AIF survey
Johnny Freebase
general questions for players of AIF games. Just a little background:
I worked almost entirely in TADS prior to this, I build my own
libraries from scratch, and I work in almost complete silence until
I'm finished.
Anyhoo, my question is a simple one: what do you, my audience, want
to see in AIF? Plotwise, settingwise, characterwise, whatever. Just
go ahead and sound off. Respond to the newsgroup... I check my e-mail
less than once a month, so the box gets pretty full.
-Johnny Freebase
Orgun
I'd like to see a facinating story/plot. Maybe a mystery.
Altought sex etc is tied to the plot it's not that needed,
however the AIF elements (be it sex or other weird stuff like guns etc)
if messed with should change and speed up (or send the plot on alternate routes).
--
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Christopher Cole
(Johnny Freebase) wrote:
>Anyhoo, my question is a simple one: what do you, my audience, want
>to see in AIF? Plotwise, settingwise, characterwise, whatever. Just
>go ahead and sound off. Respond to the newsgroup... I check my e-mail
>less than once a month, so the box gets pretty full.
Well, this is certainly a question that I cannot answer in 50 words or
less, so I'll just have to ramble on until I've touched on everything.
Of course, this is me 'the player' talking now as opposed to me 'the
writer' because they really are very different.
Plot-wise:
I've stated before that I enjoy mindless AIF the most. I also pretty
much only enjoy highly sexual AIF, as opposed to AIF that's light on
the sex but contains violence or fetishism or whatever (for this
reason I didn't really enjoy "Depravity Bites" (for example) - a well
constructed game, just not my taste). Voyeurism is good as is any
other twists on typical mindless sex. While I like the mindlessness,
I'd still like there to be a basic plot structure in place so I know
why I'm there and how I fit into the story. I also enjoy games that
employ a true 'Me' more than games that have a set PC.
Setting-wise:
Really any setting works for me. :) There are certain ones I enjoy
more than others, but it's really the quality of the writing that's
more important. I like 'modern-day-in-the-house-type-settings' the
most, and probably sword & sorcery the least, but I'd always play a
well-written sword & sorcery game before a poorly written
'modern-day-in-the-house' game. I think the plot should also reflect
the setting and vice versa.
I'd like to see more high-school/college games.
There are a few TV shows I'd like to see made into games: "Birds of
Prey", "Firefly" (may she rest in peace), "Charmed" (don't really
watch it, but yowsa!), and "Doctor Who" (I'd love to play someone
else's game). I'd prefer these games to use a personal 'Me' as opposed
to a character from the show.
Character-wise:
Diversity is good. I like games that don't allow me to do absolutely
everything with every character. I like the NPCs to have varied sexual
taste and appetites (ie: some are into anal sex, some don't like to
have their tits fucked, some don't screw at all, etc, etc). I like
healthy descriptions of characters, including body parts (when clothed
and not). I like large, natural breasts :) and 'realistic' curvy women
(like Lynn in "Encounter 3").
Penis-wise:
Games should always describe the PCs dick (if a male PC). And I don't
want to ever play another game where the PCs cock is 10" long!
Other Stuff:
The main thing is that the game is well-written with good, lengthy
descriptions and atmosphere (and sex of course).
Christopher Cole
cjco...@hotmail.com
http://www.geocities.com/cjcole144/cjcole.htm
Normy17
personalities. Different likes and dislikes. Free love is okay, but I am
getting tired of, "Find object, give object to girl, fuck girl." Give me some
puzzles. Give me something that turns on my brain.
Robb Sherwin games are a good example. Only his programming capabilities are
lacking.
Softiron
TheCycoONE
"Johnny Freebase" <j_fre...@sillymotherfucker.com> wrote in message
news:7ca6248f.0212...@posting.google.com...
> I'm contemplating embarking on creating some AIF, and I had some
> general questions for players of AIF games. Just a little background:
> I worked almost entirely in TADS prior to this, I build my own
> libraries from scratch, and I work in almost complete silence until
> I'm finished.
