Love it or Leave it 1817
Wodan
Most of those that I hear crying "Love it or Leave it" are among the
most unamerican people I have seen.
I Love America, and I intend to keep fighting for Individual Liberty,
Religious Freedom (not just "everyone is free to worship christianity in
there own way.)and the right to do as I wish as long as it doesnt
infringe unduly upon other peoples lives.
incubus
"Wodan" <wo...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:3D3D9616...@charter.net...
Cool. Its nice to see that younger countries have the same ideas us older
ones do ;-)
>
Hugh Neary
What pompous drivel. From a member of a nation that openly supports
war crimes and only came into existence by destroying the indigenous
population of this fine "freedom loving" country.
HN
A Planet Visitor
"Hugh Neary" <spamstopper@net> wrote in message news:suqrju0qkkm1eoqpg...@4ax.com...
Ummm, Hugh... you 'taught' us, all we know.
PV
> HN
>
>
>
JIGSAW1695
From: Hugh Neary spamstopper@net
Date: 7/23/2002 7:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <suqrju0qkkm1eoqpg...@4ax.com>
HN
==============================
Care to explain?
John Rennie
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
news:fym%8.114523$XH.26...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
Dead right, PV. Just remember that when you next try to separate European
and American atrocities.
A Planet Visitor
"John Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:brw%8.747$Vp1....@news8-gui.server.ntli.net...
You first... :-)
PV
Hugh Neary
????????
Explain the obvious? Come now Jigsaw, even a DP merchant can't have
his head buried that deeply in the sand.
HN
JIGSAW1695
From: Hugh Neary spamstopper@net
Message-id: <3nttju4sqbspot0kn...@4ax.com>
????????
HN
===============================
I like to have statements clarified so there is no misunderstanding or
assumptions made about meaning.
Care to explain, please?
Hugh Neary
Which bit of destroying the indingenous population of your country do
you not understand Jigsaw? I suppose there may be some confusion as
American greed saw the end of the buffalo as well, but usually the
indigenous population is understood to be the native humans.
HN
JIGSAW1695
From: Hugh Neary spamstopper@net
Message-id: <om9ujus8c0kuavhev...@4ax.com>
HN
===============================
Ah, then you must be talking about the continuing French-Indian War, or the war
the British made on native tribes that sided with the French, their enemies.
JIGSAW1695
Date: 7/24/2002 6:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <slrnaju9h2.256v....@lievre.voute.net>
Le Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:22:30 +0100, Hugh Neary <spamstopper@net> a écrit :
{ snip }
>>I like to have statements clarified so there is no misunderstanding or
>>assumptions made about meaning.
>>
>>Care to explain, please?
> Which bit of destroying the indingenous population of your country do
> you not understand Jigsaw? I suppose there may be some confusion as
> American greed saw the end of the buffalo as well, but usually the
> indigenous population is understood to be the native humans.
<fx: nods head in approval ...>
You have learned velly well, Glasshopper. Now you can leave, and
kill the infidel American pigs whelever you find them ...
--
Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1
==============================
Beware of pigs wearing lipstick and aardvarks bearing prunes Dezi. Remember,
the preying mantis is always lurking in the shadows.
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:11:46 +0000
>
>Le Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:22:30 +0100, Hugh Neary <spamstopper@net> a écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>>I like to have statements clarified so there is no misunderstanding or
>>>assumptions made about meaning.
>>>
>>>Care to explain, please?
>
>> Which bit of destroying the indingenous population of your country do
>> you not understand Jigsaw? I suppose there may be some confusion as
>> American greed saw the end of the buffalo as well, but usually the
>> indigenous population is understood to be the native humans.
>
><fx: nods head in approval ...>
>
>You have learned velly well, Glasshopper. Now you can leave, and
>kill the infidel American pigs whelever you find them ...
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:11:46 +0000
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>Lines: 24
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>
Desi is afraid of his own words! He can be reached at des...@noos.fr or
des...@zeouane.org.
As everyone knows, only COWARDS forge posts yet don't allow their own to be
archived!
Now Desi, Tell us about the Baltimore County police.
Hugh Neary
No I mean the grabbing of Indian land by settlers, also the removal of
the buffalo [ the Indians key to survival] by sheer waste and greed.
Perhaps this is why America sits so comfortably supporting
Sharon's butchery. You believe settlers have the sole rights to any
native populations assets they happen to desire?
HN
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:04:54 +0000
>
>Le Thu, 25 Jul 2002 23:04:16 +0100, Hugh Neary <spamstopper@net> a écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>> Perhaps this is why America sits so comfortably supporting
>> Sharon's butchery. You believe settlers have the sole rights to any
>> native populations assets they happen to desire?
>
>Now, now, Hugh ... everyone knows that the 9 children killed two nights
>ago, were PLO activists, hiding several tons of explosives in their
>prams, and just waiting for the opportunity to explode those prams in
>front of Israeli government buildings ...
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:04:54 +0000
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>Lines: 18
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John Rennie
"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote in message
news:slrnak0tg6.29ca....@lievre.voute.net...
> Le Thu, 25 Jul 2002 23:04:16 +0100, Hugh Neary <spamstopper@net> a écrit
:
>
> { snip }
>
> > Sharon's butchery. You believe settlers have the sole rights to any
> > native populations assets they happen to desire?
>
> ago, were PLO activists, hiding several tons of explosives in their
> prams, and just waiting for the opportunity to explode those prams in
> front of Israeli government buildings ...
>
> --
> Desmond Coughlan
Israel's act was deplorable and should be condemned by all just
as we should condemn the actions of the suicide bombers when
their explosions cause the deaths of infants. The photograph of the
Aran activist holding up the body of the dead two month baby
as some sort rallying call marks a new low in this dreadful
conflict where no one can win.
Earl Evleth
Rennie à j.re...@ntlworld.com a écrit le 26/07/02 11:27 :
> Israel's act was deplorable and should be condemned by all just
> as we should condemn the actions of the suicide bombers when
> their explosions cause the deaths of infants. The photograph of the
> Aran activist holding up the body of the dead two month baby
> as some sort rallying call marks a new low in this dreadful
> conflict where no one can win.
One specific problem for the US is using American weaponry for these
bombings. The one that occurred his time went further the "co-lateral"
damage (and old Pentagonese expression) since the deaths of the
children were not accidental but expected.
Powell is current making the usual noises of protest, Bush said it was
"heavy handed". But the US in the past has never effectively done
anything more than issue a verbal protest.
So the dog barks, Sharon`s caravan passes.
Earl
John Rennie
"Earl Evleth" <evl...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:B9671451.3252%evl...@wanadoo.fr...
Do you ever make a post without finding some way to run
down your native country? If the Israelis didn't use
American weapons, they'd use British or French ones.
The arms industry of all countries sells to those who have
the money. If it had 'ethics' (the posh cousin of 'morality')
it wouldn't exist.
Hugh Neary
But if your land was taken from you, and your rights were none
existant, wouldn't you use every means at your diposal to win back
what is in effect your "identity".
What's the point of finding Israels acts "deplorable, illegal"
or anything else if the west [Notably the US] continues to ship arms
in to them.
HN
Earl Evleth
Rennie à j.re...@ntlworld.com a écrit le 26/07/02 16:50 :
> Do you ever make a post without finding some way to run
> down your native country? If the Israelis didn't use
> American weapons, they'd use British or French ones.
> The arms industry of all countries sells to those who have
> the money. If it had 'ethics' (the posh cousin of 'morality')
> it wouldn't exist.
The arms commerce with the USA is different. It dominates
the political landscape in the middle east.
US Aid to Israel is the US largest aid, around 3 billion a year.
In fact it is more since the US arms "sales" are debts by Israel
and are forgiven. It is another more opaque financing of military
aid from the USA. The other countries, one presumes, want cash
in the barrel head in arms sales.
Germany supplied some tank components but recently
cut those off. In don't know what Britain does now but it has been
more or less "America's poodle" on a lot of foreign policy issues.
But Europe is more generally critical of Israeli policy and might
even be willing to cut if off if that country did not behave in a fashion
the citizens would approve of. Americans are mostly knee jerk supporters
of Israel compared with Europeans.
Personally, I was disapproving at the time of French aid to the Iraq at the
time of their war with Iran. Iraq was the aggressor state, it was seeking
territorial advantage when it went to war with Iran. Western
nations tended to take an apologist view of Iraq at that time. Not only
France but the USA lent a great deal of money to Iraq. Just before the
invasion of Kuwait Iraq was granted loans to buy US grain. Senator Dole and
the mid-west farm lobby was pushing for US loans to sponsor this export.
They were granted and stand unrepaid.
Yes, I admit I am critical of the USA foreign policy at this point in time,
I join most of the Europeans in that sense. In that good sense.
Earl
A Planet Visitor
unoriginal remarks. Can you provide the reference for your
dog-caravan remark? Since it might appear you found it
when I used it (unoriginal usage), rather than from the original
source. I know that source... do you? Let's see if my
'intellectual goosing' brings forth any effort on your part.
PV
> Earl
>
>
A Planet Visitor
"John Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:fld09.18208$vN6.9...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
>
> "Earl Evleth" <evl...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
> news:B9671451.3252%evl...@wanadoo.fr...
> > dans l'article RB809.1054$7v5....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net, John
> > Rennie à j.re...@ntlworld.com a écrit le 26/07/02 11:27 :
> >
> > > Israel's act was deplorable and should be condemned by all just
> > > as we should condemn the actions of the suicide bombers when
> > > their explosions cause the deaths of infants. The photograph of the
> > > Aran activist holding up the body of the dead two month baby
> > > as some sort rallying call marks a new low in this dreadful
> > > conflict where no one can win.
> >
> > One specific problem for the US is using American weaponry for these
> > bombings. The one that occurred his time went further the "co-lateral"
> > damage (and old Pentagonese expression) since the deaths of the
> > children were not accidental but expected.
> >
> > Powell is current making the usual noises of protest, Bush said it was
> > "heavy handed". But the US in the past has never effectively done
> > anything more than issue a verbal protest.
> >
> > So the dog barks, Sharon`s caravan passes.
> >
> > Earl
> >
>
> Do you ever make a post without finding some way to run
> down your native country?
>
it rather represents some strange form of an axiom. Since
one might well ask 'doesn't two and two equal four?' It's a
question for which an answer has already been provided.
Earl's answer to your question is that providing a post
which does not run down his native country, is like asking
him to state that 'two and two equal three.' He has not
'earned' the name 'Tokyo Earl,' for no reason.
___|___
|
^
PV
John Rennie
"Hugh Neary" <spamstopper@net> wrote in message
I wouldn't hold up the body of a dead two year old.
I happen, unlike Desmond, to believe that the State of
Israel should not have been created and that because of
its creation there will never, repeat never, be peace in the
Middle East. However there can be more peaceful periods
than others and gestures like the above will serve only
to cause more deaths without securing any sort of
"identity".
>
> What's the point of finding Israels acts "deplorable, illegal"
> or anything else if the west [Notably the US] continues to ship arms
> in to them.
