The prepared text
John Rennie
prejudice as to source. It is even possible that Desmond might learn a
little - there goes that pig flying past my window again
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,812670,00.html
John Rennie
"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote in message
news:slrnaqqo4j.n6e.p...@lievre.voute.net...
> Le Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:33:48 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com>
a écrit :
> world' series on ITV was always extremely witty.
>
> Near the bottom of that article, is this link ...
>
> url:http://www.guardian.co.uk/indonesia/Story/0,2763,811368,00.html
>
> ... which states,
>
> 'There are no direct ties between Jemaah Islamiyah and Osama
> bin Laden's al-Qaida network ...'
>
> That won't stop Blair and Bush from using it as yet another pretext to
> invade Iraq ... not that Iraq has anything to do with al'Queda either,
> other than that it's ruled by 'filthy ragheads'.
>
> LDB's 'philosophy' (sic) is alive and well in the West ...
>
> --
> Desmond Coughlan
I don't think you learnt a thing from James' article. For that matter you
haven't studied PV's posts that closely either. If you had you would know
that he is against a war in Iraq although he hopes the sabre rattling will
produce effective inspections which I believe is also Richard's view. The
point about the article is that it clears away so much of the anti-American
nonsense that has been spouted here mainly by you and elsewhere mainly by
left wingers. I was reminded strongly of a very fierce argument I had in
Hyde Park with a Arab fundamentalist at least a quarter of a century ago.
He ran down the West, he ran down all our values. He said that Islam
would conquer the World, that the Jews would be pushed into the
Mediterranean. I managed to ask him if Islam were to regain Israel would
that be enough to let us, the West, alone. It wasn't. We had to be
conquered as our way of life was an insult to Islam. Then there was a
majority of Arabs in the audience who laughed their heads off at him and, to
them, his crazy ideas. I don't think they would dare do that today.
Richard J
I believe the primary intent of the US government is to get effective
weapons inspections in Iraq. I also believe that if this fails, the
saber rattling will become serious. Worry when the President stops
talking about what will happen to Iraq. That is when the war plan is
being finalized.
The
> point about the article is that it clears away so much of the anti-American
> nonsense that has been spouted here mainly by you and elsewhere mainly by
> left wingers. I was reminded strongly of a very fierce argument I had in
> Hyde Park with a Arab fundamentalist at least a quarter of a century ago.
> He ran down the West, he ran down all our values. He said that Islam
> would conquer the World, that the Jews would be pushed into the
> Mediterranean. I managed to ask him if Islam were to regain Israel would
> that be enough to let us, the West, alone. It wasn't. We had to be
> conquered as our way of life was an insult to Islam. Then there was a
> majority of Arabs in the audience who laughed their heads off at him and, to
> them, his crazy ideas. I don't think they would dare do that today.
I agree. Sooner or later, i am afraid the west will have to destroy
millions of Muslims in self defense. If Israel doesn't do that first.
Personally, I betting that Israel will destroy the whole region before
they give up.
Teflon
Earl Evleth
j.re...@ntlworld.com a écrit le 16/10/02 15:50 :
>
> "Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote in message
> news:slrnaqqo4j.n6e.p...@lievre.voute.net...
>> Le Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:33:48 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com>
> a écrit :
> I don't think you learnt a thing from James' article. For that matter you
> haven't studied PV's posts that closely either. If you had you would know
> that he is against a war in Iraq although he hopes the sabre rattling will
> produce effective inspections which I believe is also Richard's view.
Curiously, this kind of "bluff" and threats is possibly the closest behavior
between Bush and Hitler. The latter got a great deal in
this manner, like with Austria and Czechoslovakia. He took
the later over in two stages by walking in, no war.
I recently read in Deighton`s book (Blood Tears and Folly, Len Deighton,
1993) that Chamberlain also was ready to accept a German corridor
connecting Danzig with Germany. By this time Hitler was "ready" to
go with Poland having arranged things with the USSR. So appeasement
towards Hitler was the order of the day in England. After the defeat
of France there was a strong "pro-peace" sentiment in England, with
Lord Beaverbrook and Lloyd George willing to strike a deal with Hitler.
Churchill was barely appointed Prime Minister.
Next, of course, Saddam himself more fits the analogy with Hitler than
Bush, for whom the comparison pales. Saddam is a master of the diddle,
start-stop negociations, beating around the bush (or Bushes). Saddam
as a master at putting the Allies at each other throats using these
tactics.
NEXT
> The point about the article is that it clears away so much of the
> anti-American nonsense that has been spouted here mainly by
> you and elsewhere mainly by left wingers.
Curiously the European Wall Street Journal, that left wing rag, today
covered the issue of anti-Americanism in Europe and ironically put a great
deal of blame on ---- the Bush administration.
The article was on the political difficulties of José Maria Azar, the
conservative head of Government in Spain.
Azar was the fair haired darling of the WSJ's editorial page for years
since he was supposed to spear head "market friendly policies" to
Europe's stagnant economies. In fact he got a landslide victory in the
last elections, but things are tougher now, according to the Journal.
Things look rosy for the right for a while from an American standpoint.
The Journal remarks that the recovery of political strength of the
socialists is riding in some respects, as it did in Germany, on the
growing anti-Americanism in Europe. Azar remarks himself
that this growth of anti-Americanism is due in part to the "go it alone"
attitude on the part of the Bush administration in saying
"The US has to understand that politics
and building alliances are crucial to
exercising leadership"
And this is a conservative talking.
Indeed, the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld Government came to power
with message of going it alone, the "we don' t need you" approach
to foreign policy. The other irony is the message that the US
would "not play a nation building role", a position that the country
switched on when the going got tough and is now talking about occupying Iraq
for years and doing a "Japan" on that nation. For a group American
conservative ideologues who constantly ranted in the past against
"social engineering" they pretend they can now remake a society they
know nothing about.
The message of Bushian policy comes through loud and clear to
so many Europeans that I have yet to run into a pro-Bush advocate.
And it is costing those who associate with this arrogance votes and power.
Blair is hanging on. Chirac is taking his distance, being very difficult in
the Security Council right now, wishing to call the shots. Along with
Russia and China, the chance of getting a resolution through is getting
weaker by the day. So it is likely that the US "will have to go it alone"
in Iraq thus compromising any claim of "legality" in international law. Not
that these concepts mean anything to the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld Government.
They have told the UN "give us the resolution we want and if you don't we
will do it anyway."
True or not true?
Europeans seem to believe that they will be told by the Americans what
is going to be done. "You can come along if you wish but your presence
is not required, nor even desired".
True or not true?
Now what kind of response is that kind of attitude going to find in Europe?
To repeat, Azar said
"The US has to understand that politics
and building alliances are crucial to
exercising leadership"
Is anybody in Washington listening?
Earl
JIGSAW1695
From: "John Rennie" j.re...@ntlworld.com
Date: 10/16/2002 8:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <S0dr9.2807$v_5.2...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>
This one is for Mr D in particular and even PV if he can get over his
prejudice as to source. It is even possible that Desmond might learn a
little - there goes that pig flying past my window again
===============================
Was he whistling???
A Planet Visitor
"John Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:S0dr9.2807$v_5.2...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
every person, of every extraction, lost in that monstrous attack. One
can apparently no longer find joy in life, but must live a 'religious'
experience 24 hours a day. I would hope that Indonesia itself, would
now awaken to the many terrorist cells it has turned a blind-eye to in
that country. Clearly, Islam has never been more threatened, and
threatening, than it is at this moment, by radical elements intent on
returning civilization to the 13th Century, in Islamic domination rather
than the absurd Christian domination of that period.
Islam itself must forcefully address this problem, in partnership
with the secular government of Indonesia. Islamic extremism
is a world-wide problem.. and regardless of what some might believe,
it will not disappear with any resolution of the Israeli/Palestinian
conflict. There is a growing faction within Islam that believes every
non-Muslim, secular government is a threat to Islam itself, and they
wish only to create a world-wide revolution, using terrorism as a
weapon. A revolution quite matching the intensity of the Communist
belief in the necessity of a world-wide state of Communism from the
first half of the 20th Century. IMHO.
