The Trenchcoat Mafia Was Right
Nomen Nescio
answer is that these are the people who are seen as future leaders and
managers in America when they become adults. It will be their task to
engineer plans and issue orders to those such as they now bully, brutalize
and rape, a practice they will continue in a different guise later.
The answer is to pick up a gun and use it. That is the only way you will
get justice.
July 14, 2001 Talk about it E-mail story Print
IN BRIEF / SAN BERNARDINO
Case Dismissed in Alleged Hazing Incident
From Times Staff and Wire Reports
A judge dismissed the case against a former Yucca Valley High School
football player who allegedly was involved in the sexual battery of a
teammate.
San Bernardino Superior Court Judge John Wade said Thursday that after two
weeks of testimony, prosecutors had failed to prove the charges against the
youth, now 18.
The former student, whose identity wasn't released because he was tried as
a minor, was among a group of football players accused of sexually abusing
a teammate during an alleged hazing incident at the high school last fall.
Five other juveniles charged in the case entered plea bargains.
DemilinX
news:a53d3acdac5bb129...@dizum.com...
> Why do judges identify with thugs who are members of a football team? The
> answer is that these are the people who are seen as future leaders and
> managers in America when they become adults. It will be their task to
> engineer plans and issue orders to those such as they now bully, brutalize
> and rape, a practice they will continue in a different guise later.
>
> The answer is to pick up a gun and use it. That is the only way you will
> get justice.
Guns aren't the way catepillar.
--
xM錞T W。！錗
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
np: ZAO - Savannah
Alternative PDX Music
http://members.home.net/cnsdave1/pdx/index.html
*meep*
"I don't know why
Depression it comes and goes
Throughout my whole life,
It's something that I've known;
Familiar to me like a recurring dream
One happy moment
The next I am sad
Because it grips me like I've never felt
I'm sorry if I did anything
Can I be of any help?
Can I be of any help to you my friend?"
- No Motiv, "Sunday 6:00PM"
Cuplan
<nob...@dizum.com> wrote:
>Why do judges identify with thugs who are members of a football team? The
>answer is that these are the people who are seen as future leaders and
>managers in America when they become adults. It will be their task to
>engineer plans and issue orders to those such as they now bully, brutalize
>and rape, a practice they will continue in a different guise later.
>
>The answer is to pick up a gun and use it. That is the only way you will
>get justice.
Vengeance is only justice in the immature minds of those who can't
grasp the nature of justice.
--
Cuplan.
"She's just a drug addiction and a self-reflecting
image of a narcotized mind."
-Swans, "Celebrity Lifestyle"
Fog
> >get justice.
>
> Vengeance is only justice in the immature minds of those who can't
> grasp the nature of justice.
>
> --
> Cuplan.
VENGEANCE IS MIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNE!!!!!!!11111
Flip
crosspost in this group unless you have somthing
intelligent to say...
Raydawg
refrain from cross-posting.
Now, as for the fact that "a gun is the answer"...no, it really
isn't...'cause stupid people are only alive because it's illegal to shoot
them...and given the vast amount of evidence against you in that post...it
would be illegal to shoot you.
Ray
"Nomen Nescio" <nob...@dizum.com> wrote in message
news:a53d3acdac5bb129...@dizum.com...
<BIG FUCKING SNIP>
Ian
Raydawg <pimp...@wannabastud.net> wrote in message
news:2rj77.10587$Px1.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Ok, what the fuck does this have to do with music? Nothing...second,
> refrain from cross-posting.
>
> Now, as for the fact that "a gun is the answer"...no, it really
> isn't...'cause stupid people are only alive because it's illegal to shoot
> them...and given the vast amount of evidence against you in that post...it
> would be illegal to shoot you.
No troll spotting badge for you!
Ian
NJSaRcHaSm
>the CEO of the Fortune 500 corporation. A boot on the neck of the majority.
>The only answer is to pull a gun out of your waist band and point it
>upwards at their balls and pull the trigger.
In a way I agree with you. The justice system as a whole is not working. Most
of the people in jail are poor or black or both. But is violence ever an
answer? I don't think so. The sad thing is I don't think there is an answer. If
you kill one, there is always another equally deserving of death. You can never
kill them all.
naylor
Hell Remailer
"Raydawg" <pimp...@wannabastud.net> wrote in message
news:2rj77.10587$Px1.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> isn't...'cause stupid people are only alive because it's illegal to shoot
> them...and given the vast amount of evidence against you in that post...it
> would be illegal to shoot you.
Spoken just like the judge, the prosecutor, the geneticist, the senator,
the CEO of the Fortune 500 corporation. A boot on the neck of the majority.
The only answer is to pull a gun out of your waist band and point it
upwards at their balls and pull the trigger.
>
> Ray
>
> "Nomen Nescio" <nob...@dizum.com> wrote in message
> news:a53d3acdac5bb129...@dizum.com...
>
Ian
news:20010724171553...@ng-cs1.aol.com...
>
> Most
> of the people in jail are poor or black or both.
This doesn't mean the justice system isn't working. Forgive me for saying
this in a PC climate, but do you think it may indicate a pattern in
offending, or should I say a pattern in offending AND getting caught for it?
Ian
Brad McBad
control and a greater sense of responsibility infused into americans with
regard to firearms, then children would not be given weapons, designed
primarily to kill human beings.
Guns can be bought as easily as a computer, a cd player, or any other medium
sized household purchase, And I hate to point it out, but there is a flaw in
this. If people had to go to a gun runner, someone whom most conservative
Americans a la Charlton Heston would consider to be a lowlife, or white
trash scum, then there would be a massive drop in
1. Accidents involving weapons kept loaded.
2. Unbalanced individuals being able to purchase weapons
3. Second hand weapons falling through the thin mesh of firearm registration
and into the hands of real criminals
After the columbine shooting it was the alternative subcultures who got the
railing. As a trenchcoat wearing, dyed black haired gothic male I had to
deal with backlash from peers, my parents and concerned geriatrics . I broke
the noses of three drunked teenagers who attacked me with glass bottles and
bricks. I did not take out a personal vendetta against them and "cap" them.
If attitudes to firearms were tighter then perhaps it would be the NRA who
would be called into question, not marilyn manson, not rammstein.
I know I'm whining, but nobody listens to anyone.
If you have any wish to speak to me, I'm on alt.music.nin, my msn username
is midnig...@softhome.net and my Aol username is currently gothicbrad666.
Thanx
"Nomen Nescio" <nob...@dizum.com> wrote in message
news:a53d3acdac5bb129...@dizum.com...
Patrick Alexander
: Guns can be bought as easily as a computer, a cd player, or any other medium
: sized household purchase, And I hate to point it out, but there is a flaw in
: this.
Um. Guns can't be `bought as easily as a computer, a cd player, or
any other medium-sized household purchase', here in the US. Many guns can't
be bought at all! And... I could just go downtown with some money and come
home with a cd player. I can't just go downtown with some money and come
home with a gun.
Patrick Alexander
`God is a conjecture; but I desire that your conjectures be
limited by what is thinkable.'
--Friedrich Nietzsche
JAMES A BERRY
you can do about that which has already occured - being made fun of - and
avenging it is denying one's right to move on in life. Blowing the shit out
of innocent people isn't going to do shit to help you out. Furthermore, I
guarentee you that those two idiots talked just as much shit about the
"jocks" as the "jocks" did them. Do me a favor and lock yourself in your
cellar so your idiocracy will never grace my presence again.
--
Email: digidis...@hotmail.com
AIM: digidistortions
ICQ: 114876390
Web: http://wig.cjb.net
[p.a.]Kane's Jihad
[another] highschool shotting, an investigation into the availability of
guns and rifles. They managed to get an M16 sold to a 17 year old at a gun
fare and from a shop in a city (forgot name sorry). This guy had an older
man with him, and neither vendor ever stopped to ask age, ID etc...If you
can buy military weapons this easy, I'm thinking pistols and handguns are
like traded for baseball cards in the playground...
I dont approve of the english system of gun control where like almost
everything is banned. This makes illegal gun running pay better. No, just
far tighter controls are in order, full ID and mental health checks so ppl
who like shooting as a sport can get on with it.
Also we all have the right to defend ourselves on our own ground..i.e.
at home. When tony martin, and english farmer shot dead a burglar at his
farm (like the 15th guy that had attacked his property that year), he was
sent to prison. Why the fuck?? The kid was breaking the law, he deserves to
die, he was like 150miles from home!! Criminals like him deserve what they
get. I hope Martin gets out soon as this is a disgrace and I would like to
say I applaude the US death penalty, for as long as the conviction is sound
and proved so, criminals should be made to pay, not allowed to use OUR tax
money to live off, after a crime.
/rant over
--
Regards
[p.a.]Kane's Jihad
co-leader of Clan [p.a.]
www.clanpa.com
AIM: KaneJihad
planetgamess...@waphost.fsnet.co.uk
(remove 'saysdiespammer' to reply)
www.madasafish.com/~planetgames
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"...and remember to check the shotguns in afterward, there'll be no more
hunt trips with office equipment" ... "Hey, I was just field testing the
artillery"
- Scarred City
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Patrick Alexander" <paal...@indiana.edu> wrote in message
news:9jksdf$6qc$1...@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu...
