Temple of Set goes down...
William Fellow
to me
directly from the Temple of Set's IV* only mailing list. Perhaps the
rest
of the Satanic Community might like to know that the Schrecks will
soon be
running the ToS show?
A little background info- The Chairman of the Council of Nine appoints
the
High Priest. Recently Bob Menschel (Shuti/Balanone)- who has served
as Chairman for many, many years, was ousted (as predicted by Mr.
Scratch) and replaced with James Lewis. Lewis is a Schreck supporter.
Begin forwarded message.........................
--- In TempleSet4@y..., setnakt@a... wrote:
To the Dwellers in the Sapphire Plain,
Greetings.
I am asking the Council to find a replacement for me by North
Solstice, and to leave office at the Helsinki Conclave. I offer these
suggestions to them in their Work. It should be remembered that the
job rests with the Chairman, and my own comments are not the law.
I think the High Priest should;
A. Understand that his/her agenda is not the Temple's. His/her
skill should be in seeing where the Temple is going, what the Prince
wants,
what is feasible, and blending the three.
B. Have enough charisma that he/she can be Dumbo's Feather for the
psyches of new I* and II* and make them believe in Xeper, and that we
are
the Vehicle for the Prince of Darkness
C. Have corporate and finical savvy, or the willingness to listen
those who do, so that the Temple can make its transition from
hand-to-mouth
to something that can buy real estate in fifty years.
D. Have Signs of Divine Election to office.
"D" is the mot important but hardest to quantify.
I feel it would be a good time to begin discussion of this matter
among the Masters. By the way my resignation is not a secret, but
please
show discretion in whom you tell.
Xeper.
Don Webb V*
CEO
---------------------------------------
--- In TempleSet4@y..., aruxet@p... wrote:
Dear Nobles,
Greetings from Germany!
My proposal and wish candidate for the office of the next High
Priest is Zeena.
Last years we all have seen a lot of changes. One of them is, that
the Temple of Set has become a international organization.
Zeena is familar not only with the TSæ„€ "mother country". Living in
Berlin, former years in Austria, she has many years of European
experience as well.
We are faced with ethnical particularities. With internationalization
of the TS the HP needs to be - more than ever before - a integration
person. I am confident: Zeena is.
The world outside is looking on the HP. Sometimes friendly, many
times not so friendly.
Therefore it is a big plus-point, to be material independant in the
profane business. Zeena is.
PR qualifications are needed as well. Zeena has - without doubt.
There are many female Setians. I think, it is a additional balanced
consideration, to get a High Priestess on the seat.
And last but not least: We all know of Zeenaæ„€ understanding and
dedication.
There are others among us, who can handle the seat. But by my
opinion we have no better candidate than Zeena.
XEPER.
AruXet, IV*
circe
> Dear Nobles,
>
> Greetings from Germany!
>
> My proposal and wish candidate for the office of the next High
> Priest is Zeena.
>
> Last years we all have seen a lot of changes. One of them is, that
> the Temple of Set has become a international organization.
>
> Zeena is familar not only with the TSæ„€ "mother country". Living in
> Berlin, former years in Austria, she has many years of European
> experience as well.
>
> We are faced with ethnical particularities. With internationalization
> of the TS the HP needs to be - more than ever before - a integration
> person. I am confident: Zeena is.
>
> The world outside is looking on the HP. Sometimes friendly, many
> times not so friendly.
>
> Therefore it is a big plus-point, to be material independant in the
> profane business. Zeena is.
>
> PR qualifications are needed as well. Zeena has - without doubt.
>
> There are many female Setians. I think, it is a additional balanced
> consideration, to get a High Priestess on the seat.
>
> And last but not least: We all know of Zeenaæ„€ understanding and
> dedication.
Of all the people in the satanic community that truly deserve to be titled
as High Priestess it would be Zeena and her sister Karla. I hope Zeena is
the next High Priestess with the ToS and that Karla will take back what is
rightfully hers and has always been and someday in the near future be the
High Priestess of the CoS. The CoS has always belonged to Karla, Anton
LaVey's oldest daughter. I think with the proper leadership the CoS can once
again be what Anton LaVey intended it to be. Right now it is an online
circus and everything Anton LaVey worked for is slowly and surely being
cheapened and destroyed under the current leadership. It is sad.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Dr. Michael A. Aquino
Hash: SHA1
In article <8dbfab8b.01111...@posting.google.com>,
will_...@hotmail.com (William Fellow) wrote:
>I thought you might find this information interesting.
>It's forwarded to me directly from the Temple of Set's IV*
>only mailing list.
No, it's not forwarded to you by the list, because only
IV*+ Initiates of the Temple are members of the list.
Evidently the list was hacked, and you are exploiting
the hacking, both of which actions are unsurprisingly
representative of the caliber of person the Temple of
Set rejects/ejects.
>Perhaps the rest of the Satanic Community might like
>to know that the Schrecks will soon be running the
>ToS show?
An unsupported conclusion, as detailed below.
>A little background info- The Chairman of the Council
>of Nine appoints the High Priest.
You did not mention that at least six out of the nine
members of the Council of Nine must vote to approve
any nomination to the High Priesthood.
You also did not mention that any such appointment,
as in the past, is preceded by several months of
informal discussion among all the Masters of the
Temple (IV*+), in which of course the nine
Councillors participate, as does the current High
Priest, for that matter. While the Chairman of the
Council has formal nominating responsibility,
his decision will normally reflect what he perceives
to be the developing consensus of the Masters.
>Recently Bob Menschel (Shuti/Balanone)- who
>has served as Chairman for many, many years,
>was ousted ...
Again a falsehood. The Chairmanship of the Council
has a 1-year term of office, and each year the Council
votes to confirm its Chairman for the next year. There
is no privilege on the basis of current tenure of the
office in this process.
Until recently the High Priest nominated a prospective
Chairman to the Council for its approval/disapproval
each year. However the By-Laws now provide that
the Council nominate and vote-confirm its own
Chairman (the term refers to either sex), as a
continuing decentralization of the Temple's
organizational decision-making.
Magister Menschel served as a Councillor many
years before the terms of his Chairmanship,
served with great distinction as Chairman for
many terms [and completed all of them], and
continues to serve as a Councillor at this time.
>(as predicted by Mr. Scratch)
Craig "Mr. Scratch" Hunt tends to be dramatic about
policies or events in the Temple of Set which reflect
the ethical standards which he as a Priest of Set was
unable to uphold himself. However, as noted here,
there is nothing at all unusual, or conspiratorial, about
the Temple of Set's High Priesthood deliberation process.
>Lewis is a Schreck supporter.
Ipsissimus Lewis has been a member of the Temple of
Set since the time of its founding a quarter-century ago,
and has served much of that time as a Councillor, to
include several terms as Chairman himself. I think it
is fair to say that he likes and respects Magister and
Magistra Schreck - just as he likes and respects the
other Masters of the Temple. Whom he may eventually
nominate to the Council for the High Priesthood will
be a decision he can be relied upon to make with the
due attention to and consideration of the counsel of
other Masters that has characterized him these
many decades.
You went on to quote the current High Priest's
[again private] comments to the Masters concerning
his own tenure - comments which certainly stand
on their own as to his integrity and leadership.
[Your violation of his privacy here, however, speaks
again to your own lack of ethics.]
Finally you went on to quote one Master's
[again private] recommendation to all of his
fellow Masters that Magistra Zeena Schreck be
considered for the High Priesthood. You did not
mention that other names have also been
proposed - which they have been - because that
wouldn't fit very well with your attempted
distortions as I have exposed and corrected above.
Could Zeena Schreck become the next High Priestess
of the Temple of Set? Indeed she could, *if* that is
the eventual consensus of the Masters, *if* the
Chairman concludes that she is appropriate to
nominate, and *if* the Council then votes to confirm
her. Or the same processes might just as routinely
result in the selection of another Master for the High
Priesthood.
The corporate By-Laws of the Temple of Set, which
require and detail such procedures, were first
instituted in 1975 and have been the legal
backbone of the Temple since that time. As
further developed over the years, they have
represented the best judgment of all the Priesthood
of Set who have fashioned and collectively voted
them into existence. We are indeed proud of them
and the standards they preserve.
If there is annoyance to be felt here, it is simply
that we must occasionally put up with people like
the hacker of the Masters' list, and people like you
who attempt to pervert in crude and spiteful ways
the results of such hacking. But that kind of cheap
behavior is unfortunately nothing new or novel on
this poor planet of ours.
Michael Aquino
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IX Corp
Dr. Michael A. Aquino <xe...@aol.com> wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>In article <8dbfab8b.01111...@posting.google.com>,
>will_...@hotmail.com (William Fellow) wrote:
>
>>I thought you might find this information interesting.
>>It's forwarded to me directly from the Temple of Set's IV*
>>only mailing list.
>
>No, it's not forwarded to you by the list, because only
>IV*+ Initiates of the Temple are members of the list.
>Evidently the list was hacked, and you are exploiting
>the hacking, both of which actions are unsurprisingly
>representative of the caliber of person the Temple of
>Set rejects/ejects.
*pppppfffffffff*
While formatting your server's winchesters or back-oroficing one of your
IV*+'s confusers would be no great feat for even a jolt-cola and dorito
level propellorhead, I find it amusing you discount the possibility that
one of your little role playing pals may have failed to exercise all the
discretion you wish them to due to a "chaotic evil" ethics roll.
I wonder if, perhaps, your little j'accuse of hackery may not be a
displacement on your part. Guilty conscience Mikey?
>>Recently Bob Menschel (Shuti/Balanone)- who
>>has served as Chairman for many, many years,
>>was ousted ...
>
>Again a falsehood. The Chairmanship of the Council
>has a 1-year term of office, and each year the Council
>votes to confirm its Chairman for the next year. There
>is no privilege on the basis of current tenure of the
>office in this process.
Of course, the fact remains that, "Bob Menschel (Shuti/Balanone)- who
has served as Chairman for many, many years, was ousted ..."
Funny, Mr. Scratch seems to have predicted that well enough.
And I quote:
"The upper levels of the ToS are a page straight out of the history of
the Court of Versailles -- with subtle attacks made on rivals, attempts to
undermine one another's spheres of influence, and to cast one another
into positions of private disgrace. Your leadership is currently locked in
a struggle for power, with the Schrecks and the Aquinos vying to remove
High Priest Don Webb from his position. Who knows why Webb must be
replaced...perhaps it is because he has stretched out tenuous diplomatic
feelers to the officials of the Church of Satan, in order to end the
idiotic conflict that has existed between these two organizations.
Certainly that would inspire the ire of both attacking parties.
Information I consider reliable has it that Nikolas Schreck has expressed
that he would not be opposed to any coup placing him in the position of
High Priest. Robert Menschel, who has stubbornly fought any such nonsense
under his watch, may soon find his days as Chairman of the Council of Nine
numbered, if he isn't removed from the Temple entirely by then."
>>(as predicted by Mr. Scratch)
>
>Craig "Mr. Scratch" Hunt tends to be dramatic about
>policies or events in the Temple of Set which reflect
>the ethical standards which he as a Priest of Set was
>unable to uphold himself. However, as noted here,
>there is nothing at all unusual, or conspiratorial, about
>the Temple of Set's High Priesthood deliberation process.
None of which seems to change the fact that Mr. Scratch's prediction has
come true.
Ha, fucking ha.
>You went on to quote the current High Priest's
>[again private] comments to the Masters concerning
>his own tenure - comments which certainly stand
>on their own as to his integrity and leadership.
Sure.
Of course, you guys will likely ignore his wise advice and elect one of
the Dubins to represent anyway.
>[Your violation of his privacy here, however, speaks
>again to your own lack of ethics.]
Talk of privacy coming from you? Well; that's pretty fuckin' ironic,
ain't it Mikey?
>Finally you went on to quote one Master's
>[again private] recommendation to all of his
>fellow Masters that Magistra Zeena Schreck be
>considered for the High Priesthood.
By the way, Mikey. If it is 'Scott "Lupo" Locklin' and 'Craig "Mr.
Scratch" Hunt' then it is most assuredly, 'Barry "Nicholas Schreck" Dubin'
and 'Zeena "Schreck" Dubin.' Since you're allegedly concerned about
accuracy and such, and that people aren't entitled to pseudonyms, let's
endeavor to be consistant at least.
>Could Zeena Schreck become the next High Priestess
>of the Temple of Set?
Brother Lupo will await the smoke from the Setian Vatican. Or at least
amuse himself with the thought of the smoke coming out of your ears.
Personally, Zeena has my vote. I have heard of her 'talents' from a couple
of friends of mine. Rebecca Lance has a better rack of jahoobies of
course, but we don't need to tell Zeena that. Plus, Zeena is a LaVey, and
if Uncle Anton were alive, he might enjoy the irony of his little
princess-pie getting her wish to be high-satanic princess afterall,
and at the expense of his enemy.
Brother Lupo's vote ought to be pretty important to you guys, since he is
your most realistic, immediate and apparently frightening mythological
being.
>The corporate By-Laws of the Temple of Set, which
>require and detail such procedures, were first
>instituted in 1975 and have been the legal
>backbone of the Temple since that time. As
>further developed over the years, they have
>represented the best judgment of all the Priesthood
>of Set who have fashioned and collectively voted
>them into existence. We are indeed proud of them
>and the standards they preserve.
Funny how the "Prince of Darkness" is supposed to manifest itself
in a two-bit clubby playhouse with "corporate by-laws." One would think
the most mighty deity in the cosmos would at least chose to manifest
itself in the Microsoft corporation or some such thing, rather than in a
Helsinki Ramada Inn or majordomo e-list or whatnot.
Sorry I couldn't make it this year, by the way. I don't think they have
Strip-o-grams there anyway.
>If there is annoyance to be felt here,
"If it weren't for you meddling kids..."
>that we must occasionally put up with people like
>the hacker of the Masters' list, and people like you
>who attempt to pervert in crude and spiteful ways
>the results of such hacking.
What's so crude and spiteful about telling the truth?
Oh, nevermind: I forgot who I was addressing for a minute there.
> But that kind of cheap behavior is unfortunately nothing new or novel on
>this poor planet of ours.
*wrist to forehead*
OH, THE WORLD OF HORRORS!!!!!!!!!
Azrael, let us repair to the cinnabun and drown ourselves in the blackness
and eternal woe!
*everyone's favorite 7 foot tall, green-skinned, skulls dangling from his
hair, slavering hombre*
-Lupowski
"Everybody has a right to be stupid, but some people abuse the privelege."
-Josef Stalin <i...@pentagon.io.com>
People's Commissar
"IX Corp" <i...@bermuda.io.com> wrote in message
news:5%KJ7.22253$4m.14...@news2.aus1.giganews.com...
> "Everybody has a right to be stupid, but some people abuse the privelege."
> -Josef Stalin <i...@pentagon.io.com>
Where did he say that?
TJ
Ygraine
> > > And last but not least: We all know of Zeena´s understanding and
> > dedication.
>
>
> Of all the people in the satanic community that truly deserve to be titled
> as High Priestess it would be Zeena and her sister Karla. I hope Zeena is
> the next High Priestess with the ToS and that Karla will take back what is
> rightfully hers and has always been and someday in the near future be the
> High Priestess of the CoS. The CoS has always belonged to Karla, Anton
> LaVey's oldest daughter. I think with the proper leadership the CoS can once
> again be what Anton LaVey intended it to be. Right now it is an online
> circus and everything Anton LaVey worked for is slowly and surely being
> cheapened and destroyed under the current leadership. It is sad.
>
FYI: Long before Dr. LaVey died, he stated publicly, in The Black
Flame, that his son was his hier. HPS Blanche Barton was already
acting as and named as the High Priestess.
Obviously LaVey himself did not want either of his daughters acting as
leaders in the Church of Satan. This nonsense..."what LaVey intended"
is proven wrong by LaVey's own words and deeds.
Nancy, who hasn't the 34 cents to mail a formal resignation to the
CoS, but who is so far out of the loop as to be in another universe,
knows nothing of the current workings in the CoS. She and her ilk are
so ego-driven (and simultaneously deprived) that they choose to
believe that because they have ruined their chances within the CoS by
their own stupidity, the CoS is suffering.
We're not. We are thrilled with our High Priest! We deeply respect
our High Priestess, and adore our founder's son. We love our Magistra
Templi Rex, without reservations. We, who are blessed to be included,
laugh at others who claim that because they aren't in it, it must be
degraded.
There is no need to take my word for it, of course. The evidence is
available to those who can see, and those who can't don't belong
anyway. No harm,no foul.
If Zeena becomes HP of the ToS, well, more power to her. If Karla and
her 3 minute church do well, again, goody for her. We KNOW, based on
the words and deeds of the man himself, what Dr. LaVey wanted for his
church, and we're delighted that we want the same thing.
Support LaVey's daughters if you wish, but realize they have nothing
to do with what LaVey wanted for the Church of Satan.
Peter Gilmore is our High Priest. Blanche Barton is our High
Priestess. Peggy Nadramia is our Mgistra Templi Rex. This is what
WE, those in the CoS, want, and that is all that matters.
Ygraine
Kevin Filan
"Dr. Michael A. Aquino" <xe...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011118024846...@nso-mm.aol.com...
Shut up, Childfucker. Nobody gave you permission to speak.
Peace
Kevin Filan
- wolf -
news:990b22b8.01111...@posting.google.com...
>
> FYI: Long before Dr. LaVey died, he stated publicly, in The Black
> Flame, that his son was his hier.
Our news server is acting up these days, so I wonder when this gets posted.
I'll try anyway: which issue was that?
> We KNOW, based on
> the words and deeds of the man himself, what Dr. LaVey wanted for his
> church,
Which included deeds such as throwing Ygraine and spouse out of it.
- wolf -
circe
"- wolf -" <wo...@blazingangles-nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3bf811cb$0$87752$edfa...@dspool01.news.tele.dk...
> "Ygraine" <ldyygr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:990b22b8.01111...@posting.google.com...
> >
> > FYI: Long before Dr. LaVey died, he stated publicly, in The Black
> > Flame, that his son was his hier.
>
> Our news server is acting up these days, so I wonder when this gets
posted.
> I'll try anyway: which issue was that?
>
> > We KNOW, based on
> > the words and deeds of the man himself, what Dr. LaVey wanted for his
> > church,
FYI, LaVey gave people their titles based their on deeds and acheivements,
where as you got yours like everyone else is now by simply being " dear
friends" with the self appointed heirarchy! Big difference my dear,and a big
difference as far as any respectibility goes too now. I have had you
killfiled since your vulgar trailor trashy post to myself and I simply saw
that wolf pointed out some very valid issues concerning the current CoS. You
should also be aware that if Karla really wanted it, she would have no
problem support wise or financially in regaining what is rightfully hers and
was taken from her during a very vulnerable time in her life. Now choke on
that and quote LaVey a few times and you just might convince a few mindless
idiots that you actually have any kind of power!
Kori Houghton
> I thought you might find this information interesting. It's forwarded
> to me
> directly from the Temple of Set's IV* only mailing list. Perhaps the
> rest
> of the Satanic Community might like to know that the Schrecks will
> soon be
> running the ToS show?
Thanks for sharing this. It *is* interesting! After reading this
thru I'm not convinced that the Schrecks will be (as you put it)
running the show. What I am wondering is who wants to "run the show"
using the Schrecks as a front....
>
> A little background info- The Chairman of the Council of Nine appoints
> the
> High Priest. Recently Bob Menschel (Shuti/Balanone)- who has served
> as Chairman for many, many years, was ousted (as predicted by Mr.
> Scratch) and replaced with James Lewis.
Mr. Scratch scores, yet again!
> Lewis is a Schreck supporter.
>
> Begin forwarded message.........................
> --- In TempleSet4@y..., setnakt@a... wrote:
> To the Dwellers in the Sapphire Plain,
>
> Greetings.
>
> I am asking the Council to find a replacement for me by North
> Solstice, and to leave office at the Helsinki Conclave. I offer these
> suggestions to them in their Work. It should be remembered that the
> job rests with the Chairman, and my own comments are not the law.
>
> I think the High Priest should;
>
> A. Understand that his/her agenda is not the Temple's. His/her
> skill should be in seeing where the Temple is going, what the Prince
> wants,
> what is feasible, and blending the three.
>
> B. Have enough charisma that he/she can be Dumbo's Feather for the
> psyches of new I* and II* and make them believe in Xeper, and that we
> are
> the Vehicle for the Prince of Darkness
Hmmm... is there a "1B" category, for who takes the role of J. Cricket
singing WHEN YOU WISH UPON A STAR? LMAO Seriously, it begins to make
some sense why the ToS has been playing down information toys for the
braindead consumer (ie, the internet) when (according to our informant
here) the High Priest of Set resorts to Disney cartoon characters for
imagery. To me he has always reminded me of a cartoon character
himself: Baby Huey.
NB all prospective applicants to the ToS: the High Priest/ess is
supposed to be instrumental in "mak[ing] you believe in Xeper"!!!
Like, er, Set and Xeper aren't there to be encountered for oneself?
So, if what you aspire to Become is a "believer", send in your
application today!
>
> C. Have corporate and finical savvy, or the willingness to listen
> those who do, so that the Temple can make its transition from
> hand-to-mouth
> to something that can buy real estate in fifty years.
Good Plan. We all know how well the Schrecks do with handling money
and (especially!) real estate. Zeena, you go, girl!
>
> D. Have Signs of Divine Election to office.
>
> "D" is the mot important but hardest to quantify.
"When you wish upon a star....."
>
> I feel it would be a good time to begin discussion of this matter
> among the Masters. By the way my resignation is not a secret, but
> please
> show discretion in whom you tell.
>
> Xeper.
>
> Don Webb V*
> CEO
> ---------------------------------------
> --- In TempleSet4@y..., aruxet@p... wrote:
> Dear Nobles,
>
> Greetings from Germany!
>
> My proposal and wish candidate for the office of the next High
> Priest is Zeena.
>
> Last years we all have seen a lot of changes.
Ya know, I've often seen more profound statements inside greeting
cards. As a non-Setian, I want to see changes. It's, like, part of,
as they say, Becoming.
One of them is, that
> the Temple of Set has become a international organization.
>
> Zeena is familar not only with the TSæ„€ "mother country". Living in
> Berlin, former years in Austria, she has many years of European
> experience as well.
And while there, she demonstrated her abilities to A) postpone her
personal gratification to work towards a long term goal shared with
others; B) be an inspiration to her peers and subordinates; C) manage
finanical affairs with discipline and business acumen; D) keep
everybody wondering what was so wrong with ToS that Zeena kept getting
promoted. (see note attributed to High Priest Webb above) Yeah,
right?
>
> We are faced with ethnical particularities. With internationalization
> of the TS the HP needs to be - more than ever before - a integration
> person. I am confident: Zeena is.
>
> The world outside is looking on the HP. Sometimes friendly, many
> times not so friendly.
"Life always has a funny side, so keep looking on the sunny
side...when you're up to your neck in hot water be like the kettle and
sing."
>
> Therefore it is a big plus-point, to be material independant in the
> profane business. Zeena is.
>
> PR qualifications are needed as well. Zeena has - without doubt.
>
> There are many female Setians. I think, it is a additional balanced
> consideration, to get a High Priestess on the seat.
Yo, Lupo! With Zeena as HP of ToS, the group will have an easier (!)
time attracting *chicks* who wanna be just like her!
>
> And last but not least: We all know of Zeenaæ„€ understanding and
> dedication.
>
> There are others among us, who can handle the seat. But by my
> opinion we have no better candidate than Zeena.
>
> XEPER.
>
> AruXet, IV*
Hey, I hope Zeena gets the job. There's a good reason why the Dark
Prince, as manifested to the Aztecs, had the title THE ENEMY OF BOTH
SIDES.
Kori (unaffiliated)
Dr. Michael A. Aquino
Hash: SHA1
ldyygr...@yahoo.com (Ygraine) wrote:
>FYI: Long before Dr. LaVey died, he stated publicly, in
>The Black Flame, that his son was his hier.
This would be relevant to the "Church of Satan" only
insofar as Anton [per his bankruptcy court sworn
statement] was officially no longer maintaining
the "Church" as a corporation, but was in fact
operating it as his personal sole proprietorship
business. In that case he could will it to Satan
Xerxes, but I don't recall hearing of a legal document
in which he did that.
Unless he did, and considering that he was not married
to Sharon Densley, under California law his personal
property would be subject to court division among
his surviving children: Karla, Zeena, and [assuming
that Anton formally adopted him] Satan X.
If, however, the official contention is that Anton lied
under oath in both the Superior and Bankruptcy courts
when he swore that the "Church" was first a Partnership
with Diane, then his Sole Proprietorship business, then he
had no power at all to turn over control of the corporation
to Satan X. Per its 9/20/71 California corporate articles,
in the event of his death the CEOship (High Priest) would
pass to the High Priestess (a separate/powerless position).
In that case the question is whether a corporate document
under Anton's signature exists naming Sharon Densley as
"High Priestess". If so, then she would have become
"High Priest"/CEO upon his death. If no such document
exists, then the corporation is officially in limbo until a
court decides this matter.
I recall [but am not completely certain] that immediately
after Anton's death Densley claimed the title of "High Priest"
for herself, with "High Priestess" given to Karla LaVey.
While that sounds odd, it simply reflects the fact, obviously
known to Densley, that if the corporation continues to
exist, it is 100% under the control of the "High Priest",
while the "High Priestess" is, as before, a legally-powerless
title. Densley wanted all the ownership in her own hands,
while Karla was welcome as long as she was content to
remain just window-dressing.
And again, if Densley were corporate CEO, Satan Xerxes
has no right of inheritance at all, unless his mother were
to appoint him "High Priestess".
>Obviously LaVey himself did not want either of
>his daughters acting as leaders in the Church of Satan.
>This nonsense..."what LaVey intended"
>is proven wrong by LaVey's own words and deeds.
What formal or legal statement did Anton issue
either disinheriting Zeena or accepting her corporate
resignation as High Priestess of the C/S?
What formal or legal statement did Anton issue
either disinheriting Karla or barring her from any
office in the C/S corporation?
>We are thrilled with our High Priest! We deeply
>respect our High Priestess, and adore our founder's son.
>We love our Magistra Templi Rex, without reservations.
>We, who are blessed to be included, laugh at others
>who claim that because they aren't in it, it must be
>degraded.
As I understand it, the current claim is that Peter
Gilmore is now High Priest, Densley is High Priestess,
and Peggy Nadramia is Magister Templi Rex.