>
> Anyhoo, my question is a simple one: what do you, my audience, want
> to see in AIF?
>Plotwise,
AIF plot seems to come in trends, and I think pulp fiction has outlived its
time. Mystery was mentioned, and that'd be pretty good. It's been decades
since an AIF horror was released...
> settingwise,
Really depends on the plot doesn't it? As long as it has charcter, so often
the setting has been secondary to anything else in AIF. Make it vivid...
and dark, I'd like to see a truely dark AIF world. Have you ever read
Graham Nelson's "The Craft of Adventure?" He was a bright man, I STRONGLY
recommend it.
characterwise,
Since I have a dark gothic horror mystery in my mind, I think we need the
typical characters... innocent virgin girl in white, evil suductress, tolken
bondage queen for people who happen to be into that sort of thing, having
too many characters usually takes away from any one.
>whatever.
I think we have something fairly well crafted... gothic horror mystery with
some sex thrown in. May I make note... a lot have authors have been trying
'optional' sex... I think that sex is extreamly significant to a story line,
and thefore unless you're going to work on a multiliniar game (which would
be fantastic if you did, but a lot of work, and almost never crafted
successfully), you should make any sex, or at least any sex with significant
characters, mandatory to the story.... wow I have a game in my head... I
have NO time or else I'd write it now. <smile>
> -Johnny Freebase
Tim Cowher
I think I prefer well written sex sceens as in Ideal High school or GNA
instead of the mechanical sex in moist or BDO.
Pretty much any setting would probably be good, I haven't found any setting
that I prefer over others however it might be interesting to see a game set
in an anime universe, they always seem to have some of the most interesting
character interactions, as well as cool costumes and effects :).
Plotwise, having something there for the player to strive for, weather its
to get the "best" girl, or solve a crime, or get home, is necessary but it
doesn't have to really be a story, see GNA or ideal high school.
Sex sceens as mandatory or extras, or a mix, are fine, mix or all extras
might be a little better because you can then add a varity of fetishes for
instance and people need only experience the ones they like.
For number of girls, the fewer the girls the more you should be able to do
with them for the sex side, you know using props and more specific things
such as in "one girl" or the night with series of games, lots of locations
etc.. where if you have a lot of girls you can be more sparing with the
sceens. Basicly add variaty through either numbers or acts. Also the girls
should be diffrent, except in cases of delibrate sameness such as twins or
sisters.
Well interesting puzzles to get the girls might be nice, but really just
about everything boils down to get hints, find object, present object, get
reward(girl) and that really doesn't bother me. BDO was good in this that
you learned about the girls from other characters, not the girls themselves,
very little of the I'm missing my diamond bracelet, oh where can it be
dialog.
tcowher
Rap
thread of the same name. That wasn't your plan, was it? Anywho...
j_fre...@sillymotherfucker.com (Johnny Freebase) wrote in message news:<7ca6248f.0212...@posting.google.com>...
> I'm contemplating embarking on creating some AIF, and I had some
> general questions for players of AIF games.
Woo-hoo! Always good to get some fresh blood.
> Just a little background:
> I worked almost entirely in TADS prior to this, I build my own
> libraries from scratch, and I work in almost complete silence until
> I'm finished.
Also good to have experienced writers. And a number of us are partial
to TADS, at least compared to ADRIFT.
I wouldn't be me unless I mentioned that if you modify someone else's
library (such as chick.t, which uses chatter, or sex.t, or whatever),
then you can spend more time working on plot, characters, sex scene
description, etc. But if you've been doing this for a while, you may
be more set in your ideas.
>
> Anyhoo, my question is a simple one: what do you, my audience, want
> to see in AIF? Plotwise, settingwise, characterwise, whatever. Just
> go ahead and sound off.
You asked for it!
I also wouldn't be me unless I threw in a plug for WAIF, aka Writing
AIF, which can be found at various AIF sites in the Resources section.