>
> HN
If the USA didn't others would.
A Planet Visitor
> Le Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:04:25 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> >> Do you ever make a post without finding some way to run
> >> down your native country?
>
> > I don't know exactly what you'd call your question.
>
> better.
>
No, I tried two very simple languages, unfamiliar to you. The
first is called 'logic,' and the second 'arithmetic.' You can find
books on those subjects (even in English), at most book stores
and your library... try it, you may like it.
> { snip }
Umm... guess what? -- into desi's 'mindless drivel' bin #2 - <plink>
PV
> --
> Desmond Coughlan |EVEN SATAN KNOWS
|AND LIFTS HIS BROW IN WONDER AT
|THE EVIL DESI SHOWS
John Rennie
> Le Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:56:26 +0100, Hugh Neary <spamstopper@net> a écrit
:
>
snip
. However, no political 'cause', however
> 'just', can be used to condone the killing of innocent people, whether
> they be Israeli, or Palestinian.
>
>
> --
> Desmond Coughlan
Do you believe then that the UK should not have gone to war
against Germany?
A Planet Visitor
> Le Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:56:26 +0100, Hugh Neary <spamstopper@net> a écrit :
>
<Clipped the antics of two bigots in a paroxysmal display of
transcendent excremental logorrhea>
> Yes, your frustration with Israel's butchery, financed by the United
> States, is understandable.
Let's all look at 'Uncle desi's' butchery,' shall we? He is also
the guy who claims he's a member of Amnesty Int., but when they
issued a condemnation of Palestinian terrorists he would not
agree with such a statement. See --
http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE020032002?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES\ISRAEL/OCCUPIED+TERRITORIES
PV
>
> --
> Desmond Coughlan
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 21:18:00 +0000
>
>Le Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:04:25 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> Do you ever make a post without finding some way to run
>>> down your native country?
>
>> I don't know exactly what you'd call your question.
>
>Translate it into your native Hindi, and you'll perhaps understand it
>better.
>
>{ snip }
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 21:18:00 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 19
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 00:41:58 +0000
>
>Le Sat, 27 Jul 2002 00:33:43 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>>> Yes, your frustration with Israel's butchery, financed by the United
>>> States, is understandable.
>
>> the guy who claims he's a member of Amnesty Int., but when they
>> issued a condemnation of Palestinian terrorists he would not
>> agree with such a statement. See --
>>
>http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE020032002?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIE
S\ISRAEL/OCCUPIED+TERRITORIES
>
>PV, ever considered therapy ?
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
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p212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 00:41:58 +0000
>Organization: None
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:31:27 +0000
>
>Le Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:27:16 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com> a
>écrit :
>
>>> > Perhaps this is why America sits so comfortably supporting
>>> > Sharon's butchery. You believe settlers have the sole rights to any
>>> > native populations assets they happen to desire?
>
>>> Now, now, Hugh ... everyone knows that the 9 children killed two nights
>>> ago, were PLO activists, hiding several tons of explosives in their
>>> prams, and just waiting for the opportunity to explode those prams in
>>> front of Israeli government buildings ...
>
>> Israel's act was deplorable and should be condemned by all just
>> as we should condemn the actions of the suicide bombers when
>> their explosions cause the deaths of infants. The photograph of the
>> Aran activist holding up the body of the dead two month baby
>> as some sort rallying call marks a new low in this dreadful
>> conflict where no one can win.
>
>Agreed.
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:31:27 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 25
>Message-ID: <slrnak25nf.2bgl....@lievre.voute.net>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 23:59:45 +0000
>
>Le Sat, 27 Jul 2002 00:02:11 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com> a
>écrit :
>
>> . However, no political 'cause', however
>>> 'just', can be used to condone the killing of innocent people, whether
>>> they be Israeli, or Palestinian.
>
>> Do you believe then that the UK should not have gone to war
>> against Germany?
>
>Of course. The UK should have signed a treaty with Hitler, allowing
>for the annexation of Poland, and should then have had him made PM
>of the UK ...
>
>Any more dumbfuck questions, John ?
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not
>-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 23:59:45 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 20
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 00:09:19 +0000
>
>Le Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:27:32 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>>> >> Do you ever make a post without finding some way to run
>>> >> down your native country?
>
>>> > I don't know exactly what you'd call your question.
>
>>> Translate it into your native Hindi, and you'll perhaps understand it
>>> better.
>
>> No, I tried two very simple languages, unfamiliar to you.
>
>Oh boy ... so logic, and arithmetic, are 'languages' now ... PV plumbs
>new depths in his desire to 'get one up' on Desmond. What's next, PV,
>inventing a new 'nickname' for me ? Oops, you've already done that. What's
>next, PV, attributing to me, posts that I never made ? Oops, you're already
>done that. What's next, PV ? Claiming 'victory', when all of AADP can
>see that you've been spanked good and proper ? Oops, you've already done
>that. What's next, PV, claiming that I'm 'angry' because I use the word
>'fuck' ? Oops, you're already done that. What's next PV, scouting around
>for a friend, whilst billywank is away ? Oops, you've already done that.
>
>Well, not much left, in the way of originality. Hands up the 'AADPers'
>who are surprised !
>
>...
>
>...
>
>...
>
>A resounding vote ...
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
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de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 00:09:19 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 38
>Message-ID: <slrnak3p5f.2ejn....@lievre.voute.net>
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A Planet Visitor
> Le Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:27:32 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> >> >> Do you ever make a post without finding some way to run
> >> >> down your native country?
>
> >> > I don't know exactly what you'd call your question.
>
> >> Translate it into your native Hindi, and you'll perhaps understand it
> >> better.
>
> > No, I tried two very simple languages, unfamiliar to you.
>
> new depths in his desire to 'get one up' on Desmond. What's next, PV,
> inventing a new 'nickname' for me ? Oops, you've already done that. What's
> next, PV, attributing to me, posts that I never made ? Oops, you're already
> done that. What's next, PV ? Claiming 'victory', when all of AADP can
> see that you've been spanked good and proper ? Oops, you've already done
> that. What's next, PV, claiming that I'm 'angry' because I use the word
> for a friend, whilst billywank is away ? Oops, you've already done that.
>
> Well, not much left, in the way of originality. Hands up the 'AADPers'
> who are surprised !
Ummm... 'potty-mouth'.. Being 'originally' stupid, as you demonstrate
you are, is hardly a great achievement. If you're 'originally' WRONG,
that 'originality' cannot make you RIGHT, or even make you look 'bright.'
So, let's for one moment look at your 'original' claim that 'Logic' and
'arithmetic' (call it all mathematics), are not 'languages.' Then, let's
for a moment presume that Galileo Galilei, was more clever than you
(a quantum leap for you, given your immense ego, but simply a
short hop for everyone else). Now, quoting him --
"The book of the universe is written in the language of mathematics,
without the help of which it is impossible to conceive a single word
of it, and without which one wanders in vain through a dark labyrinth."
So apparently that 'original' argument of yours in respect to
'arithmetic' not being a language is disputed by Galileo. Now...
Who ARE we to believe? Of course, this classical saying was
enough to put paid to disproving any silly idea you might have that
there is no language of Mathematics. But, simply doing a
search on that term, will results in literally thousands of sources,
most of them academic, which speak directly of 'the Language of
Mathematics.' So.... ROTFLMAO.
Next we approach the 'Language of Logic.' Now, I had presumed
that you had some rudimentary training in computers. But
apparently you have never heard the term 'Programming Languages,'
such as Perl, Cobol, Fortran, etc. Now, believe it or not, those
'programming languages' are simply the 'language of logic.' This
may confuse you, since you probably believe they work by
magic,' but you'll have to trust me here, since at the heart of
all programming languages lies simply an assortment
of ones and zeros, arranged to logically perform 'and' 'or' 'nand'
'nor' 'true' 'false' and various other logical choices. Further
information can be found through a variety of resources. See --
http://www.risc.uni-linz.ac.at/courses/formal/slides/logic/
Titled "The Language of Logic," authored by the Johannes
Kepler University, Linz, Austria, simply by looking at the
first result of "Language of Logic," in google.
I trust this little journey has not been too 'pseudo-intellectual' for
you. I have tried hard to keep it as simple as possible, knowing
the limited capabilities of my student. My efforts lately are
always directed to keeping it as 'simple' as possible when dealing
with you, for obvious reasons. Complex problems seem to give
you some trouble. And if you have any further questions, don't
be afraid to ask, and even Earl might help you.
In conclusion... I'm afraid, my son, that there are great gaps in
your 'classical education.' So stick with me now. And learn
something. Now... about that 10 cm quarter-wave-length transmission
line??? I do believe that dirt is still working feverishly on an answer,
and that's been the reason for his absence. While you've simply
given up. He always did have a more fertile mind then you.
Less ossified, I would describe it as. Although every bit as
much a 'potty-mouth,' as you.
So -- into desi's 'mindless drivel' bin #2 -- <plink>
with...
> A resounding vote ...
A Planet Visitor
> Le Sat, 27 Jul 2002 00:33:43 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> >> Yes, your frustration with Israel's butchery, financed by the United
> >> States, is understandable.
>
> > issued a condemnation of Palestinian terrorists he would not
> > agree with such a statement. See --
> > http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE020032002?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES\ISRAEL/OCCUPIED+TERRITORIES
>
>
When you respond with 'must have the last word,' moronic,
one line, exquisitely ignorant, hebephreniac (look it up,
stupid) remarks, such as this one, I will probably ignore
them, in the interest of letting you 'stomp your foot in
childish rage,' while not actually saying anything. Not
all, of course... certainly even unruly kids need a slap
every now and then, when totally out of control. But
ignore some that simply show your inability to actually
form any manner of a reply except a bwaahhahahahha,
or one line of nonsense, containing absolutely no meaning,
except that pathetic, obsessive need to have that 'last word.'
Fair warning... since when you TRY to make any sense,
or make disgusting remarks, I will find it necessary to slap
you down, as I've done in the past.
I think it's quite clear who desperately needs therapy, sport.
The very existence of the discipline was developed for those
such as yourself. Prior to that it would have been strictly
'straight-jacket' time for you, with weekly visits from the
family in a controlled environment. Accompanied by a
good deal of weeping in the background, and appeals to
"Mother... be strong now... it's all for the best," from
other family members gathered for such visits. You're
a pitiful sight, desi... simply a pitiful example of humanity.
desi 'mindless drivel' bin #2 -- <plink>
Earl Evleth
Visitor à abc...@zbqytr.ykq a écrit le 26/07/02 22:04 :
> Apparently you've been reading my posts... and copying my
> unoriginal remarks. Can you provide the reference for your
> dog-caravan remark? Since it might appear you found it
> when I used it (unoriginal usage), rather than from the original
> source. I know that source... do you? Let's see if my
> 'intellectual goosing' brings forth any effort on your part.
Actually, I usually don't read your posts but caught this one.
The "caravan" Arab saying is a old one.
