i'll admit it....
Dish1991
luke's doing squat. scotty, jax and ned are dicks. alexis and liz need a man
soooo bad it isn't funny. scummy is the centerpiece and i'm soooo bored with
that. i don't care who killed alcazar...it's old and worn. ...and new gia...cut
me a freakin break!
i'm bored..watch out!
;)
Lori
Lori ;)
"Dish1991" <dish...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20030114092520...@mb-mw.aol.com...
Dish1991
>Thanks for the warning! I am bored too.
>
>Lori ;)
well, i have this theory, the more boring gh is, the more likely the ot threads
will be looooong!
hehe~
anyway, speaking of dentists......
did any of you guys get these 'sealants' put on your kids' teeth??
Lori
teeth that she needs to keep as long as possible. No bigguns under them. A
genetic defect she got from mom. I highly recommend them. Of course that
could be because I am now dealing with the effects of many fillings from
when I was young.
Lori
"Dish1991" <dish...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20030114121434...@mb-co.aol.com...
Katiesidea700
Felicia had a storyline and I was taping GH again. She has always been my
favorite and I thought the writers were finally going to get things back on
track for her. Now she is gone *again and I want to kick myself for wasting my
time. A GH built around Sonny, Carly and Jax is not a soap I care to watch.
Jo Ann
news:3e244e05$1...@corp-news.newsgroups.com...
> > anyway, speaking of dentists......
> >
> > did any of you guys get these 'sealants' put on your kids' teeth??
You bet! My stepdaughter (age 25) has them and has had only 1 tiny cavity
(filled with the white stuff) due to braces she wore as a teen.
My son (age 14) has had sealants put on his permanent molars as they
erupted, and re-applied when they wear off (our dentist guarentees them for
1 year). So far, his teeth are cavity free, yet his baby teeth were a
little weak in the enamel....If I had his infant/toddler years to do over, I
would have found some way to get sealants on his baby teeth.
I think sealants are a responsible thing parents can do for their children -
and sometimes dental insurace covers it (ours didn't BTW).
I've had no new cavities my adult life, but I've sure had to replace
fillings as they gradually break down, which means more original tooth loss,
which means eventual crowns, etc. I'm gradually replacing my fillings with
the white stuff, but fortunately its a slow process.
Jo Ann - not in the dental field!
>
Dish1991
>You bet! My stepdaughter (age 25) has them and has had only 1 tiny cavity
>(filled with the white stuff) due to braces she wore as a teen.
>
>My son (age 14) has had sealants put on his permanent molars as they
>erupted, and re-applied when they wear off (our dentist guarentees them for
>1 year). So far, his teeth are cavity free, yet his baby teeth were a
>little weak in the enamel....If I had his infant/toddler years to do over, I
>would have found some way to get sealants on his baby teeth.
>
>I think sealants are a responsible thing parents can do for their children -
>and sometimes dental insurace covers it (ours didn't BTW).
>
>I've had no new cavities my adult life, but I've sure had to replace
>fillings as they gradually break down, which means more original tooth loss,
>which means eventual crowns, etc. I'm gradually replacing my fillings with
>the white stuff, but fortunately its a slow process.
>
thanks lori & joann!
these sealants are new to me. my insurance won't cover them either. they are
$31 each, which isn't bad, but my daughter hasn't had any cavities yet and i
was wondering if she *really* needed these things. her other dentist said she
doesn't have a lot of grooves on her surface. a good thing, plus she isn't a
big candy eater.
then i did a little research and found that the liqued they use to make them is
toxic and a known carcinogen in its liqued form, so special care has to be made
not to have any swallowed etc. i also read that they have to 'roughen' the
surface to apply it and i wondered if that was really a good thing to be doing.
i am still undecided so i'd love to hear more success stories if anyone has
any!
soprano
> $31 each, which isn't bad, but my daughter hasn't had any cavities yet and i
> was wondering if she *really* needed these things. her other dentist said she
> doesn't have a lot of grooves on her surface. a good thing, plus she isn't a
> big candy eater.
I never got any sealants on my teeth and have only two tiny cavities,
gotten when I was a teenager after not seeing a dentist for 4 years.
Children these days, with floride in the water and frequent dental
cleanings (and hopefully proper oral hygiene) don't have as many
problems with cavities as people used to. I'm not a dentist and can't
say for certain whether sealants are necessary, but you might want to
ask your dentist what he/she thinks the odds are of her getting
cavities. It might depend on genetics too, although both my parents had
horrible teeth (which could have been from getting proper dental care
while growing up).
soprano
soprano
> horrible teeth (which could have been from getting proper dental care
> while growing up).
>
> soprano
Oops, I meant from NOT getting proper dental care.
soprano, in need of sleep
Teapot Mom
"Dish1991" wrote:
> anyway, speaking of dentists......
>
> did any of you guys get these 'sealants' put on your kids' teeth??
Absolutley!!! They are great. My college girl has never had a filling! In
fact, now that I think of it, only my oldest has a filling...one, if any.
Our school offers them for free. Some local dentists and the state set up a
program here. Get them!!!
Teapot
Teapot Mom
"Dish1991" wrote:
> thanks lori & joann!
> my insurance won't cover them either.
Our insurance does cover them bc in the long run, it is cheaper than getting
fillings later on.
> so special care has to be made not to have any swallowed etc. i also read
that they >have to 'roughen' the surface to apply it and i wondered if that
was really a good thing >to be doing.
Keep in mind that it can't be too difficult to do if our schools do them IN
school! We have some dental techs come in at the beginning of the school
year. It's really a painless process.
> i am still undecided so i'd love to hear more success stories if anyone
has
> any!
After having five kids with them and seeing the great results, I would say
definitely get them. It's worth it.
Teapot
Dish1991
>Our school offers them for free.
what the??!
free??!!
in jersey, there's 6% tax on free!
Linn
From: dish...@aol.comNOSPAM >>
<< >From: "Teapot Mom"
what the??!
free??!!
My kids had sealants and they both have beautiful teeth! It was covered by
their dental insurance.
Linn
REMstar11
>their dental insurance.
>
i had that seal put on my teeth and still have never had a cavity!!!
jen!
0 cavities in 21 years!
Zookpr2many
Becky
"Dish1991" <dish...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20030114162735...@mb-fn.aol.com...
Dish1991
>My kids had sealants and they both have beautiful teeth! It was covered by
>their dental insurance.
thanks for the input!
Dish1991
>i had that seal put on my teeth and still have never had a cavity!!!
>
>jen!
>0 cavities in 21 years!
>
wow jen! if these things are so great, how are dentists staying in buisness???
Lori
afford cosmetic surgery.
Lori
"Dish1991" <dish...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20030114221418...@mb-fs.aol.com...
Teapot Mom
"Dish1991" wrote:
> >Our school offers them for free.
>
> what the??!
>
> free??!!
>
> in jersey, there's 6% tax on free!
You have to understand this area. We are in the northern most part of
Appalachia, which is considered a poverty area. So the state has developed
some programs here to help with health care. We used to have fluoride
treatments given at school every Monday morning...all free. Some of these
children will never see a dentist. Having wonderful insurance as we do, is a
luxury most people in the area will never have. And one wonderful part of
living here is that we are considered a minority and qualify for special aid
and scholarships in college. My kids each got $3000 per year, for four years
for being a minority! Although there are plenty of disadvantages, there are
some great benefits, too.
Teapot
Dish1991
>And one wonderful part of
>living here is that we are considered a minority and qualify for special aid
>and scholarships in college. My kids each got $3000 per year, for four years
>for being a minority! Although there are plenty of disadvantages, there are
>some great benefits, too.
what makes you a minority?
VoxofaFox
WHAT?!?!?!?!?!
Teapot Mom
"Dish1991" wrote:
> what makes you a minority?
We are Appalachian! It is a part of the (mountainous) country running mostly
thru West Virginia, where poverty is at the very lowest. We are in the most
northern part of this region. We are a part of the West Virginia PanHandle.
Our entire county is below the national poverty level...something to be
proud of, don't you think?!! kidding here, you know.
Because the poverty is so bad, very low employment rates and more, the state
makes some consessions for it. Like I said before, there are children who
have never seen a dentist and have no regular visits with drs.
Teapot
Lori
"Teapot Mom" <este...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:bjnV9.2426$1q3.949@sccrnsc01...
So just because of where you live you get a "scholarship" of sorts. It
doesn't matter how much you make?
Lori
Laura M. Young
> I never got any sealants on my teeth and have only two tiny cavities,
> gotten when I was a teenager after not seeing a dentist for 4 years.
> Children these days, with floride in the water and frequent dental
> cleanings (and hopefully proper oral hygiene) don't have as many
> problems with cavities as people used to. I'm not a dentist and can't
> say for certain whether sealants are necessary, but you might want to
> ask your dentist what he/she thinks the odds are of her getting
> cavities. It might depend on genetics too, although both my parents had
> horrible teeth (which could have been from getting proper dental care
> while growing up).
A LOT of it is genetics although with fluoridated water in most places that has
made a positive difference too. I have only two cavities in my mouth, both which
I got when I was about 35 between upper back molars that are virtually impossible
to clean between. My kids (22 and 24) don't have any cavities, nor does my sister
who is in her mid-40s. None of us were any more conscientious about brushing or
dental care than any other kids growing up nor were sweets banned from our homes.
On the other hand, my godmother had her kids brushing their teeth faithfully
several times a day, and she hardly let them have sweets at all, yet all of them
have a mouth full of fillings.
--
Please remove NOSPAM from my address to send email.
Laura M. Young
> And one wonderful part of
> living here is that we are considered a minority and qualify for special aid
> and scholarships in college. My kids each got $3000 per year, for four years
> for being a minority! Although there are plenty of disadvantages, there are
> some great benefits, too.
I hope this isn't too personal a question, but what "minority" are your kids?
Dish1991
i think it's a great thing that you have going there. i'm sure some kids have
some pretty rough circumstances. however, i wonder why you chose to live there?
i mean this with **all** due respect, you don't sound "poor."
Dish1991
>On the other hand, my godmother had her kids brushing their teeth faithfully
>several times a day, and she hardly let them have sweets at all, yet all of
>them
>have a mouth full of fillings.
>
laura...were these kids sick a lot as toddlers and young children? were they on
antibiodics once a winter or so?
they now say that cavities are from bacteria and i'm wondering if there's a
correlation between antibiodic use and dental health.
Teapot Mom
"Lori" wrote:
> So just because of where you live you get a "scholarship" of sorts. It
> doesn't matter how much you make?
No, you still have to qualify thru grades and act scores. Fortunately, my
kids have all scored exceptionally high. OSU has a minority affairs dept.
which offers the scholarships to minority students WHO QUALIFY
ACCEDEMICALLY.
We still have to submit a FAFSA the same as everyone else, but the two
biggest qualifiers are gpa/act scores and minority.
Teapot
Lori
high scores? My daughter had high ACT's also and that is where her
scholarship money came in.
Lori
"Teapot Mom" <este...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:ThqV9.695417$WL3.724687@rwcrnsc54...
>
> "Lori" w's alrote:
Teapot Mom
"Dish1991" wrote:
> i think it's a great thing that you have going there. i'm sure some kids
have
> some pretty rough circumstances. however, i wonder why you chose to live
>there? i mean this with **all** due respect, you don't sound "poor."
LOL, no disrespect taken. We are not poor...the area is. We have a high
unemployment rate but it is still a great place to live. We don't all fit
into that poor category. There is a wide variety of jobs here, mostly labor.