It's basically an extremely verbose description of what I want in an
AIF game, disguised as a bunch of useful advice from a.g.x over the
years. It's a couple years old, but I think the plot/character/sex
ideas are still pretty relevant.
In case you don't have the energy to read it all, I'll sum up in my
usual overly verbose manner. I like games that have lots of sex in
them. I like people to enjoy the sex. I like lots of kinds of sex,
although -- like NewKid --
I seem to be pretty partial to voyeurism in lots of forms (as long as
it doesn't veer towards stalking), which AIF is uniquely suited for
since it's totally mental. (Btw, that's a reason I don't want gifs in
my games, even if they're great fakes, but that's another thread.) And
also like NewKid, I'm pretty vanilla, although I know lots of other
people aren't.
In addition to all that sex, I like games that have some
interesting, fun puzzles. Preferably involving sex. I like games with
interesting and well-developed (ha ha) characters. Preferably
including lots who will have sex with the PC or other NPCs. And
interesting, at least somewhat developed plot (preferably... well, you
know the drill). But most importantly, I would like the plot, the
characters, the puzzles, and pretty much everything else, to be done
with some care. I complain about spelling and grammar, but they're
really a symptom for a lack of attention to detail that usually leads
to threadbare plots with one-dimensional NPCs and boilerplate sex
scenes. I have no problem with following lots of porn cliches, but I
like them to have at least a breath of freshness or thought put into
them.
Sadly, it's a lot harder to write games like that, and many of them
(including the one I was working on) never get finished. :(
Unlike Orgun, btw, I actually prefer games where the sex *is* integral
to the plot, or at least used in the plot somehow. IMO, AIF already
suffers from the problem that you work and work, playing regular IF,
then have an extended steamy sex scene (aka SSS) - which has almost no
effect on the game itself other than maybe the player's score - and
then go back to regular IF again. That problem is exacerbated in games
that're designed not to require sex (like Hendine's most recent) or
where the author didn't put in the time & effort to actually make the
sex fit into the story. BDO, which I'm in the middle of, does make sex
part of the plot (think storage room, or danielle), but to me the sex
scenes still felt a bit isolated from the game. (Less so than many
other games, though.) I hate to always quote the same game (but after
all, NK worship is my religion), but HI has plot actually happening
during sex.
Don't hesitate to ask questions on the list. Some of us are geeky
enough that we actually like to talk AIF theory (as People magazine
might say: what's Hot, and what's Not), although there's not been much
of that lately. More importantly, some of the best AIF authors are
still around, and will give you real advice, unlike that dispensed by
the large contingent AIF sofa quarterbacks. Also, I can guarantee
you'll have no shortage of beta-testing volunteers, although I can't
guarantee that they'll all be *useful* beta testers as opposed to
folks who just want to play a new game sooner :)
Best of luck!
-Rap
Joanna
too many puzzles, especially of a guess-the-verb character. Good NPC's,
which are amusing and seem to be alive, either because they are part of the
story, have something to say, or because they act. (rather than just stand
there like a slot-machine). And possibly a well-executed male NPC-every once
in while?
Joanna
The Despoiler
>Anyhoo, my question is a simple one: what do you, my audience, want
>to see in AIF? Plotwise, settingwise, characterwise, whatever. Just
>go ahead and sound off. Respond to the newsgroup... I check my e-mail
>less than once a month, so the box gets pretty full.
Whatever your theme, concentrate on playability. Keep your game fast
paced and interesting and always remember the ultimate player.
When I sit down to play a game, I want a joyride. All of my favourites
have felt like roller coasters: Even if I knew exactly where they were
gonna end, I was thrilled by the twists and turns along the way.
Give the player a clear goal up front and then rapid intervening
action.
It's all about the pace.
______
The Despoiler
Sir Gareth
> Anyhoo, my question is a simple one: what do you, my audience, want
> to see in AIF? Plotwise, settingwise, characterwise, whatever. Just
> go ahead and sound off.