Doing a Google on a partiçular newgroups only, I found that I used it first
on soc.retirement on 13 Nov 1999 on a string dealing with "The Cuban and
other revolutions".
I used it now and then and again on the Nov 10th 2000 in one posting
which you commented on it November 16th 2000.
I had said --snipping nearly all the post---
>" Flail away, but "the dogs bark and the caravan passes". Keep barking away.
This caravan moves on."
to which you responded:
"Your caravan is encountering a few ruts in the road, courtesy
Planet Visitor. "
But I did not notice your more recent use of the expression until writing
this reply.
Doing a Google on all news groups one gets 247 hits, the earliest of
which is 1997 on a simple search.
A general web search comes up with:
"Who wrote " the dogs bark, the caravan passes "? Kateb Yassin"
who is a contemporary Algerian writer. So this is not old Arab
wisdom at work, more recent.
Anyway, we are all up to date, unless you can add something I missed.
Woof, as dirtdog would say. Or I lifted my leg and pissed, and I did not
pass this way but once.
Earl
dirtdog
<abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote:
<snipped>
> Now... about that 10 cm quarter-wave-length transmission
>line??? I do believe that dirt is still working feverishly on an answer,
>and that's been the reason for his absence
Obsessed.
How satisfying to note that during another absence (the reasons for
which I have already explained - and modesty prevents me from
repeating) you can still do little more than chase Desmond around like
a moth round a light bulb and blither inanely about me.
ANd are you _still_ trying to show how clever you are with that silly
little _simple_ question of yours, the answer to which I provided
quite eloquently several weeks ago?
<bollocks snipped>
w00f
dirtdog
<abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote:
>
>"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote in message
>news:slrnak3r2m.2ejn....@lievre.voute.net...
>> Le Sat, 27 Jul 2002 00:33:43 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>>
>> >> Yes, your frustration with Israel's butchery, financed by the United
>> >> States, is understandable.
>>
>> > the guy who claims he's a member of Amnesty Int., but when they
>> > issued a condemnation of Palestinian terrorists he would not
>> > agree with such a statement. See --
>> > http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE020032002?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES\ISRAEL/OCCUPIED+TERRITORIES
>>
>> PV, ever considered therapy ?
>>
>Let me give you a little advance notice here, you silly brat.
<rant snipped>
I think, Desmond, that this means one of two things:
1- No
2- Yes, but I bored my group so much that one committed suicide. I was
expelled
w00f
Wodan
word in a sentence.
As far as I know America does not "openly" support war crimes, though
our military industrial complex does subversively do it, which is one of
those things I work against.
Every primary nation that has come into being in recorded history has
either destroyed or tried to destroy the indigenous population that they
displaced, with the possible exeption of India, and I'm not sure on that
one. The U.S. just did it badly and in recent enough times that it's
still at the forefront of our nation-conciousness. As one of those
people who the U.S. tried to destroy (1/4 Cree) I probably have a far
better understanding of that then you.
To the group:
I apologize for crossposting the original message I was responding to
another poster and didnt realize that I was doing so.
John Rennie
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
news:kro09.150695$XH.33...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
So much temper, so much ire and for what? Desmond
is basically a troll and a troll enjoys getting the above sort of
response. He is well educated but not that bright. (Unlike
myself who is ill educated but very bright) He can go
so far in an argument and then it becomes too complicated
for him and trollish tactics are the only ones left for
him. You really should try more humour and less
anger.
dirtdog
<j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
<snipped>
> (Unlike
>myself who is ill educated but very bright)
If ever a comment in this group required a solid 'LOL', that was it.
I do hope this statement was in itself a troll, John, because you may
be sensible, you may be reasoned, but 'bright' you ain't.
Tell me about how fooloish I was to contend that one can not 'intend'
to rape - a perfect example of how being 'sensible' precluded your
being 'bright'.
L-O-L. And more L-O-L.
<snipped over 60's [sic] shaft rubbing session because it really is
distasteful>
w00f
Hugh Neary
<pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote:
>Le Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:56:26 +0100, Hugh Neary <spamstopper@net> a écrit :
>
>>>> > Perhaps this is why America sits so comfortably supporting
>>>> > Sharon's butchery. You believe settlers have the sole rights to any
>>>> > native populations assets they happen to desire?
>
>>>> Now, now, Hugh ... everyone knows that the 9 children killed two nights
>>>> ago, were PLO activists, hiding several tons of explosives in their
>>>> prams, and just waiting for the opportunity to explode those prams in
>>>> front of Israeli government buildings ...
>
>>>Israel's act was deplorable and should be condemned by all just
>>>as we should condemn the actions of the suicide bombers when
>>>their explosions cause the deaths of infants. The photograph of the
>>>Aran activist holding up the body of the dead two month baby
>>>as some sort rallying call marks a new low in this dreadful
>>>conflict where no one can win.
>
>> But if your land was taken from you, and your rights were none
>> existant, wouldn't you use every means at your diposal to win back
>> what is in effect your "identity".
>>
>> What's the point of finding Israels acts "deplorable, illegal"
>> or anything else if the west [Notably the US] continues to ship arms
>> in to them.
>
>Yes, your frustration with Israel's butchery, financed by the United
>States, is understandable. However, no political 'cause', however
>'just', can be used to condone the killing of innocent people, whether
>they be Israeli, or Palestinian.
Do you not think that stealing someones land & livelyhood
warrants some kind of action then?
What options are open to the Palestinians, plead with a bunch
of heavily armed settlers, [backed up by the Israeli army] in the hope
that they will apologise & give the property back?
Pacifist that I am, if someone "settled" on my property, I
would use every means at my diposal to remove them. I would also feel
happy using the term self defence to describe my actions.
Bush & Blair have few qualms about splattering innocents all
over the landscape so how come it's unjust for an opressed people to
act in the only way left open to them.
Perhaps if the US didn't meddle quite so much, the luxury of a
[if you'll pardon the term] "fair" war may have been possible. It
isn't and if the only way that the Palestinians can obtain a fair deal
is via the "Christian charity" of the Jew's then the blood bath will
continue.
HN
A Planet Visitor
> Le Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:42:54 +0100, dirtdog <dog.of.sp...@w00f.cxm> a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> >>> PV, ever considered therapy ?
>
> >>Let me give you a little advance notice here, you silly brat.
>
> >
> > 1- No
> >
> > 2- Yes, but I bored my group so much that one committed suicide. I was
> > expelled
>
>
<belly laugh on>
TRANSLATION --"SLURP.... SLURP... SLURP.. Right back at you,
big fellow. Missed kissing that butt of yours, and PV was ripping me
a new one."
Football back to dirt...
<belly laugh off>
Into desi's 'mindless drivel' bin #1 -- <plink>
A Planet Visitor
"dirtdog" <dog.of.sp...@w00f.cxm> wrote in message news:nmq4kuku7vnoeqpg2...@4ax.com...
<belly laugh on>
TRANSLATION - "Jawohl.. Jawohl.. Jawohl... mein Fuhrer. My duty is
to obey your orders. SLURP... SLURP... SLURP... "
Isn't it great to be back with that football, dirt? Back to you, desi.
<belly laugh off>
Into dirt's 'mindless drivel' bin #1 -- <plink>
PV
> w00f
>
>
A Planet Visitor
> Le Sat, 27 Jul 2002 03:28:16 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> >> PV, ever considered therapy ?
>
> > Let me give you a little advance notice here, you silly brat.
>
>
> Take a deep breath, LDB ... b-r-e-a-t-h-e ... that's it ... now calm
> down, and remember, having been to see a trick cyclist, is _no_ shame. I
> know lots ... sorry, lot's of people who've done it.
>
desi taking the 'Aztec two-step' to ignorance.
> { snip LDB claiming victory }
>
<belly laugh on>
desi showing some desperation. While continuing to make no sense.
But desi is a perfectionist, and rarely, if ever, remembers details.
Good to have your 'clone' back... isn't it?
<belly laugh off>
Into desi's 'mindless drivel' bin #2 -- <plink>
A Planet Visitor
"dirtdog" <dog.of.sp...@w00f.cxm> wrote in message news:67q4kuo6qpqaafedd...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 27 Jul 2002 02:40:46 GMT, "A Planet Visitor"
> <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote:
>
> <snipped>
>
> > Now... about that 10 cm quarter-wave-length transmission
> >line??? I do believe that dirt is still working feverishly on an answer,
> >and that's been the reason for his absence
>
> Obsessed.
>
Actually, trying to 'plumb the depths' of your presumed 'classical
education.' We have now discovered that 'arithmetic' gives you
some frightful problems.
> How satisfying to note that during another absence (the reasons for
> which I have already explained - and modesty prevents me from
> repeating) you can still do little more than chase Desmond around like
> a moth round a light bulb and blither inanely about me.
>
<still on>
One must chase 'evil' wherever one finds it. That's why I'm so
concerned about the 'evil' that you have within you, that you'd
hope to expel into this newsgroup. We do what we have to do,
consistent with the time and effort we wish to devote to it.
Clearly, you're a waste of MY time... but then, after all... I'm
retired, and it beats the 'boob tube.' Especially during the
'off-season.'
> ANd are you _still_ trying to show how clever you are with that silly
> little _simple_ question of yours, the answer to which I provided
> quite eloquently several weeks ago?
>
Sure you did, dirt. However, I didn't see a three-figure number that
answered the specific question. Just a bunch of what to you is
nonsense, and which you certainly did not understand any more
than you understand a 'mitigating circumstance.' It's obvious
that 'arithmetic' frightens you as much as it does your 'clone.'
Or are you his 'clone'? Hard to tell the difference. What is it with
you guys who claim to hold a 'classical education,' yet become
frightened by things that are unfamiliar to you... like kids afraid
of the dark. Wasn't that the problem in the Dark Ages?
> <bollocks snipped>
<belly laugh still holding>
<okay.. belly laugh now off>
A Planet Visitor
"John Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:%7u09.21185$vN6.1...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
<belly laugh on>
Why is it you see ''temper" here? desi is beyond any such
emotion from me. The mental image I conjure up, of him
when he reads my posts, and responds with 'mindless
drivel' is 'excruciatingly delightful' for me. And you believing
that isn't the emotion I express in ALL of desi's comments,
simply demonstrates how narrowly you view the content of
my posts, and how difficult it is to pass emotional content
in this context. Please presume, that when I don't indicate I
found nothing but 'some jolly good stupidity,' contained in
desi's post, that it is in fact, all I found. You may presume that
with dirt's 'comments' (sic) as well. You must be very
unaware, if you think for a moment that I take desi or
dirt SERIOUSLY. When they both have been trapped in so
many lies, and demonstrations of ignorance (a behavior
that should elicit only laughter in a forum where it can
do no actual harm). Are desi and dirt 'evil'? Of course they
are. But that doesn't mean we need to take them seriously.
Anymore than we take hi1k seriously. They all remain as
'symbols of ignorance' that our species often demonstrates,
only here to be ridiculed. Having nothing of substance to
offer except that ignorance, which does provide for some
moments of hilarious laughter.