If so, that means [again to the extent that the
corporation has legal existence] that it is now
100% under the legal control of Peter Gilmore,
with Densley completely without any authority.
And of course the "MTR" position is without
authority as well. Congratulations to Peter, who
has the whole enchilada in his personal pocket.
>If Karla and her 3 minute church do well, again,
>goody for her.
In the long run, a reformed, returned-to-original
Church of Satan headed by Karla has the only hope
of recovering some of the dignity and sincerity of
the historic Church, to say nothing of Anton's own
image and legacy. However that will probably not
happen until the Densley/Gilmore charade twitches
away; because until it does, it will continue to
poison the well for everything connected with the
names of Anton LaVey and the Church of Satan.
>Peter Gilmore is our High Priest. Blanche Barton
>is our High Priestess. Peggy Nadramia is our Mgistra
>Templi Rex. This is what WE, those in the CoS, want,
>and that is all that matters.
History lesson #43: "Magister Templi Rex"
Anton added this title to the 1971 corporate articles as
an "emergency" succession measure in case he & Diane
happened to be in the same plane crash, etc. At that
time Anton and I were working on the degree system,
and had changed the original single IV* of "Magister"
to the two-level designations of Magister Caverni IV*-I'
("Master of the Cavern") (comparable to a bishop -
supervising a group of local Grottos) and Magister
Templi IV*-II' ("Master of the Temple) (comparable to
an archbishop - supervising a number of Caverns).
"Magister Templi Rex" was Anton's working idea
for the senior Magister Templi. [Latin was also
not one of Anton's strong points; hence it's a
garblephrase.]
In 1972, when we finalized the degree system, the
term MTR had been dispensed with [and does not
appear in the _Articles of Protocol_ and _Cloven
Hoof_ articles describing the degree system accordingly].
Instead Anton and I had gone on to work out a three-
tier system, with the IV*-III' being that of Magister
Augustus ("Grand Master") (comparable to a cardinal -
supervising a number of Temples).
Bear in mind that these were long-range-development
concepts, which we did not expect to need for
several years until the Church expanded to require
them.
In its final year of 1975, Anton had appointed only
four persons to IV*-I' (John Ferro, Charles Steenbarger,
Tony Fazzini, and myself), and of those only one
(myself) to IV*-II'. The IV*-III' was not expected to be
needed for quite some time yet. I did not use the
title "Magister Templi Rex" because it was several
years' obsolete, except that Anton had not yet
bothered to amend the corporate articles accordingly.
If Peggy Nadramia wishes to parade around with that
title today, it's at least no more silly than her husband
calling himself "High Priest" and Densley herself
"High Priestess". However she should at least get the
Latin case endings right and call herself "Magistra
Templi *Reginae*" - although, as with the original
MTR, the phrase is still screwed up and would come
out something like "Mistress of the Queenly Temple"!
Every so often I am reminded that some people are
descended from the apes who *didn't* touch the
monolith ...
Michael Aquino
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Anonymous
>
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> Hash: SHA1
Hello Mikey. Doesn't this all boil down to the fact that you are not at
the head of the CoS? That you have no influence over the CoS? That even
though you declared to the world that the CoS was defunct it still
thrives? That YOUR living legacy to Satanism is that YOU are the ONLY
prominent Satanic figure to have ever been implicated and accused in an
SRA SEXUAL ABUSE case? Some say that you may have helped to promote
admitted pedophile Lord Egan and his FCoS in order to divert attention
from you and your misadventures at Presidio. Stranger things have come
from your way.
______________________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = http://www.binaries.net
Kevin Filan
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>
> ldyygr...@yahoo.com (Ygraine) wrote:
>
> >FYI: Long before Dr. LaVey died, he stated publicly, in
> >The Black Flame, that his son was his hier.
>
> This would be relevant to the "Church of Satan" only
> insofar as Anton [per his bankruptcy court sworn
> statement] was officially no longer maintaining
> the "Church" as a corporation, but was in fact
> operating it as his personal sole proprietorship
> business. In that case he could will it to Satan
> Xerxes, but I don't recall hearing of a legal document
> in which he did that.
You should check your file of "Anton LaVey Legal Documents." It's probably
between some pages that got stuck together.
> If so, that means [again to the extent that the
> corporation has legal existence] that it is now
> 100% under the legal control of Peter Gilmore,
> with Densley completely without any authority.
> And of course the "MTR" position is without
> authority as well. Congratulations to Peter, who
> has the whole enchilada in his personal pocket.
Hey, relax, Molester-Boy. Pretty soon you're going to have your very own
LaVey as a High Priestess... and won't that be fun?
I for one can't wait. "Lord, make my enemies ridiculous..." and all that.
> In the long run, a reformed, returned-to-original
> Church of Satan headed by Karla has the only hope
> of recovering some of the dignity and sincerity of
> the historic Church, to say nothing of Anton's own
> image and legacy. However that will probably not
> happen until the Densley/Gilmore charade twitches
> away; because until it does, it will continue to
> poison the well for everything connected with the
> names of Anton LaVey and the Church of Satan.
1975: Michael Aquino declares Church of Satan dead.
1990: Michael Aquino declares Church of Satan dead.
1997: Michael Aquino declares Church of Satan dead.
2001: Michael Aquino declares that damned Densley/Gilmore charade is going
to kick the bucket any day now.
They didn't call you back up for active duty after September 11, did they?
Now then, as I said earlier:
Les Masters
Anonymous
Grow some "balls" Les? Why don't YOU ask Michael A. Aquino about
allegations that he sexually molested male children at the Presideo Day
Care Center or is THAT a little too touchy for YOU?
Q: What do Mikey Aquino and Michael Jackson have in common?
A: Cindy Lauper song.
Hint for the idiots: money changes everything.
Les Masters
Even your unnamed post show what a SUCK ASS you are!
Lou Foncais
> Grow some "balls" Les? Why don't YOU ask Michael A. Aquino about
> allegations that he sexually molested male children at the Presideo Day
> Care Center or is THAT a little too touchy for YOU?
Oh puh-LEEZ!
What the heck are you bringing that up for? it's been debunked more
times than clever Hans has AND if you want to take a pot-shot at Dr.
Aquino why don't you look into what that latest thing (with an electic
company or something) was all about, huhn? At least that is something
new and not exactly known about.
Heck, I'm clueless about the whole thing, and wouldn't mind hearing
what the accusation was all about. It was mentioned in passing once
and I never really paid much attention to it but am now wondering
about it.
The Presidio thing? Get over it. Move on to something (anything) with
actual value in it. Here's a research project for you, lets see if you
can tell me something I don't already know about the cursed Inomendum
pylon.
I dare ya.
In fact, I double dare ya.
*Louis*
Dr. Michael A. Aquino
Hash: SHA1
clue...@hotmail.com (Lou Foncais) wrote:
>that latest thing (with an electic company or
>something) was all about, huhn? At least that is
>something new and not exactly known about.
I think you're referring to my lawsuit against
the Internet Service Provider Electriciti.com.
Posts from the cyberstalker "Curio" were traced
to this ISP, and I requested it to identify the account
holder in question. It refused, so I sued it to force
disclosure of the name. The court ruled in favor of
ecom's motion to have the case dismissed on the
grounds that the federal Communications Decency
Act immunizes ISPs from all lawsuits deriving from
the conduct of account-holders, and that was that.
Later on "Curio" was identified as one Diana Napolis,
a longtime "SRA" dingdong, by the by the San Diego State
University Police. In August 2001, as reprinted by Alex
Constantine, she reappeared on Usenet:
"In November 2000 I experienced someone making
internal/psychic contact with me. In March 2001, I
experienced being abducted from my home via an
unknown technology. My life then drastically changed.
"In approximately January 2001 a beeping sound began
in my left ear and I was continually monitored in some
way. Due to lack of sleep I was unable to work full time.
I was then accessed by something of unknown origin and
I made willing contact with it. During the months of May
and July 2001 changes were made to my body and
internal structure. For a short time I experienced these
changes as potentially positive in nature.
"I then experienced something akin to what I had been
researching - a mind control program of unknown origin
that was installed in my mind. I heard low chanting sounding
music in the left hemisphere of my brain and 'heavenly'
music in my right hemisphere. I was told I was in the Heaven
and Hell program. I began 'channeling' a group of people
or entities. I was subjected to various 'tests' and I was
involved in a great deal of telepathic activity.
"It appears that there were competing forces at work
within me and a struggle began involving extraterrestrial
intelligences. I was told this and I experienced it. I found
that I was 'judged' within their system and sentenced to
'Hell' within their computer system. My energy field
changed and my heart began behaving abnormally.
My digestive system was impacted and I became thinner
and thinner. What I originally thought was positive
contact quickly became something else. I went to several
hospitals trying to discover if assistance could be provided.
I discovered that the medical mainstream community
provided no answers or positive intervention.
"As of August 13, 2001, my state of health has now
deteriorated to a point that it is difficult to function.
"I was led to believe that there were a group of competing
extraterrestrials occupying the earth and they had
somewhat different motivatons -- but perhaps similar
means to the end.
"I believe that this poses a significant threat to our world
and I would ask all to reconsider what it really means to
have 'alien' contact. I urge all parties of interest in this
phonemona in any form or fashion to realize that the
human race is special because of the qualities which
we can bring to our service to others and grow as
beings in the spirit of love, compassion, strength
and wisdom.
"I believe that my state of health, which is deteriorating
rapidly, is directly related to technology of unknown
origin which has impacted my system and poses a
threat to others.
"If anyone experiences psychic phenomena of unknown
phenomena, I would urge all parties to not trust the
message of the original contact. I have discovered that
high-tech virtual reality is being used and psychological
manipulation is used to try to take control of and destroy
others. I also experienced an extraction of my
internal substances.
"What's of particular concern about this is that in some
of this imagery there are real consequences if acted
upon. It appears that there is a computer program in
which some of the ET's believe they are Gods and
they are collecting souls.
"I consider this a grave threat to society and other
people need to be informed."
* * * * *
I suppose this proves the oft-suspected alliance between
Satanists and aliens. Harass us too much and you too will
be sucked up into a flying saucer and anally probed.
Michael Aquino
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The Honorable Judge Ludvig Prinn
>can tell me something I don't already know about the cursed Inomendum
>pylon.
Tell me about this. I hadn't heard.
_____________________________________
"Trauma is the engine of Initiation" - Lud
"You are a sickening, twisted THING - NOT a person, NOT HUMAN!"-Metadromos
"You MONSTER! DIE! DIE!" - Mina Pell
Ludvig Prinn
Worker of Miracles
Purveyor, Fine Used Souls
The Honorable Judge Ludvig Prinn
>can tell me something I don't already know about the cursed Inomendum
>pylon.
Tell me about this. I hadn't heard.
Robert the Merciless
concerned about Zeena's name being tossed in the ToS leadership ring.
Sounds like fun to me. She gets my vote. Please take my endorsement
as precisely the Divine Selection for which the ToS council is
looking. Its likely to be as close as you get.
Honestly, Dr. Aquino, don't you get a little tired of yammering on
about who does or does not own that pissant, tomatoe stand of a
business known as the Church of Satan? About whether it is or is not
square with probate or whatever? Do the fucking math! As a business,
it sucks. Who cares who owns it? It's only value is in the
poetic/psychological/mythological value it holds in the minds of
Satanists. This is, of course, quite immense and largely IRRELEVANT
to the trivialities of the California business law (which you seem to
practice without a license to a nearly fanatical degree.)
Henry Kissinger once said that the conflicts in academia were so
strident because the rewards were so small. Indeed. As seats of
power, the High Priesthood of either the CoS or the ToS seems hardly
worth being overly concerned about. Maybe its more important in the
ToS since you have all of that tiresome and illusionary hierarchy and
posturing to maintain. I know you all have BIG dreams for the ToS. I
am really sorry to hear of your continuing "hand to mouth" existance
and wish you all lots of luck in making it to your big goal of being
able to buy some run-down warehouse or some other "temple" real estate
in a scant 50 years or so. That would be so cool! Then you would be
just exactly like all the other grown-up churches, eh? Neato.
Will there be a youth program, too?
(Cheap shot. Sorry.)
-RtM
Dr. Michael A. Aquino
Hash: SHA1
RMerc...@aol.com (Robert the Merciless) wrote:
>Honestly, Dr. Aquino, don't you get a little tired of
>yammering on about who does or does not own that
>pissant, tomatoe stand of a business known as the Church
>of Satan? About whether it is or is not square with probate
>or whatever? Do the fucking math! As a business,
>it sucks. Who cares who owns it? It's only value is in the
>poetic/psychological/mythological value it holds in the
>minds of Satanists. This is, of course, quite immense and
>largely IRRELEVANT to the trivialities of the California
>business law (which you seem to practice without a license
>to a nearly fanatical degree.)
Yes, yes, yes, yes, good question, yes, & yes.
>Henry Kissinger once said that the conflicts in academia
>were so strident because the rewards were so small.
Henry the K., who never ceases to nauseate me, ripped
that off from one of Parkinson's Laws, which states
that the number and force of opinions concerning
an issue vary inversely with its complexity. Few board
members will contest a complicated five-year sales plan,
but everyone will go to the mat concerning whether
the office coffee-break should be 15 or 20 minutes.
>As seats of power, the High Priesthood of either the CoS
>or the ToS seems hardly worth being overly concerned
>about.
So don't concern yourself about them.
>Maybe its more important in the ToS since you have all
>of that tiresome and illusionary hierarchy and posturing
>to maintain.
What's tough is the "walk like an Egyptian" bit, whereby you
have to keep some parts of your body sideways and others
forward, and still see where you're going and not trip over
anyone else.
>I know you all have BIG dreams for the ToS.
I'll settle for control of the planet. On second thought, maybe
just Las Vegas. I, you know, like dig the Luxor.
>I am really sorry to hear of your continuing "hand to
>mouth" existance and wish you all lots of luck in making
>it to your big goal of being able to buy some run-down
>warehouse or some other "temple" real estate in a scant
>50 years or so. That would be so cool! Then you would be
>just exactly like all the other grown-up churches, eh? Neato.
No, we'll insist upon a designer warehouse in a suitably
fashionable neighborhood.
>Will there be a youth program, too?
Sorry, you'll still have to wait until you're 18 to apply. In
the meantime concentrate on learning to spell "tomato"
and "existence", so that you don't come across dorky in
your application letter.
Michael Aquino
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circe
"Robert the Merciless" <RMerc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:84789778.01111...@posting.google.com...
> Will there be a youth program, too?
He that blows the coals in quarrels that he has nothing to do with,
has no right to complain if the sparks fly in his face. -Ben Franklin
> (Cheap shot. Sorry.)
> -RtM
Dagon Productions
circe wrote:
> "Robert the Merciless" <RMerc...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:84789778.01111...@posting.google.com...
>
> > Will there be a youth program, too?
>
> He that blows the coals in quarrels that he has nothing to do with,
> has no right to complain if the sparks fly in his face. -Ben Franklin
Where did RtM complain?
Another shot in the dark?
I bet you had have a hard time hitting the side of a barn
with a 12 gauge.
-Douglas
--
**********************************************
Dagon Productions
Chaos Magick & Occult books
http://www.dagonproductions.com
in...@dagonproductions.com
Matthew Vincent
wrote:
>Nancy, who hasn't the 34 cents to mail a formal resignation to the
>CoS, but who is so far out of the loop as to be in another universe,
>knows nothing of the current workings in the CoS.
If it was me, I'd boot her sorry ass out rather than waiting around
for her to resign. ;)
>We are thrilled with our High Priest! We deeply respect our High
>Priestess, and adore our founder's son. We love our Magistra Templi
>Rex, without reservations. We, who are blessed to be included, laugh
>at others who claim that because they aren't in it, it must be degraded.
Yup, that's about it.
>If Zeena becomes HP of the ToS, well, more power to her. If Karla and
>her 3 minute church do well, again, goody for her. We KNOW, based on
>the words and deeds of the man himself, what Dr. LaVey wanted for his
>church, and we're delighted that we want the same thing.
>Support LaVey's daughters if you wish, but realize they have nothing
>to do with what LaVey wanted for the Church of Satan.
>Peter Gilmore is our High Priest. Blanche Barton is our High
>Priestess. Peggy Nadramia is our Mgistra Templi Rex. This is what
>WE, those in the CoS, want, and that is all that matters.
Well said.
Matthew
Matthew Vincent
wrote:
>Later on "Curio" was identified as one Diana Napolis,
>a longtime "SRA" dingdong, by the by the San Diego State
>University Police. In August 2001, as reprinted by Alex
>Constantine, she reappeared on Usenet:
>
>"In November 2000 I experienced someone making
>internal/psychic contact with me. In March 2001, I
>experienced being abducted from my home via an
>unknown technology. My life then drastically changed.
LOL! I've heard it all now.
Matthew
People's Commissar
"Dr. Michael A. Aquino" <xe...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011119224053...@nso-de.aol.com...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
> Few board members (in a corporation) will contest a complicated five-year
>sales plan, but everyone will go to the mat concerning whether the office
>coffee-break should be 15 or 20 minutes.
That's BEAUTIFUL - and oh so true.
>
> What's tough is the "walk like an Egyptian" bit, whereby you
> have to keep some parts of your body sideways and others
> forward, and still see where you're going and not trip over
> anyone else.
HAAAAAA! I can't believe it - that's HILARIOUS.
>
> >I know you all have BIG dreams for the ToS.
>
> I'll settle for control of the planet. On second thought, maybe
> just Las Vegas. I, you know, like dig the Luxor.
HAAAAA. You have been bitten by the God of Silly. Ridero Ergo Sum!
>
> Michael Aquino
TJ. Did you really write this post?
Kevin Filan
> >Henry Kissinger once said that the conflicts in academia
> >were so strident because the rewards were so small.
>
> Henry the K., who never ceases to nauseate me, ripped
> that off from one of Parkinson's Laws, which states
> that the number and force of opinions concerning
> an issue vary inversely with its complexity. Few board
> members will contest a complicated five-year sales plan,
> but everyone will go to the mat concerning whether
> the office coffee-break should be 15 or 20 minutes.
I can imagine that Henry Kissinger might make you queasy. Kissinger
regularly dines with the mightiest rulers on the planet. He's one of the
most well-known, respected, feared, hated, admired and loathed men alive
today. He's shaped history the way some people shape clay. In short, as a
Satanic figure he makes you look really, really silly. Not to mention that
he did a lot more with his Ph.D. than you ever will. And he has a better
haircut.
Watching Aquino express his contempt for Henry Kissinger is nearly as funny
as watching him whine about the "CID/Jesse Helms/CIA black bag job" on his
career. He studied political science for years ... and yet he doesn't have
the foggiest idea of what REAL power is. Like Helms, Kissinger knows the
inner workings of Power as intimately as Michael Aquino knows Anton LaVey's
bankruptcy petition... and like Helms, Kissinger has left his mark on the
bone and sinew of the generations to come after him. (Of course, there are
therapists who say the Aquinos left their mark on a whole daycare center
full of younguns ... but we won't go into that just now).
Now then, for a third time:
Dr. Michael A. Aquino
Hash: SHA1
"People's Commissar" <tanija...@myself.com> wrote:
>Did you really write this post?
I don't remember doing so ... I just woke up in bed
this morning with my shirt all torn up, my feet
dirty, and muddy wolf tracks leading up to the
bed ... Meleva! Must talk to Meleva!
Michael Aquino
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Kori Houghton
> "Dr. Michael A. Aquino" <xe...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20011119224053...@nso-de.aol.com...
>
> > >Henry Kissinger once said that the conflicts in academia
> > >were so strident because the rewards were so small.
> >
> > Henry the K., who never ceases to nauseate me, ripped
> > that off from one of Parkinson's Laws, which states
> > that the number and force of opinions concerning
> > an issue vary inversely with its complexity. Few board
> > members will contest a complicated five-year sales plan,
> > but everyone will go to the mat concerning whether
> > the office coffee-break should be 15 or 20 minutes.
>
> I can imagine that Henry Kissinger might make you queasy. Kissinger
> regularly dines with the mightiest rulers on the planet. He's one of the
> most well-known, respected, feared, hated, admired and loathed men alive
> today. He's shaped history the way some people shape clay. In short, as a
> Satanic figure he makes you look really, really silly. Not to mention that
> he did a lot more with his Ph.D. than you ever will. And he has a better
> haircut.
Now, Kevin.....you can be a bright, witty, articulate person. But
sometimes you just lose it, baby. Dr. Strangelove makes *me* queasy,
too, and I'm not a paid-up member of Dr. A's fanclub.
The way Strangelove has proposed "shap[ing] history" is by ending
history, if you get my meaning. IMO, your disagreement with Dr. A and
the ToS is not sufficient reason to destroy most/all life on this
planet. Likewise, your statement that Kissinger's contempt for Life
is more "Satanic" than Aquino's nausea at same is just plain wrong.
>
> Watching Aquino express his contempt for Henry Kissinger is nearly as funny
> as watching him whine about the "CID/Jesse Helms/CIA black bag job" on his
> career. He studied political science for years ... and yet he doesn't have
> the foggiest idea of what REAL power is.
Again, Kevin, I have to say that he seems to have taken your soul,
turned it inside out, and shoved it sideways up your nose. That
couldn't have been easy, considering you're not exactly mindless.
> Like Helms, Kissinger knows the
> inner workings of Power as intimately as Michael Aquino knows Anton LaVey's
> bankruptcy petition... and like Helms, Kissinger has left his mark on the
> bone and sinew of the generations to come after him.
Yup, radioactivity will do that, sure.
> (Of course, there are
> therapists who say the Aquinos left their mark on a whole daycare center
> full of younguns ... but we won't go into that just now).
Yawn....
>
> Now then, for a third time:
>
> Shut up, Childfucker. Nobody gave you permission to speak.
Actually, I would like to read Dr. A's comments on the current ToS
situation. So, for what it's worth, *I* am giving him permission to
speak. So there.
>
> Peace
> Kevin Filan
Acknowledging The Enemy of Both Sides,
Kori Houghton
Mr. Scratch
On 18 Nov 2001, Dr. Michael A. Aquino wrote:
> In article <8dbfab8b.01111...@posting.google.com>,
> will_...@hotmail.com (William Fellow) wrote:
>
> >I thought you might find this information interesting.
> >It's forwarded to me directly from the Temple of Set's IV*
> >only mailing list.
>
> No, it's not forwarded to you by the list, because only
> IV*+ Initiates of the Temple are members of the list.
> Evidently the list was hacked, and you are exploiting
> the hacking, both of which actions are unsurprisingly
> representative of the caliber of person the Temple of
> Set rejects/ejects.
*Sigh*
Yes, yes...your III*-IV* stormtroops are all so trust-o-worthy, they
wouldn't dream of posting here under a pseudonym to launch an inter-Temple
political attack. Magister David Austin's denunciations of Ron Barrett in
this forum were a mere aberration, of course.
And naturally, no Noble Representative of the Priesthood would so debase
himself by appearing amid the dregs of the World of Horrors that reside on
this newsgroup. Your participation here is surely just another such
aberration. Oh, and Magister Menschel. And your wife Lilith. Hmm, we must
add Roger Whittaker to the list. And of course Priest Shawn Watts' sad
displays. All mere deviations from the Noble norm.
Nope, never coulda happened. Someone musta "hacked" you.
Whatever. If you don't want to face the fact that your organization is
riddled with dissatisfied moles, then look the other way. It just makes
it easier for the rest of us to get the nitty gritty.
Just like y'all don't want to face the reasons for your ever-dwindling
membership. Soon, your Temple will consist of a dozen "Magisters" decked
out in elaborate Napoleonesque uniforms, with half as many acolytes
groveling at their feet, and you'll still be too self-absorbed to know
what hit you. Well, it'll bring Conclave bills down, that's for sure.
> >Perhaps the rest of the Satanic Community might like
> >to know that the Schrecks will soon be running the
> >ToS show?
>
> An unsupported conclusion, as detailed below.
Yup, totally unsupported. And will be right up to the moment that "the
Schrecks are running the ToS show."
> >Recently Bob Menschel (Shuti/Balanone)- who
> >has served as Chairman for many, many years,
> >was ousted ...
>
> Again a falsehood. The Chairmanship of the Council
> has a 1-year term of office, and each year the Council
> votes to confirm its Chairman for the next year. There
> is no privilege on the basis of current tenure of t....
(blah, blah, matters of ToS procedure only barely related to the
statement. snip.)
Sure. It's just another big coincidence.
One year ago I said that Bob Menschel and Don Webb would be removed from
their positions, either forcibly or by "resignation," to make room for a
Schreck on the HP's throne. Lo and behold, guess what has coincidentally
come to pass. With a feel for coincidence like this, maybe I ought to
throw more money at the stock market.
By the way, I hear tell that Webb is leaving for "family reasons." Isn't
that the familiar refrain of the politician who has been arm-twisted into
resigning his office? Nice one.
Now that those two speedbumps are behind you, the daggers are out to
determine who will be the new HP...and shock! Horrors! The first person
to emerge to the forefront is Zeena Schreck! Who would have imagined such
a thing? Well, myself and others at Radio Free Setian, for one.
> >(as predicted by Mr. Scratch)
>
> Craig "Mr. Scratch" Hunt tends to be dramatic about
> policies or events in the Temple of Set which reflect
> the ethical standards which he as a Priest of Set was
> unable to uphold himself. However, as noted here,
> there is nothing at all unusual, or conspiratorial, about
> the Temple of Set's High Priesthood deliberation process.
Nope, nothing at all unusual. Show's over, folks. Everyone move along,
move along...nothing to see here...move along...
> Michael Aquino
Xeper,
Mr. Scratch
Priest of Set
www.radio-free-setian.com
Phosphoros X
(Robert the Merciless) wrote:
>I am not shocked or concerned about Zeena's name being tossed in the
ToS leadership ring. Sounds like fun to me. She gets my vote.
I agree. If only I wasn't too jaded to believe in conspiracies...
Hail Satan!
RLM
Dr. Michael A. Aquino
Hash: SHA1
Craig "Mr. Scratch" Hunt<scr...@efn.org> wrote:
>If you don't want to face the fact that your organization
>is riddled with dissatisfied moles, then look the other
>way.
Those riddles of moles [Is that like a gaggle of geese?] just
appeared in a spontaneous puff of smoke immediately
following your expulsion? I don't remember you
noticing or mentioning a single D.M., much less a
riddle of them, prior to that point.