We have steel mills, potteries, a large hospital, a nuclear power plant and
several coal burning power plants, and let's not forget the world's largest
hazardous toxic waste incinerator! My husband and son work in the steel
mill, which is probably the highest paying of the manufacturing plants
around.
I guess I didn't make this clear enough or not at all. You don't just get a
scholarship for living here. You have to EARN it, but it is money set aside
for minorities. You must have the grades. I believe you have to have at
least a 27 on your ACT. Fortunately, my kids had that and then some, so they
qualified. This isn't something that is well known, though. We stumbled into
it and not every college offers it. But OSU has a minority dept. and makes
this money available to deserving students. Simply by my carefully reading
the entrance applications, I noticed something about Appalachia and checked
it off. Come time for oriantation, we discovered the value of checking off
that little box! Since we've made this discovery, we have tried to pass the
info on to other parents, hoping their kids can take advantage of a
wonderful opportunity.
Teapot, hoping this clears things up a bit
Teapot Mom
"Laura M. Young" wrote:
> I hope this isn't too personal a question, but what "minority" are your
kids?
Appalachian! I know you are surprised...I was, too. We got a letter asking
us to attend the minority orientation and my first thought was, "oh, oh,
they made a BIG mistake! We're not black, Indian, Latin, or anything else.
What did we do wrong to get this letter?" We went to the meeting, only to
find other people just as surprised as we were. In fact, the dean laughed at
the look on our faces. Then it was explained to us about the money available
for Appalachian area students, who are considered a minority. Needless to
say, we never looked a gift horse in the mouth and just said Thank You!!!
Please note, not every school offers this, in fact, most don't. But ours go
to a very large state school with a tremendous minority affairs dept. That's
the big difference.
Teapot
Laura M. Young
>
> Appalachian! I know you are surprised...I was, too.
I was hoping you were going to say "Italian-American," and I was going to ask
how I can get my kids on this too!
I am surprised, but I am kind of pleased to hear that people who give out money
for scholarships consider something other than skin color or surname. My
daughter had a four year tuition scholarship which she earned by being in the
top 5% of her graduating class and maintaining a 3.5 GPA in college. That is
something that Arizona put into place at all its state universities in an
attempt to keep some of our brightest students in state. Worked for us...since
we were poor teachers we couldn't have afforded to send her to an Ivy League
school even with a scholarship.
Laura M. Young
> laura...were these kids sick a lot as toddlers and young children? were they on
> antibiodics once a winter or so?
>
> they now say that cavities are from bacteria and i'm wondering if there's a
> correlation between antibiodic use and dental health.
I dunno, but if that were the case then the kids who were sick and on antibiotics
all the time should have FEWER cavities then healthy kids?
Leigh Claffey
> Dish1991 wrote:
>
> > laura...were these kids sick a lot as toddlers and young children? were they on
> > antibiodics once a winter or so?
> >
> > they now say that cavities are from bacteria and i'm wondering if there's a
> > correlation between antibiodic use and dental health.
>
> I dunno, but if that were the case then the kids who were sick and on antibiotics
> all the time should have FEWER cavities then healthy kids?
>
Not necessarily. See antibiotics also kill off the good bacteria that help the
body (which is why after or even during a course of antibiotics they're now
recommending you eat live culture yogurt so the stuff in the yogurt replaces
the good bacteria in your intestines which are there to help break down and
process the food you've eaten). I don't know of any studies that indicate
good bacteria exist in the mouth but I don't see why not.
What tends to rot the teeth (ignoring 'bad genetics') is excess sugars.
IANAD, but I always thought there was enzymes in the saliva that protected
the teeth from excess sugars and not bacteria, but one does not preclude the other.
--Leigh
Teapot Mom
"Laura M. Young" wrote:
> I was hoping you were going to say "Italian-American," and I was going to
>ask how I can get my kids on this too!
Sorry to disappoint, but I didn't see a box for that.
> I am surprised, but I am kind of pleased to hear that people who give out
>money for scholarships consider something other than skin color or surname.
>My daughter had a four year tuition scholarship which she earned by being
in >the top 5% of her graduating class and maintaining a 3.5 GPA in college.
That >is something that Arizona put into place at all its state universities
in an
> attempt to keep some of our brightest students in state. Worked for
>us...since we were poor teachers we couldn't have afforded to send her to
an >Ivy League school even with a scholarship.
There are stipulations with this scholarship as far as maintaining grades,
too. You have a minimum gpa to keep in order to renew each year. They also
offer a counciling center, free tutoring program and aid on books, if
needed. My kids have always worked to pay for their own, so they never
needed this kind of help. We also have a statewide program to encourage
students to 'come back home' to teach. If you agree to teach for a minimum
of five years in a qualifying school in an Appalachian district in the
fields of science, math or foreign language, they will forgive your student
loans. You have to go thru the state dept. of education to check the list of
eligible schools and then hope there is a job opening in your field. It is a
very worthwhile project. Teachers are needed so badly in some areas, but
unfortunately, bc of the economic circumstances, most choose not to live
there. This is a great incentive! It's like getting paid twice.
Teapot
Teapot Mom
"Lori" wrote:
> So that would be above and beyond the usual scholarship they get for their
> high scores? My daughter had high ACT's also and that is where her
> scholarship money came in.
Every college is different in the type and amount of financial aid they
offer. You have to check with your schools. Actually, after you send in the
FAFSA, you would know what's available to you. I didn't mean to imply that
simply bc kids live in an Appalachian area, they would automatically receive
this money. A few kids can qualify for the minority foundation money, and
still get other scholarships, too. Our high school gives out a lot of money
every year...well over $250,000. As with anything, you apply for it all and
wait to see what happens. Scholarship money is out there, you just have to
go looking for it.
Teapot
Dish1991
>What tends to rot the teeth (ignoring 'bad genetics') is excess sugars.
ya, and fruit roll ups!
(i REFUSE to buy them!)
VoxofaFox
Help me.
Lori
at Pitt and Full Tuition at Ohio University. Of course she decided to go to
Case where she has 3/4 tuition paid. We had to cover room and board at all.
They say there are very few full rides.
Lori
"Teapot Mom" <este...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:KlyV9.8976$Yq3.3581@sccrnsc02...
Dish1991
>I don't understand how "Appalachian" is a minority. I have never heard this.
>
>Help me.
here in the east, it is well known that this area is the poorest of the poor.
maybe something like the native american indians are known to be poor out west.
what i don't understand is where the schools get their money from. here in nj,
if i were to live in camden, i am sure my kids would be eligible for lots of
things, but they'd get shot at school or never learn a damn thing! the walls
are falling down in these poor area schools and they have water leaking from
the roof! you have to live in a 'good' neighborhood if you want your kids to
have a decent education herer. anyone in the city who can afford it, sends
their kids to private or catholic school, not public.
REMstar11
>WHAT?!?!?!?!?!
i have not read ahead in the thread so in sorry if this has been posted. there
was a news story on this on some program the other day. many schools are now
offering medical care in low income schools bc one of the reasons these
children do poorly in school is because they are in pain and cannot
concentrate. because they cannot and do not get treatment outside of school
because of financial reasons, some schools are now offering treatments. they
have found that students that do get the free treatment in school have done
much better on tests, homework, and all schoolwork since the medical attention.
its so sad that so many children dont get medical care because their parents
dont have insurance or dont have the money to afford it. i think its great
that these services are being put out there because its necessary.
jen!
Teapot Mom
"Lori" wrote:
> My daughter had full tuition + a little more from Ohio State. Full
tuition
> at Pitt and Full Tuition at Ohio University. Of course she decided to go
to
> Case where she has 3/4 tuition paid. We had to cover room and board at
all.
> They say there are very few full rides.
I think you almost have to be a star athlete to get a full ride. Isn't that
a comment on priorities! Case is a great school!
Teapot
Teapot Mom
"Dish1991" wrote:
> >I don't understand how "Appalachian" is a minority. I have never heard
this.
> >
> >Help me.
I think Dish gave the best explaination. It is very similar to the American
Indians.
>
> here in the east, it is well known that this area is the poorest of the
poor.
> maybe something like the native american indians are known to be poor out
west.
>
> what i don't understand is where the schools get their money from.
A lot of it is thru the private sector and corporations.
>here in nj, if i were to live in camden, i am sure my kids would be
eligible for >lots of things, but they'd get shot at school or never learn a
damn thing!
We don't have that kind of problem here. Of course there are drugs, where
aren't they, but we don't have drive by shootings or the problems of bigger
cities.
>the walls are falling down in these poor area schools and they have
>water leaking from the roof!
Our buildings are about thirty years old, which isn't that bad. But we were
awarded a $59million bond from the state bc the courts have ordered the
state to upgrade the buildings.
>you have to live in a 'good' neighborhood if you want your kids to
> have a decent education here. anyone in the city who can afford it, sends
> their kids to private or catholic school, not public.
This is why I like living here. It's home, we all know one another and we
have decent schools.
Teapot
Laura M. Young
> We also have a statewide program to encourage
> students to 'come back home' to teach. If you agree to teach for a minimum
> of five years in a qualifying school in an Appalachian district in the
> fields of science, math or foreign language, they will forgive your student
> loans. You have to go thru the state dept. of education to check the list of
> eligible schools and then hope there is a job opening in your field. It is a
> very worthwhile project. Teachers are needed so badly in some areas, but
> unfortunately, bc of the economic circumstances, most choose not to live
> there. This is a great incentive! It's like getting paid twice.
I think most states have a similar program. We do in Arizona, in fact the place
I started teaching was one of those areas, but I didn't have any government
loans that I could get "forgiven."
Arizona currently has a desperate teaching shortage. I've mentioned our State
Improvement Grant, of which I will be coordinating one of the three goals. One
of the other goals in this grant has to do with teacher recruitment and
retention. One of the incentives included in that will include some kind of
housing subsidy if teachers come, stay and work in hard-to-recruit areas. I
don't quite know how it works, but I think it may include assistance in
attaining interest free down payments or low interest mortgages. Just one more
incentive. Our shortage has reached critical stage, especially now that "No
Child Left Behind" is mandating fully certified teachers. Many of the schools
with which I've been working have large numbers of emergency certified teachers.
Linn
From: rems...@aol.com (REMstar11) >>
<< i have not read ahead in the thread so in sorry if this has been posted.
there
was a news story on this on some program the other day. many schools are now
offering medical care in low income schools bc one of the reasons these
children do poorly in school is because they are in pain and cannot
concentrate. because they cannot and do not get treatment outside of school
because of financial reasons, some schools are now offering treatments. they
have found that students that do get the free treatment in school have done
much better on tests, homework, and all schoolwork since the medical attention.
Many schools offer breakfast as well, since nutrition plays a huge part in
being able to learn- hard to jump start your brain without fueling it up in the
am!
Linn
Lori
>
>> I think you almost have to be a star athlete to get a full ride. Isn't
that
> a comment on priorities! Case is a great school!
>
> Teapot
I think you are right. Her boyfriend got a perfect 1600 on his SAT and
still didn't get a full ride.
Lori
Dish1991
>
>I think you are right. Her boyfriend got a perfect 1600 on his SAT and
>still didn't get a full ride.
wow!
he just might be able to invent that condom you were thinking about!
Teapot Mom
"Lori" wrote:
> I think you are right. Her boyfriend got a perfect 1600 on his SAT and
> still didn't get a full ride.
WOW! That's an awesome score. I thought my son did well with 1325! But to be
honest, unless you are going to an out of state college, they don't use sat
scores any more. They only look at the ACT's.
Where did the boyfriend end up going to school and what's his major?
Teapot
Lori
My daughter's ACT scores were what got her her Scholarships. She did
extemely well . Those and her GPA. Her SAT's were good but she wanted them
to be better. (But then look what she was comparing them to.) Actually I
think even Pitt looked at her ACT's. In our experience you can get
scholarships based on one and/or the other.