PV
A Planet Visitor
"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote in message
news:slrnaqqo4j.n6e.p...@lievre.voute.net...
> Le Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:33:48 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com> a écrit :
>
> world' series on ITV was always extremely witty.
>
> Near the bottom of that article, is this link ...
>
> url:http://www.guardian.co.uk/indonesia/Story/0,2763,811368,00.html
>
> ... which states,
>
> 'There are no direct ties between Jemaah Islamiyah and Osama
> bin Laden's al-Qaida network ...'
>
> That won't stop Blair and Bush from using it as yet another pretext to
> invade Iraq ... not that Iraq has anything to do with al'Queda either,
> other than that it's ruled by 'filthy ragheads'.
>
> LDB's 'philosophy' (sic) is alive and well in the West ...
>
As is your 'philosophy' (sic) of depending on lies. Of course, your
'paticular situation' requires that anyone who holds a balanced
view of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict must of necessity see the
Arab in the light that 'YOU' have tried to paint him.
It's called a 'survival instinct' and often referred to as 'Uncle Tom'
mentality.
PV
> --
> Desmond Coughlan |THE BITCH DROPPED THE BIKE ON MY TOE
> |SO I DUMPED HER SORRY ASS
> |AND MY 5 KIDS AS WELL
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:50:27 +0000
>
>Le Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:33:48 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com> a
>écrit :
>
>> This one is for Mr D in particular and even PV if he can get over his
>> prejudice as to source. It is even possible that Desmond might learn a
>> little - there goes that pig flying past my window again
>>
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,812670,00.html
>
>Interesting article. I've always liked Clive James. His 'around the
>world' series on ITV was always extremely witty.
>
>Near the bottom of that article, is this link ...
>
>url:http://www.guardian.co.uk/indonesia/Story/0,2763,811368,00.html
>
>... which states,
>
> 'There are no direct ties between Jemaah Islamiyah and Osama
> bin Laden's al-Qaida network ...'
>
>That won't stop Blair and Bush from using it as yet another pretext to
>invade Iraq ... not that Iraq has anything to do with al'Queda either,
>other than that it's ruled by 'filthy ragheads'.
>
>LDB's 'philosophy' (sic) is alive and well in the West ...
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>desmond @ zeouane.org |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
>Path:
>lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!fu-b
erlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:50:27 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 30
>Message-ID: <slrnaqqo4j.n6e.p...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <S0dr9.2807$v_5.2...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>
>Reply-To: pasdespa...@zeouane.org
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>User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.4 (FreeBSD)
>
The Dr. Dolly Coughlan archive exists because Desmond Coughlan lacks conviction
in his words. He won't allow his posts to be archived in Google. Please feel
free to use it to your advantage.
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
pasdespa...@zeouane.org wrote:
> Le Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:33:48 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com>
> a écrit :
>
> Interesting article. I've always liked Clive James. His 'around the
> world' series on ITV was always extremely witty.
I've never liked Clive James on the telly. His prose style from times
past was often pompous balls and not much more. The article that John
has linked to is interesting but is indicative of some considerable
confusion about issues in Mr James' mind.
> Near the bottom of that article, is this link ...
>
> url:http://www.guardian.co.uk/indonesia/Story/0,2763,811368,00.html
>
> ... which states,
>
> 'There are no direct ties between Jemaah Islamiyah and Osama
> bin Laden's al-Qaida network ...'
I'm not so sure that this is the case. They appear to share a set of
strategic aims so, while there may not be a connection, their ideas are
distressingly similar.
Mr Q. Z. D.
--
Drinker, systems administrator, wannabe writer, musician and all-round bastard.
"...Base 8 is just like base 10 really... ((o))
If you're missing two fingers." - Tom Lehrer ((O))
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:33:13 +0000
>
>Le Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:06:05 GMT, Mr Q. Z. Diablo
><jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> a écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>> The article that John
>> has linked to is interesting but is indicative of some considerable
>> confusion about issues in Mr James' mind.
>
>This is hardly surprising. Much as John as is a charming old git with
>a long repertoire of anecdotes (made all the more 'piquantes' as he lived
>through most of them), that could animate any dinner party for a whole
>weekend, part of that charm is a stunningly naïve view on the world in 2002.
>
>But we love him anyway, don't we ..?
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> 'There are no direct ties between Jemaah Islamiyah and Osama
>>> bin Laden's al-Qaida network ...'
>
>> I'm not so sure that this is the case. They appear to share a set of
>> strategic aims so, while there may not be a connection, their ideas are
>> distressingly similar.
>
>The IRA probably 'share[d] a set of strategic aims' with the Bader-Meinhof
>gang ... but we didn't see every IRA attack being attributed to them, did
>we ?
>
>The problem is that the 'stifling' of intelligent debate since '9/11' (sic)
>in the United States (and, as a consequence, in her 51st state) has the
>very real aim of legitimising as much as possible American military
>intervention, in the misguided and etymologically impossible 'war against
>terrorism'. The American arms industry _needs_ conflict to offset the
>drop in orders since the end of the Cold War. The American economy _needs_
>conflict to offset the recession that has only just started to bite. George
>W. Bush _needs_ conflict to make the American eloctorate forget that his
>main 'achievements' to date have been to sodomise the economy, and to kill
>thousands of innocent Arabs.
>
>Hugh joked a few days ago, that 'jaywalkers' (sic) would soon be known as
>the 'terrorists of the highways', but his joke had more than a grain of
>truth in it. Every illegal act from now on, will be termed 'terrorism',
>for in uttering the 'magic' word, governments have free rein to use
>overwhelming force to 'curb terrorism' (read 'to put down dissent'). It
>was a lesson that Ariel Sharon learned in the hours following '9/11' (sic).
>
>Those who question this brutality, are termed 'anti-American', or
>'unpatriotic', or 'pro-terrorist'. It is the simple-minded, parochial,
>'binary' way of thinking that one cannot be 'anti-terrorist', and 'anti-
>butcher-unarmed-civilans' at the same time.
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>desmond @ zeouane.org |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
>Path:
>lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!chi1
.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!proxad.net!peer1.news.newnet.co.uk!fu-be
rlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:33:13 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 55
>Message-ID: <slrnaqulm8.u1a.p...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <S0dr9.2807$v_5.2...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>
><slrnaqqo4j.n6e.p...@lievre.voute.net>
><jonathan-6309BE...@newsroom.utas.edu.au>
>Reply-To: pasdespa...@zeouane.org
>NNTP-Posting-Host: e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.fr (212.198.68.117)
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1034901374 23299258 212.198.68.117 (16 [91468])
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
pasdespa...@zeouane.org wrote:
> Le Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:06:05 GMT, Mr Q. Z. Diablo
> <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> > The article that John
> > has linked to is interesting but is indicative of some considerable
> > confusion about issues in Mr James' mind.
>
> This is hardly surprising. Much as John as is a charming old git with
> a long repertoire of anecdotes (made all the more 'piquantes' as he lived
> through most of them), that could animate any dinner party for a whole
> weekend, part of that charm is a stunningly naïve view on the world in
> 2002.
I was more thinking about the way that Mr James appears confused as to
what side of the fence he wishes to occupy. The article starts out with
a fairly round condemnation of many practices of the US government and
then finishes with some out-and-out sycophancy towards that same
institution.
> But we love him anyway, don't we ..?
Of course we do, even if he's not nearly as naïve as you think. It is
especially easy for a conspiracy theorist to label views as "naïve" if
they don't assume that the powers that be always have sinister motives.
I just don't buy that. I'm proudly anti-American. I've declared that
on a number of occasions. I disagree with the proposition of the USA
mounting military action agaings Iraq. I feel that the net effect of
the "invasion" of Afghanistan was to create even more outright hatred of
the US as well as an abject failure to improve the lot of the Afghani
people. I think that the "war on terror" has been horribly mishandled.
I feel that Rumsfeld and Cheney are aggressive, warmongering ideologues
who don't have the right to exercise such a strong hold over such a
powerful institution as the United States of America. I know that
George W. Bush Jr is an insufferable dolt.
What I _don't_ think is that the USA bombed those nightclubs in Bali or
that the attack on the WTC was committed by anyone other than al Qui'da.