>Just like y'all don't want to face the reasons for
>your ever-dwindling membership.
Statistically the Temple membership has remained more
or less constant over the last decade or so, and is neither
noticeably higher nor lower at this moment.
Also, as you well know, we have never been particularly
concerned with raw numbers, but rather with the quality
of personal attention and service the Temple can provide
to each individual. If someone affiliates with the Temple
and is not able to effectively access its informational
and communicative resources, that's when reviews and
redesigns are called for.
>One year ago I said that Bob Menschel and Don Webb
>would be removed from their positions, either forcibly
>or by "resignation," to make room for a Schreck on the
>HP's throne. Lo and behold, guess what has coincidentally
>come to pass.
One year ago you were furious at Don Webb for recommending
that the Council of Nine expel you for your disgrace of your
Priestly office, and furious at Council of Nine Chairman
Robert Menschel for the unanimous Council vote, including
his own, confirming that expulsion. No great surprise, then,
that you would make dire, vague predictions concerning both
of them. Unfortunately neither has quite come true in the
catastrophic conspiracy scenario you proposed.
Magister Menschel was neither "forceably removed" from the
Chairmanship nor did he "resign" from it. Again as you know,
the Chairman's term is for one year, at which point the
Council nominates and votes in one of its members for the
next year. After Menschel's term expired, nominations and
a vote occurred, and Ipsissimus James Lewis was elected.
[And incidentally, neither Magister nor Magistra Schreck
is on the Council.]
Magus Webb has served magnificently as High Priest of Set
since 1996, and has made no secret of his intentions to retire
soon from the office, the precise time depending upon
deliberation concerning a successor by the Masters and
the Council. Your great "prediction" was not news then, and
hardly something sensational a year later.
>By the way, I hear tell that Webb is leaving for "family
>reasons."
No, his reasons have been plainly and meticulously stated
to the Temple, and focus generally on the same criteria
that led me to decide to retire in 1996: that he has fulfilled
what he Understands to be his sacred tasks in the office, and
that it is time for a new vision.
>The first person to emerge to the forefront is Zeena Schreck!
Actually no. At least three other Masters' names have been
previously introduced as possible candidates in the Masters'
discussions.
But you seem to think that something is horrifically wrong
with Magistra Schreck. Surprise, surprise: She just happens
to be respected, liked, and admired throughout the Temple
of Set, in which she has interacted and worked selflessly
from her I* to her IV* for years.
If you have a personal hatred of her, one can only speculate
that it's because she, like Webb and Menschel, upholds
standards of Priestly ethics that you chose not to yourself.
[And in case you cherish a fantasy to the contrary, neither
Zeena nor Nikolas was at the San Francisco Conclave when
you disgraced yourself; neither was consulted by the
Council; both learned of your and Delf's expulsions only
after the Council's vote.]
Michael Aquino
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Satan
> If you have a personal hatred of her (Zeena), one can only speculate
> that it's because she, like Webb and Menschel, upholds
> standards of Priestly ethics that you chose not to yourself.
> [And in case you cherish a fantasy to the contrary, neither
> Zeena nor Nikolas was at the San Francisco Conclave when
> you disgraced yourself; neither was consulted by the
> Council; both learned of your and Delf's expulsions only
> after the Council's vote.]
>
> Michael Aquino
>
The whole Council reasoning behind this episode is just plain weak.
Somehow, having a relationship with someone who has a negative opinion of
the Temple or even a derogatory opinion, disgraces any Temple Priest or
Honorary Member found consorting with said person? Your "priest duties"
argument (although it sounds like a "big brother" rationalization)
notwithstanding, the Temple's expectations and behavior required of the
priest's station can not be expected of an Honorary Member? Their station
clearly does not require the expectations of a priest...so what's the
justification there? Because of an Honorary's unique status and
contributions...it would be reasonable to imply that they would receive far
more lenience than what is expected of a Priest.
Number one: in some way this private/personal area (i.e.. personal friends)
of any Temple Initiate's life has now become the temple's business?
Number two: how does having a derogatory opinion concerning a certain
"satanic institution" necessarily bring disgrace to that individual...let
alone people he may be associated with?
The logic does not fly. I might even go as far as to say that you're not
looking at the objective universe. :)
What the situation truly appears to be is the Council of Nine all singing in
unison...
"We don't like that person...if you say you like them...then we don't like
you anymore!"
Natas
Dr. Michael A. Aquino
Hash: SHA1
"Satan" <homeo...@home.com> wrote:
>[lack of understanding of the Council of Nine's rationale
>in the expulsion of Craig Hunt and rescinding of Kerry
>Delf's Honorary Setian designation]
The answers to all of your questions were explained in
considerable detail on alt.satanism at the time, and I'm
not going to bother going over them all again. You might
look back through DejaNews for my posts and gain some
understanding there.
Keep this also in mind: that the Temple of Set takes
itself and the Priesthood of Set extremely seriously
and literally. There are many other organizations in
which what we would consider unacceptably dishonorable
behavior would be shrugged off as a "who cares?" item.
Water seeks its own level, and persons who prefer that
kind of environment should assuredly seek it out, as
they would indeed be inconvenienced in the Temple of Set.
Michael Aquino
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Hathor
[snip]
> Number one: in some way this private/personal area (i.e.. personal friends)
> of any Temple Initiate's life has now become the temple's business?
>
> Number two: how does having a derogatory opinion concerning a certain
> "satanic institution" necessarily bring disgrace to that individual...let
> alone people he may be associated with?
>
>
> The logic does not fly. I might even go as far as to say that you're not
> looking at the objective universe. :)
>
>
> What the situation truly appears to be is the Council of Nine all singing in
> unison...
>
> "We don't like that person...if you say you like them...then we don't like
> you anymore!"
>
>
> Natas
Hello Natas,
Not meaning to be rude, but who the hell are you and how do you know
all this? Are you really getting this simply from what has been
written to the public NG or are you getting information more directly
from the Temple? can you back this all up with harder information?
Again, I'm not meaning to be rude here but I am very curious about why
anyone should beleive what you've written here - I don't think that
anyone currently IN the temple would agree that this is how things
stand.
--Hathor
Satan
"Hathor" <inno...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6b0e64e6.01112...@posting.google.com...
> "Satan" <homeo...@home.com> wrote in message
news:<QrFK7.55732$Ud.26...@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>...
>
>
> Hello Natas,
>
> Not meaning to be rude, but who the hell are you
Ask Dr. A. He knows...well...he used to anyway.
Natas
Phosphoros X
Go pick at your scar.
BriciMacCarbaid
> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Funny, Mr. Scratch seems to have predicted that well enough.
> And I quote:
>
> "The upper levels of the ToS are a page straight out of the history of
> the Court of Versailles -- with subtle attacks made on rivals, attempts to
> undermine one another's spheres of influence, and to cast one another
> into positions of private disgrace. Your leadership is currently locked in
> a struggle for power, with the Schrecks and the Aquinos vying to remove
> High Priest Don Webb from his position. Who knows why Webb must be
> replaced...perhaps it is because he has stretched out tenuous diplomatic
> feelers to the officials of the Church of Satan, in order to end the
> idiotic conflict that has existed between these two organizations.
> Certainly that would inspire the ire of both attacking parties.
> Information I consider reliable has it that Nikolas Schreck has expressed
> that he would not be opposed to any coup placing him in the position of
> High Priest. Robert Menschel, who has stubbornly fought any such nonsense
> under his watch, may soon find his days as Chairman of the Council of Nine
> numbered, if he isn't removed from the Temple entirely by then."
>
> >>(as predicted by Mr. Scratch)
O.K., I have a question. And I'm not picking sides, I don't give a
damn if ZS is next HP in TOS or whatever. Here's my question: SO WHAT
if the TOS [or any other org] runs its politics like the Court of
Versailles? Isn't that SATANIC?
Are Satanists asking for democratic process & fairness [and by
what/who's standard of fairness?]. It seems to me most Satanists want
to yell MIGHT MAKES RIGHT when something's in THEIR OWN favor....and
when the chips are down then it's "oh those big bad meanies were
unfair to me, and I want justice and compassion".
A turn of the screw, the stab with a knife, the wringing of an arm,
lies, character assassination, ends justify the means......isn't THAT
Satanic? Might makes right, survival of the fittest ---- ?? Yes? No?
Or should we have the supposed Christian ethics [fairness, empathy,
understanding, cooperation] as a Satanic political base from which to
operate??
I don't feel sorry for Webb or Menschel, or anyone else who might get
caught between the cogs. They wanted to play [like other ex-TOSsers
here], now they might pay. If there are no ethics or values in
Satanism, then anything goes. Right?
::Devil's Advocate, hehe::
The Honorable Judge Ludvig Prinn
>> >damn if ZS is next HP in TOS or whatever. Here's my question: SO WHAT
>> >if the TOS [or any other org] runs its politics like the Court of
>> >Versailles? Isn't that SATANIC?
>>
>>
>> If you don't know the difference, you might as well abandon this line
>of
>> inquiry.
>
>Frankly, I would love to know what you think the difference is
See the second half of the above sentence.
>aside
>from the fact that TOS worships Set, which some have said is the actual
>
>ancient reference from which the Christians fashioned Satan.
That's taking a whole lot for granted.
William Edward Woody
> O.K., I have a question. And I'm not picking sides, I don't give a
> damn if ZS is next HP in TOS or whatever. Here's my question: SO WHAT
> if the TOS [or any other org] runs its politics like the Court of
> Versailles? Isn't that SATANIC?
LOL.
And thank you for asking that question. The question itself has bugged
me ever since I started following the latest soap opera of postings on
the TOS here.
Of course the flip side is that by playing these "might makes right"
games, it's harder for any organization, satanic or not, to grow beyond
a certain core group of people--if only because, if the TOS is serious
about a perminant temple, they're going to need a broad base of members
from which to draw economic support. Pissing off larger monetary
contributors in the process is only biting the hand that feeds you. And
if you have a $2,000 monthly stroke to make to keep the temple open,
pissing off the four guys who were coughing up $400/month each is going
to create a very large gap to close.
--
- William Woody http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~woody
The PandaWave http://www.pandawave.com
In Phase Consulting http://www.inphase.org
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the
blood of patriots & tyrrants" - Thomas Jefferson
Kori Houghton
> i...@bermuda.io.com (IX Corp) wrote in message news:<5%KJ7.22253$4m.14...@news2.aus1.giganews.com>...
> > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Funny, Mr. Scratch seems to have predicted that well enough.
> > And I quote:
> >
> > "The upper levels of the ToS are a page straight out of the history of
> > the Court of Versailles -- with subtle attacks made on rivals, attempts to
> > undermine one another's spheres of influence, and to cast one another
> > into positions of private disgrace. Your leadership is currently locked in
> > a struggle for power, with the Schrecks and the Aquinos vying to remove
> > High Priest Don Webb from his position. Who knows why Webb must be
> > replaced...perhaps it is because he has stretched out tenuous diplomatic
> > feelers to the officials of the Church of Satan, in order to end the
> > idiotic conflict that has existed between these two organizations.
> > Certainly that would inspire the ire of both attacking parties.
> > Information I consider reliable has it that Nikolas Schreck has expressed
> > that he would not be opposed to any coup placing him in the position of
> > High Priest. Robert Menschel, who has stubbornly fought any such nonsense
> > under his watch, may soon find his days as Chairman of the Council of Nine
> > numbered, if he isn't removed from the Temple entirely by then."
> >
> > >>(as predicted by Mr. Scratch)
>
> O.K., I have a question. And I'm not picking sides, I don't give a
> damn if ZS is next HP in TOS or whatever. Here's my question: SO WHAT
> if the TOS [or any other org] runs its politics like the Court of
> Versailles? Isn't that SATANIC?
Not sure. LHP and Satanic aren't exactly the same thing, or so I
thought?
>
> Are Satanists asking for democratic process & fairness [and by
> what/who's standard of fairness?]. It seems to me most Satanists want
> to yell MIGHT MAKES RIGHT when something's in THEIR OWN favor....and
> when the chips are down then it's "oh those big bad meanies were
> unfair to me, and I want justice and compassion".
Not sure that ToS yells "Might Makes Right" in either case. I thought
there was a distinct element of ethics in the mix, not to mention
"honor". Justice isn't an absolute kind of thing; respect is kinda
nice, though. Compassion? Nah! Again, maybe some respect?
>
> A turn of the screw, the stab with a knife, the wringing of an arm,
> lies, character assassination, ends justify the means......isn't THAT
> Satanic? Might makes right, survival of the fittest ---- ?? Yes? No?
>
> Or should we have the supposed Christian ethics [fairness, empathy,
> understanding, cooperation] as a Satanic political base from which to
> operate??
I wouldn't go so far as to label these concepts as "Christian". Not
all of them have to do with ethics, either, IMO. Cooperation can
exist among animals of the same species, so that isn't always
un-Satanic. Fairness is relative. Empathy: you either got it or not
(like "style"). Understanding? Does a Satanist aim to be, uh, like,
a bit thick?
>
> I don't feel sorry for Webb or Menschel, or anyone else who might get
> caught between the cogs. They wanted to play [like other ex-TOSsers
> here], now they might pay.
Pay enough to purchase real estate?
> If there are no ethics or values in
> Satanism, then anything goes. Right?
Only if Set = Satan.
>
> ::Devil's Advocate, hehe::
Kill all the Lawyers! heehee
Kori
The Honorable Judge Ludvig Prinn
>damn if ZS is next HP in TOS or whatever. Here's my question: SO WHAT
>if the TOS [or any other org] runs its politics like the Court of
>Versailles? Isn't that SATANIC?
Oh yes, but is it Setian?
If you don't know the difference, you might as well abandon this line of
inquiry.
People's Commissar
long history of might making right, swords and torture making converts.
Deeds tell their truth, not their sweet words.
Essay One:
War Cry of the Vanquished
Might is Right? Or is it that RIGHT IS RIGHT?
By Ole Wolf
Many have said before, and repeatedly, that "might is right!" is the war cry
of the vanquished, that is, it's the cry of those that fell victims of
might. Outrageous as these words may seem at first to those that read The
Satanic Bible, they are the readers' truth. Although it is long forgotten
and suppressed, they have seen first hand since childhood that regardless
what seemed right, what became right was determined by might. Throughout
childhood and adolescence, they have felt the effects of might on their own
minds and bodies. But was it right to break their very instincts and leave
them broken? Was it right to leave these people virtually sensually dead
compared to a person who is not broken No, it was wrong; it was anti-human
in the extreme, and Christianity does this (along with many other religions
that do not dominate our culture in the West) from the moment of birth.
Ideally, upon recognizing this, they would deliver themselves by their own
minds and bodies by recognizing what was done to them and how it was done,
and then themselves determine right and wrong. They would possess an inner
quiet strength that rendered them too strong for the adversaries that have
oppressed them as long as they can remember. And yet, they are not content
with having won--or so they believe--the battle for their minds. Although
they should have become freed from their original oppressors, years of
oppression has become hardwired in their bodies and internalized, and they
have become their OWN oppressors. They will fight against oppression until
the day they die, never realizing that now the battlefield lies within
themselves. As oppression fights oppression within the same person, they
are the bullied people become bullies, or stalkees become stalkers. Unlike
the person that destroys his oppressors in retribution quickly and then
stops, they want to become oppressors themselves and continue the status
quo, under a new name.
So you hear them, louder than ever, proclaim that "might is right!," conjure
grand theories about mutual preying, and consider themselves wolves among
sheep rather than humans among humans. Without considering whether life
negating and energy-draining competition for "right by the means of might"
is an advantageous form of interaction among human animals, they fall prey
to solipsism and believe that their own suppression naturally extends to
every human specimen. It is this solipsism that prompts them to repeatedly
postulate a philosophy that has long since been recognized as pseudo-science
and termed "vulgar-Darwinism:" the notion that the human animal must prey
upon its peers in order to survive. These "advocates of undefiled wisdom"
are not concerned by contradictory facts of biology, however. Neither are
they concerned about facts of history or sociology, which reveal how
profoundly Christianity has been secularized into all levels of society by
means of sheer might.
This should stand as a warning beacon to the Satanists who advocate that
might should continue to be right; but instead, they appraise might, never
realizing that might was the very technique that was used to oppress them in
the first place. Really! As self-proclaimed adversaries of the Christian
reign, they should have been crushed at birth per their own principles,
since only Christian mercy saves them from being persecuted and destroyed
because of their newly-gained philosophy. You'll also see that whenever any
form of might that they so highly cherish is used against them in the form
of draconian measures from influential Christians, their battle cries fade
to desolate wailings about unfair treatment. Unfair?
They never ask themselves the question if the sudden feeling of "might" that
they get upon reading The Satanic Bible, or by calling themselves Satanists,
could be a mere illusion. In fact, it is. "We are the ones who change the
world," they say. So? What are they doing as physicists, chemists, or
engineers to investigate new, lasting energy sources that do not pollute the
Earth? What are they doing as physicians to find more effective ways to
avoid or cure diseases? What are they doing as economists to solve the
problem of poverty? What are they doing as social workers to ease the lives
of the millions for whom society has become too complicated? What are they
doing as lawyers to devise laws that appeal to common sense and are
manageable by everyone? What are they doing as teachers to help children
learn and understand so that they will become able to think and act by
themselves and not be duped by religious fairy-tales? What have they done
to please their lovers that she or he may hold on to them for other reasons
than the illusions in the lovers' heads?
Okay, we know their standard answer: "We do not care about poverty,
ignorance, pollution, diseases, or others' lack of pleasures. We only want
our own indulgences," they state. Does this mean they're ignorant of the
fact that social disasters are the most fertile soil for all types of
religious oppression? Does it mean that they are ignorant of the fact that
their indulgences are only possible as long as there are people who feel
responsible to continuously attempt to fight the inequality and inhumanity
of might? Does it mean that they are ignorant of the fact that if might
truly became right, they would be completely crushed?
These people are those that can identify with Satan because they're TOTALLY
WITHIN the Christian mind-set, where Satan represents the LOSER. That's how
I and many others view them: people that lost the battle for their minds;
ultimate Christians who are still playing the Christian game.
With the exception of a few members, most of the members I and many others
have encountered are Christian morons who are either renaming Jesus to
"intellectualism" or people that think indulgence means porn (which is
essentially the same thing as intellectualism).
You feel the black flame within you, or you don't feel it. Some don't have
it, and they gravitate towards the Church of Satan and some other Satanic
organizations because it provides an identification with LOST divinity, or
so I'd imagine, it provides them with a "group wailing ground" in which to
make strong sounds and bolster up each others broken egos. Instead of
feeling divinity within them, they act like little Hitlers ("their own
gods"), which is completely superficial. That's them: nothing inside.
They aren't REAL so they have to be OTHER things (gods).
What Christian indoctrination does, even NON-RELIGIOUS Christian CULTURAL
indoctrination, is wrong, it is monstrous. We know of NO Satanist in ANY
organization, nor anyone in any Wiccan or Pagan organization, that would
disagree, especially if they are aware of how much "wrong" was done to them
by this entire 2000 year old tradition. Yet the Christians surely had
MIGHT. The Christians still have might, but their free-handed use of it has
been tempered by those who were TRULY against them: and none of those
adversaries who really pushed them back and won gains for the human
condition ever thought or said that might was right. They knew better.
They had Undefiled Wisdom - FOR REAL.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Essay Two
Analysis of "Might is Right" (MiR) by Jack London, using only portions that
Anton LaVey took. By Tani Jantsang
First off: Jack London was often a Hobo and a Bum in life and he rejected
civilization as it was. He was also a militant Socialist! He took part in
labor rallies. That's who wrote MiR! Anton LaVey only took portions he
liked. Anton LaVey did not write MiR.
Let's put some historicity into this and understand the author's intent.
"The writer/author" in this analysis refers to Jack London and NOT to Anton
LaVey unless specifically stated. This is an analysis that takes the text
back to the time it was written and within the context, and inside the
paradigm, of those times. LaVey, in the 1960's, took portions and applied
them solely to religion and as a semi-counter to the hippie movement. And
again, today in the realm of neo-Satanism it is again being misapplied and
taken wholly out of context. This was not an anti-religious diatribe at all
per se; it was a diatribe typical of the Social Revolutionaries, as they
were called back then. Social Revolutionaries were also called: REDS.
THE BOOK OF SATAN I
1. In this arid wilderness of steel and stone I raise up my voice that you
may hear. To the East and to the West I beckon. To the North and to the
South I show a sign proclaiming: Death to the weakling, wealth to the
strong!
Note: Jack London lives in the "wilderness" of steel and stone (NOT a
wilderness at all and, in fact, London loved the wilderness and nature). He
proclaims death to the weakling and wealth to the strong. He PROCLAIMS
this. Is he saying it should be this? Since he himself was NOT wealthy or
powerful in that sense, lived as a Hobo and was a Militant Socialist, one
has to question and analyze that: you see, in those days, physically fit and
strong people were workers: the sickly and weak were the aristocrats! London
was a hardy man, strong, fit: and he despised the weaklings that ruled! Is
he saying simply that it is this, that this is the status quo where the
steel and stone cities have killed the wildernesses? Or is he saying that
wealth should go to the strong who actually work and make that wealth, and
not go to the weak types who ruled when he wrote this? You have to
understand that these Socialists were tough as hell, and hell bent on
violent revolution and the extermination of the weak rulers of that time.
2. Open your eyes that you may see, Oh men of mildewed minds, and listen to
me ye bewildered millions!
3. For I stand forth to challenge the wisdom of the world; to interrogate
the "laws" of man and of "God"!
Note: He is questioning not just Christianity or religion. He is ALSO
questioning the laws (legal) of MAN. Remember, he was a Militant Socialist!
They ALL questioned the "laws of man" and wanted to write new ones (often
after a violent revolution).
4. I request reason for your golden rule and ask the why and wherefore of
your ten commandments.
5. Before none of your printed idols do I bend in acquiescence, and he who
saith "thou shalt" to me is my mortal foe!
Note: What have the 10 commandments to do with the laws of man or labor
relations which London was really involved with? Nothing. But he who says
"thou shalt" is my mortal foe? This is like what Aleister Crowley talked
about: Do as thou Wilt is the Whole of the Law! (RIGHT ON). The "Golden
Rule" is "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." In other
words, if you would want workers to exploit you and rip you off, then do
that to them! If you do not want them to do that, then don't do that to
them. The ruling classes preached the golden rule, but theysurely did not
practice it unless they were suicidal.
6. I dip my forefinger in the watery blood of your impotent mad redeemer,
and write over his thorn-torn brow: The TRUE prince of evil - the king of
slaves!
Note: This is a take off of "RELIGION IS THE OPIUM OF THE PEOPLE" which was
said by Karl Marx - the founder of ALL Socialism! Religion was used to keep
everyone else oppressed and induce them to tolerate exploitation; note that
religion had MIGHT back then. Socialism was dead against this. They
regarded the ruling class as evil and knew the ruling classes used religion
to keep everyone else down. Note clearly that London is calling Jesus the
True Prince of Evil; with Jesus being the one who is Lord and Master over
all slaves! The Master has the might, here Jesus is named as that mighty
one: the King of Slaves! If you want to dualize this: if Jesus is the true
prince of evil, then Satan is the prince of good! London, however, was not
into Satan. Note the lack of mention.
7. No hoary falsehood shall be a truth to me; no stifling dogma shall
encramp my pen!
8. I break away from all conventions that do not lead to my earthly success
and happiness.
Note: the hoary falsehoods are the laws of man, not just "god." He
believes, as all Socialists believe, that everyone was born with the Natural
Right to pursue life, liberty and happiness! Even Felix Dzerzhinsky said
this and he never heard of Jefferson!
9. I raise up in stern invasion the standard of the strong!
10. I gaze into the glassy eye of your fearsome Jehovah, and pluck him by
the beard; I uplift a broad-axe, and split open his worm-eaten skull!
11. I blast out the ghastly contents of philosophically whited sepulchers
and laugh with sardonic wrath!
Note: Anton LaVey chose to pick out things focusing on what is religiously
oriented here. Anton LaVey never advocated taking up arms against the
government Socialists DID advocate this and so did London.
THE BOOK OF SATAN II
12. Behold the crucifix; what does it symbolize? Pallid incompetence hanging
on a tree.
Note: This is also how such revolutionaries regarded their own ruling
classes - who used religion to stifle the workers! Remember, London was
militant in the labor movement as a Socialist, he was not "just" a Union
guy. Christians in his time preached peace, but practiced war all the time.
13. I question all things. As I stand before the festering and varnished
facades of your haughtiest moral dogmas, I write thereon in letters of
blazing scorn: Lo and behold; all this is fraud!
Note: Marx himself could have written this paragraph, he wrote such things
in personal letters.
14. Gather around me, Oh! ye death-defiant, and the earth itself shall be
thine, to have and to hold!
15. Too long the dead hand has been permitted to sterilize living thought!
Note: this is classically against the ruling classes who were regarded as
conservative as opposed to progressive. This is a call for progressive
revolt.
16. Too long right and wrong, good and evil have been inverted by false
prophets!
17. No creed must be accepted upon authority of a "divine" nature.
Note: No creed is NO CREED.
Religions must be put to the question.
Note: Now London includes religion.
No moral dogma must be taken for granted - no standard of measurement
deified. There is nothing inherently sacred about moral codes. Like the
wooden idols of long ago, they are the work of human hands, and what man has
made, man can destroy!
Note: he is NO LONGER speaking about religion. Standards of measurement
(regarding classes and etc.), moral codes (our laws), human laws. He's
calling for revolution as many other Socialists in the labor movement did.
18. He that is slow to believe anything and everything is of great
understanding, for belief in one false principle is the beginning of all
unwisdom.
Note: he says false principle. He is not talking about religion here
anymore!
19. The chief duty of every new age is to upraise new men to determine its
liberties, to lead it towards material success - to rend the rusty padlocks
and chains of dead custom that always prevent healthy expansion. Theories
and ideas that may have meant life and hope and freedom for our ancestors
may now mean destruction, slavery, and dishonor to us!
Note: Upraise new men (make the New Man) liberties, material success,
chains of dead custom that prevent healthy expansion (ruling classes = dead
customs of altar and throne). This is clearly a political-economic
statement here from London. It has nothing to do with religion AT ALL.
There is NOTHING in Christianity that is against pure Nazism OR pure
Communism OR Libertarianism, OR any other political system. The Christian
Bible is VERY versatile like that. This is not about religion.