JAMES A BERRY
period!!! That's the whole point! Our society has a major flaw in that we
feel restrictions are the answer. Restricting the actions of the dumb only
goes so far. Education is the answer (I don't mean to sound like a public
service announcement, but...). It is through education that one's mind
developes to a point of understanding that is currently thought of as smart.
How many "smart" people do you hear of killing each other? The answer is
very few. Look at East Asians, who are stereotyped as being super
intelligent. In Japan they have an average of *6* shootings a year. In
America we have sooooooooooo many more than that that it is sickening. The
thing is, what is currently referred to as "smart" direly needs to become
average. If the human race as a whole maintains this level of ignorance and
stupidity, I venture to say we are doomed.
[p.a.]Kane's Jihad
characteristics in ppl, but unless we 'put down' all mentally ill ppl when
they born or lock um up, they will forever be a menace to society, be it
with guns, knives, bricks etc. Education only works if the ppl have the IQ
and ability to recieve it...and a lot dont.
--
Regards
[p.a.]Kane's Jihad
co-leader of Clan [p.a.]
www.clanpa.com
AIM: KaneJihad
planetgamess...@waphost.fsnet.co.uk
(remove 'saysdiespammer' to reply)
www.madasafish.com/~planetgames
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"...and remember to check the shotguns in afterward, there'll be no more
hunt trips with office equipment" ... "Hey, I was just field testing the
artillery"
- Scarred City
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"JAMES A BERRY" <ber...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:kin77.1658$6Z7.30...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
Kevin Talbot
"humankind" in for "society." Humankind should not need to set restrictions
on themselves in order to attain any form of order. Humankind must become
much smarter if we ever wish to achieve Utopia, or even avoid killing
ourselves and going the way of the dinosaurs. You made a good point, but it
is largely in response to my lesser points. I personally don't think America
will be able to achieve a rais in intellect. Atleast not as long as society
is structured the wya it is now. For that we would need to drop everything
and start from scratch, and place philosophers, not politicians in the power
seat. Unfortunately, anyone who attempted that would be sucked under and
become a third world country by way of the consumers of the world.
NJSaRcHaSm
>If attitudes to firearms were tighter then perhaps it would be the NRA who
>would be called into question, not marilyn manson, not rammstein.
Sounds good to me, and I'm American.
naylor
Giggles
>
> THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LIMP BIZKIT!!! don't
> crosspost in this group unless you have somthing
> intelligent to say...
>
--
Ashley
NJSaRcHaSm
>Furthermore, I
>guarentee you that those two idiots talked just as much shit about the
>"jocks" as the "jocks" did them.
Are you a mind reader? Where do I learn your skills? Wait, maybe you used to be
on the football team.
naylor
NJSaRcHaSm
>Education is the answer (I don't mean to sound like a public
>service announcement, but...). It is through education that one's mind
>developes to a point of understanding that is currently thought of as smart.
Oh yea. hehe. No fucking way dude. What does sex education do? Not a whole lot.
How about the DARE program? Not a whole lot. Gun education? It's only going to
make people more interested in guns. And let's face it, many people out there
will stay stupid. Some have learning disabilites or mental problems. Yet they
will still be able to get guns and shoot your fucking head off. Then will you
consider better gun control?!?!
Thanks for your time James,
naylor
NJSaRcHaSm
>This does: Limp Bizkit is seriously awful. A bunch of posers.
Just curious, what are they posing as?
naylor
MaskedFragility
>Ok, what the fuck does this have to do with music? Nothing<
It was a troll, attempting to provoke and incendiate the generalized
type of angst-ridden, bullied, alienated, "jock"-despising, vengeful
teenage mind, underdeveloped in rationality, that tends to be
attracted to any of the bands of the newsgroups it was cross-posted
to. Her or she may have even had the far-out wish of planting the
seed for another school shooting or something of the sort with a
Usenet post.
>....second,
refrain from cross-posting.<
I have continued the cross-posting of this thread. Maybe you'll mind,
maybe you won't.
Ryan, alt.music.marilyn-manson Acting Minister of Sarcasm
-stark-
enlighten us!
> I hate to be a little English spoilsport, but if there was tighter gun
> control and a greater sense of responsibility infused into americans with
> regard to firearms, then children would not be given weapons, designed
> primarily to kill human beings.
>
> Guns can be bought as easily as a computer, a cd player, or any other medium
> sized household purchase, And I hate to point it out, but there is a flaw in
> this. If people had to go to a gun runner, someone whom most conservative
> Americans a la Charlton Heston would consider to be a lowlife, or white
> trash scum, then there would be a massive drop in
>
> 1. Accidents involving weapons kept loaded.
> 2. Unbalanced individuals being able to purchase weapons
> 3. Second hand weapons falling through the thin mesh of firearm registration
> and into the hands of real criminals
>
> After the columbine shooting it was the alternative subcultures who got the
> railing. As a trenchcoat wearing, dyed black haired gothic male I had to
> deal with backlash from peers, my parents and concerned geriatrics . I broke
> the noses of three drunked teenagers who attacked me with glass bottles and
> bricks. I did not take out a personal vendetta against them and "cap" them.
>
> If attitudes to firearms were tighter then perhaps it would be the NRA who
> would be called into question, not marilyn manson, not rammstein.
>
> I know I'm whining, but nobody listens to anyone.
As a gun owner and an American citizen, I say you're full of
shit.
The larger point, however, is that your opinion is irrelevant.
You aren't a US citizen. You have a society that came up very
differently than ours. You hold different things paramount and
almighty.
That's why we left all those years ago. The Colonies simply
didn't agree with the general, and kingly, view on many issues
in Britain, chief among them taxation and gun control, or more
to the point military control of civilian and colonial militia
weapons.
So, when you decide to leave England, come here, naturalize and
contribute to US society by working, living, voting and paying
taxes, I will be more than happy to hear your viewpoints on the
realities of purchasing and using firarms, both legally and
illegally. Until you know specifically what *I* have to do to
legally own a gun in the state of Connecticut (or the 32 other
"right-to-carry" states), you're talking directly out of your
ass. Until you go downtown in any major city in America and buy
a computer, cd player, toaster oven, a stainless Springfield
Armory Fully Loaded model and a Glock 17 (with the ultra-scary
super-huge Mega-Death magazine!) all purchased by simply showing
cash or credit and NO other effort, you come talk to me about
the gun problem in this country. Until then, you're talking out
of your ass.
The only reason I can see for talking out of your ass is that
you're full of shit, and if you open your mouth, you're afraid
the taste will make you gag.
And ladies and gentlemen, we come full circle to my original
point, that "Brad McBad" is full of shit.
--
-[stark]- (now in broadband!)
[jim at kenefick dot net - http://kenefick.net/jim - ICQ 752212]
- - - - - - - - 3 1 3 3 7 e r t h a n y o u - - - - - - - -
"say it. say it."
"your kung fu is the best..."
Kevin Talbot
know that going around and shooting anyone and everyone who ever said
anythign about them is not a good idea... Gun education would just make a
larger portion of the population redneck bastards...
Flip
glad u ain't a trendy little bitch... good for you.
you can think for your self... more people should be
like you..
Kevin Talbot
was soccer and that was 6 years ago. Just making a point that there are a
lot of stupid people out their that don't see the hypocrisy in their own
actions... btw, my name is Kevin, but my configuration was messed up
earlier... (james is my dad)
-stark-
> Why do judges identify with thugs who are members of a football team? The
> answer is that these are the people who are seen as future leaders and
> managers in America when they become adults. It will be their task to
> engineer plans and issue orders to those such as they now bully, brutalize
> and rape, a practice they will continue in a different guise later.
>
> The answer is to pick up a gun and use it. That is the only way you will
> get justice.
They're dead.
D E A D.
They aren't alive anymore. They expired. Shuffled off this
mortal coil. Took a dirtnap. Crossed over. Passed the veil.
They're sleeping with the fishes, see?
How in the name of all great Satan's fucksticks did they get
"justice?"
Merriam-Webster defines justice as follows:
Main Entry: jus·tice
Pronunciation: 'j&s-t&s
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English & Old French; Old
English justice, from Old French justice, from Latin justitia,
from justus
Date: 12th century
1 a : the maintenance or administration of what is just
especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or
the assignment of merited rewards or punishments b : JUDGE c :
the administration of law; especially : the establishment or
determination of rights according to the rules of law or equity
2 a : the quality of being just, impartial, or fair b (1) : the
principle or ideal of just dealing or right action (2) :
conformity to this principle or ideal : RIGHTEOUSNESS c : the
quality of conforming to law
3 : conformity to truth, fact, or reason : CORRECTNESS
Nothing those two did remotely resembles justice. On a
philosophical level, I think one would kinda want to be here to
revel in the justice one dispensed...Otherwise it's a greek
tragedy and no one gets the brass ring.
You know, that's the fucking problem in this country...no one
thinks about what they say or do any more...they just spew their
bile out of spoiled, undisciplined mouths and yell about what
the world owes them.
Got picked on? SO FUCKING WHAT. So did I. I learned to fight.