I just don't embrace conspiracy theories when Occam's razor provides us
with a much simpler (and, hence, more likely) explanation. The world in
2002 is little different from the world in 1914. Things may move faster
but there is a similar set of tensions in existence. It's no longer a
clash of imperial powers - it's not even a clash between Christianity
and Islam. It's the opposing forces of moderates versus
fundamentalists, political, economic _and_ religious.
Those are the cards the way I see 'em, anyway.
> { snip }
>
> >> 'There are no direct ties between Jemaah Islamiyah and Osama
> >> bin Laden's al-Qaida network ...'
>
> > I'm not so sure that this is the case. They appear to share a set of
> > strategic aims so, while there may not be a connection, their ideas are
> > distressingly similar.
>
> The IRA probably 'share[d] a set of strategic aims' with the
> Bader-Meinhof
> gang ... but we didn't see every IRA attack being attributed to them, did
> we ?
The evidence is starting to come in. It's pretty clear now that the
bombings were perpetrated by JI.
> The problem is that the 'stifling' of intelligent debate since '9/11'
> (sic)
> in the United States (and, as a consequence, in her 51st state) has the
> very real aim of legitimising as much as possible American military
> intervention, in the misguided and etymologically impossible 'war against
> terrorism'. The American arms industry _needs_ conflict to offset the
> drop in orders since the end of the Cold War. The American economy
> _needs_
> conflict to offset the recession that has only just started to bite.
> George
> W. Bush _needs_ conflict to make the American eloctorate forget that his
> main 'achievements' to date have been to sodomise the economy, and to
> kill
> thousands of innocent Arabs.
GWB has no more caused the current situation than my own un-favourite,
Little Johnny Howard. The situation is fortuitous for the pair of them,
just as it is lucky for the recently sabre-rattling Tony Blair. Do I
think that GWB Jr is borderline "evil"? You bet. Do I think that he
has in any way hoped that the atrocities of the last 12 months or so
would happen? No fucking way. He is, like many politicians, an
opportunist who will stoop as low as required in order to ensure that he
holds on to power for as long as possible but stooping is something that
one does in order to avoid the aftermath of carnage - not to cause the
carnage itself.
> Hugh joked a few days ago, that 'jaywalkers' (sic) would soon be known as
> the 'terrorists of the highways', but his joke had more than a grain of
> truth in it. Every illegal act from now on, will be termed 'terrorism',
> for in uttering the 'magic' word, governments have free rein to use
> overwhelming force to 'curb terrorism' (read 'to put down dissent'). It
> was a lesson that Ariel Sharon learned in the hours following '9/11'
> (sic).
>
> Those who question this brutality, are termed 'anti-American', or
> 'unpatriotic', or 'pro-terrorist'. It is the simple-minded, parochial,
> 'binary' way of thinking that one cannot be 'anti-terrorist', and 'anti-
> butcher-unarmed-civilans' at the same time.
I couldn't agree more with these paragraphs. (Mostly) conservative
governments are making good use of public anxiety to increase their
powers in almost every respect imaginable. It concerns and distresses
me.
What's more, I'm saddened to note that the LCD in Australian society
generally agree with their mouthpieces - the talkback radio shock jocks.
Just three days ago, one Alan Jones (a mean-spirited, right-wing
ideologue if ever I heard one) advocated the arrest of people for
"un-Australian activity".
*sigh*
JIGSAW1695
Message-id: <slrnar0159.10pu....@lievre.voute.net>
Le Fri, 18 Oct 2002 01:36:23 GMT, Mr Q. Z. Diablo
<jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> a écrit :
{ snip }
> What I _don't_ think is that the USA bombed those nightclubs in Bali or
> that the attack on the WTC was committed by anyone other than al Qui'da.
Well to begin with, I didn't claim that the United States was in any way
linked with the attacks in Bali. What I find offensive and insulting to
our intelligence, is that Al'Queda were being accused of the attacks, almost
before the dust had settled on the scene. This was the case with the 'WTC'
attacks, too. Indeed, this was the case with the Oklahoma City bombing,
too, before the authorities realised that the guilty person was a white
Gulf war veteran. It's so easy to blame Al'Queda, as the Bush administration
can claim, 'See ? If we'd attacked Iraq, this would never have happened.'
The problem with the attacks on the World Trade 'Center' is that there is
no evidence that Al'Queda were behind them. No hard evidence, at any rate.
There is a lot of circumstantial evidence, but nothing that would stand up
in a fair trial in open court, and contrary to what certain posters here
would have you believe, there is _no_ independent, corroborated videocassette
in which any member of Al'Queda 'admits' to the attacks.
Insofar as the Bali attacks are concerned, I found this article very
interesting ...
url:http://argument.independent.co.uk/regular_columnists/adrian_hamilton/s
tory.jsp?story=343585
We do not know if Al'Queda were behind the attacks. If it was indeed
Muslim 'fanatics', then that no more means that Al'Queda are involved,
than saying that the Vatican was behind the Enniskillen bombing.
As for the attacks on the World Trade 'Center' (sic), the neo-Nazis in
the White House, would have been well advised to get their lies rehearsed
in advance. The problem is that since '9/11', the government has been
changing its story regularly. From the lie about the supposed 'threat' to
Air Force One, to the timeline of events whilst Bush was talking to the
children in the Florida school. If they had handled it better, there would
have been fewer people to ask, 'Why are you lying, if your hands are clean ?'
{ snip }
Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1
===============================
Thank God we have Dezi to set us right.
Come on Dezi, tell us who was behind 9-11, then.
JIGSAW1695
Message-id: <slrnar024t.10tn....@lievre.voute.net>
Le 18 Oct 2002 13:07:35 GMT, JIGSAW1695 <jigsa...@aol.com> a écrit :
{ snip }
> Thank God we have Dezi to set us right.
> Come on Dezi, tell us who was behind 9-11, then.
You really are an ignorant moron, Jigsaw. We attempt to discuss a serious
issue, and we have you, popping your pills, and tugging our sleeves, as
you pose utterly moronic questions.
Jesus, what a fucking spastic ...
Desmond Coughlan |CUNT1
===============================
Thank you for your comments. Now tell us who was behind 9-11. Or are you just
talking through your ass?
Waiting patiently,
Jigsaw
John Rennie
"JIGSAW1695" <jigsa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021018124206...@mb-fw.aol.com...
He's forgotten but I remember his rather hasty conclusion. Mossad and
perhaps Sudan.
JIGSAW1695
Date: 10/18/2002 12:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <UZWr9.3276$KO2....@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>
===============================
Thank you John. Bit I would like to hear from Dezi.
JIGSAW1695
Message-id: <slrnar0gct.122d....@lievre.voute.net>
Le Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:50:30 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com> a
écrit :
{ snip }
>> Thank you for your comments. Now tell us who was behind 9-11. Or are you
> just
>> talking through your ass?
> He's forgotten but I remember his rather hasty conclusion. Mossad and
> perhaps Sudan.
You don't 'remember' very well, then, John. The _only_ mentions of 'Sudan'
in my entire posting history (excepting posts prior to March 1999, as I
was using other ISPs), are as follows ...
des...@lievre.voute.net % grep -i "sudan" usenet/articles*
usenet/articles_12_02_2001_to_25_10_2001:> > globe; bombed Afghanistan, Sudan,
Yugoslavia and Iraq without troubling
usenet/articles_25_10_2001_to_07_03_2002:"'I can go from Indonesia to Algeria,
Kabul to Chechnya, Bosnia to Sudan, and Burma to Kashmir," he said. "This is
not a question of my survival. This is the question of the survival of jihad
(holy war). Wherever required, I will be there.'"
usenet/articles_to_12_02_2001:> We do know that China has the most, Saudi
Arabia, Sudan, Iraq, Iran,
usenet/articles_to_12_02_2001:> like China, Sudan, Sirra Leone, Iraq, Iran and
the USA take part in. how
usenet/articles_to_12_02_2001:Rwandai, Yemen, and Sudan, and a few others
whose names I don't have to
As you can see ... at no time did I mention the Sudan around the period of
'9/11' (sic).
--
Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1
===============================
Dezi, why didnt you use this window of opportunity to answer the original
queston?
Now tell us who you think was behind 9-11.