20. As environments change, no human ideal standeth sure!
Note: again, ideals. He is trashing the current ideals, as in IDEOLOGY. He
is saying "Let's GET REAL and SMASH ideals."
21. Whenever, therefore, a lie has built unto itself a throne, let it be
assailed without pity and without regret, for under the domination of an
inconvenient falsehood, no one can prosper.
Note: Who dominated? The ruling classes, Kings, Empires and yes, they were
in cahoots with religious organizations or else they'd have destroyed the
religious organizations. The Catholic Church put both Muzzolini and Hitler
into power; but they regarded the Socialists as anti-Christs!
22. Let established sophisms be dethroned, rooted out, burnt and destroyed,
for they are a standing menace to all true nobility of thought and action!
23. Whatever alleged "truth" is proven by results to be but an empty
fiction, let it be unceremoniously flung into the outer darkness, among the
dead gods, dead empires, dead philosophies, and other useless lumber and
wreckage!
Note: Again London speaks not just of dead gods, but of dead empires and
philosophies. The writer was a Militant Socialist. One might get a
gleaning of such rhetoric by reading Das Kapital by Marx for surely Jack
London, the writer of MiR, DID read it!
24. The most dangerous of all enthroned lies is the holy, the sanctified,
the privileged lie - the lie everyone believes to be a model truth.
Note: Privileged lie. Told to the privileged classes at the time and then
told to the workers and serfs. People used to believe that they were serfs
and the Kings were Kings because "god ordained it."
It is the fruitful mother of all other popular errors and delusions. It is a
hydra-headed tree of unreason with a thousand roots. It is a social cancer!
Note: See article Tree of Destruction on this website. It's about the same
kind of thing.
25. The lie that is known to be a lie is half eradicated, but the lie that
even intelligent persons accept as fact - the lie that has been inculcated
in a little child at its mother's knee - is more dangerous to contend
against than a creeping pestilence!
Note: again, think in terms of political-economic-social realities here.
That is where the writer was coming from.
26. Popular lies have ever been the most potent enemies of personal liberty.
There is only one way to deal with them: Cut them out, to the very core,
just as cancers. Exterminate them root and branch. Annihilate them, or they
will us!
Note: this is almost a quote from Lenin here. "Cut them out, to the core,
as a disease; exterminate them root and branch!" He said such things about
the bourgeoisie and compradores. As a Militant Socialist, it is certain
that London read Lenin's works! Lenin often argued against established
dogmas by using pure reason.
THE BOOK OF SATAN III
27. "Love one another" it has been said is the supreme law, but what power
made it so? Upon what rational authority does the gospel of love rest? Why
should I not hate mine enemies - if I "love" them does that not place me at
their mercy?
Note: he is speaking rhetorically - the serfs and exploited workers did
love their enemies, even fought wars to enrich their enemies and got nothing
in return. Keep in mind, the author was a Militant Socialist! They were at
the mercy of their enemies who were the ruling classes that everyone looked
up to and loved.
28. Is it natural for enemies to do good unto each other - and WHAT IS GOOD?
29. Can the torn and bloody victim "love" the blood-splashed jaws that rend
him limb from limb?
Note: Again, he speaks to the serfs and workers who were torn asunder and
who continued to respect their tormentors! Can the slave love the master?
Remember, Jesus is the Prince of Slaves.
30. Are we not all predatory animals by instinct? If humans ceased wholly
from preying upon each other, could they continue to exist?
Note: As a matter of fact, YES, WE WOULD "CONTINUE TO EXIST" - and we would
be much better off at that! ALL Militant Socialists advocated using either
brute force, armed revolution or other less violent means, or labor strikes
(which were very violent back then) to smash and change the system - but
then they advocated replacing it or changing it with something much more
along the lines of how things were very long ago, without all the Hobbesian
strife and closed-hearted distrust of everyone. What was actually
accomplished in the USA was the New Deal (prior to that, the Bill of
Rights!)
If you feel that this flies in the very face of "MIGHT IS RIGHT," you are
absolutely correct since you are not understanding the person who wrote it
and his life; you are not understanding what it was like back then and you
do not know the history. As said before, the cry: "MIGHT IS RIGHT," is a
social cancer, a LIE, a hydra-headed tree of unreason with a thousand roots.
ALL Socialist Movements, back when London wrote this, DEBUNKED Might Is
Right for the cancer that it was. Right here, LaVey is either revealing
London's true intent, knew exactly what London was talking about, knew about
the history of such struggles and used the same intent; or he was just
copying something he thought sounded anti-religious which ended up
misleading a whole lot of wannabes. I'd definitely assume LaVey took this
portion to apply it to Christianity and keep it on the religious level. At
the time LaVey wrote this, there were no ruling classes in this sense
exploiting him or anyone else. (In fact, no one ever exploited LaVey: if he
died poor he did so due to his own choices.) Those days of ruling classes
and exploitation, during LaVey's time, were gone: THANKS TO MILITANT LEFTIST
LABOR ACTIVISTS LIKE JACK LONDON! THANKS TO FD ROOSEVELT!
31. Is not "lust and carnal desire" a more truthful term to describe "love"
when applied to the continuance of the race? Is not the "love" of the
fawning scriptures simply a euphemism for sexual activity, or was the "great
teacher" a glorifier of eunuchs?
Note: Don't make the common mistake of taking the word "love" or "sex" out
of context here. Militant Socialists saw "romantic love" as something
decadent, a leisure activity engaged in and written much about by the ruling
classes while the toilers of the world had lives of abject misery and
probably never were loved and could not feel love since they didn't have
time to love anyone. They saw it rightly as glorified sex, nothing more.
32. Love your enemies and do good to them that hate and use you - is this
not the despicable philosophy of the spaniel that rolls upon its back when
kicked?
Note: "that hate and use you." Christianity doesn't "use" anyone, nor does
it "hate" anyone. It's merely a philosophy; "it" can't do anything and its
philosophy can literally be used for anything due to its versatile and
contradictory nature. People do things: things are not done by "-ianities"
or "-isms." Ruling classes used everyone, they had malicious contempt for
the very people who toiled and worked and made everything that these same
ruling classes and their spoiled-rotten children loved so much. And when
kicked, the workers and serfs did roll on their backs. That is, until
London and people like him wrote rants like this and WOKE THEM UP!
33. Hate your enemies with a whole heart, and if a man smite you on one
cheek, SMASH him on the other!; smite him hip and thigh, for
self-preservation is the highest law!
Note: again, taken with history and in context, this is revolutionary talk.
BUT: as far as LaVey taking this, does this say, "smite people willy nilly,
push them around and act superior?" If everyone adopted this philosophy
TODAY, how long do you think bullies would survive? No, it doesn't say that
at all.
34. He who turns the other cheek is a cowardly dog!
35. Give blow for blow, scorn for scorn, doom for doom - with compound
interest liberally added thereunto! Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, aye
four-fold, a hundred-fold!
Note: the Jewish people do preach this! It's a quote from the Old
Testament! I know Jack London knew it and so did the Social
Revolutionaries, many of whom were from Jewish backgrounds. But did LaVey
realize he quoted from the Bible here? And again, for our would-be
neo-Satanist wannabes out there, does this say: "Give blows for nothing,
just be a bully and lord it over anyone you can, be an asshole, give out
scorn for scorn's sake, heap doom for those inferior" (like the freaks in
the movie Freaks for whom LaVey had immense respect)? No, it doesn't say
that. This is all talking about Lex Taliones here, true individual
culpability in action; and the Jews also meant it exactly that way. But for
the neo Satanists that abound these days, what is missing, what often gets
forgotten here, is the Fourth Satanic Statement: Kindness to those that
deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates (and here LaVey did not mean
lust!). With this in mind there is a whole different dimension to the
popular misconception attached to these words today. What happens today is
that people who have suffered as victims use this as their wail, as their
justification to bully others who never did anything to them (the abused
become abusers 99% of the time). Both LaVey's anti-religious intent and
London's revolutionary intent is wholly lost on them.
Make yourself a Terror to your adversary, and when he goeth his way, he will
possess much additional wisdom to ruminate over. Thus shall you make
yourself respected in all the walks of life, and your spirit - your immortal
spirit - shall live, not in an intangible paradise, but in the brains and
sinews of those whose respect you have gained.
Note: the Jewish people have done this, for the most part! The Bolsheviks
surely did this during the Revolution: it was called the Red Terror! Felix
Dzerzhinsky was the head of that. London knew all about this.
THE BOOK OF SATAN IV
36. Life is the great indulgence - death, the great abstinence. Therefore,
make the most of life - HERE AND NOW!
Note: again, this is thoroughly Marxist. They believed that their day had
come and this was their opportunity to either instill this knowledge into
the workers and serfs or die trying.
37. There is no heaven of glory bright, and no hell where sinners roast.
Here and now is our day of torment! Here and now is our day of joy! Here and
now is our opportunity! Choose ye this day, this hour, for no redeemer
liveth!
38. Say unto thine own heart, "I am mine own redeemer."
39. Stop the way of them that would persecute you. Let those who devise
thine undoing be hurled back to confusion and infamy. Let them be as chaff
before the cyclone and after they have fallen rejoice in thine own
salvation.
Note: again, London writes of persecution. The cyclone is the revolution!
40. Then all thy bones shall say pridefully, "Who is like unto me? Have I
not been too strong for mine adversaries? Have I not delivered MYSELF by
mine own brain and body?"
Note: they did deliver themselves.
What would all this have meant to LaVey who lived during the finest days of
New Deal reforms, where any worker could make good money and where 99% of
the people here were thoroughly happy and content? He took portions out of
London's rant and applied them solely to religion.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Essay Three:
OH, but what if Arthur Desmond wrote Might is Right?
Tani Jantsang
There is no certainty as to who the author, Ragnar Redbeard, was though a
strong case has been made for Jack London being the real Redbeard.
The most likely other candidate is a man named Arthur Desmond who was
red-bearded, red-haired and whose poetry was very similar to that written by
Redbeard. Born in New Zealand of an Irish father and an English mother, his
actual date of birth is unknown, 1842 and 1859 being two of the years given.
Now listen to this - it only confirms my Jack London analysis of the
portions of text LaVey took:
While in New Zealand, Desmond stood as a radical candidate for parliament,
organized trade unions, championed the ideas of Henry George, supported the
Maori leader Te Kooti, and edited a radical paper called The Tribune. He'd
have had to champion the Maori against the ruling class Anglos! In case you
don't know it, "radical" means what came to be called "RED," Social
Revolutionary type. It was a very common word used for this back then.
In 1892 Desmond left New Zealand for Sydney, Australia. Here he continued
his political activities, edited Hard Cash and The Standard Bearer, wrote
poetry which influenced the famous Australian poet, Henry Lawson, joined the
Labor Party, and associated with radical personalities like John Dwyer who
had known Marx and Bakunin; that's Karl Marx. His activities are notably
Hard Left Socialistic during this period.
Rumors: he left Australia in 1895, taking with him the unpublished
manuscript of Might is Right; he published Redbeard's Review in London; he
lived in Chicago where he co-authored a book called Rival Caesars with Will
H. Dilg (using the pseudonym "Desmond Dilg"); he edited the Lion's Paw under
the name of Richard Thurland. His date of death is not certain. One version
has him dying in Palestine in 1918 "while on service with General Allenby's
troops," another version claims he died in 1926, again in Palestine. On the
other hand, some say he had been running a bookshop in Chicago as late as
1927. And there are also weird stories such as that he was really Ambrose
Bierce and was shot during the Mexican Revolution. The fact is, there is no
definite evidence that Redbeard and Desmond were the same individual....
Some say that if Desmond was Redbeard, then his views must have undergone a
drastic change toward the end of his stay in Australia. Might Is Right
doesn't seem like a manifesto of a political radical intent on the
"emancipation of the workers." Oh no? OH YES IT IS! You can't use an
analysis based on PRESENT DAY behavior of "liberals" and not at all on the
REAL revolutionaries who behaved very differently.
If you cannot conceive of any contemporary saviors of the working classes
recommending Might is Right as required reading, (even though it is claimed
that it influenced some of the early Wobblies), then note this: key word
"CONTEMPORARY." The proletariat movement was one of brute force and violent
revolutionary take over - and subsequent purges! This is something modern
day pseudo-Marxists prefer to have amnesia about.
And if it has no appeal for those sentimental "Centralized Government
do-gooders" who profess care and love for ALL of mankind, then note that
they are the MODERN DAY, so-called "left wing," sick with self-castrating
liberalism, and in deep self-denial about, as Lenin would say it: "What
Needs To Be Done."
Redbeard sets the theme of his book in a note: "All Else Is Error." "The
natural world is a world of war; the natural man is a warrior; the natural
law is tooth and claw. All else is error. A condition of combat everywhere
exists. We are born into perpetual conflict. It is our inheritance even as
it was the inheritance of previous generations. The 'condition of combat'
may be disguised with the holy phrases of St. Francis, or the soft,
deceitful doctrines of a Kropotkin or a Tolstoy, but it cannot eventually be
evaded by any human being...it rules all things...and it decides all who
imagine policemanized populations, internationally regulated tranquility,
and State organized industrialism so joyful, blessed and divine."
LaVey chose to put in something about the traditions of the past and how
they become stifling NOW. Things must CHANGE. This was all very true for
revolutionary minded people back when Desmond lived - but it was NOT true
for people in the 1950's and 1960's living in the USA at all. FAR FROM IT!
Those were the GOOD DAYS, life was a wonder to be lived!
In this war of each against all (Pure Hobbes rubbish) there are only a small
number of victors. They alone conquer power and riches though it is not
THEY who actually DO the conquering; it is their obeying yes-sir mentality
soldiers who do it FOR them! And if the soldiers shoot their own generals
and execute their Kings? That's revolution.
He goes on to say that this is because "The great mass of men who inhabit
the world of today have no initiative, no originality or independence of
thought, but are mere subjective individualities, who never had the
slightest voice in fashioning the ideas that they formally revere." The
"average man...is a born thrall habituated from childhood to be governed by
others." That's exactly what Lenin said - which is why the masses had to
have a centralized revolutionary government to GUIDE them. He said that the
majority of the common people, the workers and serfs, can never become free
since they have no TIME to even THINK OF freedom. Felix Dzerzhinsky also
wrote of this situation. He also agreed that a Centralized Revolutionary
Government had to lead these masses and TEACH THEM!
Although Redbeard claims to scorn moral codes, stating that "all arbitrary
codes of right and wrong are insolent invasions of personal liberty" and
that greatness lies "in being beyond and above all moral measurements," he
is, still, a whopper of a moralist! He makes plain his antagonism to
Judeo-Christian morality, but his whole approach is shot through with the
perennial Christian moral desire to redeem the human race from "evil." For
him, what is "natural" is "right" and the further human beings get away from
"Nature," the further they depart from "right." The question is how
Redbeard would square his belief that "every breathing being" is a
differentiated ego with his demand that all these differentiated egos accept
the COMMON goal of being "natural"-as he defines it. If you are unique, then
what it is in your "nature to be" will not be the same as what it is in the
"nature of other individuals to be." Indeed, what is natural" for you may
well be "unnatural" for others, and a collision unavoidable. Redbeard's
interpretation of "social Darwinism" clearly allows for this, but his
morality of Nature equally clearly negates it.
In fact, this contradiction is starkly illustrated by Redbeard himself when
he talks about his PURELY CHRISTIAN IDEAS OF sexual relations between men
and women. On the same page he proclaims that "moral principles...are
artificial human enactments, but not necessarily natural, honest or true.
Moral codes are the black terror of all dastards," and then goes on to state
that "readers must distinctly understand that sexual morality is nowise
condemned in these pages." WHY NOT? This is because "women are frail beings
at the best of times...they must be held in thorough subjection" for "woe
unto the Race if ever these lovable creatures should break loose from
mastership, and become the rulers or equals of Man." He follows this
warning with a denunciation of "sexual degeneracy," "promiscuity," and other
"evils," in a language redolent of the SAME EXACT Christian morality he
IMAGINES he's so against! HA! "If our modern Sodoms," he writes, "were all
razed to the ground, how Nature in all her perennial purity would rejoice
exultantly!" Substitute "God" for "Nature" and what religious moralist
would object? NONE.
Redbeard's dualistic and laughable view of "the nature" of women" is in no
way consistent either. In one paragraph of his chapter on "Love, Women and
War" he repeats his opinion of women as being "incapable of
self-mastership...mere babies in worldly concerns" (that's because Christian
Patriarchy tried to keep them that way!), but in the next paragraph writes
that "when their passions are stirred women have performed deeds of heroism
(and terror) that even a man with nerves of steel would hesitate at...They
have led armies and been criminals of the darkest dye." DARKest? a PURELY
Christian mind-set, thoroughly ingrained. Adam is good, bright, clean and
white. Eve is filthy and dark and dangerous: but sexy too. In claiming
that women are destined to be "subjects" and at the same time are capable of
being "rulers," Redbeard effectively destroys his own case for male
superiority and, what is more, seems oblivious of the fact that he is doing
it! Which proves MY: all Christians are oblivious of their dualism and
their contradictions. They are MORONS. Redbeard's view of women, the
dualist view, is IDENTICAL to that put forth by the Malleus Malificarum.
The "good ones" are frail and helpless; but the "evil ones" are 100 times
more dangerous and cunning than any males. Christian dualism all over
again. They can never escape this sickness.
Redbeard is also a racist but his racism undermines the logic of his
"philosophy of power." He writes of the capitalist that he can 'do as he
likes with his own,' as long as he has the power. He may own the earth...if
he wants to, and he may buy or sell men and nations if he feels inclined to
or thinks it profitable. There is in Nature no limit to his energies or
ambitions. All that is needed is power equal to his energies or ambitions.
All that is needed is power equal to the design. But the same principles may
be acted upon by any other man or association of men, and in the conflict
that ensues fitness is proved--absolutely and without doubt. The 'rights of
the rich' are what they can maintain and the 'rights of the poor' are not
less. No bounds are set to the accumulation of property, and none whatever
to its re-distribution." If, "all that is needed" for the survival of the
fittest is "power equal to the design" and "the same principles may be acted
upon by any other man or association of men," this must logically apply to
all human beings. If I can do as I like with my own as long as I have the
power, then it does not matter what race or color I am for I have shown that
I am the powerful one. Redbeard's racism, like his sexism, is completely
inconsistent with his own "philosophy of power" since he can only defend it
by using COLLECTIVIST notions that deny his individualist premise that there
are no "rights" outside the "might" of the individual.
Might Is Right is a work flawed by major contradictions. Like the Christian
bible, it can be used as a source for the most incompatible views.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Essay Four:
If All You Have is Ragnar, Then You have Nothing!
By Brendan Barnett and Kari Nevala
If all you have is Ragnar Redbeard, then you don't have anything!
You don't have anything Satanic at all. You have an anti-Christian wail
that we Satanists are sick of hearing. Like hearing the wails of people
stuck in a fucking sickhouse. Get a clue: we aren't defined by
Christianity, for OR against. We are Satanists - something ELSE, something
OTHER something OUTSIDE of Christianity. It is not for no reason that we
speak of how gut deep Christian childhood conditioning, cultural
conditioning and indoctrination in Christian values runs: we are aware of it
(and sick of it). Like who wants to hear wwaaaaa Jehova or wwhhaaaaa Jesus?
No one I know.
Why are we sick of hearing this wail? I can hear that question resounding
in Satanic realms but only among the very few who didn't get a clue yet.
Why?
Because it is actually saying the damned pope is right! That's why! It's
saying that almost 2000 years of Christian idiocy is right, too. They had
might: ergo they were right? Bull fucking shit!
Ragnar, in the way LaVey used it and in the way neo-Satanists gravitate
toward it, is a WAILING SCREAMING person obviously very hurt in a very deep
way by the CHRISTIANITY that MIGHTILY conquered his own heart and broke him
forever more.
Ragnar doesn't even recognize that Jews and JHVH didn't DO anything to his
people. HIS OWN PEOPLE did it! They Christianized THEMSELVES! Certainly
there is no entity named Jehova that did it. Jews didn't do this at all -
in fact, Jews are NOT Christians! Jews DO NOT HAVE Jehova as their god!
They have ADONAI! OH, some Cruxtoid moron didn't know that? Ja Heve means
"male/female." It reads: "And then they began to call THEMSELVES male and
female." In the Cruxtoid version it reads "And then they began to call upon
Jehova." MORON CRUXTOIDS couldn't even get THAT right. And the wailing
wannabes that "like Ragnar" only like it because that is ALL they CAN
identify with: rebellion against their OWN PARENTS AND SICKENING CULTURE.
They embody a twisted broken creature filled with unreleased rage, fear,
self-loathing and guilt. SURE they hate it: they hate THEMSELVES.
Comrade Kari has interpreted or deconstructed "might is right" in two
different ways. These are not the usual ways Cruxtoids think of or read
things. They seem unable to really THINK in this sense.
The deconstruction of the dualist and Cruxtoid reading of "might is right"
gets flipped into the opposite one, and it also makes it more brutal and
real to piss off those who adore the brutality of the original context.
They love the brutality because they have BEEN BRUTALIZED WITHIN AND
WITHOUT! THUS do they only recognize brutality as being powerful!
The first interpretation deals with evolution:
Kari interprets "might" to mean "competence, effectiveness -- that which
works."
Kari interprets "right" to mean "that which is justified." (The ENDS
justify the MEANS?)
So here "might is right" is translated into "all that works is justified,"
and further into "all that exists is justified". A strong evolutionary
statement, NOT as "survival of the fittest," but as the survival of all of
that which works. It's even more brutal than the original idea in a sense,
and it's a great mockery against the "strength adoring" ideals and idols
(such as its original writer had). Yeah, "strength idolizers" seldom HAVE
strength. For if they HAD it, they'd not think about it too much! (Only
starving people think about food all the time....)
The second interpretation deals a bit more with ethics and behavior, though
it is very similar.
Kari translates "might" to mean "ability." Kari translates "right" to mean
"limitation". So "might is right" becomes "ability is the only limitation".
That is the only real rule in the game of life. It's the denial of the what
we are told is of "importance and value" and even a denial of "laws and
norms." It is notably an anarchistic statement. It's a romantic reach out
for the extreme experience. A Dionysian feverish orgy. A repulsive horror
for an Apollonian mind.
These types of people will forever be BARRED from the Beauty of that which
is Satanic. Theirs will be as UGLY a landscape as the gray pretaloka
Stepfordesque world of the Cruxtoids. Skeletal people in a world with only
shades of dull grays, GRASPING and RAGING at their own existence: THAT is
the only world they inhabit. That is certainly NOT Satanic in any way,
shape or form.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"BriciMacCarbaid" <bricima...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9d7279d1.01112...@posting.google.com...
People's Commissar
TJ
"Dr. Michael A. Aquino" <xe...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011121021920...@nso-mg.aol.com...
Satan
Natas
"People's Commissar" <tanija...@myself.com> wrote in message
news:tvokkc2...@corp.supernews.com...
William Edward Woody
> >O.K., I have a question. And I'm not picking sides, I don't give a
> >damn if ZS is next HP in TOS or whatever. Here's my question: SO WHAT
> >if the TOS [or any other org] runs its politics like the Court of
> >Versailles? Isn't that SATANIC?
>
> Oh yes, but is it Setian?
>
> If you don't know the difference, you might as well abandon this line of
> inquiry.
Frankly, I would love to know what you think the difference is, aside
from the fact that TOS worships Set, which some have said is the actual
ancient reference from which the Christians fashioned Satan.
(And I would hope that TOS thinks it's somehow "satanic"--else, why post
the entire diatribe here on alt.satanism?)
People's Commissar
TOS is serious initiatory organization. They are not MLM scam, not out to
lure suckers to work for them for free, not out to just take your money.
They do not make their texts public. If they wanted to make money off it,
they could. They obviously don't do that.
They focus on Becoming, on actualizing potentials within yourself, not just
in laid back becoming (both actually are Becoming - one is yin, the other is
yang). An example: zygote becomes embryo; embryo becomes offspring;
offspring becomes - you get the picture. There is no effort in this.
Offspring becomes a child with musical ability. Still yin. ToS seems to
take it to the step where the child with this innate ability, this potential
(as yet unrealized), DOES something with it. That's becoming too, but it's
yang. The potential becomes manifest - the potential is hidden (yin) but
when it becomes manifest, it is visible (yang). That's my interpretation of
what they are about, generally speaking. If you were to join the ToS, I
believe you'd find what I'm saying in there.
If you don't show you are actually doing something along those lines, they
let you go. They don't want you. Like any legit religious order, they take
their stuff seriously, they take their "stations" seriously and if you do
things that are a breach of the order, they don't want you if you don't have
a damned good explanation for the actions. This would be the standard norm
for ANY religious organization.
The COS is not a LHP organization - there is nothing LHP in it at all.
Theologians will agree that the Satan in the SB is inversionist Christian in
essense, emphasis on some kind of inverse Catholic mass, speaking Latin and
all. The so-called sins, etc. etc. The ToS is not that - not at all.
They view the Seti Priesthood of Egypt as a rulership of Egypt where a LHP
priesthood ruled the country. I'd say that Amun Priests were also LHP - but
it's the TOS, not the TOA. :) They hypothesize that MAYBE "Satan" somes
from Set and en - but this is a false etymology unless Set was female
(en) - el would be Hebrew ending, not en, like Sama-el, Azaz-el (demonic
personages in Hebrew) - however - the ancient world was filled with puns -
so it might have been a pun - it might have even been said by NON Hebrews
since many people got thrown out of Egypt by the Seti rulers and most of
them did NOT speak Hebrew. Set may come from the Egyptian Sati just as
easily - and that's really ancient. Just as likely the Yadavas
(proto-Hebrews) may have inversed the words Sat, Satya, Sattva etc and
turned words that stand for Truth into a word that meant liar, accuser, etc.
The "Tan" part of the word in Sanskrit definitely carried over in a more
positive light with ancient Hebrews and also in a negative light: Taniam
(their own Adepts) positive; Nehushtan (the actual name of the Serpent)
negative.
The Cos is an org that takes it all as a joke of some kind, like kitsch,
Addam's Family, devil kitsch. They are atheists for the most part
(officially). They are all about outrageous porn stuff (cf Diabolica
magazine), or even Leyba's outrageous acts (cutting Baphomets into his back
with razors while he is urinated on, on a stage) or a kind of misplaced
"might" hangup, dressing up as things in costumes (that Jewish-Nazi mystique
thing), and whatever else. There is nothing serious or LHP about them.