Eddy is at Case with my daughter and 4 of their other friends. That is one
of the reasons she went there. He was going where she was going and she
thought he should go somewhere a little more selective. Not to piss you off
but....She was going to go to Ohio State. Actually his parents would have
probably been OK with Ohio State because that is where they both went. (His
father is an ER Doc.) It sure would have saved me a lot of money. Anyway,
they are both in pre med. You know how that goes though. They are freshmen
and it could change at any time. My daughter is concerned with being a
doctor because her boyfriends father's malpractice insurance went up 450%
last year. She said she know money isn't everything but if she is going to
put in that much time to become a doctor she wants to make some money.
Originally she wanted to do medical research. Her Grandma (my mom) died of
breast cancer a year and a half ago. They were very close. Right now
Psychiatry is interesting her. We'll see. I am not sure what the genius
(Eddy) is thinking about.
Lori
>
>
geek.girl
What is the difference between the ACT and the SAT? Just curious.
Most of the entering "freshman" that I have come across had great SAT's and
did loads of AP classes in High School AND had community college credits.
These students are entering into University close to Junior level and
already working on upper division. I don't fall into that category...lol, I
took the long cheap way, I transferred from a community college into the
University system. ;-) Plus, I'm an "older" student too .. 27, sigh.. But
it's okay, I only have 2 more years.
.tiana
..
01010001*01010100
Chicks dig Unix.
[]remove *QT* to reply[]
Dish1991
>Anyway,
>they are both in pre med. You know how that goes though. They are freshmen
>and it could change at any time. My daughter is concerned with being a
>doctor because her boyfriends father's malpractice insurance went up 450%
>last year. She said she know money isn't everything but if she is going to
>put in that much time to become a doctor she wants to make some money.
about 2 weeks ago i was talking with a nursing student who dropped out of med
school for that very same reason! she said, 'i'm not doing all those years,
accumulating all that debt just to be faced with those kind of bills when i am
done.' so, she's in nursing school now! ;)
how COOL is that!
tell your daughter that if she REALLY wants to make a difference, be a nurse!
:)
(note: america will be short 800,000 nurses by 2020. thanks for the plug;) )
Lori
you! How's your back? How about your feet? Your attitude? ;)
Lori
"Dish1991" <dish...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20030116231526...@mb-me.aol.com...
lug;) )
Laura M. Young
> What is the difference between the ACT and the SAT? Just curious.
They are different college entrance tests. I took the ACT which were what my
state college was looking at 35 years ago, my daughter took the SAT because she
was considering both in and out of state schools. I don't remember the scoring
on the ACT...seems to me like the scores were in the 20's...does anybody remember
this? Daughter got a 1420 out of 1600 possible on the SAT. Different schools
will weight the scores differently, and due to affirmative action, it is possible
that someone with a much higher test score might not be accepted to a
college/university while someone in the right ethnic minority might get in with a
much lower score.
Mary McCool
I also took only the ACT because that's what the schools
which I was considering 32 years ago required. The ACT
scoring is on a scale of 1 to 36 (or maybe 35). Back then
there was no required minimum for admission to a state-run
college, but you had to take it and you had to have a high
school degree. Now I believe there is a minimum for
admissions, and another score determining whether you have
to take some basic remedial type classes. Above a certain
high score qualifies you for the "honors programs". The
scoring corelates to a certain percentile ranking. I don't
know why I can't remember the top score (35 or 36), because
I actually got one of those in the math section!
Mary
Dish1991
>The work is too hard. We have a lot of nurses in our family. God Bless
>you! How's your back? How about your feet? Your attitude? ;)
the work is terrific!!!!
i've been a nurse 16 years and there is no better profession to have a family
and still keep an interesting career! my kids never saw daycare. i never quit.
i never fell behind the technology. my back and feet are perfect.
my attitude is awesome. as readers here can attest. i LOVE my job. i am in
critical care. i am so glad i didn't go to med school. i can make $40 -$60 an
hour when i feel like going in. i get to do brownies, car pool and homework
with my kids. i think i've got it made.
there's many facets to nursing, from homecare to buisness, from psyche
facilites to clinics, from school nursing to research in the pharmaceuticals.
there's training jobs on new cardiac equiptment to teaching at the university.
nursing...take another look.
(this ad has been brought to you by a happy nurse!)
VoxofaFox
<<
i've been a nurse 16 years and there is no better profession to have a family
and still keep an interesting career! my kids never saw daycare. i never quit.
i never fell behind the technology. my back and feet are perfect.
my attitude is awesome. as readers here can attest. i LOVE my job. i am in
critical care. i am so glad i didn't go to med school. i can make $40 -$60 an
hour when i feel like going in. i get to do brownies, car pool and homework
with my kids. i think i've got it made.
there's many facets to nursing, from homecare to buisness, from psyche
facilites to clinics, from school nursing to research in the pharmaceuticals.
there's training jobs on new cardiac equiptment to teaching at the university.
nursing...take another look.
(this ad has been brought to you by a happy nurse!)
>>
When I was stuck in the hospital in Oregon for 6 days, I got to meet a lot of
nurses. Never have I encountered a more caring, bright, cheerful, responsive
and astute batch of people in one setting. I think nursing looks like one of
the toughest jobs around, although everyone of them I talked to....and we did
talk quite a bit....just loved it.
My husband and I found a marked contrast, however, to the level of nursing in
that small town in Oregon as opposed to here in Los Angeles. When hubby was
hospitalized last year we found the nursing extremely abysmal.
Dish1991
>My husband and I found a marked contrast, however, to the level of nursing in
>that small town in Oregon as opposed to here in Los Angeles. When hubby was
>hospitalized last year we found the nursing extremely abysmal.
city hospitals have bigger shortages.
geek.girl
Okay, I understand now, thanks for those great explanations Mary and Laura.
My SAT scores weren't required when I applied because I am a transfer
student.
As for AA, the UC system abolished that a couple years ago. But one of the
great things about California is there transfer programs for California
community college students.
Linn
i am in
critical care. i am so glad i didn't go to med school. i can make $40 -$60 an
hour when i feel like going in.>>
I agree it is a great profession- you get to meet so many incredible people
from all walks of life and have the opportunity to use your skills and your
personality to make a huge difference in their lives.
You never stop learning as the technology and knowledge base continues to grow.
It can be exciting and heartwarming.
And as Dish described, you can't beat the flexibility in terms of specialties,
shifts, and how much you work.
The only thing I would add is that the payscale she quoted can be a little
misleading- I am assuming she is counting in one or more of the following in
the pay she quotes : overtime/bonus/shift differential/per-diem differential.
Starting pay for entry level nurses in the better paid areas of the country ,
even with a degree, is closer to $20-25/hour, and may even be lower in the
south and the midwest. Many hospitals are unionized, which will help to ensure
that your salary will increase commensurate with your experience - otherwise,
some non -union hospitals have been known to keep you at the pay rate you were
hired at, while offering more pay and/or hefty sign on bonuses to new hires in
order to attract nurses. Staffing levels also differ greatly from hospital to
hospital. Nursing can be very rewarding when the nurse/patient ratio allows you
to actually do all the things necessary to ensure good care for your patient.
But when one RN is saddled with 10 patients on a surgical or medical floor, or
3-4 patients in a CCU, it is very easy to get burned out- many nurses have left
the profession, and many more aren't even entering the profession due to poor
staffing and inadequate pay scales in the hospitals in their areas. ( For the
same amount of money and time spent in college, many find they can get better
paying jobs which don't make you work weekends/offshifts/holidays). I think one
of the biggest problems in nursing today is that the lack of new people
entering nursing programs coupled with older nurses leaving the field for other
jobs or retirement leaves many hospitals short staffed.
That all being said, if you can find a hospital that pays well and makes an
effort to ensure adequate staffing, I think you will find it a very
challenging, rewarding, and flexible career!
Linn
Dish1991
>The only thing I would add is that the payscale she quoted can be a little
>misleading- I am assuming she is counting in one or more of the following in
>the pay she quotes : overtime/bonus/shift differential/per-diem differential.
>Starting pay for entry level nurses in the better paid areas of the country ,
>even with a degree, is closer to $20-25/hour, and may even be lower in the
>south and the midwest.
well, yes the starting salaries run in the 40s. however, after about 3 to 4
years of solid experience, you can do per diem/agency/pool where there are some
great pay scales! again, if you marry and your hubby has benefits, this is a
great situation. however, i know of nurses who have left staff postions to work
pool and they are making about $50 average. they are buying their own benefits
and have tons more flexability.
> Staffing levels also differ greatly from hospital to
>hospital. Nursing can be very rewarding when the nurse/patient ratio allows
>you
>to actually do all the things necessary to ensure good care for your patient.
>But when one RN is saddled with 10 patients on a surgical or medical floor,
>or
>3-4 patients in a CCU, it is very easy to get burned out- many nurses have
>left
>the profession, and many more aren't even entering the profession due to poor
>staffing and inadequate pay scales in the hospitals in their areas.
i have never heard of anyone in ccu/icu having more than 3 patients, even at
jefferson or hup. however, you have to remember, interns during their first
year are clobbered with their workload too. i think part of the health care
beast is that it is tough, but if you stick it out the rewards are there. like
i said, after about 4 years you could go work for merck or some medical
equiptment company and get away from the hospital setting if you're looking for
a change.
> For the
>same amount of money and time spent in college, many find they can get better
>paying jobs which don't make you work weekends/offshifts/holidays). I think
>one
>of the biggest problems in nursing today is that the lack of new people
>entering nursing programs coupled with older nurses leaving the field for
>other
>jobs or retirement leaves many hospitals short staffed.
well, most of the applicants for nursing school now tend to be people who were
in other fields and found them disappointing for whatever reasons. this is a
second career for them, after realizing the corporate world wasn't for them (or
whatever.) i think nursing should have a competitive attitude as being a
terrific first choice. think about it, spend 2 and a half years in a nsg
school, work in a clinical area for 3 years, get the hospital to pay for your
bs or ms degree, then take it all, education and experience, and then hit the
'medical corporate' world. you could have all of that by 23 or so.
Teapot Mom
"Laura M. Young" wrote:
> I don't remember the scoring on the ACT...seems to me like the scores were
>in the 20's...does anybody remember this?
36 is the highest you can get. 18 is the average and most schools look at 27
as the magic number for acedemic scholarships. I don't know why, but that's
it.
Teapot
> Different schools will weight the scores differently, and due to
affirmative >action, it is possible that someone with a much higher test
score might not be >accepted to a college/university while someone in the
right ethnic minority >might get in with a much lower score.
I've never heard of this happening, except for this week with U of M and
they've been in the news all week over it. Bush doesn't like the practice.
Teapot
Teapot Mom
"Mary McCool" <wrote:
> I also took only the ACT because that's what the schools
> which I was considering 32 years ago required. The ACT
> scoring is on a scale of 1 to 36 (or maybe 35).
36
>Back then there was no required minimum for admission to a state-run
> college, but you had to take it and you had to have a high
> school degree. Now I believe there is a minimum for
> admissions, and another score determining whether you have
> to take some basic remedial type classes.
I don't think there is a required minimum on the ACT, but kids take a
placement test at orientation. My kids each tested out of math on it, so
they didn't have to take any more classes in college. Also, two tested out
of foreign languages and the oldest missed by one point. So he only had to
take one Spanish class to get the credit.
>Above a certain high score qualifies you for the "honors programs".