<belly laugh off>
PV
John Rennie
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
Not convinced - sorry.
John Rennie
> >> 'just', can be used to condone the killing of innocent people, whether
> >> they be Israeli, or Palestinian.
>
> > against Germany?
>
> for the annexation of Poland, and should then have had him made PM
> of the UK ...
>
> Any more dumbfuck questions, John ?
>
> --
> Desmond Coughlan
Certainly got a dumbfuck answer. The reason for that is that
the pacifist cannot give a reasonable answer to my question.
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:19:57 +0000
>
>Le Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:42:54 +0100, dirtdog <dog.of.sp...@w00f.cxm> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>>> PV, ever considered therapy ?
>
>>>Let me give you a little advance notice here, you silly brat.
>
>> I think, Desmond, that this means one of two things:
>>
>> 1- No
>>
>> 2- Yes, but I bored my group so much that one committed suicide. I was
>> expelled
>
>LOL ...
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
>Path:
>lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!n
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!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:19:57 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 22
>Message-ID: <slrnak53vd.2mql....@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <20020724204148...@mb-cf.aol.com>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:14:49 +0000
>
>Le Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:57:18 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> > PV, ever considered therapy ?
>
>{ snip PV's blood pressure getting near to 'danger level' }
>
>> So much temper, so much ire and for what?
>
>{ snip }
>
>Hee hee ... yes, I do believe that I hit a sore spot, there.
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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R!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:14:49 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 19
>Message-ID: <slrnak53lp.2mql....@lievre.voute.net>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 23:01:07 +0000
>
>Le Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:46:19 +0100, Hugh Neary <spamstopper@net> a écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>>> But if your land was taken from you, and your rights were none
>>>> existant, wouldn't you use every means at your diposal to win back
>>>> what is in effect your "identity".
>>>>
>>>> What's the point of finding Israels acts "deplorable, illegal"
>>>> or anything else if the west [Notably the US] continues to ship arms
>>>> in to them.
>
>>>Yes, your frustration with Israel's butchery, financed by the United
>>>States, is understandable. However, no political 'cause', however
>>>'just', can be used to condone the killing of innocent people, whether
>>>they be Israeli, or Palestinian.
>
>> Do you not think that stealing someones land & livelyhood
>> warrants some kind of action then?
>
>Just about every country on the planet, has at some time 'stolen'
>land from another people. Whilst I can appreciate the need to
>'defend' that land, I cannot see my way to condoning the killing of
>innocents.
>
>{ snip }
>
>> Perhaps if the US didn't meddle quite so much, the luxury of a
>> [if you'll pardon the term] "fair" war may have been possible. It
>> isn't and if the only way that the Palestinians can obtain a fair deal
>> is via the "Christian charity" of the Jew's then the blood bath will
>> continue.
>
>Alas, yes it will. Where is Ghandi when we need him ..? :-(
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 23:01:07 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 40
>Message-ID: <slrnak69hi.30oo....@lievre.voute.net>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:23:48 +0000
>
>Le Sat, 27 Jul 2002 03:28:16 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> PV, ever considered therapy ?
>
>> Let me give you a little advance notice here, you silly brat.
>
>{ snip LDB admitting that he has been to therapy }
>
>Take a deep breath, LDB ... b-r-e-a-t-h-e ... that's it ... now calm
>down, and remember, having been to see a trick cyclist, is _no_ shame. I
>know lots ... sorry, lot's of people who've done it.
>
>{ snip LDB claiming victory }
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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net.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:23:48 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 21
>Message-ID: <slrnak546k.2mql....@lievre.voute.net>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:50:25 +0000
>
>Le Sat, 27 Jul 2002 02:40:46 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> Oh boy ... so logic, and arithmetic, are 'languages' now ... PV plumbs
>>> new depths in his desire to 'get one up' on Desmond. What's next, PV,
>>> inventing a new 'nickname' for me ? Oops, you've already done that.
>What's
>>> next, PV, attributing to me, posts that I never made ? Oops, you're
>already
>>> done that. What's next, PV ? Claiming 'victory', when all of AADP can
>>> see that you've been spanked good and proper ? Oops, you've already done
>>> that. What's next, PV, claiming that I'm 'angry' because I use the word
>>> '****' ? Oops, you're already done that. What's next PV, scouting around
>>> for a friend, whilst billywank is away ? Oops, you've already done that.
>>>
>>> Well, not much left, in the way of originality. Hands up the 'AADPers'
>>> who are surprised !
>
>> Ummm... 'potty-mouth'..
>
>'ROTFMAO !!' (sic).
>
>{ snip LDB studiously avoiding quoting _The OED_, to 'prove' that
>mathematics is a 'language' }
>
>Oh, and get off your knees, LDB !! You're a shame to your native Chile !!
>
>{ gets ready for 'joke' by LDB about his not liking chilli, only to be
>slapped down again, and then claim that he 'knew' that Chile was the
>country, and 'chilli' is the spice ... }
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:50:25 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 35
>Message-ID: <slrnak55oh.2o0s....@lievre.voute.net>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 23:01:07 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 40
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A Planet Visitor
"Earl Evleth" <evl...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:B9681B59.34AA%evl...@wanadoo.fr...
> Anyway, we are all up to date, unless you can add something I missed.
>
> Woof, as dirtdog would say. Or I lifted my leg and pissed, and I did not
> pass this way but once.
>
Not bad, Earl. As usual, quite long-winded. In the end, wrong of
course, but the effort was obvious. See --
http://www.coe.tamu.edu/presentations/Fall1998Breakfast/tsld024.htm
It is hardly a contemporary saying, and is in fact unattribted, but
recognized as originating long ago as a Persian proverb. It was
also attributed to Russian General Aleksandr Lebed, who recently
died in a helicopter crash, as he liked to use the proverb. See
http://web.media.mit.edu/~constans/lebed/al-quotes.html
Research, Earl... research.
PV
> Earl
A Planet Visitor
"John Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:IsE09.2730$g81.1...@news8-gui.server.ntli.net...
I wasn't out to 'convince' you. I said what is truly in my words,
and if you aren't 'convinced,' that really doesn't matter. I was
'unconvinced' when you claimed that morality did not factor
into your perception, as well. But that doesn't mean it DOES.
It simply means I am 'unconvinced.' If my words could
'convince' you, you would be a determined retentionist. And if
your words could 'convince' me, I would be an abolitionist.
Don't start using what I refer to as 'desi logic' here. Since
he has admitted it is a 'language' that he doesn't comprehend.
While I hope it remains my 'mother-tongue.'
<belly laugh off>
PV
Earl Evleth
Visitor à abc...@zbqytr.ykq a écrit le 28/07/02 5:09 :
> Not bad, Earl. As usual, quite long-winded.
I will leave that to your expert judgement on the subject of long
windedness.
See --
> http://www.coe.tamu.edu/presentations/Fall1998Breakfast/tsld024.htm
I looked this above site all it is a slide which says it is an ancient
Persian proverb. Unless I missed it somewhere it gave no authorship
or literature citation.
> It is hardly a contemporary saying, and is in fact unattribted, but
> recognized as originating long ago as a Persian proverb.
As I said, your source merely claims that without further information.
I would have thought the saying older than contemporary and was
surprised myself when it was attributed to Kateb Yassin. He is known
in Paris, apparently has appeared at the Institut du Monde Arab several
times.
> also attributed to Russian General Aleksandr Lebed, who recently
> died in a helicopter crash, as he liked to use the proverb. See
> http://web.media.mit.edu/~constans/lebed/al-quotes.html
> Research, Earl... research.
I will say "so what" to this second piece of "research"! It is
contemporary use also both of them are in fact undated as it
the Yassin reference. None of these could be used in a
professional article reference. We have both an ancient
and new copy of Bartlett's Familiar quotations and this
expression is not in either.
The key thing was, of course, is that you thought you had used it first
on this NG. So you decided to bait. But I used it before you did that did
not stick well for you, so you decided to do more "research". I recognized
it at the time and chuckled when I found I had predated you. Not that
it was important but because I knew you'd try and follow up.
The key question, "is it worth the effort"?
A lot of expressions, especially puns, are reinvented in time. For instance
one of my puns for unschooled visitors it so asked them
"Do you know why Napoleon's tomb is not interesting?"
They will look at me confused and say
"Non, why"
I would then respond
"Because only the bonyparts are buried there"
I never remember reading that pun anywhere but
I think I read latter it was in a Paris travel guide of the 1870s!
In spite of my apparent age and wisdom 1870 does predate
me.
Up until that point I had self congratulated myself on being
(once again) an original punster. It might well have been
that I did read it in another form and it stuck in the deep
memory and reemerged as an "original pun". Perhaps
my previous used in the year 2000 of this ancient "Persan"
saying stuck in your mind and reemerged recently, seemingly
predating my assumed copycat use of it a few days later on
this NG. You did grab and run with it and that is what
is generated chuckles on this side of the Atlantic. Thanks
for a moment of amusement.
I assume you will fuss around a little more with this subject
but I will repeat 'is it worth it"?
Earl
Hugh Neary
<pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote:
SNIP
>> Do you not think that stealing someones land & livelyhood
>> warrants some kind of action then?
>
>Just about every country on the planet, has at some time 'stolen'
>land from another people. Whilst I can appreciate the need to
>'defend' that land, I cannot see my way to condoning the killing of
>innocents.
How can anyone that takes another persons property illegaly by force
be innocent?
If he is provided with state support for his actions who are
the innocent parties in all this?
If I took over my neighbours house & land, then parked my
children in it, who would be to blame if they were hurt in the ensuing
fight?
HN
>{ snip }
>
>> Perhaps if the US didn't meddle quite so much, the luxury of a
>> [if you'll pardon the term] "fair" war may have been possible. It
>> isn't and if the only way that the Palestinians can obtain a fair deal
>> is via the "Christian charity" of the Jew's then the blood bath will
>> continue.
>
John Rennie
> Le Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:05:48 +0100, Hugh Neary <spamstopper@net> a écrit
:
>
snip
> >
> > If I took over my neighbours house & land, then parked my
> > children in it, who would be to blame if they were hurt in the ensuing
> > fight?
>
> of land from its 'rightful' (whatever that means) owners.
And yet you're a pro-Zionist. How you manage to straddle
positions like the above with your declared support for the
creation of the State of Israel is baffling. Perhaps
stealing a whole country from its rightful inhabitants
is so large a crime it has escaped your notice.
John Rennie
>
>
> Did the IRA bombing campaigns on the British mainland, constitute
> 'justifiable' killing for you ? Did the fact that the British army
> is enforcing an army of occupation on a part of Eire, against the
> wishes of the majority of the population of that country, constitute
> reason to bomb innocent men, women, and children in England ?
Now this is serious. What part of Eire are we occupying? Mayo,
Tipperary, Clare, the three counties of Ulster?
>
> I don't have the wisdom of Solomon;
You don't have the wisdom of M ickey Mouse but why should that
stop you?