They never claimed there was after 1975.
When people (including myself) say that "you Setian believe that Set talked
and wrote a book" it's just a flame against a Setian that flamed the person
saying it.
The ToS is "satanic" in that it's genuinely LHP in some respects. Same
here, the Wiccans in our SR org do not call themselves Satanists, but they
are in a LHP organization. LHP is generally called "satanic." Same for the
Temple of Lylyth. It would be called satanic and it is satanic LHP; but
they call themselves something else. Btw, you realize that the Director of
that organization, with whom we were having a good convo here and elsewhere,
is going to use what we said in his course in college (he teaches). ?
Hope that helps. I'm surprised no one from ToS answered you. Really
surprised.
TJ
--
Satanic Reds http://satanicreds.says.it
Or, http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/
Unique - check it out!
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/dd-ad.html
Dark Tradition: http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/art-dt.html
Member of the Satanic Council
http://www.geocities.com/sataniccouncil/mainmenu.html
Dark Doctrines Prometheus part of Satanic Reds Org.
http://www.apodion.com/vad/dark/
Michelet-Satanism:Temple of Lylyth: www.lylyth.org
Guardians of Darkness www.darktradition.com
SLAVA NAM! POWER TO THE WORKING PEOPLE!
"William Edward Woody" <wo...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:woody-6929EB....@newssvr14-ext.news.prodigy.com...
People's Commissar
"Kori Houghton" <koriho...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6db9a636.0111...@posting.google.com...
> > Or should we have the supposed Christian ethics [fairness, empathy,
> > understanding, cooperation] as a Satanic political base from which to
> > operate??
Since when do Christians practice any of that? Since never. Any half assed
study of real Christian deeds would show them to be monstrous - even their
attitude toward newborn innocent babies is horrendous.
>
> I wouldn't go so far as to label these concepts as "Christian". Not
> all of them have to do with ethics, either, IMO. Cooperation can
> exist among animals of the same species, so that isn't always
> un-Satanic. Fairness is relative. Empathy: you either got it or not
> (like "style"). Understanding? Does a Satanist aim to be, uh, like,
> a bit thick?
>
You are 100% right. Understanding what KIND of animals we really are is a
start - we are social animals. Labeling biological realities with
moralistic words is a mistake.
> >
> > If there are no ethics or values in
> > Satanism, then anything goes. Right?
No, even the COS has ethics, values and rules. Try killing an animal and
see how fast the COS boots you out and probably calls the cops. Someone is
confusing nihilistic anarchy with Satanism.
>
> Kill all the Lawyers! heehee
Nah, let's slip and fall at McDonalds and use the lawyers to sue them first.
:)
>
> Kori
The Honorable Judge Ludvig Prinn
>surprised.
I'm more surprised that anyone actually interested is waiting to be spoonfed
instead of reading the public website which answers all their questions.
Hathor
> >> >O.K., I have a question. And I'm not picking sides, I don't give a
> >> >damn if ZS is next HP in TOS or whatever. Here's my question: SO WHAT
> >> >if the TOS [or any other org] runs its politics like the Court of
> >> >Versailles? Isn't that SATANIC?
> >>
> >> Oh yes, but is it Setian?
The problem I have with Politics and this sort of power-play, is when
religion gets thrown into the pot, which is what the ToS does.
When power is conferred upon individuals because other people already
in power are supposedly ‘Recognizing’ the will of Set
(here is where the religion comes in), I myself am extremely worried
about something the Temple calls “spinning-out”.
Spinning-out implies something pretty negative in the Temple, but I
think that most people who have been labeled this way by the Temple,
would be more likely to interpret it as ‘waking-up’. I
prefer to attempt to see it as value neutral, with the negative or
positive aspects being rather subjective. I’ll call it a
‘parting-of-ways’ since it really is a situation where an
individual’s ethos and those of the Temple administrators (the
priesthood) come into conflict.
Now I don’t think it is very interesting to look at this
parting-of-ways when it happens blatantly and spectacularly, because
then the person and the Temple part ways. Instead, I wonder about
those people who have parted ways with the original tenets of the
Temple, and yet keep it hidden so that they may remain in power.
Remaining in power allows you to Recognize-to-power other people who
share your agenda.
This is all very hypothetical, mind you.
If I were in the Temple, I would worry that under the guise of
‘the will of Set’ people just might actually be promoting
their own agendas, and possibly in that act sacrificing the original
tenets of the religion/philosophy.
I consider the Crystal Tablet to be the bedrock of the religion, not
the Ruby Tablet, because when a member is recognized from the first to
second degree it is based on his/her study and understanding of the
CT. What is contained in the CT is what the initiate signs up for and
should be referecnced periodically to keep in touch with what I think
could be called the will of Set.
The Temple has 2 things going for it, which can keep abuses of power
in check; extremely smart initiates, and a body of work that promotes
individual divination, Xeper and personal power to ALL members of the
Temple regardless of their position within the power structure. The
power structure of the Temple is only important in the Temple itself,
and maybe to a few sycophants in the occult world.
The only religious part of the Org that cannot be disagreed with, is
that religious Setianism is a requirement to hold the level of
priest(ess). This is important.
The Priesthood is responsible for ‘Recognizing’ other
people into the Org. and also has a vote in the corporation. They
‘own’ the religion and can excommunicate at will.
As long as the initiates in power (the pristhood) conform to the ideal
in the primary body of work (or at least follow the 80/20 rule where
everyone agrees with 80% and disagrees with 20% but the exact matters
that are agreed/disagreed can vary from person to person), and as long
as everyone keeps alert for abuses of power, then there
SHOULDN’T ever be anything to worry about.
I can see that a religious priesthood is necessary in that anyone with
power should feel that they have to answer to something that is not of
themselves. In this case, Set. It is expected that this is the
‘teeth’ that keeps the priesthood from abusing
power… but with what is self-identified as a LHP religion, this
form of inhibition may fall into a very murky area.
Religion is a strong and powerful motivator, but then traditionally
religion over-rides logic, and rational thinking. This is almost part
of the definition of what makes a religion a religion, and not simply
a science, school of thought, or a philosophy.
Maybe that is why we are seeing leaks from the Temple, maybe someone
feels there are abuses of power occurring where the tenets of the
Religion are being subordinated to particular individuals agendas.
Maybe the ‘leaks’ and entities like Radio-Free-Setian are
occurring because some people see what they believe to be bad for the
Temple as a whole, and are simply trying to enforce good behavior in
the governing members by showing that they are being watched, and
their actions will be known to the outside world.
All very hypothetically, of course.
--Hathor
circe
> bricima...@yahoo.com (BriciMacCarbaid) wrote:
> > O.K., I have a question. And I'm not picking sides, I don't give a
> > damn if ZS is next HP in TOS or whatever. Here's my question: SO WHAT
> > if the TOS [or any other org] runs its politics like the Court of
> > Versailles? Isn't that SATANIC?
>
> LOL.
The difference is Satan and Set. Satan has already sat with Set, and Set is
still sitting with Satan. That's the only difference, that, and, if you are
over 25 and still admit to believeing in either one then you have some
serious issues! Who, with a straight face and still being expected to be
taken seriously, is going to tell anyone "Oh I'm and satanist" or "Oh I'm a
setian!" in the 21st century?!
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
People's Commissar
What you are conveying here - despite the parts impossible to read :), is a
counterrevolutionary take over from within. Trojan Horse. I recall a post
I made.....
One can fake the Setian knowledge, rise to power, promote others on his side
that also learn how to fake the Setian knowledge.
I really don't think making anti-Setian websites or plastering it on here is
going to change the ToS from within. CoS files could be said to be anti
Cos. Is it? Cos people wrote it. It's put up there by people who got
ripped off and lied to.
Does the Radio Free Setian website intend to warn people away from joining
the ToS? The CoS files is there with the intent of making people check into
things before they spend a c-note for nothing - literally for nothing. I
think both Ole and Vad said that up front on there.
Let us say that some people in power are under the will of Set. But others
are under the Will of something else, eg Osiris, but know how to pretend.
Who is supposed to know this? The Osiris faction would be able to recognize
their own and promote them. This seems to be what you are saying.
I don't see that the leaders of the Radio Free Set thing are at issue with
this; tho others might be. They got kicked out for having an enemy bring
them to a conclave. Simple. If they were not kicked out, they admitted
already that they'd have remained in the ToS. Now, it may have been true
that loner type or priest of Osiris in Egypt long ago was friends with an
established Priest of Set. But Set killed Osiris. Bottom line. Would the
Priesthood of Set, becoming aware of this alliance, NOT ask the Setian to
cut it off, or more?
Just a theory.
TJ
--
Satanic Reds http://satanicreds.says.it
Or, http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/
Unique - check it out!
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/dd-ad.html
Dark Tradition: http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/art-dt.html
Member of the Satanic Council
http://www.geocities.com/sataniccouncil/mainmenu.html
Dark Doctrines Prometheus part of Satanic Reds Org.
http://www.apodion.com/vad/dark/
Michelet-Satanism:Temple of Lylyth: www.lylyth.org
Guardians of Darkness www.darktradition.com
SLAVA NAM! POWER TO THE WORKING PEOPLE!
"Hathor" <inno...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6b0e64e6.01112...@posting.google.com...
People's Commissar
not that easy to find, that have a LOT more information. Information enough
that when I read them online for the first time, I knew absolutely that 100%
of what was previously said about the ToS were baldfaced lies. And no,
Lud - I'm NOT used to people lying when asked "What is THIS about." That is
not asking "What do YOU FEEL about this." Those are two distinct
questions. I have known people in professional positions that HATED each
other - yet if I asked one what the other was doing, what his project was
about, I got a 100% objective and truthful answer.
So, having once thought, along with so many others, that Dr. A was this
terrible monster that kept picking on poor Anton and ripping off his stuff -
I find that it was Anton that tried to frame Dr. A in a cowardly fashion,
malicious to the hilt - over NOTHING, I find that Dr. A. did nothing to
Anton that he most definitely did NOT rip anything off.
Likewise, too many people think, because of titles handed out for it and
websites by Priests bragging about titles handed out for it - thought, and
still think that the Dark Tradition was somehow part of the CoS, the
foundation of it, fundamental to it. WRONG. Online as I was doing one
thing with right hand and quite another thing with left hand, I played along
with this just fine. It was obvious to SOME folks (Yuschenko) what I was
really up to. That's not their stuff, never was. People joining and
thinking it's about that, finding it's about nothing got a lot of people
turned off to LHP in general - and this was bad for those people. WE don't
use any of their stuff and never did. They most definitely DID use our
stuff - and it lured a lot of people out of c-notes - and in the LHP that's
being waylaid off your path. PATH. Has nothing to do per se with money.
The path on the Wheel of Life is taken VERY seriously by us. It doesn't
belong in an org that is a scam that has no clue what Path even is. Our
publications do not use their stuff and never did. Their pubications DID
use our stuff. There is a big clue.
People who think the usual about ToS, are simply told that repeatedly by the
CoS. They are told it in a convincing fashion, very politely. Heh.
People need to go to www.xeper.org and start clicking. And Setians need to
put that in their signatures. I said the same thing to the Lylyth org - use
a SIG.
TJ
"The Honorable Judge Ludvig Prinn" <judge...@aol.commonsense> wrote in
message news:20011122110831...@mb-ba.aol.com...
William Edward Woody
> >surprised.
>
> I'm more surprised that anyone actually interested is waiting to be spoonfed
> instead of reading the public website which answers all their questions.
I asked what the original poster thought the difference was, not to be
spoonfed myself.
I can read the material on the web site. Have already done so. And I've
already drawn my own conclusions as to what *I* think--but that doesn't
mean I know a God damned thing. So, when someone pops up and says "if
you don't know the difference"--I'd like to know what they mean.
Sometimes you see the picture and you see two faces. Sometimes you see a
vase. I'd like to know what other people think--not because I need help
walking my own path, but because I am curious as to how other people
approach their religious and/or spiritual beliefs.
If I didn't give a fuck about what y'all thought, I wouldn't be wasting
my time wading through the threads that more or less amount to a bunch
of chimpanzees flinging their dung at each other.
William Edward Woody
> "Kori Houghton" <koriho...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:6db9a636.0111...@posting.google.com...
> > > Or should we have the supposed Christian ethics [fairness, empathy,
> > > understanding, cooperation] as a Satanic political base from which to
> > > operate??
>
> Since when do Christians practice any of that? Since never. Any half assed
> study of real Christian deeds would show them to be monstrous - even their
> attitude toward newborn innocent babies is horrendous.
The sins of the father are not visited on the son. Just because
Christianity was a harbringer of death and destruction under a secular
Vatican who was interested more in world conquest than with religious
piety back in the 12th century does not mean Christianity is devoid of
ethics today.
Likewise, the Greeks used to abandon their children to die in the
wilderness if those children were undesirable--that does not negate all
of Greek culture, nor does that make modern day Greece devoid of care
for their children.
Anonymous
>
> So, having once thought, along with so many others, that Dr. A was this
> terrible monster that kept picking on poor Anton and ripping off his stuff -
> I find that it was Anton that tried to frame Dr. A in a cowardly fashion,
> malicious to the hilt - over NOTHING, I find that Dr. A. did nothing to
> Anton that he most definitely did NOT rip anything off.
about as good as Egan's, Courageous Jessica's, Ron Mershon's, John
Shaw's, and of course YOURS! Keep sucking up Tani! Keep SUCKING and
don't forgat to SWALLOW!
--
"Make threats to ME little dickless wasteproduct who CANT FUCK and CANT GET
A GIRL, COME HERE and make threats - and I WILL BLOW YOUR FUCKING HEAD
OFF - self defense YOU FUCKING DEGENERATE PIECE OF SHIT! YOU GOD DAMNED LIMP
MOTHER FUCKING WHITE NIGGER PIECE OF SHIT. THREATEN ME and
I'll FUCKING WASTE YOU. NO FUCKING BLUFF COME HERE and make threats. YOU
have made AN ENEMY FOR LIFE you fucking little BASTARD. FOR LIFE! DIE you
fucking piece of shit. You project your IQ 70 LOOT LOOZER waste of a non-life
onto me? You and your fucking trailor park 7/11 TRASH - YOUR MOTHER IS A
WHORE, YOUR FATHER IS AN ALCOHOLIC. Sincerely, YOUR DESTRUCTIVE DESIRE. HOW
DOES IT FEEL you fucking WIMP? WIMP! MALACHOI! NOW; GO FUCK JILL. DREAM
about it you little wimpy waste product. WHINE to Jeff MY JEWISH FRIEND FOR
30 years! WHINE to JEFF, officer in the ADL. WHINE TO ME who spied on neo
Nazis. GO AHEAD. LOSER,WIMP. YOU have made an enemy FOR LIFE (deleted) FOR
LIFE. I'm very very patient. Hey, would you like Jeff's ADDRESS so you can
COME HERE boy? EH? LEMME KNOW!! MAKE MY FUCKING DAY, PLEASE. And CLORE
is a LIAR. Those who are important, NOW KNOW IT thank you SO MUCH Clore. THANK
YOU. Thank you THANK YOU. You did the one thing I could NOT DO."
-Tani Jantsang doing what she does best
______________________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = http://www.binaries.net
People's Commissar
The point is that Christians even today, say one thing about all their fine
ethics and morality - but they DO quite another thing. They do not practice
fairness, empathy, understanding, cooperation or anything else like that,
generally speaking - as a group. As Satanists viewing man as an animal, the
real animal he is, we WOULD be more inclined to practice those things
because we biologically ARE social animals - we are mammals, we feel things.
It's almost not in the nature or inner-heart of people that would tend to
BELIEVE in such things as Salvation, Heaven/Hell, sin at birth, Jesus-True
God - to be tolerant in any sense of the word. Accept Jesus or you ARE
Damned? - that right there is a Green Light Big Divine OK to exterminte the
Damned - after all, even genocide ain't as bad as what will happen to them
in Hell. That is the SUBtext to their entire world-view, Woody. It's the
"WE are going to be in Heaven - but THEY are going to go to Hell" mentality.
Hell is far worse than a concentration camp. And if it's ok with God to
damn the damned forever in eternal Hell, well? And my gawd they believe
they are absolutely RIGHT when they get on a crusade or mission - that ol
manifest destiny kicks right in. They never question, or seem to have the
capacity to challenge, their own convictions. They just don't - generally
speaking.
That is the subtext to their belief - this is the subtext that CALLS OUT to
them and touches their hearts. It is the usually unspoken real thing they
DO feel/believe - and CAN act on - have acted on. Lately, it's not been so
unspoken. They're saying it on the electric propaganda tube (TV). They
have millions of followers.
I never said (or thought) Pagan societies were wonderful. They were as BAD
AS, if not worse, than Christian ones with their blood sacrifices and divine
priests (reminds me of His Divine Shadow - a universe built on the most
hellish conditions in Lexx - sci fi show, on the orders of His Divine
Shadow - who it turns out is not even a human being - it's an insect's
spirit out to destroy the humans in the universe by having them destroy
themselves while slowly feeding IT- god it's AWFUL.).
Pagano-Christianity - these go together with their walking and talking gods
and sons of gods. Judeo-Islam goes together with their no-idol no-name ONE
god.
LHP is a lot more like Shamanism, Taoism, Tantra, etc. And Satanism IS part
of the LHP. Western brand Satanism would be a rebellion against any and all
Divine Tyranny. But it's not against Deism. Deists have historically been
very much against Theists - they are not the same at all.
TJ
--
Satanic Reds http://satanicreds.says.it
Or, http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/
Unique - check it out!
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/dd-ad.html
Dark Tradition: http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/art-dt.html
Member of the Satanic Council
http://www.geocities.com/sataniccouncil/mainmenu.html
Dark Doctrines Prometheus part of Satanic Reds Org.
http://www.apodion.com/vad/dark/
Michelet-Satanism:Temple of Lylyth: www.lylyth.org
Guardians of Darkness www.darktradition.com
SLAVA NAM! POWER TO THE WORKING PEOPLE!
"William Edward Woody" <wo...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:woody-05AE1D....@newssvr13-ext.news.prodigy.com...
Anonymous
>
> Commie Mommy wrote:
> >
> > So, having once thought, along with so many others, that Dr. A was this
> > terrible monster that kept picking on poor Anton and ripping off his stuff -
> > I find that it was Anton that tried to frame Dr. A in a cowardly fashion,
> > malicious to the hilt - over NOTHING, I find that Dr. A. did nothing to
> > Anton that he most definitely did NOT rip anything off.
>
> And Dr. "A" never provided any proof either only his "word" which is
> about as good as Egan's, Courageous Jessica's, Ron Mershon's, John
> Shaw's, and of course YOURS! Keep sucking up Tani! Keep SUCKING and
> don't forgat to SWALLOW!
And before you take the convenient shot at correcting my spelling of
"forgot": get that Vulcan cock back in your mouth GRANDMA! Nobody told
you to stop SUCKING!!!
--
Michael Aquino (49% English, 49% Italian, 2% Vulcan)
-Dr Michael Aquino, the only man to ever get a blow job from Tani Jantsang
William Edward Woody
> The point is that Christians even today, say one thing about all their fine
My original point was that suggesting a "half-assed study of real
Christian deeds" negates any current or future actions is silly. Holding
the fellow who lives down the block from me accountable for the fact
that his spiritual ancestors wiped mine out four hundred years ago in
California strikes me as silly--there are plenty of things he does
already that annoy me that holding him accountable for events that
happened before we were born is silly.
Further, to suggest that <<all>> Christians behave in a particular way
is to stereotype. And, with all due respect, isn't that the very sort of
thing that most people who study or follow alternative religions
complain the most about Christians?
To suggest all Christians violate their moral code is no different than
to suggest all Satanists eat babies or that all Wiccans are fat lesbians.
> ... As Satanists viewing man as an animal, the
> real animal he is, we WOULD be more inclined to practice those things
> because we biologically ARE social animals - we are mammals, we feel things.
Not all mammals are "social" in ways which we as a society consider
"reasonable." Further, we as human beings have not always lived with the
same moral or ethical codes we currently live by. Lions eat their
cubs--and Greeks abandoned their unwanted children to the elements to
die.
So suggesting that our morality or ethics is defined solely by our
animal nature overlooks the great variety of moral standards and moral
codes that have been practiced by human beings over our history.
Further, we can get no clues from our closest relatives: the variations
in social interaction between the half-dozen or so of our closest
evolutionary bretheren provide very few clues as to our mating rituals
or what the natural state of our society would be without interfearance
from imposed ethical standards.
> It's almost not in the nature or inner-heart of people that would tend to
> BELIEVE in such things as Salvation, Heaven/Hell, sin at birth, Jesus-True
> God - to be tolerant in any sense of the word. ...
Anthropologists studying neanerthols have discovered the remains of
flowers next to their burried dead. There is debate as if this
represents just a mourning ritual, or if it indicates that our primitive
ancestors and our primitive cousins had religion.
> I never said (or thought) Pagan societies were wonderful. They were as BAD
> AS, if not worse, than Christian ones with their blood sacrifices and divine
> priests...
Sure. But to presume that all Pagans were terrible, as to presume all
Christians are terrible, because some societies practiced brutal rituals
or violated their theological principles: isn't that throwing out the
baby with the bath water?
> ... (reminds me of His Divine Shadow - a universe built on the most
> hellish conditions in Lexx - sci fi show, on the orders of His Divine
> Shadow - who it turns out is not even a human being - it's an insect's
> spirit out to destroy the humans in the universe by having them destroy
> themselves while slowly feeding IT- god it's AWFUL.).
Great show, Lexx. Follow it when I can.
> LHP is a lot more like Shamanism, Taoism, Tantra, etc. And Satanism IS part
> of the LHP. Western brand Satanism would be a rebellion against any and all
> Divine Tyranny. But it's not against Deism. Deists have historically been
> very much against Theists - they are not the same at all.
See, I have no problem with following whatever path sings to one's own
heart--given that the first rule of freedom, that your freedom to move
your fist ends at the tip of my nose, is observed.
But I do disagree with blanket characterizations or with some of the
logic which strikes me as faulty.
Kori Houghton
Okay. What *can* a person admit to believing in the 21st century and
still be taken seriously? That the human race should aspire to being
unthinking, overweight and card-carrying members of Costco? We
moderns really hate over-achievers, don't we?
Kori (way past 25, but still a few points shy of being 100% cynical)
People's Commissar
Every single resignation letter, letters from time-honored Priesthood;
LaVey's own letters, Diane's - there is proof 100% in there. You never read
it.
I don't suck up to anyone - and the sooner you realize that, the wiser you
will be. I also despise people who suck up, or try to suck up, TO ME. Now,
many people clearly see this. You don't because you are stuck in the
paradigm where everyone HAS to be sucking up, or being sucked up to. YOU
are a suckup. You are very disturbed that I see both cos and tos
objectively? You hate the tos so much. WHY?
I can see why Tony hated the TOS now - clearly. Aquino exposed him to
EVERYONE IN the cos, written letters shown to EVERYONE - exposing Tony as a
con artist, liar and fraud by showing everyone Tony's OWN LETTERS. Then he
left and took the ENTIRE priesthood with him - oh yes, he DID. It's proven
right in there - their own letters. Tony wanted to make money selling phony
priesthoods? Really? HE MADE NO MONEY. Aquino had LEGIT ways for the cos
to make money. He offered these legit ways to Anton - and there is the
tragedy of it all, the utter mockery of it. Aquino TOLD Anton legit and
good ways to bring LOTS of money into the cos. You were not told that part,
eh? Obviously Aquino knows how to make money - HE'S RICH. Anton died a
fuckin begger who obviously couldn't even afford a god damned dentist,
plumber or electrician. Throwing mud on the truth is not going to bury it -
and throwing mud on me means nothing. It washes off, Nate. I'd tell you to
look in a mirror, but you lost your reflection long ago.
Now shut up Nate - I realize your masters gave you permission, or orders, to
flame me. But I'm commanding you to shut the fuck up. If the COSsers with
any shread of honesty in them were to see what's in that book, there'd be a
mass migration out, of whatever 2 or 3 people left in it that are worth a
cent. I URGE him to PUBLISH IT - sell it on the market.
Consider this Nate - what the fuck is it to YOU? Aquino told the truth
about what happened in 1975 and PROVED IT. It's just too bad he doesn't
mass market the expose for all to see, once and for all. Gilmore and Barton
weren't even part of the cos when it was great. You just believe what you
are told. You want the lie.
We have our own org - we use NOTHING of the cos - and never did. That they
used our stuff is no secret. I don't give a shit about the fight between
cos and tos. It's of no concern to SR. And you are irrelevant! I like
Woody. I answered his question. Period.
TJ
"Anonymous" <anon...@anonymous.poster.com> wrote in message
news:CY6CSPSZ37217.7473263889@anonymous.poster...
Kori Houghton
> "Kori Houghton" <koriho...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:6db9a636.0111...@posting.google.com...
> > > Or should we have the supposed Christian ethics [fairness, empathy,
> > > understanding, cooperation] as a Satanic political base from which to
> > > operate??
>
> Since when do Christians practice any of that? Since never. Any half assed
> study of real Christian deeds would show them to be monstrous - even their
> attitude toward newborn innocent babies is horrendous.
> >
> > I wouldn't go so far as to label these concepts as "Christian". Not
> > all of them have to do with ethics, either, IMO. Cooperation can
> > exist among animals of the same species, so that isn't always
> > un-Satanic. Fairness is relative. Empathy: you either got it or not
> > (like "style"). Understanding? Does a Satanist aim to be, uh, like,
> > a bit thick?
> >
> You are 100% right. Understanding what KIND of animals we really are is a
> start - we are social animals.
Is this the current view, then, of most Satanic types -- that we are
animals only? How do you explain man's inhumanity to man? You know,
the things humans have been known to do to one another that have no
parallel in the animal kingdom?
> Labeling biological realities with
> moralistic words is a mistake.
I agree. But do you think you have any choices in life, or is it all
a matter of responding physically to those "biological realities"?
> > >
> > > If there are no ethics or values in
> > > Satanism, then anything goes. Right?
>
> No, even the COS has ethics, values and rules. Try killing an animal and
> see how fast the COS boots you out and probably calls the cops. Someone is
> confusing nihilistic anarchy with Satanism.