Yep, my oldest had scores high enough to put him directly into the college
of engineering and the other went directly into the honors program, where he
took excelled classes and had first pick of all courses offered.
> The scoring corelates to a certain percentile ranking. I don't
> know why I can't remember the top score (35 or 36), because
> I actually got one of those in the math section!
Good for you, Mary!!! That's quite an achievement. These tests are so funny.
I remember being surprised, (pleasantly though) at son number 2's
graduation. The principal asked him to stand while he announced my son had
the highest reading score in the state on their proficiency tests. He had a
perfect 100! The funny part was, this kid hated to read and very rarely ever
picked up a book. He still hates reading! Son number one devours books,
keeping at least three going at a time. He was stunned and naturally being
jealous said, 'this isn't fair'.
Teapot
Laura M. Young
> "Laura M. Young" wrote:
>
> > Different schools will weight the scores differently, and due to
> affirmative >action, it is possible that someone with a much higher test
> score might not be >accepted to a college/university while someone in the
> right ethnic minority >might get in with a much lower score.
>
> I've never heard of this happening, except for this week with U of M and
> they've been in the news all week over it. Bush doesn't like the practice.
There was a big story on 60 Minutes or one of those news magazines not long ago
about it. One school (might have been U of Mich?) got caught and came out
defending it, but there are many others as well. I know of one young woman who
got such favoritism at a school back east just because her step-father who
adopted her gave her his Hispanic last name, and that qualified her as a
"minority."
Laura M. Young
> Above a certain
> high score qualifies you for the "honors programs". The
> scoring corelates to a certain percentile ranking. I don't
> know why I can't remember the top score (35 or 36), because
> I actually got one of those in the math section!
Would you believe I still have the scorebook I got back from my ACT which I took
during the 67-68 school year?? My 4 subject scores ranged from 25 in English
to a 35 in Math with a Composite score of 30. They provided percentile rank
equivalents. Both the 35 and the composite score ranked in the 99th
percentile. I'll bet you that it takes a lot higher score today to get a 99
%ile rank.
Dish1991
>Would you believe I still have the scorebook I got back from my ACT which I
>took
>during the 67-68 school year?? My 4 subject scores ranged from 25 in
>English
>to a 35 in Math with a Composite score of 30. They provided percentile rank
>equivalents. Both the 35 and the composite score ranked in the 99th
>percentile. I'll bet you that it takes a lot higher score today to get a 99
>%ile rank.
i never took this act test.
e or nancy, do we have this in nj?
Linn
From: dish...@aol.comNOSPAM (Dish1991)
well, yes the starting salaries run in the 40s. however, after about 3 to 4
years of solid experience, you can do per diem/agency/pool where there are some
great pay scales! again, if you marry and your hubby has benefits, this is a
great situation.>>
It's a great situation if you don't really need the money- you get no benefits,
and in most places you can be cancelled within a couple of hours of your shift
if they no longer need you. Also, if you do agency, you are working in
different units, with different people, in different hospitals all the time.
>>i have never heard of anyone in ccu/icu having more than 3 patients, even at
jefferson or hup. >>
Have you spoken with nurses in the south, or in the midwest? Even if they
don't plan it that way, all it takes is one sick call, or one extra admission
on an understaffed floor to leave at least one nurse with 3 or 4 patients.
There are also some units who use ancillary staff in units, to help out, thus
decreasing the RN/patient ratio. Believe it or not, there are units where this
happens more often than not.
>>however, you have to remember, interns during their first
year are clobbered with their workload too. >
So are waitresses, but I thought you were talking about how great nursing is as
a career?
> i think part of the health care
beast is that it is tough, but if you stick it out the rewards are there. like
i said, after about 4 years you could go work for merck or some medical
equiptment company and get away from the hospital setting if you're looking for
a change.>
And this is exactly why hospitals have staffing problems- in part, like I said
before, because of nurses leaving for greener pastures- more money, better
benefits, no worries about poor staffing, and weekends/off shifts/holidays off.
What you are basically saying here is, *nursing is wonderful, come be a nurse,
and then after a couple of years you can leave for a better job.*
>well, most of the applicants for nursing school now tend to be people who were
in other fields and found them disappointing for whatever reasons. this is a
second career for them, after realizing the corporate world wasn't for them (or
whatever.) >
Those people do not make up for the thousands of people who are no longer
entering nursing programs. Have you seen any of the statistics? The numbers of
people no longer entering nursing are staggering, and that coupled with people
leaving make for a very bleak future for the profession, and more so for the
people who need to be taken care of in hospitals.
>i think nursing should have a competitive attitude as being a
terrific first choice. think about it, spend 2 and a half years in a nsg
school, work in a clinical area for 3 years, get the hospital to pay for your
bs or ms degree, then take it all, education and experience, and then hit the
'medical corporate' world. you could have all of that by 23 or so.>
THere are very few RN programs left that are 2 year programs- BSN is pretty
much entry level now. Get the hospital to pay for your BSN? HAHAHA! Most
places will give you a certain amount of tuition assistance based on how many
hours you work, but I haven't heard of any hospital that will pay entirely for
your BSN/MSN
(although that doesn't mean there aren't any out there, maybe you can name a
few?) And taking that route, and then leaving hospital nursing for the
corporate world, is a huge part of the staffing problems in hospitals.
To say that nursing is a great job, and then to turn around and say that it is
merely a stepping stone to a corporate job, seems to be contradictory.
Linn
Linn
<< There are also some units who use ancillary staff in units, to help out,
thus
decreasing the RN/patient ratio. Believe it >>
oops, I meant to say increasing the pt to nurse ratio.
Dish1991
>It's a great situation if you don't really need the money- you get no
>benefits,
>and in most places you can be cancelled within a couple of hours of your
>shift
>if they no longer need you.
i think you mean if you don't need benefits. nonetheless, you can buy benefits
yourself. my friend's husband owns a landscaping buisness and clears about
$60/hr in season. they have to buy their own benefits. why can't nurses start
thinking independently? besides, by the time you pay for them, they aren't even
that great. you're locked into the hospitals doctors and labs etc. you can shop
around and buy what you need.
>Also, if you do agency, you are working in
>different units, with different people, in different hospitals all the time.
>
where i work, you can not be canceled if you commit to 32 hours a week! i am
flexable and easy going so i don't really mind going to different places.
>Have you spoken with nurses in the south, or in the midwest?
we could just ask ruby v for her opinion...ruby????
>And this is exactly why hospitals have staffing problems- in part, like I
>said
>before, because of nurses leaving for greener pastures- more money, better
>benefits, no worries about poor staffing, and weekends/off shifts/holidays
>off.
>What you are basically saying here is, *nursing is wonderful, come be a
>nurse,
>and then after a couple of years you can leave for a better job.*
as they should. no one should stay at a place they're unhappy. whether it's
home care or a clinic. you can take your experience and do better for YOURSELF.
why not. capitalism at its finest, and nurses, like everyone else shouldn't
feel badly about taking opportunities that better themselves.
i think part of the image problem is the belief that you get stuck with such a
hard job assisgnment. well, if people do not feel 'stuck' they might see
hospitals as stepping stones to better things and once they think that way,
maybe we'll get more people overall entering. once they come on board, we get
more staff and they get their experience! everyone wins, IF we can recruit them
in. negative staffing stories don't help. making bedside care appear as part of
a stepping stone in a lifetime career might. kind of like the teachers they
recruit to work in the inner cities etc that laura spoke about. they know it's
going to suck, but they do it bc there are rewards at the end...laons will be
paid etc. do they stay..maybe, maybe not. but you have got to get them there
first before you can even worry about that.
> Have you seen any of the statistics? The numbers of
>people no longer entering nursing are staggering, and that coupled with
>people
>leaving make for a very bleak future for the profession, and more so for the
>people who need to be taken care of in hospitals.
i was involved in a report for the ad council. at seton hall, admissions are up
this year and 70% are second career adults!
>THere are very few RN programs left that are 2 year programs- BSN is pretty
>much entry level now.
not here. it's about half and half. i have both and i think bsn nurses aren't
good clinicians myself. they aren't prepared for the work. they had too much
book time and not nearly enough clinical. they're the first ones to leave!!
> Get the hospital to pay for your BSN? HAHAHA! Most
>places will give you a certain amount of tuition assistance based on how many
>hours you work, but I haven't heard of any hospital that will pay entirely
>for
>your BSN/MSN
>(although that doesn't mean there aren't any out there, maybe you can name a
>few?) An
yes, overlook hospital in summit nj paid for my bsn in its entirety when i
worked full time in their cardiac unit. in addition, i also won a scholarship
that helped pay for my books! there are tons of nsg scholarships out there now!
when i was a manager (ft), the hospital paid for my msn too. i never completed
it :( of course there were caps, but i went to the state university and taking
about 12 credits a year, i was always under that cap.
>) And taking that route, and then leaving hospital nursing for the
>corporate world, is a huge part of the staffing problems in hospitals.
like i said, i think we need to focus on recruiting first bc without it,
there's no retention issue to debate!
>the staffing problems in hospitals.
>To say that nursing is a great job, and then to turn around and say that it
>is
>merely a stepping stone to a corporate job, seems to be contradictory.
nursing is a great job! you do seem dismayed though. i always thought that. NO
one in any career should feel trapped. there are great reasons to stay at the
bedside, but if it's not for someone long term, we shoudn't put them down for
achieving what's better for themselves. we should encourage them, so that
nursing can be seen for what it really is...
**endless** opportunity in the health care arena.
(presently, i'm looking into doing phone triage on weekends and i have reviewed
charts for paralegals on the side as well!)
Linn
>i think you mean if you don't need benefits. nonetheless, you can buy benefits
yourself.>
No, I meant if you don't NEED the money. If you are counting on a certain
amount of money each week to pay your mortgage and bills, and to pay for your
health insurance, you could get screwed doing per-diem. If you plan on working
3 days a week and they end up cancelling you, you are really stuck. However, if
your husband is the main breadwinner, and you are working to earn extra money
for vacations, clothes, or just to add a bit to the family income, it works out
fine.
>>my friend's husband owns a landscaping buisness and clears about
$60/hr in season. they have to buy their own benefits. why can't nurses start
thinking independently?>>
Like I said above, if you go perdiem for the flexibility, and then get
cancelled frequently, you are not going to be making enough to pay bills and
insurance costs. And I know very few nurses, even agency nurses , who "clear"
$60/hr on a regular basis. Most staff nurses however can get benefits
pro-rated where they work- I don't think this means they are not independent.
>>besides, by the time you pay for them, they aren't even
that great. you're locked into the hospitals doctors and labs etc. you can shop
around and buy what you need.>
Maybe it's different in Ma. Most places here give you a choice from about 5
comparable major health plans, so you can pretty much choose your dr and
hospital without difficulty. If you want to change your doctor, you just call
up the plan and tell them. No problem.
>where i work, you can not be canceled if you commit to 32 hours a week! >
Well, if you are working 32 hours /week, you might as well work staff!!!! Most
people go perdiem because they want to work less, not more!!
>>we could just ask ruby v for her opinion...ruby????
Actually, it would be interesting for any of the lurking nurses to weigh in
with the starting pay, staffing ratios, etc in their areas.
> no one should stay at a place they're unhappy. whether it's
home care or a clinic. you can take your experience and do better for YOURSELF.
why not. capitalism at its finest, and nurses, like everyone else shouldn't
feel badly about taking opportunities that better themselves.>
Of course, no one should stay in a job they don't like. I am just saying, if I
were looking for a career, and heard you say "be a nurse, it's great" and then
say " use it for a stepping stone to a better job", I'd think twice about being
a nurse. I'd probably to straight to the corporate job and forget about the
stepping stone!!