I don't have all the answers. I
> just cannot and will never condone killing where there is not 'clear
> and present danger' of death or serious injury to a third party.
>
> --
> Desmond Coughlan
John Rennie
> Le Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:41:18 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com>
a écrit :
>
> >> > If I took over my neighbours house & land, then parked my
> >> > children in it, who would be to blame if they were hurt in the
ensuing
> >> > fight?
>
> >> You're preaching to the converted, Hugh. No one can justify the taking
> >> of land from its 'rightful' (whatever that means) owners.
>
> > And yet you're a pro-Zionist. How you manage to straddle
> > positions like the above with your declared support for the
> > creation of the State of Israel is baffling. Perhaps
> > stealing a whole country from its rightful inhabitants
> > is so large a crime it has escaped your notice.
>
> dimbulb.
>
>
> --
> Desmond Coughlan ht
The Jews left Palestine - its called the Jewish Diaspora. They
left over a period of hundred of years that started during
the Roman occupation. They left and other Semitic races
moved in and Palestine 'belongs' to them. Prior to 1914
the population of the area now called Israel was 90%
Arab 7% Jewish and 3% other - mainly Christian. The
fools who changed all that are those Englishmen who
you much despise elsewhere - the same set of men who
negotiated the 1922 treaty with Eire, Southern Ireland,.
whatever.- Lloyd George, Churchill and Balfour.
A country belongs to those who live in it not to those
who have historical claims to it. This is the reason that
there will never be peace in Israel and you can wring
your hands and bemoan the many ghastly deaths that
have occurred and will occur to your heart's content
and still there will not be peace. It is now too late to
remedy the original wrong. Israel has to be supported
not because she has a 'right' to be supported but
because she exists. The withdrawal of support could
lead finally to another holocaust and I don't give tuppence
then for 'rights' or 'wrongs'.
John Rennie
> Le Sun, 28 Jul 2002 15:08:42 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com>
a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> >> The rightful inhabitants of Palestine are the Jews, you fucking
> >> dimbulb.
>
>
> difference between 'leaving', and 'being expelled'.
>
> { snip }
I know that they both mean that they are no longer there
any more and that is what really counts. The people
who moved in were not those who were responsible
for the evictions but even if they were we are referring
to a period extending from 1800 to a 1000 years ago.
>
> > left over a period of hundred of years that started during
> > the Roman occupation. They left and other Semitic races
> > moved in and Palestine 'belongs' to them.
>
> Palestine no more 'belongs' to the Palestinians, than Northern
> Ireland 'belongs' to the descendants of Scottish Presbyterians. Moving'
> into a land 'abandoned' by a people forced to leave by threat of death,
> does not confer 'ownership'.
>
> { snip }
I have often pointed out here that the 'planiting' of a race
with a different religion, language and culture in Ireland
bears a great deal of similarity with the creation of
a 'European' state in the 'continent' of the Middle East.
That conflict has been going strong for 300 years now
with no real signs of completion, not a happy comparison.
PLMerite
>
>
> I have often pointed out here that the 'planiting' of a race
> with a different religion, language and culture in Ireland
> bears a great deal of similarity with the creation of
> a 'European' state in the 'continent' of the Middle East.
> That conflict has been going strong for 300 years now
> with no real signs of completion, not a happy comparison.
So if Israel was a despotic little shithole like its neighbors, that would
be okay?
Regards, PLMerite
--
"Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry
"Miracles do not cluster. Hold on to the Constitution of the United States
of America and the Republic for which it stands - what has happened once in
six thousand years may never happen again. Hold on to your Constitution,
for if the Constitution shall fail there will be anarchy throughout the
world." - Daniel Webster, 1851
"If I must choose between peace and righteousness, I will choose
righteousness." Theodore Roosevelt
If it's time to bury them, it's time to dig them up.
"When contemplating college liberals, you really regret once again that John
Walker is not getting the death penalty. We need to execute people like John
Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize
that they can be killed too. Otherwise they will turn out to be outright
traitors.” Ann Coulter
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 12:55:00 +0000
>
>Le Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:41:18 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com> a
>écrit :
>
>>> > If I took over my neighbours house & land, then parked my
>>> > children in it, who would be to blame if they were hurt in the ensuing
>>> > fight?
>
>>> You're preaching to the converted, Hugh. No one can justify the taking
>>> of land from its 'rightful' (whatever that means) owners.
>
>> And yet you're a pro-Zionist. How you manage to straddle
>> positions like the above with your declared support for the
>> creation of the State of Israel is baffling. Perhaps
>> stealing a whole country from its rightful inhabitants
>> is so large a crime it has escaped your notice.
>
>The rightful inhabitants of Palestine are the Jews, you fucking
>dimbulb.
>
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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8.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 12:55:00 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 24
>Message-ID: <slrnak7qd4.8jc.p...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <om9ujus8c0kuavhev...@4ax.com>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 12:56:07 +0000
>
>Le Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:45:56 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com> a
>écrit :
>
>>> Did the IRA bombing campaigns on the British mainland, constitute
>>> 'justifiable' killing for you ? Did the fact that the British army
>>> is enforcing an army of occupation on a part of Eire, against the
>>> wishes of the majority of the population of that country, constitute
>>> reason to bomb innocent men, women, and children in England ?
>
>> Now this is serious. What part of Eire are we occupying? Mayo,
>> Tipperary, Clare, the three counties of Ulster?
>
>Perhaps you should bone up on the differences between 'country' and
>'province'. Or perhaps you're too 'bright' to have to do that ...
>
>>> I don't have the wisdom of Solomon;
>
>> You don't have the wisdom of M ickey Mouse but why should that
>> stop you?
>
>It never has you ...
>
>{ snip }
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 12:56:07 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 28
>Message-ID: <slrnak7qf6.8jc.p...@lievre.voute.net>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 14:18:17 +0000
>
>Le Sun, 28 Jul 2002 15:08:42 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> The rightful inhabitants of Palestine are the Jews, you fucking
>>> dimbulb.
>
>> The Jews left Palestine - its called the Jewish Diaspora.
>
>I know what it's called, but evidently, _you_ do not know the
>difference between 'leaving', and 'being expelled'.
>
>{ snip }
>
>> left over a period of hundred of years that started during
>> the Roman occupation. They left and other Semitic races
>> moved in and Palestine 'belongs' to them.
>
>Palestine no more 'belongs' to the Palestinians, than Northern
>Ireland 'belongs' to the descendants of Scottish Presbyterians. Moving
>into a land 'abandoned' by a people forced to leave by threat of death,
>does not confer 'ownership'.
>
>{ snip }
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 14:18:17 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 30
>Message-ID: <slrnak7v98.8jc.p...@lievre.voute.net>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:18:59 +0000
>
>Le Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:05:48 +0100, Hugh Neary <spamstopper@net> a écrit :
>
>>>> Do you not think that stealing someones land & livelyhood
>>>> warrants some kind of action then?
>
>>>Just about every country on the planet, has at some time 'stolen'
>>>land from another people. Whilst I can appreciate the need to
>>>'defend' that land, I cannot see my way to condoning the killing of
>>>innocents.
>
>> How can anyone that takes another persons property illegaly by force
>> be innocent?
>>
>> If he is provided with state support for his actions who are
>> the innocent parties in all this?
>>
>> If I took over my neighbours house & land, then parked my
>> children in it, who would be to blame if they were hurt in the ensuing
>> fight?
>
>You're preaching to the converted, Hugh. No one can justify the taking
>of land from its 'rightful' (whatever that means) owners. However, I
>do not believe that the taking of life can be justified, except under
>conditions of _extreme_ self-defence.
>
>Killing someone who is trying to kill you, is unavoidable. Shooting
>at a bus filled with innocent civilians, or bombing a building and killing
>innocent civilians, isn't.
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:18:59 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 34
>Message-ID: <slrnak7kp3.89k.p...@lievre.voute.net>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:12:00 +0000
>
>Le Sun, 28 Jul 2002 09:07:48 +0200, Earl Evleth <evl...@wanadoo.fr> a écrit
>:
>
>{ snip }
>
>> The key thing was, of course, is that you thought you had used it first
>> on this NG. So you decided to bait. But I used it before you did that
>did
>> not stick well for you, so you decided to do more "research". I recognized
>> it at the time and chuckled when I found I had predated you. Not that
>> it was important but because I knew you'd try and follow up.
>
>Little Dancing Boy (LDB) is, even if he doesn't know it, an excellent
>advert for the Internet. Having left school very young to emigrate to
>the United States with his 'moujik' parents, he missed out on an
>education. Now, the Internet allows him to sit in his trailer, and
>_appear_ erudite, as he copies and pastes from 'hits' obtained by
>various search engines.
>
>Not that it fools those of us on AADP, fortunate enough to be blessed
>with a classical British education, but there are enough simpletons
>amongst the ranks of the deathies, to 'fall under' his spell, and so he
>can obtain the recognition that was denied to him all his life.
>
>{ snip }
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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p212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:12:00 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 29
>Message-ID: <slrnak7kbv.81u.p...@lievre.voute.net>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:25:46 +0000
>
>Forgot to say ...
>
>Le Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:18:59 +0000, Desmond Coughlan
><pasdespa...@zeouane.org> a écrit :
>
>>>>> Do you not think that stealing someones land & livelyhood
>>>>> warrants some kind of action then?
>
>>>>Just about every country on the planet, has at some time 'stolen'
>>>>land from another people. Whilst I can appreciate the need to
>>>>'defend' that land, I cannot see my way to condoning the killing of
>>>>innocents.
>
>>> How can anyone that takes another persons property illegaly by force
>>> be innocent?
>>>
>>> If he is provided with state support for his actions who are
>>> the innocent parties in all this?
>>>
>>> If I took over my neighbours house & land, then parked my
>>> children in it, who would be to blame if they were hurt in the ensuing
>>> fight?
>
>> You're preaching to the converted, Hugh. No one can justify the taking
>> of land from its 'rightful' (whatever that means) owners. However, I
>> do not believe that the taking of life can be justified, except under
>> conditions of _extreme_ self-defence.
>>
>> Killing someone who is trying to kill you, is unavoidable. Shooting
>> at a bus filled with innocent civilians, or bombing a building and killing
>> innocent civilians, isn't.
>
>Did the IRA bombing campaigns on the British mainland, constitute
>'justifiable' killing for you ? Did the fact that the British army
>is enforcing an army of occupation on a part of Eire, against the
>wishes of the majority of the population of that country, constitute
>reason to bomb innocent men, women, and children in England ?
>
>I don't have the wisdom of Solomon; I don't have all the answers. I
>just cannot and will never condone killing where there is not 'clear
>and present danger' of death or serious injury to a third party.
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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uni-berlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:25:46 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 46
>Message-ID: <slrnak7l5p.89k.p...@lievre.voute.net>
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A Planet Visitor
"Earl Evleth" <evl...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:B96964E4.35F7%evl...@wanadoo.fr...