Here's my two cents:
Character development: I like games best when each character has a
well-defined personality and motivation that actually has an effect on
game play. One-dimensional make me lose interest in a game pretty
quickly. Here are some character-development techniques that I've
seen used well:
-Conversation. A character should have responses to things the
player might reasonably ask about. I also love it when a character
reacts to what the player does (entering the room, taking off his
clothes, looking at her breasts, etc).
-Repeat interactions. Some of my favorite characters develop a
relationship with the player over time, starting with flirtation to
whet the player's appetite, and then ending up in a full-blown sex
scene later in the game. Laura from HI (the jock; I think her name's
Laura) is one of my all time favorites in this respect. Wynne, also
from HI, is another good example, as is Sally from Peril/Skies.
-Descriptions. I like detailed descriptions of characters, their
clothing, and their body parts. It's really frustrating to X TITS and
get "Nothing special" as the response.
-Character moods. This hasn't been done very often, but it adds a
lot when a character's mood can vary depending on what happens in the
game. For example, a sad character might need cheering up before the
game can progress. Newkid's A Night with Beverly is one of the few
games I can think of that implements mood.
-Character-initiated action. This also hasn't been done very often,
but I think it makes a character much more interesting and realistic
when he or she sometimes initiates things. I'm thinking mostly sex
here, but initiation of non-sexual activities (getting a drink,
walking around, turning on the TV, etc.) would also make a character
seem more real.
Sex scenes: I'm pretty much in the Rap/Newkid camp on this--fairly
vanilla sex, but with interest coming from the character's personality
and the situation. I also tend to like light-hearted, playful scenes
written with a sense of humor. Above all, a scene should consist of
more than just a description of the physical acts--use conversation,
mood, the senses (sight, touch, smell, etc) to make the scene detailed
and vivid.
Anyway, those are some thoughts. Good luck with your game.
-Gareth
Orgun
>to the plot, or at least used in the plot somehow. IMO, AIF already
>suffers from the problem that you work and work, playing regular IF,
>then have an extended steamy sex scene (aka SSS) - which has almost no
>effect on the game itself other than maybe the player's score - and
>then go back to regular IF again
Hehe! Maybe I didn't make it clear enough.
I too like games were sex is an integral part of the game/plot.
Townsville is like that. but you can opt to not do sex etc.
(you'll miss out on like 50% of the stuff tough)
Or one could do it all sex. (and miss out on about 50% on the non-sex stuff)
(it's all about alternate paths, the game can be played the way the player want it.
the amount of sex is determined by the players choices and playstyle)
In other words. the game I'd like to see is Townsville,
lol yeah prolly why I'm making Townsville too :P
If one want something done right, do it yourself hehe.
Question is if others will like the way Townsville ends up tough, we'll see.
But in general something like Townsville is what I like.
You can't have AIF without IF (it would be just A then :P
You can have IF without the A tough :)
I like a nice mix of both, with lots of freedom on how much of both I want.
(alt./branching plot paths etc)
To take an example (that isn't Townsville lol)
I'd say "jailbate on the interstate." (I-0) but with more sexual interaction like Newkid's HI
plus a nice story that sucks you in, in the process
would be a game I'd enjoy alot indeed.
PHOENIXZERO
for BoP, it will be RIP too since I was cancelled after only 13
Episodes.... On a side note, I know a stunt woman that worked on the
show, she worked on Buffy too. :D
Dark Angel could have made a good AIF game even though it too was
cancelled, which pisses me off, heh. Still waiting on someone taking
advantage of my Parallel Universes/Sliders suggestion and I still
think having sex with with a female version of yourself would be one
of the most f'ed up experinces in AIF, once again based off a Sliders
episode, heh
GoddoG (One of the many apparent AIF game maker casualties) was
working on a highly antipated game (At least to me, he) based off of
Unhapily Everafter. (Hmmmm Nikki Cox)
Nice to see that there's a WWE game in the works by you know who, heh.