>i think part of the image problem is the belief that you get stuck with such a
hard job assisgnment.>
I think it's because the pay does not increase commensurate with experience in
the same way that it increases in other jobs, having to work w/e and holidays,
and the staffing problems that you always hear about.
>i was involved in a report for the ad council. at seton hall, admissions are
up
this year and 70% are second career adults!>
That's very nice, but that is just one school. What about all the schools that
have closed? Are admissions up enough to offset all the nurses that have left
the profession this year? This is a very broad problem.
>>not here. it's about half and half. i have both and i think bsn nurses aren't
good clinicians myself. they aren't prepared for the work. they had too much
book time and not nearly enough clinical. they're the first ones to leave!!>
Because they are using it as a stepping stone!
>>yes, overlook hospital in summit nj paid for my bsn in its entirety when i
worked full time in their cardiac unit. in addition, i also won a scholarship
that helped pay for my books! there are tons of nsg scholarships out there now!
That's good to hear. Too bad it is not widespread.
>like i said, i think we need to focus on recruiting first bc without it,
there's no retention issue to debate!
Yes, recruiting is important.
>nursing is a great job! you do seem dismayed though.
I am not personally dismayed. I am lucky to work in a great place, with
excellent pay, staffing and benefits. And lucky to not have to work full time,
too. I am just being realistic about the profession at large. If you think its
all rosy, you really do have your head in the sand.
>there are great reasons to stay at the
bedside, but if it's not for someone long term, we shoudn't put them down for
achieving what's better for themselves. we should encourage them, so that
nursing can be seen for what it really is...>
I agree. I just think if you are going to entice people into nursing, it's
important to be realistic. To tell someone they will be making $40-60/hr is
misleading, because no entry level person will make that much money.
I have no problems with people finding work that they like and are good at, and
would never put someone down for advancing themselves. I was commenting on the
state of the profession and the current problems it faces.
Linn
Laura M. Young
>
> >Also, if you do agency, you are working in
> >different units, with different people, in different hospitals all the time.
> >
>
> where i work, you can not be canceled if you commit to 32 hours a week! i am
> flexable and easy going so i don't really mind going to different places.
>
I used to have a neighbor here in Scottsdale who worked for an agency. They
booked 12 hour shifts, and she had 3 hospitals around our area that she signed up
to work. She worked 3 days a week making a whole lot more than teachers do around
here, and since she worked the same places all the time she got to know the
people, procedures and routines so it wasn't like she was always an outsider. She
told me she had no interest in taking a regular job any more after working that
way. I'm not sure what she did for medical insurance, but she had a couple of
kids and she loved the flexibility. If one of the kids got sick or she needed to
do something for them, she just opted not to work that day.
>There are very few RN programs left that are 2 year programs- BSN is pretty
> >much entry level now.
>
> not here. it's about half and half. i have both and i think bsn nurses aren't
> good clinicians myself. they aren't prepared for the work. they had too much
> book time and not nearly enough clinical. they're the first ones to leave!!
Seems I've been hearing for 25 years or more that someone (not sure who would make
the decision) was going to eliminate 2 year nursing programs. I guess there is
enough of a shortage in the field though that it has never been feasible to do
that.
Linn
From: "Laura M. Young" lmyoung50 >>
<< She
told me she had no interest in taking a regular job any more after working that
way. I'm not sure what she did for medical insurance, but she had a couple of
kids and she loved the flexibility. If one of the kids got sick or she needed
to
do something for them, she just opted not to work that day. >>
Well, as a staff nurse, if you wake up in the am and your kid is sick, you call
in and say you are taking an earned time day, and you still get paid for it
from your earned time bank. That must be what she also did as a perdiem-
usually you are booked at the very least a couple of days ahead of time-
usually they book you at the same time they make out the rest of the schedule,
to fill in the holes. Where I work we have 6 week schedules, so the perdiem
would submit the days she wants to work, and be on the schedule for those days.
If her kids were sick or whatever, she would have to call in sick, but she
wouldn't get paid because per deims don't get benefits ( usually). I doubt
that she would just wake up in the morning, call the agency, and say " I want
to work today, where shall I go?"
<< Seems I've been hearing for 25 years or more that someone (not sure who
would make
the decision) was going to eliminate 2 year nursing programs. I guess there is
enough of a shortage in the field though that it has never been feasible to do
that.
>>
The ANA is still pushing for BSN to be the minimum entry level into nursing.
Pretty much all of the 3 year diploma schools have been closed in Ma., and a
lot of the 2 year AD schools have dropped their nursing programs as well. I'm
sure it varies state to state.
Linn
Skip and Martha Anderson
wrote:
Not sure about the ranking, but my daughter got a 32 on her ACT and
all of the colleges she's applied to seem to find that impressive.
Martha Anderson (who can't for the life of her remember what she got
on her SATs about a million years ago.)
Laura M. Young
> Martha Anderson (who can't for the life of her remember what she got
> on her SATs about a million years ago.)
Well, let's not talk about REMEMBERING! I have the scores in hard copy here to look
at. All I managed to REMEMBER is that I had seen these when my daughter took her
tests a half dozen years ago and I found mine then!
Ruby Vee
Dish1991 wrote:
> we could just ask ruby v for her opinion...ruby????
>
Sorry, guys. I came late to this discussion having marked the thread as "read" the
last few times I read this newsgroup. (I thought it was all about teeth bonding or
whatever and wasn't interested. Little did I know it was going to turn into
something about nursing!) So help me out here -- what is the question?
Ruby Vee
Ruby Vee
Linn wrote:
> No, I meant if you don't NEED the money. If you are counting on a certainamount
> of money each week to pay your mortgage and bills, and to pay for your
> health insurance, you could get screwed doing per-diem. If you plan on working
> 3 days a week and they end up cancelling you, you are really stuck.
I've quit staff jobs (not per-diem, but full-fledged staff jobs) because I was
getting cancelled once a week or more. After a month or so of that, you run
through all of your benefit time and start taking leave without pay. And even
though you have the benefits, you still can't make your mortgage payment without
other income. In the current climate of shortage, however, that isn't likely to
happen!
> Like I said above, if you go perdiem for the flexibility, and then get
> cancelled frequently, you are not going to be making enough to pay bills and
> insurance costs. And I know very few nurses, even agency nurses , who "clear"
> $60/hr on a regular basis.
I don't know anyone who makes that much! And I've worked on the east coast,
midwest and now Pacific northwest! (Granted, Boston was 20 years ago.)
> Maybe it's different in Ma. Most places here give you a choice from about 5
> comparable major health plans,
We get a choice of health plans as well -- and we get full benefits if we work 50%
or more. We have lots of women working just 50% to get the benefits because their
husbands are independently employed and can't get them. (We also have lots of
women whose husbands won't work, but that's another story!)
> >where i work, you can not be canceled if you commit to 32 hours a week! >
>
> Well, if you are working 32 hours /week, you might as well work staff!!!! Most
> people go perdiem because they want to work less, not more!!
The perdiems I work with work per diem because they want to change jobs without
working nights. Only way I know of to do that around here! You can do it IF you
have a spouse who has benefits. I don't know any single people who do it, though.
Gotta go -- Hubby's standing at the door with his coat on, waiting to go to the
boat show!
Ruby Vee
Dish1991
>Sorry, guys. I came late to this discussion having marked the thread as
>"read" the
>last few times I read this newsgroup. (I thought it was all about teeth
>bonding or
>whatever and wasn't interested. Little did I know it was going to turn into
>something about nursing!) So help me out here -- what is the question?
>
what do you think of nursing? do you like it? what do you find difficult about
the work and what do you find enjoyable? have you taken any type of tuition
reimbursement? does your hospital pay well? do you ever think about doing
agency? are you at the 'bedside' bc you like it or do you feel 'stuck?' have
you ever thought about other opportunities besides the 'bedside?'
just let it all out..the good and the bad.
in the end...are you glad you chose nsg??
Dish1991
>The ANA is still pushing for BSN to be the minimum entry level into
>nursing.
i too, advocate the bsn become the entry level degree, but i'm also realistic
and see that we need nurses..some fine nurses fast and if nsg schools can
recruit and educate them and they can pass the boards, i say bring them on!
>Pretty much all of the 3 year diploma schools have been closed in Ma., and a
>lot of the 2 year AD schools have dropped their nursing programs as well. I'm
>sure it varies state to state.
yes, it must. that sounds like a shame! i think here in nj we have more 3
year/nsg schools than college bsn programs!
Dish1991
>Seems I've been hearing for 25 years or more that someone (not sure who would
>make
>the decision) was going to eliminate 2 year nursing programs. I guess there
>is
>enough of a shortage in the field though that it has never been feasible to
>do
yep laura. the american hospital assoc. & the ama have been able to go head to
head with the ana on this. nsg school grads make fine clinicians, as they are
trained specifically for theat job!
Dish1991
>No, I meant if you don't NEED the money. If you are counting on a certain
>amount of money each week to pay your mortgage and bills, and to pay for your
>health insurance, you could get screwed doing per-diem.
well, like ruby said, they're so short, you rarely get cancelled. i think i've
been canceled maybe twice this entire year. i can call staffing at 3 if i know
my hubby will be home and ask them if they'd like me to come in from 7p - 11:30
and about half the time they are SO glad to have me. in addition, i finally had
to have a conversation with the staffing coordinator bc she was calling me
about 3 times a week to work in addition to the hours i submitted. i can't just
drop the kids and go in. funny, recently, i called in sick and they called ME
back after maybe 3 hours or so to see if i could 'replace' myself! that was
kind of funny!
>However, if
>your husband is the main breadwinner, and you are working to earn extra money
>for vacations, clothes, or just to add a bit to the family income, it works
>out
>fine.
there are tons of single moms who are nurses. a lot work 3 12s full time and do
some agency on the side!
>. And I know very few nurses, even agency nurses , who "clear"
>$60/hr on a regular basis. Most staff nurses however can get benefits
>pro-rated where they work- I don't think this means they are not independent.
well, if you commit to every saturday and sunday 11p to 7p, they are paying $60
in the pool by me. do you have "baylor programs?" they are these people who
work just weekends and get paid full time AND get benefits. some "baylors" are
leaving that for the pool rates. seriously, a few are buying their benefits on
their own now!
>Maybe it's different in Ma. Most places here give you a choice from about 5
>comparable major health plans, so you can pretty much choose your dr and
>hospital without difficulty. If you want to change your doctor, you just call
>up the plan and tell them. No problem.
well, ya demographics are a factor. at my hospital, your health care is free
(ie: no copay etc.) if you use their docs and their lab etc. if you want to go
somewhere else, you have to pay the deductible. people are still paying about
$50 a week for this!
>Well, if you are working 32 hours /week, you might as well work staff!!!!
>Most
>people go perdiem because they want to work less, not more!!
ya but linn, at $40 - 60/hr x 32 hours a week...can you blame them!!!???
>I am just saying, if I
>were looking for a career, and heard you say "be a nurse, it's great" and
>then
>say " use it for a stepping stone to a better job", I'd think twice about
>being
>a nurse. I'd probably to straight to the corporate job and forget about the
>stepping stone!!
there are lots of things that stink about EVERY job imaginable. from buisness
to retail. from food service to teaching. i think ngs is really no different.
however, it is different bc if you're not happy in one area...there are about
50 others!
>That's very nice, but that is just one school. What about all the schools
>that
>have closed? Are admissions up enough to offset all the nurses that have left
>the profession this year? This is a very broad problem.
that's why we need to recruit heavily in high schools and tell them...
'guys, this is one great opportunity!'
not...
'staffing sucks.'