> dans l'article LfJ09.14890$s8.4...@twister.tampabay.rr.com, A Planet
> Visitor à abc...@zbqytr.ykq a écrit le 28/07/02 5:09 :
>
>
> > Not bad, Earl. As usual, quite long-winded.
>
> I will leave that to your expert judgement on the subject of long
> windedness.
>
seems you are beyond help.
> See --
> > http://www.coe.tamu.edu/presentations/Fall1998Breakfast/tsld024.htm
>
> I looked this above site all it is a slide which says it is an ancient
> Persian proverb. Unless I missed it somewhere it gave no authorship
> or literature citation.
>
> > It is hardly a contemporary saying, and is in fact unattributed, but
> > recognized as originating long ago as a Persian proverb.
>
> As I said, your source merely claims that without further information.
> I would have thought the saying older than contemporary and was
> surprised myself when it was attributed to Kateb Yassin. He is known
> in Paris, apparently has appeared at the Institut du Monde Arab several
> times.
At the risk of causing you some embarrassment, I
would refer you to
http://www.bartleby.com/66/46/45346.html
Here is particular proof that Yassin was NOT the originator
of the proverb, since it apparently exists in a literary
review magazine article written by Marcel Proust in 1918
(Nouvelle Revue Française), fully 11 years before Yassin
was even born (Yassin was born in 1929). Nor do I believe
Marcel Proust was the originator, but it certainly disproves
your 'theory' regarding Yassin. Research, Earl...Research.
And in respect to Yassin, I would hope you mean in 'past
times,' since he has been dead since 1989. In any case,
it is only attributed to him in sources which seem to be
biased toward him, as a writer. Kateb Yassin (also Yacine)
was born in 1929. My Oxford Dictionary of Quotations,
ISBN 0-19-860173-5, DOES contain the quotation, and
lists it under 'proverbs,' as unattributed, from 'late 19th
Century.' He could hardly have been the author of this
proverb if he was not even born until 29 years into the
20th Century. Further... proverbs are generally assumed to
be quotations that in common knowledge have no known
author or literary source. While I would still insist that a
quotation; which is not attributed to a recognized source, but
is instead a proverbial source as in the Oxford Dictionary of
Quotations; probably has an origination far more distant
than 'late 19th Century'; it CERTAINLY pre-dates Yassin.
>
> > also attributed to Russian General Aleksandr Lebed, who recently
> > died in a helicopter crash, as he liked to use the proverb. See
> > http://web.media.mit.edu/~constans/lebed/al-quotes.html
> > Research, Earl... research.
>
> I will say "so what" to this second piece of "research"! It is
> contemporary use also both of them are in fact undated as it
> the Yassin reference. None of these could be used in a
> professional article reference. We have both an ancient
> and new copy of Bartlett's Familiar quotations and this
> expression is not in either.
>
I could say the same to your 'research.' I was simply
speaking of when I first saw the quotation, and made no
claim that Lebed was the originator. Always insisting
that the original source is unknown, since one source
always seem to pre-date the next.
> The key thing was, of course, is that you thought you had used it first
> on this NG. So you decided to bait. But I used it before you did that did
> not stick well for you, so you decided to do more "research". I recognized
> it at the time and chuckled when I found I had predated you. Not that
> it was important but because I knew you'd try and follow up.
>
Unlike you, I am not burdened by an insufferable ego, and can
easily admit that I missed your original use of the quotation
over a year ago (you should try admitting your errors some time,
it would lend some humility to your character, which you often
seem desperately in need of). Yes, in this particular case I
should have researched, before jumping on you, since it would
have shown that you used the proverb one time, on June 15, 2001,
over a year ago. That particular post was as unmemorable as the
remainder of your posts -- lengthy, dry, mechanically anti-American
as usual and hardly worth absorbing, yet it did contain that proverb.
I used it recently having seen it in a comment concerning the
death of General Lebed, which remarked that he was fond of using
it, and seemed to find an appropriate place to shove it (up desi's
rectum as I recall). You then used it again, shortly after I had, while
I was unaware you had used it before. So in truth, you had used it
before, but I had not recognized you had done so.
> The key question, "is it worth the effort"?
>
I could well ask, "Why is the search for ANY information 'worth the effort'?"
It would seem that both of us learned something here. I learned you
had used the proverb before. You learned that you had no idea where
it came from.
<silly 'dear diary' remark appropriately stripped>
> Up until that point I had self congratulated myself on being
> (once again) an original punster. It might well have been
> that I did read it in another form and it stuck in the deep
> memory and reemerged as an "original pun". Perhaps
> my previous used in the year 2000 of this ancient "Persan"
> saying stuck in your mind and reemerged recently, seemingly
> predating my assumed copycat use of it a few days later on
> this NG. You did grab and run with it and that is what
> is generated chuckles on this side of the Atlantic. Thanks
> for a moment of amusement.
>
Ummm... you used it in 2001, not 2000. While you've certainly
shown you had no idea of the original source.
Now... I've quite explained how I came to use the proverb, and if
I even sensed that you had used it before, do you REALLY think I
would have commented on YOUR use shortly after I first used
it? You're rather naive if you believe that. Damn... an aphorism.
> I assume you will fuss around a little more with this subject
> but I will repeat 'is it worth it"?
>
And I will repeat -- "Is a search for knowledge worth it?" Of
course EVERYTHING has been said that needs to be said --
but since no one was listening it sometimes has to be said
again. And see how YOU'VE gained the knowledge that Yassin
was not the originator of the proverb. If you've learned nothing
else today (I assume that is the case), then at least you've
learned that. And always remember that 'He is educated,
who knows how to find out what he doesn't know.' (George
Simmel).
PV
> Earl
Earl Evleth
Visitor à abc...@zbqytr.ykq a écrit le 29/07/02 6:45 :
> And I will repeat -- "Is a search for knowledge worth it?"
So will I. Your response was a champion of long windedness which
demonstrated your expertise in the absurd!
I don`t think anybody else read your whole posting, I did not. The overall
mass of it did remind me of another saying:
This one, I think is attributed to Caesar but repeated
by George Patton when his troops constructed a bridge across the Rhine,
beating out Monty's to follow crossing. I think that Patton said it
in French:
"je pisse, je passe"
Thanks for the opportunity of my getting to say it.
You are now allowed follow my lead in its use, as you did in the
caravan saying. It is the use of the hammer which is important,
not who invented it.
Earl
Hugh Neary
<pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote:
>Forgot to say ...
>
>Le Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:18:59 +0000, Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> a écrit :
>
>>>>> Do you not think that stealing someones land & livelyhood
>>>>> warrants some kind of action then?
>
>>>>Just about every country on the planet, has at some time 'stolen'
>>>>land from another people. Whilst I can appreciate the need to
>>>>'defend' that land, I cannot see my way to condoning the killing of
>>>>innocents.
>
>>> How can anyone that takes another persons property illegaly by force
>>> be innocent?
>>>
>>> If he is provided with state support for his actions who are
>>> the innocent parties in all this?
>>>
>>> If I took over my neighbours house & land, then parked my
>>> children in it, who would be to blame if they were hurt in the ensuing
>>> fight?
>
>> You're preaching to the converted, Hugh. No one can justify the taking
>> of land from its 'rightful' (whatever that means) owners. However, I
>> do not believe that the taking of life can be justified, except under
>> conditions of _extreme_ self-defence.
>>
>> Killing someone who is trying to kill you, is unavoidable. Shooting
>> at a bus filled with innocent civilians, or bombing a building and killing
>> innocent civilians, isn't.
>
>Did the IRA bombing campaigns on the British mainland, constitute
>'justifiable' killing for you ? Did the fact that the British army
>is enforcing an army of occupation on a part of Eire, against the
>wishes of the majority of the population of that country, constitute
>reason to bomb innocent men, women, and children in England ?
Very difficult to paste a right or wrong to acts of violence
sometimes. If it wasn't for the IRA the Nationalists in Northern
Ireland would be on a par with the Arabs in Palestine. I do not think
it was right to bomb civilians, and if my recollections are correct,
the peace process seemed to get "fast tracked" when some of the more
notable city properties were targeted.
>
>I don't have the wisdom of Solomon; I don't have all the answers. I
>just cannot and will never condone killing where there is not 'clear
>and present danger' of death or serious injury to a third party.
Up to a point, I agree. The snag is if you steal someones property,
limit his freedoms and remove his self respect, then I think that
person has a right to rebel against the people that are responsible.
If an entire society suports the theft via taxes or anything else,
then they must share the blame.
Obviously killing & maiming kiddies is out. That is usually
best left to war criminals like Bush & Blair anyway.
HN
Salman bin Hamad
> >
> >Did the IRA bombing campaigns on the British mainland, constitute
> >'justifiable' killing for you ? Did the fact that the British army
> >is enforcing an army of occupation on a part of Eire, against the
> >wishes of the majority of the population of that country, constitute
> >reason to bomb innocent men, women, and children in England ?
>
> Very difficult to paste a right or wrong to acts of violence
> sometimes. If it wasn't for the IRA the Nationalists in Northern
> Ireland would be on a par with the Arabs in Palestine. I do not think
> it was right to bomb civilians, and if my recollections are correct,
> the peace process seemed to get "fast tracked" when some of the more
> notable city properties were targeted.
The billion dollar truck bombs did not lose the war for the IRA.
Rather the reverse. However as a kind of victory approached the IRA
realised they still needed a political process. Victory in itself and
on its own might be a disaster.
The IRA faced the issue when it could no longer be ignored. Ten or
fifteen billoin dollar truck bombs might get the British out of
Ireland but it wouldn't actually solve very much.
The British might have contemplated anything to save face even if they
were prepared to leave Ulster. It was best not to provoke the British
too much. If a truck bomb had exploded prematurely we might have had
thousands of casualties, it was high risk stuff.
Hugh Neary
bin Hamad) wrote:
>Hugh Neary <spamstopper@net> wrote in message news:<nf3bkuogij1g12ipg...@4ax.com>...
>
>> >
>> >Did the IRA bombing campaigns on the British mainland, constitute
>> >'justifiable' killing for you ? Did the fact that the British army
>> >is enforcing an army of occupation on a part of Eire, against the
>> >wishes of the majority of the population of that country, constitute
>> >reason to bomb innocent men, women, and children in England ?
>>
>> Very difficult to paste a right or wrong to acts of violence
>> sometimes. If it wasn't for the IRA the Nationalists in Northern
>> Ireland would be on a par with the Arabs in Palestine. I do not think
>> it was right to bomb civilians, and if my recollections are correct,
>> the peace process seemed to get "fast tracked" when some of the more
>> notable city properties were targeted.
>
>
>The billion dollar truck bombs did not lose the war for the IRA.
>Rather the reverse.
I never said it did.
> However as a kind of victory approached the IRA
>realised they still needed a political process. Victory in itself and
>on its own might be a disaster.
>
>The IRA faced the issue when it could no longer be ignored. Ten or
>fifteen billoin dollar truck bombs might get the British out of
>Ireland but it wouldn't actually solve very much.