I'm sure there isn't much pressure to have a story better than the
WWE's storylines since anyone could write better storylines/angles. :D
Hmm, this has a little relation to my first paragraph, but you'll just
have to figure that out on your own!
Christopher Cole
wrote:
>I'm surprised that no one has made a Smallville based AIF game yet. As
>for BoP, it will be RIP too since I was cancelled after only 13
>Episodes.... On a side note, I know a stunt woman that worked on the
>show, she worked on Buffy too. :D
>
BoP is cancelled? Say it aint so. It and Firefly were my two favorite
shows of all the new ones this year.
First Brimstone a couple of years ago, and now these two. They always
cancel the ones I like.
Guess that says something about my taste. Hell I liked Dweebs!
CC
Morphine
This is done in some Anime games, though the only US port has been
Maid's Tale.
On 16 Dec 2002 09:23:08 -0800, j_fre...@sillymotherfucker.com
(Johnny Freebase) wrote:
abo...@ns3.hcst.net
j_fre...@sillymotherfucker.com says...
First off...welcome! It is always great to see new writers. It is especially
admirable to see one who cares enough about it to see what his audience is
looking for.
Second..keep in mind that my own game ("Dexter Dixon..." available at an AIF
site near you) doesn't necessarily live up to my own expectations regarding a
good game. I tried, but I don't know if I made it (that's up to the players).
Plotwise:
I like a plot. Even though I enjoy a good sex romp now and again, I play each
game looking for something that will draw me in with a good story, or at least
interesting characters. Which leads me to...
Characterwise:
I like interesting characters. Something more than just a cookie-cutter
big-titted fuck doll whose only difference from all the other girls is
different hair color. Although that can be fun sometimes, I prefer some
substance. I also prefer characters who have a real motivation for having sex
with the PC. What I mean is that I don't care for the "You found my pen! Let's
have sex!" type of encounters. This is possibly the hardest part of a
programmer's task, because the nature of the beast is that it is geared
towards the "find an object and give it to some girl" type of scenario.
Settingwise:
I don't really have a preference regarding this. If it has good logic behind
it, almost any setting can work. What doesn't work is having a setting where
there are major items in the description that don't really exist. For example,
a description of a living room may say "Your living room contains the normal
stuff in a living room: couch, chairs, tv." But when you try to examine the
couch you get "Nothing special" or even worse, "I don't know the word
'couch'." This hurts the feeling of immersion. It is even worse when you
can't examine the TV, but you can "watch TV" or some other similar verb.
Other:
I like a described sex scene over a repetitive arousal system (ex.,GNA vs.
Moist), although either is fine if done well. There should be at least a
little build-up in sexual tension for some of the NPCs (ex., Laura in Ideal
High School or Rochelle in Encounter 1). I lean a little more towards male
POV, because I'm male and that's what I identify with. Finally, I couldn't
agree more with Rap. If you haven't done so already, at least skim over some
of the many fine articles available on the web regarding writing a good IF
game. I know there are many at www.xyzzynews.com and www.brasslantern.org, as
well as the works referred to by Rap in his own post.
Good luck!
A. Bomire
Rap
sirga...@yahoo.com (Sir Gareth) wrote in message news:<acea89d0.02121...@posting.google.com>...
> j_fre...@sillymotherfucker.com (Johnny Freebase) wrote in message news:<7ca6248f.0212...@posting.google.com>...
>
> > Anyhoo, my question is a simple one: what do you, my audience, want
> > to see in AIF? Plotwise, settingwise, characterwise, whatever. Just
> > go ahead and sound off.
>
> Character development:
Yes!
> -Conversation. A character should have responses to things the
> player might reasonably ask about. I also love it when a character
> reacts to what the player does (entering the room, taking off his
> clothes, looking at her breasts, etc).
[plug: chick.t makes this extremely easy.]