>they're the first ones to leave!!>
>
>Because they are using it as a stepping stone!
more power to them! i hope they tell the world how many great opportunites they
have!!!
>I am not personally dismayed. I am lucky to work in a great place, with
>excellent pay, staffing and benefits. And lucky to not have to work full
>time,
>too. I am just being realistic about the profession at large.
>I am not personally dismayed. I am lucky to work in a great place, with
>excellent pay, staffing and benefits. And lucky to not have to work full
>time,
>too. I am just being realistic about the profession at large.
let me ask you this (i asked 200 nurses this for the study...) would you rather
have more money or more staff at the bedside???
>If you think its
>all rosy, you really do have your head in the sand.
>
that's mean.
see, i am just a positive person. i L O V E nursing! there's something so cool
about getting your swan all set up and getting the outputs and explaining it
all to the family. there's something cool about rolling over you patient to see
that there's no breakdown bc you care about them not getting any. there's
something cool about bugging the resident to come see your patient bc they're
not sating well and you want them to be re tubed and being right on the ball.
there's something so cool about getting the ecg in the er and mixing the tpa
before being told to. to me, it's great. if the time comes i'm not happy, there
are many other things i can do.
i do NOT have my head in the sand.
but my heart's in nursing.
>To tell someone they will be making $40-60/hr is
>misleading, because no entry level person will make that much money
i said after 4 years or so of experience, they can.
>I was commenting on the
>state of the profession and the current problems it faces.
>
and linn, to be quite honest here, i hate when all nurses do is complain. it
does NOTHING to help the 'current state' of the profession and just fuels the
negative images.
Ruby Vee
Dish1991 wrote:
> what do you think of nursing? do you like it? what do you find difficult about
> the work and what do you find enjoyable? have you taken any type of tuition
> reimbursement? does your hospital pay well? do you ever think about doing
> agency? are you at the 'bedside' bc you like it or do you feel 'stuck?' have
> you ever thought about other opportunities besides the 'bedside?'
>
> just let it all out..the good and the bad.
>
> in the end...are you glad you chose nsg??
WHEW! That's a LOT of questions!
In the end, I'm glad I chose nursing, although there are certainly times I wish
I'd stayed a journalism major! I was pre-med for awhile, and I'm certainly glad I
didn't go through with that after seeing what they go through during med school
and residency. My private time is more important to me than the money, so I'm
pretty sure I made the right choice.
I graduated from a BSN program in 1978 and went to work at a hospital that had
their own diploma program. My next job was at another hospital that also had a
diploma hospital, and I took a lot of shit at both hospitals because I had the
degree. While it is true that diploma grads hit the ground running and it took me
awhile to get up to speed, I'm glad I started with the BSN rather than having to
go back to get it. I worked on the floors for five years before going into ICU,
and I love ICU nursing. I go through periods of burn-out, and during one of them
I went back to school (while working full time) and got an MBA. No tuition
reimbursement -- but it was more fun than anything else I could have done with the
time or the money at that point in my life! But after I graduated, I couldn't
give up the ICU -- guess I'm an adrenaline junkie.
There have been two periods in my life when I felt really stuck, and they were
nightmares. In 1980, I took the worst job I've ever had. It was at a very famous
teaching hospital on the east coast -- somewhere I wanted to work because it was
the "best." I chose the most challenging floor, too. But it was short staffed --
which is putting it mildly. Agency nurses and floats didn't want to work on our
floor because the work was so challenging, so we often STAYED short staffed.
There were days I had 15 patients with the dubious "help" of an aide who spent the
entire shift in the linen closet sleeping. I had just moved to a new city and
didn't know anyone except my co-workers (who weren't interested in making friends
with the new BSN nurse straight off the farm) and my husband (who I'd just kicked
out for cheating) and I was diagnosed with cervical cancer. I had to have health
insurance, so either I had to keep the husband or keep the job. Man, did I feel
stuck!!! I used to cry every day all the way to work! That lasted almost a year,
and I cringe to think how ineffective I must have been on the job. In the end, I
found a job that would give me health insurance from the first day although I had
to move 1000 miles to take it, it was well worth the move! (This was before the
COBRA plan.) The other time was right after I bought my house. Every other
hospital in town was laying off nurses, and I had serious problems with my
manager. I couldn't leave town, and none of the other hospitals were hiring.
This went on for about nine months or so. It wasn't as bad as the east coast job,
but it was miserable. In the end, it seemed that EVERYONE was having problems
with the manager, and she's now going through drug rehab.
My hospital pays OK. At the time I took the job, it was the best pay in town, and
now it's probably the worst. But there is job security here, I work straight days
now and it's a tertiary institution, which is important to me. As staff, I had
the opportunity to take extra classes to learn to take care of balloon pump
patients (which I already knew, but had to get recertified anyway), Ventricular
Assist Devices and do dialysis. So I have "special skills" and can take care of
any patient that rolls through the door. I'm also on the team that teaches
everyone else how to take care of VAD patients, so I teach classes, present at
national conferences and have written journal articles. All this as a staff
nurse, which is pretty cool.
Hubby is a nurse as well, and for years we both worked in the ICU (same shift).
We worked 12 hour shifts (2 together and we each worked one day alone so the other
person had the house to themselves for a day) and had three days a week off
together. It was a really nice life! We worked every weekend and then played
during the week. Never had to stand in line for the ski lift or the movies, and
the campsites were all free when we went camping! Now he's working M-F in the
Cath Lab, and I really miss our nice lifestyle!
Agency has never tempted me, and as a per diem, I wouldn't have had the
opportunities to get certified in balloon pump, VADs or dialysis so I would have
missed out on a lot of what makes my job interesting and challenging. (I'd like
to say that just caring for people is satisfying, but frankly I like the
intellectual challenges as well!) But traveling is tempting! We'd like to move
to the east coast to be closer to family, and traveling is GREAT money! I just
talked to a traveler who is making the same money I am, with benefits, PLUS he and
his wife (also a traveler) get $2300/month on top of that for housing! And,
because I'm too old for that night shift shit, I'm tempted because I know that I
can sign a contract for straight days. (Some hospitals make their own staff work
nights and sign travelers for day shift.)
I've had decent pay, plenty of flexibility and no trouble finding a job ever.
(Except when I've had other problems going on that prevented moving.) Working
12s, it's easy to "stack" my shifts so that I can take nearly 2 weeks off without
taking ANY benefit time. That way I can take several vacations a year -- and
there have been years when I did. (Before the mortgage, though!) The idea of
working Monday through Friday with two weeks vacation a year is not appealing at
all!
Plus I meet lots of interesting (and sometimes famous) people!
WHEW! I didn't mean to be so long winded!
Ruby Vee
Dish1991
>I went back to school (while working full time) and got an MBA. No tuition
>reimbursement --
would there have been if you were working on your msn??
>There were days I had 15 patients with the dubious "help" of an aide who
>spent the
>entire shift in the linen closet sleeping.
you know i'd have a few choice words for that bitch ;)
>I had just moved to a new city and
>didn't know anyone except my co-workers (who weren't interested in making
>friends
>with the new BSN nurse straight off the farm) and my husband (who I'd just
>kicked
>out for cheating) and I was diagnosed with cervical cancer. I had to have
>health
>insurance, so either I had to keep the husband or keep the job. Man, did I
>feel
>stuck!!!
wow...that sounds horrible! i am glad everything worked out well for you in the
end!
> The other time was right after I bought my house. Every other
>hospital in town was laying off nurses, and I had serious problems with my
>manager. I couldn't leave town, and none of the other hospitals were hiring.
>This went on for about nine months or so.
but you know, don't you think a lot of other workers in life have the same
dilemmas? i don't think things like this are exclusive to nsg.
>But there is job security here, I work straight days
>now and it's a tertiary institution, which is important to me. As staff, I
>had
>the opportunity to take extra classes to learn to take care of balloon pump
>patients (which I already knew, but had to get recertified anyway),
>Ventricular
>Assist Devices and do dialysis. So I have "special skills" and can take care
>of
>any patient that rolls through the door. I'm also on the team that teaches
>everyone else how to take care of VAD patients, so I teach classes, present
>at
>national conferences and have written journal articles. All this as a staff
>nurse, which is pretty cool.
very cool! and why not a staff nurse! who knows better ;) i got the ballon pump
cert about 12 years ago, when i too was full time. i think when you're staff
you should take any class that's offered to you!
>We worked 12 hour shifts (2 together and we each worked one day alone so the
>other
>person had the house to themselves for a day) and had three days a week off
>together. It was a really nice life! We worked every weekend and then
>played
>during the week. Never had to stand in line for the ski lift or the movies,
>and
>the campsites were all free when we went camping! Now he's working M-F in
>the
>Cath Lab, and I really miss our nice lifestyle!
>
see, there are some great things! why did he go to the cath lab? for no w/e &
holidays?? again, another option along with endoscopy & same day surgery etc!
>Agency has never tempted me, and as a per diem, I wouldn't have had the
>opportunities to get certified in balloon pump, VADs or dialysis so I would
>have
>missed out on a lot of what makes my job interesting and challenging. (I'd
>like
>to say that just caring for people is satisfying, but frankly I like the
>intellectual challenges as well!)
yep! you know, you could make some killer money in outpatient hemo on the side
;)
> But traveling is tempting! We'd like to move
>to the east coast to be closer to family, and traveling is GREAT money! I
>just
>talked to a traveler who is making the same money I am, with benefits, PLUS
>he and
>his wife (also a traveler) get $2300/month on top of that for housing! And,
>because I'm too old for that night shift shit, I'm tempted because I know
>that I
>can sign a contract for straight days. (Some hospitals make their own staff
>work
>nights and sign travelers for day shift.)
when i was younger a lot of my friends did the traveling thing. 2 went to
hawaii for 3 months!
>WHEW! I didn't mean to be so long winded!
thanks for sharing ruby, really. you rarely talk about work, which makes me
think you're pretty content!
Linn
>well, like ruby said, they're so short, you rarely get cancelled. >
HUH? What Ruby said was: "I've quit staff jobs...because I was
getting cancelled once a week or more."
>i think i've
been canceled maybe twice this entire year. >
That's good for you, but that doesn't mean it is reflective of per diems
everywhere.
>> the staffing coordinator was calling me
about 3 times a week to work in addition to the hours i submitted. i can't just
drop the kids and go in. >
Which is another reason why most nurses can't count on per-diem as their sole
means of support. It's great to be called last minute, but doesn't do you any
good if you can't go in due to not having time to plan for child care.
>>there are tons of single moms who are nurses. a lot work 3 12s full time and
do
some agency on the side! >
We were discussing per diems, not single moms who are staff nurses. There is a
big difference.
Even Ruby said "The perdiems I work with work per diem because they want to
change jobs without
working nights...You can do it IF you
have a spouse who has benefits. I don't know any single people who do it,
though."
>>well, if you commit to every saturday and sunday 11p to 7p, they are paying
$60
in the pool by me.>
you make $60/hr every sat/sun night? that's pretty incredible.
> do you have "baylor programs?" >
yes, we have baylor on certain floors. 2 12 hour shifts every weekend, and you
get paid for 36hrs, and benefits are pro-rated. ( they used to pay 40hrs with
full benefits years ago when staffing was really poor.)
>ya but linn, at $40 - 60/hr x 32 hours a week...can you blame them!!!???>
So you are saying that your hospital pays $60/hr if you work 32 hrs a week per
diem? Where do I sign up?
; )
>that's why we need to recruit heavily in high schools and tell them...
>'guys, this is one great opportunity!'
>not...