>
>The British might have contemplated anything to save face even if they
>were prepared to leave Ulster. It was best not to provoke the British
>too much. If a truck bomb had exploded prematurely we might have had
>thousands of casualties, it was high risk stuff.
Indeed! I'm just wondering what the "pay off" is now. To some extent
the fact that were all part of the EEC should erode the differences
between the two communities. It hasn't seemed to have made a jot of
difference though.
I get a strong impression that the South are not now overly
keen on welcoming back their "long lost bretheren". The dole money
would take a lot of the cream away from what must now be the celtic
pussy cat :-)
HN
Hugh Neary
<pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote:
>Le Mon, 29 Jul 2002 20:05:07 +0100, Hugh Neary <spamstopper@net> a écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>>I don't have the wisdom of Solomon; I don't have all the answers. I
>>>just cannot and will never condone killing where there is not 'clear
>>>and present danger' of death or serious injury to a third party.
>
>> Up to a point, I agree. The snag is if you steal someones property,
>> limit his freedoms and remove his self respect, then I think that
>> person has a right to rebel against the people that are responsible.
>> If an entire society suports the theft via taxes or anything else,
>> then they must share the blame.
>>
>> Obviously killing & maiming kiddies is out. That is usually
>> best left to war criminals like Bush & Blair anyway.
>
>So as long as the IRA and the PLO only target adult civilians, then
>their violence is acceptable ?
Again it depends what that civilian is doing. If he is engaged
in an act that warrants defensive measures, yes.
I find the DP an abhorrence that has no place in civilised
society, but I would have no qualms whatsoever in using any level of
force neccesary to prevent the forcible, illegal removal of my
property (or health).
Turning the other cheek no doubt had the desireable effect for
Ghandi, but for most it would be a means of fast tracking out of the
gene pool.
HN
John Rennie
"Hugh Neary" <spamstopper@net> wrote in message
snip
> Again it depends what that civilian is doing. If he is engaged
> in an act that warrants defensive measures, yes.
>
> I find the DP an abhorrence that has no place in civilised
> society, but I would have no qualms whatsoever in using any level of
> force neccesary to prevent the forcible, illegal removal of my
> property (or health).
Huh! Would you therefore kill if someone attempted to
steal your mobile if that was the 'level of force necessary'
to prevent its removal? Explain how someone removes
your health?
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:15:23 +0000
>
>Le Mon, 29 Jul 2002 20:05:07 +0100, Hugh Neary <spamstopper@net> a écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>>I don't have the wisdom of Solomon; I don't have all the answers. I
>>>just cannot and will never condone killing where there is not 'clear
>>>and present danger' of death or serious injury to a third party.
>
>> Up to a point, I agree. The snag is if you steal someones property,
>> limit his freedoms and remove his self respect, then I think that
>> person has a right to rebel against the people that are responsible.
>> If an entire society suports the theft via taxes or anything else,
>> then they must share the blame.
>>
>> Obviously killing & maiming kiddies is out. That is usually
>> best left to war criminals like Bush & Blair anyway.
>
>So as long as the IRA and the PLO only target adult civilians, then
>their violence is acceptable ?
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:15:23 +0000
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Hugh Neary
<j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>"Hugh Neary" <spamstopper@net> wrote in message
>news:76jbkuoknleq8eukk...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:15:23 +0000, Desmond Coughlan
>> <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote:
>
>snip
>
>> Again it depends what that civilian is doing. If he is engaged
>> in an act that warrants defensive measures, yes.
>>
>> I find the DP an abhorrence that has no place in civilised
>> society, but I would have no qualms whatsoever in using any level of
>> force neccesary to prevent the forcible, illegal removal of my
>> property (or health).
>
>Huh! Would you therefore kill if someone attempted to
>steal your mobile if that was the 'level of force necessary'
>to prevent its removal?
Yes! By the time the level of force got to the "kill" bit though, the
mobile thief would have had plenty of opportunity to relinquish his
"toy". I certainly wouldn't happily wave him off down the street, if
that's what you expect. I would certainly be prepared to use a degree
of force to reclaim my property, and if that was met with force I
would ramp up as much as neccesary.
> Explain how someone removes
>your health?
Oooh! difficult one here isn't it? If someone put a person in
hospital, the victim would no longer be healthy. Therefore it is
logical to assume that the victims previous state of health was
removed by the antagonist.
Would you not be happier in a newsgroup centered around the English
language?
John Rennie
"Hugh Neary" <spamstopper@net> wrote in message
Difficult for you not to be rude isn't it, Hugh?
I'm happy with the explanation about the removal of
health but less so with your concern about your
property. If a mugger demanded my mobile and
was prepared to use physical force, I would hand
it over promptly. I don't give tuppence for 'things'
- that obsession I leave to our American friends.
If, however, my children, friends or the odd passerby's
lives were in danger I hope I would act as you would
if your mobile was threatened.
incubus
> Le Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:13:28 +0100, Hugh Neary <spamstopper@net> a écrit
:
>
> { snip }
>
> >>Huh! Would you therefore kill if someone attempted to
> >>steal your mobile if that was the 'level of force necessary'
> >>to prevent its removal?
>
> > Yes! By the time the level of force got to the "kill" bit though, the
> > mobile thief would have had plenty of opportunity to relinquish his
> > "toy". I certainly wouldn't happily wave him off down the street, if
> > that's what you expect. I would certainly be prepared to use a degree
> > of force to reclaim my property, and if that was met with force I
> > would ramp up as much as neccesary.
>
> in the UK, Hugh. The use of 'lethal force' to protect life, is
> permitted. Using it to protect property, isn't.
>
Do you remember that case in the news about 2 or 3 years back I think where
a man shot to death a 16 year old intruder and was sentenced to life for
murder? I was horrified until I heard the man emotionally tortured the boy
before killing him in cold blood. I would be the last person to condemn a
person for protecting his/her own property, but to torture and kill in cold
blood like that is not acceptable.
incubus
> Le Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:57:45 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a
écrit :
>
> >> Such an approach would (rightly) earn you a life sentence for murder
> >> in the UK, Hugh. The use of 'lethal force' to protect life, is
> >> permitted. Using it to protect property, isn't.
>
> > Do you remember that case in the news about 2 or 3 years back I think
where
> > a man shot to death a 16 year old intruder and was sentenced to life for
> > murder? I was horrified until I heard the man emotionally tortured the
boy
> > before killing him in cold blood. I would be the last person to condemn
a
> > person for protecting his/her own property, but to torture and kill in
cold
> > blood like that is not acceptable.
>
> and who was given a life sentence ? No, I didn't know that he had
> tortured the young lad before shooting him, but am unfamiliar with
> the details of the case, anyway. Wasn't his sentence reduced to
> manslaughter recently ?
Yes, apparently he had the boy begging for his life so i hear before
mercilessly killing him though again one can't entirely condemn as he was
frequently burgled like you said. I imagine he was fed up of it.
Are you sure he got his sentance reduced? I must have missed that
John Rennie
> Le Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:57:45 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a
écrit :
>
> >> in the UK, Hugh. The use of 'lethal force' to protect life, is
> >> permitted. Using it to protect property, isn't.
>
> > Do you remember that case in the news about 2 or 3 years back I think
where
> > a man shot to death a 16 year old intruder and was sentenced to life for
> > murder? I was horrified until I heard the man emotionally tortured the
boy
> > before killing him in cold blood. I would be the last person to condemn
a
> > person for protecting his/her own property, but to torture and kill in
cold
> > blood like that is not acceptable.
>
> and who was given a life sentence ? No, I didn't know that he had
> tortured the young lad before shooting him, but am unfamiliar with
> the details of the case, anyway. Wasn't his sentence reduced to
> manslaughter recently ?
>
> Desmond Coughlan
He didn't do any torturing as such. He killed the boy who was running
away and then took no further action. That is he did not advise police
or ambulance services etc. He was threepence short of shilling so he
may not have known what to do.
Hugh Neary
<j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Apologies, One does occassionally get a little paranoid about word
selection in this group. A deathie can readily read any meaning into a
phrase when "the going get's tough". Having had to juggle my
phraseology round a few times to be more in keeping with Websters, I
do tend to get a little irritated at those that try to make English
language a more exact science than mathematics.
Please forgive me for leaping to the defensive.
>I'm happy with the explanation about the removal of
>health but less so with your concern about your
>property. If a mugger demanded my mobile and
>was prepared to use physical force, I would hand
>it over promptly. I don't give tuppence for 'things'
>- that obsession I leave to our American friends.
>If, however, my children, friends or the odd passerby's
>lives were in danger I hope I would act as you would
>if your mobile was threatened.
The trouble is, if you present a thief with your property once, he or
those of similar ilk will return. Ultimately they will have to be
stopped with appropriate force.
Needless to say if it were a one off mobile, I wouln't put
myself at the slightest risk for it. Unfortunately it never will be a
one off. The thief would eventually be back to me or someone else,
until stopped.
HN
>
>
Hugh Neary
<pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote:
>Le Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:13:28 +0100, Hugh Neary <spamstopper@net> a écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>>Huh! Would you therefore kill if someone attempted to
>>>steal your mobile if that was the 'level of force necessary'
>>>to prevent its removal?
>
>> Yes! By the time the level of force got to the "kill" bit though, the
>> mobile thief would have had plenty of opportunity to relinquish his
>> "toy". I certainly wouldn't happily wave him off down the street, if
>> that's what you expect. I would certainly be prepared to use a degree
>> of force to reclaim my property, and if that was met with force I
>> would ramp up as much as neccesary.
>
>Such an approach would (rightly) earn you a life sentence for murder
>in the UK, Hugh. The use of 'lethal force' to protect life, is
>permitted. Using it to protect property, isn't.
>
>{ snip }
The catchphrase was " if that was met with force I
would ramp up as much as neccesary"
This does not suggest that I would kill someone that came at me with a
loganberry for instance. Even an attack with a pointed stick would not
automatically drive me to kill the bloke.
The buzzword in the UK is reasonable force. This seems o/k to me as I
see revenge as one of the more base emotions of the human species.
HN
Hugh Neary
The chap should get a medal. At least he saved the NHS a few bob.
I would have thought his actions were reasonable, two burglars in a
darkened room.
I would have thought that even if guilty a suspended sentence would
have sent the appropriate message.
Didn't that killer [Noye?] get off scott free after killing a
policeman on his proberty after the Brinks Mat affair?
HN
incubus
"Hugh Neary" <spamstopper@net> wrote in message
> On Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:30:00 +0000, Desmond Coughlan
> <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote:
>
> >Le Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:13:28 +0100, Hugh Neary <spamstopper@net> a écrit
:
> >
> >{ snip }
> >
> >>>Huh! Would you therefore kill if someone attempted to
> >>>steal your mobile if that was the 'level of force necessary'
> >>>to prevent its removal?