> -Repeat interactions. Some of my favorite characters develop a
> relationship with the player over time, starting with flirtation to
> whet the player's appetite, and then ending up in a full-blown sex
> scene later in the game. Laura from HI (the jock; I think her name's
> Laura) is one of my all time favorites in this respect.
Interesting that a couple people mentioned Laura, who's one of my
favorites too. (Wynne is another obvious one. I would argue that even
GNA's Amy counts, because you interact with her in two very different
ways & locations.) I'll note that I don't remember anything about the
scene where you actually get to have sex with her. But the buildup
scenes are much less cliche. Also, the fact that she moves around
throughout the game makes her much more real & less an object in a
room that the player interacts with. (For that, we could just use the
Moist statue :)
> -Descriptions. I like detailed descriptions of characters, their
> clothing, and their body parts. It's really frustrating to X TITS and
> get "Nothing special" as the response.
It's actually kinda annoying to x *anything* and get "Nothing
special". Plug: TADS at least makes it really easy to make
"decorations" which have descriptions but can't be interacted with in
any way. In fact, I think they even tell you, "don't bother messing
with this" to avoid red herring-itis.
> -Character moods. This hasn't been done very often, but it adds a
> lot when a character's mood can vary depending on what happens in the
> game. For example, a sad character might need cheering up before the
> game can progress. Newkid's A Night with Beverly is one of the few
> games I can think of that implements mood.
Frankly, I think mood in general is pretty shallow in AIF games.
Admittedly, we're usually looking for our NPCs to be aroused, but
there's lots of different ways to get them there (plus, as Gareth is
saying, lots of moods for them to be in before the arousal). It's not
that I'm against devoting time to writing good bodypart descs (and
unlike some, I'm not first and foremost concerned about mood), but
putting a few percent of that time into writing better mood stuff
could actually increase NPC sexiness *and* player immersion.
> -Character-initiated action. This also hasn't been done very often,
> but I think it makes a character much more interesting and realistic
> when he or she sometimes initiates things. I'm thinking mostly sex
> here, but initiation of non-sexual activities (getting a drink,
> walking around, turning on the TV, etc.) would also make a character
> seem more real.
I've definitely said this before. It's done almost never. As I said
above, Laura's moving around helps make her more real. But yes, having
her do stuff in the one room can be good too. Especially nice might be
to react to things that are happening elsewhere in the game (if the
SSS with this NPC isn't until later in the game).
> Sex scenes: I'm pretty much in the Rap/Newkid camp on this--fairly
> vanilla sex, but with interest coming from the character's personality
> and the situation. I also tend to like light-hearted, playful scenes
> written with a sense of humor. Above all, a scene should consist of
> more than just a description of the physical acts--use conversation,
> mood, the senses (sight, touch, smell, etc) to make the scene detailed
> and vivid.
plugh: WAIF has a number of ideas on this.
-Rap
ps In case we're actually going to talk theory, I'm going to start
another thread about keeping things interesting. It looks like another
good thread might be giving NPCs (and/or the PC) interesting
motivations for sex, other than, "You found my pen!" I believe we had
a brief thread about this at one point (or at least I remember posting
something about it). But as others have said here, interesting
motivations are one of the key problems in writing good AIF.
W|W.Klan
pisses me off when they are simply: TOUCH X -- "Yay! You touched X". I
think there should be hundreds of different stuff you can do to a NP
TheCycoONE
> pisses me off when they are simply: TOUCH X -- "Yay! You touched X". I
> think there should be hundreds of different stuff you can do to a NP
I think authors would be extreamly curious to know exactly what you mean by
that:
a) Do you want lots of different verbs "touch" "rub" "fondle" "massage", all
with different responses (A lot of writting for what most of us imagine
would be the improved effect on the game, but some poor author out there is
probably willing to try it)
b) Or do you want the computer to select from a list of random responses to
the command "touch" to make things a little more varied.
Both of these are very easilly accomplished... if an author doesn't know how
I and at least a dozen other people in the group would be more than happy to
show them.