>'staffing sucks.'>
But telling someone that they should go into nursing just to use it as a
stepping stone is basically saying that its not a great career in and of
itself, but only useful to get somewhere else! And I never said that you should
recruit people by telling them that "staffing sucks". Nor should you present an
unrealistic picture of what is involved.
>let me ask you this (i asked 200 nurses this for the study...) would you
rather
>have more money or more staff at the bedside???>
Since staffing is already good where I work, I guess I would opt for the money!
( seriously, adequate staffing is a priority, but in order to attract staff,
hospitals have to offer adequate pay and benefits, competetive with other
hospitals in their area- so the two really go hand-in-hand).
>>>If you think its
>>>all rosy, you really do have your head in the sand.>
>that's mean.
>see, i am just a positive person. i L O V E nursing! >
There is nothing mean about that at all. The reality of the profession is that,
for a number of reasons, there is an ongoing nationwide shortage of nurses.
It's great that you are positive and love nursing, but just because you are in
an area of the country that pays well, and you are not putting your license on
the line every time you work due to unsafe staffing levels, doesn't mean that
serious problems in the profession don't exist. People looking into nursing
read the papers, they talk to other nurses, they know what's going on. In
order to make the profession better and attract nurses into it, it's necessary
to first be aware of the state of the profession, and then work to correct the
existing problems. Many states are petitioning their legislatures to pass safe
staffing acts, and to get rid of mandatory overtime. These 2 things alone will
make a huge difference in the ability of nurses to take good care of their
patients, and make it easier to attract new nurses. To ignore the problems
because you "love nursing" will not make them go away.
>>>To tell someone they will be making $40-60/hr is
>misleading, because no entry level person will make that much money
>i said after 4 years or so of experience, they can.>
Very few places, ( and none that I know of), pay $60/hr , even after 4 years.
As Ruby said, she doesn't know anyone who makes that much, and she has worked
on both coasts and the midwest.
>and linn, to be quite honest here, i hate when all nurses do is complain. it
>does NOTHING to help the 'current state' of the profession and just fuels the
negative images.>
It's not complaining to paint a realistic picture of what nursing is.
Personally, I have nothing to complain about. But I hope that nurses who are
plagued with poor staffing, not enough equipment, mandatory overtime, and poor
pay scales do complain and work to improve the working conditions where they
are. To accept those kind of working conditions, and believe me they DO exist,
is to put their patients in jeopardy, and I like to think that bottom line we
all became nurses because we care a great deal about people and want to do our
best to get them well.
Linn
Linn
<< My private time is more important to me than the money, so I'm
pretty sure I made the right choice.
>>
Me too! I was especially happy to be able to take of 3 years after each one of
my children was born, w/o losing seniority. Back then, you could stay perdierm,
and if you didn't schedule yourself, you wouldn't get your anniversary raise,
but they would keep you on staff and you would keep your seniority. It's very
different now!
<< But after I graduated, I couldn't
give up the ICU -- guess I'm an adrenaline junkie.
>>
While working in ICU I oriented in GI and did occasional perdiem there- when a
position opened up there, I was first in line for it as I was already working
there- but I realized that even though the hours were great, I would get pretty
bored if that is all I was doing, so I stayed in ICU, and haven't regretted it
one bit!
<< There have been two periods in my life when I felt really stuck, and they
were
nightmares. >>
Glad they were relatively short periods and you got through them! Sounds like
you are in a good place right now!
<< At the time I took the job, it was the best pay in town, and
now it's probably the worst. But there is job security here, >>
Job security is important!! As hard as it is to believe, in this era of
shortages, some hospitals still lay off nurses as the first step in fixing
their broken budgets! ( meanwhile, the ceo gives himself a great big bonus for
cutting the budget! I kid you not!) It only takes a few months of having to go
on diversion and having increased "patient incidents" for the facility to
realize that in order to take good care of patients, they need to have lots of
good nurses!! DOH!!! Then they go scrambling to hire nurses, and often end up
having to hire travelers or agency nurses at costs way above what they were
paying the nurses they laid off!
<< We worked 12 hour shifts (2 together and we each worked one day alone so the
other
person had the house to themselves for a day) and had three days a week off
together. It was a really nice life! >>
Now THAT is the best of all worlds!!!!
<< But traveling is tempting! We'd like to move
to the east coast to be closer to family, and traveling is GREAT money! >>
We have used travelers off and on for the past several years - they have to
stay a minimum of 4 months. They get free housing, but if they are staying with
friends or family in the area, they get the housing money as a stipend. The
travelers we've had have all been top notch nurses and have fit in really well-
and many have come back again and again. If you are not bound to an area due to
kids in school or family obligations , or your spouse's job, its a great way to
see the country!
>WHEW! I didn't mean to be so long winded!
You weren't long winded at all!! Enjoyed reading about your experiences!
Linn
Dish1991
> HUH? What Ruby said was: "I've quit staff jobs...because I was
>getting cancelled once a week or more."
in the other post...'nsg profession.'
>Since staffing is already good where I work, I guess I would opt for the
>money!
> ( seriously, adequate staffing is a priority, but in order to attract staff,
>hospitals have to offer adequate pay and benefits, competetive with other
>hospitals in their area- so the two really go hand-in-hand).
see, now i said staffing bc NO money is worth the stress that low staffing
causes. they can keep their $3/hr bc if people burn out & quit, ... everyone
loses. again, just like any job that pays very well, there's some serious
stress involved. sometimes, that stress just isn't worth it.
>you make $60/hr every sat/sun night? that's pretty incredible.
not me. i can't do every weekend 11-7. but yes in the philly area, you can get
that!!
>Many states are petitioning their legislatures to pass safe
>staffing acts, and to get rid of mandatory overtime. These 2 things alone
>will
>make a huge difference in the ability of nurses to take good care of their
>patients, and make it easier to attract new nurses. To ignore the problems
>because you "love nursing" will not make them go away.
>
and those nurse lobbyists started out as staff nurses!
>As Ruby said, she doesn't know anyone who makes that much, and she has worked
>on both coasts
she also said she hasn't worked in the east in 20 years! you do remember that
in 1980 nurses barely made $9/hr! linn, the ny metro area pays even better!!!
>. But I hope that nurses who are
>plagued with poor staffing, not enough equipment, mandatory overtime, and
>poor
>pay scales do complain and work to improve the working conditions where they
>are. To accept those kind of working conditions, and believe me they DO
>exist,
>is to put their patients in jeopardy, and I like to think that bottom line we
>all became nurses because we care a great deal about people and want to do
>our
>best to get them well.
>Linn
they should quit and leave. let the hospitals realize how important we are.
some do get it. look at what physicians are doing, they're walking out bc of
malpractice costs! on 2.3.03 here in nj there will be NO doctors working except
for emergencies!!!! none! they are having a statewide walkout! nurses need to
pull together like that, and they never do. they stay in jobs that are
miserable and complain. i have left many a facility that stuff like that was
mainstay. i said to myself...freag this place, even with bills to pay. i found
a place where i liked, as did you. why shouldn't more nurses do that. WE create
magnet hospitals when we do this! we create our own destiny!
Linn
<< see, now i said staffing bc NO money is worth the stress that low staffing
causes. they can keep their $3/hr bc if people burn out & quit, ... everyone
loses. again >>
We are in agreement here- read what I said: "Staffing is a priority".
Realistically, you are not going to be able to hire staff if you don't offer
them a decent salary. If the hospital across town is offering $5-10/hr more
than you, where do you think all the nurses will be applying?
<< not me. i can't do every weekend 11-7. but yes in the philly area, you can
get
that!!
>>
I'd be very interested to know what hospital in Philly is paying $60/hr for
weekend night shifts.
<< and those nurse lobbyists started out as staff nurses!
>>
It's not just nurse lobbyists. It's RN's and their families, friends,
neighbors, and patients. It's people signing petitions. It's nurses educating
the public. It's organizing a huge crowd and the press to be there when you
present your thousands of petitions to the state house.
<< they should quit and leave
nurses need to
pull together like that, and they never do. they stay in jobs that are
miserable and complain. i have left many a facility that stuff like that was
mainstay. i said to myself...freag this place, even with bills to pay. i found
a place where i liked, as did you. why shouldn't more nurses do that. WE create
magnet hospitals when we do this! we create our own destiny! >>
Ok, let me get this straight. Nurses shouldn't complain about bad staffing and
problems in the profession, but they should walk out and leave. That may help
the nurse, but it is just putting a band aid on the problem. Who is going to
take care of all the patients in those facilities? Where will they go? Where
will all the nurses you've just enticed into the profession with your rosy
outlook and your promises of $60/hr going to work? This is a major problem, and
needs to be adressed from the inside out. Instead of leaving, or in some cases
in addition to leaving, nurses need to speak out about why the conditions are
unsafe and come up with workable solutions, even if they have to go to the
press , the state govt, OSHA, and the NLRB to do so. Every patient in every
hospital deserves to have a qualified nurse who is not overworked and underpaid
taking care of them. It's true we create our own destiny, but I think we owe it
to our patients to ensure that they survive their hospital stay in order to
fulfill their own destinys as well!
Linn
Linn
From: dish...@aol.comNOSPAM >>
<< >From: luvlylinn
> HUH? What Ruby said was: "I've quit staff jobs...because I was
>getting cancelled once a week or more."
in the other post...'nsg profession.'
>>
I don't recall her other post on this- can you pull up what she said?
Linn
Ruby Vee
Linn wrote:
> << Subject: Re: i'll admit it....
> From: dish...@aol.comNOSPAM >>
>
> << see, now i said staffing bc NO money is worth the stress that low staffing
> causes. they can keep their $3/hr bc if people burn out & quit, ... everyone
> loses. again >>
>
> We are in agreement here- read what I said: "Staffing is a priority".
> Realistically, you are not going to be able to hire staff if you don't offer
> them a decent salary. If the hospital across town is offering $5-10/hr more
> than you, where do you think all the nurses will be applying?
Seems like staffing and pay (where there are qualified nurses) go hand in hand. If
you cannot attract the qualified nurses with pay, staffing will suck. However, if
there aren't qualified nurses enough in your area AND you can't pay them enough to
entice them to move there, you can't improve staffing so keep your staff with the
bucks? Boiled down, it seems like that's what you guys are saying, and it makes
sense.
> It's not just nurse lobbyists. It's RN's and their families, friends,
> neighbors, and patients. It's people signing petitions. It's nurses educating
> the public. It's organizing a huge crowd and the press to be there when you
> present your thousands of petitions to the state house.
And it's the image of nursing and nurses in general that has to improve in order to
attract more people to the profession. Look at all the hospital shows on TV . . .
Chicago Hope and St. Elsewhere are gone, but look at ER. Of the main characters,
how many of them are nurses? (And of the nurses, how many of them are married or
otherwise in healthy relationships with someone other than one of the main
doctors? We don't know, do we? Because the shows revolve around doctors.) Maybe
what we need is a show like ER to focus on nurses and the contributions they make.
Doctors are around such a tiny percentage of each patient's hospital stay -- it's
the nurses who really make or break it.
> << they should quit and leave
> nurses need to
> pull together like that, and they never do. they stay in jobs that are
> miserable and complain.
You're right, Dish. Nurses do need to pull together. Perhaps stronger unions are
a possible answer. With a strong union, we'd have some bargaining power, and the
ability to make some needed changes.
> i have left many a facility that stuff like that was
> mainstay. i said to myself...freag this place, even with bills to pay. i found
> a place where i liked, as did you. why shouldn't more nurses do that.
In your area, Dish, that's a possibility. For many, many nurses it is not.