> >
> >> Yes! By the time the level of force got to the "kill" bit though, the
> >> mobile thief would have had plenty of opportunity to relinquish his
> >> "toy". I certainly wouldn't happily wave him off down the street, if
> >> that's what you expect. I would certainly be prepared to use a degree
> >> of force to reclaim my property, and if that was met with force I
> >> would ramp up as much as neccesary.
> >
> >Such an approach would (rightly) earn you a life sentence for murder
> >in the UK, Hugh. The use of 'lethal force' to protect life, is
> >permitted. Using it to protect property, isn't.
> >
> >{ snip }
> The catchphrase was " if that was met with force I
> would ramp up as much as neccesary"
>
> This does not suggest that I would kill someone that came at me with a
> loganberry for instance. Even an attack with a pointed stick would not
> automatically drive me to kill the bloke.
Loganberry? You went to the same self defense class as me methinks. Did the
instructor look like John Cleese? :-)
>
> The buzzword in the UK is reasonable force. This seems o/k to me as I
> see revenge as one of the more base emotions of the human species.
If someone should break into my home i would find it very hard not to use
his head as a cricket ball. I would see that as reasonable force but i think
the police would disagree with me
>
> HN
incubus
"Hugh Neary" <spamstopper@net> wrote in message
killed a policeman?? I'm suprised they didn't hang him by the bollox until
dead
>
> HN
>
A Planet Visitor
"John Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:PfO19.110$U44.9379@newsfep2-gui...
Umm... I speak from 'experience' on both sides of
the Atlantic. And I can safety confirm that the average
American is monumentally less concerned with
'things' then the average European. In fact, it is
a source of great irritation to our European brethren,
when 'spiritual values,' are brought up by Americans.
Whether you agree with my analysis or not is immaterial,
since it represents my opinion. But I have NEVER met
a 'thinking man' who did not believe in a Creator.
Others may presume they ARE, by denying what
I see very clearly. But it is MY opinion that determines
how I view those I have met. And I find most of those
'thinking men' I do meet are little concerned with 'things.'
It is only when one views life in strict secular terms, that
'things' assume a greater importance, IMHO.
> If, however, my children, friends or the odd passerby's
> lives were in danger I hope I would act as you would
> if your mobile was threatened.
>
Quite rightly, IMHO.
PV
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:47:02 +0000
>
>Le Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:44:35 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>> He was threepence short of shilling so he may not have known what to
>> do.
>
>John, your fascination with LDB notwithstanding, do you _have_ to
>bring him into every thread ??!! :-(
>
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:47:02 +0000
>Organization: None
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:30:00 +0000
>
>Le Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:13:28 +0100, Hugh Neary <spamstopper@net> a écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>>Huh! Would you therefore kill if someone attempted to
>>>steal your mobile if that was the 'level of force necessary'
>>>to prevent its removal?
>
>> Yes! By the time the level of force got to the "kill" bit though, the
>> mobile thief would have had plenty of opportunity to relinquish his
>> "toy". I certainly wouldn't happily wave him off down the street, if
>> that's what you expect. I would certainly be prepared to use a degree
>> of force to reclaim my property, and if that was met with force I
>> would ramp up as much as neccesary.
>
>Such an approach would (rightly) earn you a life sentence for murder
>in the UK, Hugh. The use of 'lethal force' to protect life, is
>permitted. Using it to protect property, isn't.
>
>{ snip }
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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or-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:30:00 +0000
>Organization: None
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:11:08 +0000
>
>Le Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:57:45 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a écrit :
>
>
>>> Such an approach would (rightly) earn you a life sentence for murder
>>> in the UK, Hugh. The use of 'lethal force' to protect life, is
>>> permitted. Using it to protect property, isn't.
>
>> Do you remember that case in the news about 2 or 3 years back I think where
>> a man shot to death a 16 year old intruder and was sentenced to life for
>> murder? I was horrified until I heard the man emotionally tortured the boy
>> before killing him in cold blood. I would be the last person to condemn a
>> person for protecting his/her own property, but to torture and kill in cold
>> blood like that is not acceptable.
>
>That was the farmer who had been burgled Lord-knows how many times,
>and who was given a life sentence ? No, I didn't know that he had
>tortured the young lad before shooting him, but am unfamiliar with
>the details of the case, anyway. Wasn't his sentence reduced to
>manslaughter recently ?
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Love it or Leave it 1817
>Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:11:08 +0000
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John Rennie
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message news:25029.53337
"But I have NEVER met
a 'thinking man' who did not believe in a Creator"
Oh well. . .
John Rennie
"Hugh Neary" <spamstopper@net> wrote in message
Yes he did and I have never understood why.
He's in prison now but that's for killing somebody
else in a 'road rage' inccident. BTW thanks
for the generous apology above.
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Well it is a load of the mouldiest old arse grapes that you can imagine.
One of the few reservations that I entertain about PV is that he's a
god-botherer. No matter how much he protests, the preponderance of
evidence suggests that the universe came about by chance and that our
existence is utterly, utterly insignificant.
I'm just glad that it's come about 'cos I'm sitting in a nice house in
Waterloo (Sydney, Australia) with an ISO taster filled to just about the
right level with a Clare valley Riesling which has just a touch of
residual sugar about it but is otherwise very nice. If said coincidence
had not occurred, I would not be partaking of such a pleasure.
Mr Q. Z. D.
--
Drinker, systems administrator, wannabe writer, musician and all-round bastard.
"...Base 8 is just like base 10 really... ((o))
If you're missing two fingers." - Tom Lehrer ((O))
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
pasdespa...@zeouane.org wrote:
> Le Thu, 01 Aug 2002 21:43:14 +1000, Mr Q. Z. Diablo
> <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> a écrit :
>
> { snip LDB getting a 'gentle' slapping down, as is QZD's wont }
>
> > I'm just glad that it's come about 'cos I'm sitting in a nice house in
> > Waterloo (Sydney, Australia) with an ISO taster filled to just about
> > the
> > right level with a Clare valley Riesling which has just a touch of
> > residual sugar about it but is otherwise very nice. If said
> > coincidence
> > had not occurred, I would not be partaking of such a pleasure.
>
> Jon, watch my lips. You are a bastard.
Oh yessy, yessy, yessy yes. A pity that the renter of the house in
which I am sitting is out getting relatively anonymous sex. Being a
straight man, no such option exists where I am concerned.
Mr Q. Z. D., you mean you have to _talk_ to them??? You've got to be yanking my crank!
John Rennie
"Mr Q. Z. Diablo" <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> wrote in
message news:jonathan-50FA30...@news.pacific.net.au...
> In article <5x629.1036$Eq4....@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>, "John
> Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > "A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message news:25029.53337
> >
> > "But I have NEVER met
> > a 'thinking man' who did not believe in a Creator"
> >
> > Oh well. . .
>
> Well it is a load of the mouldiest old arse grapes that you can imagine.
> One of the few reservations that I entertain about PV is that he's a
> god-botherer. No matter how much he protests, the preponderance of
> evidence suggests that the universe came about by chance and that our
> existence is utterly, utterly insignificant.
First verses of Genesis and Big Bang theory - both are matters of belief
and frankly I think it is quite possible and reasonable to believe in both.
I don't but that's just me. PV's statement isn't to do with whether there
is a creator or not. His misfortune is that he hasn't met a "thinking man"
(sexist?) who did not believe in such an entity. Sad.
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
pasdespa...@zeouane.org wrote:
> Le Thu, 01 Aug 2002 22:21:28 +1000, Mr Q. Z. Diablo
> <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> >> Jon, watch my lips. You are a bastard.
>
> > Oh yessy, yessy, yessy yes. A pity that the renter of the house in
> > which I am sitting is out getting relatively anonymous sex. Being a
> > straight man, no such option exists where I am concerned.
>
> Erm ... why ?
>
> Surely Sydney has its fair share of good-looking, heterosexual women ...
> failing that, just pay one. :-)
The key word here is "anonymous", Des. You should realise, given my A.
experience, that I'm not into "anonymous", even if it is available in
heterosexual circles outside Erica Jong's fantasies.
Mr Q. Z. D.
JIGSAW1695
Message-id: <slrnaki94o.105d....@lievre.voute.net>
Le Thu, 01 Aug 2002 21:43:14 +1000, Mr Q. Z. Diablo
<jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> a écrit :
{ snip LDB getting a 'gentle' slapping down, as is QZD's wont }
> I'm just glad that it's come about 'cos I'm sitting in a nice house in
> Waterloo (Sydney, Australia) with an ISO taster filled to just about the
> right level with a Clare valley Riesling which has just a touch of
> residual sugar about it but is otherwise very nice. If said coincidence
> had not occurred, I would not be partaking of such a pleasure.
Jon, watch my lips. You are a bastard.
--
Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1
===============================
"Jon" hops on the next outbound flight and locates Dezi. For three days he
watchs Dezi's lips. Nothing happens. He gets back on a return flight home.
JIGSAW1695
Date: 8/1/2002 8:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <Ty929.2215$NE3....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>
==============================
Ah Dezi. I can see that you have never slept the night on the deck of a ship
far out at sea. The night is clear, the moon is down and there are ten million
stars in the sky. You see something streak across your vision? A comet? A
meteror?
Look up in awe and deny the existance of a being greater than yourself if you
dare*.
Jigsaw
*This paragraph does not constitute the belief or disbelief in any particular
religion, deity or system of worship.
JIGSAW1695
Date: 8/1/2002 11:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <slrnakiku9.10qq....@lievre.voute.net>
Le Wed, 31 Jul 2002 02:09:37 +0100, Hugh Neary <spamstopper@net> a écrit :
{ snip }
>>Such an approach would (rightly) earn you a life sentence for murder
>>in the UK, Hugh. The use of 'lethal force' to protect life, is
>>permitted. Using it to protect property, isn't.
> The catchphrase was " if that was met with force I
> would ramp up as much as neccesary"
The end result is the same : you are advocating killing someone, because
he tried to steal your mobile telephone. Let's see ... barely two hours
ago, I bought myself a nice, shiny new Discman, which set me back a
tad under 250 EUR. Say some scrote wanted to steal it ? Yes, I'd
try to stop him, but would not 'escalate' the matter to the stage where
either he or I was going to die for it. Discmans can be replaced. Lives
cannot.
{ snip }
> The buzzword in the UK is reasonable force. This seems o/k to me as I
> see revenge as one of the more base emotions of the human species.
I'd be interested to know what English law says about the degree of
force used, when one 'ramps up' the stakes. After all, if someone
nips into a parking space just before you do, you can tell him to get
out. What if he doesn't, do you 'ramp up' the force a little bit, and
then a little bit more ? You end up killing him, but that's OK, 'cos
you provoked him so much by 'ramp[ing] up' the force a bit more, and then
a bit more, and after all, he wouldn't get out of the parking space, and
when I insisted, he tried to hit me, so I stuck the handle-end of my
steel comb into his throat, but he wouldn't have died if he hadn't
nicked my parking space, can I go home now, m'lud ?
--
Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1
===============================
If you were in an English Court, you probably would be allowed to go home. But
since your are a French citizen and the incident would probably occur in
France, I see a bleak future.