> >
> > Kill all the Lawyers! heehee
>
> Nah, let's slip and fall at McDonalds and use the lawyers to sue them first.
> :)
Hey, I have nothing good to say about MickeyD's. But no lawyer would
be able to claim I was in there to get something to eat. I'm not into
fast food: I don't like the taste of fry grease, and someone my age
has to work to keep her girlish figure. Perhaps the lawyers get away
this time. So, let't annihilate the nihilists instead! ;)
Kori
Kori Houghton
> "People's Commissar" <tanija...@myself.com> wrote:
> > "Kori Houghton" <koriho...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:6db9a636.0111...@posting.google.com...
> > > > Or should we have the supposed Christian ethics [fairness, empathy,
> > > > understanding, cooperation] as a Satanic political base from which to
> > > > operate??
> >
> > Since when do Christians practice any of that? Since never. Any half assed
> > study of real Christian deeds would show them to be monstrous - even their
> > attitude toward newborn innocent babies is horrendous.
>
> The sins of the father are not visited on the son. Just because
> Christianity was a harbringer of death and destruction under a secular
> Vatican who was interested more in world conquest than with religious
> piety back in the 12th century does not mean Christianity is devoid of
> ethics today.
Perhaps "sins" are not quite the word for the mess left behind as the
legacy of a culture intent on self-destruction, like Christianity. Do
you consider the Vatican of today to be less secular, ie having less
impact on the world political situation? Do you consider the current
Pope to be more interested in "piety" than in manipulating the (often)
poor and ignorant into playing along with his twisted agenda? Could
you give an example of how Christianity is not devoid of ethics today?
>
> Likewise, the Greeks used to abandon their children to die in the
> wilderness if those children were undesirable--that does not negate all
> of Greek culture, nor does that make modern day Greece devoid of care
> for their children.
True. At least no woman in Greece has tried to carry 12 fetuses to
term....
The Pope's a dope!!!
Kori
Kori Houghton
> Lmao - #*&%^$215 with the *$&%^%213 and also #**(^^211. Huh?
>
> What you are conveying here - despite the parts impossible to read :), is a
> counterrevolutionary take over from within. Trojan Horse. I recall a post
> I made.....
>
> One can fake the Setian knowledge, rise to power, promote others on his side
> that also learn how to fake the Setian knowledge.
Unlike you, I've never met a ToS member....but I think it takes more
than a test of acquired knowledge to be recognized above I*.
>
> I really don't think making anti-Setian websites or plastering it on here is
> going to change the ToS from within. CoS files could be said to be anti
> Cos. Is it? Cos people wrote it. It's put up there by people who got
> ripped off and lied to.
>
> Does the Radio Free Setian website intend to warn people away from joining
> the ToS?
IMO the Radio Free Setian folks seem to care a lot more about losing
their places within ToS than providing some kind of warning beacon.
The stories on RFS are in some ways similar: bright, committed
individuals going through a process of being recognized to a higher
degree, or being given more responsibilities within the ToS. In a
magical order, this process is known as an "ordeal". Not everyone
passes every ordeal. A really good ordeal/test cannot be passed by
faking it. And the ToS has a right to decide who stays and who goes
-- just as the former members have a right to speak out about their
experiences.
> The CoS files is there with the intent of making people check into
> things before they spend a c-note for nothing - literally for nothing. I
> think both Ole and Vad said that up front on there.
>
> Let us say that some people in power are under the will of Set. But others
> are under the Will of something else, eg Osiris, but know how to pretend.
> Who is supposed to know this? The Osiris faction would be able to recognize
> their own and promote them. This seems to be what you are saying.
>
> I don't see that the leaders of the Radio Free Set thing are at issue with
> this; tho others might be. They got kicked out for having an enemy bring
> them to a conclave. Simple. If they were not kicked out, they admitted
> already that they'd have remained in the ToS. Now, it may have been true
> that loner type or priest of Osiris in Egypt long ago was friends with an
> established Priest of Set. But Set killed Osiris. Bottom line. Would the
> Priesthood of Set, becoming aware of this alliance, NOT ask the Setian to
> cut it off, or more?
It seems there is more to the situation you refer to than what we
outsiders have heard, if it involves members above the II*. I've been
thinking about the replies Dr. Aquino made to all of our questions,
and his point of view seems to be that there is lots more involved
with being a Priest/ess of Set than, say, management/people skills.
We're talking about a magic/initiatory group here. There's a lot of
corporate-type politics on Radio Free Setian, but no metaphysical or
philosophical conflicts really. (At least Lupo had major
philosophical differences with ToS as one issue.)
Concerning Osiris: doesn't the Dying God need to be killed?
> Just a theory.
>
> TJ
>
Just some questions ;)
Kori
The Honorable Judge Ludvig Prinn
>not that easy to find, that have a LOT more information.
I have absolutely no interest in becoming that involved with this ongoing (and
probably eternal) issue. I was merely commenting on certain posts I had found
interesting.
People's Commissar
"Kori Houghton" <koriho...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6db9a636.01112...@posting.google.com...
> "People's Commissar" <tanija...@myself.com> wrote in message
news:<tvqs4gj...@corp.supernews.com>...
> > Lmao - #*&%^$215 with the *$&%^%213 and also #**(^^211. Huh?
> >
> > What you are conveying here - despite the parts impossible to read :),
is a
> > counterrevolutionary take over from within. Trojan Horse. I recall a
post
> > I made.....
> >
> > One can fake the Setian knowledge, rise to power, promote others on his
side
> > that also learn how to fake the Setian knowledge.
>
> Unlike you, I've never met a ToS member....but I think it takes more
> than a test of acquired knowledge to be recognized above I*.
Well, I was tight friends with one (still am, but he's no longer ToS as far
as I know - but you'd never find him on some ANTI-tos thing, no), but - I
never asked him what he rank was, or what they did - I mean I asked him
NOTHING about it. I know they are a secretive bunch - and well, Bob is a
FRIEND. But - I also know another one who used to be in the TOS - I know
him a little bit, not in person. James Foster. He was schooled by real
Lamas; he knew the same Dark Tradition that I know and could DO that stuff
(no elaborations). He is also a Mason which biases me in his favor
immediately - no questions asked and I know they deny deny deny (I used to
be that way). He was accomplished - as a Magician. I think he was III, he
told me but I don't remember. I mean, it really was NOT important. But he
was definitely accomplished in LHP matters. He had some kind of Vajrayana
working in the making - or he was doing that - again, I didn't get nosy
about it. I liked him. It's a pity he is gone from there - a Vajrayana
Pylon would have been super.
>
> >
> > I really don't think making anti-Setian websites or plastering it on
here is
> > going to change the ToS from within. CoS files could be said to be
anti
> > Cos. Is it? Cos people wrote it. It's put up there by people who got
> > ripped off and lied to.
> >
> > Does the Radio Free Setian website intend to warn people away from
joining
> > the ToS?
>
> IMO the Radio Free Setian folks seem to care a lot more about losing
> their places within ToS than providing some kind of warning beacon.
I agree; I think they are heart broken. I do not mean that as a mockery or
something funny. I really think this.
> The stories on RFS are in some ways similar: bright, committed
> individuals going through a process of being recognized to a higher
> degree, or being given more responsibilities within the ToS. In a
> magical order, this process is known as an "ordeal". Not everyone
> passes every ordeal. A really good ordeal/test cannot be passed by
> faking it. And the ToS has a right to decide who stays and who goes
> -- just as the former members have a right to speak out about their
> experiences.
I understand that clearly - but to use an analogy - Catholic Priests,
Jesuits let's say, also have to go thru a lot of stuff; they are educated
people (unlike Protestants). They KNOW stuff. A Jewish person could
easily infiltrate the Jesuits. In fact, heh, the famous Adam Weishaupt, a
Jew, DID infiltrate the Jesuits - and as a Jesuit spy, infiltatred the
Grand Lodge Oriental of Freemasonry! Then, after being a spy spying, he
started his own pseudo branch of Freemasonry! To this day people don't know
which one is which and they are VERY secretive.
Well, if it's anything like real Vajrayana, then they can DO things - and on
that I will not talk. I don't tell anyone how to DO things in anything I
sell in Dark Tradition either - tho I explain it meticulously. It's
physically dangerous. I told Foster that - if he's going to DO what he set
out to do with those Siddhi Yogas, he best be sure no one gets hurt, or
hospitalized.
> We're talking about a magic/initiatory group here. There's a lot of
> corporate-type politics on Radio Free Setian, but no metaphysical or
> philosophical conflicts really. (At least Lupo had major
> philosophical differences with ToS as one issue.)
>
> Concerning Osiris: doesn't the Dying God need to be killed?
I used that to keep to an Egyptian format. Osiris was not originally that.
>
> > Just a theory.
> >
> > TJ
> >
>
> Just some questions ;)
> Kori
TJ
People's Commissar
"William Edward Woody" <wo...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:woody-E74575....@newssvr14-ext.news.prodigy.com...
> "People's Commissar" <tanija...@myself.com> wrote:
> > The point is that Christians even today, say one thing about all their
fine
> > ethics and morality - but they DO quite another thing. ...
>
> My original point was that suggesting a "half-assed study of real
> Christian deeds" negates any current or future actions is silly. Holding
> the fellow who lives down the block from me accountable for the fact
> that his spiritual ancestors wiped mine out four hundred years ago in
> California strikes me as silly--there are plenty of things he does
> already that annoy me that holding him accountable for events that
> happened before we were born is silly.
>
> Further, to suggest that <<all>> Christians behave in a particular way
> is to stereotype. And, with all due respect, isn't that the very sort of
> thing that most people who study or follow alternative religions
> complain the most about Christians?
I think I said "in general." Didn't I?
>
> To suggest all Christians violate their moral code is no different than
> to suggest all Satanists eat babies or that all Wiccans are fat lesbians.
I think that people in general, if they are self-honest, change their moral
code as the situations demand. Or they suppress the desire to do so.
>
> > ... As Satanists viewing man as an animal, the
> > real animal he is, we WOULD be more inclined to practice those things
> > because we biologically ARE social animals - we are mammals, we feel
things.
>
> Not all mammals are "social" in ways which we as a society consider
> "reasonable." Further, we as human beings have not always lived with the
> same moral or ethical codes we currently live by. Lions eat their
> cubs--and Greeks abandoned their unwanted children to the elements to
> die.
I know that. But in general, they were social.
>
> So suggesting that our morality or ethics is defined solely by our
> animal nature overlooks the great variety of moral standards and moral
> codes that have been practiced by human beings over our history.
> Further, we can get no clues from our closest relatives: the variations
> in social interaction between the half-dozen or so of our closest
> evolutionary bretheren provide very few clues as to our mating rituals
> or what the natural state of our society would be without interfearance
> from imposed ethical standards.
I know that. Bonobos are very different from other chimps as is the
environment they live in (very important)- and monkeys, as I mention in
article Tree of Destruction, behave differently depending on the ecological
niche they are in - and by that I mean, monkeys of the same exact species.
> >
> > It's almost not in the nature or inner-heart of people that would tend
to
> > BELIEVE in such things as Salvation, Heaven/Hell, sin at birth,
Jesus-True
> > God - to be tolerant in any sense of the word. ...
>
> Anthropologists studying neanerthols have discovered the remains of
> flowers next to their burried dead. There is debate as if this
> represents just a mourning ritual, or if it indicates that our primitive
> ancestors and our primitive cousins had religion.
Yup, keep up with that. :) They also cared for arthritic elders who could
not possibly have gotten around without help.
> >
> > I never said (or thought) Pagan societies were wonderful. They were as
BAD
> > AS, if not worse, than Christian ones with their blood sacrifices and
divine
> > priests...
>
> Sure. But to presume that all Pagans were terrible, as to presume all
> Christians are terrible, because some societies practiced brutal rituals
> or violated their theological principles: isn't that throwing out the
> baby with the bath water?
Again, "in general." I'd not want to live in Babylon. I'd not want to live
under Pharaoh. I'd not want to live under Caesar. I'd not want to live
under Montecezuma. I'd definitely not want to live under the Taliban! :)
Put me back under the post Roosevelt years where money went a long way and
such. That was nice. Put me here. This is nice.
>
> > ... (reminds me of His Divine Shadow - a universe built on the most
> > hellish conditions in Lexx - sci fi show, on the orders of His Divine
> > Shadow - who it turns out is not even a human being - it's an insect's
> > spirit out to destroy the humans in the universe by having them destroy
> > themselves while slowly feeding IT- god it's AWFUL.).
>
> Great show, Lexx. Follow it when I can.
Sure is. I saw the 4 two-hour shows of where it all began. I missed the
2nd and 3rd season - but saw the 4th one where they get to Earth. I like
Xev better than Zev for the part. OH, I gotta email you something - wav.
But, their Light Universe where "order" prevails was a living hell.
> >
> > LHP is a lot more like Shamanism, Taoism, Tantra, etc. And Satanism IS
part
> > of the LHP. Western brand Satanism would be a rebellion against any and
all
> > Divine Tyranny. But it's not against Deism. Deists have historically
been
> > very much against Theists - they are not the same at all.
>
> See, I have no problem with following whatever path sings to one's own
> heart--given that the first rule of freedom, that your freedom to move
> your fist ends at the tip of my nose, is observed.
Great metaphor - classic one too: SINGS. That is a LHP statement. The
DTrad works this way: it's like a soft song. You play it. Some hear it
precisely, some hear it vaguely, some hear nothing. It calls out to whom it
is intended for. The whole purpose of our org having Dark Tradition is just
that - get it out there, make it available. But if you go see on there,
that is not the first thing you see. Not at all. It's almost a sub-text on
there, underneath what's up front. It's a political org in that one has to
agree with 10 obviously non-magical statements to join it. But. For those
that get called, the Darkness finds THEM. That's how LHP works. And in our
"LHP and RHP" article, we clearly explain that these PATHS are not opposed
or supposed to be opposed.
The point I'm trying to make - in a similar vein that was used in the other
dialogue (that was great, btw).... is that some things call out to more
humans than others. And sometimes, those things have a potential to be very
dangerous to the well being of MOST. Telling a child, even as an
unconscious, surrounding, cultural thing, that he is born in sin - is not a
good thing to tell a child, or impart to a child. Or implanting the Idea
that Something is constantly Watching him - that's terrible. That is
depriving the child of a path - it is a diversion the child, grown into an
adult, might have to get over - or might not ever get over. It is an
insertion of poison into a child's life and path.
>
> But I do disagree with blanket characterizations or with some of the
> logic which strikes me as faulty.
I've met fine Christians too - and what was in their Bible that was very
positive, called out to them. They didn't seem to notice the rest (I'm
speaking magically now - in terms of the Will - what is INSIDE you already,
if you find info on it outside, it will stick to you). They did not "see"
the negative stuff. Some people read and see only that - and unlike
traditions that allow path walking, they indoctrinate others as part of
their religion.
TJ
--
Satanic Reds http://satanicreds.says.it
Or, http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/
Unique - check it out!
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/dd-ad.html
Dark Tradition: http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/art-dt.html
Member of the Satanic Council
http://www.geocities.com/sataniccouncil/mainmenu.html
Dark Doctrines Prometheus part of Satanic Reds Org.
http://www.apodion.com/vad/dark/
Michelet-Satanism:Temple of Lylyth: www.lylyth.org
Guardians of Darkness www.darktradition.com
SLAVA NAM! POWER TO THE WORKING PEOPLE!
>
William Edward Woody
> > Further, to suggest that <<all>> Christians behave in a particular way
> > is to stereotype. And, with all due respect, isn't that the very sort of
> > thing that most people who study or follow alternative religions
> > complain the most about Christians?
>
> I think I said "in general." Didn't I?
Nope; not that I saw. Sorry if that's what you ment and I didn't read it.
> > So suggesting that our morality or ethics is defined solely by our
> > animal nature overlooks the great variety of moral standards and moral
> > codes that have been practiced by human beings over our history.
> > Further, we can get no clues from our closest relatives: the variations
> > in social interaction between the half-dozen or so of our closest
> > evolutionary bretheren provide very few clues as to our mating rituals
> > or what the natural state of our society would be without interfearance
> > from imposed ethical standards.
>
> I know that. Bonobos are very different from other chimps as is the
> environment they live in (very important)- ...
Dominated by females who use sex to passify the male population...
*heavy sigh* ... Sorry, what were you saying?
> > Sure. But to presume that all Pagans were terrible, as to presume all
> > Christians are terrible, because some societies practiced brutal rituals
> > or violated their theological principles: isn't that throwing out the
> > baby with the bath water?
>
> Again, "in general." I'd not want to live in Babylon. I'd not want to live
> under Pharaoh. I'd not want to live under Caesar. I'd not want to live
> under Montecezuma. I'd definitely not want to live under the Taliban! :)
> Put me back under the post Roosevelt years where money went a long way and
> such. That was nice. Put me here. This is nice.
Dunno; I could have lived like my Indian ancestors in California a few
hundred years ago: sufficient food, small valley with huge moutains
separating you and your enemies, who at the very worst would get into a
fist fight--nothing to do but raise children, make trinkets,
occassionally hunt--can't knock it.
> > > ... (reminds me of His Divine Shadow - a universe built on the most
> > > hellish conditions in Lexx - sci fi show, on the orders of His Divine
> > > Shadow - who it turns out is not even a human being - it's an insect's
> > > spirit out to destroy the humans in the universe by having them destroy
> > > themselves while slowly feeding IT- god it's AWFUL.).
> >
> > Great show, Lexx. Follow it when I can.
>
> Sure is. I saw the 4 two-hour shows of where it all began. I missed the
> 2nd and 3rd season - but saw the 4th one where they get to Earth. I like
> Xev better than Zev for the part. OH, I gotta email you something - wav.
> But, their Light Universe where "order" prevails was a living hell.
*grin*
> The point I'm trying to make - in a similar vein that was used in the other
> dialogue (that was great, btw)...
*grin*
> ... is that some things call out to more
> humans than others. And sometimes, those things have a potential to be very
> dangerous to the well being of MOST. Telling a child, even as an
> unconscious, surrounding, cultural thing, that he is born in sin - is not a
> good thing to tell a child, or impart to a child. ...
You just hit on a personal gripe of mine.
What's funny is that the concept of original sin as interpreted in the
theology of the Catholic Church is not the concept of original sin that
the Protestants and the Evangelical types in the United States have
indoctrinated us with. The concept of Catholic original sin simply
suggests that after the fall of Adam and Eve, babies who are born into
this world are not born with an innate connection with the Holy Spirit,
and must struggle to learn justice. It's not that babies are inherently
evil until baptised; it's that they are inherently neutral--and must
learn the difference between good and evil.
How we went from "teach your babies well" (oh, and teach them in the
Catholic Church, by the way) and went to "those cute little rug rats are
harbringers of pure evil until they're dunked in a bath in a religious
rite" is beyond me. (I know the little buggers can stink until they are
changed--but that's the smell of shit, not of sin.)
On the other hand, I've met plenty of parents who constantly tell their
children how rotten they are, both in subtle and not so subtle ways. On
my darker days it makes me wish there was a "Parental Licensing Board."
> ... Or implanting the Idea
> that Something is constantly Watching him - that's terrible. ...
Agreed: I like the concept of a universe which doesn't give a damn who I
am or what I am--that I can die anonymously without creating a ripple
with any sort of "man upstairs."
> ... That is
> depriving the child of a path - it is a diversion the child, grown into an
> adult, might have to get over - or might not ever get over. It is an
> insertion of poison into a child's life and path.
Agreed. But it's hard not to poison the child--even the California
Indians, who used to never teach a child, but hope the child would come
up and ask what the parent was doing--it's difficult not to indoctrinate
the child in one fashion or another.
> > But I do disagree with blanket characterizations or with some of the
> > logic which strikes me as faulty.
>
> I've met fine Christians too - and what was in their Bible that was very
> positive, called out to them. They didn't seem to notice the rest (I'm
> speaking magically now - in terms of the Will - what is INSIDE you already,
> if you find info on it outside, it will stick to you). They did not "see"
> the negative stuff. Some people read and see only that - and unlike
> traditions that allow path walking, they indoctrinate others as part of
> their religion.
Well, there's the trick--and why I would call myself a "Thelemite" if
anything: figuring out what your Divine Will actually is. And on this I
agree: I've met plenty of Christians who wouldn't know the contents of
their Bible if they were beaten over the head with it.
But by and large I look at most Christians who are unfamiliar with their
Bible in the same way I look at most computer users who are unfamiliar
with Windows ME: they only learn what they think they need, and not one
bit more. Just because I'm a bit of a computer geek and a bit of a
religion geek doesn't mean I'm superior to someone who has better things
to do with their lives than learning the fine points of VxD programming
or Pauline Theology. And just because they don't know their Bible or
their Windows ME user interfaces doesn't mean they are poor Christians
or poor Computer Users--just that they have other things to do.
So long as their fist doesn't make contact with my nose, what the hell.
Of course I expect a lot of stupidity when they start talking about
Windows ME or about Christianity--but then, I don't know jack shit about
baseball or football. Different priorities; that's all.
People's Commissar
Re: Animals slaughtering their own kind: Actually, they do. Did you ever
see "People of the Forrest?" It's a wonderful movie about Chimps narrated
by Donald Sutherland - in particular a chimp family. It is a must see.
Well, the entire family of the main female were "followed" by scientists.
She left her own group. The group then hunted her down, STICKS IN HAND like
marching off to war, they exterminated her entire family and cannibalized
her. I kid you not. It's just that no one ever noticed this in animals
before - and you can't study their behavior in captivity at all. You have
to literally live with them in the wild. There are bees - they regularly
exterminate drones. And so forth. African bees wipe out entire honey bees
and take over by mixing with them. That's genocide - bee style. No one
ever thinks of it that way.
Yes, most Satanists view man as an animal - we are not plants! And from
what I've seen, due to LANGUAGE being used, there is some confusion on this.
BUT - see this, it's from "Tree of Destruction" article, you should read
it - I can't paste the chart on here - it explains exactly how this
miserable situation of man being a horrendous being to fellow man, has come
to be - step by step. http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/all-tod.html
This is from the article, near the end, regarding primates.
Is there a biological evolutionary explanation for such horrendously AWFUL
behavior? Well, I'll give that a try: other primates are not genetically
predisposed to this or that static or fixed social system. They also can't
be accused of having priests, morals, ethics or books with rules in them, or
written laws! Other primates try various social systems; the social systems
are themselves subject to natural selection. The ones that work best IN THE
ENVIRONMENTAL NICHE THEY ARE IN are they ones they keep.
Put any primate in an ecological niche where there is scarcity and you'll
end up, guaranteed, with alpha dominant male structure as social strategy
(culture) where they TAKE ALL and no one can stop them; you'll get females
that do not band together, and weaker males and all females terrorized by
the strongest brutes (whether they wield fist, club or atomic bomb....).
Most APE species have this social strategy, including many chimps.
Put any primate in an ecological niche where there is abundance, but not of
the long-lasting or permanent type, and you'll end up with cliques of
females dominating the foraging areas and a kind of bartering between males
and females for food/favors. Bonobo chimps have this social strategy
(culture). Note that they are the SAME species as other chimps, they are
cross-fertile, but they do NOT choose to mate with them. (Is that racism?)
The Bonobo is genetically the closest to humans but one doesn't need "genes
knowledge" to be able to know what an animal will do if you set up this or
that condition.
Put any primate in an ecological niche where there is abundance and it lasts
long or is renewable or permanent (whether that be vegetation that doesn't
rot fast, lots and various kinds of eatable fruits, easily hunted animals to
eat, or refrigerators to store TV dinners and easy-access supermarkets with
cheap food...) and you'll end up with equalitarian social strategies (at
least within each tribe or nation) or a tendency to want to make that in the
society, no gender-specific work duties and all-around harmony, or at least
a tendency to strive for that. Some monkeys have this. I know of no APE
species that has this. Some humans have it - I doubt they want to give it
up.
The trick, then, to "making a utopia" is not to preach doctrines or dogmas,
but to CHANGE THE ENVIRONMENT/ECOLOGICAL NICHE. How can you do this when
another group, a TINY group, has all it needs for now and is also MEGA RICH,
and is hell bent on keeping what they have and is against any efforts to FIX
the world? How? Have a revolution. THEN make things right. Can humans do
that - just ONE TIME? I don't have high hopes. There would have to be more
than just a balance of people to resources. There'd have to be a potential
for resources to outnumber people using them, for there to be MORE than
"just enough" for everyone in the niche. They'd have to control their
tendency to overpopulate. They'd have to consciously make up new rules and
laws, by "Divine Decree" if necessary. Would such content and happy people
even need religion anymore? Basically, humans would have to start putting
PEOPLE BEFORE PROFITS! There are many "howevers" to that dream. However,
how do you get people that still have something, to give that up and have
nothing - and then fight the Powers That Be? How do you move what is almost
like an inertial mass of masses of proletarians when some of them have no
clue what a labor union is now? Can you move them with an idea? No. But
anything the Left does to alleviate problems (put band aids on things) only
stalls any revolutionary desire. How do you wrench the power and
mega-profits from those who have them: with your bare hands?
End quote from article.
We in SR feel there IS another way, the technology is there, it needs to be
improved, worked out - PUSHED. Yeah, as LaVey did say, man is more vicious
than any other animal - he was not praising this; he was just saying it - he
himself claimed he hated bullies in his book so he had to be against the
entire thing. I don't wonder if the current group realize he was against it
(violent, Hobbesian Man) or not - nor do I care - you'd have to ask them if
they think man is JUST another animal....AND NOTHING MORE (qualified
addition). So that is how he is stuck in the convo by another poster. The
much lauded 7th statement, it would seem, is obvious to any historian. He
must have seen the war films of the Holocaust, Japan, WW2 - so he certainly
knew this.
It does not have to BE that way, however. The potential is there, the
technology is there. What we have now, what makes everyone vicious, is the
Hobbesian nature of the system we are living in - and the system IS the
environment we are in. Relations of labor, means of production, - how you
work conditions how you think in a very ubiquitous way. It's the WATER in
which we swim! The dynamic in SR is to push for change, support already
existing BIG organizations, get informed about the new technologies - in
that sense we are political and 75% of our people are FROM the politial
sector, not from the magical sector at all. But even in their advocacy of
life-affirming change for the better - progressive thinking - there IS the
magical - it is inherent in that. It is against the conservation of stale
values and ways of doing things That is, adverse to stagnation. I think
the Setians would call it Xeper - but it would be in a collective manner.