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:11:57 +0000
>
>Le 18 Oct 2002 13:07:35 GMT, JIGSAW1695 <jigsa...@aol.com> a écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>> Thank God we have Dezi to set us right.
>> Come on Dezi, tell us who was behind 9-11, then.
>
>You really are an ignorant moron, Jigsaw. We attempt to discuss a serious
>issue, and we have you, popping your pills, and tugging our sleeves, as
>you pose utterly moronic questions.
>
>Jesus, what a fucking spastic ...
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>desmond @ zeouane.org |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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ews.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!news.tele.dk!news
.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68
.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:11:57 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 17
>Message-ID: <slrnar024t.10tn....@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <slrnar0159.10pu....@lievre.voute.net>
><20021018090735...@mb-ca.aol.com>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:15:09 +0000
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>desmond @ zeouane.org |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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ws.tele.dk!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:15:09 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 29
>Message-ID: <slrnar0gct.122d....@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <slrnar024t.10tn....@lievre.voute.net>
><20021018124206...@mb-fw.aol.com>
><UZWr9.3276$KO2....@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:55:07 +0000
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>desmond @ zeouane.org |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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ews.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.icl.net!
newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.freenet.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e117.dh
cp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-fo
>r-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:55:07 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 46
>Message-ID: <slrnar0159.10pu....@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <S0dr9.2807$v_5.2...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>
><slrnaqqo4j.n6e.p...@lievre.voute.net>
><jonathan-6309BE...@newsroom.utas.edu.au>
><slrnaqulm8.u1a.p...@lievre.voute.net>
><jonathan-15D4B1...@newsroom.utas.edu.au>
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A Planet Visitor
> Le Fri, 18 Oct 2002 01:36:23 GMT, Mr Q. Z. Diablo <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> > that the attack on the WTC was committed by anyone other than al Qui'da.
>
> linked with the attacks in Bali. What I find offensive and insulting to
> our intelligence, is that Al'Queda were being accused of the attacks, almost
> before the dust had settled on the scene.
Actually, the Indonesian government identified Al-Qaida. The Indonesian
Defense Minister on 14 Oct -- See
http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2002/10/14/qaida_bali/
And yes, the dust had not yet settled on the dead when he did so.
> This was the case with the 'WTC'
> attacks, too.
Crap. There was clear evidence using manifests and even the voices
that were captured over cell-phones from the aircraft that did not
complete its terrorist attack, identifying from where the attack
had been coordinated.
> Indeed, this was the case with the Oklahoma City bombing,
> too, before the authorities realised that the guilty person was a white
> Gulf war veteran.
Actually, all the 'theorizing' was in the media. I do not believe even
one person with a connection to a radical Muslim terrorist organization
was ever arrested and charged with the crime prior to the arrest of
Timothy McVeigh. Perhaps, you know of one, and I'd be interested in
hearing of his name.
> It's so easy to blame Al'Queda, as the Bush administration
> can claim, 'See ? If we'd attacked Iraq, this would never have happened.'
>
> The problem with the attacks on the World Trade 'Center' is that there is
> no evidence that Al'Queda were behind them. No hard evidence, at any rate.
> There is a lot of circumstantial evidence, but nothing that would stand up
> in a fair trial in open court, and contrary to what certain posters here
> would have you believe, there is _no_ independent, corroborated videocassette
> in which any member of Al'Queda 'admits' to the attacks.
>
LOL. There is nothing that you would consider independent
corroborated evidence, desi... thus your 'argument' is moot. I am
quite certain that if we captured bin Laden alive, and he testified at
a trial, you would claim the U.S. was using a 'double' to fabricate
that guilt. You're the same as one of those who believe the 'moon
walk' was staged on a Hollywood set.
> Insofar as the Bali attacks are concerned, I found this article very
> interesting ...
>
> url:http://argument.independent.co.uk/regular_columnists/adrian_hamilton/story.jsp?story=343585
>
> We do not know if Al'Queda were behind the attacks. If it was indeed
> Muslim 'fanatics', then that no more means that Al'Queda are involved,
> than saying that the Vatican was behind the Enniskillen bombing.
'We' are not the primary authority investigating that terrorist attack. As
my reference shows, the Indonesian Defense Minister blamed Al-Quida
and its extremist allies back on Monday last. The very first working day
after the attack.
>
> As for the attacks on the World Trade 'Center' (sic), the neo-Nazis in
> the White House, would have been well advised to get their lies rehearsed
> in advance. The problem is that since '9/11',
Gee... and you didn't even put your 'insane' (sic) after it. But at least you
didn't refer to the '4000 Jews' who didn't show up for work on 9-11.
> { snip }
> --
> Rev Desmond Coughlan |Minister at Large in the Universal
|Right to Life Church of AADP
A Planet Visitor
> > just
> >> talking through your ass?
>
> > perhaps Sudan.
>
> in my entire posting history (excepting posts prior to March 1999, as I
> was using other ISPs), are as follows ...
>
> des...@lievre.voute.net % grep -i "sudan" usenet/articles*
> usenet/articles_12_02_2001_to_25_10_2001:> > globe; bombed Afghanistan, Sudan, Yugoslavia and Iraq without troubling
> usenet/articles_25_10_2001_to_07_03_2002:"'I can go from Indonesia to Algeria, Kabul to Chechnya, Bosnia to Sudan, and
Burma to Kashmir," he said. "This is not a question of my survival. This is the question of the survival of jihad (holy
war). Wherever required, I will be there.'"
> usenet/articles_to_12_02_2001:> We do know that China has the most, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iraq, Iran,
> usenet/articles_to_12_02_2001:> like China, Sudan, Sirra Leone, Iraq, Iran and the USA take part in. how
> usenet/articles_to_12_02_2001:Rwandai, Yemen, and Sudan, and a few others whose names I don't have to
>
> As you can see ... at no time did I mention the Sudan around the period of
> '9/11' (sic).
>
(perhaps allowing those 4000 Jewish workers to not report to work), and the Bush
Administration KNOW who did carry out the attack. Which by your words, again
rather demonstrates your lack of knowledge because if the Bush Administration
KNOWS who did it, and BLAMES bin Laden, then it is obvious that bin Laden did
it.
PV
> --
> Rev Desmond Coughlan |Most high Priest of the
|Order of the Universal
A Planet Visitor
> > Come on Dezi, tell us who was behind 9-11, then.
>
> issue, and we have you, popping your pills, and tugging our sleeves, as
> you pose utterly moronic questions.
>
instance it simply becomes one of your 'patented' rages against the U.S.
> Jesus, what a fucking spastic ...
>
Come on, desi.. jiggy called it just as it is. You know DAMN WELL
who was behind the 9-11 attack, but your huge ego and your pathological
hate for the U.S. simply keeps you from admitting that fact. You know
that a 'serious issue' to you is the 'upkeep of your motorcycle.'
PV
> --
>Rev Desmond Coughlan |Defrocked Minister of the Universal
JIGSAW1695
Date: 10/19/2002 12:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <I15s9.117274$S8.21...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
PV
===============================
LOL.... Dezi is by no means in intellect.
A Planet Visitor
> Le Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:55:30 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> >> As you can see ... at no time did I mention the Sudan around the period of
> >> '9/11' (sic).
>
> > Yeah... you 'blamed' Israel, or Pakistan. Of course you DID claim that Mossad
> > (perhaps allowing those 4000 Jewish workers to not report to work), and the Bush
> > Administration KNOW who did carry out the attack. Which by your words, again
> > rather demonstrates your lack of knowledge because if the Bush Administration
> > KNOWS who did it, and BLAMES bin Laden, then it is obvious that bin Laden did
> > it.
>
> confused as to how his AM radio, manages to work in the afternoon ...
>
GIMMICK # 3 -- desi lies. I am so glad to see again that he does so,
because so many regular readers KNOW those were his words. But
he has hidden behind removing archive from his posts, and it was before
Dolly began doing it for him. Which rather proves the works of Dolly can
be valuable. Desi's words -- as all regular readers will remember were --
"the truth is that Osamo bin-Laden had absolutely nothing to do with the
events of 11 September. In short, I think that Mr bin Laden, whilst he didn't
plan or carry out the attacks, knows who did. So does the Bush Administration.