Got ridiculed? SO FUCKING WHAT. So did I. Do something to
change it. Start a band, write a book, fucking play football if
you have to. I am living proof that it works. I really wasn;t
liking getting pounded week after week on a football field, but
being on the team got my friends talking to the jocks and things
were fucking great after that. We all got along, and *I* was
the lynchpin for a crew of about 40 friends. It can be done,
and 40 people can influence 400. You can turn an entire school
if you really tried. The point is, if you care so much about
what other people say and how they treat you, then do something
to elicit the behavior you want or shut your fucking cry-hole.
Got slammed up against a locker and called a freak? SO FUCKING
WHAT. Either fly your freak flag and learn to fight, or take it
like a weakling, because if there's one thing I have learned in
my damn near 31 years of life, it's that you cannot EVER rid the
world of the uncouth, the bullies, the football captains of the
world.
The best you will *EVER* do is make sure these people don't fuck
with you or anyone you love. SO get off your pasty white, dead
flower-carrying, black velvet cloak of night, blood is my pain
gothity-goth *ASS* and *do* something to affect a change that
doesn't include ending someone's life.
Since when did high-school bullshit go from ass-kickings to
thinking it's cool to kill? Got your ass kicked? LEARN TO
FIGHT, you fucking pussy. Take self-defense classes. Learn
karate. Box. Learn to fight dirty. Just fucking do something
and stop pissing and moaning. And most of all, realize that you
don't have the right to kill someone unless they are about to
kill you...and some believe not even then. Getting tormented by
football bullies is NOT grounds for killing.
No, I don't feel strongly about this at all.
-stark-
> control and a greater sense of responsibility infused into americans with
> regard to firearms, then children would not be given weapons, designed
> primarily to kill human beings.
>
> Guns can be bought as easily as a computer, a cd player, or any other medium
> sized household purchase, And I hate to point it out, but there is a flaw in
> this. If people had to go to a gun runner, someone whom most conservative
> Americans a la Charlton Heston would consider to be a lowlife, or white
> trash scum, then there would be a massive drop in
>
> 1. Accidents involving weapons kept loaded.
> 2. Unbalanced individuals being able to purchase weapons
> 3. Second hand weapons falling through the thin mesh of firearm registration
> and into the hands of real criminals
>
> After the columbine shooting it was the alternative subcultures who got the
> railing. As a trenchcoat wearing, dyed black haired gothic male I had to
> deal with backlash from peers, my parents and concerned geriatrics . I broke
> the noses of three drunked teenagers who attacked me with glass bottles and
> bricks. I did not take out a personal vendetta against them and "cap" them.
>
> If attitudes to firearms were tighter then perhaps it would be the NRA who
> would be called into question, not marilyn manson, not rammstein.
>
> I know I'm whining, but nobody listens to anyone.
--
Jay Em
imagine what would happen were you to weild a weapon in public
you can't say its a matter of intelligence, cause its really a matter of
what the government is willing to go to prevent crimes
japan's system is basically far too different to compare it to the american
justice system
"JAMES A BERRY" <ber...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:kin77.1658$6Z7.30...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
Miska
i have to say i was moved strongly by what you said *applause*
I agree, killing someone because they hassled you is no way fair and just.
if they were about to fire a gun at you then sure i'd feel inclined to wanna
be the one to fire the 1st shot.
good on you for having the strength to get past the BS in your life and good
on you for having the guts to tell it like it is online :-)
PEACE!
--
DON'T MISS THE CRUCIBLE...
11-18 August @ WEL ENERGY TRUST ACADEMY OF PERFORMING ARTS
Check out www.thecrucible.co.nz for more info!
Jay Em
"JAMES A BERRY" <ber...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:K9n77.1647$Te7.30...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
Cuplan
>In a way I agree with you. The justice system as a whole is not working. Most
>of the people in jail are poor or black or both.
It's amazing, but most of the people commiting violent crimes are
poor, in a racial minority, or both. Seems to me that they're being
taken to justice just fine.
>But is violence ever an
>answer? I don't think so. The sad thing is I don't think there is an answer. If
>you kill one, there is always another equally deserving of death. You can never
>kill them all.
Initiation of force is never, IMHO, a correct way to resolve anything.
That goes for everyone, including the government.
--
Cuplan.
"She's just a drug addiction and a self-reflecting
image of a narcotized mind."
-Swans, "Celebrity Lifestyle"
Cuplan
<midnig...@softhome.net> wrote:
>I hate to be a little English spoilsport, but if there was tighter gun
>control and a greater sense of responsibility infused into americans with
>regard to firearms, then children would not be given weapons, designed
>primarily to kill human beings.
You're an English spoilsport. IMHO, what's needed is, in fact, a
greater sense of responsibility, but that can't be created through
law. I'd rather deal with the irresponsible than have my freedoms
taken away, though, so I disagree with your point of view.
Also, keep in mind that you already live in a country where firearm
ownership is radically restricted, and I'm willing to suspect that
means you have a distorted view when it comes to firearms.
>Guns can be bought as easily as a computer, a cd player, or any other medium
>sized household purchase, And I hate to point it out, but there is a flaw in
>this.
Sorry, but you're factually wrong. In the US, most firearms cannot be
purchased as easily as a computer, cd player, or any other appliance.
The US government certainly does not track the serial numbers of my cd
player. The US government also doesn't have a waiting period on
buying a toaster. The US government certainly doesn't check to see if
I have a criminal background when I buy a computer.
>If people had to go to a gun runner, someone whom most conservative
>Americans a la Charlton Heston would consider to be a lowlife, or white
>trash scum, then there would be a massive drop in
>
>1. Accidents involving weapons kept loaded.
How is owning a firearm illegally going to improve ownership
responsibility?
>2. Unbalanced individuals being able to purchase weapons
That doesn't follow. Do gun runners administer psych tests to their
customers?
>3. Second hand weapons falling through the thin mesh of firearm registration
>and into the hands of real criminals
Of course not, since the criminals would still be getting their guns
from gun runners or people doing fencing for them, and so we'd just
see clearly that the crooks get the guns illegally.
>If attitudes to firearms were tighter then perhaps it would be the NRA who
>would be called into question, not marilyn manson, not rammstein.
I disagree. If people understood exactly where firearms belonged in
their lives, then the dead kids would be the ones eyes would turn to,
and that's the only place eyes ought to turns.
>I know I'm whining, but nobody listens to anyone.
Yup. You're whining. You also are just picking an alternate
reactionary stance.
>If you have any wish to speak to me, I'm on alt.music.nin, my msn username
>is midnig...@softhome.net and my Aol username is currently gothicbrad666.
Thank you. I've pared down the crossposting accordingly.
Cuplan
<plane...@waphost.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>ok for English readers, I saw on Newsnight about 4 months ago after
>[another] highschool shotting, an investigation into the availability of
>guns and rifles. They managed to get an M16 sold to a 17 year old at a gun
>fare and from a shop in a city (forgot name sorry). This guy had an older
>man with him, and neither vendor ever stopped to ask age, ID etc...If you
>can buy military weapons this easy, I'm thinking pistols and handguns are
>like traded for baseball cards in the playground...
Then you're wrong. Also, you're describing an illegal purchase, which
is essentially that of going to a "gun runner." You probably don't
know this, but Harris and Klebolds broke 25 firearms laws in their
acquisitions. Why were they not caught beforehand? Because gun laws,
by their nature, only restrict LEGAL purchases. Illegal purchases, on
the other hand, continue to be illegal, and people still do it. Since
virtually no money is put into enforcing our existing laws
efficiently, no progress is made. Gun control laws are always "feel
good" laws. The mere passing of them makes people feel good, and
that's enough to get another vote from the constituents.
> I dont approve of the english system of gun control where like almost
>everything is banned. This makes illegal gun running pay better. No, just
>far tighter controls are in order, full ID and mental health checks so ppl
>who like shooting as a sport can get on with it.
US firearm laws regulating the legal purchase of firearms already
require that a background check be run, which checks the purchaser's
history of both criminal acts and outbursts of poor mental health that
have caught the attention of the courts. Again, these laws will only
further regulate legal transactions. Those who do their work
illegally continue to do their work illegally.
> Also we all have the right to defend ourselves on our own ground..i.e.
>at home. When tony martin, and english farmer shot dead a burglar at his
>farm (like the 15th guy that had attacked his property that year), he was
>sent to prison. Why the fuck?? The kid was breaking the law, he deserves to
>die, he was like 150miles from home!! Criminals like him deserve what they
>get. I hope Martin gets out soon as this is a disgrace and I would like to
>say I applaude the US death penalty, for as long as the conviction is sound
>and proved so, criminals should be made to pay, not allowed to use OUR tax
>money to live off, after a crime.
It's actually more expensive to execute a man than to send him to
prison for life. That divergence in costs can be further reduced if
hard labor became a staple in prison. The death penalty is nothing
but a legally sanctioned form of murder, and I consider it a violation
of a man's rights (which I consider to be of divine origin) to the
most extreme degree to be murdered by anyone and for any reason.
Governments deserve no special place in the world of ethics.
Governments are emergent functions of groups of people, and people are
certainly subject to ethical considerations.
NJSaRcHaSm
>The larger point, however, is that your opinion is irrelevant.
>You aren't a US citizen. You have a society that came up very
>differently than ours. You hold different things paramount and
>almighty.