Friends of ours moved to Montana because the hospital there was offering $5000
relocation bonus to attract staff. Like us, they were both nurses and it sounded
like a lot of money, especially to HIM (who was from Montana and wanted to move
back anyway) and HER (who would have moved anywhere that was away from her
mother). They signed 1 year contracts and bought a 4000 sq. foot house. Life was
good. Until about the second month on the job when they realized how much staffing
sucked, how bored they were, and how much SHE hated Montana. But they're stuck.
They can't sell the house, can't afford to move without selling it, and the next
nearest job is nearly 300 miles away! There are thousands of people stuck in that,
or similar ways.
> Dish said: WE create
> magnet hospitals when we do this! we create our own destiny! >>
>
> Linn said: Ok, let me get this straight. Nurses shouldn't complain about bad
> staffing and
> problems in the profession, but they should walk out and leave. That may help
> the nurse, but it is just putting a band aid on the problem. Who is going to
> take care of all the patients in those facilities?
Once again, it seems like a strong union is at least the start of an answer or a
partial answer here. Bargaining power. I've seen strong unions make good working
conditions for everyone -- and I once saw a strong union break a hospital. Or
perhaps the hospital broke itself rather than capitulate to a bunch of "silly women
running around with picket signs."
> Linn said:
> Instead of leaving, or in some cases
> in addition to leaving, nurses need to speak out about why the conditions are
> unsafe and come up with workable solutions, even if they have to go to the
> press , the state govt, OSHA, and the NLRB to do so. Every patient in every
> hospital deserves to have a qualified nurse who is not overworked and underpaid
> taking care of them. It's true we create our own destiny, but I think we owe it
> to our patients to ensure that they survive their hospital stay in order to
> fulfill their own destinys as well!
Well said!
Ruby Vee
Ruby Vee
Linn wrote:
It was a LONG one! Sorry to get so wordy!
In this climate of shortage, getting canceled probably is not all that
much of a worry, if you stay flexible about where you work and which days
you work. Monday may be overstaffed, but Friday is WAYYY short. No
surgeries on Monday because it's a bank holiday so the SICU won't need
you, but bank holidays never stopped anyone from shoveling snow after a
large meal, so the CCU might. Some of the per diems I know are this
flexible. Others want to work ONLY in CCU and ONLY Tuesdays and
Thursdays. Getting canceled is much more of a worry then. (I can't help
but think that those nurses have another way of making the mortgage
payment -- like a husband with a good job.)
In the smaller towns and small town hospitals, though, getting canceled
is more of a problem. If the census isn't there, you don't work.
When I was getting canceled frequently, I worked in a large hospital in a
small city that was involved in a "Cath Lab War" with the hospital six
blocks away. We'd get sent home if the cardiologists in town could be
persuaded to use their cath lab instead of ours for awhile. I'm assuming
that they got sent home when our cath lab was ahead. This was 12 years
ago, and I've heard that they've resolved those problems by combining
airlift teams and taking turns.
And I solved my problem by moving to a bigger city. While I still get
canceled from time to time, it's my choice whether to take the time off
or come in and sit around doing nothing or float. This hospital has a
policy that they can't FORCE time off.
Ruby Vee
Ruby Vee
Dish1991 wrote:
> >From: Ruby Vee
>
> >I went back to school (while working full time) and got an MBA. No tuition
> >reimbursement --
>
> would there have been if you were working on your msn??
There would have been some, but not much and impressively intricate hoops to jump
through to get it. Where I work now, I know several nurses who are working on MSNs
and getting reimbursed for most of their tuition.
> you know i'd have a few choice words for that bitch ;)
And then what? She refuses to work with you anymore because you were "mean" to
her. And then you get someone just like her to replace her.
> but you know, don't you think a lot of other workers in life have the same
> dilemmas? i don't think things like this are exclusive to nsg.
Exactly. In fact, I know folks who have left other careers and come into nursing
because of similar dilemmas. My cousin, for example -- just started nursing school
at the age of 47. He and his wife own a nursery (plants, not children) and with
the economy slipping it won't support both of them anymore. Plus no benefits!
> why did he go to the cath lab? for no w/e &
> holidays?? again, another option along with endoscopy & same day surgery etc!
Hubby went to the cath lab because he was burned out in the ICU. It happens. The
no weekends/holidays thing is a minus, not a plus for us. But you're right --
those options exist in nursing. Clinics, doctor's offices, etc. There are options
for M-F jobs. They usually don't pay as much as inpatient jobs unless you transfer
from an inpatient job in your institution.
> yep! you know, you could make some killer money in outpatient hemo on the side
> ;)
Not in our area. Here, they want to pay me for my 2 years of dialysis experience,
not for my 25 years of nursing experience. I can make more money doing OT in one
of the ICUs in my hospital. But I have the option of being OC for dialysis only --
which is cool. I just do the dialysis and call the patient's nurse when he's
incontinent. Usually, that's easy overtime.
> 1when i was younger a lot of my friends did the traveling thing. 2 went to
> hawaii for 3 months!
We're seeing older travelers now, too. People who have already raised their
families, the kids have left the nest and now they want to see the country. One of
my very good friends is traveling with her husband and two school aged kids. He's
got Parkinson's and is on full disability now, and they wanted to travel while he
was still able. He home schools the kids while she's at work.
> thanks for sharing ruby, really. you rarely talk about work, which makes me
> think you're pretty content!
Mostly. Like I said, we have a nice life.
Ruby Vee
Barbara Sherrill
used was one of the ones that flooded in the Medical Center. My hubby had a
CHF attack a few weeks later, nearly died that night. We had to go to the
neighborhood hospital. Could not get transfered to ours because there was no
beds. Due to the flooding.
I would be having complete fits in small towns if they didn't have staffing
for the CCU at all times.
Barb
Ruby Vee
Linn wrote:
> Me too! I was especially happy to be able to take of 3 years after each one of
> my children was born, w/o losing seniority.
WOW! Is that ever a nice benefit. You were lucky!
> While working in ICU I oriented in GI and did occasional perdiem there- when a
> position opened up there, I was first in line for it as I was already working
> there- but I realized that even though the hours were great, I would get pretty
> bored if that is all I was doing, so I stayed in ICU, and haven't regretted it
> one bit!
Sounds like you're just a bit of an adrenaline junkie yourself. Seriously, though,
I'd be bored, too if all I did all day was endoscopies or sigmoids! Yuck! (Or any
one thing!)
> Job security is important!! As hard as it is to believe, in this era of
> shortages, some hospitals still lay off nurses as the first step in fixing
> their broken budgets! ( meanwhile, the ceo gives himself a great big bonus for
> cutting the budget! I kid you not!) It only takes a few months of having to go
> on diversion and having increased "patient incidents" for the facility to
> realize that in order to take good care of patients, they need to have lots of
> good nurses!! DOH!!! Then they go scrambling to hire nurses, and often end up
> having to hire travelers or agency nurses at costs way above what they were
> paying the nurses they laid off!
Yes, I've seen that happen to a couple of hospitals. One of them is a chain, and
ended up having to close one facility because nurses didn't trust them enough to go
back to work for them! Served them right!
> You weren't long winded at all!! Enjoyed reading about your experiences!
Thanks!!
Ruby Vee
Linn
Date: Sun, Jan 19, 2003 4:01 PM
Message-id: <3E2B04DA...@netscape.net>
Linn wrote:
Ruby Vee
Thanks, I never saw that post- still seems like you are saying that being
cancelled can be a problem, depending on where you work.
Linn
chica...@nowhere.com
>
> see, i am just a positive person. i L O V E nursing! there's something so cool
> about getting your swan all set up and getting the outputs and explaining it
> all to the family. there's something cool about rolling over you patient to see
> that there's no breakdown bc you care about them not getting any. there's
> something cool about bugging the resident to come see your patient bc they're
> not sating well and you want them to be re tubed and being right on the ball.
> there's something so cool about getting the ecg in the er and mixing the tpa
> before being told to.
>
> but my heart's in nursing.
Next time they drag me to a hospital, can I call you? Or could you
send an equally dedicated nurse friend, if not? ;-)
bj
Ruby Vee
Linn wrote:
> Thanks, I never saw that post- still seems like you are saying that being
> cancelled can be a problem, depending on where you work.
Yup. That would be the short version.
Ruby Vee
VoxofaFox
see, i am just a positive person. i L O V E nursing! there's something so cool
about getting your swan all set up and getting the outputs and explaining it
all to the family. there's something cool about rolling over you patient to see
that there's no breakdown bc you care about them not getting any. there's
something cool about bugging the resident to come see your patient bc they're
not sating well and you want them to be re tubed and being right on the ball.
there's something so cool about getting the ecg in the er and mixing the tpa
before being told to.
i do NOT have my head in the sand.
but my heart's in nursing.>>
Dish, this is so nice to read. The people that helped me in Oregon were like
you. I had this one lady...her name was Lauren....it was the second day after
the night of my surgery. I had been on morphine for two days and felt like I
was in a black hole. I told her I didn't want anymore no matter how much it
hurt...just begged her to let me clean up and I promised her I'd be fine. I
had tubes in every orifice and a few extra they created. I was hooked up to
like six medications. I have no idea how she did it, but somehow, with the aid
of many towels and a few wash clothes, she not only helped me clean up but got
a fresh sheet on the bed. I was dizzy and nauseous but when she was finished
with me, I felt like a million bucks. No utzy spa ever felt better. She was
my hero and I'll never forget her.
I also won't forget the nurse who attended to me the night I got to the
hospital. His name was Bill...a big, burley guy with a full beard. However he
didn't return until four days later for his next shift. He was happy to see me
doing so well by that time. He told me that the day after my surgery he went
elk hunting and that as soon as his cell phone got within range, he phoned the
hospital to see how I was because he was so worried about me. He was another
hero...especially when he pulled that tube out of my side SOMEWHAT painlessly.
He told me what to do, what not to do, how to breathe....and the dreaded tube
was extracted.
You guys are really great.
Applaudingly,
Vox
Mary McCool
I'll admit that I haven't read this entire nursing thread,
but I am watching the Golden Globes preshow on E! and Bonnie
Hunt just said that she was a nurse before she got into show
business. That's an interesting jump!
Mary
Linn
<< I am watching the Golden Globes preshow on E! and Bonnie
Hunt just said that she was a nurse before she got into show
business. That's an interesting jump!
Mary
>>
Naomi Judd is a nurse, too. In fact , that 's how she contracted hepatitis. :
(
Linn
Eileen G. Downey
Dish1991 wrote:
> >From: "Laura M. Young"
>
> >Would you believe I still have the scorebook I got back from my ACT which I
> >took
> >during the 67-68 school year?? My 4 subject scores ranged from 25 in
> >English
> >to a 35 in Math with a Composite score of 30. They provided percentile rank
> >equivalents. Both the 35 and the composite score ranked in the 99th
> >percentile. I'll bet you that it takes a lot higher score today to get a 99
> >%ile rank.
>
> i never took this act test.
>
> e or nancy, do we have this in nj?
The only thing I remember from my youth is that darned CAT (California
Achievement Test). Seemed like endless days of coloring in those damned circles!
e.
--
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places,
if you look at it right.
3
Linn
From: dish...@aol.comNOSPAM (Dish1991) >>
<<
i never took this act test.
>>
I think it's pretty safe to say that Lucky never took the ACT test either!!
Linn
Dish1991
>So you are saying that your hospital pays $60/hr if you work 32 hrs a week
>per
>diem? Where do I sign up?
the 1.27.03 nsg spectrum (philly) has adds on pages 17 & 23 that will show you
these going rates. many other hospitals are even more competitive, but don't
put the actual rates in print. maybe you can get a copy at the library??
i'd fax it to you, but my fax is broken.