So does Mossad. I'd put my money on either Israel, or Pakistan being
behind the attacks."
PV
> --
>Rev Desmond Coughlan |Eternal High Priest of the Universal
JIGSAW1695
Date: 10/19/2002 12:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <slrnar1nm7.31o.p...@lievre.voute.net>
Le 19 Oct 2002 04:26:01 GMT, JIGSAW1695 <jigsa...@aol.com> a écrit :
{ snip }
> LOL.... Dezi is by no means an intellect.
And in English ?
--
Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1
===============================
Correction made. Now answer the question you bloody little frog.
John Rennie
No it wasn't Sudan it was Pakistan. That makes all the difference doesn't
it? Now we really know who dunnit.
A Planet Visitor
>
>
Not too good at that, either. Seems like words that are unfamilar to
you, cause you to curl back in fear.
PV
> --
> Rev Desmond Coughlan |Great High Deacon of the Order
A Planet Visitor
> Le Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:55:30 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> >> '9/11' (sic).
>
> > Yeah... you 'blamed' Israel, or Pakistan. Of course you DID claim that Mossad
> > (perhaps allowing those 4000 Jewish workers to not report to work), and the Bush
> > Administration KNOW who did carry out the attack. Which by your words, again
> > rather demonstrates your lack of knowledge because if the Bush Administration
> > KNOWS who did it, and BLAMES bin Laden, then it is obvious that bin Laden did
> > it.
>
> confused as to how his AM radio, manages to work in the afternoon ...
>
PV
> --
> Rev Desmond Coughlan |High Illustrious Revered Priest
|of the Order of Universal Right
|to life Church of AADP
JIGSAW1695
Message-id: <slrnar2qdv.494.p...@lievre.voute.net>
Le 19 Oct 2002 06:24:19 GMT, JIGSAW1695 <jigsa...@aol.com> a écrit :
>>> LOL.... Dezi is by no means an intellect.
>> And in English ?
> Correction made. Now answer the question you bloody little frog.
*ribbit*
--
Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1
===============================
Once again Dezi refuses to answer the question.
Therefore, let me try a different appoach.
Dezi, we all know that you are a man of superior intellect and wisdom. We ask
you to use your tremendous powers of logic to to tell us who was responcible
for the 9-11 affair.
*Humbly Yours
Jigsaw
* Main Entry: [1]hum·ble
Pronunciation: 'h&m-b&l also chiefly Southern '&m-
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): hum·bler /-b(&-)l&r/; hum·blest /-b(&-)l&st/
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin humilis low, humble,
from humus earth; akin to Greek chthOn earth, chamai on the ground
Date: 13th century
1 : not proud or haughty : not arrogant or assertive
2 : reflecting, expressing, or offered in a spirit of deference or submission
<a humble apology>
3 a : ranking low in a hierarchy or scale : INSIGNIFICANT, UNPRETENTIOUS b :
not costly or luxurious <a humble contraption>
A Planet Visitor
> Le Sat, 19 Oct 2002 04:50:51 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> >
> > "the truth is that Osamo bin-Laden had absolutely nothing to do with the
> > events of 11 September. In short, I think that Mr bin Laden, whilst he didn't
> > plan or carry out the attacks, knows who did. So does the Bush Administration.
> > So does Mossad. I'd put my money on either Israel, or Pakistan being
> > behind the attacks."
>
>
>
url:http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&scoring=d&q=%22the+truth+is+that+Osamo+bin-Laden+had+absolut
ely+nothing%22+author%3ADesmond+author%3ACoughlan&btnG=Recherche+Google
>
> Spank, spank, spank ...
>
Ermmm...
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=hid28.46551%24WQ1.7657194%40news6-win.server.ntlworld.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
spank...spank..spank...
PV
> --
> Rt. Rev Desmond Coughlan |High Illustrious Revered Priest
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 14:18:39 +0000
>
>Le 19 Oct 2002 06:24:19 GMT, JIGSAW1695 <jigsa...@aol.com> a écrit :
>
>>>> LOL.... Dezi is by no means an intellect.
>
>>> And in English ?
>
>> Correction made. Now answer the question you bloody little frog.
>
>*ribbit*
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>desmond @ zeouane.org |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
>Path:
>lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cide
ra!news-x2.support.nl!feed.news.nacamar.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e117
.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 14:18:39 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 14
>Message-ID: <slrnar2qdv.494.p...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <slrnar1nm7.31o.p...@lievre.voute.net>
><20021019022419...@mb-fh.aol.com>
>Reply-To: pasdespa...@zeouane.org
>NNTP-Posting-Host: e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.fr (212.198.68.117)
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 16:43:17 +0000
>
>Le Sat, 19 Oct 2002 04:50:51 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>> Desi's words -- as all regular readers will remember were --
>>
>> "the truth is that Osamo bin-Laden had absolutely nothing to do with the
>> events of 11 September. In short, I think that Mr bin Laden, whilst he
>didn't
>> plan or carry out the attacks, knows who did. So does the Bush
>Administration.
>> So does Mossad. I'd put my money on either Israel, or Pakistan being
>> behind the attacks."
>
>Erm ...
>
>
>url:http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&scoring=d&q=%
22the+truth+is+that+Osamo+bin-Laden+had+absolutely+nothing%22+author%3ADes
mond+author%3ACoughlan&btnG=Recherche+Google
>
>Spank, spank, spank ...
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>desmond @ zeouane.org |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
>Path:
>lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!n
ews.maxwell.syr.edu!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR
!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 16:43:17 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 22
>Message-ID: <slrnar32t5.4n9.p...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <slrnar024t.10tn....@lievre.voute.net>
><20021018124206...@mb-fw.aol.com>
><UZWr9.3276$KO2....@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>
><slrnar0gct.122d....@lievre.voute.net>
><CQ3s9.117009$S8.21...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><slrnar1il5.72.p...@lievre.voute.net>
><Lw5s9.117719$S8.21...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
>Reply-To: pasdespa...@zeouane.org
>NNTP-Posting-Host: e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.fr (212.198.68.117)
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 15:41:30 +0000
>
>Le Sat, 19 Oct 2002 15:40:03 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> 'Gentle Reader' ... you must forgive LDB his ignorance. He is still
>>> confused as to how his AM radio, manages to work in the afternoon ...
>
>>
>http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=hid28.46551%24WQ1.7657194%40news6-wi
n.server.ntlworld.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
>
>What does a post by John Rennie have to do with me ?
>
>LOL ... it just _enrages_ you that you don't have access to my posts, doesn't
>it ..? ROTFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>desmond @ zeouane.org |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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erlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 15:41:30 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 18
>Message-ID: <slrnar2v9a.4n9.p...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <slrnar024t.10tn....@lievre.voute.net>
><20021018124206...@mb-fw.aol.com>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 04:25:43 +0000
>
>Le 19 Oct 2002 04:26:01 GMT, JIGSAW1695 <jigsa...@aol.com> a écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>> LOL.... Dezi is by no means in intellect.
>
>And in English ?
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>desmond @ zeouane.org |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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n.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 04:25:43 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 12
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><20021019002601...@mb-ft.aol.com>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 16:35:03 +0000
>
>Le Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:29:18 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>>> > What I _don't_ think is that the USA bombed those nightclubs in Bali or
>>> > that the attack on the WTC was committed by anyone other than al Qui'da.
>
>>> Well to begin with, I didn't claim that the United States was in any way
>>> linked with the attacks in Bali. What I find offensive and insulting to
>>> our intelligence, is that Al'Queda were being accused of the attacks,
>almost
>>> before the dust had settled on the scene.
>
>> Actually, the Indonesian government identified Al-Qaida. The Indonesian
>> Defense Minister on 14 Oct -- See
>> http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2002/10/14/qaida_bali/
>> And yes, the dust had not yet settled on the dead when he did so.
>
>I can only assume that you looked at the URL that I had posted, realised
>that it was to an article in a quality British newspaper, and thought that
>there would 'two' (sic) many big words. Why else did you not read it, or
>if you did, your 'quote' (sic) above only confirms that you are the World's
>Most Stupid Man (tm). Allow me to repost the URL ...