I live in America. I want to feel safer. Is there less death in England? Is it
due to better gun control laws?? If it is I'm for less death by guns.
naylor
Cuplan
<ber...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>In Japan they have an average of *6* shootings a year.
Ever gone looking for a gun shop in Japan?
Cuplan
<plane...@waphost.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>but the Japanese have a different attitude. We can try to instil the good
>characteristics in ppl, but unless we 'put down' all mentally ill ppl when
>they born or lock um up, they will forever be a menace to society, be it
>with guns, knives, bricks etc. Education only works if the ppl have the IQ
>and ability to recieve it...and a lot dont.
IIRC, mental dysfunction accounts for only a tiny proportion of the
violence in the world as a whole, and thus it should be on a very low
priority when it comes to reducing the total amount of violence
worldwide.
Cuplan
>Oh yea. hehe. No fucking way dude. What does sex education do? Not a whole lot.
Proper sex education does make kids more likely to use contraception.
>How about the DARE program?
DARE isn't an education program presenting facts about drug use and
properly steering minds in a way that they can make their own
decisions. DARE is a propaganda system, and it's so obvious that kids
come out of it more likely to use drugs. Drug "eduacation" is one
reason I studied MDMA (Ecstasy) for nine years- the lack of any
possible educational experience from what I was offered was so great
that I realized I was being duped.
>Not a whole lot. Gun education?
Actually, the NRA has won at least one award for its Eddy Eagle gun
safety education program, and there are signs that it works.
>It's only going to make people more interested in guns.
Depends on how it's done. Know what my gun education was? My father
took me out in the woods and made me watch as he blew a sapling to
splinters with a shotgun. He followed the demonstration up with-
"Anything you point this gun at will end up like that tree." It
effectively scared me to the point that I am still nervous holding a
handgun that I've repeatedly checked.
>Yet they [the mentally ill]
>will still be able to get guns and shoot your fucking head off. Then will you
>consider better gun control?!?!
IIRC, mental dysfunction accounts for only a small percentage of total
gun violence in the US as well.
Cuplan
Maybe, but you're stupid.
In fact, you're so stupid that you don't even realize that the person
initiating this thread is on alt.music.nin, and thus your posts will
never reach him.
NJSaRcHaSm
>Maybe, but you're stupid.
>
>In fact, you're so stupid that you don't even realize that the person
>initiating this thread is on alt.music.nin, and thus your posts will
>never reach him.
Awww fuck!! What do I do now?!?!
naylor
Cuplan
<digidis...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>you're misinterpretting. I mean educated souls will be intelligent enough to
>know that going around and shooting anyone and everyone who ever said
>anythign about them is not a good idea... Gun education would just make a
>larger portion of the population redneck bastards...
Oh, so now I'm a redneck bastard, am I?
Go get a fucking clue.
Cuplan
wrote:
>As a gun owner and an American citizen, I say you're full of
>shit.
Hear hear. I'm a proud firearm owner. Soon, I'll have my concealed
carry permit, too.
>The larger point, however, is that your opinion is irrelevant.
>You aren't a US citizen. You have a society that came up very
>differently than ours. You hold different things paramount and
>almighty.
Especially when it comes to things like self-determination and
personal freedom.
Cuplan
>I live in America. I want to feel safer. Is there less death in England? Is it
>due to better gun control laws?? If it is I'm for less death by guns.
There is less violent crime per capita. Is it due to better gun
control laws? That's debatable. England doesn't have half the race
problems we do, and England's got a different structure for dealing
with the poor.
I'm for freedom, and that's still what America ought to be about. If
you want security, move to a country that focuses on it. Canada's
near New Jersey, so if you start walking now, you'll get there before
too long.
NJSaRcHaSm
>England doesn't have half the race
>problems we do, and England's got a different structure for dealing
>with the poor.
What does the violence have do with race problems?
Cuplan wrote:
>I'm for freedom, and that's still what America ought to be about. If
>you want security, move to a country that focuses on it. Canada's
>near New Jersey, so if you start walking now, you'll get there before
>too long.
I'm all for safety so wherever I can go and not feel the threat of violence,
that's the place for me. But if I pick Canada, (I don't think that would be my
choice), I certainly would not walk there. Maybe jog.
naylor
Wap
> Pronunciation: 'j&s-t&s
I'm sorry, how is that pronounced?
-Wap.
Radixx
<midnig...@softhome.net> wrote:
> I hate to be a little English spoilsport, but if there was tighter gun
> control and a greater sense of responsibility infused into americans with
> regard to firearms, then children would not be given weapons, designed
> primarily to kill human beings.
Wrong, a gun is designed to propel a projectile in an efficient
manner towards it's intended target. Nothing more, nothing less. Are
knives designed to cut human flesh? Are baseball bats designed to crush
human skulls?
> Guns can be bought as easily as a computer, a cd player, or any other medium
> sized household purchase, And I hate to point it out, but there is a flaw in
> this. If people had to go to a gun runner, someone whom most conservative
> Americans a la Charlton Heston would consider to be a lowlife, or white
> trash scum, then there would be a massive drop in
Wrong again, but Stark said it more eloquently (how well the student
surpasses the teacher, heheh)
> 1. Accidents involving weapons kept loaded.
> 2. Unbalanced individuals being able to purchase weapons
> 3. Second hand weapons falling through the thin mesh of firearm registration
> and into the hands of real criminals
So far these are your only actual arguable points. These ARE the kinds
of things that do need to be fixed, and in many ways they are. At
least numbers one and three. You start on a slippery slope when some
agency is given the right to decide who is "unbalanced" and by what
criteria.
> After the columbine shooting it was the alternative subcultures who got the
> railing. As a trenchcoat wearing, dyed black haired gothic male I had to
> deal with backlash from peers, my parents and concerned geriatrics . I broke
> the noses of three drunked teenagers who attacked me with glass bottles and
> bricks. I did not take out a personal vendetta against them and "cap" them.
There is certainly no actual excusing what has happened in ANY of the
tragic school shooting that have occurred. However, I don't think that
taking guns out of the equation would necessarily have changed the
outcome, only the means. Bombs are easy, Bats are easy, knives are
easy. Two teenagers in New Hampshire killed (alledgedly still I think)
two Dartmouth College professors with a "hunting knife". Has there
been an nationwide call to ban knife ownership? I don't remember the
particulars, but a few months ago there was a case of a college student
deliberately driving through a crowd and killing and injuring people.
Has there been a nationwide call to ban cars? Misuse either deliberate,
accidental or with murderous intent or diminished sobriety of
automobiles kills far more people worldwide than do firearms in the
hands of private citizens. Where are the crowds of angry people to ban
them?
> If attitudes to firearms were tighter then perhaps it would be the NRA who
> would be called into question, not marilyn manson, not rammstein.
If intelligence were more widespread and we didn't live in a blame
culture (you in the UK do as well) we would be able to focus on the
things that matter, deeds not devices.
> I know I'm whining, but nobody listens to anyone.
I listen to you and your ilk, but I wish I heard something new every
once in a while.
I own guns, I've sold guns for a living (legally), I know of what I
speak. I also now work in an intensive care unit. Frankly, the victims
of motor vehicle accidents ALWAYS look a hell of a lot worse than the
gunshot victims do.
-Radixx
Ejife, Marifat, Nirvana and Grace
Tony Moriarty
"Wap" <spak...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:p7u77.60760$Xr6.2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
jands-tands
basspike
>
>ok for English readers, I saw on Newsnight about 4 months ago after
>[another] highschool shotting, an investigation into the availability of
>guns and rifles. They managed to get an M16 sold to a 17 year old at a gun
>fare and from a shop in a city (forgot name sorry). This guy had an older
>man with him, and neither vendor ever stopped to ask age, ID etc...If you
>can buy military weapons this easy, I'm thinking pistols and handguns are
>like traded for baseball cards in the playground...
>everything is banned. This makes illegal gun running pay better. No, just
>far tighter controls are in order, full ID and mental health checks so ppl
>who like shooting as a sport can get on with it.
>at home. When tony martin, and english farmer shot dead a burglar at his
>farm (like the 15th guy that had attacked his property that year), he was
>sent to prison. Why the fuck?? The kid was breaking the law, he deserves to
>die, he was like 150miles from home!! Criminals like him deserve what they
>get. I hope Martin gets out soon as this is a disgrace and I would like to
>say I applaude the US death penalty, for as long as the conviction is sound
>and proved so, criminals should be made to pay, not allowed to use OUR tax
>money to live off, after a crime.
>
>
>--
>Regards
>
I do agree that we all have the right to defend our property and that criminals
should be made to pay for their crimes. In the US all states do not have a death
penalty. There are 12 US states that do not have the death penalty. Does the UK
have a death penalty system?
basspike
>[p.a.]Kane's Jihad
>co-leader of Clan [p.a.]
>www.clanpa.com
>
>AIM: KaneJihad
>planetgamess...@waphost.fsnet.co.uk
>(remove 'saysdiespammer' to reply)
>
>www.madasafish.com/~planetgames
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>"...and remember to check the shotguns in afterward, there'll be no more
>hunt trips with office equipment" ... "Hey, I was just field testing the
>artillery"
> - Scarred City
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>"Patrick Alexander" <paal...@indiana.edu> wrote in message
>news:9jksdf$6qc$1...@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu...