That is, WE would have to Become - Something Other than what WE are. WE,
not I. The Cossers in their Pentagonal Resivion thing have ideas for
controlled personal environments. Those are the 3 main (i.e., big) Satanic
groups out there, you can read their/our available texts, not just websites.
There is a BIG potential for us, as humans, to BECOME MORE than just what we
are now, war mongering brutes, genocidal maniacs, that make "M.A.D." to
settle a dispute. Think about that, did you or I do this? No. Did any
leader of ANY Satanic organization do that? No. So then, a qualification
is needed: SOME humans are genocidal brutes and annihilate each other and
are inhumane to their fellow man. NOT ALL. :) It doesn't have to be dog
eat dog (Hobbesian hell). Hobbesian societies are adrenalin driven. That
only lasts so long until the population cracks and the entire "empire" falls
to ruin. Pleasure/leisure societies are endorphin driven (natural
endorphins from the brain itself). This CAN BE achieved. This is why
Roddenberry is an SR saint. I don't mean his sci fi. I mean the Ideology.
The potential is there. Now - how do we get the masses to PUSH for it?
Huge organizations are already doing this. We have fuel cell technology,
things like that, it needs to be PUSHED. Right now man is a horrendous
animal - but an animal nonetheless. Pre agrarian man was NOT like that.
And again, NOT ALL man fits the bill.
See inside.
"Kori Houghton" <koriho...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6db9a636.01112...@posting.google.com...
See the long-winded reply above. Some Satanists see only the Hobbesian as
the way to go (but that's the status quo). Others, including the SR, see
that the Satanic would be adverse to the Hobbesian state of affairs of "the
world." It feels like shit to have to be Hobbesian, even if you OUT compete
someone because you have to.
>
> > Labeling biological realities with
> > moralistic words is a mistake.
>
> I agree. But do you think you have any choices in life, or is it all
> a matter of responding physically to those "biological realities"?
Sure we have choice, ho ho, that's a tricky question (just jumped a paradigm
there). Free Will on what level? You can't become a fish. You do not have
the freedom of choice to breathe water like a fish (don't get technical on
me now....), you know what I mean. You have choices, sure you do. But as
a zygote, you had no choice to NOT develop or to develop into a non-human -
get what I mean? There is the instinct, the foundation of our beings - our
Nature. Next come the somatic markers, or senses that are instructed by the
instinct. But then comes Logic. Foresight. And within a very HUMAN
definition of this: Free Choice. We have long term memories that are
supposed to aid in logic, deductive reasoning, etc. When I see it's a
tricky question, I refer to Skinner (Beyond Freedom and Dignity) and the
Pavlovian school (at least that book is in English). Free Will - if you
cage up a human, or a dog for that matter, it FEELS a loss of freedom - it's
free will would want to make it escape. On that level, we can agree, as
humans, on the meaning of free will, freedom, etc. But on another level -
"free will" is a myth! (You as zygote had no free Will to refuse to develop
and be born). It depends on how you mean it. But in relation to your
question? Sure, we have free will! I think all Satanists agree with that -
shoot, I think all HUMANS agree with that! :)
> > > > >
> Hey, I have nothing good to say about MickeyD's. But no lawyer would
> be able to claim I was in there to get something to eat. I'm not into
> fast food: I don't like the taste of fry grease, and someone my age
> has to work to keep her girlish figure. Perhaps the lawyers get away
> this time. So, let't annihilate the nihilists instead! ;)
HA!! OH, MickyD's makes good fries. Yes they do. Otherwise, I don't like
it either. Wendy's is ok - Jr. Bacon Cheeseburger is good :)
>
> Kori
Ultimately, if a person STOPS in his "wants" and "not wants" and questions
his own actions, thoughts, feelings with THIS question: "Is that Satanic?"
in a half-witted attempt to adjust his behavior to someone ELSE'S idea of
Satanic and make choices determined by that "Definition," I'd say that
person is NOT a Satanist! Period. NO ifs ands or buts about that.
Allegorically speaking, did Lucifer ask God for permission to rebel? NO.
Kerry Delf
> But you seem to think that something is horrifically wrong with
> Magistra Schreck. Surprise, surprise: She just happens to be
> respected, liked, and admired throughout the Temple of Set, in which
> she has interacted and worked selflessly from her I* to her IV* for
> years.
Hoo, boy, are you blind or what? Apparently you're unable to see past your
own ambitions to bring LaVey's daughter to the position of being your own
surrogate daughter, and have failed to catch all the muttering in your
ranks.
Zeena LaVey/Dubin/Schreck is *not* "respected, liked and admired
throughout the Temple of Set" -- she's considered a terrible
embarrassment, especially to the integrity of the Setian degree system, by
many of your members. Who knows which is the prevailing viewpoint --
obviously there are Setians on each side of the fence. But ignoring the
very real discomfort by many with this Tammy-Fayesque bimbo's meteoritic
rise through the Temple's ranks (hand-in-hand with her power-hungry,
"Recovering Nazi" husband) is just, well, stupid.
- Kerry Delf
<k...@efn.org>
--
"You have murder in your heart. You are thus, a murderer. You are a
sychophant helping to do nothing but destroy this newsgroup with your
incessant bitching about people's views. You are a murderer of free
speech. You are a murderer of ideas. You love that because you are scum."
-- Usenet Kook Jeff Gerber explaining how disagreeing
with Tani Jantsang equates to murder.
Dr. Michael A. Aquino
Hash: SHA1
Kerry Delf <k...@efn.org> wrote:
>> But you seem to think that something is horrifically
>> wrong with Magistra Schreck. Surprise, surprise: She
>> just happens to be respected, liked, and admired
>> throughout the Temple of Set, in which she has
>> interacted and worked selflessly from her I* to her IV* for
>> years.
>
>... Zeena LaVey/Dubin/Schreck is *not* "respected,
>liked and admired throughout the Temple of Set" ...
>this Tammy-Fayesque bimbo's ...
Meow, meow ... [yawn]
Michael Aquino
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circe
"Dr. Michael A. Aquino" <xe...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011123190326...@nso-ck.aol.com...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Kerry Delf <k...@efn.org> wrote:
>
> >> But you seem to think that something is horrifically
> >> wrong with Magistra Schreck. Surprise, surprise: She
> >> just happens to be respected, liked, and admired
> >> throughout the Temple of Set, in which she has
> >> interacted and worked selflessly from her I* to her IV* for
> >> years.
> >
> >... Zeena LaVey/Dubin/Schreck is *not* "respected,
> >liked and admired throughout the Temple of Set" ...
> >this Tammy-Fayesque bimbo's ...
>
> Meow, meow ... [yawn]
LoL! More-so than her obviously! I had that one killfiled too. But I
remember when she was out here whining and calling me every name in the book
that Guin, I think it was her, did e-mail me. She told me that Kerry has
always been jealous of her as well as any other woman that has known Craig.
She said that Kerry gave Craig a horrible infection when he took up with
her. She said that Craig was really sweet but Kerry was just a vicious,
painfully obvious, scorned, old has been. ;)
> Michael Aquino
Anonymous
>
> On the contrary. The most recent edition of the COS book, has proof alright.
> Every single resignation letter, letters from time-honored Priesthood;
> LaVey's own letters, Diane's - there is proof 100% in there. You never read
> it.
We are talking about the CID thing, right? Well then it behooves Mikey
to support his accusations with at least as much proof as those children
at Presidio who POINTED HIM OUT IN PUBLIC AS THE PERSON WHO SEXUALLY
MOLESTED THEM.
> I don't suck up to anyone - and the sooner you realize that, the wiser you
> will be.
Yes you do!
> I also despise people who suck up, or try to suck up, TO ME.
No you don't!
> Now,
> many people clearly see this.
Your suck-ups?
> You don't because you are stuck in the
> paradigm where everyone HAS to be sucking up, or being sucked up to.
That's YOUR paradigm Tani, it's your signature!
> YOU
> are a suckup.
Case in point!
> You are very disturbed that I see both cos and tos
> objectively?
Objectively? Ha! Since the CoS THREW your HAGGARD ASS OUT you have
been on a mission and if your recent backpedaling in regards to your
viscous attacks and harassment against the ToS and specific members of
that organization is not sucking up I don't know what else is.
> You hate the tos so much. WHY?
I don't "hate" them, I just think they are particularly silly. Nothing more.
>
> I can see why Tony hated the TOS now - clearly. Aquino exposed him to
> EVERYONE IN the cos, written letters shown to EVERYONE - exposing Tony as a
> con artist, liar and fraud by showing everyone Tony's OWN LETTERS.
You mean like messages you accuse Gilotina of sending to people about you?
> Then he
> left and took the ENTIRE priesthood with him - oh yes, he DID. It's proven
> right in there - their own letters.
Aquino left with his ENTIRE little group of RPG cronies not even close
to the majority of the CoS priesthood.
> Tony wanted to make money selling phony
> priesthoods? Really? HE MADE NO MONEY.
Well then there you have it! That often said accusation was blown way
out of proportion.
> Aquino had LEGIT ways for the cos
> to make money. He offered these legit ways to Anton - and there is the
> tragedy of it all, the utter mockery of it. Aquino TOLD Anton legit and
> good ways to bring LOTS of money into the cos.
Gee Tani, aren't you the one who always accuses the CoS of being in it
solely for the money?
> You were not told that part,
> eh?
Well let me guess, Aquino told you this?
> Obviously Aquino knows how to make money - HE'S RICH.
He was born with his mommy's money which was at least enough to
eventually buy his way out of the the Presidio incident.
> Anton died a
> fuckin begger who obviously couldn't even afford a god damned dentist,
> plumber or electrician.
He died a legend in his own time and will continue to be a legend long
after you have soiled your last set of Depends undergarments.
> Throwing mud on the truth is not going to bury it -
You should take your own advice!
> and throwing mud on me means nothing.
Indeed, your dirt precedes you.
> It washes off, Nate.
Who's Nate?
> I'd tell you to
> look in a mirror, but you lost your reflection long ago.
Bwah-ha-ha!
> Now shut up Nate -
Who's Nate?
> I realize your masters gave you permission, or orders, to
> flame me.
What masters? Are you insinuating that someone asked me to flame you on
their behalf, like when you are having your ass broiled the monkeys come
a flying to your rescue?
> But I'm commanding you to shut the fuck up.
No! However, you are welcome to try and shut me up.
> If the COSsers with
> any shread of honesty in them were to see what's in that book, there'd be a
> mass migration out, of whatever 2 or 3 people left in it that are worth a
> cent. I URGE him to PUBLISH IT - sell it on the market.
Go for it! Although maybe Mikey doesn't publish it because it contains
libelous claims (read: lies) that he would be forced to answer to legally.
> Consider this Nate - what the fuck is it to YOU?
OK, I've had it!
DING DING DING DING DING!!!!!! (((((((BONG!!!!))))))) Congratulations
Miss Tani Jantsang, or may I call you Phyllis? You have just won the
Grand Championship round of GONG SHOW RUSSIAN ROULETTE! And here's
All-Star Celebrity Judge Kerry Delf with her Armalite AR-180 to show you
what you've won!!!
> Aquino told the truth
> about what happened in 1975 and PROVED IT.
Uh yeah sure, and Egan , to this day, still denies ever being involved
in N.A.M.B.L.A. You believed THAT ONE too, didn't you?
> It's just too bad he doesn't
> mass market the expose for all to see, once and for all.
Yes it's too bad he doesn't. Considering that he has all that money you
would think he could! I wonder why he doesn't, hmm.
> Gilmore and Barton
> weren't even part of the cos when it was great.
Nor were you although they were part of it and helping to run it long
before you, and eventually your flying monkeys, were force feeding your
dark doctrines to the rank and file.
> You just believe what you
> are told. You want the lie.
And who's been recently crying that she was led astray by misinformation
she was fed about the ToS? Gee Tani that must have been a shit load of
misinformation that you SWALLOWED for years and years based on your
sustained and relentless attacks on the ToS and specific members.
Hey Tani, I hear that Karl and Jill are willing to make amends and help
you attack the CoS. You up for it?
> We have our own org - we use NOTHING of the cos - and never did.
You used the CoS as a vehicle to bolster your own image and credibility.
Otherwise you would be lucky to get your stuff published in one of Ron
Mershon's news letters.
> That they
> used our stuff is no secret.
Yes, they do tend to promote work by their members although I missed the
chapter of The Satanic Bible, which is the "doctrine" for their
organization, that you wrote.
> I don't give a shit about the fight between
> cos and tos.
Then why did you post this?
> It's of no concern to SR.
> And you are irrelevant!
Again, why did you post this?
Tani my dear, your history of harassing the ToS both on and off line is
well know by the ToS, the CoS, and many of those unaffiliated with any
organization, and is by far (years even) much longer than your current
lame attempts at revenge for the CoS giving you the hard boot. You know
as well as I do that you were ordered to cool it many times when your
attacks on the ToS were bordering on criminal acts although it seems
that you ignored this given that you constantly made a point of
insinuating that you had somehow caused them damages. But who knows,
maybe this was more of your lies, and given the fact that you still
threaten and harass people without actually ever hurting anyone you were
probably just flapping your loose lips. Er, I meant the ones on your mouth!
> I like
> Woody. I answered his question.
You like Woody because he gives you oral pleasure. Everyone knows how
the flying monkeys "get their wings."
> Period.
That's it!
>
> TJ
>
> "Anonymous" <anon...@anonymous.poster.com> wrote in message
> news:CY6CSPSZ37217.7473263889@anonymous.poster...
> > Commie Mommy wrote:
> > >
> > > So, having once thought, along with so many others, that Dr. A was this
> > > terrible monster that kept picking on poor Anton and ripping off his
> stuff -
> > > I find that it was Anton that tried to frame Dr. A in a cowardly
> fashion,
> > > malicious to the hilt - over NOTHING, I find that Dr. A. did nothing to
> > > Anton that he most definitely did NOT rip anything off.
> >
> > And Dr. "A" never provided any proof either only his "word" which is
> > about as good as Egan's, Courageous Jessica's, Ron Mershon's, John
> > Shaw's, and of course YOURS! Keep sucking up Tani! Keep SUCKING and
> > don't forgat to SWALLOW!
--
"Oh FUCK off, will you? You want Uncle Sasha to come to your stupid TV show
someday and have a CHAT with you on public access? Sheesh. You'd love
that. Then you could scream how about "TANI DID THIS TO ME." You fucking
moron." -Tani Jantsang threatening someone for challenging her credibility
______________________________________________________________________________
Kori Houghton
> On 21 Nov 2001, Dr. Michael A. Aquino wrote:
>
> > But you seem to think that something is horrifically wrong with
> > Magistra Schreck. Surprise, surprise: She just happens to be
> > respected, liked, and admired throughout the Temple of Set, in which
> > she has interacted and worked selflessly from her I* to her IV* for
> > years.
>
> Hoo, boy, are you blind or what? Apparently you're unable to see past your
> own ambitions to bring LaVey's daughter to the position of being your own
> surrogate daughter, and have failed to catch all the muttering in your
> ranks.
>
> Zeena LaVey/Dubin/Schreck is *not* "respected, liked and admired
> throughout the Temple of Set" -- she's considered a terrible
> embarrassment, especially to the integrity of the Setian degree system, by
> many of your members. Who knows which is the prevailing viewpoint --
> obviously there are Setians on each side of the fence. But ignoring the
> very real discomfort by many with this Tammy-Fayesque bimbo's meteoritic
> rise through the Temple's ranks (hand-in-hand with her power-hungry,
> "Recovering Nazi" husband) is just, well, stupid.
>
> - Kerry Delf
> <k...@efn.org>
Hi, Kerry--
I don't know if you've taken the time to read thru all these
ToS-related threads (since you've read it all before, surely), but Dr.
A has been answering some questions some of us (including myself) have
about people leaving the ToS, especially the Priesthood.
He says, basically, that a Priest/ess is recognized by the higher
degreed members as having a special relationship with Set, where the
essence of Set is perceptible combined with the initiate's own
essence. (Did I get that right?)
It almost seems like a kind of ToS litmus test for other
"recognitions" might be: you see the essence of Set in Zeena,
don'tcha?
This whole Zeena business, considering her past and that of her
husband, seems surprising in light of Aquino's/ToS's concern about
unwelcome public attention potentially coming from a member's
interests/affiliations. The Dubins are over in Europe (I think?), and
I find it hard to believe that they (as "recovering Nazis" -- I love
that phrase!) are strictly avoiding any and all former racialist
associates. Maybe they have completely turned over a new leaf. If
they have, why aren't they the Dubins then, instead of the Schrecks?
A "recovering Nazi" using the name of one of Hitler's bully boys is
like a recovering alcoholic named John using the handle "Johnny
Walker"...
It will be interesting to see what develops.
Kori (unaffiliated, but generally opposed to hypocrisy)
Dr. Michael A. Aquino
Hash: SHA1
Anonymous
<anon...@anonymous.poster.com> wrote:
>TJ> If the COSsers with any shread of honesty in
>TJ> them were to see what's in that book, there'd
>TJ> be a mass migration out, of whatever 2 or 3
>TJ> people left in it that are worth a cent. I URGE
>TJ> him to PUBLISH IT - sell it on the market.
>
>Go for it! Although maybe Mikey doesn't publish it
>because it contains libelous claims (read: lies) that
>he would be forced to answer to legally.
Actually my _The Church of Satan_ was published in
1981, and was (c) registered with the Library of Congress
at that time, and copies of the various Editions since then
have regularly been in circulation - including a copy of the
1st Edition which was mailed to Anton and for which he
personally signed. At no time did he even threaten any
legal action concerning it, and indeed there is nothing in
it which is actionable, as its facts are all properly referenced
and documented as appropriate.
I do not publish it commercially because I do not trust unknown
purchasers - including, obviously, many cranks who are
knee-jerk hostile to the Setian/Satanic religion - to use it
constructively, wisely, and responsibly. In .pdf format it
is downloadable from my public subsite on the Temple of
Set's website:
http://www.xeper.org/maquino/index.html
but it is password-protected, and I provide the password only
to Setians and to serious scholars, researchers, and historians
whom I evaluate as responsible.
Michael Aquino
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Dr. Michael A. Aquino
Hash: SHA1
koriho...@hotmail.com (Kori Houghton) wrote:
>This whole Zeena business, considering her past and that of her
>husband, seems surprising in light of Aquino's/ToS's concern about
>unwelcome public attention potentially coming from a member's
>interests/affiliations. The Dubins are over in Europe (I think?),
>and I find it hard to believe that they (as "recovering Nazis" -- I
>love that phrase!) are strictly avoiding any and all former
>racialist
>associates. Maybe they have completely turned over a new leaf. If
>they have, why aren't they the Dubins then, instead of the Schrecks?
> A "recovering Nazi" using the name of one of Hitler's bully boys is
>like a recovering alcoholic named John using the handle "Johnny
>Walker"...
Their formal/married name is "Schreck", and that's not a Nazi
name. It's most famous, of course, as that of the actor who played
Count Orlock in the Weimar-era Expressionist film _Nosferatu_.
While their 1980s' Werewolf Order was definitely elitist, it
differed in many respects from Nazi ideology, and continued
to further distance itself from same as misunderstandings
(such as yours) came to light.
By the time that the Schrecks decided to apply for admission
to the Temple of Set, that "Sturm und Drang" era was long-gone.
[Let us not forget, however, that a good measure of that
harshness - in the 1980s - came at a time when Satanism
generally was under constant and the most disgusting kind
of attacks from fundamentalist witch-hunters. While many
of today's chest-thumping "Satanists" were hoping no one
would notice them, the Schrecks were regularly in the
media and ferociously in-the-face of the witchhunters. So
don't be too condescending now that it's safe to swagger
around on alt.satanism.]
As for allegations of the Schrecks' "racism", bear in mind
that since its founding the Temple of Set has welcomed
Initiates of all races, and seen them rise to its highest levels
of initiation and office. If the Priesthood and Masters of the
Temple of Set had evaluated the Schrecks as being racists,
they would not have been admitted, much less Recognized
in due course over the years to the Priesthood, and then as
Masters. Remember again that such Recognitions in the
Temple require collective input and consensus, so that it
is not a question of some individual just steamrolling it
through.
And of course Kerry Delf, as someone who was never a
member of the Temple of Set, and whose Honorary
Membership was unanimously rescinded by the Council
of Nine for her disgrace of it, is perhaps not your most
reliable and objective source of information concerning
either the Temple, or specific individuals in it she hates
for vulgar personal reasons.
Michael Aquino
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PoisonTongue
xe...@aol.com (Dr. Michael A. Aquino) wrote in message
> But you seem to think that something is horrifically wrong
> with Magistra Schreck. Surprise, surprise: She just happens
> to be respected, liked, and admired throughout the Temple
> of Set, in which she has interacted and worked selflessly
> from her I* to her IV* for years.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
It's a nonsense term, like "selflessness". Everyone
does anything for profit, advantage, or pleasure
[or avoidance of pain, as in _1984_]. Helping
a little old lady across the street, as in my Boy
Scout days, was done at minimum for a sense
of personal pleasure from the *illusion* of being
"altruistic", at maximum for points towards
graduating from Tenderfoot to Second Class
Scout.
Michael Aquino
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Dr. Michael A. Aquino
Hash: SHA1
James "nemthenga" Fos...@my-deja.com
(PoisonTongue) wrote:
>Ho, ho! A splendid example of contradiction! Read
>on, gents & dames--
>
>MA> ... Magistra Schreck ... has interacted and
>MA> worked selflessly [for the benefit of the Temple
>MA> of Set] from her I* to her IV* for years.
>
>[Quote from previous a.s post]:
>
>MA> It's a nonsense term, like "selflessness". Everyone
>MA> does anything for profit, advantage, or pleasure
>MA> [or avoidance of pain, as in _1984_]. Helping
>MA> a little old lady across the street, as in my Boy
>MA> Scout days, was done at minimum for a sense
>MA> of personal pleasure from the *illusion* of being
>MA> "altruistic", at maximum for points towards
>MA> graduating from Tenderfoot to Second Class
>MA> Scout.
Well, I think that most a.s visitors are smart enough
to differentiate between these different contexts in
which I used the term. Or are you just setting a new
standard for anal-retentiveness (also a term which
can mean several different things)? %-)
Michael Aquino
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Kevin Filan
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> James "nemthenga" Fos...@my-deja.com
> (PoisonTongue) wrote:
Hate to disagree with ya, Doc... but according to the X-Originating IP on
PoisonTongue's posts, sie hails from New Mexico. Last I checked, Mr. Foster
is in the Cincinnati area.
Oh, and speaking of Once and Future High Priestess Zeena Dubin: here's a
little excerpt from her 1990 letter to Michael Aquino, wherein she denounces
her "Unfather."
* * * * *
Another fact conveniently not included is the common knowledge that as the
co-director of the Werewolf Order, I have paved a unique path of my own
inspired by the Western European magical tradition. These very European
magical traditions, which I have always maintained as my own, are of more
personal importance to me than the largely Eastern and negative
Judeo-Christian imagery still so boringly peddled by the CoS. In the desire
to appeal to the masses, Barton's book makes it glaringly clear that the
real motive of the Church of Satan is to attract cash from "economic power
brokers"; what other reason could
justify the sickeningly repetitive flattery she (he) extends to Zionism,
Bolshevism, and the state of Israel while safely
negating any Norse or Teutonic mythology
* * * * *
Perhaps Dr. Aquino, or some other interested Setian, would enlighten us all
as to:
1) What "economic power brokers" were giving LaVey money so that he would
promote Zionism, Bolshevism, and the State of Israel.
2) What aspects of the Church of Satan are pro-Zionist or pro-Bolshevik.
3) What other Setians share Zeena & Barry's beliefs that "economic power
brokers" infiltrate organizations in order to promote their Zionist,
Bolshevik, pro-Israel agenda.
4) If this is an example of the "clear thinking" and "dedication to the
Left-Hand Path" which Dr. Aquino finds so admirable in Nick and Zeena.
Alternately, you could:
Shut up, Childfucker. Even though Kori Houghton did give you permission to
speak.
Peace
Kevin Filan
Anonymous
>
> Oh, and speaking of Once and Future High Priestess Zeena Dubin: here's a
> little excerpt from her 1990 letter to Michael Aquino, wherein she denounces
> her "Unfather."
>
> * * * * *
> Another fact conveniently not included is the common knowledge that as the
> co-director of the Werewolf Order, I have paved a unique path of my own
> inspired by the Western European magical tradition. These very European
> magical traditions, which I have always maintained as my own, are of more
> personal importance to me than the largely Eastern and negative
> Judeo-Christian imagery still so boringly peddled by the CoS. In the desire
> to appeal to the masses, Barton's book makes it glaringly clear that the
> real motive of the Church of Satan is to attract cash from "economic power
> brokers"; what other reason could
> justify the sickeningly repetitive flattery she (he) extends to Zionism,
> Bolshevism, and the state of Israel while safely
> negating any Norse or Teutonic mythology
>
> * * * * *
You see this TANI? These are your new friends!
You must have two bumps on your head at this point.
O.K., now let's hear you and the "Satanic Reds" play a few verses of
your hit song "Backpedal Up the Bullshit River!"
--
"You bet he's good looking - and has a monster cock to boot."
-Tani Jantsang on her unnamed token porn pal
Kori Houghton
Heh heh. Thanks for the reality check. Perhaps I'm not the only one,
then, who guesses that Zeena might still be hangin' with CoS if her
Daddy had named her his successor.... ToS was the next best thing, as
it included quite a few folks she'd known basically all her life.
Considering the ToS founding document (which I've read, finally),
where else but ToS could Zeena spend her life being so valued for
being *above all else* a child of LaVey?
Kori (who considers claims of "selflessness" also an affront to the
Self)
Kerry Delf
> > Does the Radio Free Setian website intend to warn people away from
> > joining the ToS?
>
> IMO the Radio Free Setian folks seem to care a lot more about losing
> their places within ToS than providing some kind of warning beacon.
No, you read that wrong, though it's possible the site isn't clear enough
about its purpose (no one's really had the time to do anything with it
lately, and I'd have to dig through it again to see if I agree with your
assessment of how it comes across).
At least some of the people involved with Radio Free Setian are or were
pretty incensed at the shoddy treatment we received at the hands of the
ToS hierarchy. But the entire purpose of the RFS site is to provide a
"warning beacon," as you put it, spreading the word to current and
potential members that such injustices do occur, and that there is
something very, very rotten in Denmark. What other purpose would it have?