>
>
>url:http://argument.independent.co.uk/regular_columnists/adrian_hamilton/
story.jsp?story=343585
>
>... and allow me to provide a few 'quotes' (sic) from that article, which I
>for one, found interesting ...
>
> 'The Indonesian authorities say the Bali bomb blast was the
> work of al-Qa'ida because that absolves them of the blame for
> failing to control their local Muslim fanatics. Washington
> proclaims the same because it wishes the struggle to be seen in
> global terms, not specific regional discontents which would
> be harder to address. The pro-Israeli lobby wants to put the
> Bali bomb down to worldwide Islamic fundamentalism because that
> puts the fight on to a cultural basis which has no connection
> with the Palestinian issue.'
>
>So in short, your assertion that the Indonesian authorities' claim that
>al-Qa'ida was involved, is somehow 'legitimate', because it was they who
>made it, is as devoid of cogent meaning, as just about everything else you
>post here.
>
>Another 'quote' (sic) ...
>
> Exactly the same is likely to be true of the Bali massacre.
> There have been local Muslim extremist forces in Indonesia for
> a generation or more. The provision of finances, explosives and
> expertise may or may not have come from al-Qa'ida. We don't know.
> But there is no particular reason to believe that the explosion
> was particularly aimed at the Australians or the young. It was
> more likely to have been chosen as a target because it was soft
> and because it was bound to hit the international headlines. There
> is nothing peculiarly fundamentalist about it. ETA has done the
> same by attacking tourists in Spain.'
>
>Bush and Blair are pushing every act of violence which hits the headlines,
>as 'the work of al-Qa'ida', in order to legitimise their warmongering, and
>to distract attention from the real reason for wanting to go to war. It
>is a sad reflection on the 'lowest common denominator', that so many people
>are swallowing it. To quote a poster on news:soc.culture.french, what
>next ... 'al-Qa'ida responsible for disappearance of Atlantis' ? Personally,
>I think that Pompeii was really destroyed by ben Laden ...
>
>>> This was the case with the 'WTC'
>>> attacks, too.
>
>> Crap. There was clear evidence using manifests and even the voices
>> that were captured over cell-phones from the aircraft that did not
>> complete its terrorist attack, identifying from where the attack
>> had been coordinated.
>
>Would this be the same as the 'passport' miraculously found next to one
>of the Towers, despite having been in an aircraft destroyed by impact and
>thousands of gallons of burning kerosene ? *chortle*
>
>{ snip remainder of racist, homophobic LDB trying to put out the flames
> belching from his arse }
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>desmond @ zeouane.org |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 16:35:03 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 81
>Message-ID: <slrnar32dm.4n9.p...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <S0dr9.2807$v_5.2...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>
><slrnaqqo4j.n6e.p...@lievre.voute.net>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
<pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:59:50 +0000
>
>Le Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:55:30 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> As you can see ... at no time did I mention the Sudan around the period of
>>> '9/11' (sic).
>
>> Yeah... you 'blamed' Israel, or Pakistan. Of course you DID claim that
>Mossad
>> (perhaps allowing those 4000 Jewish workers to not report to work), and the
>Bush
>> Administration KNOW who did carry out the attack. Which by your words,
>again
>> rather demonstrates your lack of knowledge because if the Bush
>Administration
>> KNOWS who did it, and BLAMES bin Laden, then it is obvious that bin Laden
>did
>> it.
>
>'Gentle Reader' ... you must forgive LDB his ignorance. He is still
>confused as to how his AM radio, manages to work in the afternoon ...
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>desmond @ zeouane.org |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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.de!t-online.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not
-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:59:50 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 21
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>References: <slrnar024t.10tn....@lievre.voute.net>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 18:39:36 +0000
>
>Le Sat, 19 Oct 2002 18:38:57 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>> Ermmm...
>>
>http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=hid28.46551%24WQ1.7657194%40news6-wi
n.server.ntlworld.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
>>
>> spank...spank..spank...
>
><fx: spits blood ... laughing so much ...>
>
>ROTFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>desmond @ zeouane.org |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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lin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 18:39:36 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 17
>Message-ID: <slrnar39n8.554.p...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <slrnar024t.10tn....@lievre.voute.net>
><20021018124206...@mb-fw.aol.com>
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A Planet Visitor
> Le Sat, 19 Oct 2002 18:38:57 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> >
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=hid28.46551%24WQ1.7657194%40news6-win.server.ntlworld.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
> >
> > spank...spank..spank...
>
> <fx: spits blood ... laughing so much ...>
>
> ROTFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
GIMMICK # 8 - desi provides 'mindless drivel.'
PV
> --
> Rev Desmond Coughlan |Most High Priest of the
|Church of Eternal and Universal
|Right to Life
A Planet Visitor
> Le Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:29:18 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> >> > What I _don't_ think is that the USA bombed those nightclubs in Bali or
> >> > that the attack on the WTC was committed by anyone other than al Qui'da.
>
> >> Well to begin with, I didn't claim that the United States was in any way
> >> linked with the attacks in Bali. What I find offensive and insulting to
> >> our intelligence, is that Al'Queda were being accused of the attacks, almost
> >> before the dust had settled on the scene.
>
> > Actually, the Indonesian government identified Al-Qaida. The Indonesian
> > Defense Minister on 14 Oct -- See
> > http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2002/10/14/qaida_bali/
> > And yes, the dust had not yet settled on the dead when he did so.
>
> that it was to an article in a quality British newspaper,
LOL
<remaining pathetic drivel from desi trying to extract himself from the
silly comment he made referring to 'our' intelligence clipped>
PV
> --
John Rennie
From: "Mr Q. Z. Diablo" <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks>
Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 2:36 AM
Subject: Re: The prepared text
> In article <slrnaqulm8.u1a.p...@lievre.voute.net>,
> pasdespa...@zeouane.org wrote:
>
> > Le Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:06:05 GMT, Mr Q. Z. Diablo
> > <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> a écrit :
> >
> > { snip }
> >
> > > The article that John
> > > has linked to is interesting but is indicative of some considerable
> > > confusion about issues in Mr James' mind.
> >
> > This is hardly surprising. Much as John as is a charming old git with
> > a long repertoire of anecdotes (made all the more 'piquantes' as he
lived
> > through most of them), that could animate any dinner party for a whole
> > weekend, part of that charm is a stunningly naïve view on the world in
> > 2002.
>
> I was more thinking about the way that Mr James appears confused as to
> what side of the fence he wishes to occupy. The article starts out with
> a fairly round condemnation of many practices of the US government and
> then finishes with some out-and-out sycophancy towards that same
> institution.
>
> > But we love him anyway, don't we ..?
>
> Of course we do, even if he's not nearly as naïve as you think. It is
> especially easy for a conspiracy theorist to label views as "naïve" if
> they don't assume that the powers that be always have sinister motives.
>
> I just don't buy that. I'm proudly anti-American. I've declared that
> on a number of occasions. I disagree with the proposition of the USA
> mounting military action agaings Iraq. I feel that the net effect of
> the "invasion" of Afghanistan was to create even more outright hatred of
> the US as well as an abject failure to improve the lot of the Afghani
> people. I think that the "war on terror" has been horribly mishandled.
> I feel that Rumsfeld and Cheney are aggressive, warmongering ideologues
> who don't have the right to exercise such a strong hold over such a
> powerful institution as the United States of America. I know that
> George W. Bush Jr is an insufferable dolt.
None of the above is enough to make you anti-American surely.
Your so-called anti-Americanism stems from their way of life which
I can assure you from my own experience differs very little
from that of Oz. You will know that I supported the action
in Afghanistan but I regret the Americans' reliance on the
war lords whose reign of anarchy after the Russians retreated
was almost solely responsible for the rise of the Taliban. I also
regret the lack of a concerted effort by the USA to improve
living conditions in Afghanistan - they are spending a lot of
money there, I know but something like the old Peace Core
volunteers are needed (the only good thing about the Kennedy
administration). These would not just concentrate on making
Kabul habitable, they would try to rescue the 'Ghans' from
the almost medieval conditions which prevail in most of
their country. This means an investment of several billion dollars
but if the USA led then she would receive backing from
Europe.