>> In alt.music.nin Brad McBad <midnig...@softhome.net> wrote:
>>
>> : Guns can be bought as easily as a computer, a cd player, or any other
>medium
>> : sized household purchase, And I hate to point it out, but there is a
>flaw in
>> : this.
>>
>> Um. Guns can't be `bought as easily as a computer, a cd player, or
>> any other medium-sized household purchase', here in the US. Many guns
>can't
>> be bought at all! And... I could just go downtown with some money and
>come
>> home with a cd player. I can't just go downtown with some money and come
>> home with a gun.
>>
>> Patrick Alexander
>>
>> `God is a conjecture; but I desire that your conjectures be
>> limited by what is thinkable.'
>>
>> --Friedrich Nietzsche
>
>
Miska
<<The death penalty is nothing
but a legally sanctioned form of murder, and I consider it a violation
of a man's rights (which I consider to be of divine origin) to the
most extreme degree to be murdered by anyone and for any reason.>>
that person just CAN'T possibly be responsible for MURDER and should, rather
than die for his actions, simply be left to rot in a cell with the
possibility of getting out of jail before sentence is through and re-offend?
MY ASS!
personally, a human gives up the right to his/her life at the moment they
take another man/woman/childs life. think about it. eye for an eye and all
that?
not everyone was born from god ok, mom and dad fucked and produced you. if
you were to take someone's life then on your head be the punishment, andif
that punishment is death then really, you have no right to complain!
can't to thetime, don't do the crime.
murder is murder, and however legal, an eye really should be for an eye.
gorax
to ban tv
actually a better way would be to identify the psychos that are gonna kill
people and get them the help they need
"Brad McBad" <midnig...@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:3b5de...@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
> I hate to be a little English spoilsport, but if there was tighter gun
> control and a greater sense of responsibility infused into americans with
> regard to firearms, then children would not be given weapons, designed
> primarily to kill human beings.
>
> Guns can be bought as easily as a computer, a cd player, or any other
medium
> sized household purchase, And I hate to point it out, but there is a flaw
in
> this. If people had to go to a gun runner, someone whom most conservative
> Americans a la Charlton Heston would consider to be a lowlife, or white
> trash scum, then there would be a massive drop in
>
> 1. Accidents involving weapons kept loaded.
> 2. Unbalanced individuals being able to purchase weapons
> 3. Second hand weapons falling through the thin mesh of firearm
registration
> and into the hands of real criminals
>
> After the columbine shooting it was the alternative subcultures who got
the
> railing. As a trenchcoat wearing, dyed black haired gothic male I had to
> deal with backlash from peers, my parents and concerned geriatrics . I
broke
> the noses of three drunked teenagers who attacked me with glass bottles
and
> bricks. I did not take out a personal vendetta against them and "cap"
them.
>
> If attitudes to firearms were tighter then perhaps it would be the NRA who
> would be called into question, not marilyn manson, not rammstein.
>
> I know I'm whining, but nobody listens to anyone.
>
> If you have any wish to speak to me, I'm on alt.music.nin, my msn username
> is midnig...@softhome.net and my Aol username is currently
gothicbrad666.
>
> Thanx
>
> "Nomen Nescio" <nob...@dizum.com> wrote in message
> news:a53d3acdac5bb129...@dizum.com...
> > Why do judges identify with thugs who are members of a football team?
The
> > answer is that these are the people who are seen as future leaders and
> > managers in America when they become adults. It will be their task to
> > engineer plans and issue orders to those such as they now bully,
brutalize
> > and rape, a practice they will continue in a different guise later.
> >
> > The answer is to pick up a gun and use it. That is the only way you will
> > get justice.
> >
> > July 14, 2001 Talk about it E-mail story Print
> >
> >
> > IN BRIEF / SAN BERNARDINO
> > Case Dismissed in Alleged Hazing Incident
> >
> >
> >
> > From Times Staff and Wire Reports
> > A judge dismissed the case against a former Yucca Valley High School
> > football player who allegedly was involved in the sexual battery of a
> > teammate.
> >
> > San Bernardino Superior Court Judge John Wade said Thursday that after
two
> > weeks of testimony, prosecutors had failed to prove the charges against
> the
> > youth, now 18.
> >
> > The former student, whose identity wasn't released because he was tried
as
> > a minor, was among a group of football players accused of sexually
abusing
> > a teammate during an alleged hazing incident at the high school last
fall.
> > Five other juveniles charged in the case entered plea bargains.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
NJSaRcHaSm
>I think the easiest way to stop people from shooting each other with guns is
>to ban tv
y?
>actually a better way would be to identify the psychos that are gonna kill
>people and get them the help they need
this is why I do not feel we should have as much access to guns. you CANNOT
easily identify who is a psycho. some people act and/or behave normal most of
their lives but inside they are in distress and if they have a gun in their
home they have access to a powerful weapon that can endanger the lives of many
right at that instant they "snap." and you can say that mental illness or
people that go crazy and use a gun is rare but it sure does happen. do you want
to be in the grocery store or wherever when someone does decide to start
shooting people? I don't. And also isn't it more common for suicidal people to
kill themselves with a gun when it is readily available? It's a lot easier to
fire a gun than to have the courage to slice your wrists.
naylor
Cuplan
>What does the violence have do with race problems?
Racial animosity, especially among the poor, has a documented history
of causing violence.
>I'm all for safety so wherever I can go and not feel the threat of violence,
>that's the place for me. But if I pick Canada, (I don't think that would be my
>choice), I certainly would not walk there. Maybe jog.
Well, there are plenty of countries that will coddle you in exchange
for obscene taxes. Take your pick.
Cuplan
>are you saying that if someone points a gun and shoots someone else dead,
>that person just CAN'T possibly be responsible for MURDER and should, rather
>than die for his actions, simply be left to rot in a cell with the
>possibility of getting out of jail before sentence is through and re-offend?
No, I think that if someone points a gun and shoots someone else dead,
that person is responsible for the murder of another, and should live
the rest of his life in a torturous slave labor camp. If he tries to
escape, I suppose I could see a guard justified in murdering him.
Let me ask you this- who are you to decide if another human being
should die?
>personally, a human gives up the right to his/her life at the moment they
>take another man/woman/childs life. think about it. eye for an eye and all
>that?
Lex talionis (the law of "eye for eye, tooth for tooth") is an absurd
and immature ethos that is ineffective as a system of justice. There
is no reason that a person with a reasonable mind should continue to
hold on to it.
>not everyone was born from god ok, mom and dad fucked and produced you.
I live in a country founded on, among other things, this statement:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created
equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable
Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of
Happiness."
No mention of God. What there is a mention of, though, is that the
sheer fact that a person was created entitles him/her to certain
inalienable rights. The latter two are rights I believe the state
should have the power to revoke if necessary. The first one? I don't
believe any man has the right to revoke that one.
>if
>you were to take someone's life then on your head be the punishment, andif
>that punishment is death then really, you have no right to complain!
So, even if the government creates unjust punishments for crime, we
should let them?
>murder is murder, and however legal, an eye really should be for an eye.
Do you really follow an ethos that immature?
Cuplan
>this is why I do not feel we should have as much access to guns. you CANNOT
>easily identify who is a psycho.
When you can prove that the mentally unstable getting their hands on
firearms is the chief cause of most of the firearm violence in the US,
you'll have a point.
>and you can say that mental illness or
>people that go crazy and use a gun is rare but it sure does happen.
In Florida, it occassionally rains frog, too. So what?
>do you want
>to be in the grocery store or wherever when someone does decide to start
>shooting people?
Doesn't bother me. I know how to handle myself in such a situation.
>And also isn't it more common for suicidal people to
>kill themselves with a gun when it is readily available? It's a lot easier to
>fire a gun than to have the courage to slice your wrists.
Suicidal people should have ready access to instantaneous death, if
you ask me. They're just deadweight.
Kevin Talbot
directly related to popular and unpopular. I will say that Fred Durst is
annoying, and that you have the right to an opinion on the band. I just get
that vibe off you that you watch TRL everyday just so you can say MTV sucks
and you hate the Backstreet Boys.
Kevin Talbot
even fucking know you. Why would I go and be so stupid as to judge someone
who I don't know?
Kevin Talbot
think the average man is too thoughtless to recieve any messages presented
to them about guns. Basically, anyone who would have killed someone while
there wasn't gun control would kill a man when there is. It would howvwer
make the thinking class better protected from both accidents and attacks.
How much of an improvement it would be is up for debate. I personally think
it wouldn't make a big enough difference. Anyways, sorry you took offense to
my earlier statement (thoguh I am not sure why you did).
Kevin Talbot
while murder is thought to take one life. Therefore drugs are punished much
more strongly than murder. It's interesting, then, that by limiting drugs it
limits murder. Not saying we should do it, but just an odd observation.
Kevin Talbot
Kevin Talbot
place to live. they are much less tolerant to stuff than america is.
Kevin Talbot
>problems we do, and England's got a different structure for dealing
>with the poor.
What does the violence have do with race problems? "
you are a fuckign dumbshit... ever heard of the kkk!? lynchings!? on a small
scale that shit is still going on (lynchings are pretty rare - atleast I
never hear about them, though I do live in cali - but remember that black
guy from texas who was dragged by a car until he died, leaving chunks of his
body along the way!!!)
