy of TP 5.5?
- Z -
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Hokkun Pang
upgrade coupons from Borland, each to a different address).
Make me an offer. :-)
Karl Brendel
Schwartz) writes:
>In article <25...@adm.brl.mil>, CDCKAB%EMUVM1...@cunyvm.cuny.edu ( Karl
> Brendel) writes...
>>
>> Bunch of stuff about Borland's No-Nonsense License Statement!
>>
>>
>>Nowhere in the statement is any indication given that you cannot sell
>>old versions, just as you would sell an outdated textbook, as long as
>>you don't retain a copy of what you sell.
>>
> TRUE. But you cannot upgrade a textbook.
It depends on what you mean by "upgrade", I suppose. More to the
point, when Borland said, "just like a book ... single exception",
they gave up all rights to further restrict your disposition of your
old versions...
>
> Alas, over my confussion I called Borland. They said if I want to sell
>my TP 5.5 I need to send them a letter agreeing to the following conditions:
> I give up all rights to use TP 5.5
> I have no copies of TP 5.5 on disk
> I have no copies of TP 5.5 on my computer
> And, I give up all future upgrade rights to TP 5.5
[remainder deleted]
...OR to "require" letters from you before you dispose of your old
versions!
Here's another report from Borland customer service, with a name and
personal extension to check it out. From the RIME (BBS network)
Turbo Pascal conference:
Date: 12-10-90 (21:15) Number: 3198 of 3206
To: ALL INTERESTED PARTIES! Refer#: 3002
From: MIKE ......... Read: NO
Subj: (R)TURBO PASCAL 3 AND 5.0 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
Conf: TURBOPASCAL (245) Read Type: GENERAL
To All Interested Parties,
This thread has been most interesting. Everyone here has
spent considerable time speculating on an issue that could have been
resolved with a simple phone call. Well, enough already. I called
Borland today (12/10/90) to put this issue to rest. I found out
some VERY interesting things!
First: If your upgrade came complete with a full set of manuals
(not just an addendum, such as came with TP 5.5 upgrades), you
may do whatever you wish with the copy that you are upgrading
from. You may give it away. You may sell it. You may burn it.
As far as Borland is concerned, you own it (that's right _OWN_
it) and you can do with it what you wish!
Furthermore, if you transfer ownership of your old version to
someone else, that other party may notify Borland of that fact and
as the new owner (there's that word again!) this person is
entitled to the same fine support that you enjoyed will you owned
(!) the product. In other words:
Ronald Reagan upgrades to TP 6.0. Mommy makes him sell his
TP 5.5. He sells it to George Bush. George calls
Borland and tells them that he just purchased TP 5.5 S/N
1234567 from Ronald Reagan. George may now enjoy
Borland support as a registered TP 5.5 user, Ron may
not. Ron, however, may still enjoy the full support he
deserves as a TP 6.0 user.
And that is what Borland's no-nonsense liscense policy is about.
No need for copyright lawyers to use the product.
BTW, anyone who refuses to take my word for it can call
Borland themselves. Vince said that he didn't mind if quoted him
and referred any callers to him. He can be reached either by
calling Borland's switchboard - (408) 438-8400 - and and asking
for him (he is the only Vince there) or you can call his extension
directly - (408) 439-1315.
[remainder of RIME article deals with the continuing availability of
Turbo Pascal 3 for some systems]
Don't worry about the letters when you sell your obsolete version,
Paul. ;)
Jon Rosen
>In article 49...@dogie.macc.wisc.edu, psch...@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Paul
> Schwartz) writes:
>
>>In article <25...@adm.brl.mil>, CDCKAB%EMUVM1...@cunyvm.cuny.edu ( Karl
>> Brendel) writes...
>>>
>>> Bunch of stuff about Borland's No-Nonsense License Statement!
>>>
>>>
I don't know who Vince is but you are missing a few key elements...
First, does George Bush (of your story) now have the right to upgrade
his newly acquired used version of Turbo 5.5 to T6.0??? If so, it would
seem that ANYONE could get the upgrade price just by passing around the
one copy of Turbo 5.5 that exists... This is clearly not what Borland
would intend to have happen... Second, as noted in an earlier post, you
can't *upgrade* a book... You buy a later version... Usually at full
list (or slightly discounted) price... The problem in the software
industry is that the original manufacturer provides the upgrade path
and that tends to compete with the manufacturer's distributors (ala
Egghead software, etc.)... Since upgrades in software usually cost
LESS than the original (sometimes, much less) there is a real conflict
here. Another point, if a *free* upgrade offer is made to purchasers
of a given version like T5.5 within 30 days of purchase, would it now
be possible for George Bush to buy his copy from Reagan for $1, call
Borland for his free upgrade, sell his T5.5 to Dan Quayle for $1 who
would also call Borland for his free upgrade... ad nauseum...
Anyway, even if Borland does intend for all of the above to be
possible (which I doubt), the obvious intent is to restrict
the use of software to one person (including most upgrades)...
By the way, given the available street price of most software these
days (not list... if you pay list, I have a bridge to sell you)
is so low that the upgrades don't cost much less than the original.
In that case, I suggest buying a new copy (not an upgrade) and
selling the original with a clear conscience... Or, better yet,
if you are philathropical, donate it to your local school or
charitable organization that has a PC and write it off your
income taxes... Yeah, that's the ticket, make Uncle Sam pay for
some of your software... you're paying for his...
Jon R
Robert Salesas
at the time of purchase have been found legally unbinding. This
is true in Canada and (I believe) the United States, from what I've
heard. Anyone hear otherwise?
Rob