>
> What I _don't_ think is that the USA bombed those nightclubs in Bali or
> that the attack on the WTC was committed by anyone other than al Qui'da.
> I just don't embrace conspiracy theories when Occam's razor provides us
> with a much simpler (and, hence, more likely) explanation. The world in
> 2002 is little different from the world in 1914. Things may move faster
> but there is a similar set of tensions in existence. It's no longer a
> clash of imperial powers - it's not even a clash between Christianity
> and Islam. It's the opposing forces of moderates versus
> fundamentalists, political, economic _and_ religious.
The above was the point of James' article. Desmond and his wild
conspiracy stories is not a loner. Many Arabs who are not
terrorists want to believe that America or Israel is responsible
for the WTC. They however lack education and information.
Desmond doesn't and that is why he has no excuses for his
ridiculous theories. What are we to do? I think James tries
to seek a solution. We back unreservedly those Arab States
whom have not yet succumbed to fundamentalism. That means
backing Giddafy and Mubarak and even the King of Morocco.
Up until Shrub's 'Axis of Evil' speech I would have thought it might
have been useful to see if we could have got Saddam interested
in thwarting fundamentalism. It's no friend of his or the Ba'ath
party but the USA seems determined to equate Iraq and the
pathetic 'war on terrorism'.
>
> Those are the cards the way I see 'em, anyway.
>
> > { snip }
> >
> > >> 'There are no direct ties between Jemaah Islamiyah and Osama
> > >> bin Laden's al-Qaida network ...'
> >
> > > I'm not so sure that this is the case. They appear to share a set of
> > > strategic aims so, while there may not be a connection, their ideas
are
> > > distressingly similar.
> >
> > The IRA probably 'share[d] a set of strategic aims' with the
> > Bader-Meinhof
> > gang ... but we didn't see every IRA attack being attributed to them,
did
> > we ?
>
> The evidence is starting to come in. It's pretty clear now that the
> bombings were perpetrated by JI.
>
> > The problem is that the 'stifling' of intelligent debate since '9/11'
> > (sic)
> > in the United States (and, as a consequence, in her 51st state) has the
> > very real aim of legitimising as much as possible American military
> > intervention, in the misguided and etymologically impossible 'war
against
> > terrorism'. The American arms industry _needs_ conflict to offset the
> > drop in orders since the end of the Cold War. The American economy
> > _needs_
> > conflict to offset the recession that has only just started to bite.
> > George
> > W. Bush _needs_ conflict to make the American eloctorate forget that his
> > main 'achievements' to date have been to sodomise the economy, and to
> > kill
> > thousands of innocent Arabs.
>
> GWB has no more caused the current situation than my own un-favourite,
> Little Johnny Howard. The situation is fortuitous for the pair of them,
> just as it is lucky for the recently sabre-rattling Tony Blair.
I hope you realise that if it wasn't for our Tony, Shrub would be in the
process of attacking Iraq now using the pretext of 12 year old UN
resolutions as his sole justification. Blair has provided an valuable
brake with his insistence (to a point) on getting UN approval for further
action.
This has allowed France to provide a further brake which I am pleased
to see the USA has agreed to.
Do I
> think that GWB Jr is borderline "evil"? You bet. Do I think that he
> has in any way hoped that the atrocities of the last 12 months or so
> would happen? No fucking way. He is, like many politicians, an
> opportunist who will stoop as low as required in order to ensure that he
> holds on to power for as long as possible but stooping is something that
> one does in order to avoid the aftermath of carnage - not to cause the
> carnage itself.
You know I just cannot see any advantages for the USA in a war on
Iraq. They'll cut the Sorcerer's broom in two and then again only
to find that the smaller the enemies pitched against them, the more
they will be. If we think we suffer from terrorism now it will be
nothing compared with what the next generation will face if Bush
and the puppet master, Cheney get their way. Have you listened
to the language that Bush is using?. Frankly Hitler was a model
of restraint even at the Nuremberg rallies. He would never
have dared to advocate pre-emptive strikes as Bush is doing and
his audience ( I can see them now - composed of thousands of
Jiggys) are absorbing this rubbish like blotting paper
>
> > Hugh joked a few days ago, that 'jaywalkers' (sic) would soon be known
as
> > the 'terrorists of the highways', but his joke had more than a grain of
> > truth in it. Every illegal act from now on, will be termed 'terrorism',
> > for in uttering the 'magic' word, governments have free rein to use
> > overwhelming force to 'curb terrorism' (read 'to put down dissent'). It
> > was a lesson that Ariel Sharon learned in the hours following '9/11'
> > (sic).
> >
> > Those who question this brutality, are termed 'anti-American', or
> > 'unpatriotic', or 'pro-terrorist'. It is the simple-minded, parochial,
> > 'binary' way of thinking that one cannot be 'anti-terrorist', and 'anti-
> > butcher-unarmed-civilans' at the same time.
Just don't let all this make you anti-American. It is too decent a
country for you to be so..
>
> I couldn't agree more with these paragraphs. (Mostly) conservative
> governments are making good use of public anxiety to increase their
> powers in almost every respect imaginable. It concerns and distresses
> me.
>
> What's more, I'm saddened to note that the LCD in Australian society
> generally agree with their mouthpieces - the talkback radio shock jocks.
> Just three days ago, one Alan Jones (a mean-spirited, right-wing
> ideologue if ever I heard one) advocated the arrest of people for
> "un-Australian activity".
>
> *sigh*
>
> Mr Q. Z. D.
A Planet Visitor
"Mr Q. Z. Diablo" <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> wrote in message
news:jonathan-15D4B1...@newsroom.utas.edu.au...
> In article <slrnaqulm8.u1a.p...@lievre.voute.net>,
> pasdespa...@zeouane.org wrote:
>
> > Le Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:06:05 GMT, Mr Q. Z. Diablo
> > <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> a écrit :
<clipped>
> I just don't buy that. I'm proudly anti-American.
Either you are admitting you are a bigot, or you have constructed a
very poorly expressed view. I am sure that you mean 'proudly
anti-American policy.' There is quite a difference, than saying
"I'm proudly anti-American. <full stop>"
And I'd be interested in hearing if you agree with my 'correction'
to your words. Desi is 'anti-American' -- bigoted in that view.
I cannot believe there is even the slightest resemblance to desi's
hate for ALL Americans and your often reasoned disgust with U.S. policy.
PV
<clipped>
> Mr Q. Z. D.
> --
> Drinker, systems administrator, wannabe writer, musician and all-round bastard.
> "...Base 8 is just like base 10 really... ((o))
> If you're missing two fingers." - Tom Lehrer ((O))
A Planet Visitor
> Le Sun, 20 Oct 2002 18:25:58 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> >> I just don't buy that. I'm proudly anti-American.
>
> > Either you are admitting you are a bigot, or you have constructed a
> > very poorly expressed view. I am sure that you mean 'proudly
> > anti-American policy.' There is quite a difference, than saying
> > "I'm proudly anti-American. <full stop>"
> >
> > And I'd be interested in hearing if you agree with my 'correction'
> > to your words. Desi is 'anti-American' -- bigoted in that view.
> > I cannot believe there is even the slightest resemblance to desi's
> > hate for ALL Americans and your often reasoned disgust with U.S. policy.
>
> evil, onery desi is spanking me up and down the group again !!'
>
> Spank ... spank ... spank ...
>
??????????? This doesn't even fit in a GIMMICK category, unless we
establish a 'super' GIMMICK # 8A. desi's now SUPER famous 'mindless
drivel.' Are you presuming that he DID mean 'proudly anti-American,'
in respect to the American PEOPLE? Is he bigoted as you are ? Having
seen the full body of Mr. D. posts, I can hardly believe that.
PV
> --
> Rev Desmond Coughlan |Superlunary and Most Exalted
|Spiritual Leader of the Universal
|Right to Life Church. (umm... get
|away from me -- you filthy black
|starving child in Africa) 'My church'
|isn't for you.
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote:
> "Mr Q. Z. Diablo" <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> wrote
> in message
> news:jonathan-15D4B1...@newsroom.utas.edu.au...