Kevin Talbot
newsgroup, or did it get cross posted into here? anyways, I challenge
"gothicbrad666" to name a goth band (other than the cure), because I am
utterly fuckign sick of "goths." This is not my opinion of Gothic music or
styles. There is nothing wrong with that. But by some weird fluke of logic
the gothic subculture was distorted and repackaged fro commercial
cunsumption a la mtv who fucking take Marilyn Manson and NIN and make them
"spooky" instead of thoughtful. FUCK!!! I hate you Mr. GothicBrad666...
plus, Cuplan got you on pretty much *every* point you failedly attempted to
form in your l;ittle, stupid, fucking mind..
Cuplan
<digidis...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>actually, drugs are thought to take the life of many men in their usage,
>while murder is thought to take one life. Therefore drugs are punished much
>more strongly than murder. It's interesting, then, that by limiting drugs it
>limits murder. Not saying we should do it, but just an odd observation.
The War on Drugs has not limited murder. On the contrary, it causes
more killing. Why? Because drugs are illegal, and thus organized
crime has stepped in to provide a good where legitimate business
cannot. Thus guns are held wildly among people dealing in drugs, and
these guns are far more likely to be used than, say, Joe Smith's
personal nine-millimeter concealed weapon. Joe Smith had to take a
class to carry his gun in public, and he knows how easily he can go to
jail for so much as pulling it out at the wrong time.
By comparison, if a coke deal goes bad, bullets just fly. And then
there's turf wars, where innocent people invariably get hurt.
Cuplan
<digidis...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I feel I have a right to hate this person... was that post in this
>newsgroup, or did it get cross posted into here? anyways, I challenge
>"gothicbrad666" to name a goth band (other than the cure), because I am
>utterly fuckign sick of "goths." This is not my opinion of Gothic music or
>styles. There is nothing wrong with that. But by some weird fluke of logic
>the gothic subculture was distorted and repackaged fro commercial
>cunsumption a la mtv who fucking take Marilyn Manson and NIN and make them
>"spooky" instead of thoughtful. FUCK!!! I hate you Mr. GothicBrad666...
The Cure never identified as being a goth band, actually, and don't
care much for that label. If you're going to try and name a common
goth band, you should at least name a goth band.
>Cuplan got you on pretty much *every* point you failedly attempted to
>form in your l;ittle, stupid, fucking mind..
Well, what can I say to that except "I'm rubber and you're glue?" I
mean, really. There is no content to that statement at all. Even
more amusing, I can't seem to find the word "failedly" in any
dictionary. If you'd like to call me stupid, perhaps you should
explain where I'm being stupid and also use the right forms of words.
Cuplan
<digidis...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>can't say I have
Could you please do us the distinct favor of quoting posts to which
you reply? It's impossible for us to figure out to whom you are
responding.
Cuplan
<digidis...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>how an any way shape or form did I say you were a redneck bastard. I don't
>even fucking know you. Why would I go and be so stupid as to judge someone
>who I don't know?
You stated that gun education would make more people "redneck
bastards." The implication is that being gun educated causes people
to become "redneck bastards," and since I am gun educated, I must be
one.
Cuplan
<digidis...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>What does the violence have do with race problems? "
>you are a fuckign dumbshit... ever heard of the kkk!? lynchings!? on a small
>scale that shit is still going on (lynchings are pretty rare - atleast I
>never hear about them, though I do live in cali - but remember that black
>guy from texas who was dragged by a car until he died, leaving chunks of his
>body along the way!!!)
And of course, a lot of black Americans do the same thing to whites.
Cuplan
<digidis...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I effectively earlier statement about gun education... However, I still
>think the average man is too thoughtless to recieve any messages presented
>to them about guns.
I dunno. Eddy Eagle gets through to kids pretty well. I think the
average man can get the point.
>Basically, anyone who would have killed someone while
>there wasn't gun control would kill a man when there is. It would howvwer
>make the thinking class better protected from both accidents and attacks.
I disagree, and I'm going to have to ask you to prove your statement.
Giggles
>
> you're an anti-trendist. I hate people whose concept of good and bad is
> directly related to popular and unpopular. I will say that Fred Durst is
> annoying, and that you have the right to an opinion on the band. I just get
> that vibe off you that you watch TRL everyday just so you can say MTV sucks
> and you hate the Backstreet Boys.
>
manufactured "bands" that sound like crap anyway.
--
Ashley
Daniel Fawcett
<3b5e554b.967851882@news-server>...
[snip]
>
> It's actually more expensive to execute a man than to send him to
> prison for life. That divergence in costs can be further reduced if
> hard labor became a staple in prison. The death penalty is nothing
> but a legally sanctioned form of murder, and I consider it a violation
> of a man's rights (which I consider to be of divine origin)
Personally, I don't see why someone who has killed someone
*deserves* any rights. Murderers are scum.
--
~~nothing turns out like you want it to~~
- Manic Street Preachers, "Yes"
Daniel Fawcett
<BOv77.6169$ar1....@www.newsranger.com>...
[snip]
> I do agree that we all have the right to defend our property and that
criminals
> should be made to pay for their crimes.
Yes. THIS is the big problem in Britain. If someone illegally enters
your property, you basically have to sit there and let them get on
with it. This is SO wrong. I don't agree with people being allowed
to shoot people, as I'm totally anti-gun possession, but, yeah, if
I wanna knock the fucker out with a cricket bat, I should be able
to without facing ABH charges.
> In the US all states do not have a death
> penalty. There are 12 US states that do not have the death penalty.
I thought it was more than that?? I remember seeing a map, with each
state marked on, and how you could be executed there. Some of them
were kinda.... antiquated. Like Utah, where apparently you can still
be executed by firing squad O_O
> Does the UK
> have a death penalty system?
Sorta. IIRC there's still the provision for execution (via hanging, the
only one still permitted), but the Government recently signed an EU
treaty-thingy waiving that provision away. So, erm, like most areas
of British law, its muddled :)
Cuplan
<digital...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>Personally, I don't see why someone who has killed someone
>*deserves* any rights. Murderers are scum.
You're right. They deserve no rights, and that's why they should be
sent to a forced labor camp for life.
However, think about what murder is for a moment. Murder is the
willful killing of another by a person of sound mind. In deciding to
kill another person, you're premeditating murder. You're choosing to
kill, and that means you're choosing to murder. I don't care if it's
a state-sanctioned murder (war, execution, etc) or not. To me, you're
a murderer. You chose to kill another. As a result, it's my opinion
that execution of murder as a punishment for a crime makes s/he who
decided that punishment as well as those who implement that punishment
to be active parties in the murder of another. I feel that murder
cannot be wisely answered with murder, and thus feel a more
appropriate punishment would be a lifetime of forced labor.
Cuplan
<digital...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>I thought it was more than that?? I remember seeing a map, with each
>state marked on, and how you could be executed there. Some of them
>were kinda.... antiquated. Like Utah, where apparently you can still
>be executed by firing squad O_O
Only if you ask to be executed that way, though. Most of the
condemned pick lethal injection. A few years ago, we did have a
condemned man choose firing squad, and thousands of letters poured in
from across the nation with pleas to be on the firing squad.
I live in a country of sickos.
MW
shooting eachother over some stupid dispute. Assholes. No way you will here
about such things in Holland. NOt that I give a FUCK but it's true. Jesus
man, the best way is to just let all the weaponholders there shoot
eachother. And after that; no gunshops.
I would like to put it this way;
"You know what, Fuck you
I'm fed up with you
I'm not as good as you
Fuck no, I'm better than you"
- Korn -
Oh yeh, you know the words but can you FEEL THEM. I fed up with the stupid
assholes shooting eachother. FUCK YOU. Damnit man. Don't post this things. I
intend to get agreeover them. FUCKERS. Tomorrow on the new; "Yesterday a 12
year old boy shot a girl by the age of 11. They were having a fight at the
tenniscourt. Then the boy went home to pick up his father's gun and shot the
girl. The girl is now lying on the intensive care. The doctor's don't give
her much chance."
I'm really pissed. It's for the fact that you ASSHOLES live an oceaan away
but otherwise I would like to FUCKING DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS SHIT.
MW
ps. Sorry, I intend not to use capital letters but I'm so FUCKING PISSED.
Nomen Nescio <nob...@dizum.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
Jean Ra
>I'm fed up with you
>I'm not as good as you
>Fuck no, I'm better than you"
>
>- Korn -
Thank you for quoting Korn, the renaissance band of both might and
intellect. I'm sure that, now, this trivial dispute is over. Leave it
to yet another band that reverses a letter in their name to save the day
once again!
"Thanks, Jonathan Davis, for saving our small village!"
quoth09
wrote:
>In alt.music.nin Brad McBad <midnig...@softhome.net> wrote:
>
>: Guns can be bought as easily as a computer, a cd player, or any other medium
>: sized household purchase, And I hate to point it out, but there is a flaw in
>: this.
>
> Um. Guns can't be `bought as easily as a computer, a cd player, or
>any other medium-sized household purchase', here in the US. Many guns can't
>be bought at all! And... I could just go downtown with some money and come
>home with a cd player. I can't just go downtown with some money and come
>home with a gun.