> It seems there is more to the situation you refer to than what we
> outsiders have heard, if it involves members above the II*. I've been
> thinking about the replies Dr. Aquino made to all of our questions,
> and his point of view seems to be that there is lots more involved
> with being a Priest/ess of Set than, say, management/people skills.
> We're talking about a magic/initiatory group here. There's a lot of
> corporate-type politics on Radio Free Setian, but no metaphysical or
> philosophical conflicts really. (At least Lupo had major
> philosophical differences with ToS as one issue.)
Yup. And the really interesting bit is how on the one hand the ToS says
Priesthood is conveyed by Set and cannot be removed by any Earthly
authority...and then on the other hand here we have Michael Aquino saying,
in essence, that if a Priest does something (or, say, has a friend) that
Aquino and the ToS hierarchy don't like, then s/he is no longer a Priest.
If an expulsion or drumming out was over a political matter -- as with,
for example, Priests Craig Hunt / Mr. Scratch, Walter Radtke and James
Foster -- well, where did their Priesthood go? Does Set go away when Mikey
doesn't like your friends? How about when you give someone a P.O. box
number to send an inquiry to? Or how about when you just piss off the
wrong IV*?
That sure seems to be what Michael Aquino is saying here. And his
statements to that effect call into question all of the Temple's previous
claims about merely "Recognizing" a preexisting status as one of Set's
Priesthood.
(Oh, and as an afterthought...you'd have to ask Lupo to be sure, but I
don't recall him actually having any major philosophical difference with
the Temple at the time of the blowup -- he specifically had a difference
of opinion with Michael Aquino on an extra-Temple matter.)
> Kori
Kerry Delf
> "Kori Houghton" <koriho...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> > IMO the Radio Free Setian folks seem to care a lot more about losing
> > their places within ToS than providing some kind of warning beacon.
>
> I agree; I think they are heart broken. I do not mean that as a
> mockery or something funny. I really think this.
<sigh> Thank goodness you're not trying to make a living as an analyst,
Tani -- you suck at it. (No pun intended.)
Although I can't speak for everyone involved with Radio Free Setian, I can
say that neither Scratch nor myself are even saddened, let alone
"heartbroken," over the end of our involvement with the ToS. Pissed off,
yes. Disgusted, certainly. Heartbroken? Nope.
Actually, even the irritation fades over time, leaving only unemotional
distaste for the direction the Temple is taking and concern for its
present and future members.
Why don't you go back to something you actually know how to do, Tani, like
fucking hard and lying on the beach? Leave analyzing others' emotional
states for those who know what they're talking about.
Toodles,
Dr. Michael A. Aquino
Hash: SHA1
koriho...@hotmail.com (Kori Houghton) wrote:
>Zeena might still be hangin' with CoS if her
>Daddy had named her his successor....
Until she made the decision to resign from it,
Zeena Schreck was the High Priestess in accordance
with its corporate articles, hence was Anton's
legal successor as its CEO. It was the continuing
hypocrisy and hollowness of the "Church" during
her father's later years that became something she
could not continue to support, as she made clear
in her letter of separation to me.
>ToS was the next best thing, as it included quite
>a few folks she'd known basically all her life.
At the time she approached it (the mid-1990s),
Zeena knew none of the Masters of the Temple of
Set except myself; and, with the exception of our
brief encounter for that Geraldo Halloween special,
she and I had had no contact whatever since 1975
(at which time she was still a little child whom I
saw only occasionally during my visits with Anton
and Diane).
Remember that at the time of the 1975 crisis, Zeena
was still too young to be involved in Church of Satan
activities (with the notable exception of her baptism).
>Considering the ToS founding document (which
>I've read, finally), where else but ToS could Zeena
>spend her life being so valued for being *above all
>else* a child of LaVey?
No, the _Book of Coming Forth by Night_, while
paying due tribute to Anton LaVey, carries no
connotations of a LaVey [or Aquino] "dynasty",
and the *organizational* founding documents of
the Temple of Set - its 1975 Articles of Incorporation
& By-Laws - emphasize that it is the legal property
of the Priesthood of Set collectively, to be administered
for the benefit of all Setians.
Zeena was not solicited for the Temple; she contacted
and approached it herself. She was admitted through
the same procedures applicable to any other individual,
as a Setian I*, and her subsequent Recognitions were
also by the Temple's formal procedures - significantly
to the Priesthood and Magistry by Masters who had
not known her at all pre-admission.
I think that's reasonable refutation of your suggestion
of favoritism.
You should consider too that very few Setians think
or care much about the old Church of Satan, save
as a distant historical abstraction. The Temple of
Set is a much larger universe, of vastly greater
sophistication, than its predecessor institution.
I am just about the sole exception, because I was
so centrally involved in the Church and a close
friend of the LaVeys, and because both were such
a strong factor in my early magical and philosophical
education, as recounted in _The Church of Satan_.
So for me personally, yes, it is nice to see Zeena
enjoying, and becoming one of the senior Initiates
of the successor institution to the one her father
and mother created. And I don't see that I, or she,
or the Temple of Set owe any apologies for that.
Michael Aquino
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Dr. Michael A. Aquino
Hash: SHA1
Kerry Delf <k...@efn.org> wrote:
>the really interesting bit is how on the one hand
>the ToS says Priesthood is conveyed by Set and
>cannot be removed by any Earthly authority...
That is correct. However an individual entrusted
with the Priesthood of Set remains a free agent, and
is capable of failing to respect, honor, and exercise
the Priesthood as it deserves. In that case it is a
responsibility of the High Priest of Set to Recognize
that abandonment, and of the Council of Nine to
review and confirm/reject his determination.
>and then on the other hand here we have Michael
>Aquino saying, in essence, that if a Priest does
>something (or, say, has a friend) that Aquino and
>the ToS hierarchy don't like, then s/he is no longer
>a Priest.
As I think is reasonably evident from Delf's remark
here, her comprehension of the Priesthood of Set, and
respect for the Temple institutions that safeguard it,
are conspicuously below the threshold of our actual
consciousness.
>If an expulsion or drumming out was over a political matter
>-- as with, for example, Priests Craig Hunt / Mr. Scratch,
>Walter Radtke and James Foster -- well, where did their
>Priesthood go?
My same observation applies to Delf's ability only to see
these separations only as "political matters". As discussed
here previously, the Hunt and Foster separations were
for ethical/protocol criteria.
Priest Radtke, on the other hand, was not the subject of
any review whatever concerning his Priesthood, but
for reasons of his own decided that it would be best for
him to resign from the Priesthood and the Temple when
he did. He could just as easily have remained a Priest,
or chosen to return to the II* if desired; he remains on
friendly terms with many Setians today.
>Does Set go away when Mikey doesn't like your friends?
Ms. Delf's character once again reveals its true self.
Michael Aquino
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Kerry Delf
> And of course Kerry Delf, as someone who was never a
> member of the Temple of Set, and whose Honorary
> Membership was unanimously rescinded by the Council
> of Nine for her disgrace of it, is perhaps not your most
> reliable and objective source of information concerning
> either the Temple, or specific individuals in it she hates
> for vulgar personal reasons.
Now, that's interesting. You imply here that I "hate [the Schrecks] for
vulgar personal reasons" -- what do you believe those reasons might be?
I'm honestly interested in reading your answer.
> Michael Aquino
People's Commissar
Your problem is that when someone says something objective, you
automatically think I know them - and more, am friends with them. That's
really stupid. It only goes to show what a total and complete suckup you
are, your entire LIFE must be like this. Grow up.
Fyi, the Dire Duo before are nothing to me.
Why do YOU CARE so much about this? Never mind.
"Anonymous" <anon...@anonymous.poster.com> wrote in message
news:MU3W092M3721...@anonymous.poster...
circe
>
> >Does Set go away when Mikey doesn't like your friends?
How many times does someone have to beat it into your head until you finally
see the difference?! Seriously, Lupo is *your* and Scratch's friend, but you
knew he was not a friend to the ToS. How hard is that to figure out? Surely
you had to have known that if you showed up at a conclave, of all things,
and brought along a person that you knew that the ToS considered a security
risk and enemy that this would = not be too bright idea!
People's Commissar
change what I think about it. 12 years Kerry. And you both admit you'd
still be IN the Temple had you not been booted out. You people were never
against it - my gawd girl, you engaged in the royal flame war of the year
with KIDS on here doing cos bidding - all for the tos. come on. You sent
them 8000 "helpful" emails - on your own time, UNPAID work for them. Come
on. That's a lot of emails.
You MISPLACE your feelings by trying to flame me for what Casey and Brendan
TOLD YOU THEY DID. That's not going to do it for you.
Make your own organization - move on. Time's a going.
TJ
"Kerry Delf" <k...@efn.org> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSU.4.21.011125...@garcia.efn.org...
People's Commissar
Walter joined Satanic Reds very enthusiastically - and wanted to join for
very obvious reasons: he agrees with everything on there.
I don't think he left the ToS with anything bitter going on.
Contrary to your website, the stuff Ole has up exposing the cos (think about
what's NOT up there and maybe someone might worry a mite?) - that was
gathered slowly and methodically with the INTENT of doing exactly what it's
doing. ToS is not a scam - do you say it is?
TJ
"Kerry Delf" <k...@efn.org> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSU.4.21.011125...@garcia.efn.org...
People's Commissar
same time? He joined SR because he agreed with everything in there. He has
never, not once, disrespected you in personal convos - and he does NOT bring
anything about any of that up in our group.
If you read carefully, our stance on the Satanic aspect is quite broad.
Set, Lucifer, Mephistopheles, Goddess, Lylyth etc, are fine so long as the
politics agree. We have xeper too, we just don't call it that or make the
LHP specifically necessary in the org. Becoming is part of the Dark
Tradition and always was. And Being. Being and Becoming. Classic LHP.
I don't think that flamer is Foster. If it is, I'd be very disappointed.
At the same time Poison Tongue tried to flame me by jumping into a thread, I
was in Foster's baphemetis group! That is not a Satanic group, btw.
TJ
"Dr. Michael A. Aquino" <xe...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011125043830...@nso-cm.aol.com...
People's Commissar
"Kevin Filan" <mrha...@excite.SPAMBGONE.com> wrote in message
news:OBYL7.3855$Kc2.3...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> "Dr. Michael A. Aquino" <xe...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20011124210611...@nso-cm.aol.com...
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > James "nemthenga" Fos...@my-deja.com
> > (PoisonTongue) wrote:
> Hate to disagree with ya, Doc... but according to the X-Originating IP on
> PoisonTongue's posts, sie hails from New Mexico. Last I checked, Mr.
Foster
> is in the Cincinnati area.
>
> Oh, and speaking of Once and Future High Priestess Zeena Dubin: here's a
> little excerpt from her 1990 letter to Michael Aquino, wherein she
denounces
> her "Unfather."
>
> * * * * *
> Another fact conveniently not included is the common knowledge that as the
> co-director of the Werewolf Order, I have paved a unique path of my own
> inspired by the Western European magical tradition.
A REAL Nazi would see the duo as two Jews trying, once again, to take over
something Aryans created. It doesn't matter if they are not Jews by any
Jewish standards. Nazis would consider them Jews. They truly risk their
lives trying to pal around with real Nazis or "daring" to claim the SS order
Werewolf as their own. Personally? I don't trust them. I never would.
These very European
> magical traditions, which I have always maintained as my own, are of more
> personal importance to me than the largely Eastern and negative
> Judeo-Christian imagery still so boringly peddled by the CoS. In the
desire
> to appeal to the masses, Barton's book makes it glaringly clear that the
> real motive of the Church of Satan is to attract cash from "economic power
> brokers"; what other reason could
> justify the sickeningly repetitive flattery she (he) extends to Zionism,
> Bolshevism, and the state of Israel while safely
> negating any Norse or Teutonic mythology
>
> * * * * *
She refers to Anton's story about helping Zionists out once before.
Bolshevism? nah, not unless Anton noticed a slight resemblence of himself
to Lenin. HA!
>
> Perhaps Dr. Aquino, or some other interested Setian, would enlighten us
all
> as to:
>
> 1) What "economic power brokers" were giving LaVey money so that he would
> promote Zionism, Bolshevism, and the State of Israel.
>
> 2) What aspects of the Church of Satan are pro-Zionist or pro-Bolshevik.
Absolutely none. Amost all the Mags in it are "fascists."
People's Commissar
she declared Anton her unfather and left it TO join the ToS. After he died,
she got on the Larson show and well... pretty bad.
"Kori Houghton" <koriho...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6db9a636.01112...@posting.google.com...
James Foster
> At the same time Poison Tongue tried to flame me by jumping into a thread, I
> was in Foster's baphemetis group! That is not a Satanic group, btw.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, and you're right- it wasn't me.
> > My same observation applies to Delf's ability only to see
> > these separations only as "political matters". As discussed
> > here previously, the Hunt and Foster separations were
> > for ethical/protocol criteria.
Heh, funny how facts get sooo darned blurry. No, Foster resigned, he
wasn't "seperated" for any reason.
However, I hold no illusions that I >wouldn't< have been given the
boot relatively soon, had I not chosen to leave on my own. What with
Don "Ol' Toothless" Webb claiming he "doesn't like" friends of Mr.
Scratch, and judging them accordingly, and Nik "lend me your ear"
Schreck calling me names on the III* mailing list- my time was up.
> > Priest Radtke, on the other hand, was not the subject of
> > any review whatever concerning his Priesthood, but
> > for reasons of his own decided that it would be best for
> > him to resign from the Priesthood and the Temple when
> > he did. He could just as easily have remained a Priest,
> > or chosen to return to the II* if desired; he remains on
> > friendly terms with many Setians today.
As do Craig and I, much to your chagrin.
> > >Does Set go away when Mikey doesn't like your friends?
> >
> > Ms. Delf's character once again reveals its true self.
And Dr. Aquino steadfastly refuses to answer the question. Frankly, I
think it's a very valuable questions to ask. So what about it? Does
Dale Seago still "got Set"? How about Ron Barrett? Mariko? Robinson?
How about those III* and IV* members that continue to send Craig and I
"private" mailings from your organization?
Dr. Michael A. Aquino
Hash: SHA1
pr...@friary.org (James Foster) wrote:
>However, I hold no illusions that I >wouldn't<
>have been given the boot relatively soon, had
>I not chosen to leave on my own. What with
>Don "Ol' Toothless" Webb claiming he "doesn't
>like" friends of Mr. Scratch, and judging them
>accordingly, and Nik "lend me your ear"
>Schreck calling me names on the III* mailing
>list- my time was up.
Well, you can't very well complain about name-
calling if you're doing exactly the same thing here,
can you?
Nevertheless I don't recall Magister Schreck trying
to make fun of your physical features. And as for
Webb's alleged remark, he probably doesn't, particularly
in light of Hunt's constant trumpeting, echoed again
here by yourself, that his friends can be relied upon to
violate private correspondence of the Temple for his
smear campaign.
If you left on your own, then frankly you have no grounds
to blame the Temple of Set for "theoretically" kicking you
out. Reportedly you had been impudent and unresponsive
to a Master of the Temple, and also had been improperly
dictatorial towards junior Setians in your Pylon. Both
would have required correction; neither would necessarily
have meant expulsion.
The news headline of the day: Not every Setian likes
every other Setian. This is an institution whose core is
intense, uncompromised personal self-maximization.
You don't put a bunch of people like that in a room and
get them all to agree to much of anything, least of all
each other!
So yes, you could have continued to be a Priest, presumably
after getting your ears cuffed as appropriate for your
bursts of insolence and Hitleritis, and gone on to be that
much wiser an Initiate for it. And I'm sure there would
continue to have been various Setians who thought
you were a really great guy, and others who would
mutter "There goes that @#$%^ Foster again." So what?
There are perfectly respectable, senior, accomplished,
and distinguished Setians who probably feel the same
about me. We still eat an occasional pizza together.
>Does Dale Seago still "got Set"? How about Ron Barrett?
>Mariko? Robinson?
Actually I've answered the general question about Priests
who reject their own Priesthood already on this newsgroup
a day or so ago, so I'll refer you to that.
Dale Seago did not undergo a personal initiatory failing,
but was tricked into a series of severe unethical actions
by his wife, her lover, and one of the other Masters of
the Temple who aspired to take it over and preserve
the dictatorial atmosphere that Ronald K. Barrett had
unfortunately brought about. By the time Dale realized
how he'd been used, he had burned about 99% of his
bridges. Rather than try to rebuild them, he just decided
to reorient himself elsewhere - first [unsuccessfully] by
trying a love-based initiatory group of his own, then
[successfully] by becoming a professional martial arts
teacher.
Ronald L. Barrett, as Grand Master of the Temple's Order
of the Trapezoid, attempted to incorporate it as a separate
institution in violation of the Temple's corporate By-Laws,
and generally refused to comply with the full-disclosure
investigatory powers of the Council of Nine. He was
allowed to "voluntarily" resign from the Temple and
the Order to avoid conspicuous disgrace of his IV* and
Grand Mastership - which, given his many years of
positive contributions to both the Temple and the Order,
no one wanted to see.
Priestess Mariko Kawaguchi resigned her office via a very
gracious and appreciative letter on Halloween 1998,
giving as the reason her wish "to continue my work
outsite the comforts & confines of an organization".
Magus Robert Robinson also resigned graciously from
the Temple feeling that he had completed his initiatory
Task as the Magus of Essent. He accepted, then after another
year or so retired from an Honorary Setian status
presented to him by Magus Webb. His stated reason for
wishing to make his separation "magically complete"
was that, in his Death-related initiatory explorations,
he felt more of a magical affinity for Osiris than Set.
>How about those III* and IV* members that continue to
>send Craig and I "private" mailings from your
>organization?
I have seen no evidence of that to date. What I *have*
discovered, as the result of seeing III*/IV* mailing list
postings reprinted here on alt.satanism, is that someone
impersonating Magister Pridgen (the Master to whom
you were impudent) and apparently coming from
Cincinnati (not New Mexico) has been using Pridgen's
ID and password to invade our III* and IV* mailing
lists and forward many of their posts. So are there
any Priests or Masters feeding you - or is that just
the impression you would like to create from this
cute little escapade?
Michael Aquino
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GUlLLOTlNA
that if a Priest does something (or, say, has a friend) that Aquino and the ToS
hierarchy don't like, then s/he is no longer a Priest.>>
>As I think is reasonably evident from Delf's remark here, her comprehension of
the Priesthood of Set, and respect for the Temple institutions that safeguard
it, are conspicuously below the threshold of our actual consciousness.>>
Maybe so, but whenever I see (in essence): "These actions are incomprehensible
to you because you are not enlightened/intelligent/evolved/fill in the blank
enough to understand our noble mindset! Of -course- our ways are
incomprehensible to you!'..... when I see that, warning-bells start ringing.
Another one: "Of course this line of action looks illigical to you! If you were
not so dualistic/fill in the blank it would instantly become the very thing to
do, as anyone can see!"
This is a very Rantsangian line of reasoning. And one that has gotten her
kicked from pillar to post on this NG countless times.
>>Does Set go away when Mikey doesn't like your friends?>>
<<Ms. Delf's character once again reveals its true self.>>
Ms. Delf's character has always been plain to see. In a manner devoid of
hyperbole and doublespeak, she has always gotten her point across. The same can
be said for Mr. Scratch.
Whatever the Temple of Set's problems with these two persons, never once have
they resorted to "Well, if you were on the same level we were, our line of
reasoning would become plain to you too," regarding their problems with the ToS
(or anything else for that matter.) Never once. They speak plainly and
logically, listing a chain of events which I have yet to see successfully
debunked. Therefore, attempts to belittle either of them in the fashion seen on
this post simply rebound upon the speaker.
I say this not as a flame but as someone who has been observing this situation
for a while now, and as someone remarkably resistant to doublespeak.
Sincerely:
L.
*********
"I understand your opinion and concern, but "resistance is futile", don't you
agree? I could be wrong, of course..." - John Shaw's take on personal
governmental surveillance
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I have made but one prayer to God, a very short one: ' O Lord, make my enemies
ridiculous.' And God granted it." - Voltaire
Dr. Michael A. Aquino
Hash: SHA1
gulll...@aol.competent (GUlLLOTlNA) wrote:
>whenever I see (in essence): "These actions are
>incomprehensible to you because you are not enlightened/
>intelligent/evolved/fill in the blank enough to understand
>our noble mindset! Of -course- our ways are
>incomprehensible to you!'..... when I see that,
>warning-bells start ringing.
Only if you are one of the knee-jerk egalitarian
spoiled brats who, whenever she encounters anything
she cannot instantly, effortlessly, and conveniently
understand, whines that it is unfair/discriminatory/
Elitist/fill in the blank.
The Temple of Set does not serve its initiatory philosophy,
nor its magical curricula, to anyone with a silver spoon.
These are there to be attained through personal
commitment, study, and application, under the
guidance of more experienced and specialized Initiates
who may well know much more about a particular
field than you do. [These are called Adepts, Priests, and
Masters.] If that bothers you in the least, stay out and
go find an environment that will tell you exactly what
you want to hear about yourself, award you whatever
title you wish, and agree with all your opinions. [You
can start with a mirror and a tape recorder.]
>Another one: "Of course this line of action looks
>illigical to you! If you were not so dualistic/fill in the
>blank it would instantly become the very thing
>to do, as anyone can see!"
Where have you seen the Temple of Set to be hiding
behind a statement such as that? When we make official
decisions, the reasons for them are plainly and directly
stated, as for instance I have done on this newsgroup in
answer to the Hunt/Delf expulsions. You are then at perfect
liberty to agree or not with our reasoning as you wish.
>Whatever the Temple of Set's problems with [Hunt and
>Delf], never once have they resorted to "Well, if you
>were on the same level we were, our line of reasoning
>would become plain to you too," regarding their problems
>with the ToS (or anything else for that matter.)
As their actions at issue were on what we might politely
call the "itch scratching" level, they would scarcely need
to appeal to Higher Thought to excuse them, would they?
>They speak plainly and logically, listing a chain of events
>which I have yet to see successfully debunked. Therefore,
>attempts to belittle either of them in the fashion seen on
>this post simply rebound upon the speaker.
Then most certainly you should choose them as role-models,
and avoid the Temple of Set. While you're at it, you should
killfile Xe...@aol.com to further minimize wasting your
time.
>I say this not as a flame but as someone who has been
>observing this situation for a while now, and as someone
>remarkably resistant to doublespeak.
And I answer you not as a flame either, but as someone
who wishes for you only the most reassuring and comforting
of environments, in which all you need to know is that
Big Brother loves you.
Michael Aquino
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Noantsinyerpants
>> whenever I see (in essence): "These actions are
>> incomprehensible to you because you are not enlightened/
>> intelligent/evolved/fill in the blank enough to understand our
>> noble mindset! Of -course- our ways are incomprehensible
>> to you!'..... when I see that, warning-bells start ringing.
And then "He Who Sees Anteaters In His Living Room" xe...@aol.com (Dr. Michael
A. Aquino) replied snidely,
> Only if you are one of the knee-jerk egalitarian spoiled brats
> who, whenever she encounters anything she cannot instantly,
> effortlessly, and conveniently understand, whines that it is
> unfair/discriminatory/ Elitist/fill in the blank.
What she was saying was that your goofy nonsense got her bullshit detector
going. That hardly makes her a "knee-jerk egalitarian spoiled brat." Rather it
makes her smarter than most of the members of your silly little hobby religion.
Apparently some of your people do wise up eventually, judging from some of the
recent posts here.
> The Temple of Set does not serve its initiatory philosophy, nor
> its magical curricula, to anyone with a silver spoon.
Perhaps because they are a little short on silver, eh?
> These are there to be attained through personal commitment,
> study, and application, under the guidance of more
> experienced and specialized Initiates who may well know
> much more about a particular field than you do. [These are
> called Adepts, Priests, and Masters.]
Oh, yes, yes . . . (makes up and down stroking gesture with hand). You're not
preaching to the choir here, Mike. At least give Lisa credit for having a brain.
She's seen with her own eyes that your "Adepts, Priests, and Masters" aren't
exactly setting (no pun intended) the world on fire. And neither are you, for
that matter.
> If that bothers you in the least, stay out and go find an
> environment that will tell you exactly what you want to hear
> about yourself, award you whatever title you wish, and agree
> with all your opinions.
It's you that's come here to a public forum, Dopey. Unless I'm mistaken, she
isn't beating down the Temple of Set's door for admission.
> [You can start with a mirror and a tape recorder.]
Two of your favorite magical implements for your favorite pastime obviously.
But be careful. Rumor has it that it's bad for the complexion.
> While you're at it, you should killfile Xe...@aol.com to
> further minimize wasting your time.
Here's a thought: why not just avoid posting to alt.satanism yourself? That way
you'd minimize wasting anyone's time. If you've got something to say, go prattle
to the chumps in your mutual masturbation group. No one needs you here.
> And I answer you not as a flame either, but as someone who
> wishes for you only the most reassuring and comforting of
> environments, in which all you need to know is that Big
> Brother loves you.
And I say this not as a flame, but only as someone who wishes to help you avoid
exposing yourself as an asshole . . . again. Now go away.
circe
"Noantsinyerpants" <noa...@noants.com> wrote in message
news:DWfM7.37219$xS6....@www.newsranger.com...
> gulll...@aol.competent (GUlLLOTlNA) wrote:
>
> >> whenever I see (in essence): "These actions are
> >> incomprehensible to you because you are not enlightened/
> >> intelligent/evolved/fill in the blank enough to understand our
> >> noble mindset! Of -course- our ways are incomprehensible
> >> to you!'..... when I see that, warning-bells start ringing.
>
> And then "He Who Sees Anteaters In His Living Room" xe...@aol.com (Dr.
Michael
> A. Aquino) replied snidely,
>
> > Only if you are one of the knee-jerk egalitarian spoiled brats
> > who, whenever she encounters anything she cannot instantly,
> > effortlessly, and conveniently understand, whines that it is
> > unfair/discriminatory/ Elitist/fill in the blank.
>
> What she was saying was that your goofy nonsense got her bullshit detector
> going. That hardly makes her a "knee-jerk egalitarian spoiled brat."
Rather it
> makes her smarter than most of the members of your silly little hobby
religion.
> Apparently some of your people do wise up eventually, judging from some of
the
> recent posts here.
>
He wasn't talking about Lisa.