> > In article <slrnaqulm8.u1a.p...@lievre.voute.net>,
> > pasdespa...@zeouane.org wrote:
> >
> > > Le Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:06:05 GMT, Mr Q. Z. Diablo
> > > <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> a écrit :
>
> <clipped>
>
> > I just don't buy that. I'm proudly anti-American.
>
> Either you are admitting you are a bigot, or you have constructed a
> very poorly expressed view. I am sure that you mean 'proudly
> anti-American policy.' There is quite a difference, than saying
> "I'm proudly anti-American. <full stop>"
Hoist by my own petard[1]. I'll accept your correction and, yes, I
expressed myself carelessly.
Mr Q. Z. D.
[1] - my own petard being pedantry, naturally.
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
pasdespa...@zeouane.org wrote:
[snippage]
> As for the attacks on the World Trade 'Center' (sic), the neo-Nazis in
> the White House, would have been well advised to get their lies rehearsed
> in advance. The problem is that since '9/11', the government has been
> changing its story regularly. From the lie about the supposed 'threat'
> to
> Air Force One, to the timeline of events whilst Bush was talking to the
> children in the Florida school. If they had handled it better, there
> would
> have been fewer people to ask, 'Why are you lying, if your hands are
> clean ?'
There are those in the USA whose hands are far from clean. But what are
they guilty of? At worst, gross, hideous incompetence.
Mr Q. Z. D.
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
<j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mr Q. Z. Diablo" <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks>
> Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
[snippage]
> > I just don't buy that. I'm proudly anti-American. I've declared that
> > on a number of occasions. I disagree with the proposition of the USA
> > mounting military action agaings Iraq. I feel that the net effect of
> > the "invasion" of Afghanistan was to create even more outright hatred
> > of
> > the US as well as an abject failure to improve the lot of the Afghani
> > people. I think that the "war on terror" has been horribly mishandled.
> > I feel that Rumsfeld and Cheney are aggressive, warmongering ideologues
> > who don't have the right to exercise such a strong hold over such a
> > powerful institution as the United States of America. I know that
> > George W. Bush Jr is an insufferable dolt.
>
> None of the above is enough to make you anti-American surely.
> Your so-called anti-Americanism stems from their way of life which
> I can assure you from my own experience differs very little
> from that of Oz.
I think that it actually stems from the litany of foreign policy
mistakes that have characterised their recent history.
> You will know that I supported the action
> in Afghanistan but I regret the Americans' reliance on the
> war lords whose reign of anarchy after the Russians retreated
> was almost solely responsible for the rise of the Taliban.
My feeling exactly. I felt that action in Afghanistan was necessary for
sure but the follow-up has been decidedly poor.
> I also
> regret the lack of a concerted effort by the USA to improve
> living conditions in Afghanistan - they are spending a lot of
> money there, I know but something like the old Peace Core
> volunteers are needed (the only good thing about the Kennedy
> administration). These would not just concentrate on making
> Kabul habitable, they would try to rescue the 'Ghans' from
> the almost medieval conditions which prevail in most of
> their country. This means an investment of several billion dollars
> but if the USA led then she would receive backing from
> Europe.
Agreed.
> > What I _don't_ think is that the USA bombed those nightclubs in Bali or
> > that the attack on the WTC was committed by anyone other than al
> > Qui'da.
> > I just don't embrace conspiracy theories when Occam's razor provides us
> > with a much simpler (and, hence, more likely) explanation. The world
> > in
> > 2002 is little different from the world in 1914. Things may move
> > faster
> > but there is a similar set of tensions in existence. It's no longer a
> > clash of imperial powers - it's not even a clash between Christianity
> > and Islam. It's the opposing forces of moderates versus
> > fundamentalists, political, economic _and_ religious.
>
> The above was the point of James' article. Desmond and his wild
> conspiracy stories is not a loner. Many Arabs who are not
> terrorists want to believe that America or Israel is responsible
> for the WTC. They however lack education and information.
> Desmond doesn't and that is why he has no excuses for his
> ridiculous theories. What are we to do? I think James tries
> to seek a solution. We back unreservedly those Arab States
> whom have not yet succumbed to fundamentalism. That means
> backing Giddafy and Mubarak and even the King of Morocco.
Given Gaddafi's recent shift in stance, I feel that we _should_ be
giving him all the help we can. At the end of the day, he's a
self-interested moderate who can do more good than ill if he's gently
pushed in the right direction.
> Up until Shrub's 'Axis of Evil' speech I would have thought it might
> have been useful to see if we could have got Saddam interested
> in thwarting fundamentalism. It's no friend of his or the Ba'ath
> party but the USA seems determined to equate Iraq and the
> pathetic 'war on terrorism'.
I think that the USA made the mistake of supporting Iraq to the extent
that our mate Saddam was led to think that he could get away with
_anything_; hence the attack on Quwait.
> > GWB has no more caused the current situation than my own un-favourite,
> > Little Johnny Howard. The situation is fortuitous for the pair of
> > them,
> > just as it is lucky for the recently sabre-rattling Tony Blair.
>
> I hope you realise that if it wasn't for our Tony, Shrub would be in the
> process of attacking Iraq now using the pretext of 12 year old UN
> resolutions as his sole justification. Blair has provided an valuable
> brake with his insistence (to a point) on getting UN approval for further
> action.
This was not his initial (stated) stance, as I'm sure you're aware.
> This has allowed France to provide a further brake which I am pleased
> to see the USA has agreed to.
As am I. If there is one good thing that can come out of the Bali
bombings it is that attacking Iraq will not reduce any terrorist threat
in any real terms.
> Do I
> > think that GWB Jr is borderline "evil"? You bet. Do I think that he
> > has in any way hoped that the atrocities of the last 12 months or so
> > would happen? No fucking way. He is, like many politicians, an
> > opportunist who will stoop as low as required in order to ensure that
> > he
> > holds on to power for as long as possible but stooping is something
> > that
> > one does in order to avoid the aftermath of carnage - not to cause the
> > carnage itself.
>
> You know I just cannot see any advantages for the USA in a war on
> Iraq. They'll cut the Sorcerer's broom in two and then again only
> to find that the smaller the enemies pitched against them, the more
> they will be. If we think we suffer from terrorism now it will be
> nothing compared with what the next generation will face if Bush
> and the puppet master, Cheney get their way. Have you listened
> to the language that Bush is using?. Frankly Hitler was a model
> of restraint even at the Nuremberg rallies. He would never
> have dared to advocate pre-emptive strikes as Bush is doing and
> his audience ( I can see them now - composed of thousands of
> Jiggys) are absorbing this rubbish like blotting paper
Unfortunately, I hold onto my belief that dissent is not tolerated in
the USA as it is in the UK or Australia. As a result of this, the
populace is very much inclined to back its President come Hell or high
water.
John Rennie
"Mr Q. Z. Diablo" <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> wrote in
message news:jonathan-70E6C7...@newsroom.utas.edu.au...
snip
> Unfortunately, I hold onto my belief that dissent is not tolerated in
> the USA as it is in the UK or Australia. As a result of this, the
> populace is very much inclined to back its President come Hell or high
> water.
>
> Mr Q. Z. D.
Well that wasn't my impression when I was on holiday
in New York a month ago. Yes I know New York is
another country but I was impressed by the number
of phone calls to the TV chat lines that were anti
any sort of war with Iraq.
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 18:26:20 +0000
>
>Le Sun, 20 Oct 2002 18:25:58 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>>> I just don't buy that. I'm proudly anti-American.
>
>> Either you are admitting you are a bigot, or you have constructed a
>> very poorly expressed view. I am sure that you mean 'proudly
>> anti-American policy.' There is quite a difference, than saying
>> "I'm proudly anti-American. <full stop>"
>>
>> And I'd be interested in hearing if you agree with my 'correction'
>> to your words. Desi is 'anti-American' -- bigoted in that view.
>> I cannot believe there is even the slightest resemblance to desi's
>> hate for ALL Americans and your often reasoned disgust with U.S. policy.
>
>Translation, 'Quick, QZD! I need all the support I can get !! That
>evil, onery desi is spanking me up and down the group again !!'
>
>Spank ... spank ... spank ...
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>desmond @ zeouane.org |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: The prepared text
>Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 18:26:20 +0000
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