>
> Patrick Alexander
>
> `God is a conjecture; but I desire that your conjectures be
>limited by what is thinkable.'
>
> --Friedrich Nietzsche
um, i can.
Smirky
"MW" <marcus....@hccnet.nl> wrote in message
news:9jnc61$buk$1...@news.hccnet.nl...
quoth09
<midnig...@softhome.net> wrote:
>I hate to be a little English spoilsport, but if there was tighter gun
>control and a greater sense of responsibility infused into americans with
>regard to firearms, then children would not be given weapons, designed
>primarily to kill human beings.
>
>Guns can be bought as easily as a computer, a cd player, or any other medium
>sized household purchase, And I hate to point it out, but there is a flaw in
>this. If people had to go to a gun runner, someone whom most conservative
>Americans a la Charlton Heston would consider to be a lowlife, or white
>trash scum, then there would be a massive drop in
>
>1. Accidents involving weapons kept loaded.
>2. Unbalanced individuals being able to purchase weapons
>3. Second hand weapons falling through the thin mesh of firearm registration
>and into the hands of real criminals
>
>After the columbine shooting it was the alternative subcultures who got the
>railing. As a trenchcoat wearing, dyed black haired gothic male I had to
>deal with backlash from peers, my parents and concerned geriatrics . I broke
>the noses of three drunked teenagers who attacked me with glass bottles and
>bricks. I did not take out a personal vendetta against them and "cap" them.
>
>If attitudes to firearms were tighter then perhaps it would be the NRA who
>would be called into question, not marilyn manson, not rammstein.
>
>I know I'm whining, but nobody listens to anyone.
>
>If you have any wish to speak to me, I'm on alt.music.nin, my msn username
>is midnig...@softhome.net and my Aol username is currently gothicbrad666.
>
>Thanx
>
>"Nomen Nescio" <nob...@dizum.com> wrote in message
>news:a53d3acdac5bb129...@dizum.com...
>> Why do judges identify with thugs who are members of a football team? The
>> answer is that these are the people who are seen as future leaders and
>> managers in America when they become adults. It will be their task to
>> engineer plans and issue orders to those such as they now bully, brutalize
>> and rape, a practice they will continue in a different guise later.
>>
>> The answer is to pick up a gun and use it. That is the only way you will
>> get justice.
>>
>> July 14, 2001 Talk about it E-mail story Print
>>
>>
>> IN BRIEF / SAN BERNARDINO
>> Case Dismissed in Alleged Hazing Incident
>>
>>
>>
>> From Times Staff and Wire Reports
>> A judge dismissed the case against a former Yucca Valley High School
>> football player who allegedly was involved in the sexual battery of a
>> teammate.
>>
>> San Bernardino Superior Court Judge John Wade said Thursday that after two
>> weeks of testimony, prosecutors had failed to prove the charges against
>the
>> youth, now 18.
>>
>> The former student, whose identity wasn't released because he was tried as
>> a minor, was among a group of football players accused of sexually abusing
>> a teammate during an alleged hazing incident at the high school last fall.
>> Five other juveniles charged in the case entered plea bargains.
>>
>>
>>
>
wow, you're kinda kinky...nice subject header.
what am i wearing, oh, well,
green panties and a topless dress, oh and this fabulous gold chain...
oh and what would i do with the chain while you are eating me out?
SMACK YOU IN THE HEAD...YEAH YEAH.
get a fucking clue.
NJSaRcHaSm
>Suicidal people should have ready access to instantaneous death, if
>you ask me. They're just deadweight.
I thought you wanted to help people. This doesn't seem to be very kind.
naylor
NJSaRcHaSm
>less death in england. less life... in my opinion england seems like a stale
>place to live. they are much less tolerant to stuff than america is.
What about in Holland? They seem pretty modern. Do they have less violence
while maintaining liberal attitudes?
naylor
NJSaRcHaSm
>You stupid fucking Americans. You are just one pile of stupid assholes. Just
>shooting eachother over some stupid dispute. Assholes. No way you will here
>about such things in Holland. NOt that I give a FUCK but it's true.
I just sent you an email so if you would choose to reply to that instead that
is fine. How does Holland treat guns and/or violence? I can only imagine that
the Dutch system is more effective.
naylor
Kevin Talbot
Kevin Talbot
Kevin Talbot
interpretted it. I simply meant there'd be more people who know how to fire
guns. Morals are already so skewed in our society that I think that there'd
just be more Dylan Klepold's in thew world if more people knew how to use
guns.
Kevin Talbot
a greater knowledge of the current situation surrounding guns, their
control, and education abotu them, but I feel telling people how to operate
a potential-life-taker would do no good in our often lacking-in-moral
society. I respect your opinions, though, and see no way to really argue my
own. Mine are just basic observations, I guess you could call them. The
extent of my firearm experience was target practice in cub scouts 8 years
ago, so weapons are by no means my expertise.
Kevin Talbot
you reply? It's impossible for us to figure out to whom you are
responding.
Cuplan
Cuplan
<digidis...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I didn't intend it to sound that way, and apologize if that is how you
>interpretted it.
Listen, you ignorant fuck- QUOTE AND ATTRIBUTE IN YOUR GODDAMNED
RESPONSES!
>I simply meant there'd be more people who know how to fire
>guns.
That's not what gun safety education generally focuses on. Besides
that, nearly everyone knows how to fire a loaded weapon- point and
shoot. Moreover, nearly everyone in America knows how to operate a
shotgun, revolver, and semi-automatic pistol simply from watching
movies.
>Morals are already so skewed in our society that I think that there'd
>just be more Dylan Klepold's in thew world if more people knew how to use
>guns.
I disagree. The limiting factor in youth violence today is definitely
not the knowledge of how to operate a firearm.
His name was Klebolds, BTW.
Oh, and one more thing- QUOTE in your responses.
Cuplan
<digidis...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I can't really prove my point 'cause it is a hypotheses.
More like speculation and supposition. Oh, and did I forget to
mention that you ought to quote those you're responding to?
>You obviously have
>a greater knowledge of the current situation surrounding guns, their
>control, and education abotu them, but I feel telling people how to operate
>a potential-life-taker would do no good in our often lacking-in-moral
>society.
Again, gun education does not often involve learning to operate a
weapon, but instead involves teaching young people to keep the hell
away from them. It's effective. There's also some evidence to show
that children trained in the proper safe use of a firearm do not grow
up to use firearms irresponsibly, and that's far more important.
>I respect your opinions, though, and see no way to really argue my
>own. Mine are just basic observations, I guess you could call them. The
>extent of my firearm experience was target practice in cub scouts 8 years
>ago, so weapons are by no means my expertise.
I've been using guns for hunting and target shooting for the last 14
years or so. I also feel that it's my civic duty as an intelligent,
stable, and responsible member of society to earn my concealed weapons
permit and to own a firearm for the defense of both myself and any
innocent parties I may be associated with.
It's interesting to note that those with firearms training are
comfortable with weapons and are quite unlikely to accidentally harm
someone. Those with little to no firearms experience (which is,
sadly, most people) believe firearms to be the killing machines they
see in the movies and swear that being within 20 feet of one signs
your death warrant. It's this fear of firearms (fuelled by a lack of
education) that really powers the gun control movement.
Cuplan
<digidis...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>Could you please do us the distinct favor of quoting posts to which
>you reply? It's impossible for us to figure out to whom you are
>responding.
>yes...
Actually, you need to attribute them, too, so that all observing the
discussion know to whom you are responding. It's common courtesy that
seems lost on you.
Cuplan
If you want to die, then I'm not going to get in the way of your
desires. I love to help people, but I do have a rule of thumb that I
only help those with a will to help themselves, too. That's why the
bulk of my community service work has focused on giving hard-working
people a help up in life. When I gather enough wealth to start a
philanthropic trust, that principle is going to continue.
The truth of the matter is that, if you want to die, you've given up,
and that also means you've given up on trying to make your life
better.
NJSaRcHaSm
>His name was Klebolds, BTW.
Since you told me to go to Canada, (nah that's not y hehe), it is actually
Klebold. No s.
naylor
Flip
abbit fan of them. i am used to them. mind you i
wouldn't take them over metallica or Sabbath or anyother
band more to my liking... they are one of the few bands
that broke outta the manufactured band syndrom(being
once they are made to think for them selfs they start to suck)
i'm not anti-trendist... i am jsut sick of the trendies
telling me i'm not a real fan because i don't like
CSFATHDFW all that much...and if you have actually took
the time to found out how i am you wouldn't have said i
was a anti-trendist.. almost all the bands i like are
unknown and unpopular with the exception of Metallica,
Sabbath, limp, Korn, and papa roach... i bet that almost
everyone here hasn't herd of these bands.. BLS,
Meshuggah, sepultura, The salads, dream theater, Pride
and glory, Zakk wylde, pink mist, and quiet roit...
Caxo
in general. Criminals for the most part can't get them because guns
are much more restricted there. Hence, there just aren't the guns to
shoot people with!
This is why gun control is good. If you take them away, you take away
one of the easiest ways to murder. When you take away guns, you limit
people to close range weapons, which makes murder harder to accomplish
and harder to hide.
Sure, education is good, but in the US you generally can be educated
well, but only if you want to. It's people that don't want to that
don't get educated, and you can't make them.
However, you should look at Japanese EDUCATION system. It's very much
more restricted than yours. Their society is very different.
Employment is high, immigration is virtually nil, the family is
generally very stable. It's not just education, it's their whole
system.
Where they aren't restricted is entertainment. Television and books
with massive amount of violence are available everywhere. The reason
is that they understand that what you see does not make you do. If you
know the difference between television and reality it does not have
appreciable influence on you.
>We *shouldn't* need tighter gun control. Hell, we shouldn't need gun control
>period!!! That's the whole point! Our society has a major flaw in that we
>feel restrictions are the answer. Restricting the actions of the dumb only
>goes so far. Education is the answer (I don't mean to sound like a public
>service announcement, but...). It is through education that one's mind
>developes to a point of understanding that is currently thought of as smart.
>How many "smart" people do you hear of killing each other? The answer is
>very few. Look at East Asians, who are stereotyped as being super
>intelligent. In Japan they have an average of *6* shootings a year. In
>America we have sooooooooooo many more than that that it is sickening. The
>thing is, what is currently referred to as "smart" direly needs to become
>average. If the human race as a whole maintains this level of ignorance and
>stupidity, I venture to say we are doomed.
<< Caxo >>
Caxo
>while murder is thought to take one life. Therefore drugs are punished much
>more strongly than murder. It's interesting, then, that by limiting drugs it
>limits murder. Not saying we should do it, but just an odd observation.
Umm, actually, if you'd take a look at holland, for instance, drugs
are much more legal, and as a result people aren't killed for them.
When you can buy something at the store, you won't kill some to get
it. It's very simple.
I'm not saying that I want to see people doing drugs here. Far from
it... the major problem I'd have with legal drugs is driving drugged.
We'd need to have a good test for each legal drug, and we'd need much
tougher laws on driving impaired. (ie. get caught driving impaired you
lose your licence permanently and go to jail for maybe a month.
period. No three strikes. No "I have the right to drive an
automobile!" crap. Just take the licence away. If you're irresponsible
enough to do it once, you're irresponsible enough to do it again.)
<< Caxo >>
Caxo
>manner towards it's intended target. Nothing more, nothing less. Are
>knives designed to cut human flesh? Are baseball bats designed to crush
>human skulls?
Certain knives are designed to cut human flesh, yes. But, most knives
are intended just to cut flesh in general.
Baseball bats, no, certainly not. Baseball bats are made for sport.
Guns were DEFINITELY made to kill animals... and most of those guns
are designed to kill humans. I don't recall anyone sending soldiers
out to war with guns designed to straighten their ties...
Handguns are designed to kill only humans. They are not designed for
hunting animals for sport, or shooting skeet, or any of that because
they are not very acurate at a distance.
There are two reasons to own a hangun instead of a rifle, and that is
first because it takes up less space, and second because it is easy to
conceal.
I think rifles are just fine. You can't put one in your pocket, and
they're just as effective for your own home protection.
People shouldn't need to carry guns around with them at all times for
protection. If noone on the street has a gun, there is no need. Carry
a knife instead.
>> After the columbine shooting it was the alternative subcultures who got the
>> railing. As a trenchcoat wearing, dyed black haired gothic male I had to
>> deal with backlash from peers, my parents and concerned geriatrics . I broke
>> the noses of three drunked teenagers who attacked me with glass bottles and
>> bricks. I did not take out a personal vendetta against them and "cap" them.
>
>There is certainly no actual excusing what has happened in ANY of the
>tragic school shooting that have occurred. However, I don't think that
>taking guns out of the equation would necessarily have changed the
>outcome, only the means. Bombs are easy, Bats are easy, knives are
>easy. Two teenagers in New Hampshire killed (alledgedly still I think)
>two Dartmouth College professors with a "hunting knife". Has there
>been an nationwide call to ban knife ownership? I don't remember the
>particulars, but a few months ago there was a case of a college student
>deliberately driving through a crowd and killing and injuring people.
>Has there been a nationwide call to ban cars? Misuse either deliberate,
>accidental or with murderous intent or diminished sobriety of
>automobiles kills far more people worldwide than do firearms in the
>hands of private citizens. Where are the crowds of angry people to ban
>them?
Okay, don't be silly here. Many more people are killed -intentionally-
by guns than knives, bats, bombs, or cars. (Remember, I said
-intentionally-). Most people killed by cars are killed by impaired
drivers, which I am fully against. (I think anyone caught driving
drunk or drugged should have their license permanently revoked and
spend a month in prison.)
This goes back to the original argument. Guns ARE designed to kill
people. Cars aren't. However, you can run away from a baseball bat or
a knife. You can even run away from some bombs. You can't outrun a
bullet.
<< Caxo >>
Cuplan
>When you can buy something at the store, you won't kill some to get
>it. It's very simple.
Well, people do kill for booze money. The real benefit of a legalized
drug trade is that there aren't going to be gang turf wars or deals
going bad.
>I'm not saying that I want to see people doing drugs here. Far from
>it... the major problem I'd have with legal drugs is driving drugged.
People do it already. It's called driving drunk. I think that, if we
took all the peaceful drug offenders out of prison, we'd have a lot
more room to keep those who have threatened the lives of others while
high in prison for a lot longer.
>We'd need to have a good test for each legal drug, and we'd need much
>tougher laws on driving impaired. (ie. get caught driving impaired you
>lose your licence permanently and go to jail for maybe a month.
>period. No three strikes. No "I have the right to drive an
>automobile!" crap. Just take the licence away. If you're irresponsible
>enough to do it once, you're irresponsible enough to do it again.)
Well, technically, the ownership and use of a vehicle is, to a certain
point, part of the right to own property. In the US, you can own and
drive a car all you want without a license. You just can't do it on
public roads. :)
--
Cuplan.
"And I'm Standing In A Ring Of Fire
And My Heart Is Made Of Light"
-Swans, "Identity"
Caxo
>to ban tv
>
>actually a better way would be to identify the psychos that are gonna kill
>people and get them the help they need
That's right. TV makes me want to kill people. That's exactly why I
watch it. I saw some guy get shot on television... that was so cool
I'm going to buy a gun and shoot someone... or maybe I'll get someone
to shoot me! I don't know the difference between television and
reality. I'm a moron.
Oh yeah, we must also remember psychotic people are the only people
who kill.
<< Caxo >>
Cuplan
>Okay, you have obviously NOT noticed that you can't find guns in Japan
>in general. Criminals for the most part can't get them because guns
>are much more restricted there. Hence, there just aren't the guns to
>shoot people with!
True, but there are stabbings. There was a school stabbing in Japan
not long ago.
>This is why gun control is good. If you take them away, you take away
>one of the easiest ways to murder. When you take away guns, you limit
>people to close range weapons, which makes murder harder to accomplish
>and harder to hide.
Actually, it's a lot easier to hide a knife than it is to hide a gun.
Hell...I've even heard of knives that can go through metal detectors.
You can't do that with a gun. Besides that, gun control only keeps a
crackdown on the legal purchase, and does damned little to control the
illegal purchase of weapons.
And gun control isn't necessarily the only answer. Until very
recently, Switzerland was very permissive on gun ownership, and they
had very low gun crime.
>Sure, education is good, but in the US you generally can be educated
>well, but only if you want to. It's people that don't want to that
>don't get educated, and you can't make them.
That's a worldwide problem. That's a human problem. That's not a
problem just for the US.
>However, you should look at Japanese EDUCATION system. It's very much
>more restricted than yours. Their society is very different.
Yes, they're collectivist, and we're individualist.
>Employment is high, immigration is virtually nil, the family is
>generally very stable. It's not just education, it's their whole
>system.
Actually, Japanese unemployment is starting to skyrocket, IIRC. Not
but last April, Japan was having to look at the intentional inflation
of the Yen to bail their failing economy out of the gutter. Why?
Because they did some very Japanese things that hurt them badly. The
Japanese government started giving corporate welfare to companies
based on cultural seniority rather than on their hopes for being
bailed out.
Also, having a low level of immigration is a sign of two things-
nobody thinks there are new opportunities there and the country is
reaching carrying capacity. I think you meant to say that emigraion
in Japan is nil, and that's not necessarily true because young
Japanese adults are coming over here for university educations and
then stay when they get software jobs.
>Where they aren't restricted is entertainment. Television and books
>with massive amount of violence are available everywhere. The reason
>is that they understand that what you see does not make you do. If you
>know the difference between television and reality it does not have
>appreciable influence on you.
Well, I maintain that the primary problem with the American mentality
is that we have a violence-oriented culture. I can go to the movies
and see hundreds of violent and felonious acts committed by a "hero."
Issues of fantasy-versus-reality aside, if you repeatedly see your
heroes being celebrated for irresponsible and violent acts, you're
going to get it in your head that that's how you behave. Movies are
an extension of storytelling, and as such are a primary way of
educating young minds in the proper way to behave in certain
situations.
And Japan has some crazy entertainment restrictions. One that I
always found odd- you can show sex acts in rather explicit ways, but
you can't show pubic hair and you're not supposed to directly show a
penis.